Cant you simple say, during RP, that you gank because your character is a chaotic killer/bandit or something of that sort? Seems justifiable to me. Also, if people complain about your actions, tell them they need to either play around it (develop an alliance or killing party of their own) or change their game.
Also i have to say your quite oblivious to the fact that no developer designs their game with the idea that 5% of the players will run off 20 maybe 30% of their new customers, just because the game allows them to kill off new low leveled un experienced players.
I'll be the first to admit my language was harsh and apologize for any insult you feel was directed towards you.
I grow tired of the same metality of non pvper's who blame pvpers who play within the rules of a game.
But, what proof do you have to make your assumption that ganking/pvp drives off people? I can point to numerous pvp servers with high populations. Then also point to many pve servers with low pop.
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
I think the term "gank" means something different to everyone, to me it means killing someone who has no means of stopping me and doing it for no reason other than the fact that you can. I only roll cara's on PvP servers and useually spend most of my time PvPing and never RP, PvPing is what makes MMo's fun for me. But i think that bullying people is bullying be it in real life or in game, if you can beat on some one weaker than you just because you can and then justify it to yourself, then your a bully. It can't be explained away under the geise of sportmanship, historical continuity, game lore or roleplaying, it's just plain old mean spirited malicious behaviour.
I think the term "gank" means something different to everyone, to me it means killing someone who has no means of stopping me and doing it for no reason other than the fact that you can. I only roll cara's on PvP servers and useually spend most of my time PvPing and never RP, PvPing is what makes MMo's fun for me. But i think that bullying people is bullying be it in real life or in game, if you can beat on some one weaker than you just because you can and then justify it to yourself, then your a bully. It can't be explained away under the geise of sportmanship, historical continuity, game lore or roleplaying, it's just plain old mean spirited malicious behaviour.
Thats fine, it your opinion. But where is you proof that 'ganking' drives off 20-30% of new players? Still waiting...
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Also i have to say your quite oblivious to the fact that no developer designs their game with the idea that 5% of the players will run off 20 maybe 30% of their new customers, just because the game allows them to kill off new low leveled un experienced players.
What make you think the developer can't anticipated something as simple as a higher level player attacking a much lower one? If they want to prevent something like this from happening, they can simple add a barrier where if the level difference between A and B is X amount, then pvp won't be enable and making it impossible for the two to fight. Why wouldn't a developer do something like that instead of letting the so called asshole run amok terrorizing the lowebies? Why is it that many pvp server with high concentration of such asshole are doing so well? If anything, people like me make the game a little bit more interesting and breaking people away from the normal mundane aspect of the game. For every person we driven away to the pve server, many more stay with the new found conviction to taking us down. For a person to stay so commited to a game they need to have a reason, and revenge is just as good as any.
Have to ask the question because an ex guild member contacted me and explained he wanted to set up a hardcore PvP guild with hard core RP. Hardcore PvP I have no problem with, but he continued to explain that they will most likely go out killing people randomly. Personally I hate ganking and killing for killing sake as I always need a reason. So what does everone think? Can ganking be justified if heavy RP is mixed in?
IMO, whatever the game rules allow is justified. If players can Ninja Loot, then Ninja looting is justified. If players can kill steal, then kill stealing is justified. If players can gank, then ganking is justified.
If the developers don't want you to do these things, they should design the game so you can not. If you can do these things, it's part of the game, so why not do it?
If you don't like something that players can do in an MMORPG, play something else that has a different design. You can FFA PvP in Darkfall, for example, so it's justified if you kill everyone you see. you can only kill other players in RVR in DAoC, so that's justified, and so on.
Dang you guys are horrible, tell you what you right i'm wrong and at that i shall remove my profile from this site because you people of just plain nasty.
It is, and forever will be, supported by the erroneous, "Because we can, we should, and we will."
Exactly. Funny thing is when i worked in a state prison several of the inmates who were eager to play games when they got out could not wait to gank newbs. So the way I see it gankers are either closet criminals or parolled felons. Also by using the logic that if I can do it I should. I am a big guy so does that mean since I can I should go around forcing myself on whoever I want? Pvping like in DAoC I get but ganking I will always feel is the realm of the casualties of puberty who I spent years of my life putting behind bars.
I may be completely wrong here and welcome correction if so, but to the best of my knowledge all that ganking serves to do is make people who have been ganked not want to play. So then there are fewer people in game than there could be and over time no one except gankers ganking each other. then the game slowly dies away and finally gone all together. I think there are even a few well known examples of this too??? or am i wrong there?.
Then using your retard logic, then why are all the pvp servers in WOW not low pop?
Hell, my old server was a day server with the world first Nefarian kill and the first North American Cthun kill.
The people who cry abut being pvp'd, are the ones at fault, not the person ganking. The ganker is using the game mechanics as the developers intended. or do developers intend for cowards and crybabies to roll on pvp servers.
Intended?
It's a good while since I rolled a toon on a WoW PvP server, I gave quickly up the single time I tried that. This was pre-TBC, and I have no idea if rules are changed, if not they should be, cause this is what happened:
At lvl 5 I left the starting area in Elwynn, and almost immediately after I came through the gate, some high-lvl horde oneshot me. Followed by a /spit. I ran back to my corpse, and immediately after I rezz'd -> oneshot + /spit. Again and again. It soon became very clear that there were several horde players, probably at max lvl (60 then) ganking everyone they could find.
And this is "as the developers intended"?
I've had similar experiences in other games. The result is that I will never ever again roll a character on a PvP server in a PvE game.
You talk about "cowards" and "crybabies" - the only cowards are the gankers. They're the ones that only dares to fight players with no chance to put up any resistance, and would probably wet their pants as soon as an equal opponent showed his face a mile away, and quickly hs back home.
It is, and forever will be, supported by the erroneous, "Because we can, we should, and we will."
Exactly. Funny thing is when i worked in a state prison several of the inmates who were eager to play games when they got out could not wait to gank newbs. So the way I see it gankers are either closet criminals or parolled felons. Also by using the logic that if I can do it I should. I am a big guy so does that mean since I can I should go around forcing myself on whoever I want? Pvping like in DAoC I get but ganking I will always feel is the realm of the casualties of puberty who I spent years of my life putting behind bars.
