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SOE expanding RMT (Live Gamer)
Buccaneer
Member UncommonPosts: 654
Looks like SOE are not happy introducing the cash shop in EQ 2. Now Vanguard is getting hit by the RMT stick, but instead of the cash shop it going full RMT i.e. EQ 2 exchange servers across all of it's servers.
Links below.
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=45567
http://forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m?topic_id=45552
I think SOE are using VG as a testing ground. If it goes well expect it on all EQ 2 servers shortly afterwards (just my opinion).
Comments
wish I could say I'm shocked, but I'm not. It is just a matter of time before this is the standard for SOE, IMO. I've been expecting so see them convert the remaining EQ2 servers for some time now.
100% agree. My only hope is it will back fire big time. I've got a feeling other devs and publishers will be watching and if it's successful we may see it introduced in other MMO's.
I'm so disappointed just recently resubbed to VG.
Well, I left EQ2 when they added the MT cash shops... I even emailed Smedley to tell him I was disappointed and that it was a bad idea and he scoffed it off, of course (replied, but said I should give it a chance...)
If it comes to other games (I was one who was outraged when it came out that Turbine was looking for a RMT person), I will leave there too. I don't like goldsellers in game, but at least as long as they are illegal, I can justify that the game at least attempts to be on an even play field. When they legalize it, that illusion is shattered and I can no longer enjoy the game for what it is.
I just can't start caring about what SoE does to games i have stopped playing years ago.
These games are on their way out. Not in the sense that they will shut down but they had their glory day. Today they only have a small fraction of subscription numbers they had at their peaks. As such they are no longer cash cows. SoE needs a bigger income from these games obviously.
When SoE releases their next "hit" and they put RMT in from day 1 then i will be there with you... rallying about the Satan that is SoE. Until then i don't give a poop {ModEdit}
I was reading that second linked thread....a few pages in a SOE employee indicated it will be on all servers for Vanguard, not seperately created ones like what was done for EQ2.
As a SOE customer I gotta say I dont like this.
My highest character in VG is only like lvl 6, as I have the game on my all access but very rarely play for a few minutes.
In EQ2 I have spent a lot more time, and in my main game EQ I have tons more time invested. Are these games going to be seeing the same as well?
I used to be very vocal on my local server brd in EQ about gold farmers. I cant stand them, or the people that use them.
It sucks to see SOE legitimizing it after all this time.
The only thing good about it all I can see is that this stuff will be monitored by SOE, in turn keeping the sweat shops in china honest(or out of business). That still doesnt exactly make me happy though.
I just re-activated my All Access Pass to go back to play a little here and there. My health no longer allows me to keep extended hrs, so it wasnt like I was going back to do serious gaming...just to enjoy killing stuff as I felt up to it.
SOE has lost a lot of business since their days of being king of MMOs in America. That is why I could understand from a business point why they would make the fluff item TCG or additional servers in EQ2 for this stuff. Taking it to main servers is another matter.
Although I am not gonna up and throw away years of work in my characters in EQ and EQ2 over happenings in VG, I am now filled with dread that they will be the next step. Which is a shame...cause there were more ways to save business standing(even facing WOW) than going this road. That includes even dumping SMed if ideas, other than this ,couldnt be thought of.
Smed if you are reading, I gotta ask....are you trying to NGE all of SOE games? I dont care if you bought VG so cheaply that you can afford to use it as a test bed for your ideas. Stuff like this is what rattles the masses, and after what should of been a 'once in a lifetime total screwing up' with NGE,,,,you would think you would be treading lightly so as not to step on your pecker...again that is.
I guess you didnt stomp it hard enough the last time. Might wanna try a meat grinder this time since you are into pain. Heck there are several vets around here that would be willing to take care of it for ya no less. Perhaps that would eliminate the dick-headed moves you wanna pull.
I guess some fracks always gotta try iceskating up hill /shrug
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Heh, read through about 6-7 pages of responses also, and yeah damn near everyone that responded is against this! Meanwhile, Sony all smug and thinking they're doing the right thing again just looks the other way as their subscriptions start to close off once again.
Seriously what is wrong with Sony...are they just that dense too not notice that nobody wants this service and they're scaring away current subs and potential new ones!!!! Ah well, and here I almost subbed to VSoH last month also and I'm damn glad I didn't....I'm forever done with $ony!
The thing about RMT is that it hurts the legit players that would never dream of buying gold online from a gold seller but lets look at it from different perspectives outside your own which is what you rightly so.. should be the only one you should care about.
SoE or any other MMO company out there is losing millions of dollars.. i say lose in a loose term since they are not actually losing money but they created a game which they rightfully own and invested huge sums of money on.
