i dont know anyone that uses XFire. so you have their numbers then you have the rest of the subscribers to think about as well. and it seems WAR did their server merges a lot quikcer than AoC did. i myself left AoC several months ago..but from what i hear and read on the forums of all the updates, new content added etc. AoC is getting new subscriptions to the game and some former gamers are coming back to it. i myself will most likely be coming back to it as well..not sure when but probably soon.
even after underlining it for you, you still cant see it, come on dude, be seriouse for a moment, it clearly says "shrinking user base" and if you are looking for a joint declaration by both "mythic and EA" saying :"we are loosing subs ! we are freaking out" then i dont have that.
Yeah you will be surprised now catch a chair you should better get your family to you and call a ambulance ready?Prepared for big truth of your moment of the life?!
The thing you read on internet just made by a opinion is not necessarily truth as long it isn't official it's not real!
If you read a Shrinking user base on a random website without EA-Mythic statement you are just making opinions not facts so it is worthless like if i would say now the Age of conan have lost 95 percent subscribers this is not a fact just a opinion standing alone worthless like a piece of funcom customer service got it there?
This time you should read this 10 times and ask your grandfather if friends failed
yes, i totaly can see the light now,
you are right, all those specialised web mags are AoC fan boys making up hate lies about WaR.
yes, i totaly can see the light now, you are right, all those specialised web mags are AoC fan boys making up hate lies about WaR.
Hey what you are talking about?I never said anything like that.Anyway I'm not sure what are you trying to say by saying someone hates WAR do this means subscriber numbers are dropping?Oh no call spider-pig its MMORPG world crisis every MMORPG in world is bleeding right now by your theory!
yes, i totaly can see the light now, you are right, all those specialised web mags are AoC fan boys making up hate lies about WaR.
Hey what you are talking about?I never said anything like that.Anyway I'm not sure what are you trying to say by saying someone hates WAR do this means subscriber numbers are dropping?Oh no call spider-pig its MMORPG world crisis every MMORPG in world is bleeding right now by your theory!
Seriously if grandfather failed I'm out of ideas!
nop, i didnt say anything and i dont have any theory.
i only posted stuff from the internet, you dont believe that stuff so its your problem not mine.
and aparently, you are not only having problems understanding what im trying to say, you couldnt find stuff on the internet for your own, you couldnt read stuff that i posted from the internet and you couldnt even make sense of stuff the i underlined for you from the internet, and you are still not sure what im trying to say? is there anything youre sure of besides "AoC sux"?
I see alot of people saying that xfire is not a reliable source and I am not sure why. Sure there is a margin of error but there is no reason to think that the margin of error would be greater or less for WAR or AoC unless there is a specific reasons for either of these games to be more compatible with xfire and to my knowledge there isnt. So unless someone can come up with a valid reason for xfire not being reliable enough to make some kind of rough estimates I see xfire as being perfectly viable for doing that. And if the numbers show that there are 3x as many WAR players as AoC then it would not be a leap to draw the conclusion that more people are playing WAR than AoC.
The reason why people are questioning Xfire as a good source of data, especially when it comes to very different MMORPGs, clearly catering different target audiences, is the fact that Xfire itself is catering some target audience that is a rather non-described subset of the overall community.
One of the core figures when it comes to halfways reliable statsitics is the validity index (forgive me if I'm using an incorrect english term here). This index is a hgihly standardized figure, trying to describe how reliable a statistic is, based on various variables. One core variable is an estimate as to how representative the probe is for the overall population, and that's something that is totally unknow when it comes to XFire. In our example, regarding how different the overall appraoch of both games really is, it's safe to say they clearly do have different audiences to a large extent.
That in mind, it's also safe to say there is significant implication these differrent audiences are having a high likelyhood of showing differing rates of adoption for XFire as well, making any statistic based on it show some tremedously low validity.
I hope this comes out somewhat clear. It's a bit hard to get together in a foreign language. Statistics and empirical social science were a significant part of my university studies and I can assure you that those Xfire figures bear a bandwidth of likelyhood of accuracy that is beyond reasoning
The real question your posing is what is the target audience of Xfire. For instance, I am an Xfire user. I'm 25 and I'm an average gamer. I don't log into Xfire everytime I play something, and I subscribe to a new MMO or resub to an old MMO at least 3 times yearly for about the span of 2-6 months.
Now not all Xfire users are like me, but being an Xfire user, I can tell you that the people I've met through Xfire and in-game that use Xfire are all around the board. You can meet a 13 year old kid one day and then a hardcore 30 year old the next.
