but.. but..... but.... my server seems like it has more people on it now then it did in December. (/sarcasm at people who fail to notice that their server was combined with 3 other servers).
Does it matter? As long as I can find a group for a dungeon or group quests I'm happy. I didn't have a problem before the merger either.
My god if you enjoy the game great. People that have to knock a game they don't even play constantly need to seek professional help.
Now... that was during August of '08. Hmm... It's March of '09 now. Therefore, it's been... oh... 7 months... over half a year ago. Therefore, how do you know those games haven't changed as well? This also was made during the Gaute era.... and Gaute was a fracking dumbass. IMO, he should have been kicked really hard for even comparing a pay2play game vs. free2play games. There is one major difference to them... they do not have a subscription to pay. Therefore, they naturally have higher subs as a lot of the people that can not afford the subscriptions (or do not want too) will play this game over a subscription-based game. Therefore, it was very asinine of him to even bring up that point in the quarterly reports. Thank goodness he is gone now.
Of the 17 MMOs that seem to be doing better than AoC, over half are free to play. No MMO has had such a fall in subs over any one year period as AoC. They had the highest subs and then crashed, SWG didn't even come close, so it is unlikely that these fell, but for at least 2, X fire shows them at higher subs still.
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Good point, people pay for quality, which AoC lacks as there are still a good number of games people are willing to pay for: Lineage 2, War, WoW, LOTOR, etc that have higher subs, and only WoW sold as many copies as fast.
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The new guy should look into improving quality or this is a FTP / 70k or less payed subs game all over again just like AO, and AoC followed the format so far.
Now... that was during August of '08. Hmm... It's March of '09 now. Therefore, it's been... oh... 7 months... over half a year ago. Therefore, how do you know those games haven't changed as well? This also was made during the Gaute era.... and Gaute was a fracking dumbass. IMO, he should have been kicked really hard for even comparing a pay2play game vs. free2play games. There is one major difference to them... they do not have a subscription to pay. Therefore, they naturally have higher subs as a lot of the people that can not afford the subscriptions (or do not want too) will play this game over a subscription-based game. Therefore, it was very asinine of him to even bring up that point in the quarterly reports. Thank goodness he is gone now.
Of the 17 MMOs that seem to be doing better than AoC, over half are free to play. No MMO has had such a fall in subs over any one year period as AoC. They had the highest subs and then crashed, SWG didn't even come close, so it is unlikely that these fell, but for at least 2, X fire shows them at higher subs still.
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Good point, people pay for quality, which AoC lacks as there are still a good number of games people are willing to pay for: Lineage 2, War, WoW, LOTOR, etc that have higher subs, and only WoW sold as many copies as fast.
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The new guy should look into improving quality or this is a FTP / 70k or less payed subs game all over again just like AO, and AoC followed the format so far.
If Funcom made AoC a FTP game with some-kind of cash shop, do you think it would help or hurt their population and revenues?
Now... that was during August of '08. Hmm... It's March of '09 now. Therefore, it's been... oh... 7 months... over half a year ago. Therefore, how do you know those games haven't changed as well? This also was made during the Gaute era.... and Gaute was a fracking dumbass. IMO, he should have been kicked really hard for even comparing a pay2play game vs. free2play games. There is one major difference to them... they do not have a subscription to pay. Therefore, they naturally have higher subs as a lot of the people that can not afford the subscriptions (or do not want too) will play this game over a subscription-based game. Therefore, it was very asinine of him to even bring up that point in the quarterly reports. Thank goodness he is gone now.
Of the 17 MMOs (Still no solid proof on this figure) that seem to be doing better than AoC, over half are free to play. No MMO has had such a fall in subs over any one year period as AoC. They had the highest subs (*cough* you need a history lesson on that phrase... WoW was the highest) and then crashed, SWG didn't even come close, so it is unlikely that these fell, but for at least 2, X fire shows them at higher subs still. (Xfire broken record again I see... fail)
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Good point, people pay for quality, which AoC lacks (Opinionated BS) as there are still a good number of games people are willing to pay for: Lineage 2 (Proof?), War (Proof?), WoW (ya think?), LOTOR (Proof?), etc that have higher subs, and only WoW sold as many copies as fast.
