I was using a scientific approach to say atheists are hypocritical. I said that they believe there is no god and therefor they believe something without proof.
There is no scientific approach in your statements. Not all athiests are the same, nor are all agnostics. You just like to pretend that you're all intelligent and go about your "scientific approach" by ignoring those who don't fit into your perfectly wrong idea.
For some athiests, there is no god. It's not a belief, it's a statement of fact. It's the difference between "I believe there is air to breathe around me" and "there is air around me that I can breathe." You don't go out of your way to follow or believe anything, it's simply the way the world is.
As for agnostics, of the dozen or so I've known who actually know they're agnostic (I've met quite a few athiests who are really agnostic, but just don't realize it), each and every one of us defines our view of the world differently. For some, belief is a part of it. For others, fact and reality is a part of it. It varies so much that it's actually quite enlightening to be within a group of people who are all working towards the same end by following different paths.
I do understand where you are coming from. It is just as illogical to claim that a deity exists as it is to claim that a deity does not exist. It is impossible to prove either claim. A premise cannot be proven true just because it has yet to be proven false, and nor can a premise be proven false just because it has yet to be proven true. That is an argument from ignorance fallacy. Most atheists accept the fact that it is impossible to logically disprove the existence of God, so instead, turn to rationalism or empiricism - or a combination of the two (which is most common). Though it is hypocritical for an atheist to criticize a theist using "logic" as their reason, it is not hypocritical to disbelieve in a deity for logical reasons. Personally, I have read, seen, heard, and written many logical syllogisms pertaining to the existence or disexistence (can't think of another word.. been writing for hours, and its 3am) of God. I'll probably post some tomorrow. Just for clarity issues, some atheists only claim themselves as atheists for lack of better word. Personally, I have some views that many atheists to not suscribe to. I have come up with philosophy on the subject that may or may not have been in existence before I perceived the idea, and have picked up many different views from different philosophies on the subject.
Yes, well-said.
Impossible to prove either way, so stop using the Vulcan logic here and attempting to debunk each other.
Just because they call it a "church" of Atheism doesn't make it religious. You read a bit further into it and you see it's because of religion in weddings that they created it. They also call it a "society" which is quite a bit different from a religion.
It is all based around ministers and their roles. They want non- religious ministers rather than rel;igious. Also in the UK you can already get non religious weddings at a registry office where religion is not even allowed to be mentioned. It's a CIVIL ceremony.
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Just because they call it a "church" of Atheism doesn't make it religious. You read a bit further into it and you see it's because of religion in weddings that they created it. They also call it a "society" which is quite a bit different from a religion. It is all based around ministers and their roles. They want non- religious ministers rather than rel;igious. Also in the UK you can already get non religious weddings at a registry office where religion is not even allowed to be mentioned. It's a CIVIL ceremony.
No the real question is, are they claiming relugus tax exemption?
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
I think Atheists are hyprocites for criticzing people who believe in god when they too believe in something.. the absence of god.
Agnostics believe there could or could not be a god. They don't believe in anything.
Atheists do believe in something - even if it's the absence of god/s Believing in something when there is no proof whether it is the absence or prescense of god... is stupid in terms of logic. YOU HAVE NO PROOF
So atheists are hypocrites for criticizing people who believe in god when atheists themselves have beliefs with no logic to back those beliefs up.
Sorry to inform you, but the world isn't black and white like that.
It's all about the reason why people believe in the things to do. Your accussation that atheists have no logic to back that belief up is completely incorrect, and as long as you keep making yourelf believe that, you'll never understand why atheist don't believe in god.
The reason why Atheists don't believe in God is because there is no evidence for one. This is logic, if there is no evidence for something, it is illogical to believe in that.
Theists, however, believe because they want to believe, don't understand that the "evidence" they have really isn't evidence at all, or other reasons. None of them, however, are build upon, and thats why atheists aren't hypocrites when they say these things.
Also Xexima, saying there is no god is not illogical.
"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."
The argument "Well you can't disprove" is illogical. You can't prove something does not exist, but that doesn't mean that believing in something suddenly becomes logical.