Dear sir,
You are retarded. We doing horrible things in game cause it is virtual violence and nothing more. The person we kill is not actually dead. They lost nothing more than a couple minutes or an hour out of there life that they could of spend on getting couple of thousands of xp. Any why don't we do it in real life? Mainly because we have rules and laws prohibiting us from doing that thing. I could kill people with a pocket knife but I don't. Why? Cause it is against the law and I will be punished sevearly when caught. Now, if it not against the law to kill people that piss you off, then sure, go do what you want. But you sure as hell won't see me living in any place like that.
Your moronic logic is poorly constructed and your linking people like me to common actual criminal is offensive and wrong.
I may be completely wrong here and welcome correction if so, but to the best of my knowledge all that ganking serves to do is make people who have been ganked not want to play. So then there are fewer people in game than there could be and over time no one except gankers ganking each other. then the game slowly dies away and finally gone all together. I think there are even a few well known examples of this too??? or am i wrong there?.
Then using your retard logic, then why are all the pvp servers in WOW not low pop?
Hell, my old server was a day server with the world first Nefarian kill and the first North American Cthun kill.
The people who cry abut being pvp'd, are the ones at fault, not the person ganking. The ganker is using the game mechanics as the developers intended. or do developers intend for cowards and crybabies to roll on pvp servers.
Intended?
It's a good while since I rolled a toon on a WoW PvP server, I gave quickly up the single time I tried that. This was pre-TBC, and I have no idea if rules are changed, if not they should be, cause this is what happened:
At lvl 5 I left the starting area in Elwynn, and almost immediately after I came through the gate, some high-lvl horde oneshot me. Followed by a /spit. I ran back to my corpse, and immediately after I rezz'd -> oneshot + /spit. Again and again. It soon became very clear that there were several horde players, probably at max lvl (60 then) ganking everyone they could find.
And this is "as the developers intended"?
I've had similar experiences in other games. The result is that I will never ever again roll a character on a PvP server in a PvE game.
You talk about "cowards" and "crybabies" - the only cowards are the gankers. They're the ones that only dares to fight players with no chance to put up any resistance, and would probably wet their pants as soon as an equal opponent showed his face a mile away, and quickly hs back home.
I played at launch. Back when city raids happened daily. Every town and city got hit at least once a day. The only time anybody got killed in the safe areas, was when they got themselves flagged for pvp. That mechanic was in the game from beta. That leads me to believe that you did something you didnt know would get you flagged, or you are fibbing. Rezing flagged has been a complaint for a long time. Easy self fix was to run to another GY to rez or log into another toon.
Gankers isnt a coward, its the person who whines on a forum and then rerolls on a carebear server instead of 'manning up' and getting some payback. Blaming others for your poor choice in game is pretty pathetic. You have a victim mentality, as do many of the haters here do. They are unwilling to accpet the consequences of thier actions and chioces. IE: I hate pvp, but I will roll on a pvp server then cry about being pvp'd.
I'm gald you made the right choice in moving to a pve server. For I had to deal with the cowards first hand in my guild. Me or others are getting camped, yet they wont lift a finger to come help. Thier precious rep grind of farming is to important than helping your guildmates. Then they cry the loudest when its them getting camped. And if nobody comes, they threaten to /gquit then rant abuot it on the guild forums.
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
I may be completely wrong here and welcome correction if so, but to the best of my knowledge all that ganking serves to do is make people who have been ganked not want to play. So then there are fewer people in game than there could be and over time no one except gankers ganking each other. then the game slowly dies away and finally gone all together. I think there are even a few well known examples of this too??? or am i wrong there?.
Then using your retard logic, then why are all the pvp servers in WOW not low pop?
Hell, my old server was a day server with the world first Nefarian kill and the first North American Cthun kill.
The people who cry abut being pvp'd, are the ones at fault, not the person ganking. The ganker is using the game mechanics as the developers intended. or do developers intend for cowards and crybabies to roll on pvp servers.
Intended?
It's a good while since I rolled a toon on a WoW PvP server, I gave quickly up the single time I tried that. This was pre-TBC, and I have no idea if rules are changed, if not they should be, cause this is what happened:
At lvl 5 I left the starting area in Elwynn, and almost immediately after I came through the gate, some high-lvl horde oneshot me. Followed by a /spit. I ran back to my corpse, and immediately after I rezz'd -> oneshot + /spit. Again and again. It soon became very clear that there were several horde players, probably at max lvl (60 then) ganking everyone they could find.
And this is "as the developers intended"?
I've had similar experiences in other games. The result is that I will never ever again roll a character on a PvP server in a PvE game.
You talk about "cowards" and "crybabies" - the only cowards are the gankers. They're the ones that only dares to fight players with no chance to put up any resistance, and would probably wet their pants as soon as an equal opponent showed his face a mile away, and quickly hs back home.
I played at launch. Back when city raids happened daily. Every town and city got hit at least once a day. The only time anybody got killed in the safe areas, was when they got themselves flagged for pvp. That mechanic was in the game from beta. That leads me to believe that you did something you didnt know would get you flagged, or you are fibbing. Rezing flagged has been a complaint for a long time. Easy self fix was to run to another GY to rez or log into another toon.
Gankers isnt a coward, its the person who whines on a forum and then rerolls on a carebear server instead of 'manning up' and getting some payback. Blaming others for your poor choice in game is pretty pathetic. You have a victim mentality, as do many of the haters here do. They are unwilling to accpet the consequences of thier actions and chioces. IE: I hate pvp, but I will roll on a pvp server then cry about being pvp'd.
I'm gald you made the right choice in moving to a pve server. For I had to deal with the cowards first hand in my guild. Me or others are getting camped, yet they wont lift a finger to come help. Thier precious rep grind of farming is to important than helping your guildmates. Then they cry the loudest when its them getting camped. And if nobody comes, they threaten to /gquit then rant abuot it on the guild forums.