The usage of Xfire differs with about the same average population of the games it represents. Xfire numbers may be 100 to 1 representations (just throwing numbers around now) meaning you would find 1 thirteen year old that uses it when there could be 100 in game, but the likelihood that game A is bound to have more Xfire users then game B , yet the game population is not conducent of such isn't plausible.
For instance, you say the age difference may cause AoC to not show as high of numbers, but then again it could also show a greater overall population in WAR due to no age restriction.
Also, take into account other game ranks. WoW has the highest ranking, with CoD and CSS and BF2 behind it. These are games with a definitive high number of players.
Long story short - Xfire does show a general statistical population correlation and can be used to determine game population on average.
nop, i didnt say anything and i dont have any theory.
i only posted stuff from the internet, you dont believe that stuff so its your problem not mine. and aparently, you are not only having problems understanding what im trying to say, you couldnt find stuff on the internet for your own, you couldnt read stuff that i posted from the internet and you couldnt even make sense of stuff the i underlined for you from the internet, and you are still not sure what im trying to say? is there anything youre sure of besides "AoC sux"?
Well you have problem reading what did i say i explained every thing you underlined so you failed to understand and read what i did said and you should really better tell me what is not clear than its not clear because if you dont its worthless again like most of things you are saying
And yeah if you cant post me after like 5 posts where i clearly see Warhammer bleeding and not server mergers or Age of conan gaining subscribers and then clear nothing.Well I'm pretty sure there is clear why i cant understand what you are saying.
is there anything sure of besides "AoC sux" Oh and making things yet again?Where o my i said this that AoC sux?I want to see it now with Age of conan Subscribtions increase and with warhammer bleeding with statement from Mythic/EA and FunCom if not there no way to prove you're right then OP cant be making mistake/lying and there is no point continue with this discussion.
While i would never use the rubbish xfire to judge on subscriptions, i would say both games have failed!
Lets get a few things straight, gaming company's dont invest millions and 4/5 years to be a niche game for a few 100,000 players, unless eve or free to play.
Conan and War were chasing some of blizzards 11 million apple pie and came away with a few crumbs so yep i would say both have failed.
Playing: FFXIV Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
I just recently returned to AoC my self and i am loving it happy i did. Its amazing seeing how many people u see in Global "Hello AoC its been (insert amount of time not played here) since i left whats the best class to play now" of some form or another. So to say AoC is bleeding subs is ignorant. Just login and see it for urself. Shit ill eeven take a SS of em.
nop, i didnt say anything and i dont have any theory.
i only posted stuff from the internet, you dont believe that stuff so its your problem not mine. and aparently, you are not only having problems understanding what im trying to say, you couldnt find stuff on the internet for your own, you couldnt read stuff that i posted from the internet and you couldnt even make sense of stuff the i underlined for you from the internet, and you are still not sure what im trying to say? is there anything youre sure of besides "AoC sux"?
Well you have problem reading what did i say i explained every thing you underlined so you failed to understand and read what i did said and you should really better tell me what is not clear than its not clear because if you dont its worthless again like most of things you are saying
And yeah if you cant post me after like 5 posts where i clearly see Warhammer bleeding and not server mergers or Age of conan gaining subscribers and then clear nothing.Well I'm pretty sure there is clear why i cant understand what you are saying.
is there anything sure of besides "AoC sux" Oh and making things yet again?Where o my i said this that AoC sux?I want to see it now with Age of conan Subscribtions increase and with warhammer bleeding with statement from Mythic/EA and FunCom if not there no way to prove you're right then OP cant be making mistake/lying and there is no point continue with this discussion.
so every time im gonna say something your just gonna repeat it back? ok np
"AoC sux" is not really a sentence, it kind of an attitude developed by a few people who either:
- cant run AoC because they have a useless PC and blame it on everybody else
-cant afford $19 / month for pleasure or are too greedy to do so
-ex Fancom employees, who actually released AoC full of bugs, got fired and now looking for revenge.
-WxW fanboys who feel the urge to demote any other MMO on the market as soon as they think its a threat to their little bubble.
-power levelers who hate the anti power leveling nature of AoC preventing them from making any money
all others, who sincerly didnt like AoC will state a logical and specific reason why they didnt like it, it could be as simple as: "its not my type of mmo" and they will never give stupid reasons like: "AoC failed at launch" , "AoC have less subs than WoW" and "Funcom's CFO resigned"...
your turn, you can go ahead and repeat what i just said.
with 3,942 Xfire users playing per day Age of Conan#42
with 1,333 Xfire users playing per day
So according to Xfire, WAR has 3 times more subs than AoC. That's a lot. Also it seems like WAR is slowly gaining population while AoC is staying the same, although after DX10 and trials we might see an increase in AoC population. I think it's safe to say that WAR has been a moderate success so far while Age of Conan has failed. What do you think?