It's actually quite shocking people still think "you can't disprove..." is a valid argument, imagine if we apply this ridiculous rule to our entire society, imagine if the court said to you: "Well you can't disprove you never killed that cat 4 years ago, so I'm sending you to jail"
I do agree with the celestrial pot analogy, but it is not technically "logic." Logically, we cannot prove that God does or does not exist, but we can give valid reasoning as to why we should doubt the existence of a diety, or anything that has yet to be proved true or false. It is the theory of skepticism. There is no empirical evidence for the existence of a diety, and nor is there a rationalist reasoning for the existence of a deity. I do not understand why people do not doubt the existence of a God, since people doubt just about everything else. If I were to say I have a $100,000 in the bank, the bank manager would doubt me when I ask to withdraw it. He would look for evidence stating that I do have that money in the bank. The same goes for just about any other piece of knowledge one can come up with. Just saying that something exists, without the production of any evidence for its existence, does not mean it exists - and does not mean we should believe it exists.
I've always thought of the matter as such: We live in a very large universe, there are most likely more advanced civilizations than us, some of these civilizations may be so advanced as to be godlike from our perspective, therefore, it would make sense to, if not believe in, at least to not discount the possibility of a God or gods. Perhaps not Christian God, but I'd say there's a fair chance that there's got to be some kind of godlike beings running around.
Anyway.. no skin off my back if there is- if there's a God, there's a God, and if there's not, then there's not. I'll tolerate you if you tolerate me.. and if not, then.. there's gonna be problems.
I was using a scientific approach to say atheists are hypocritical. I said that they believe there is no god and therefor they believe something without proof. sure you guys went into semantics about how atheism is a belief system and not a religion... but that is what I was calling hypocritical - both religious and atheist believe something with no proof. I know why this thread has got such an uproar. Under a scientific approach I can prove the rebel flag is a racist symbol. Will everybody agree? obviously not. and yes the uproar continued Now as for people saying they lean more towards atheism (believing there is no god (my definition which many people agree on) than agnosticism (god is indeterminite)... I understand how you could believe there is no god (even without proof) since I don't believe dragons ever existed and the odds that they did would have to be very very small. So if I had to choose between believing in god or not, I would go with not, simply because of the odds that I make up in my mind. But, I'm agnostic, and there is more choices than either believing in god, or not believing in god. I think it is possible either way even if I would lean towards god not existing. no matter how much I lean towards atheism being the truth rather than the existence of god - Im still always going to claim to be agnostic because gods existence is indeterminable. you atheists can stick with that word but you know as well as I do that the existence of god is indeterminable.
I was using a scientific approach to say atheists are hypocritical. I said that they believe there is no god and therefor they believe something without proof. sure you guys went into semantics about how atheism is a belief system and not a religion... but that is what I was calling hypocritical - both religious and atheist believe something with no proof. I know why this thread has got such an uproar. Under a scientific approach I can prove the rebel flag is a racist symbol. Will everybody agree? obviously not. and yes the uproar continued Now as for people saying they lean more towards atheism (believing there is no god (my definition which many people agree on) than agnosticism (god is indeterminite)... I understand how you could believe there is no god (even without proof) since I don't believe dragons ever existed and the odds that they did would have to be very very small. So if I had to choose between believing in god or not, I would go with not, simply because of the odds that I make up in my mind. But, I'm agnostic, and there is more choices than either believing in god, or not believing in god. I think it is possible either way even if I would lean towards god not existing. no matter how much I lean towards atheism being the truth rather than the existence of god - Im still always going to claim to be agnostic because gods existence is indeterminable. you atheists can stick with that word but you know as well as I do that the existence of god is indeterminable.
A majority of atheists simply take the next logical step.
If something is not falsifiable, it is highly questionable what impact it would have on the system it inhabits.
Lacking any real information about the existence of a deity, and due to the fact that it lacks falsifiability, it is scientifically reasonable to tentatively discount its existence until new information is available.
This is 'weak atheism.'
Weak Atheism and Agnosticism are the only conclusions one can draw using current information, scientific processes, and non-assumptive logical reasoning.
See russel's teapot, which contrary to statements in this thread, is very much a logical response.
You are saying that atheists are hypocritical by attempting to use the label they use to describe their belief to form a blanket statement about them. Atheists are not an organized body like a religion. There is no set of agreed-upon principles of atheism. Atheism merely denotes the lack of belief in gods. The term by itself is often misused, and does not describe particularly how strongly an individual feels about the subject, or how they came to the conclusion.
Edit: And to head off the use of the term 'belief', any conclusion an individual draws about the world around them is a belief. I should hope you wouldn't call those who 'believe' in gravity, the shape of the earth, or the structure of an atom members of distinct religions.
