what WOW offers is that the game is very easy i mean the fact that someone wrote a program that played the game for you is an example of how easy the game is.
Because no one wrote macro bots, hacks and cheats for UO, EQ, DAOC, EVE, AC, SWG...uuuuum, whatever=) But since you can cheat in WOW, it must be so damn easy right? WOW was the first game with bots and cheaters. We all know it. Blizzard invented the interweb too=)
Wheres that bot that lets me get top rankings in the arenas or kill C'Thun or Illidan on my 1st try while watching TV and eating ribs? But I can level up in Eve and make money while AT WORK, without even actually loggin in;) I can advance as well as any other player without ever really playing the game for more than a couple of minutes each month. How easy is that right?
for one most games offer some challenge, WOW is a cakewalk they lead you by the hand to the top levels , when your gear doesn't do well for so and so encounter they add either pvp gear/ quest gear/ craft gear thats far superior just to appease the masses. they go out of their way to make the MMO experience as pain free as possible.....
now granted, this is a good thing. WOW is like MMO light, for the hardcore, even the casual hardcore main stream MMO'r... WOW is boring and not very fun we like a little challenge. at the same time though look at wow's playerbase, children and MMO noobs. what WOW does is what our parents say Weed does... its like a gateway MMO i've seen many many people join other MMO's from WOW and they are like you mean i can really do this... or wow this is hard but fun. the problem isn't WOW its companies not having enough faith in their game, or halfa$$ programming that kills the industry, one thing wow can say over every game out there it runs, install it click the icon and bam you are in game...... i've seen games that patch day is basicly game closed... its happened in wow as well, but not nearly as much as most of the others. WOW caters to its public, most other games cater to the few whining the loudest. prime example of this SWG, possibly the easiest space mmo franchise yet sony screwed the pooch by listening to a few whining people that wanted to be uber jedi now... its a shadow of what it could have been. hell its a shadow of an MMO. EQII vanguard, AOC, WAR all these games are fantastic in their own right, they all have somthing to offer, yet they can't compeat with WOW because of one thing... for the most part ... they require thought. thats what it really boils down to boys an girls heh wow is easy ... and we humans are incredibly lazy and want as much for as little as we can get.
A yes the content in WoW atm is rather easy but you still have to know what the hell your doing to do any of the raids or heroics. You can't be brain dead. Also back when WoW was hard with 40 man raids it still had the immense numbers to back its number 1 spot. Also ill agree WAR and Vanguard are good games AOC and EQ2 are not.
Alot of WOW haterade going on in this thread. Why? The OP has asked the simple question as to why another game has not been able to grab the market share of an equivilent size that WOW has. How does bashing WOW answer this question? Is the lack of a direct response a result of the fact that most of you have no clue, are too dumb to think about the issue, and just want to use this thread to trash WOW and the so-called WOW Fanbois? Way to digress off topic. If you dont know (which many of you have demonstrated) then stfu and start a seperate "I hate WOW thread" already.
To respond to some of the dumber posts, alot of people love to say WOW is easy mode. The only thing easy mode in WOW is the leveling aspect of the game. This was a deliberate design, they said it many many times, what is the surprise? The game would allow ALL classes to level to max via solo play if so desired. How is it "easy mode" if that was the damn INTENT in the first place? As far as raiding goes, I can tell most of you have purple envy and never made it to that point in the game. WOW has some of the best raid encounter scripts ever written for MMO's, and they are interesting and fresh. So unless you have Sartharion 3D and Malygos 25 ON FARM, please stop talking nonsense. And when Uldar is released it will be even more challenging.
I cant' help but think theres underlying envy for this game. I am sorry if your "niche" hardcore, oh so challenging pos game doesnt have 1/100000th of WOW's subs and you have to run thru empty zones and wait on LFG for an hour to group. Tuff cookies. WOW isnt going anywhere, and if it is topped, it will be by the same people that made it.
I dont mean to flame but sheesh cut the WOW hate already. Its tired. And if you must bash the game, well at leaset offer a positive spin to it. What uber game features would make a game strong enough to grab WOW's market share and be it's rightful competitor? Hummm??
WoW has one of the largest player bases out of any MMO out there. It is one of the most popular and well distributed MMO's as well. Mention the word wow to someone anymore and it isn't used as a word, it has become the game. I think the game has done a great job with putting itself out to people and making itself addictive. It has quite a big grind for people to stay entrenched in the gameplay. It also presents a good ground for PvP, setting up temps, playing with friends, and many other factors. I think WoW overall has made itself a dominant MMO through its players. A game cannot just compete, it has to be the players that compete for the game. If WoW didn't have such a good, addicted player base, then it wouldn't be number one. I don't think there is any game that has produced the type atmosphere wow has and will in that case, never achieve the fame and fortune that WoW has created. I do not personally play WoW, but I know it has dominated the MMO industry. I am personally a current fan of guild wars, which took the grind aspect away from MMO in my opinion. I enjoy a good RPG with a campaign and a good story. Anyways, I think WoW would need a lot to be competed with. It hit the ground running and has kept people addicted ever since. Who wouldn't want to keep fighting and playing to get those rare items and look cool in front of every one =p Content is very important in gaming.
Well since I were quoted like 5 pages ago and I don't intend to quote like tons of people in over 5 pages, I'll rather write a few facts:
- people that say that WoW or any other mmo is the BEST without have played all the available mmos out there fail!
I have tested and played 100+ (or even 150+ I lost the count somewhere =P ) and I still haven't all because there are far more out there. I can tell that there are many other games that are better than WoW in many terms but can't tell they are the Best nor can I say it to ANY mmo out there because I didn't tested or played all available mmos out there.
So everyone that claims that WoW is the Best does it only because of fanboism without looking further because they like the game in my opinion, nothing more and nothing less.
- this discussion started as why wow is this and that and went over to what blizzard does and how blizzard is. I saw however many posters mixing both things with each other a little or a lot so the discussion turned upside down.
Fact is that Blizzard believe it or not mainly managed to make WoW to the most successful game when it comes to subscribers due to Advertisements, Word of Mouth and most of all due to their previous fanbase.