No. The only thing sure is that 3 times more of the X-fire users play WAR than AoC.
With the same stitistics you could say that WAR is 20 times as big as EQ2 and that Guildwars is a few times bigger than WAR.
You could maybe use X-fire to see how a game is doing on a month to month basic but even that is doubtful, both because there are other programs that do the same thing better like Ventrilo and also because a Voice over is better in a game like Guildwars than EQ2.
AoC is BTW slowly rising while WAR is slowly falling but that doesn't prove anything either.
I believe WAR at the moment have some more players than AoC but I doubt it is 3 times as many, maybe double as most. But X-fire alone is not worth much and anyways which game that failed most will be determined when both are closed down and you count how much money the companies made of them. Could still be any of them.
To base anything on XFire numbers in bound to be incorrect. XFire is useless as a statistical tool due to it being biased. How many adults do you think run this thing vs how many kids/teens run it? How many powergamers compared to casuals? WAR is more of a teen game while AoC is/was focused on the mature crowd. XFire is, and will always be useless. Only good thing with XFire is to keep a tab on your own playtime. Everything else is guesstimates. The XFire discussion been beat to death multiple times around here anyway. Let this dead horse rest in peace already.
Besides, neither game have failed, they only had unrealistic goals when it came to subscriber numbers. If they fail, they close them down and I haven't seen that happen with either of them. Just trolls/fanboys duking it out as usual. Even the op is a troll of sorts, dualtrolling both games heh...
X-fire is an indication on the server population and subscription numbers ratio. It should not be viewed as the only truth, but also not be completely ignored.
Both Warhammer and AoC was a failure. But AoC really messed up big time, even when FC had beta testers telling them what would go wrong. FC decided to not listen.. the history repeats itself for FC.
It is sad that MMO companies does not even know what it takes to make a successful MMO in these times. There are a few people who knows, and can point in the right direction.. However arrogance took over in the Funcom headquarter.
Without reading everything in between this is my take on that topic line alone..
Mythic with DAoC had a relatively huge hit as far as a RvR based game goes. Even I loved DAoC for years...
Funcom with AO... even people who never played AO talk about the crap launch and etc as if they were there.
So both companies release a new MMO... they both have similar opening sales... opening subscriber numbers... and probably end up with similar amounts of subs at the end.
The point if you want to pretend there is one... Is that one company had succeeded previously and another had "epic fail".
Now if they both end up with pretty much the same result with a new game.. isn't the "epic fail" company actually doing better?
I mean in some form of logic... you expected AoC to fail just as much as AO had. Yet instead it fails just as much as WAR did...
So I guess these posts confuse me for a few reasons:
1) Pretty much what I stated... Funcom failing = expected... WAR being crap not so much.
2) Why does it matter? I don't own Funcom stock.. I don't own EA stock. As a game player I would want them BOTH to succeed... even if I don't play either. Successful games encourage people to invest in games being developed.. which actually eventually leads to people doing different things instead of clones.
Why are you so caught up in want one to fail more? To make investors not want to invest and games to become more of a clone factory than they are already.
so every time im gonna say something your just gonna repeat it back? ok np
Well i still wait for asnwers but you didnt brought any and as i said what's point of this thats question of your post!
"AoC sux" is not really a sentence, it kind of an attitude developed by a few people who either:
sweet and this includes me or why you are telling me this?!
-cant run AoC because they have a useless PC and blame it on everybody else
what do it have to do with me age of conan subscribtion growth and warhammer bleeding?
-cant afford $19 / month for pleasure or are too greedy to do so
what do it have to do with me age of conan subscribtion growth and warhammer bleeding?
-ex Fancom employees, who actually released AoC full of bugs, got fired and now looking for revenge.
what do it have to do with me age of conan subscribtion growth and warhammer bleeding?
-WxW fanboys who feel the urge to demote any other MMO on the market as soon as they think its a threat to their little bubble.
what do it have to do with me age of conan subscribtion growth and warhammer bleeding?
-power levelers who hate the anti power leveling nature of AoC preventing them from making any money
what do it have to do with me age of conan subscribtion growth and warhammer bleeding?
all others, who sincerly didnt like AoC will state a logical and specific reason why they didnt like it, it could be as simple as: "its not my type of mmo" and they will never give stupid reasons like: "AoC failed at launch" , "AoC have less subs than WoW" and "Funcom's CFO resigned"...
what do it have to do with me age of conan subscribtion growth and warhammer bleeding?
your turn, you can go ahead and repeat what i just said.
I'm actually thinking about giving WAR another shot. My friend went back there and he said it's improved a lot.
