WAR is making me lazy

gschenk3

The red circles on the map that show nearly exactly where I should go and what I should do for a quest is a great thing, but it is making me lazy. I started playing MMOs with EQ back in 2001 when getting and actually finishing a quest required more luck and advise from other people than anything else. Back then if you wanted a map you either bought the incredibly inaccurate EQ Atlas or looked it up online.

Do you think this is a sign of things to come for MMOs? I don't think that WoW has added anything like this in yet or if they are planning on it, but because I've gotten so dependent on it I think I really will miss this feature on new games that don't have it.

The good thing about the markers is that because zones in most every game are in the 5 to 10 level range we're going to see the same scenery a lot. It's really not a question if we are going to explore a zone, we'll pretty much go everywhere in it during those times. Having to guess or search online for the location of an NPC or mob doesn't really add anything except for a very small inconvenience for the most part.

The bad thing about it is that if for some reason this was someone's first MMO they aren't really going to be able to transfer much of the quest experience in this game to any other they move on to. A very valuable skill of actually having to explore or search for answers just isn't necessary here.

So in closing...I don't have much of a point. It's a very interesting feature and one that I really enjoy, even though I know it's not the best for me.

 

Ramones274

I'm having a lovehate relationship with this feature of WAR. I always get really frustrated when I can't find a quest location in other games, but I feel so much more acomplished when I figure it out.

I think WAR makes you lose that sense of acomplishment, even if it is nice not being frustrated. Since there is no challenge whatsoever, it makes these types of quests seem even more redundant.

Don't get me wrong, I think WAR has alot of things going for it...

vinceh

Originally posted by gschenk3


The red circles on the map that show nearly exactly where I should go and what I should do for a quest is a great thing, but it is making me lazy. I started playing MMOs with EQ back in 2001 when getting and actually finishing a quest required more luck and advise from other people than anything else. Back then if you wanted a map you either bought the incredibly inaccurate EQ Atlas or looked it up online.
Do you think this is a sign of things to come for MMOs? I don't think that WoW has added anything like this in yet or if they are planning on it, but because I've gotten so dependent on it I think I really will miss this feature on new games that don't have it.
Not really.  I mean, WAR isn't story driven (even though a lot of people play the game because of the lore), so it's not really necessary to make quests any more difficult then they should be; they're there simply as a method of leveling up.  If you are the type of player that enjoys story and the sense of adventure, then unmarked/guided quests can allow the game to be immersive.  It really depends on how you play.  But I'm guessing that if you enjoy WAR, then you're probably better off WITH the quest helping feature.
The good thing about the markers is that because zones in most every game are in the 5 to 10 level range we're going to see the same scenery a lot. It's really not a question if we are going to explore a zone, we'll pretty much go everywhere in it during those times. Having to guess or search online for the location of an NPC or mob doesn't really add anything except for a very small inconvenience for the most part.
I remember playing WAR.  I never did a single quest (besides the Epic Weapon Quests in T4).
The bad thing about it is that if for some reason this was someone's first MMO they aren't really going to be able to transfer much of the quest experience in this game to any other they move on to. A very valuable skill of actually having to explore or search for answers just isn't necessary here.
So in closing...I don't have much of a point. It's a very interesting feature and one that I really enjoy, even though I know it's not the best for me.
Personally, I don't like quests.  The reason for that is because MMOs have made them a mechanism for leveling up, instead of giving the player a chance to go on an adventure and earn nice things.  If there were to be quests in a game, I'd want them to be Epic quests that only high level players should try.  These quests are a chain of small quests and offer little exp.  They do, however, reward the player with a nice skill or item or something. 

 

declaredemer

Yes.  I think we want a world in which we

1. Explore in
2. Travel, sometimes dangerously, in
3. Build in
4. Create in
5. Fight in

 

 

The MMORPG industry is making everything so linear, so PvP-oriented that no one really wants to play these games. 

 

 

In fact, I am not even playing any MMORPGs right now, and it appears that will be the case for the foreseeable future.  I have money.  I have a nice PC.  I have the will to play.  I have the ability to play.  I am ready to play.

 

But there is no game worth "playing."  

OneEyeRed

Originally posted by declaredemer


Yes.  I think we want a world in which we

Explore in
Travel, sometimes dangerously, in
Build in
Create in
Fight in

 
 
The MMORPG industry is making everything so linear, so PvP-oriented that no one really wants to play these games. 
 
 
In fact, I am not even playing any MMORPGs right now, and it appears that will be the case for the foreseeable future.  I have money.  I have a nice PC.  I have the will to play.  I have the ability to play.  I am ready to play.
 
But there is no game worth "playing."  

 

I am in the same boat and I have given up on the MMO industry in general. The direction that the genre is currently flowing in leaves us with little to look forward to. You said it best when you said "but there is no game worth playing"...

Quizzical

If a quest says, go find such and such item but I'm not going to tell you where, you go search randomly, see it after 20 minutes, don't recognize that it's what you're looking for, spend another hour searching, and then give up, that's not fun.

Ramones274

Originally posted by Quizzical


If a quest says, go find such and such item but I'm not going to tell you where, you go search randomly, see it after 20 minutes, don't recognize that it's what you're looking for, spend another hour searching, and then give up, that's not fun.

 

Well, most quests in MMO's at least give you a general idea of where the quest is. It'd be pretty weird to get a quest that says 'do this', doesn't give a location and isn't at least located in the gerneral vicinity of the quest giver. Devs know we aren't psychic.