By advertisements I don't mean the newest that are running up and down the whole time now only because they need more subscribers again. I mean the ones since the beginning that were allover the place the whole time.
I remember myself when I was totally excited about it before I made it into the closed beta and later to the open beta because I thought the story will be like in the warcraft series, the gameplay will be awesome and many other things.
After all they had admitted that they took many things from the most successfull mmos out there and build them into their game (at least they were honest in that part a little). However, after I entered the game only to see how much they had fucked up the story that had nothing or very little to do with the warcraft universe, the holes on the bitmaps based graphics of the environment, the gameplay which barely any good in my opinion (except if you were a mmo newbie that were playing a game like this for the first time OR a little kid) and all the other flaws, I was greatly dissappointed.
I gave it another try in the open beta for 2 weeks and the officiall forums were as horrible as the most online players were (except a few good people here and there). Additionaly the VERY linear skill tree and everything around character creation and unbalanced classes they were messing up after each patch was another point so I gave up the game, said goodbye to the few people I knew and could call friends(this was the only hard part) and left there.
I got to know many people at work, in the train and everywhere that were on wow without having a clue what a mmo ever was.
No wonder, every second page of all the gaming magazines were filled with WoW advertisements. Do you think it doesn't work? Well see for yourself cause it does!
- about the guy that says accessability is great, it might be great now but it definately wasn't for a very long time.
I won't go further into the gameplay, its flaws and many other things that are much worse than in other mmos I have played cause I know that the ones that like everything that gets served to them without critisizing anything will fall upon me again. <_<
"So everyone that claims that WoW is the Best does it only because of fanboism without looking further because they like the game in my opinion, nothing more and nothing less."
Huh?
That has nothing to do with..."fanboism"...whatever THAT means.
It is personal opinion..."nothing more and nothing less."
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
"So everyone that claims that WoW is the Best does it only because of fanboism without looking further because they like the game in my opinion, nothing more and nothing less."
Huh? That has nothing to do with..."fanboism"...whatever THAT means. It is personal opinion..."nothing more and nothing less."
"Strangely" I only see most of them not having the term "in my opinion" anywhere in their posts, unlike mine.
Also when someone just posts "WoW is the best" and after someone like me or other critize because we like to look through all colors instead of only black and white they fall upon us, then it is certainly a act that can be called fanboism.
Anyway... I hope that everyone will also try to widen their horizons and perspectives through other available mmos there(most of all the newer people that wow was their only mmo or only tried out 2-3 mmos they found out through advertisements only) and try to look behind the features of a game instead only comparing stuff cause in my opinion this wouldn't only help the companies to hear out a players desire but will also make players to have a wider perspective of gaming in overal.
I think a lot of WoW players are new to computergames and are simply not up to learning a new game, unless its a game that really grabs them from the start. And I guess that WoW is one of the few games that does that.
With my friends Ive noticed that they always are looking for familiar ground in a new MMO. They played WoW for so long, that they complain relatively fast about features not being the same as in WoW.
Another reason is that they approach an MMO as low level entertainment. Features like character development in Anarchy Online or crafting in Vanguard is not seen as fun by them. They are really not interested in having to visit forums for guides. To them a game shouldnt have 'homework'. They also have very busy lives (unlike me) and play WoW to relax. I bet that a lot of players think like this (if not most of them).
So in my opinion, WoW is for the masses. And games like Vanguard, Darkfall etc are for a niche. The rest tries to copy WoW too much, so it wont be fresh enough or enough of an improvement over WoW.
Edit: To put things in perspective. Im convinced that the players who write in MMO forums are way in the minority. In no way it is a representation of the MMO community.
Fact is that Blizzard believe it or not mainly managed to make WoW to the most successful game when it comes to subscribers due to Advertisements, Word of Mouth and most of all due to their previous fanbase. By advertisements I don't mean the newest that are running up and down the whole time now only because they need more subscribers again. I mean the ones since the beginning that were allover the place the whole time.
Allow me to disagree with your 'facts' and the conclusion you draw from them.
Advertising:
EQ2 released within weeks of Warcraft. Each game saturated the market with pre-release hype and advertising. There was very little difference between the coverage of each game. Yet EQ2 was merging servers within a years time and Warcraft could not keep pace with new subscribers. Obviously there was something more to success than simply advertising or else each game would have similar success rates.
Previous fanbase
Again EQ2 had millions of previous and current fans to draw from. Perhaps not the same amount as battlenet, but most of those were subscription paying players either. Star wars, the sims, D&D, Lord of the rings, Warhammer just for example all have massive followings, yet the results are no where near wow. Obviously there is something more than having access to a large potential playerbase.
Word of mouth.
This is where I think things tell the story. Wow gets positive word of mouth, because that game does so many things right. It may not appeal to everyones personal tastes, but the game is well made and entertaining for many people. Thus it gets positive word of mouth. Look at just about any other mmo at release and you see mostly negative reviews, because far to many games release before they are finished or complete. Word of mouth isn't something that can be bought or traded for. It is earned.
(Diablo2) was awarded a spot in the Guinness Book of World Records 2000 edition for being the fastest selling computer game ever sold, with more than 1 million units sold in the first two weeks of availability.
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, and World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King have since surpassed Diablo II's record to become fastest-selling computer games ever at their times of release, according to Blizzard
Blizzard deserves their rep - they make great / fun games
but many fans will buy any new game from a favored game developer
Why WOW is so popular. Low system requirements, simplistic enough that a lot of non gamers play it, and the fact that it is the most poished MMO to date. But i agree, that everyone who has a television has heard of WOW and that doesnt hurt. And dont forget that with success comes the ability to create more content to add to it without being rushed into early releases of xpacs that are not fiinished because of payroll problems. AOC is a good expample of killing a game upon release with the idea that they had to release it right now. Honestly i dont see any smaller companies competing anytime soon. Blizzard has gotten so big that it can afford to put two coats of polish on anything that they develop. Be it Diablo 3, the next MMO or the next WOW xpac. Personally i cant play WOW for over a couple months at a time anymore but i dont see it going away anytime soon.