I don't think I will bother with Age of Conan anymore. Once my beta time runs out, I'll stop giving them money.
AoC had a lot of potential but somehow Funcom failed. The game will never be as big as everyone hoped and I for one don't want to play some 75k niche game with small zones and instances. I want big epic battles that WAR hopefully can deliver.
your turn, you can go ahead and repeat what i just said.
Your turn !
honestly, you convinced me that you are special, i dont know what you want me to tel you, you dont trust me, you dont trust online sites, and you are obsessed that "AoC sux" and you clearly cant be even a little bit creative.
unfortunately, this is not a forum for kids with "special needs".
and keeping posting stuff like this will cause this thread to be claused because this would be considered as thread hijacking.
I see alot of people saying that xfire is not a reliable source and I am not sure why. Sure there is a margin of error but there is no reason to think that the margin of error would be greater or less for WAR or AoC unless there is a specific reasons for either of these games to be more compatible with xfire and to my knowledge there isnt. So unless someone can come up with a valid reason for xfire not being reliable enough to make some kind of rough estimates I see xfire as being perfectly viable for doing that. And if the numbers show that there are 3x as many WAR players as AoC then it would not be a leap to draw the conclusion that more people are playing WAR than AoC.
The reason why people are questioning Xfire as a good source of data, especially when it comes to very different MMORPGs, clearly catering different target audiences, is the fact that Xfire itself is catering some target audience that is a rather non-described subset of the overall community.
One of the core figures when it comes to halfways reliable statsitics is the validity index (forgive me if I'm using an incorrect english term here). This index is a hgihly standardized figure, trying to describe how reliable a statistic is, based on various variables. One core variable is an estimate as to how representative the probe is for the overall population, and that's something that is totally unknow when it comes to XFire. In our example, regarding how different the overall appraoch of both games really is, it's safe to say they clearly do have different audiences to a large extent.
That in mind, it's also safe to say there is significant implication these differrent audiences are having a high likelyhood of showing differing rates of adoption for XFire as well, making any statistic based on it show some tremedously low validity.
I hope this comes out somewhat clear. It's a bit hard to get together in a foreign language. Statistics and empirical social science were a significant part of my university studies and I can assure you that those Xfire figures bear a bandwidth of likelyhood of accuracy that is beyond reasoning
Long story short - Xfire does show a general statistical population correlation and can be used to determine game population on average.
You are right - Xfire can show trends. However, the OP's major statistical fallacy us that he took one look at the data and drew conclusions from it. To be statistically significant, you would have to look at the data a lot and on a constant and consistent basis.
The other major issue is that there are way too many variables out there to draw any major conclusions from the data. Sure, both WAR and AOC are having population issues. We do not need X-fire or any data to prove that. The problem with looking at X-fire stats in a limited time frame is that too many things could happen to explain a decrease or increase in the playerbase.
Part of the problem is we don't know how many Xfire players were in AoC as compared to WAR. You cannot compare two different and undocumented data pools and draw conclusions let alone compare them.
Far as I remember you would have to have a definition of each pool.. aka how many people there were. Then you could compare relatively how many people stayed/left or came back to both games. Even if the Xfire user size was different you could have a relative percentage.
In the end it would still be just that.. Xfire users.
So then the question is.. if you took all the people who don't use Xfire from both games how do they compare.
For example if you take the OP and the premise made based on Xfire.
What if non Xfire users (who are a much larger data size) show the exact opposite...
That's the problem with these things and honestly.. why would any game player want one to fail more than the other.
Suggests motive... or agenda. Neither of which fit a "game player".
honestly, you convinced me that you are special, i dont know what you want me to tel you, you dont trust me, you dont trust online sites, and you are obsessed that "AoC sux" and you clearly cant be even a little bit creative. unfortunately, this is not a forum for kids with "special needs". and keeping posting stuff like this will cause this thread to be claused because this would be considered as thread hijacking. so, never mind whatever i told you plz.
I dont trust you?All the point of this discussion is I want a real proof that saying the OP is mistaken/lying because you are saying AoC is growing and Warhammer bleeding.
I dont trust online sites?Who says that? I say if you want say such things like someone is lying you must have a real proof like statement from EA/Mythic or FunCom you didnt answered me any of those all you did showed me Warhammer merges servers and no sign where it says Age of conan is growing in subscribtions or warhammer is bleeding so i can only assume you is the one who is lying here.
Oh I'm obsessed with AoC sux well thats great where did you found out this time.
Seriously until you tell me a official statement that WAR is bleeding and AoC is growing there is no point posting again yet you do and blame for beign special... what a irony indeed eh?