Manning up? Against a player 55, again: FIFTYFIVE, lvls above me?
Pathetic, complaining about being corpsecamped by players 55, again: FIFTYFIVE, lvls above me?
Being killed the very instant I leave the starting area, by a player 55, again: FIFTYFIVE, lvls above me, that's ME being pathetic and blaming others for MY bad choices?
If a difference of 55 lvls, again: FIFTYFIVE, is your kind of PvP, then it's bloody obvious who the coward is.
Even if they want to roleplay a villain, even villains have their motives for murder. Most villains only commit murder to achieve their goals and not randomly go out and commit senseless murder. But gankers simply gank for fun and the feeling of "power" it gives them that stimulates their brain's pleasure senses. They thinks their actions is "fine" just because it is an online game and it doesn't hurt anybody. They are not afraid of the consequences of their actions. Imagine an mmo in which you can only have 1 life and if your character dies, it is gone as you cannot resurrect and immediate gets deleted. People would argue then that this game won't be fun. But for those who plays it, they would be very careful with their actions because it has consequences. If they simply go out and randomly kill players, sooner or later someone is gonna come kill them and all their "hard work" on their character will be gone. Conclusion: PK gankers/griefers are just like alchoholics drinking Non-Alchoholic beer.
No. Some people like to hide the mean things they do under the guise of RP but in all reality I think RPing and Ganking is even worse. Sure you are Roleplaying and pretending to be someone you arn't but you are always responsible for your actions... always.
If you're a mean person than by all means gank away, but if moraly you feel like causing people grief is wrong then don't regardless of your "character". To pretening to be a monster will only make you into one.
Great logic, if i can do it and get away with it then it's cool. Just glad its a minority that think like that.
I think you're missing an important detail here. It's a game.
You could play Habbo Hotel. You can't kill anyone in Habbo Hotel. You could play Darkfall. You can kill everyone in Darkfall.
In real life, you can't just quit and play on a different reality. (Well, maybe you can but most religions say you don't get into heaven if you commit suicide, and the game Hell doesn't have good reviews). This is why consequences don't work in games. Because players can quit and play something else, since it's a GAME and not reality.
So developers MUST design the games with any rules the players have to abide by hard coded into the game. Otherwise, players will break the rules that are not hard coded into the game, and when you punish them for it, they simply quit the game. What has that accomplished? Pissed off people paying the subscription, and pissed off people quitting the game, but that's about it.
So, you don't want ganking? Hard code that into the game. you want to allow ganking? Code taht into the game, and then realize players are going to do it if you let them, and that it's part of your design.
Don't want Ninja Looting? DDO solved that perfectly. A loot chest drops. Each player clicks on the loot chest and gets their pick of loot geared for thier character, i.e. fighters get swords not robes for clerics.
You want Ninja Looting? Then don't use this DDO model and have players bitching bout need before greed and "he stole my sword!" and crap like that. It's up to you, the developer.
Even if they want to roleplay a villain, even villains have their motives for murder. Most villains only commit murder to achieve their goals and not randomly go out and commit senseless murder. But gankers simply gank for fun and the feeling of "power" it gives them that stimulates their brain's pleasure senses. They thinks their actions is "fine" just because it is an online game and it doesn't hurt anybody. They are not afraid of the consequences of their actions. Imagine an mmo in which you can only have 1 life and if your character dies, it is gone as you cannot resurrect and immediate gets deleted. People would argue then that this game won't be fun. But for those who plays it, they would be very careful with their actions because it has consequences. If they simply go out and randomly kill players, sooner or later someone is gonna come kill them and all their "hard work" on their character will be gone. Conclusion: PK gankers/griefers are just like alchoholics drinking Non-Alchoholic beer.
Completely true...and sad
Sorry, but that doesn't work either. It's just futile to allow something, but at the same time have such harsh consequences no one will do it. What does that accomplish? Think about it a moment.
Ok, you COULD kill someone, but you lose your account if you do, so you won't. Why then allow it, since no one enjoying the game will do it? It's pointless.
Plus, guess who will do it? Those that don't enjoy the game, or for whatever reason are quitting, running out of money, bored with the game, moving to another game, etc. You know encourage them to do the thing you are trying to stop. Well, I'm quitting anyway, so might as well kill a few people before I go, since I could never use this feature before...
You can't model games after reality, unless you're going to kill the person playing the game in real life. You could strap them to a chair, and hook up electrodes to them, and shock them to death if they die in the game. THEN the game would work like real life, otherwise it won't.
Originally posted by lugal I played at launch. Back when city raids happened daily. Every town and city got hit at least once a day. The only time anybody got killed in the safe areas, was when they got themselves flagged for pvp. That mechanic was in the game from beta. That leads me to believe that you did something you didnt know would get you flagged, or you are fibbing. Rezing flagged has been a complaint for a long time. Easy self fix was to run to another GY to rez or log into another toon. Gankers isnt a coward, its the person who whines on a forum and then rerolls on a carebear server instead of 'manning up' and getting some payback. Blaming others for your poor choice in game is pretty pathetic. You have a victim mentality, as do many of the haters here do. They are unwilling to accpet the consequences of thier actions and chioces. IE: I hate pvp, but I will roll on a pvp server then cry about being pvp'd. I'm gald you made the right choice in moving to a pve server. For I had to deal with the cowards first hand in my guild. Me or others are getting camped, yet they wont lift a finger to come help. Thier precious rep grind of farming is to important than helping your guildmates. Then they cry the loudest when its them getting camped. And if nobody comes, they threaten to /gquit then rant abuot it on the guild forums.
lugal, you can repeat the same drivel over and over again, it doesn't make it any better. What you obviously can't get into your head is that (some) people LIKE to play on PvP because they like the challenge, the danger, whatever. What that however does not equate to is being ganked repeatedly (i.e. consecutively killed by a player with a much higher level or a group of players), corpse-camped to the point when the only thing you can do is exit the game and hope that when you log back on an hour later, that necrophiliac a-hole has moved on to give his tough love to some other poor lowbie or being followed by another player who swoops in to loot your kills, farms the resource nodes you just cleared etc.