Fact is that Blizzard believe it or not mainly managed to make WoW to the most successful game when it comes to subscribers due to Advertisements, Word of Mouth and most of all due to their previous fanbase. By advertisements I don't mean the newest that are running up and down the whole time now only because they need more subscribers again. I mean the ones since the beginning that were allover the place the whole time.
Allow me to disagree with your 'facts' and the conclusion you draw from them.
Advertising:
EQ2 released within weeks of Warcraft. Each game saturated the market with pre-release hype and advertising. There was very little difference between the coverage of each game. Yet EQ2 was merging servers within a years time and Warcraft could not keep pace with new subscribers. Obviously there was something more to success than simply advertising or else each game would have similar success rates.
Previous fanbase
Again EQ2 had millions of previous and current fans to draw from. Perhaps not the same amount as battlenet, but most of those were subscription paying players either. Star wars, the sims, D&D, Lord of the rings, Warhammer just for example all have massive followings, yet the results are no where near wow. Obviously there is something more than having access to a large potential playerbase.
Word of mouth.
This is where I think things tell the story. Wow gets positive word of mouth, because that game does so many things right. It may not appeal to everyones personal tastes, but the game is well made and entertaining for many people. Thus it gets positive word of mouth. Look at just about any other mmo at release and you see mostly negative reviews, because far to many games release before they are finished or complete. Word of mouth isn't something that can be bought or traded for. It is earned.
EQ2 was there for years and they had not even ONE spot running to tv and barely any were in the magazines to say the least.
Additionaly EQ2 was mostly for people that had a clue about the lore AND was partially and it wasn't mindless bring me 100 heads from the same person questing like WoW to say the least.
The Word of mouth came mostly through previous fans of the warcraft series and through advertisement before the game were even in the open beta state. Every magazine had on every second site a wow image on it and advertisement, in the tv were running spots the whole time which made people that had previously no clue what a mmo is at all being curious and willing to give it a try!
I know how addicted I was immediately when I played my first mmo. No matter how much it sucked or what did good or wrong I accepted it because it was a whole new experience and I was connected and interacting with 1000s of people from allover the world or at least my land so the game and its features turned out to be of secondary meaning at the end.
The same thing happened to millions of newbies that joined wow and this is definately a fact cause I meet many no matter if they were from work, friends or even strangers. People were like "did you hear about wow?" I was like yes I know it why?
"Well I saw this spot on the tv and someone else said that you connect to so many people and that its soooo cool"
Account made, game played, friends found the rest is history. Do you really thing that this guy or most the others cared about the design or anything else that goes deeper into the detail of the game? Not at all! I even had colleagues that I presented other games later and told them "and? how do you find this one?" and they were like, "ok... wow is not THAT good after all, but I know so many people there, it would be sad to go".
There isn't always the features that make a game stand out and I think that you would agree that no other mmo or barely any mmo ever made advertisements on the tv (at least here in europe they didn't) while blizzard were jumping on our face day and night.
So don't start me with "low requirements" or "great game" and such cause low requirements are offered by many games that have less to no lag compared to what wow used to have and they are also great games and some of them even much better than wow ever was or ever will be. They just doesn't get aknowledged by the wide public because they mostly only advertise over the net on a banner or gaming sites and only partially as also barely on gaming magazines.
Blizzard never made anything original. They however know how to "borrow" parts from different previous games and polish them by placing them together in one game as also how to advertise them well since they have the money for this. Believe it or not, iIt's as simple as that.
You can dissagree as much as you want but then just tell me how many of the games you can find on mmorpgs.com game list ever was on TV or every second page of a magazine no matter if gaming magazine or other and then we can talk further ok?
thats primarily due to Blizzard fans - not Word of Mouth
Because blizzard has a reputation for creating great games maybe? So yes the word of mouth was that blizzard creates great games and everything from beta backed that up.
While EQ2 didn't break sales records it sold several hundred thousand copies during its release. It also had its legions of soe followers and was king of the mmo hill at the time. Yet the results are completely different. Great initial success followed shortly by rapid decline, loss of momentum and server mergers within a year.
People look at warcraft and blame all of these contributing reasons as the main reason for its success, but disregard nearly identical situations with other games that had the complete opposite result.
Obviously there is much more to blizzards success than advertising and previous customers.
Originally posted by Raekon EQ2 was there for years and they had not even ONE spot running to tv and barely any were in the magazines to say the least.
Additionaly EQ2 was mostly for people that had a clue about the lore AND was partially and it wasn't mindless bring me 100 heads from the same person questing like WoW to say the least.
You seem to under the impression that Blizzard was running television ads for warcraft prior to its release. Perhaps I missed it, but warcraft television ads started showing in late 2007 with the shatner/troyner spots.
As for eq2 not advertising much, are you kidding? You didn't see the full size cutouts in stores of Antonia Bayle of Lucan D'lere? For petes sakes they hired Heather Graham and Christopher Lee to head up the voice acting in the game. Soe had an entire division devoted to advertising and marketing mmos, not only for themselves, but other companies that needed a publisher. There was plenty of EQ2 vs Warcraft advertising going on.
I also think you are mistaken with your view of what eq2 was supposed to be. EQ2 was supposed to be the next generation mmo that would dominate the market. That is why soe worked so hard to compete and rush to beat wow to market. It wasn't aimed to be some niche game as you are trying to make it out to be. EQ2 was aimed at capturing a wider and more casual market. Just because it failed to do that doesn't change what it was intended to be.
The question I keep coming back to is, if the key to success of an mmo was simply advertising it, what is holding back so many games from doing just that? It can't be that big of a secret if the posters on mmorpg.com know about it.
thats primarily due to Blizzard fans - not Word of Mouth
Because blizzard has a reputation for creating great games maybe? So yes the word of mouth was that blizzard creates great games and everything from beta backed that up.
thats supporting what I'm saying
as I said, many gamers will buy any new game from a favored Game Developer
Warcraft III beats Diablo2 sales -- selling more than 1 million in the 1st 2 weeks
yes WOW beta had its fans but Blizzard had many *more* fans from their prior games of Diablo/ Warcraft / Starcraft
this is what I believe explains the initial sales,
but its up to the mmo itself, to retain the subscibers and growing your brand name wont help you there
I'm only discounting WOW beta "word of mouth" NOT being primary reason for initial sales
"blizzard gaming" word of mouth has nothing to do with having seen a beta
Originally posted by Raekon EQ2 was there for years and they had not even ONE spot running to tv and barely any were in the magazines to say the least.