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The new guy should look into improving quality or this is a FTP / 70k or less (Opinionated BS... no proof one bit on this figure) payed subs game all over again just like AO, and AoC followed the format so far.
You keep saying all these other games that have higher subs but, yet, provide absolutely no solid proof on these "findings". The only one we know for certain that has higher subs is WoW as Blizz keeps anouncing their sub figures on a regular basis. The others don't do that... at least on a regular basis that is. Last official announcement of sub numbers for LoTRO was last year IIRC. And, WAR is apparently hemmoraging subs... well, if you believe what the Trolls pose over on the WAR forums.
Seriously... stop with the Xfire mantra. It's already been proven time and time again that Xfire are not sound statistics. Yet, you grasp on that only site as you have no other hope to turn to for your Crusade against Funcom. Yes, your motives are very transparent.
Originally posted by Ubie If Funcom made AoC a FTP game with some-kind of cash shop, do you think it would help or hurt their population and revenues?
No idea, they could do the item shop anyway, Sony is doing that on their dying games. What I do know is if this game stays at the bottom, changes will be demanded...in game advertising and item shops will probably happen. FC has two moves left, free trials and the expansion.
However, if people will play a game based on the cost, which many people here argue and I disagree with - though I do know people buy those subs when they are discounted @ circut city. IE if subs are cut in half or at least down to 10 dollars...the population may triple or quadruple and that would increase profits, there are still ghost town servers, idile capacity, and it doesn't look like any server is close to full capacity.
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10 years ago I was playing EQ 1 @ 15 per month, inflation is usually 3% per year so the time value of money is %15x1.03^10 = 20. So if they find that people don't care about subscription pricing which makes it elastic, they could just raise the price. It doesn't seem as if AoC will ever redeem itself and gain loads of subs so maybe they can charge the ones they do have more and call the game niche.
The only one we know for certain that has higher subs is WoW as Blizz keeps anouncing their sub figures on a regular basis.
It was this line here that gave complete proof that you've got no clue at all.
EVE, over 250k subs, their numbers are mentioned constantly.
LotRO, went over 300k with Moria's launch iirc (or it was 350k, but was over 300k).
EQ1/2 still in the several hundred thousand range (each). Even if each are only 200k at this point, that significantly passes what AoC could possibly have due to Funcom's own financial evidence.
Linage 1/2 still have god knows how many people playing, despite the inhuman grind.
FF XII was around 500k subs last time numbers were given, about a year ago iirc.
Dofus, Runescape, Perfect World...etc have tons of players, but are F2P, however F2P (microtransaction) games have also been extremely profitable lately. The above games certainly didn't cause a financial loss of over 20 million dollars within a year like Funcom experienced.
You sticking your head in the sand and calling things you don't like as opinion because you haven't looked at the evidence, or refuse to because it goes against what you want to be true, doesn't make you right, it makes you Al Gore.
The only one we know for certain that has higher subs is WoW as Blizz keeps anouncing their sub figures on a regular basis.
It was this line here that gave complete proof that you've got no clue at all.
EVE, over 250k subs, their numbers are mentioned constantly.
LotRO, went over 300k with Moria's launch iirc (or it was 350k, but was over 300k).
EQ1/2 still in the several hundred thousand range (each). Even if each are only 200k at this point, that significantly passes what AoC could possibly have due to Funcom's own financial evidence.
Linage 1/2 still have god knows how many people playing, despite the inhuman grind.
FF XII was around 500k subs last time numbers were given, about a year ago iirc.
Dofus, Runescape, Perfect World...etc have tons of players, but are F2P, however F2P (microtransaction) games have also been extremely profitable lately. The above games certainly didn't cause a financial loss of over 20 million dollars within a year like Funcom experienced.
You sticking your head in the sand and calling things you don't like as opinion because you haven't looked at the evidence, or refuse to because it goes against what you want to be true, doesn't make you right, it makes you Al Gore.
You forgot that Warhammer also announced a few weeks ago that on Dec 31st they had 325k subscribers.