I detest people who use the "I do it because I can" line of reasoning to rationalize harrassing and bullying others. Just because it is technically possible, doesn't make it morally right. This goes for real life as well. However, if you behave rudely to a real person, that person will likely find a way get rid of you, which is sometimes impossible in game.
In my experience 'gankers' are almost always what could be considered hardcore players. They know the mechanics of the game very well, the invest a more than average amount of time and consequently have great gear. Killing lower level players is no challange for them. None at all. Thus I fail to see what they accomplish by doing it, other than making someone else's life miserable.
Personally, I accept that I can get killed at any time while in enemy or contested territory. I go there at my own risk. However, if I consider corpse-camping to be harassment in most cases. I also realize that Blizzard does not! Of course it is much easier to 'legalize' this behaviour than to police it. (See WoW - Terms of Use 10C).
Again, the 'law' is on your side. Morality, however, imho is not.
In a open free for all game yes if you get also opposite, ANTI'S who make sure RPK'S will suffer YES.
But im affraid not many games left where this happen only game i have seen this way of play was asherons call.
Darkfall dont have it eather its a gankfest there without any anti to prefend that its all rpk, becouse of alignnment system and little to do then own hamlet/city join zergalliance there is zero anti vs rpk, blues are as bad and evil as red becouse of stupid pvp system in that game.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Dang you guys are horrible, tell you what you right i'm wrong and at that i shall remove my profile from this site because you people of just plain nasty.
lol not all nasty
However I do think you have point regarding players leaving from over ganking. There are few issues here I would like to list first. (my opinion only of course)
A) Players who join a game such as EVE or DF and venture off into lawless lands kinda take life into their own hands.
Ganking is not killing players from an enemy guild, regardless of level; even I will take out a level 10 enemy player
C) Full PvP or FFA PvP is not an excuse for killing new players in a new zone
*** Definition of ganking for me is a player(s) at a much higher level killing unknown lower level players continuously and camping rez pts.
Your Question:
In some ways I agree with you about driving players away. I personally know a lot of players that left a game or moved to a PvE server because of the attitude from a group of players. Best example I can think of is Vanguard. A whole guild I was in
e.g. crafting in a crafting hall and being killed repeatedly even though they gain nothing
e.g. Handing in missions or trying to hand in a mission and being killed repeatedly.
Originally posted by lugal I played at launch. Back when city raids happened daily. Every town and city got hit at least once a day. The only time anybody got killed in the safe areas, was when they got themselves flagged for pvp. That mechanic was in the game from beta. That leads me to believe that you did something you didnt know would get you flagged, or you are fibbing. Rezing flagged has been a complaint for a long time. Easy self fix was to run to another GY to rez or log into another toon. Gankers isnt a coward, its the person who whines on a forum and then rerolls on a carebear server instead of 'manning up' and getting some payback. Blaming others for your poor choice in game is pretty pathetic. You have a victim mentality, as do many of the haters here do. They are unwilling to accpet the consequences of thier actions and chioces. IE: I hate pvp, but I will roll on a pvp server then cry about being pvp'd. I'm gald you made the right choice in moving to a pve server. For I had to deal with the cowards first hand in my guild. Me or others are getting camped, yet they wont lift a finger to come help. Thier precious rep grind of farming is to important than helping your guildmates. Then they cry the loudest when its them getting camped. And if nobody comes, they threaten to /gquit then rant abuot it on the guild forums.
lugal, you can repeat the same drivel over and over again, it doesn't make it any better. What you obviously can't get into your head is that (some) people LIKE to play on PvP because they like the challenge, the danger, whatever. What that however does not equate to is being ganked repeatedly (i.e. consecutively killed by a player with a much higher level or a group of players), corpse-camped to the point when the only thing you can do is exit the game and hope that when you log back on an hour later, that necrophiliac a-hole has moved on to give his tough love to some other poor lowbie or being followed by another player who swoops in to loot your kills, farms the resource nodes you just cleared etc.
I detest people who use the "I do it because I can" line of reasoning to rationalize harrassing and bullying others. Just because it is technically possible, doesn't make it morally right. This goes for real life as well. However, if you behave rudely to a real person, that person will likely find a way get rid of you, which is sometimes impossible in game.
In my experience 'gankers' are almost always what could be considered hardcore players. They know the mechanics of the game very well, the invest a more than average amount of time and consequently have great gear. Killing lower level players is no challange for them. None at all. Thus I fail to see what they accomplish by doing it, other than making someone else's life miserable.
Personally, I accept that I can get killed at any time while in enemy or contested territory. I go there at my own risk. However, if I consider corpse-camping to be harassment in most cases. I also realize that Blizzard does not! Of course it is much easier to 'legalize' this behaviour than to police it. (See WoW - Terms of Use 10C).
Again, the 'law' is on your side. Morality, however, imho is not.
So, others who accept the consequences of rolling on a pvp server should be at fault when somebody who doesnt and gets bvtt hurt about being pvp'd? I repeat the drivel cuz the blame also belongs to the idiot who rolls on a pvp server yet cant take it.
People need to stop blaming others for actions they facilitated. Yeah, camping is lame and stupid. have I done it, heck yeah. Will I do it again, more likely than the stimulas saving the economy. The point is, ganking takes 2. You are at fault as much as the ganker. Now, you play a MMO and have no guild or friends cuz you want to play "solo", good luck with pvp. Everytime I was in trouble, I had friends to call on. I'd be willing to bet that many of the whinners and cowards have a lack of interpersonal skills that inhibits thier ability to make friends in an MMO.
Does ganking have a place in a RP server, hell yeah. I played on a pvp RP server in AoC. The guild had a no camping/ganking rule. The exception was for guilds we were at war with or people who had NON RP NAMES.
Gank away pvpers, the more they whine, the better we feel.
Roses are red Violets are blue The reviewer has a mishapen head Which means his opinion is skewed ...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
lugal is right, if you don't wish to pvp you roll pve,
Don't complain about being camped in wow, you can't get camped in wow, you can res miles away from your corpse, it doesn't take more than like 4-5 deaths to get to any friendly town and get out of the zone.