Additionaly EQ2 was mostly for people that had a clue about the lore AND was partially and it wasn't mindless bring me 100 heads from the same person questing like WoW to say the least.
I also think you are mistaken with your view of what eq2 was supposed to be. EQ2 was supposed to be the next generation mmo that would dominate the market. That is why soe worked so hard to compete and rush to beat wow to market. It wasn't aimed to be some niche game as you are trying to make it out to be. EQ2 was aimed at capturing a wider and more casual market. Just because it failed to do that doesn't change what it was intended to be.
Correk. I remember Smedley's immortal words around the time they launched EQ2, "WE WILL BURY WOW!" lol
SOE tried going head to head with WOW and got steamrolled instead. I also remember when they ran their "World of Waiting" series of banner ads, some came out right here on mmorpg.com. They were trying to get the ppl stuck on WoW server queues to play EQ2 instead, but that didn't work either.
And to some previous posters who said that Blizzard are #1 because they have unlimited funds to do anything they want, well that is true now, but it certainly wasn't when they launched.
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW. -BarCrow
No man it's all about the game. Blizzard knows how to involve the player emotionally. It's all about reaching the sub-conscious of the player, excellence in every area and attention to detail. On the outside blizzard games simply look like they were fun to make--that the developer enjoyed creating as much as we do playing. Budget? Yeah they have a big budget now but they did a pretty good job when they didn't have the budget.
And to some previous posters who said that Blizzard are #1 because they have unlimited funds to do anything they want, well that is true now, but it certainly wasn't when they launched.
Blizzards mmo had the most expensive budget for its time around 40 million
EQ2's budget was smaller than that - not that it's any excuse
dont need need to be the biggest spender on the block to make a good game
But the OP is not asking what Blizzard is doing right, it is asking what the others need to do right. And the answer is nothing. Blizzard was looking to match EQ at maybe 500k subscribers? Instead they hit a social nerve that led to nearly 12m subscribers.
You can't predict that sort of thing. It is like the Beatles or the Simpsons or Star Wars. Sometimes a piece of art totally breaks out and gets the attention of people to the point that everything else seems small next to it, in popularity, is social attention.
I wouldn't ask for another WoW. I want to see a companies target the fan base that supports good gaming for 5-10 years and allows them to keep the right sized in house staff to provide support and updates.
That number is probably 200-500k depending on statup budget. After that the develper should consider new players gravy.
thats primarily due to Blizzard fans - not Word of Mouth
Because blizzard has a reputation for creating great games maybe? So yes the word of mouth was that blizzard creates great games and everything from beta backed that up.
thats supporting what I'm saying
as I said, many gamers will buy any new game from a favored Game Developer
You discount word of mouth by calling people fans. They are fans, because the word of mouth for blizzard products is that they are great. Yes the fans of the game had an impact, no doubt. It is not the sole reason the game is where it is at today or even during the first year.
The sims is the best selling pc game in the world. So if the logic some people in this thread are claiming is the main reason wow is so successful, then the sims online should be up there also. As well as a number of other IP's and software vendors. It is misleading to point at those reasons for the success of one game and ignore them when they apply to other games that have failed or just not even come a fraction as close to the success.
I think I am just splitting hairs with you Nadia, because I really understand what you are saying and agree with it. There is truth in what you are saying, just not to the degree that some people here seem to think.
I think I am just splitting hairs with you Nadia, because I really understand what you are saying and agree with it. There is truth in what you are saying, just not to the degree that some people here seem to think.
I agree with you
retaining subs is a mmos bread and butter -- and only gameplay will succeed there
OK then in my opinion WOW was so successful because
1) It took a little bit of something from all it's competitors that were around when it was developed and put them together in such a way that it worked well together. While yes it could be disected and frequenty is as to where WOW got it's ideas the trueth is no-one had put everything together in the one package like WOW had. Hence why people left EQ, Uo and the rest of them that were around then.
2) When WOW launched MMO's were still in their infancy in terms of who played them. Most people were willing to look past the glitches and stuff that comes with the launch of a persistant world when you dump 100,000 people all doing stuff that the devs didn't predict people would try and see the potential of the game. Alot of the people in at Beta and Launch were vets who had grown tired of the game they were playing and while WOW wasn't quite as good as those games in terms of class balance and polish in the early days people could see that the devs were working very hard on it and were willing to stick around and see what came of it.
3) Within 12 months WOW was as good as most of it's predacessors who were pretty much starting to try and play catch up by making their games more like WOW. This effectivly meant the people who stuck with their original games were getting annoyed by the introduction of systems and things they didn't want and which the games weren't really designed around so they didn't mesh right so they jumped ship to WOW too which had the systems already and working better than what the competitors because WOW was designed with those systems in mind.
4) Other factors like Warcraft was an established game franchise. If you were into internet gaming at the time which was a relitivly small community at the time there was always 1 person you knew in your circle of online friends who played WOW and would generally say hey you should really check this game out it's pretty cool. These were small parts that added up to a whole of keeping new people trying out the game and staying because there wasn't anything else around that did what WOW did as good as WOW did. Sure most had something they did better than WOW but there was plenty of stuff they did worse than WOW so people stuck with WOW.
5) Before WOW was unleashed upon the unsusspecting MMO scene most devs were happy with subscription numbers that let them pay the bills and keep the game running adding content as and when they could afford to. Hence subscription numbers were fairly low with 100,000 being a pretty impressive number. WOW on the otherhand reached those numbers and then kept adding more and more. When WOW hit 500,000 the big publishers started looking for established MMO's they could buy up and try and grab some of the rapidly growing pie Blizzard was creating and contributing more to my 3rd point. By the time the publishers realised they needed to start from the ground up so to speak it was really to late.