WOW, EVE, WAR, LOTRO all have released official numbers in the past few months. The only thing we can prove about AOC is that it doesn't have over 125,000 subscribers as of Dec 31st. The analyst who follows the stock put their subscriber base at 70,000. The truth is probably in the middle.
WOW, EVE, WAR, LOTRO all have released official numbers in the past few months. The only thing we can prove about AOC is that it doesn't have over 125,000 subscribers as of Dec 31st. The analyst who follows the stock put their subscriber base at 70,000. The truth is probably in the middle. LOTRO has never released numbers.
The Analyst who followed the stock admitted his numbers came from "Xfire" who is far from the authority here. I still think any guess of how many scrips AoC has will be a wild guess until Funcom says otherwise. I just think the speculation gets old after a while myself. Thanks
WOW, EVE, WAR, LOTRO all have released official numbers in the past few months. The only thing we can prove about AOC is that it doesn't have over 125,000 subscribers as of Dec 31st. The analyst who follows the stock put their subscriber base at 70,000. The truth is probably in the middle. LOTRO has never released numbers.
The Analyst who followed the stock admitted his numbers came from "Xfire" who is far from the authority here. I still think any guess of how many scrips AoC has will be a wild guess until Funcom says otherwise. I just think the speculation gets old after a while myself. Thanks
Openedge can you explain to me why AoC's subscriptions are a guess when we have Funcom's financial statements? You know, those big lists of numbers that detail where Funcom's money comes from?
Funcom has only two sources of revenue:
1. Anarchy Online
2. Age of Conan
And we know within a few hundred thousand dollars what Anarchy Online generates. Why do you think it is speculation? That's akin to saying it is impossible to count how many people are in a room when there is a registered list of the people outside the room on a bulletin board.
Once Funcom starts making more money then it can be safely said that they have more subscriptions. Pretty simple. Lol.
WOW, EVE, WAR, LOTRO all have released official numbers in the past few months. The only thing we can prove about AOC is that it doesn't have over 125,000 subscribers as of Dec 31st. The analyst who follows the stock put their subscriber base at 70,000. The truth is probably in the middle. LOTRO has never released numbers.
The Analyst who followed the stock admitted his numbers came from "Xfire" who is far from the authority here. I still think any guess of how many scrips AoC has will be a wild guess until Funcom says otherwise. I just think the speculation gets old after a while myself. Thanks
Openedge can you explain to me why AoC's subscriptions are a guess when we have Funcom's financial statements? You know, those big lists of numbers that detail where Funcom's money comes from?
Funcom has only two sources of revenue:
1. Anarchy Online
2. Age of Conan
And we know within a few hundred thousand dollars what Anarchy Online generates. Why do you think it is speculation? That's akin to saying it is impossible to count how many people are in a room when there is a registered list of the people outside the room on a bulletin board.
Once Funcom starts making more money then it can be safely said that they have more subscriptions. Pretty simple. Lol.
Lit
I think the reason I state "Speculation gets old" is that every discussion gets derailed with the discussion of the numbers. As well, if the numbers are so well written out for those perusing the financial's, why does a stock analyst still insist on using Xfire?
I still think it is guessing. For example, people keep stating the game has 125k or less, yet is ANYONE taking Poland or Russia into account? I do not think so. Who knows if they should be counted.
Thus, we get speculation. I for one could care less, as I still have a full guild, can get groups when I need it, and the bottom line is the game is still running. Only the armchair analysts care, and I wish those discussions just moved to General instead.
WOW, EVE, WAR, LOTRO all have released official numbers in the past few months. The only thing we can prove about AOC is that it doesn't have over 125,000 subscribers as of Dec 31st. The analyst who follows the stock put their subscriber base at 70,000. The truth is probably in the middle. LOTRO has never released numbers.
The Analyst who followed the stock admitted his numbers came from "Xfire" who is far from the authority here. I still think any guess of how many scrips AoC has will be a wild guess until Funcom says otherwise. I just think the speculation gets old after a while myself. Thanks
Openedge can you explain to me why AoC's subscriptions are a guess when we have Funcom's financial statements? You know, those big lists of numbers that detail where Funcom's money comes from?