"I do not believe that gods exist given current information, but I do not discount the possibility of gods existing." This is a logical statement.
"I do not believe that gods exist, they cannot exist, they do not exist, period." This is not a logical statement.
I won't get into the 'atheism is a religion' argument. I've already seen how ignorant and obstinate some of the proponents of that idea tend to be when it comes to debate. It has already been thoroughly put down in this thread anyways, I see, though I wouldn't be surprised if they chose to ignore it (again).
i see more athiests preaching on this board about how they are right then any other religion. Does that qualify it as a religion?
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
im an Agnostics i think its unecessary to judge others' beliefs whether they believe in god or not. sometimes i think sth is done by luck or god helps me but most of time i think things are sucessful because of the human's effort.
ok .... before anyone else takes my post seriously .....
i wasnt serious, or atleast i wasnt serious about the question of athiest being a religion.
I do see more athiests preaching about they are right then every other religion.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
ok .... before anyone else takes my post seriously .....
i wasnt serious, or atleast i wasnt serious about the question of athiest being a religion. I do see more athiests preaching about they are right then every other religion.
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching? Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
ok .... before anyone else takes my post seriously .....
i wasnt serious, or atleast i wasnt serious about the question of athiest being a religion. I do see more athiests preaching about they are right then every other religion.
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
ok .... before anyone else takes my post seriously .....
i wasnt serious, or atleast i wasnt serious about the question of athiest being a religion. I do see more athiests preaching about they are right then every other religion.
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
It was a discussion about atheism and religion. Am I supposed to know automatically when you make a flippant throwaway comment which has relevence to the question being posed? I made know assumptions. I was responding to your comments. If you don't like being picked up on them then make sure that you mention it as a joke.
As to hearing more preaching from Atheists than Religions in real life.......well where do you live as I find that VERY hard to believe. Even on these boards it seems to be a 50/50 split.
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Why is it all of these religious threads are made by religious people to put down other peoples beleifs?
There is prolly a god of some kind out there...but I doubt very much it cares about us. We are just a flyshit in a pile of cowmanure which we call the universe.
We'll find out when we are all dead who was right n who was wrong.
ok .... before anyone else takes my post seriously .....
i wasnt serious, or atleast i wasnt serious about the question of athiest being a religion. I do see more athiests preaching about they are right then every other religion.
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
It was a discussion about atheism and religion. Am I supposed to know automatically when you make a flippant throwaway comment which has relevence to the question being posed? I made know assumptions. I was responding to your comments. If you don't like being picked up on them then make sure that you mention it as a joke.
As to hearing more preaching from Atheists than Religions in real life.......well where do you live as I find that VERY hard to believe. Even on these boards it seems to be a 50/50 split.
Bring up God around any athiest and they just wont shut up.
Honestly I cant rember the last time a "Wittnes" came to my door But I can point out 2 times this year at the collage some athiest going apeshit just because i brought up God.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
Well generally the status quo for anything to exist, it has to be proven, otherwise the position normally held is that it doesn't.
I do however take equal offense to rabid atheists who slam religion and faith and constantly try to thwart religious symbolism and tradition, as well as fundamentalists who damn non believers.
ok .... before anyone else takes my post seriously .....
i wasnt serious, or atleast i wasnt serious about the question of athiest being a religion. I do see more athiests preaching about they are right then every other religion.
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
It was a discussion about atheism and religion. Am I supposed to know automatically when you make a flippant throwaway comment which has relevence to the question being posed? I made know assumptions. I was responding to your comments. If you don't like being picked up on them then make sure that you mention it as a joke.
As to hearing more preaching from Atheists than Religions in real life.......well where do you live as I find that VERY hard to believe. Even on these boards it seems to be a 50/50 split.
Bring up God around any athiest and they just wont shut up.
Honestly I cant rember the last time a "Wittnes" came to my door But I can point out 2 times this year at the collage some athiest going apeshit just because i brought up God.
Oh my, sounds like someone is tired of those 'uppity' Atheists who don't know their place in society.
So, are we to assume you simply 'mentioned' god, or did you jam some form of your religious view down the class's or Atheist's throat?
I'm guessing you were offensive in some way, and probably got what you deserved. Of course, you'll slant your story to make it sound like you did nothing wrong and the Atheist was irrational with anger. So, ignore the fact that I asked you a question, you'll just lie and distort the circumstances.