6) Now we come to why WOW is staying where it is for the time being and probably for quite some time to come. Expectations for a new MMO are set way to high by both publishers and the MMO consumer. Not many publishers or consumers are willing to give a new game the time it needs after launch to sort out the stuff you can't sort out until after you release the game to more than a server full of rabid fans who lets face it for the most part are only Beta testing because they want to get a look at the game before anyone else. Sure there are those who take their position of Beta testing seriously but in reality they are the minority. The result is Beta only really catches the most glaring of problems release is where all the little things come to light that add up and make the first 12 months of a just released game feel pretty much a like a paid Beta test. On top of that if you don't have 1,000,000 subscribers after your first 3 months your concidered a failure. It's just completly unrealistic.
All this isn't about bashing WOW or Blizzard. They worked hard to get the game where it is and deserve everything they achieved because of it. I just think the game to get close to WOW is going to come from a unexpected souce possibly an independant developer that slips in under the hype radar. Something that will get a decent enough of a playerbase without alot of hype and expectation that will have room to grow and improve without being jumped on straight out of the gate by people expecting it to be a WOW killer. All of this is my opinion based on how I have observed the industry and is subject to being completly wrong.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
Comments
Because no one wrote macro bots, hacks and cheats for UO, EQ, DAOC, EVE, AC, SWG...uuuuum, whatever=) But since you can cheat in WOW, it must be so damn easy right? WOW was the first game with bots and cheaters. We all know it. Blizzard invented the interweb too=)
Wheres that bot that lets me get top rankings in the arenas or kill C'Thun or Illidan on my 1st try while watching TV and eating ribs? But I can level up in Eve and make money while AT WORK, without even actually loggin in;) I can advance as well as any other player without ever really playing the game for more than a couple of minutes each month. How easy is that right?
A yes the content in WoW atm is rather easy but you still have to know what the hell your doing to do any of the raids or heroics. You can't be brain dead. Also back when WoW was hard with 40 man raids it still had the immense numbers to back its number 1 spot. Also ill agree WAR and Vanguard are good games AOC and EQ2 are not.
Alot of WOW haterade going on in this thread. Why? The OP has asked the simple question as to why another game has not been able to grab the market share of an equivilent size that WOW has. How does bashing WOW answer this question? Is the lack of a direct response a result of the fact that most of you have no clue, are too dumb to think about the issue, and just want to use this thread to trash WOW and the so-called WOW Fanbois? Way to digress off topic. If you dont know (which many of you have demonstrated) then stfu and start a seperate "I hate WOW thread" already.
To respond to some of the dumber posts, alot of people love to say WOW is easy mode. The only thing easy mode in WOW is the leveling aspect of the game. This was a deliberate design, they said it many many times, what is the surprise? The game would allow ALL classes to level to max via solo play if so desired. How is it "easy mode" if that was the damn INTENT in the first place? As far as raiding goes, I can tell most of you have purple envy and never made it to that point in the game. WOW has some of the best raid encounter scripts ever written for MMO's, and they are interesting and fresh. So unless you have Sartharion 3D and Malygos 25 ON FARM, please stop talking nonsense. And when Uldar is released it will be even more challenging.
I cant' help but think theres underlying envy for this game. I am sorry if your "niche" hardcore, oh so challenging pos game doesnt have 1/100000th of WOW's subs and you have to run thru empty zones and wait on LFG for an hour to group. Tuff cookies. WOW isnt going anywhere, and if it is topped, it will be by the same people that made it.
I dont mean to flame but sheesh cut the WOW hate already. Its tired. And if you must bash the game, well at leaset offer a positive spin to it. What uber game features would make a game strong enough to grab WOW's market share and be it's rightful competitor? Hummm??
::Crickets::
Current Games: WOW, EVE Online
WoW has one of the largest player bases out of any MMO out there. It is one of the most popular and well distributed MMO's as well. Mention the word wow to someone anymore and it isn't used as a word, it has become the game. I think the game has done a great job with putting itself out to people and making itself addictive. It has quite a big grind for people to stay entrenched in the gameplay. It also presents a good ground for PvP, setting up temps, playing with friends, and many other factors. I think WoW overall has made itself a dominant MMO through its players. A game cannot just compete, it has to be the players that compete for the game. If WoW didn't have such a good, addicted player base, then it wouldn't be number one. I don't think there is any game that has produced the type atmosphere wow has and will in that case, never achieve the fame and fortune that WoW has created. I do not personally play WoW, but I know it has dominated the MMO industry. I am personally a current fan of guild wars, which took the grind aspect away from MMO in my opinion. I enjoy a good RPG with a campaign and a good story. Anyways, I think WoW would need a lot to be competed with. It hit the ground running and has kept people addicted ever since. Who wouldn't want to keep fighting and playing to get those rare items and look cool in front of every one =p Content is very important in gaming.
Well since I were quoted like 5 pages ago and I don't intend to quote like tons of people in over 5 pages, I'll rather write a few facts:
- people that say that WoW or any other mmo is the BEST without have played all the available mmos out there fail!
I have tested and played 100+ (or even 150+ I lost the count somewhere =P ) and I still haven't all because there are far more out there. I can tell that there are many other games that are better than WoW in many terms but can't tell they are the Best nor can I say it to ANY mmo out there because I didn't tested or played all available mmos out there.
So everyone that claims that WoW is the Best does it only because of fanboism without looking further because they like the game in my opinion, nothing more and nothing less.
- this discussion started as why wow is this and that and went over to what blizzard does and how blizzard is. I saw however many posters mixing both things with each other a little or a lot so the discussion turned upside down.
Fact is that Blizzard believe it or not mainly managed to make WoW to the most successful game when it comes to subscribers due to Advertisements, Word of Mouth and most of all due to their previous fanbase.
By advertisements I don't mean the newest that are running up and down the whole time now only because they need more subscribers again. I mean the ones since the beginning that were allover the place the whole time.
I remember myself when I was totally excited about it before I made it into the closed beta and later to the open beta because I thought the story will be like in the warcraft series, the gameplay will be awesome and many other things.