Funcom has only two sources of revenue:
1. Anarchy Online
2. Age of Conan
And we know within a few hundred thousand dollars what Anarchy Online generates. Why do you think it is speculation? That's akin to saying it is impossible to count how many people are in a room when there is a registered list of the people outside the room on a bulletin board.
Once Funcom starts making more money then it can be safely said that they have more subscriptions. Pretty simple. Lol.
Lit
I think the reason I state "Speculation gets old" is that every discussion gets derailed with the discussion of the numbers. As well, if the numbers are so well written out for those perusing the financial's, why does a stock analyst still insist on using Xfire?
I still think it is guessing. For example, people keep stating the game has 125k or less, yet is ANYONE taking Poland or Russia into account? I do not think so. Who knows if they should be counted.
Thus, we get speculation. I for one could care less, as I still have a full guild, can get groups when I need it, and the bottom line is the game is still running. Only the armchair analysts care, and I wish those discussions just moved to General instead.
Thanks
Funcom is taking Russia and Poland into account. They are the ones telling us that Revenues will be decreasing 25% this quarter.
It is fairly easy to guess subscribers in the 4th quarter because almost all of Funcom's revenues come from AOC ( <1 mil from ao). It is also fairly easy to guess that subscribers are going to decrease by 25% in the 1st quarter because FUNCOM IS TELLING US.
I think the reason I state "Speculation gets old" is that every discussion gets derailed with the discussion of the numbers. As well, if the numbers are so well written out for those perusing the financial's, why does a stock analyst still insist on using Xfire?
I still think it is guessing. For example, people keep stating the game has 125k or less, yet is ANYONE taking Poland or Russia into account? I do not think so. Who knows if they should be counted.
Thus, we get speculation. I for one could care less, as I still have a full guild, can get groups when I need it, and the bottom line is the game is still running. Only the armchair analysts care, and I wish those discussions just moved to General instead.
Thanks
I really don't care what some pretend analyst says who uses XFire.
However I will let you know that Funcom has taken Poland and Russia into account. Because Funcom provides guidance for the quarter halfway through the quarter. That is, halfway into the first quarter, Funcom predicted that its revenue will go down. Funcom has never missed its guidance, so no matter how well Poland or Russia do, Funcom obviously anticipates that it will not prevent a revenue drop.
I think you can trust a company with half the data already in to make a pretty solid prediction of how things are going to go.
Not really, Funcom got 2-3 million from selling the game's rights to Asia in Q4, guess they realized that the FTP games over there are better than AoC and it won't do well. I would also guess that the AO expansion sold around $1 million of sales, if all the paying subscribers got a copy.
The figure dropped because the game stabilized, there is not growth or decline in pop expected. It doesn't matter fewer than 100k people play so this game is failing AND burning through even more cash....Funcom was so lazy in fixing the game, so they deserve it.
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I reccomended that people shortsell (bet against this company) this stock prior to Q4 and I was right: 4.50 Nok - 3.85 Nok = over a 15% ROI, which is probably the only positive ROI Funcom will ever give you. You usually have two months to shortsell so the price should keep going down, less they fire half the staff, until next month when consumer behavior kicks in.
The only one we know for certain that has higher subs is WoW as Blizz keeps anouncing their sub figures on a regular basis.
It was this line here that gave complete proof that you've got no clue at all.
EVE, over 250k subs, their numbers are mentioned constantly.
LotRO, went over 300k with Moria's launch iirc (or it was 350k, but was over 300k).
EQ1/2 still in the several hundred thousand range (each). Even if each are only 200k at this point, that significantly passes what AoC could possibly have due to Funcom's own financial evidence.
Linage 1/2 still have god knows how many people playing, despite the inhuman grind.
FF XII was around 500k subs last time numbers were given, about a year ago iirc.
Dofus, Runescape, Perfect World...etc have tons of players, but are F2P, however F2P (microtransaction) games have also been extremely profitable lately. The above games certainly didn't cause a financial loss of over 20 million dollars within a year like Funcom experienced.