There are gold sellers/item sellers out there earning millions of dollars outside these game companies control on a product they made. This is as impossible to stop as it is to stop piracy of music and movies. As long as there will be ingame trading of money and items will there be people willing to sell to you for real life cash. Not only that but it is done tax free. SoE is forced to pay taxes on those possible millions of dollars they earn from cyber items. An illegal gold/item seller does not. When people don't pay their taxes it hurts you and me. The fact it will be taxed is a good thing regardless of what anyone feels about RMT
Now that that's out of the way we can conclude there is a huge market for this. If you think i am pulling the word millions out of my ass just do some basic research. I promise it will only take about 5 to 10 minutes to get some factual realistic numbers. The question becomes who should be earning those millions of dollars already switching hands. The illegal sellers or the company that made the game. Morally it should go to the company that made the product in the first place.
It's all fine and dandy to sit there on your ass and have an opinion about what SoE or any other company that goes the RMT route should and shouldn't do "well they should just add in more anti goldseller measures" as if it was the easiest thing in the world to do and cost free. The fact is there is a huge market for it.
If you are going to hate somebody then hate people that supported goldsellers present or past. They created a business out of RMT in the first place. But i guess it's easier to point the finger at SoE without taking a shred of accountability yourself. You can't blame a business trying to get in on the action the legal way. We seem to forget game companies are in it to make money. Not live on a couch in a basement programming games for your pleasure.
Lets not even speak about the games that will have fully fledged all server RMT is games that is barely staying alive and probably isn't financially reasonable to keep alive.
I love how many players say 'but ok, more revenue for the game, more dev time, better game'. They are so sure the money SoE is getting from adding Live Gamer will go back to the game.
But I am pretty certain the money will never get back to the game it comes from. I played EQ2 from launch til december last year and I quit when they added the RMT shop.
When we got Live gamer in EQ2, people said the same, except the dev team just got smaller. When we got the tradeable card game added to EQ2, people also said 'oh, more money to the eq2 dev team', but again the dev team got smaller, the free stuff added in updates got smaller and this latest xpack feels terrible small (imo).
So the money coming in from all these RMT shops, tradeable card games and Live Gamer will most probably not go to the current games. My guess is they go to developing new games, but the money won't go back to developing current games.
I feel for the Vanguard players, Vanguard is a good game. But I sincerely hope they move on and give their money to a better company (anything other than SoE would count).
Boy, I'm glad I stopped giving SoE money. Smed turned me from a fangrrl to a hater..amazing
Edit: Buccaneer said in his OP "I think SOE are using VG as a testing ground. If it goes well expect it on all EQ 2 servers shortly afterwards (just my opinion)."
I'm afraid you are right.
If they can add it to Vanguard and the added revenue is larger than the lost subs, you can be darned sure the rest of the SoE games and not just EQ2 will get it also.
They are really a greedy people. I hate greedy people.
Won't be long before all of SOE products will be doing this. They need the cash and will do anything to get it, even as despicable as using full RMT.
SOE is headed down the path of no return. Chances of a decent product out of them are nil anymore. Their new games will be a joke with the threat of full RMT in their future.
Anyone avocading any of their games has a screw loose. Why invest time in a game when someone else can come along and purchase what all your sweat and tears took to obtain something.
BUZZ
Nil Points
RMT is already in place on EQ2, and to be honest its effect has been barely noticible. A big hooha is brewing over this and the thing you need to do is sit and ask yourself a question
'How does it affect me directly?' will you be using it? no? then it has no effect on you at all, since the people you guild with are all experienced players you are likely to notice a bought level 50 toon
As this applies only to BoE items I figure most people are hardly gonna notice, I will wait and see what impact it has before i start screaming 'The Sky Is Falling'
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
I'm so disappointed just recently resubbed to VG.
Same for me. Took another month few days ago and now, I know i won't take another month... Disappointed. Looking for another mmorpg... SOE is pathetic. Play SOE games and you'll become a SOE hater.
$OE hits Vanguard for 124.675 damage
Vanguard dies
$OE is now level 1007!
Congrats SOE, once again making a living proof that greed is just one step removed from stupidity...
Playing: AC2
Played: UO, DaoC, Horizons, Ryzom, WAR, LotRO, Eve, VG...
Don't think its entirely the effect being noticeable, but more about the fact its just there without any warning or suggestions and $ony didn't ever consider asking their paying subscribers how they feel! Damn right a majority of us care and don't want it, and if they asked by a player vote it'd been shot down; which of course $ony didn't want, and prolly would have put it in regardless if they asked or not! On top of it all they're still charging a monthly fee which is horrible...