So to summarize it until you answer my questions in case you forgotten them let me quote you "WaR is bleeding subs, while AoC is gaining subs" that you can support by a official statement not just some website that just said how they think things are do not simply respond this and keep it so okay?
There is no doubt AOC is still losing customers. Funcom already said that revenues will be down 25% this quarter compared to last. Seeing as AOC is by far the biggest source of AOC revenues, it's pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together.
My guess is they are never going to do the free trial. It will cost a huge amount to pay for the bandwidth. It's like Dx10, they have basically stopped working on that since they know it won't make a difference for subscriber numbers. There goal now is to keep the players they have until they launch their next MMORPG.
As far as Warhammer.. Mythic gave numbers as of Dec 31st.. and they were significantly lower than the numbers they gave for October. Given the fact that there was a drastic decrease between october and december (given by mythic), there is no reason to believe that Warhammers numbers magically stabilized on Dec 31st. The Jan 31st 'announcement' was not met well by players who were expecting a lot more from the upcoming expansion.
having played both recently(currently playing war) i would say war is doing pretty well. seems to me they screwed themselves early on with the insane amount of servers they had but now they have consolidated most of em and the pop seems great.
There is no doubt AOC is still losing customers. Funcom already said that revenues will be down 25% this quarter compared to last. Seeing as AOC is by far the biggest source of AOC revenues, it's pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together. My guess is they are never going to do the free trial. It will cost a huge amount to pay for the bandwidth. It's like Dx10, they have basically stopped working on that since they know it won't make a difference for subscriber numbers. There goal now is to keep the players they have until they launch their next MMORPG. As far as Warhammer.. Mythic gave numbers as of Dec 31st.. and they were significantly lower than the numbers they gave for October. Given the fact that there was a drastic decrease between october and december (given by mythic), there is no reason to believe that Warhammers numbers magically stabilized on Dec 31st. The Jan 31st 'announcement' was not met well by players who were expecting a lot more from the upcoming expansion.
actualy your info on aoc is wrong. they still doing the dx10 and the number of players is steady to slight increase as they add more content they also have a expansion planned. since that new director for the game took over it has improved alot.
I don't think you can say about any MMO whether it has failed or not until population numbers have remained consistent for years. When MMOs no longer get any new players coming in.
Plenty of MMOs have turnarounds. Relatively, for an MMO, both WAR and AoC are still in their infancy - though the latter doesn't seem all that safe from an early childhood death. WAR, at least, seems very likely to stay around for some time to come.
Comments
i dont know anyone that uses XFire. so you have their numbers then you have the rest of the subscribers to think about as well. and it seems WAR did their server merges a lot quikcer than AoC did. i myself left AoC several months ago..but from what i hear and read on the forums of all the updates, new content added etc. AoC is getting new subscriptions to the game and some former gamers are coming back to it. i myself will most likely be coming back to it as well..not sure when but probably soon.
Yeah you will be surprised now catch a chair you should better get your family to you and call a ambulance ready?Prepared for big truth of your moment of the life?!
The thing you read on internet just made by a opinion is not necessarily truth as long it isn't official it's not real!
If you read a Shrinking user base on a random website without EA-Mythic statement you are just making opinions not facts so it is worthless like if i would say now the Age of conan have lost 95 percent subscribers this is not a fact just a opinion standing alone worthless like a piece of funcom customer service got it there?
This time you should read this 10 times and ask your grandfather if friends failed
yes, i totaly can see the light now,
you are right, all those specialised web mags are AoC fan boys making up hate lies about WaR.
Hey what you are talking about?I never said anything like that.Anyway I'm not sure what are you trying to say by saying someone hates WAR do this means subscriber numbers are dropping?Oh no call spider-pig its MMORPG world crisis every MMORPG in world is bleeding right now by your theory!
Seriously if grandfather failed I'm out of ideas!
Hey what you are talking about?I never said anything like that.Anyway I'm not sure what are you trying to say by saying someone hates WAR do this means subscriber numbers are dropping?Oh no call spider-pig its MMORPG world crisis every MMORPG in world is bleeding right now by your theory!
Seriously if grandfather failed I'm out of ideas!
nop, i didnt say anything and i dont have any theory.
i only posted stuff from the internet, you dont believe that stuff so its your problem not mine.
and aparently, you are not only having problems understanding what im trying to say, you couldnt find stuff on the internet for your own, you couldnt read stuff that i posted from the internet and you couldnt even make sense of stuff the i underlined for you from the internet, and you are still not sure what im trying to say? is there anything youre sure of besides "AoC sux"?
The reason why people are questioning Xfire as a good source of data, especially when it comes to very different MMORPGs, clearly catering different target audiences, is the fact that Xfire itself is catering some target audience that is a rather non-described subset of the overall community.