You sticking your head in the sand and calling things you don't like as opinion because you haven't looked at the evidence, or refuse to because it goes against what you want to be true, doesn't make you right, it makes you Al Gore.
K... I admit that I forgot about EvE (as I personally dislike the game). But, yes, they constantly put up numbers. So... that makes 2 absolute population values we know. Of course, finaticd made no mention of EvE in his previous AoC bashing posts.
I also forgot DAoC as everyone can look up the current players (as pathetic as they are) online. So... 3 now.
I have never seen Turbine list subscription numbers for LoTRO at all.
I have never known SoE to post population figures for EQ1 and 2. If they have, then they are not recent figures. Thus, I disregard them as they are outdated. The same with Lineage 1 & 2.
K... I have never seen official population figures posted for FFXII. However, if you are true, sub figures for a year ago (or more) is not recent. Thus, those are disregarded by me.
And, no solid figures for players of those other F2P games have ever been listed (as only the company would know). Anyways, IMO, its asinine to compare F2P player counts to P2P subscriptions because anyone who believes that P2P is going to beat F2P is deluding themselves as everyone has a chance to play F2P at anytime due to not requiring to pay for subscriptions. The only exception is WoW, but WoW is the God of Exceptions in the MMORPG universe.
Therefore, we have... 3 games with solid population figures. A little far from the "17" figure posted by finaticd.
Oh, and please leave politics or political figures out of this thread. There's a reason they call it "Off Topic" as they have no purpose in this forum. If you want to discuss that BS, please take it to the forum dedicated just to that BS on this site.
And, no solid figures for players of those other F2P games have ever been listed (as only the company would know). Anyways, IMO, its asinine to compare F2P player counts to P2P subscriptions because anyone who believes that P2P is going to beat F2P is deluding themselves as everyone has a chance to play F2P at anytime due to not requiring to pay for subscriptions. The only exception is WoW, but WoW is the God of Exceptions in the MMORPG universe.
I wasn't referring to population with the F2P games, I was referring to their profit. the most popular free to play games are making above and beyond what pay to play mmos, other than WoW, are pulling in. The estimated income for some of them (like runescape) is up into the 9 digit range. That's far more profitable than AoC is or will be this year.
Oh, and please leave politics or political figures out of this thread. There's a reason they call it "Off Topic" as they have no purpose in this forum. If you want to discuss that BS, please take it to the forum dedicated just to that BS on this site.
The irony of this from a guy who's avatar is GW Bush...
And Gore isn't a political figure, he's a cult leader, there's a difference.
Comments
Does it matter? As long as I can find a group for a dungeon or group quests I'm happy. I didn't have a problem before the merger either.
My god if you enjoy the game great. People that have to knock a game they don't even play constantly need to seek professional help.
.. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Of the 17 MMOs that seem to be doing better than AoC, over half are free to play. No MMO has had such a fall in subs over any one year period as AoC. They had the highest subs and then crashed, SWG didn't even come close, so it is unlikely that these fell, but for at least 2, X fire shows them at higher subs still.
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Good point, people pay for quality, which AoC lacks as there are still a good number of games people are willing to pay for: Lineage 2, War, WoW, LOTOR, etc that have higher subs, and only WoW sold as many copies as fast.
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The new guy should look into improving quality or this is a FTP / 70k or less payed subs game all over again just like AO, and AoC followed the format so far.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
Of the 17 MMOs that seem to be doing better than AoC, over half are free to play. No MMO has had such a fall in subs over any one year period as AoC. They had the highest subs and then crashed, SWG didn't even come close, so it is unlikely that these fell, but for at least 2, X fire shows them at higher subs still.
****************
Good point, people pay for quality, which AoC lacks as there are still a good number of games people are willing to pay for: Lineage 2, War, WoW, LOTOR, etc that have higher subs, and only WoW sold as many copies as fast.
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The new guy should look into improving quality or this is a FTP / 70k or less payed subs game all over again just like AO, and AoC followed the format so far.
If Funcom made AoC a FTP game with some-kind of cash shop, do you think it would help or hurt their population and revenues?