I personally rolled pvp to play the hunted, I was bored of mindlessly grinding mobs and I loved the fact that someone could come along and change the pace, it may have been a good experience for me because I was playing a mage (totally op class for those that don't play wow) , even though I did die quite a few times.
The difference between the whiners and the people that enjoy it seems to be as follows:
Whiners give up, pvpers search for solutions.
Call your guild, call your friends, call strangers out to kill some gankers, res at a different graveyard, take a flight / hearth out of the zone (in wow there were multiple areas to level always, usually one was emptier than another) go to a safe(r) area, or at extremes, log an alt or go make a sandwich. If the game is geting you stressed out you need to take a step back anyway.
Anyway, wow is a bad example of pvp
in a real pvp game even players that havent been playing for a long time can and should be a threat, ie EVE, where a freshly made character (these days) can scout or tackle with ease.
Whiners don't seem to realise what the second m in mmo is. you can't solve all your problems alone.
Back in the old days of EQ i played on a PvP server called Vallon Zek. This was before expansions.
The server pvp system were as follows. You could only attack somebody 2 levels lower or 2 levels above you. Anybody else were immune to attacks. That meant no level 50 ganking level 10's
Back then you could loot 1 item of the enemies corpses and all their coins. The only items you were not allowed to touch was what was in bags. So naturally when facing a losing battle or for some..just any kind of PvP (boggles me why PvP shy people would play on a PvP server to begin with but w/e) people would quickly bag whatever valuable items they were wearing and let themselves die or try and put up a fight before dying.
The server had 3 or 4 factions i can't remember but were ultimately decided by the playerbase to be down between good vs evil. Evil being darkelves trolls ogres iksars. Good being humans elves gnomes halflings dwarves.
Now that there is a little background story ...here comes the point
I was in a RP guild that followed the PvP lore of there being 4 factions ..everybody else cross teamed because they the players, had made it into 2 factions for the sake of PvE and Carebear style of play. We would hunt these cross teamers down and kill them in force. Regular twinked out gank squads. We pissed people off and got nasty tells why we would ruin somebody's carebear PvE fun. We would tell them to loot their corpses and have safe passage away from the area..a system upheld by the whole community called "loot and scoot" ..Since we were the "bad guys" we often saw people to refusing out of anger. So we would corpse camp them for hours sometimes until they got the point we were serious. If they brought a highlevel friend we would do the same.
We killed you for associating with the enemy team. Obviously we couldn't hurt our own faction but we could do the next best thing..kill the rest of the heathens and then give a stout lecture to whatever team member caught breaking "our rules".
We helped out newbies with gear and sometimes levelled them a bit. We taught them about our motto and the evil ways of cross teaming. We had a whole propaganda system going lol. Best fun i ever had. We were not hated by all ..some thought it was cool we were around to make things interesting..but the carebears certainly hated us. We were what you would call a "purist" guild. Ingame racism if you like only kept between the factions. We didn't attack the opposing teams if they stuck to their own.
My answer is yes you can roleplay a harcore PvP ganker. We did it.
Were we bullies...check...were we imposing our rules on the rest of the player community...check. Were we unfair...check.
The thing people need to realize that PvP is not about being fair..it's not about bowing down before eachother asking the other person if he feels like a fight today...it is not about taking you extremely overpowered hatchet off to even the playing field...it is PvP...any time any place...prepared or not prepared.
This pussified PvP i see today where you consent to every fight you participate in is watered down for the carebears all for the sake of mainstreaming it. I hate it and i avoid games that has it. WoW is a great example of it. You have neat little contested zones and safe zones..you have battlegrounds and arenas ..The only interesting PvP you see in WoW is the occational random world pvp encounter. The game has zero consequences..you die you resurrect that's it. Pussified for the whining weakling that can't handle a little adrenaline rush. If you complain about WoW PvP then i will do something i don't do often. Stoop to insults where i call you a tool. If you one day get to experience what i would call "real pvp" then i might take you serious. Might
PvP is mean, it's nasty and you should care about losing. Not like WoW where losing is like losing a hand in a go fish card game. It's not for everybody..it's not suppose to be. It's for people who like to be hunted and hunt themselves. I enjoy both. People who has only tried the watered down PvP system we see in todays MMOs with a few exceptions... has never faced an adrenaline kick from running into somebody who wants you dead. You simply won't understand why it can be so much fun..both being the hunted and the hunter. This is because you want to sit in your own safe little bubble where YOU decide when and where a battle should take place. This will never be true PvP in my eyes ganking or no ganking.
Comments
Back to the Topic.
Cant you simple say, during RP, that you gank because your character is a chaotic killer/bandit or something of that sort? Seems justifiable to me. Also, if people complain about your actions, tell them they need to either play around it (develop an alliance or killing party of their own) or change their game.
I'll be the first to admit my language was harsh and apologize for any insult you feel was directed towards you.
I grow tired of the same metality of non pvper's who blame pvpers who play within the rules of a game.
But, what proof do you have to make your assumption that ganking/pvp drives off people? I can point to numerous pvp servers with high populations. Then also point to many pve servers with low pop.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
I think the term "gank" means something different to everyone, to me it means killing someone who has no means of stopping me and doing it for no reason other than the fact that you can. I only roll cara's on PvP servers and useually spend most of my time PvPing and never RP, PvPing is what makes MMo's fun for me. But i think that bullying people is bullying be it in real life or in game, if you can beat on some one weaker than you just because you can and then justify it to yourself, then your a bully. It can't be explained away under the geise of sportmanship, historical continuity, game lore or roleplaying, it's just plain old mean spirited malicious behaviour.
Thats fine, it your opinion. But where is you proof that 'ganking' drives off 20-30% of new players? Still waiting...