After all they had admitted that they took many things from the most successfull mmos out there and build them into their game (at least they were honest in that part a little). However, after I entered the game only to see how much they had fucked up the story that had nothing or very little to do with the warcraft universe, the holes on the bitmaps based graphics of the environment, the gameplay which barely any good in my opinion (except if you were a mmo newbie that were playing a game like this for the first time OR a little kid) and all the other flaws, I was greatly dissappointed.
I gave it another try in the open beta for 2 weeks and the officiall forums were as horrible as the most online players were (except a few good people here and there). Additionaly the VERY linear skill tree and everything around character creation and unbalanced classes they were messing up after each patch was another point so I gave up the game, said goodbye to the few people I knew and could call friends(this was the only hard part) and left there.
I got to know many people at work, in the train and everywhere that were on wow without having a clue what a mmo ever was.
No wonder, every second page of all the gaming magazines were filled with WoW advertisements. Do you think it doesn't work? Well see for yourself cause it does!
- about the guy that says accessability is great, it might be great now but it definately wasn't for a very long time.
I won't go further into the gameplay, its flaws and many other things that are much worse than in other mmos I have played cause I know that the ones that like everything that gets served to them without critisizing anything will fall upon me again. <_<
"So everyone that claims that WoW is the Best does it only because of fanboism without looking further because they like the game in my opinion, nothing more and nothing less."
Huh?
That has nothing to do with..."fanboism"...whatever THAT means.
It is personal opinion..."nothing more and nothing less."
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
"Strangely" I only see most of them not having the term "in my opinion" anywhere in their posts, unlike mine.
Also when someone just posts "WoW is the best" and after someone like me or other critize because we like to look through all colors instead of only black and white they fall upon us, then it is certainly a act that can be called fanboism.
Anyway... I hope that everyone will also try to widen their horizons and perspectives through other available mmos there(most of all the newer people that wow was their only mmo or only tried out 2-3 mmos they found out through advertisements only) and try to look behind the features of a game instead only comparing stuff cause in my opinion this wouldn't only help the companies to hear out a players desire but will also make players to have a wider perspective of gaming in overal.
Have fun!
I think a lot of WoW players are new to computergames and are simply not up to learning a new game, unless its a game that really grabs them from the start. And I guess that WoW is one of the few games that does that.
With my friends Ive noticed that they always are looking for familiar ground in a new MMO. They played WoW for so long, that they complain relatively fast about features not being the same as in WoW.
Another reason is that they approach an MMO as low level entertainment. Features like character development in Anarchy Online or crafting in Vanguard is not seen as fun by them. They are really not interested in having to visit forums for guides. To them a game shouldnt have 'homework'. They also have very busy lives (unlike me) and play WoW to relax. I bet that a lot of players think like this (if not most of them).
So in my opinion, WoW is for the masses. And games like Vanguard, Darkfall etc are for a niche. The rest tries to copy WoW too much, so it wont be fresh enough or enough of an improvement over WoW.
Edit: To put things in perspective. Im convinced that the players who write in MMO forums are way in the minority. In no way it is a representation of the MMO community.
Allow me to disagree with your 'facts' and the conclusion you draw from them.
Advertising:
EQ2 released within weeks of Warcraft. Each game saturated the market with pre-release hype and advertising. There was very little difference between the coverage of each game. Yet EQ2 was merging servers within a years time and Warcraft could not keep pace with new subscribers. Obviously there was something more to success than simply advertising or else each game would have similar success rates.
Previous fanbase
Again EQ2 had millions of previous and current fans to draw from. Perhaps not the same amount as battlenet, but most of those were subscription paying players either. Star wars, the sims, D&D, Lord of the rings, Warhammer just for example all have massive followings, yet the results are no where near wow. Obviously there is something more than having access to a large potential playerbase.
Word of mouth.
This is where I think things tell the story. Wow gets positive word of mouth, because that game does so many things right. It may not appeal to everyones personal tastes, but the game is well made and entertaining for many people. Thus it gets positive word of mouth. Look at just about any other mmo at release and you see mostly negative reviews, because far to many games release before they are finished or complete. Word of mouth isn't something that can be bought or traded for. It is earned.
"word of mouth" is the primary reason why WOW broke Day 1 PC sales records ?
for any PC game?
pc.gamespy.com/pc/world-of-warcraft/569888p1.html
thats primarily due to Blizzard fans - not Word of Mouth
maybe people have forgotten
but Diablo2 used to be the best selling PC game -- in the world !
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_II
(Diablo2) was awarded a spot in the Guinness Book of World Records 2000 edition for being the fastest selling computer game ever sold, with more than 1 million units sold in the first two weeks of availability.
Warcraft III: Reign of Chaos, World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade, and World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King have since surpassed Diablo II's record to become fastest-selling computer games ever at their times of release, according to Blizzard
Blizzard deserves their rep - they make great / fun games
but many fans will buy any new game from a favored game developer
EQ2 fan sites
Why WOW is so popular. Low system requirements, simplistic enough that a lot of non gamers play it, and the fact that it is the most poished MMO to date. But i agree, that everyone who has a television has heard of WOW and that doesnt hurt. And dont forget that with success comes the ability to create more content to add to it without being rushed into early releases of xpacs that are not fiinished because of payroll problems. AOC is a good expample of killing a game upon release with the idea that they had to release it right now. Honestly i dont see any smaller companies competing anytime soon. Blizzard has gotten so big that it can afford to put two coats of polish on anything that they develop. Be it Diablo 3, the next MMO or the next WOW xpac. Personally i cant play WOW for over a couple months at a time anymore but i dont see it going away anytime soon.
I would go one step further and say no one does PC games as well as Blizzard
Diablo2 bar none - is still the best selling action RPG available
other games were similar like Titans Quest or Dungeon Siege, but neither ever came close in popularity
then theres Warcraft and Starcraft -- RTS games that havent seen any competition for sales
some RTS games may be better but not for sales
Personally, I had no interest in RTS games, until I tried Warcraft 2
EQ2 fan sites
Allow me to disagree with your 'facts' and the conclusion you draw from them.
Advertising:
EQ2 released within weeks of Warcraft. Each game saturated the market with pre-release hype and advertising. There was very little difference between the coverage of each game. Yet EQ2 was merging servers within a years time and Warcraft could not keep pace with new subscribers. Obviously there was something more to success than simply advertising or else each game would have similar success rates.