Of the 17 MMOs (Still no solid proof on this figure) that seem to be doing better than AoC, over half are free to play. No MMO has had such a fall in subs over any one year period as AoC. They had the highest subs (*cough* you need a history lesson on that phrase... WoW was the highest) and then crashed, SWG didn't even come close, so it is unlikely that these fell, but for at least 2, X fire shows them at higher subs still. (Xfire broken record again I see... fail)
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Good point, people pay for quality, which AoC lacks (Opinionated BS) as there are still a good number of games people are willing to pay for: Lineage 2 (Proof?), War (Proof?), WoW (ya think?), LOTOR (Proof?), etc that have higher subs, and only WoW sold as many copies as fast.
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The new guy should look into improving quality or this is a FTP / 70k or less (Opinionated BS... no proof one bit on this figure) payed subs game all over again just like AO, and AoC followed the format so far.
You keep saying all these other games that have higher subs but, yet, provide absolutely no solid proof on these "findings". The only one we know for certain that has higher subs is WoW as Blizz keeps anouncing their sub figures on a regular basis. The others don't do that... at least on a regular basis that is. Last official announcement of sub numbers for LoTRO was last year IIRC. And, WAR is apparently hemmoraging subs... well, if you believe what the Trolls pose over on the WAR forums.
Seriously... stop with the Xfire mantra. It's already been proven time and time again that Xfire are not sound statistics. Yet, you grasp on that only site as you have no other hope to turn to for your Crusade against Funcom. Yes, your motives are very transparent.
No idea, they could do the item shop anyway, Sony is doing that on their dying games. What I do know is if this game stays at the bottom, changes will be demanded...in game advertising and item shops will probably happen. FC has two moves left, free trials and the expansion.
However, if people will play a game based on the cost, which many people here argue and I disagree with - though I do know people buy those subs when they are discounted @ circut city. IE if subs are cut in half or at least down to 10 dollars...the population may triple or quadruple and that would increase profits, there are still ghost town servers, idile capacity, and it doesn't look like any server is close to full capacity.
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10 years ago I was playing EQ 1 @ 15 per month, inflation is usually 3% per year so the time value of money is %15x1.03^10 = 20. So if they find that people don't care about subscription pricing which makes it elastic, they could just raise the price. It doesn't seem as if AoC will ever redeem itself and gain loads of subs so maybe they can charge the ones they do have more and call the game niche.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
.
It was this line here that gave complete proof that you've got no clue at all.
EVE, over 250k subs, their numbers are mentioned constantly.
LotRO, went over 300k with Moria's launch iirc (or it was 350k, but was over 300k).
EQ1/2 still in the several hundred thousand range (each). Even if each are only 200k at this point, that significantly passes what AoC could possibly have due to Funcom's own financial evidence.
Linage 1/2 still have god knows how many people playing, despite the inhuman grind.
FF XII was around 500k subs last time numbers were given, about a year ago iirc.
Dofus, Runescape, Perfect World...etc have tons of players, but are F2P, however F2P (microtransaction) games have also been extremely profitable lately. The above games certainly didn't cause a financial loss of over 20 million dollars within a year like Funcom experienced.
You sticking your head in the sand and calling things you don't like as opinion because you haven't looked at the evidence, or refuse to because it goes against what you want to be true, doesn't make you right, it makes you Al Gore.
It was this line here that gave complete proof that you've got no clue at all.
EVE, over 250k subs, their numbers are mentioned constantly.
LotRO, went over 300k with Moria's launch iirc (or it was 350k, but was over 300k).
EQ1/2 still in the several hundred thousand range (each). Even if each are only 200k at this point, that significantly passes what AoC could possibly have due to Funcom's own financial evidence.
Linage 1/2 still have god knows how many people playing, despite the inhuman grind.
FF XII was around 500k subs last time numbers were given, about a year ago iirc.
Dofus, Runescape, Perfect World...etc have tons of players, but are F2P, however F2P (microtransaction) games have also been extremely profitable lately. The above games certainly didn't cause a financial loss of over 20 million dollars within a year like Funcom experienced.