This is pure greed through and through and it proves that $ony as usual doesn't give a damn about their customers!
Personally a cash shop doesn't bother me when its in a F2P MMO cause thats their only means of profit, and while I never use them, I appreciate having many free MMOs to play when I'm bored of a P2P. I can play whenever I want, not have to worry about a fee, and most the times there isn't that competative feeling of having to keep up with the community as I get in a P2P.
Anyway...
BUZZ
Nil Points
RMT is already in place on EQ2, and to be honest its effect has been barely noticible. A big hooha is brewing over this and the thing you need to do is sit and ask yourself a question
'How does it affect me directly?' will you be using it? no? then it has no effect on you at all, since the people you guild with are all experienced players you are likely to notice a bought level 50 toon
As this applies only to BoE items I figure most people are hardly gonna notice, I will wait and see what impact it has before i start screaming 'The Sky Is Falling'
You can sell everything that are tradeable to another player. This also means your in-game gold and characters.
So a new player can in fact buy a raid-geared character and it is all legal.
So it doesn't 'only' apply to BoE items. It applies to everything.
I wonder if this is why the Vanguard team has removed so many of the Bind on Pick-up flags, so they are now Bind-on-Equip? According to the Vanguard players (on their forum), the latest area had powerful BoE items and they wondered, since such items are normally BoP.
And it's a flawed idea that just because a person doesn't use the RMT service he/she won't be affected by it. When RMT services are introduced in a game, the whole server is affected. It doesn't matter if oneself use it or not, but one will be affected.
Just because I don't drive too fast on the highway, doesn't mean I can't be affected by those that do.
People in a community affect each other. That's how life is, no matter if we can see it or not.
Why does the size of the game or the length it has run matter?
Customers are still paying money. They are people just like those who would be playing the next big game that comes out. I fail to see the difference.
It is fine if you don't care, but just because a game is past its prime doesn't mean it should be treated as some testing ground or the players still supporting the company are less worthy of respect.
BUZZ
Nil Points
RMT is already in place on EQ2, and to be honest its effect has been barely noticible. A big hooha is brewing over this and the thing you need to do is sit and ask yourself a question
'How does it affect me directly?' will you be using it? no? then it has no effect on you at all, since the people you guild with are all experienced players you are likely to notice a bought level 50 toon
As this applies only to BoE items I figure most people are hardly gonna notice, I will wait and see what impact it has before i start screaming 'The Sky Is Falling'
The problem this time is SOE are not introducing RMT like they did in EQ 2 on seperate server's, in VG it will be implemented on all live servers. The only way to escape it is to play on the test server.
RMT will effect me and I will not use this service. One thing it will do straight of is damage the in game economy, prices will increase once in game plat is introduced to Live Gamer, rare items crafting and adventuring are going to be rare on the in game broker, because most of it will be selling through the RMT service. Most likely bots and farmers will increase. Rare drops are going to be camped and farming for cash is going to be rampant. It will increase friction in groups (mostly pugs), over drops. The days of passing over stuff you don't need will be over because now you can sell it for real life cash. This is just a couple of reasons why RMT will effect my game time without me using the service.
What a joke. Stop buying their games. Let them die.
I can't believe people still let SOE abuse them.
Shame, shame... VG had the potential to be a half-way decent game, but I disagree whole heartedly with any form of cash shop in a pay-to-play game, even for fluff items. I kinda agree with the sentiment that SoE are has beens in the MMO market. Sure they have a few ok games, like EQ2, but they are definitely over the hill with both what their games are like and how they view the market.
Back in EvE. Started with BatMUD. Main MMOs have been EvE and DAoC.
The question you really need to ask is whether this actually will increase revenue for SOE.
They did it on EQ2. Apparently it must be "working", with respect to increase revenue. Otherwise, they are not going to be stupid enough to run the costs of implementing it on VG. Remember they are businessmen at heart.
I don't think SOE is stupid. I just think they don't care about running games that you want. The fact that there are companies devoting their whole existence to RMT proves that there is a market for it. Otherwise, these companies (like livegamer) would have died a long long time ago.
Not that I will play any of the SOE games. At least WOW does not have RMT.
BUZZ
Nil Points
RMT is already in place on EQ2, and to be honest its effect has been barely noticible. A big hooha is brewing over this and the thing you need to do is sit and ask yourself a question
'How does it affect me directly?' will you be using it? no? then it has no effect on you at all, since the people you guild with are all experienced players you are likely to notice a bought level 50 toon
As this applies only to BoE items I figure most people are hardly gonna notice, I will wait and see what impact it has before i start screaming 'The Sky Is Falling'
The problem this time is SOE are not introducing RMT like they did in EQ 2 on seperate server's, in VG it will be implemented on all live servers. The only way to escape it is to play on the test server.