Previous fanbase
Again EQ2 had millions of previous and current fans to draw from. Perhaps not the same amount as battlenet, but most of those were subscription paying players either. Star wars, the sims, D&D, Lord of the rings, Warhammer just for example all have massive followings, yet the results are no where near wow. Obviously there is something more than having access to a large potential playerbase.
Word of mouth.
This is where I think things tell the story. Wow gets positive word of mouth, because that game does so many things right. It may not appeal to everyones personal tastes, but the game is well made and entertaining for many people. Thus it gets positive word of mouth. Look at just about any other mmo at release and you see mostly negative reviews, because far to many games release before they are finished or complete. Word of mouth isn't something that can be bought or traded for. It is earned.
EQ2 was there for years and they had not even ONE spot running to tv and barely any were in the magazines to say the least.
Additionaly EQ2 was mostly for people that had a clue about the lore AND was partially and it wasn't mindless bring me 100 heads from the same person questing like WoW to say the least.
The Word of mouth came mostly through previous fans of the warcraft series and through advertisement before the game were even in the open beta state. Every magazine had on every second site a wow image on it and advertisement, in the tv were running spots the whole time which made people that had previously no clue what a mmo is at all being curious and willing to give it a try!
I know how addicted I was immediately when I played my first mmo. No matter how much it sucked or what did good or wrong I accepted it because it was a whole new experience and I was connected and interacting with 1000s of people from allover the world or at least my land so the game and its features turned out to be of secondary meaning at the end.
The same thing happened to millions of newbies that joined wow and this is definately a fact cause I meet many no matter if they were from work, friends or even strangers. People were like "did you hear about wow?" I was like yes I know it why?
"Well I saw this spot on the tv and someone else said that you connect to so many people and that its soooo cool"
Account made, game played, friends found the rest is history. Do you really thing that this guy or most the others cared about the design or anything else that goes deeper into the detail of the game? Not at all! I even had colleagues that I presented other games later and told them "and? how do you find this one?" and they were like, "ok... wow is not THAT good after all, but I know so many people there, it would be sad to go".
There isn't always the features that make a game stand out and I think that you would agree that no other mmo or barely any mmo ever made advertisements on the tv (at least here in europe they didn't) while blizzard were jumping on our face day and night.
So don't start me with "low requirements" or "great game" and such cause low requirements are offered by many games that have less to no lag compared to what wow used to have and they are also great games and some of them even much better than wow ever was or ever will be. They just doesn't get aknowledged by the wide public because they mostly only advertise over the net on a banner or gaming sites and only partially as also barely on gaming magazines.
Blizzard never made anything original. They however know how to "borrow" parts from different previous games and polish them by placing them together in one game as also how to advertise them well since they have the money for this. Believe it or not, iIt's as simple as that.
You can dissagree as much as you want but then just tell me how many of the games you can find on mmorpgs.com game list ever was on TV or every second page of a magazine no matter if gaming magazine or other and then we can talk further ok?
There will NEVER be a MMO with same kind of success as WoW.
Reason for WoWs success is that Warcraft as a trademark had hundreds of millions of zealous followers worldwide long before WoW was announced.
Because blizzard has a reputation for creating great games maybe? So yes the word of mouth was that blizzard creates great games and everything from beta backed that up.
While EQ2 didn't break sales records it sold several hundred thousand copies during its release. It also had its legions of soe followers and was king of the mmo hill at the time. Yet the results are completely different. Great initial success followed shortly by rapid decline, loss of momentum and server mergers within a year.
People look at warcraft and blame all of these contributing reasons as the main reason for its success, but disregard nearly identical situations with other games that had the complete opposite result.
Obviously there is much more to blizzards success than advertising and previous customers.
You seem to under the impression that Blizzard was running television ads for warcraft prior to its release. Perhaps I missed it, but warcraft television ads started showing in late 2007 with the shatner/troyner spots.
As for eq2 not advertising much, are you kidding? You didn't see the full size cutouts in stores of Antonia Bayle of Lucan D'lere? For petes sakes they hired Heather Graham and Christopher Lee to head up the voice acting in the game. Soe had an entire division devoted to advertising and marketing mmos, not only for themselves, but other companies that needed a publisher. There was plenty of EQ2 vs Warcraft advertising going on.
I also think you are mistaken with your view of what eq2 was supposed to be. EQ2 was supposed to be the next generation mmo that would dominate the market. That is why soe worked so hard to compete and rush to beat wow to market. It wasn't aimed to be some niche game as you are trying to make it out to be. EQ2 was aimed at capturing a wider and more casual market. Just because it failed to do that doesn't change what it was intended to be.
The question I keep coming back to is, if the key to success of an mmo was simply advertising it, what is holding back so many games from doing just that? It can't be that big of a secret if the posters on mmorpg.com know about it.
Because blizzard has a reputation for creating great games maybe? So yes the word of mouth was that blizzard creates great games and everything from beta backed that up.
thats supporting what I'm saying
as I said, many gamers will buy any new game from a favored Game Developer
Warcraft III beats Diablo2 sales -- selling more than 1 million in the 1st 2 weeks
yes WOW beta had its fans but Blizzard had many *more* fans from their prior games of Diablo/ Warcraft / Starcraft
this is what I believe explains the initial sales,
but its up to the mmo itself, to retain the subscibers and growing your brand name wont help you there
I'm only discounting WOW beta "word of mouth" NOT being primary reason for initial sales
"blizzard gaming" word of mouth has nothing to do with having seen a beta
EQ2 fan sites
Therefore I can't wait for the new MMORPG of Blizzard, succeeder of WOW (or just running along it)
I also think you are mistaken with your view of what eq2 was supposed to be. EQ2 was supposed to be the next generation mmo that would dominate the market. That is why soe worked so hard to compete and rush to beat wow to market. It wasn't aimed to be some niche game as you are trying to make it out to be. EQ2 was aimed at capturing a wider and more casual market. Just because it failed to do that doesn't change what it was intended to be.