One of the core figures when it comes to halfways reliable statsitics is the validity index (forgive me if I'm using an incorrect english term here). This index is a hgihly standardized figure, trying to describe how reliable a statistic is, based on various variables. One core variable is an estimate as to how representative the probe is for the overall population, and that's something that is totally unknow when it comes to XFire. In our example, regarding how different the overall appraoch of both games really is, it's safe to say they clearly do have different audiences to a large extent.
That in mind, it's also safe to say there is significant implication these differrent audiences are having a high likelyhood of showing differing rates of adoption for XFire as well, making any statistic based on it show some tremedously low validity.
I hope this comes out somewhat clear. It's a bit hard to get together in a foreign language. Statistics and empirical social science were a significant part of my university studies and I can assure you that those Xfire figures bear a bandwidth of likelyhood of accuracy that is beyond reasoning
The real question your posing is what is the target audience of Xfire. For instance, I am an Xfire user. I'm 25 and I'm an average gamer. I don't log into Xfire everytime I play something, and I subscribe to a new MMO or resub to an old MMO at least 3 times yearly for about the span of 2-6 months.
Now not all Xfire users are like me, but being an Xfire user, I can tell you that the people I've met through Xfire and in-game that use Xfire are all around the board. You can meet a 13 year old kid one day and then a hardcore 30 year old the next.
The usage of Xfire differs with about the same average population of the games it represents. Xfire numbers may be 100 to 1 representations (just throwing numbers around now) meaning you would find 1 thirteen year old that uses it when there could be 100 in game, but the likelihood that game A is bound to have more Xfire users then game B , yet the game population is not conducent of such isn't plausible.
For instance, you say the age difference may cause AoC to not show as high of numbers, but then again it could also show a greater overall population in WAR due to no age restriction.
Also, take into account other game ranks. WoW has the highest ranking, with CoD and CSS and BF2 behind it. These are games with a definitive high number of players.
Long story short - Xfire does show a general statistical population correlation and can be used to determine game population on average.
Well you have problem reading what did i say i explained every thing you underlined so you failed to understand and read what i did said and you should really better tell me what is not clear than its not clear because if you dont its worthless again like most of things you are saying
And yeah if you cant post me after like 5 posts where i clearly see Warhammer bleeding and not server mergers or Age of conan gaining subscribers and then clear nothing.Well I'm pretty sure there is clear why i cant understand what you are saying.
is there anything sure of besides "AoC sux" Oh and making things yet again?Where o my i said this that AoC sux?I want to see it now with Age of conan Subscribtions increase and with warhammer bleeding with statement from Mythic/EA and FunCom if not there no way to prove you're right then OP cant be making mistake/lying and there is no point continue with this discussion.
While i would never use the rubbish xfire to judge on subscriptions, i would say both games have failed!
Lets get a few things straight, gaming company's dont invest millions and 4/5 years to be a niche game for a few 100,000 players, unless eve or free to play.
Conan and War were chasing some of blizzards 11 million apple pie and came away with a few crumbs so yep i would say both have failed.
Playing: FFXIV
Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic
Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Interesting Fact - I own 27 Tarantula's
C'mon guys, please, go and login into your favorite game and play them. I'm sure WAR and AOC will benefit from the increased numbers.
But if you do, don't come here to complain that mmorpg.com is bleeding users.
I just recently returned to AoC my self and i am loving it happy i did. Its amazing seeing how many people u see in Global "Hello AoC its been (insert amount of time not played here) since i left whats the best class to play now" of some form or another. So to say AoC is bleeding subs is ignorant. Just login and see it for urself. Shit ill eeven take a SS of em.
Darkfalls so revolutionary it uninstalls itself.
Well you have problem reading what did i say i explained every thing you underlined so you failed to understand and read what i did said and you should really better tell me what is not clear than its not clear because if you dont its worthless again like most of things you are saying
And yeah if you cant post me after like 5 posts where i clearly see Warhammer bleeding and not server mergers or Age of conan gaining subscribers and then clear nothing.Well I'm pretty sure there is clear why i cant understand what you are saying.
is there anything sure of besides "AoC sux" Oh and making things yet again?Where o my i said this that AoC sux?I want to see it now with Age of conan Subscribtions increase and with warhammer bleeding with statement from Mythic/EA and FunCom if not there no way to prove you're right then OP cant be making mistake/lying and there is no point continue with this discussion.
so every time im gonna say something your just gonna repeat it back? ok np
"AoC sux" is not really a sentence, it kind of an attitude developed by a few people who either:
- cant run AoC because they have a useless PC and blame it on everybody else
-cant afford $19 / month for pleasure or are too greedy to do so
-ex Fancom employees, who actually released AoC full of bugs, got fired and now looking for revenge.