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
What make you think the developer can't anticipated something as simple as a higher level player attacking a much lower one? If they want to prevent something like this from happening, they can simple add a barrier where if the level difference between A and B is X amount, then pvp won't be enable and making it impossible for the two to fight. Why wouldn't a developer do something like that instead of letting the so called asshole run amok terrorizing the lowebies? Why is it that many pvp server with high concentration of such asshole are doing so well? If anything, people like me make the game a little bit more interesting and breaking people away from the normal mundane aspect of the game. For every person we driven away to the pve server, many more stay with the new found conviction to taking us down. For a person to stay so commited to a game they need to have a reason, and revenge is just as good as any.
IMO, whatever the game rules allow is justified. If players can Ninja Loot, then Ninja looting is justified. If players can kill steal, then kill stealing is justified. If players can gank, then ganking is justified.
If the developers don't want you to do these things, they should design the game so you can not. If you can do these things, it's part of the game, so why not do it?
If you don't like something that players can do in an MMORPG, play something else that has a different design. You can FFA PvP in Darkfall, for example, so it's justified if you kill everyone you see. you can only kill other players in RVR in DAoC, so that's justified, and so on.
Great logic, if i can do it and get away with it then it's cool. Just glad its a minority that think like that.
Dang you guys are horrible, tell you what you right i'm wrong and at that i shall remove my profile from this site because you people of just plain nasty.
Exactly. Funny thing is when i worked in a state prison several of the inmates who were eager to play games when they got out could not wait to gank newbs. So the way I see it gankers are either closet criminals or parolled felons. Also by using the logic that if I can do it I should. I am a big guy so does that mean since I can I should go around forcing myself on whoever I want? Pvping like in DAoC I get but ganking I will always feel is the realm of the casualties of puberty who I spent years of my life putting behind bars.
Then using your retard logic, then why are all the pvp servers in WOW not low pop?
Hell, my old server was a day server with the world first Nefarian kill and the first North American Cthun kill.
The people who cry abut being pvp'd, are the ones at fault, not the person ganking. The ganker is using the game mechanics as the developers intended. or do developers intend for cowards and crybabies to roll on pvp servers.
Intended?
It's a good while since I rolled a toon on a WoW PvP server, I gave quickly up the single time I tried that. This was pre-TBC, and I have no idea if rules are changed, if not they should be, cause this is what happened:
At lvl 5 I left the starting area in Elwynn, and almost immediately after I came through the gate, some high-lvl horde oneshot me. Followed by a /spit. I ran back to my corpse, and immediately after I rezz'd -> oneshot + /spit. Again and again. It soon became very clear that there were several horde players, probably at max lvl (60 then) ganking everyone they could find.
And this is "as the developers intended"?
I've had similar experiences in other games. The result is that I will never ever again roll a character on a PvP server in a PvE game.
You talk about "cowards" and "crybabies" - the only cowards are the gankers. They're the ones that only dares to fight players with no chance to put up any resistance, and would probably wet their pants as soon as an equal opponent showed his face a mile away, and quickly hs back home.
Exactly. Funny thing is when i worked in a state prison several of the inmates who were eager to play games when they got out could not wait to gank newbs. So the way I see it gankers are either closet criminals or parolled felons. Also by using the logic that if I can do it I should. I am a big guy so does that mean since I can I should go around forcing myself on whoever I want? Pvping like in DAoC I get but ganking I will always feel is the realm of the casualties of puberty who I spent years of my life putting behind bars.
Dear sir,
You are retarded. We doing horrible things in game cause it is virtual violence and nothing more. The person we kill is not actually dead. They lost nothing more than a couple minutes or an hour out of there life that they could of spend on getting couple of thousands of xp. Any why don't we do it in real life? Mainly because we have rules and laws prohibiting us from doing that thing. I could kill people with a pocket knife but I don't. Why? Cause it is against the law and I will be punished sevearly when caught. Now, if it not against the law to kill people that piss you off, then sure, go do what you want. But you sure as hell won't see me living in any place like that.
Your moronic logic is poorly constructed and your linking people like me to common actual criminal is offensive and wrong.
Then using your retard logic, then why are all the pvp servers in WOW not low pop?
Hell, my old server was a day server with the world first Nefarian kill and the first North American Cthun kill.
The people who cry abut being pvp'd, are the ones at fault, not the person ganking. The ganker is using the game mechanics as the developers intended. or do developers intend for cowards and crybabies to roll on pvp servers.
Intended?
It's a good while since I rolled a toon on a WoW PvP server, I gave quickly up the single time I tried that. This was pre-TBC, and I have no idea if rules are changed, if not they should be, cause this is what happened:
At lvl 5 I left the starting area in Elwynn, and almost immediately after I came through the gate, some high-lvl horde oneshot me. Followed by a /spit. I ran back to my corpse, and immediately after I rezz'd -> oneshot + /spit. Again and again. It soon became very clear that there were several horde players, probably at max lvl (60 then) ganking everyone they could find.
And this is "as the developers intended"?
I've had similar experiences in other games. The result is that I will never ever again roll a character on a PvP server in a PvE game.
You talk about "cowards" and "crybabies" - the only cowards are the gankers. They're the ones that only dares to fight players with no chance to put up any resistance, and would probably wet their pants as soon as an equal opponent showed his face a mile away, and quickly hs back home.
I played at launch. Back when city raids happened daily. Every town and city got hit at least once a day. The only time anybody got killed in the safe areas, was when they got themselves flagged for pvp. That mechanic was in the game from beta. That leads me to believe that you did something you didnt know would get you flagged, or you are fibbing. Rezing flagged has been a complaint for a long time. Easy self fix was to run to another GY to rez or log into another toon.
Gankers isnt a coward, its the person who whines on a forum and then rerolls on a carebear server instead of 'manning up' and getting some payback. Blaming others for your poor choice in game is pretty pathetic. You have a victim mentality, as do many of the haters here do. They are unwilling to accpet the consequences of thier actions and chioces. IE: I hate pvp, but I will roll on a pvp server then cry about being pvp'd.
I'm gald you made the right choice in moving to a pve server. For I had to deal with the cowards first hand in my guild. Me or others are getting camped, yet they wont lift a finger to come help. Thier precious rep grind of farming is to important than helping your guildmates. Then they cry the loudest when its them getting camped. And if nobody comes, they threaten to /gquit then rant abuot it on the guild forums.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
Then using your retard logic, then why are all the pvp servers in WOW not low pop?