You sticking your head in the sand and calling things you don't like as opinion because you haven't looked at the evidence, or refuse to because it goes against what you want to be true, doesn't make you right, it makes you Al Gore.
You forgot that Warhammer also announced a few weeks ago that on Dec 31st they had 325k subscribers.
WOW, EVE, WAR, LOTRO all have released official numbers in the past few months. The only thing we can prove about AOC is that it doesn't have over 125,000 subscribers as of Dec 31st. The analyst who follows the stock put their subscriber base at 70,000. The truth is probably in the middle.
Openedge can you explain to me why AoC's subscriptions are a guess when we have Funcom's financial statements? You know, those big lists of numbers that detail where Funcom's money comes from?
Funcom has only two sources of revenue:
1. Anarchy Online
2. Age of Conan
And we know within a few hundred thousand dollars what Anarchy Online generates. Why do you think it is speculation? That's akin to saying it is impossible to count how many people are in a room when there is a registered list of the people outside the room on a bulletin board.
Once Funcom starts making more money then it can be safely said that they have more subscriptions. Pretty simple. Lol.
Lit
Openedge can you explain to me why AoC's subscriptions are a guess when we have Funcom's financial statements? You know, those big lists of numbers that detail where Funcom's money comes from?
Funcom has only two sources of revenue:
1. Anarchy Online
2. Age of Conan
And we know within a few hundred thousand dollars what Anarchy Online generates. Why do you think it is speculation? That's akin to saying it is impossible to count how many people are in a room when there is a registered list of the people outside the room on a bulletin board.
Once Funcom starts making more money then it can be safely said that they have more subscriptions. Pretty simple. Lol.
Lit
I think the reason I state "Speculation gets old" is that every discussion gets derailed with the discussion of the numbers. As well, if the numbers are so well written out for those perusing the financial's, why does a stock analyst still insist on using Xfire?
I still think it is guessing. For example, people keep stating the game has 125k or less, yet is ANYONE taking Poland or Russia into account? I do not think so. Who knows if they should be counted.
Thus, we get speculation. I for one could care less, as I still have a full guild, can get groups when I need it, and the bottom line is the game is still running. Only the armchair analysts care, and I wish those discussions just moved to General instead.
Thanks
Openedge can you explain to me why AoC's subscriptions are a guess when we have Funcom's financial statements? You know, those big lists of numbers that detail where Funcom's money comes from?
Funcom has only two sources of revenue:
1. Anarchy Online
2. Age of Conan
And we know within a few hundred thousand dollars what Anarchy Online generates. Why do you think it is speculation? That's akin to saying it is impossible to count how many people are in a room when there is a registered list of the people outside the room on a bulletin board.
Once Funcom starts making more money then it can be safely said that they have more subscriptions. Pretty simple. Lol.
Lit
I think the reason I state "Speculation gets old" is that every discussion gets derailed with the discussion of the numbers. As well, if the numbers are so well written out for those perusing the financial's, why does a stock analyst still insist on using Xfire?
I still think it is guessing. For example, people keep stating the game has 125k or less, yet is ANYONE taking Poland or Russia into account? I do not think so. Who knows if they should be counted.
Thus, we get speculation. I for one could care less, as I still have a full guild, can get groups when I need it, and the bottom line is the game is still running. Only the armchair analysts care, and I wish those discussions just moved to General instead.
Thanks
Funcom is taking Russia and Poland into account. They are the ones telling us that Revenues will be decreasing 25% this quarter.
It is fairly easy to guess subscribers in the 4th quarter because almost all of Funcom's revenues come from AOC ( <1 mil from ao). It is also fairly easy to guess that subscribers are going to decrease by 25% in the 1st quarter because FUNCOM IS TELLING US.
I think the reason I state "Speculation gets old" is that every discussion gets derailed with the discussion of the numbers. As well, if the numbers are so well written out for those perusing the financial's, why does a stock analyst still insist on using Xfire?
I still think it is guessing. For example, people keep stating the game has 125k or less, yet is ANYONE taking Poland or Russia into account? I do not think so. Who knows if they should be counted.