Frankly, I'm tired of people and their anecdotal evidence.
ok .... before anyone else takes my post seriously .....
i wasnt serious, or atleast i wasnt serious about the question of athiest being a religion. I do see more athiests preaching about they are right then every other religion.
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
It was a discussion about atheism and religion. Am I supposed to know automatically when you make a flippant throwaway comment which has relevence to the question being posed? I made know assumptions. I was responding to your comments. If you don't like being picked up on them then make sure that you mention it as a joke.
As to hearing more preaching from Atheists than Religions in real life.......well where do you live as I find that VERY hard to believe. Even on these boards it seems to be a 50/50 split.
Bring up God around any athiest and they just wont shut up.
Honestly I cant rember the last time a "Wittnes" came to my door But I can point out 2 times this year at the collage some athiest going apeshit just because i brought up God.
Oh my, sounds like someone is tired of those 'uppity' Atheists who don't know their place in society.
So, are we to assume you simply 'mentioned' god, or did you jam some form of your religious view down the class's or Atheist's throat?
I'm guessing you were offensive in some way, and probably got what you deserved. Of course, you'll slant your story to make it sound like you did nothing wrong and the Atheist was irrational with anger. So, ignore the fact that I asked you a question, you'll just lie and distort the circumstances.
Frankly, I'm tired of people and their anecdotal evidence.
- LC
you dont need to jam a religious view down there throat or anything. I've run into a few athiests where if i or someone else mentions god they get all upset and they always make sure to explain their point of view and also explain how wrong everyone else is. And when i mean mention god, i mean making a statement about something happening, not trying to "convert" the other person. Seems like your stereotype isnt seeing eye to eye with everyone's encounters with athiests.
Although it can go both ways. I've heard of people running into more radical christians and/or muslims. It varies from person to person really, and if you cant really accept that, then i believe its safe to say that you are about as ignorant as anyone who gets all upset and bothered with the mentioning of 1 word.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
ok .... before anyone else takes my post seriously .....
i wasnt serious, or atleast i wasnt serious about the question of athiest being a religion. I do see more athiests preaching about they are right then every other religion.
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
It was a discussion about atheism and religion. Am I supposed to know automatically when you make a flippant throwaway comment which has relevence to the question being posed? I made know assumptions. I was responding to your comments. If you don't like being picked up on them then make sure that you mention it as a joke.
As to hearing more preaching from Atheists than Religions in real life.......well where do you live as I find that VERY hard to believe. Even on these boards it seems to be a 50/50 split.
Bring up God around any athiest and they just wont shut up.
Honestly I cant rember the last time a "Wittnes" came to my door But I can point out 2 times this year at the collage some athiest going apeshit just because i brought up God.
Oh my, sounds like someone is tired of those 'uppity' Atheists who don't know their place in society.
So, are we to assume you simply 'mentioned' god, or did you jam some form of your religious view down the class's or Atheist's throat?
I'm guessing you were offensive in some way, and probably got what you deserved. Of course, you'll slant your story to make it sound like you did nothing wrong and the Atheist was irrational with anger. So, ignore the fact that I asked you a question, you'll just lie and distort the circumstances.
Frankly, I'm tired of people and their anecdotal evidence.
- LC
you dont need to jam a religious view down there throat or anything. I've run into a few athiests where if i or someone else mentions god they get all upset and they always make sure to explain their point of view and also explain how wrong everyone else is. And when i mean mention god, i mean making a statement about something happening, not trying to "convert" the other person. Seems like your stereotype isnt seeing eye to eye with everyone's encounters with athiests.
Although it can go both ways. I've heard of people running into more radical christians and/or muslims. It varies from person to person really, and if you cant really accept that, then i believe its safe to say that you are about as ignorant as anyone who gets all upset and bothered with the mentioning of 1 word.
I accept that it might happen, I just doubt the previous posters 'innocence'. The typical situation is that people do not become angry unless provoked. If a religious person only meets 'angry' atheists, then I question their harmless 'mentions' of god -- they are usually to blame for other peoples reactions. And, of course, vice versa.
I have met a few Christians who are angry and want to argue, but the majority have not been such. If I had said, "Bring up Atheism around ANY Christian, and they just won't shut up.", then you should question my claim. As I question the previous posters claim. I think he is exaggerating. Don't you?