Hell, my old server was a day server with the world first Nefarian kill and the first North American Cthun kill.
The people who cry abut being pvp'd, are the ones at fault, not the person ganking. The ganker is using the game mechanics as the developers intended. or do developers intend for cowards and crybabies to roll on pvp servers.
Intended?
It's a good while since I rolled a toon on a WoW PvP server, I gave quickly up the single time I tried that. This was pre-TBC, and I have no idea if rules are changed, if not they should be, cause this is what happened:
At lvl 5 I left the starting area in Elwynn, and almost immediately after I came through the gate, some high-lvl horde oneshot me. Followed by a /spit. I ran back to my corpse, and immediately after I rezz'd -> oneshot + /spit. Again and again. It soon became very clear that there were several horde players, probably at max lvl (60 then) ganking everyone they could find.
And this is "as the developers intended"?
I've had similar experiences in other games. The result is that I will never ever again roll a character on a PvP server in a PvE game.
You talk about "cowards" and "crybabies" - the only cowards are the gankers. They're the ones that only dares to fight players with no chance to put up any resistance, and would probably wet their pants as soon as an equal opponent showed his face a mile away, and quickly hs back home.
I played at launch. Back when city raids happened daily. Every town and city got hit at least once a day. The only time anybody got killed in the safe areas, was when they got themselves flagged for pvp. That mechanic was in the game from beta. That leads me to believe that you did something you didnt know would get you flagged, or you are fibbing. Rezing flagged has been a complaint for a long time. Easy self fix was to run to another GY to rez or log into another toon.
Gankers isnt a coward, its the person who whines on a forum and then rerolls on a carebear server instead of 'manning up' and getting some payback. Blaming others for your poor choice in game is pretty pathetic. You have a victim mentality, as do many of the haters here do. They are unwilling to accpet the consequences of thier actions and chioces. IE: I hate pvp, but I will roll on a pvp server then cry about being pvp'd.
I'm gald you made the right choice in moving to a pve server. For I had to deal with the cowards first hand in my guild. Me or others are getting camped, yet they wont lift a finger to come help. Thier precious rep grind of farming is to important than helping your guildmates. Then they cry the loudest when its them getting camped. And if nobody comes, they threaten to /gquit then rant abuot it on the guild forums.
Manning up? Against a player 55, again: FIFTYFIVE, lvls above me?
Pathetic, complaining about being corpsecamped by players 55, again: FIFTYFIVE, lvls above me?
Being killed the very instant I leave the starting area, by a player 55, again: FIFTYFIVE, lvls above me, that's ME being pathetic and blaming others for MY bad choices?
If a difference of 55 lvls, again: FIFTYFIVE, is your kind of PvP, then it's bloody obvious who the coward is.
Ah but Chryses the thing is. It doesn't have to be justified.
-----------------------------
Real as Reality Television!!!
Completely true...and sad
No. Some people like to hide the mean things they do under the guise of RP but in all reality I think RPing and Ganking is even worse. Sure you are Roleplaying and pretending to be someone you arn't but you are always responsible for your actions... always.
If you're a mean person than by all means gank away, but if moraly you feel like causing people grief is wrong then don't regardless of your "character". To pretening to be a monster will only make you into one.
I think you're missing an important detail here. It's a game.
You could play Habbo Hotel. You can't kill anyone in Habbo Hotel. You could play Darkfall. You can kill everyone in Darkfall.
In real life, you can't just quit and play on a different reality. (Well, maybe you can but most religions say you don't get into heaven if you commit suicide, and the game Hell doesn't have good reviews). This is why consequences don't work in games. Because players can quit and play something else, since it's a GAME and not reality.
So developers MUST design the games with any rules the players have to abide by hard coded into the game. Otherwise, players will break the rules that are not hard coded into the game, and when you punish them for it, they simply quit the game. What has that accomplished? Pissed off people paying the subscription, and pissed off people quitting the game, but that's about it.
So, you don't want ganking? Hard code that into the game. you want to allow ganking? Code taht into the game, and then realize players are going to do it if you let them, and that it's part of your design.
Don't want Ninja Looting? DDO solved that perfectly. A loot chest drops. Each player clicks on the loot chest and gets their pick of loot geared for thier character, i.e. fighters get swords not robes for clerics.
You want Ninja Looting? Then don't use this DDO model and have players bitching bout need before greed and "he stole my sword!" and crap like that. It's up to you, the developer.
Completely true...and sad
Sorry, but that doesn't work either. It's just futile to allow something, but at the same time have such harsh consequences no one will do it. What does that accomplish? Think about it a moment.
Ok, you COULD kill someone, but you lose your account if you do, so you won't. Why then allow it, since no one enjoying the game will do it? It's pointless.
Plus, guess who will do it? Those that don't enjoy the game, or for whatever reason are quitting, running out of money, bored with the game, moving to another game, etc. You know encourage them to do the thing you are trying to stop. Well, I'm quitting anyway, so might as well kill a few people before I go, since I could never use this feature before...
You can't model games after reality, unless you're going to kill the person playing the game in real life. You could strap them to a chair, and hook up electrodes to them, and shock them to death if they die in the game. THEN the game would work like real life, otherwise it won't.
lugal, you can repeat the same drivel over and over again, it doesn't make it any better. What you obviously can't get into your head is that (some) people LIKE to play on PvP because they like the challenge, the danger, whatever. What that however does not equate to is being ganked repeatedly (i.e. consecutively killed by a player with a much higher level or a group of players), corpse-camped to the point when the only thing you can do is exit the game and hope that when you log back on an hour later, that necrophiliac a-hole has moved on to give his tough love to some other poor lowbie or being followed by another player who swoops in to loot your kills, farms the resource nodes you just cleared etc.
I detest people who use the "I do it because I can" line of reasoning to rationalize harrassing and bullying others. Just because it is technically possible, doesn't make it morally right. This goes for real life as well. However, if you behave rudely to a real person, that person will likely find a way get rid of you, which is sometimes impossible in game.