Thus, we get speculation. I for one could care less, as I still have a full guild, can get groups when I need it, and the bottom line is the game is still running. Only the armchair analysts care, and I wish those discussions just moved to General instead.
Thanks
I really don't care what some pretend analyst says who uses XFire.
However I will let you know that Funcom has taken Poland and Russia into account. Because Funcom provides guidance for the quarter halfway through the quarter. That is, halfway into the first quarter, Funcom predicted that its revenue will go down. Funcom has never missed its guidance, so no matter how well Poland or Russia do, Funcom obviously anticipates that it will not prevent a revenue drop.
I think you can trust a company with half the data already in to make a pretty solid prediction of how things are going to go.
Lit
Not really, Funcom got 2-3 million from selling the game's rights to Asia in Q4, guess they realized that the FTP games over there are better than AoC and it won't do well. I would also guess that the AO expansion sold around $1 million of sales, if all the paying subscribers got a copy.
The figure dropped because the game stabilized, there is not growth or decline in pop expected. It doesn't matter fewer than 100k people play so this game is failing AND burning through even more cash....Funcom was so lazy in fixing the game, so they deserve it.
*****************
I reccomended that people shortsell (bet against this company) this stock prior to Q4 and I was right: 4.50 Nok - 3.85 Nok = over a 15% ROI, which is probably the only positive ROI Funcom will ever give you. You usually have two months to shortsell so the price should keep going down, less they fire half the staff, until next month when consumer behavior kicks in.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
It was this line here that gave complete proof that you've got no clue at all.
EVE, over 250k subs, their numbers are mentioned constantly.
LotRO, went over 300k with Moria's launch iirc (or it was 350k, but was over 300k).
EQ1/2 still in the several hundred thousand range (each). Even if each are only 200k at this point, that significantly passes what AoC could possibly have due to Funcom's own financial evidence.
Linage 1/2 still have god knows how many people playing, despite the inhuman grind.
FF XII was around 500k subs last time numbers were given, about a year ago iirc.
Dofus, Runescape, Perfect World...etc have tons of players, but are F2P, however F2P (microtransaction) games have also been extremely profitable lately. The above games certainly didn't cause a financial loss of over 20 million dollars within a year like Funcom experienced.
You sticking your head in the sand and calling things you don't like as opinion because you haven't looked at the evidence, or refuse to because it goes against what you want to be true, doesn't make you right, it makes you Al Gore.
K... I admit that I forgot about EvE (as I personally dislike the game). But, yes, they constantly put up numbers. So... that makes 2 absolute population values we know. Of course, finaticd made no mention of EvE in his previous AoC bashing posts.
I also forgot DAoC as everyone can look up the current players (as pathetic as they are) online. So... 3 now.
I have never seen Turbine list subscription numbers for LoTRO at all.
I have never known SoE to post population figures for EQ1 and 2. If they have, then they are not recent figures. Thus, I disregard them as they are outdated. The same with Lineage 1 & 2.
K... I have never seen official population figures posted for FFXII. However, if you are true, sub figures for a year ago (or more) is not recent. Thus, those are disregarded by me.
And, no solid figures for players of those other F2P games have ever been listed (as only the company would know). Anyways, IMO, its asinine to compare F2P player counts to P2P subscriptions because anyone who believes that P2P is going to beat F2P is deluding themselves as everyone has a chance to play F2P at anytime due to not requiring to pay for subscriptions. The only exception is WoW, but WoW is the God of Exceptions in the MMORPG universe.
Therefore, we have... 3 games with solid population figures. A little far from the "17" figure posted by finaticd.
Oh, and please leave politics or political figures out of this thread. There's a reason they call it "Off Topic" as they have no purpose in this forum. If you want to discuss that BS, please take it to the forum dedicated just to that BS on this site.
I wasn't referring to population with the F2P games, I was referring to their profit. the most popular free to play games are making above and beyond what pay to play mmos, other than WoW, are pulling in. The estimated income for some of them (like runescape) is up into the 9 digit range. That's far more profitable than AoC is or will be this year.
The irony of this from a guy who's avatar is GW Bush...
And Gore isn't a political figure, he's a cult leader, there's a difference.