-WxW fanboys who feel the urge to demote any other MMO on the market as soon as they think its a threat to their little bubble.
-power levelers who hate the anti power leveling nature of AoC preventing them from making any money
all others, who sincerly didnt like AoC will state a logical and specific reason why they didnt like it, it could be as simple as: "its not my type of mmo" and they will never give stupid reasons like: "AoC failed at launch" , "AoC have less subs than WoW" and "Funcom's CFO resigned"...
your turn, you can go ahead and repeat what i just said.
No. The only thing sure is that 3 times more of the X-fire users play WAR than AoC.
With the same stitistics you could say that WAR is 20 times as big as EQ2 and that Guildwars is a few times bigger than WAR.
You could maybe use X-fire to see how a game is doing on a month to month basic but even that is doubtful, both because there are other programs that do the same thing better like Ventrilo and also because a Voice over is better in a game like Guildwars than EQ2.
AoC is BTW slowly rising while WAR is slowly falling but that doesn't prove anything either.
I believe WAR at the moment have some more players than AoC but I doubt it is 3 times as many, maybe double as most. But X-fire alone is not worth much and anyways which game that failed most will be determined when both are closed down and you count how much money the companies made of them. Could still be any of them.
To base anything on XFire numbers in bound to be incorrect. XFire is useless as a statistical tool due to it being biased. How many adults do you think run this thing vs how many kids/teens run it? How many powergamers compared to casuals? WAR is more of a teen game while AoC is/was focused on the mature crowd. XFire is, and will always be useless. Only good thing with XFire is to keep a tab on your own playtime. Everything else is guesstimates. The XFire discussion been beat to death multiple times around here anyway. Let this dead horse rest in peace already.
Besides, neither game have failed, they only had unrealistic goals when it came to subscriber numbers. If they fail, they close them down and I haven't seen that happen with either of them. Just trolls/fanboys duking it out as usual. Even the op is a troll of sorts, dualtrolling both games heh...
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
X-fire is an indication on the server population and subscription numbers ratio. It should not be viewed as the only truth, but also not be completely ignored.
Both Warhammer and AoC was a failure. But AoC really messed up big time, even when FC had beta testers telling them what would go wrong. FC decided to not listen.. the history repeats itself for FC.
It is sad that MMO companies does not even know what it takes to make a successful MMO in these times. There are a few people who knows, and can point in the right direction.. However arrogance took over in the Funcom headquarter.
Without reading everything in between this is my take on that topic line alone..
Mythic with DAoC had a relatively huge hit as far as a RvR based game goes. Even I loved DAoC for years...
Funcom with AO... even people who never played AO talk about the crap launch and etc as if they were there.
So both companies release a new MMO... they both have similar opening sales... opening subscriber numbers... and probably end up with similar amounts of subs at the end.
The point if you want to pretend there is one... Is that one company had succeeded previously and another had "epic fail".
Now if they both end up with pretty much the same result with a new game.. isn't the "epic fail" company actually doing better?
I mean in some form of logic... you expected AoC to fail just as much as AO had. Yet instead it fails just as much as WAR did...
So I guess these posts confuse me for a few reasons:
1) Pretty much what I stated... Funcom failing = expected... WAR being crap not so much.
2) Why does it matter? I don't own Funcom stock.. I don't own EA stock. As a game player I would want them BOTH to succeed... even if I don't play either. Successful games encourage people to invest in games being developed.. which actually eventually leads to people doing different things instead of clones.
Why are you so caught up in want one to fail more? To make investors not want to invest and games to become more of a clone factory than they are already.
I'm actually thinking about giving WAR another shot. My friend went back there and he said it's improved a lot.
I don't think I will bother with Age of Conan anymore. Once my beta time runs out, I'll stop giving them money.
AoC had a lot of potential but somehow Funcom failed. The game will never be as big as everyone hoped and I for one don't want to play some 75k niche game with small zones and instances. I want big epic battles that WAR hopefully can deliver.
Your turn !honestly, you convinced me that you are special, i dont know what you want me to tel you, you dont trust me, you dont trust online sites, and you are obsessed that "AoC sux" and you clearly cant be even a little bit creative.
unfortunately, this is not a forum for kids with "special needs".
and keeping posting stuff like this will cause this thread to be claused because this would be considered as thread hijacking.
so, never mind whatever i told you plz.
Never played WAR so i dont know which sucked the most but for AOC..........pretty sucky
The reason why people are questioning Xfire as a good source of data, especially when it comes to very different MMORPGs, clearly catering different target audiences, is the fact that Xfire itself is catering some target audience that is a rather non-described subset of the overall community.