RMT will effect me and I will not use this service. One thing it will do straight of is damage the in game economy, prices will increase once in game plat is introduced to Live Gamer, rare items crafting and adventuring are going to be rare on the in game broker, because most of it will be selling through the RMT service. Most likely bots and farmers will increase. Rare drops are going to be camped and farming for cash is going to be rampant. It will increase friction in groups (mostly pugs), over drops. The days of passing over stuff you don't need will be over because now you can sell it for real life cash. This is just a couple of reasons why RMT will effect my game time without me using the service.
I am not sure that will be the case. As Obidom said, it is hardly noticable on the EQ2 Station Exchange servers. SoE is not producing plat to sell to players (or at least they did not in EQ2). It is players selling plat they earned to other players for real money, so inflation should not be much of an issue. The plat exists in the posession of one player or the other, and as far as the game is concerned, it is not much different than a player giving a portion of plat to another as a gift.
You also talk about people selling all of their rare items on the RMT market. This did not happen in EQ2 because, well...not many people were buying it. Most players were still more interested in 1k plat for a rare item then the $12 they could get for it. We are talking about hours and hours of farming for $20, so it is not a viable means of income for someone.
And as for botters and cheaters using it, that did not really happen either. My theory on this is that with RMT in other games were the exchange is happening on a 3rd-party website, the game company is mostly unaware of what is going on. If you are using the Station Exchange features in SoE games, however, you are telling the company "Look at me! I am selling 20x more stuff than everyone else! Please check the logs and see if I am showing any suspicious behavior!" There is just not much room to hide, which means your whole operation is much more likely to be shut down. And earning it legit without botting and exploits is just not feasible; at least not any amount to live on.
I do play Vanguard, and I am not happy that we are not getting an option of which server type to be on. However, I do not see that it will make a very big difference.
Why does the size of the game or the length it has run matter?
Customers are still paying money. They are people just like those who would be playing the next big game that comes out. I fail to see the difference.
It is fine if you don't care, but just because a game is past its prime doesn't mean it should be treated as some testing ground or the players still supporting the company are less worthy of respect.
It matters because the game no longer creates an income worth having it running. They have cut the cost of running it to the point where it's barely hanging on. What's saving it is station pass and upcoming RMT. If SoE decided to kill of Vanguard for good tomorrow and close down servers it wouldn't make a dent in their income. It's no longer a cash cow. So if they decide to put in RMT to generate some revenue to keep the turd running you should be thankful instead of an ingrate. They are showing you respect by fixing an extremely buggy game and keep it running for you to play on. IF RMT helps with that then more power to them.
As i said before if they introduce RMT into a newly launched game then i can see the reason to complain. Not for a has-been.
We have so many armchair economists on this board it's not even funny. They are saying shit like "Lets relaunch the game" "SoE should put more millions into the game and do some more advertising to save it" like that's financially feasable or even smart. But i guess us gamers know best eh?
John Smedly is a smelly turd. That is all.
Silius ruined Vanguard, but RMT is gonna kill it. Good job SOE jerks.
I am not sure that will be the case. As Obidom said, it is hardly noticable on the EQ2 Station Exchange servers. SoE is not producing plat to sell to players (or at least they did not in EQ2). It is players selling plat they earned to other players for real money, so inflation should not be much of an issue. The plat exists in the posession of one player or the other, and as far as the game is concerned, it is not much different than a player giving a portion of plat to another as a gift.
You also talk about people selling all of their rare items on the RMT market. This did not happen in EQ2 because, well...not many people were buying it. Most players were still more interested in 1k plat for a rare item then the $12 they could get for it. We are talking about hours and hours of farming for $20, so it is not a viable means of income for someone.
And as for botters and cheaters using it, that did not really happen either. My theory on this is that with RMT in other games were the exchange is happening on a 3rd-party website, the game company is mostly unaware of what is going on. If you are using the Station Exchange features in SoE games, however, you are telling the company "Look at me! I am selling 20x more stuff than everyone else! Please check the logs and see if I am showing any suspicious behavior!" There is just not much room to hide, which means your whole operation is much more likely to be shut down. And earning it legit without botting and exploits is just not feasible; at least not any amount to live on.
I do play Vanguard, and I am not happy that we are not getting an option of which server type to be on. However, I do not see that it will make a very big difference.
You may be correct and I'm over reacting to the situation. I just hate the fact that SOE will not give me the option. Its either play on the RMT servers (and still pay my subs for the privilege) or quit the game. Not much of a choice.