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Comments
There is no scientific approach in your statements. Not all athiests are the same, nor are all agnostics. You just like to pretend that you're all intelligent and go about your "scientific approach" by ignoring those who don't fit into your perfectly wrong idea.
For some athiests, there is no god. It's not a belief, it's a statement of fact. It's the difference between "I believe there is air to breathe around me" and "there is air around me that I can breathe." You don't go out of your way to follow or believe anything, it's simply the way the world is.
As for agnostics, of the dozen or so I've known who actually know they're agnostic (I've met quite a few athiests who are really agnostic, but just don't realize it), each and every one of us defines our view of the world differently. For some, belief is a part of it. For others, fact and reality is a part of it. It varies so much that it's actually quite enlightening to be within a group of people who are all working towards the same end by following different paths.
Yes, well-said.
Impossible to prove either way, so stop using the Vulcan logic here and attempting to debunk each other.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
firstchurchofatheism.com/
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
Just because they call it a "church" of Atheism doesn't make it religious. You read a bit further into it and you see it's because of religion in weddings that they created it. They also call it a "society" which is quite a bit different from a religion.
It is all based around ministers and their roles. They want non- religious ministers rather than rel;igious. Also in the UK you can already get non religious weddings at a registry office where religion is not even allowed to be mentioned. It's a CIVIL ceremony.
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
No the real question is, are they claiming relugus tax exemption?
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Sorry to inform you, but the world isn't black and white like that.
It's all about the reason why people believe in the things to do. Your accussation that atheists have no logic to back that belief up is completely incorrect, and as long as you keep making yourelf believe that, you'll never understand why atheist don't believe in god.
The reason why Atheists don't believe in God is because there is no evidence for one. This is logic, if there is no evidence for something, it is illogical to believe in that.
Theists, however, believe because they want to believe, don't understand that the "evidence" they have really isn't evidence at all, or other reasons. None of them, however, are build upon, and thats why atheists aren't hypocrites when they say these things.
Also Xexima, saying there is no god is not illogical.
I'm going to post this part again once more.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russels_teapot
"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."
The argument "Well you can't disprove" is illogical. You can't prove something does not exist, but that doesn't mean that believing in something suddenly becomes logical.
It's actually quite shocking people still think "you can't disprove..." is a valid argument, imagine if we apply this ridiculous rule to our entire society, imagine if the court said to you: "Well you can't disprove you never killed that cat 4 years ago, so I'm sending you to jail"
I do agree with the celestrial pot analogy, but it is not technically "logic." Logically, we cannot prove that God does or does not exist, but we can give valid reasoning as to why we should doubt the existence of a diety, or anything that has yet to be proved true or false. It is the theory of skepticism. There is no empirical evidence for the existence of a diety, and nor is there a rationalist reasoning for the existence of a deity. I do not understand why people do not doubt the existence of a God, since people doubt just about everything else. If I were to say I have a $100,000 in the bank, the bank manager would doubt me when I ask to withdraw it. He would look for evidence stating that I do have that money in the bank. The same goes for just about any other piece of knowledge one can come up with. Just saying that something exists, without the production of any evidence for its existence, does not mean it exists - and does not mean we should believe it exists.
I've always thought of the matter as such: We live in a very large universe, there are most likely more advanced civilizations than us, some of these civilizations may be so advanced as to be godlike from our perspective, therefore, it would make sense to, if not believe in, at least to not discount the possibility of a God or gods. Perhaps not Christian God, but I'd say there's a fair chance that there's got to be some kind of godlike beings running around.
Anyway.. no skin off my back if there is- if there's a God, there's a God, and if there's not, then there's not. I'll tolerate you if you tolerate me.. and if not, then.. there's gonna be problems.
A majority of atheists simply take the next logical step.
If something is not falsifiable, it is highly questionable what impact it would have on the system it inhabits.
Lacking any real information about the existence of a deity, and due to the fact that it lacks falsifiability, it is scientifically reasonable to tentatively discount its existence until new information is available.
This is 'weak atheism.'
Weak Atheism and Agnosticism are the only conclusions one can draw using current information, scientific processes, and non-assumptive logical reasoning.
See russel's teapot, which contrary to statements in this thread, is very much a logical response.
You are saying that atheists are hypocritical by attempting to use the label they use to describe their belief to form a blanket statement about them. Atheists are not an organized body like a religion. There is no set of agreed-upon principles of atheism. Atheism merely denotes the lack of belief in gods. The term by itself is often misused, and does not describe particularly how strongly an individual feels about the subject, or how they came to the conclusion.