One of the core figures when it comes to halfways reliable statsitics is the validity index (forgive me if I'm using an incorrect english term here). This index is a hgihly standardized figure, trying to describe how reliable a statistic is, based on various variables. One core variable is an estimate as to how representative the probe is for the overall population, and that's something that is totally unknow when it comes to XFire. In our example, regarding how different the overall appraoch of both games really is, it's safe to say they clearly do have different audiences to a large extent.
That in mind, it's also safe to say there is significant implication these differrent audiences are having a high likelyhood of showing differing rates of adoption for XFire as well, making any statistic based on it show some tremedously low validity.
I hope this comes out somewhat clear. It's a bit hard to get together in a foreign language. Statistics and empirical social science were a significant part of my university studies and I can assure you that those Xfire figures bear a bandwidth of likelyhood of accuracy that is beyond reasoning
Long story short - Xfire does show a general statistical population correlation and can be used to determine game population on average.
You are right - Xfire can show trends. However, the OP's major statistical fallacy us that he took one look at the data and drew conclusions from it. To be statistically significant, you would have to look at the data a lot and on a constant and consistent basis.
The other major issue is that there are way too many variables out there to draw any major conclusions from the data. Sure, both WAR and AOC are having population issues. We do not need X-fire or any data to prove that. The problem with looking at X-fire stats in a limited time frame is that too many things could happen to explain a decrease or increase in the playerbase.
Part of the problem is we don't know how many Xfire players were in AoC as compared to WAR. You cannot compare two different and undocumented data pools and draw conclusions let alone compare them.
Far as I remember you would have to have a definition of each pool.. aka how many people there were. Then you could compare relatively how many people stayed/left or came back to both games. Even if the Xfire user size was different you could have a relative percentage.
In the end it would still be just that.. Xfire users.
So then the question is.. if you took all the people who don't use Xfire from both games how do they compare.
For example if you take the OP and the premise made based on Xfire.
What if non Xfire users (who are a much larger data size) show the exact opposite...
That's the problem with these things and honestly.. why would any game player want one to fail more than the other.
Suggests motive... or agenda. Neither of which fit a "game player".
I dont trust you?All the point of this discussion is I want a real proof that saying the OP is mistaken/lying because you are saying AoC is growing and Warhammer bleeding.
I dont trust online sites?Who says that? I say if you want say such things like someone is lying you must have a real proof like statement from EA/Mythic or FunCom you didnt answered me any of those all you did showed me Warhammer merges servers and no sign where it says Age of conan is growing in subscribtions or warhammer is bleeding so i can only assume you is the one who is lying here.
Oh I'm obsessed with AoC sux well thats great where did you found out this time.
Seriously until you tell me a official statement that WAR is bleeding and AoC is growing there is no point posting again yet you do and blame for beign special... what a irony indeed eh?
So to summarize it until you answer my questions in case you forgotten them let me quote you "WaR is bleeding subs, while AoC is gaining subs" that you can support by a official statement not just some website that just said how they think things are do not simply respond this and keep it so okay?
There is no doubt AOC is still losing customers. Funcom already said that revenues will be down 25% this quarter compared to last. Seeing as AOC is by far the biggest source of AOC revenues, it's pretty easy to put 2 and 2 together.
My guess is they are never going to do the free trial. It will cost a huge amount to pay for the bandwidth. It's like Dx10, they have basically stopped working on that since they know it won't make a difference for subscriber numbers. There goal now is to keep the players they have until they launch their next MMORPG.
As far as Warhammer.. Mythic gave numbers as of Dec 31st.. and they were significantly lower than the numbers they gave for October. Given the fact that there was a drastic decrease between october and december (given by mythic), there is no reason to believe that Warhammers numbers magically stabilized on Dec 31st. The Jan 31st 'announcement' was not met well by players who were expecting a lot more from the upcoming expansion.
having played both recently(currently playing war) i would say war is doing pretty well. seems to me they screwed themselves early on with the insane amount of servers they had but now they have consolidated most of em and the pop seems great.
actualy your info on aoc is wrong. they still doing the dx10 and the number of players is steady to slight increase as they add more content they also have a expansion planned. since that new director for the game took over it has improved alot.
I don't think you can say about any MMO whether it has failed or not until population numbers have remained consistent for years. When MMOs no longer get any new players coming in.
Plenty of MMOs have turnarounds. Relatively, for an MMO, both WAR and AoC are still in their infancy - though the latter doesn't seem all that safe from an early childhood death. WAR, at least, seems very likely to stay around for some time to come.