Unless it's an epic quest and it's meant to be hard and frustrating. That's understandable.

Elikal

Originally posted by Ramones274


I'm having a lovehate relationship with this feature of WAR. I always get really frustrated when I can't find a quest location in other games, but I feel so much more acomplished when I figure it out.
I think WAR makes you lose that sense of acomplishment, even if it is nice not being frustrated. Since there is no challenge whatsoever, it makes these types of quests seem even more redundant.
Don't get me wrong, I think WAR has alot of things going for it...

 

I felt a lot the same. On the one hand, I cursed the many hours I wandered around in other MMOs with vague target descriptions. I guess these days no one plays EQ2 or LOTRO without constant alt-tabbing to Allakhazham - and in MY opinion thats a sign something went wrong with game design. Quest goals should be self-explanatory without ourside sources. I really hate the need to look at websites while playing. Insofar it is a kowtow to reality. But it DOES make lazy. I am glad WAR just showed the region, not the exact spot like Oblivion. I found that a good compromise. 

There were other features I found much more making people lazy, like making every quest along one quest tunnel like in an amusement park or stuff like that.

Bodeus

I maybe remembering incorrectly, havent played WAR in 3 or 4 months but cant you turn that feature off in the options some where?

zspawn

You can disable it yes you're correct.

 

Warhammer is extremely casual on PvE thus the quest guide.

Simple quests, fast and noted on map.

 

 

To the people saying "nothing worth playing", I say life is too short to wait for a messiah of MMOs.

I don't think what you're waiting for will ever exist...

You can really have fun even in the simplest, easiest, or even the worst MMOs. You just gotta be open and willing.

 

 

Z3R01

 

Does it really matter anymore?

With every mmo having either a Quest helper mod or a game site telling everyone exactly where every quest item is.

Heres the deal if you dont want to use WARs quest guidance system, dont look at the map.

Personally I enjoy taking a while to figure a quest out, but so many more would rather be given a hint of the location.

WAR in general is not a very deep game, Even though its a fun game by spending more then 30 minutes in the game you already know its not trying to be challenging in anyway on the pve side of things.

 

Death1942

the real problem is many players and developers see the number of quests as an indicator of content.  How many games have you seen  advertise how many quests they have? or how many hours of quests they have?

 

I personally hate the way quests are used.  Why the hell are there quests to speak to a guy in the next room or grab a book on the other side of town?   I would prefer a more DnD approach to things.  You have one or two big chain quests that take you through a zone and you have a few smaller side quests.

Ockham

There is an addon for WoW called Carbonite that does this same thing (and more actually). 



It's got a little arrow on the screen that points you in the direction to go along with the map.  Check it out if you think the feature in WAR makes you lazy.  And then try playing WoW without it.  I bet you won't.   :P

 

 

Personally, I think people are realistic in missing the EQ days.  But also realistically, those days are gone.  It was just a few people that had the time and commitment to play a game like EQ.  Features like this in WAR make the MMO market open to many more players.  And that is what the developers (who deserve to make money just like every other business) have as one of their major goals.  It's a business and it takes a lot of people and time to make these games.  It's just the way it is.

GreenChaos

 

Mass Effect has it both ways.  Some things are marked for  you some aren't. 

 

So if you want to play it quick you just follow the markers, if you want to find everything than you explore everything.  Both games styles win out.

 

LondonMagus

Originally posted by gschenk3


The red circles on the map that show nearly exactly where I should go and what I should do for a quest is a great thing, but it is making me lazy. I started playing MMOs with EQ back in 2001 when getting and actually finishing a quest required more luck and advise from other people than anything else. Back then if you wanted a map you either bought the incredibly inaccurate EQ Atlas or looked it up online.
Do you think this is a sign of things to come for MMOs? I don't think that WoW has added anything like this in yet or if they are planning on it, but because I've gotten so dependent on it I think I really will miss this feature on new games that don't have it.
The good thing about the markers is that because zones in most every game are in the 5 to 10 level range we're going to see the same scenery a lot. It's really not a question if we are going to explore a zone, we'll pretty much go everywhere in it during those times. Having to guess or search online for the location of an NPC or mob doesn't really add anything except for a very small inconvenience for the most part.
The bad thing about it is that if for some reason this was someone's first MMO they aren't really going to be able to transfer much of the quest experience in this game to any other they move on to. A very valuable skill of actually having to explore or search for answers just isn't necessary here.
So in closing...I don't have much of a point. It's a very interesting feature and one that I really enjoy, even though I know it's not the best for me.

Aren't you forgetting the 'Gamble Feature' where occasionally the red circles are utterly inaccurate & you spend ages searching an area that you know is wrong because you trust the map more than your own judgment.

Also, certain maps are so unhelpful they should win prizes. In some of the Greenskin RvR areas, the BOs & keeps are underground where the entrances are via long tunnels that are not marked on the map at all. If you followed the map you could run around in circles for hours while it told you that you should be already there. Just last night, several people in regional chat trying to rush to a keep defence gave up in disgust after a lot of swearing, language filter permitting of course.

To get back to the original point though, does it really matter when looking things up online like the 'Good Old Days' would still be technically cheating? Mythic seem to use the red circles to encourage zone exploration anyway & especially the PQ areas, so it isn't always a bad thing, at least in my opinion.