Edit: And to head off the use of the term 'belief', any conclusion an individual draws about the world around them is a belief. I should hope you wouldn't call those who 'believe' in gravity, the shape of the earth, or the structure of an atom members of distinct religions.
"I do not believe that gods exist given current information, but I do not discount the possibility of gods existing." This is a logical statement.
"I do not believe that gods exist, they cannot exist, they do not exist, period." This is not a logical statement.
I won't get into the 'atheism is a religion' argument. I've already seen how ignorant and obstinate some of the proponents of that idea tend to be when it comes to debate. It has already been thoroughly put down in this thread anyways, I see, though I wouldn't be surprised if they chose to ignore it (again).
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i see more athiests preaching on this board about how they are right then any other religion. Does that qualify it as a religion?
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Weapons grade stupidity.
On Time? On Target? Never Quit?
Ahem, If I can't SEE, FEEL, HEAR, TASTE, or SMELL God, he doesn't exist.
I'm sorry but that is as logical as it gets.
im an Agnostics i think its unecessary to judge others' beliefs whether they believe in god or not. sometimes i think sth is done by luck or god helps me but most of time i think things are sucessful because of the human's effort.
I'm grinding my palm into my forehead as hard as I can.
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ok .... before anyone else takes my post seriously .....
i wasnt serious, or atleast i wasnt serious about the question of athiest being a religion.
I do see more athiests preaching about they are right then every other religion.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching? Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
It was a discussion about atheism and religion. Am I supposed to know automatically when you make a flippant throwaway comment which has relevence to the question being posed? I made know assumptions. I was responding to your comments. If you don't like being picked up on them then make sure that you mention it as a joke.
As to hearing more preaching from Atheists than Religions in real life.......well where do you live as I find that VERY hard to believe. Even on these boards it seems to be a 50/50 split.
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Why is it all of these religious threads are made by religious people to put down other peoples beleifs?
There is prolly a god of some kind out there...but I doubt very much it cares about us. We are just a flyshit in a pile of cowmanure which we call the universe.
We'll find out when we are all dead who was right n who was wrong.
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
It was a discussion about atheism and religion. Am I supposed to know automatically when you make a flippant throwaway comment which has relevence to the question being posed? I made know assumptions. I was responding to your comments. If you don't like being picked up on them then make sure that you mention it as a joke.
As to hearing more preaching from Atheists than Religions in real life.......well where do you live as I find that VERY hard to believe. Even on these boards it seems to be a 50/50 split.
Bring up God around any athiest and they just wont shut up.
Honestly I cant rember the last time a "Wittnes" came to my door But I can point out 2 times this year at the collage some athiest going apeshit just because i brought up God.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Well generally the status quo for anything to exist, it has to be proven, otherwise the position normally held is that it doesn't.
I do however take equal offense to rabid atheists who slam religion and faith and constantly try to thwart religious symbolism and tradition, as well as fundamentalists who damn non believers.
I am agnostic and say live and let live.
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
It was a discussion about atheism and religion. Am I supposed to know automatically when you make a flippant throwaway comment which has relevence to the question being posed? I made know assumptions. I was responding to your comments. If you don't like being picked up on them then make sure that you mention it as a joke.
As to hearing more preaching from Atheists than Religions in real life.......well where do you live as I find that VERY hard to believe. Even on these boards it seems to be a 50/50 split.
Bring up God around any athiest and they just wont shut up.
Honestly I cant rember the last time a "Wittnes" came to my door But I can point out 2 times this year at the collage some athiest going apeshit just because i brought up God.
Oh my, sounds like someone is tired of those 'uppity' Atheists who don't know their place in society.
So, are we to assume you simply 'mentioned' god, or did you jam some form of your religious view down the class's or Atheist's throat?
I'm guessing you were offensive in some way, and probably got what you deserved. Of course, you'll slant your story to make it sound like you did nothing wrong and the Atheist was irrational with anger. So, ignore the fact that I asked you a question, you'll just lie and distort the circumstances.
Frankly, I'm tired of people and their anecdotal evidence.
- LC
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
It was a discussion about atheism and religion. Am I supposed to know automatically when you make a flippant throwaway comment which has relevence to the question being posed? I made know assumptions. I was responding to your comments. If you don't like being picked up on them then make sure that you mention it as a joke.