Correk. I remember Smedley's immortal words around the time they launched EQ2, "WE WILL BURY WOW!" lol
SOE tried going head to head with WOW and got steamrolled instead. I also remember when they ran their "World of Waiting" series of banner ads, some came out right here on mmorpg.com. They were trying to get the ppl stuck on WoW server queues to play EQ2 instead, but that didn't work either.
And to some previous posters who said that Blizzard are #1 because they have unlimited funds to do anything they want, well that is true now, but it certainly wasn't when they launched.
I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
No man it's all about the game. Blizzard knows how to involve the player emotionally. It's all about reaching the sub-conscious of the player, excellence in every area and attention to detail. On the outside blizzard games simply look like they were fun to make--that the developer enjoyed creating as much as we do playing. Budget? Yeah they have a big budget now but they did a pretty good job when they didn't have the budget.
Blizzards mmo had the most expensive budget for its time around 40 million
EQ2's budget was smaller than that - not that it's any excuse
dont need need to be the biggest spender on the block to make a good game
(cough Tabula Rasa cough)
EQ2 fan sites
Yes, Blizzard does it right.
But the OP is not asking what Blizzard is doing right, it is asking what the others need to do right. And the answer is nothing. Blizzard was looking to match EQ at maybe 500k subscribers? Instead they hit a social nerve that led to nearly 12m subscribers.
You can't predict that sort of thing. It is like the Beatles or the Simpsons or Star Wars. Sometimes a piece of art totally breaks out and gets the attention of people to the point that everything else seems small next to it, in popularity, is social attention.
I wouldn't ask for another WoW. I want to see a companies target the fan base that supports good gaming for 5-10 years and allows them to keep the right sized in house staff to provide support and updates.
That number is probably 200-500k depending on statup budget. After that the develper should consider new players gravy.
Because blizzard has a reputation for creating great games maybe? So yes the word of mouth was that blizzard creates great games and everything from beta backed that up.
thats supporting what I'm saying
as I said, many gamers will buy any new game from a favored Game Developer
You discount word of mouth by calling people fans. They are fans, because the word of mouth for blizzard products is that they are great. Yes the fans of the game had an impact, no doubt. It is not the sole reason the game is where it is at today or even during the first year.
The sims is the best selling pc game in the world. So if the logic some people in this thread are claiming is the main reason wow is so successful, then the sims online should be up there also. As well as a number of other IP's and software vendors. It is misleading to point at those reasons for the success of one game and ignore them when they apply to other games that have failed or just not even come a fraction as close to the success.
I think I am just splitting hairs with you Nadia, because I really understand what you are saying and agree with it. There is truth in what you are saying, just not to the degree that some people here seem to think.
I agree with you
retaining subs is a mmos bread and butter -- and only gameplay will succeed there
not advertisting, not liking past games
EQ2 fan sites
OK then in my opinion WOW was so successful because
1) It took a little bit of something from all it's competitors that were around when it was developed and put them together in such a way that it worked well together. While yes it could be disected and frequenty is as to where WOW got it's ideas the trueth is no-one had put everything together in the one package like WOW had. Hence why people left EQ, Uo and the rest of them that were around then.
2) When WOW launched MMO's were still in their infancy in terms of who played them. Most people were willing to look past the glitches and stuff that comes with the launch of a persistant world when you dump 100,000 people all doing stuff that the devs didn't predict people would try and see the potential of the game. Alot of the people in at Beta and Launch were vets who had grown tired of the game they were playing and while WOW wasn't quite as good as those games in terms of class balance and polish in the early days people could see that the devs were working very hard on it and were willing to stick around and see what came of it.
3) Within 12 months WOW was as good as most of it's predacessors who were pretty much starting to try and play catch up by making their games more like WOW. This effectivly meant the people who stuck with their original games were getting annoyed by the introduction of systems and things they didn't want and which the games weren't really designed around so they didn't mesh right so they jumped ship to WOW too which had the systems already and working better than what the competitors because WOW was designed with those systems in mind.
4) Other factors like Warcraft was an established game franchise. If you were into internet gaming at the time which was a relitivly small community at the time there was always 1 person you knew in your circle of online friends who played WOW and would generally say hey you should really check this game out it's pretty cool. These were small parts that added up to a whole of keeping new people trying out the game and staying because there wasn't anything else around that did what WOW did as good as WOW did. Sure most had something they did better than WOW but there was plenty of stuff they did worse than WOW so people stuck with WOW.
5) Before WOW was unleashed upon the unsusspecting MMO scene most devs were happy with subscription numbers that let them pay the bills and keep the game running adding content as and when they could afford to. Hence subscription numbers were fairly low with 100,000 being a pretty impressive number. WOW on the otherhand reached those numbers and then kept adding more and more. When WOW hit 500,000 the big publishers started looking for established MMO's they could buy up and try and grab some of the rapidly growing pie Blizzard was creating and contributing more to my 3rd point. By the time the publishers realised they needed to start from the ground up so to speak it was really to late.
6) Now we come to why WOW is staying where it is for the time being and probably for quite some time to come. Expectations for a new MMO are set way to high by both publishers and the MMO consumer. Not many publishers or consumers are willing to give a new game the time it needs after launch to sort out the stuff you can't sort out until after you release the game to more than a server full of rabid fans who lets face it for the most part are only Beta testing because they want to get a look at the game before anyone else. Sure there are those who take their position of Beta testing seriously but in reality they are the minority. The result is Beta only really catches the most glaring of problems release is where all the little things come to light that add up and make the first 12 months of a just released game feel pretty much a like a paid Beta test. On top of that if you don't have 1,000,000 subscribers after your first 3 months your concidered a failure. It's just completly unrealistic.
All this isn't about bashing WOW or Blizzard. They worked hard to get the game where it is and deserve everything they achieved because of it. I just think the game to get close to WOW is going to come from a unexpected souce possibly an independant developer that slips in under the hype radar. Something that will get a decent enough of a playerbase without alot of hype and expectation that will have room to grow and improve without being jumped on straight out of the gate by people expecting it to be a WOW killer. All of this is my opinion based on how I have observed the industry and is subject to being completly wrong.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.