As to hearing more preaching from Atheists than Religions in real life.......well where do you live as I find that VERY hard to believe. Even on these boards it seems to be a 50/50 split.
Bring up God around any athiest and they just wont shut up.
Honestly I cant rember the last time a "Wittnes" came to my door But I can point out 2 times this year at the collage some athiest going apeshit just because i brought up God.
Oh my, sounds like someone is tired of those 'uppity' Atheists who don't know their place in society.
So, are we to assume you simply 'mentioned' god, or did you jam some form of your religious view down the class's or Atheist's throat?
I'm guessing you were offensive in some way, and probably got what you deserved. Of course, you'll slant your story to make it sound like you did nothing wrong and the Atheist was irrational with anger. So, ignore the fact that I asked you a question, you'll just lie and distort the circumstances.
Frankly, I'm tired of people and their anecdotal evidence.
- LC
you dont need to jam a religious view down there throat or anything. I've run into a few athiests where if i or someone else mentions god they get all upset and they always make sure to explain their point of view and also explain how wrong everyone else is. And when i mean mention god, i mean making a statement about something happening, not trying to "convert" the other person. Seems like your stereotype isnt seeing eye to eye with everyone's encounters with athiests.
Although it can go both ways. I've heard of people running into more radical christians and/or muslims. It varies from person to person really, and if you cant really accept that, then i believe its safe to say that you are about as ignorant as anyone who gets all upset and bothered with the mentioning of 1 word.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
You're telling me that there are countless "atheist" TV channels preaching "atheism" compared to only one maybe two channels preaching about God?
You walk around a town and see atheist churches everywhere preaching about atheism?
A question was asked and and people respond so that is now preaching?
i wasnt referring to this thread. Quit making assumptions. Because as you can see from my post they dont work.
Maybe I should never answer a question again in case it's percieved that i'm a follower of the religion posed by the question.
erm i forgot to say "on these boards" like my last post. Stupid me for assuming people would connect this post with the post i was referring to.
But yes now that i think about it, irl i do hear alot more from athiests saying they are right hen from christians and muslims and everyone else.
It was a discussion about atheism and religion. Am I supposed to know automatically when you make a flippant throwaway comment which has relevence to the question being posed? I made know assumptions. I was responding to your comments. If you don't like being picked up on them then make sure that you mention it as a joke.
As to hearing more preaching from Atheists than Religions in real life.......well where do you live as I find that VERY hard to believe. Even on these boards it seems to be a 50/50 split.
Bring up God around any athiest and they just wont shut up.
Honestly I cant rember the last time a "Wittnes" came to my door But I can point out 2 times this year at the collage some athiest going apeshit just because i brought up God.
Oh my, sounds like someone is tired of those 'uppity' Atheists who don't know their place in society.
So, are we to assume you simply 'mentioned' god, or did you jam some form of your religious view down the class's or Atheist's throat?
I'm guessing you were offensive in some way, and probably got what you deserved. Of course, you'll slant your story to make it sound like you did nothing wrong and the Atheist was irrational with anger. So, ignore the fact that I asked you a question, you'll just lie and distort the circumstances.
Frankly, I'm tired of people and their anecdotal evidence.
- LC
you dont need to jam a religious view down there throat or anything. I've run into a few athiests where if i or someone else mentions god they get all upset and they always make sure to explain their point of view and also explain how wrong everyone else is. And when i mean mention god, i mean making a statement about something happening, not trying to "convert" the other person. Seems like your stereotype isnt seeing eye to eye with everyone's encounters with athiests.
Although it can go both ways. I've heard of people running into more radical christians and/or muslims. It varies from person to person really, and if you cant really accept that, then i believe its safe to say that you are about as ignorant as anyone who gets all upset and bothered with the mentioning of 1 word.
I accept that it might happen, I just doubt the previous posters 'innocence'. The typical situation is that people do not become angry unless provoked. If a religious person only meets 'angry' atheists, then I question their harmless 'mentions' of god -- they are usually to blame for other peoples reactions. And, of course, vice versa.
I have met a few Christians who are angry and want to argue, but the majority have not been such. If I had said, "Bring up Atheism around ANY Christian, and they just won't shut up.", then you should question my claim. As I question the previous posters claim. I think he is exaggerating. Don't you?
- LC
"The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur." -George W. Bush, discussing the decline of the French economy with British Prime Minister Tony Blair