In my experience 'gankers' are almost always what could be considered hardcore players. They know the mechanics of the game very well, the invest a more than average amount of time and consequently have great gear. Killing lower level players is no challange for them. None at all. Thus I fail to see what they accomplish by doing it, other than making someone else's life miserable.
Personally, I accept that I can get killed at any time while in enemy or contested territory. I go there at my own risk. However, if I consider corpse-camping to be harassment in most cases. I also realize that Blizzard does not! Of course it is much easier to 'legalize' this behaviour than to police it. (See WoW - Terms of Use 10C).
Again, the 'law' is on your side. Morality, however, imho is not.
In a open free for all game yes if you get also opposite, ANTI'S who make sure RPK'S will suffer YES.
But im affraid not many games left where this happen only game i have seen this way of play was asherons call.
Darkfall dont have it eather its a gankfest there without any anti to prefend that its all rpk, becouse of alignnment system and little to do then own hamlet/city join zergalliance there is zero anti vs rpk, blues are as bad and evil as red becouse of stupid pvp system in that game.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
lol not all nasty
Ganking is not killing players from an enemy guild, regardless of level; even I will take out a level 10 enemy player
However I do think you have point regarding players leaving from over ganking. There are few issues here I would like to list first. (my opinion only of course)
A) Players who join a game such as EVE or DF and venture off into lawless lands kinda take life into their own hands.
C) Full PvP or FFA PvP is not an excuse for killing new players in a new zone
*** Definition of ganking for me is a player(s) at a much higher level killing unknown lower level players continuously and camping rez pts.
Your Question:
In some ways I agree with you about driving players away. I personally know a lot of players that left a game or moved to a PvE server because of the attitude from a group of players. Best example I can think of is Vanguard. A whole guild I was in
e.g. crafting in a crafting hall and being killed repeatedly even though they gain nothing
e.g. Handing in missions or trying to hand in a mission and being killed repeatedly.
lugal, you can repeat the same drivel over and over again, it doesn't make it any better. What you obviously can't get into your head is that (some) people LIKE to play on PvP because they like the challenge, the danger, whatever. What that however does not equate to is being ganked repeatedly (i.e. consecutively killed by a player with a much higher level or a group of players), corpse-camped to the point when the only thing you can do is exit the game and hope that when you log back on an hour later, that necrophiliac a-hole has moved on to give his tough love to some other poor lowbie or being followed by another player who swoops in to loot your kills, farms the resource nodes you just cleared etc.
I detest people who use the "I do it because I can" line of reasoning to rationalize harrassing and bullying others. Just because it is technically possible, doesn't make it morally right. This goes for real life as well. However, if you behave rudely to a real person, that person will likely find a way get rid of you, which is sometimes impossible in game.
In my experience 'gankers' are almost always what could be considered hardcore players. They know the mechanics of the game very well, the invest a more than average amount of time and consequently have great gear. Killing lower level players is no challange for them. None at all. Thus I fail to see what they accomplish by doing it, other than making someone else's life miserable.
Personally, I accept that I can get killed at any time while in enemy or contested territory. I go there at my own risk. However, if I consider corpse-camping to be harassment in most cases. I also realize that Blizzard does not! Of course it is much easier to 'legalize' this behaviour than to police it. (See WoW - Terms of Use 10C).
Again, the 'law' is on your side. Morality, however, imho is not.
So, others who accept the consequences of rolling on a pvp server should be at fault when somebody who doesnt and gets bvtt hurt about being pvp'd? I repeat the drivel cuz the blame also belongs to the idiot who rolls on a pvp server yet cant take it.
People need to stop blaming others for actions they facilitated. Yeah, camping is lame and stupid. have I done it, heck yeah. Will I do it again, more likely than the stimulas saving the economy. The point is, ganking takes 2. You are at fault as much as the ganker. Now, you play a MMO and have no guild or friends cuz you want to play "solo", good luck with pvp. Everytime I was in trouble, I had friends to call on. I'd be willing to bet that many of the whinners and cowards have a lack of interpersonal skills that inhibits thier ability to make friends in an MMO.
Does ganking have a place in a RP server, hell yeah. I played on a pvp RP server in AoC. The guild had a no camping/ganking rule. The exception was for guilds we were at war with or people who had NON RP NAMES.
Gank away pvpers, the more they whine, the better we feel.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley
lugal is right, if you don't wish to pvp you roll pve,
Don't complain about being camped in wow, you can't get camped in wow, you can res miles away from your corpse, it doesn't take more than like 4-5 deaths to get to any friendly town and get out of the zone.
I personally rolled pvp to play the hunted, I was bored of mindlessly grinding mobs and I loved the fact that someone could come along and change the pace, it may have been a good experience for me because I was playing a mage (totally op class for those that don't play wow) , even though I did die quite a few times.
The difference between the whiners and the people that enjoy it seems to be as follows:
Whiners give up, pvpers search for solutions.
Call your guild, call your friends, call strangers out to kill some gankers, res at a different graveyard, take a flight / hearth out of the zone (in wow there were multiple areas to level always, usually one was emptier than another) go to a safe(r) area, or at extremes, log an alt or go make a sandwich. If the game is geting you stressed out you need to take a step back anyway.
Anyway, wow is a bad example of pvp
in a real pvp game even players that havent been playing for a long time can and should be a threat, ie EVE, where a freshly made character (these days) can scout or tackle with ease.
Whiners don't seem to realise what the second m in mmo is. you can't solve all your problems alone.
<Welcome to my world>
PvP according to "The Noob"
Back in the old days of EQ i played on a PvP server called Vallon Zek. This was before expansions.
The server pvp system were as follows. You could only attack somebody 2 levels lower or 2 levels above you. Anybody else were immune to attacks. That meant no level 50 ganking level 10's
Back then you could loot 1 item of the enemies corpses and all their coins. The only items you were not allowed to touch was what was in bags. So naturally when facing a losing battle or for some..just any kind of PvP (boggles me why PvP shy people would play on a PvP server to begin with but w/e) people would quickly bag whatever valuable items they were wearing and let themselves die or try and put up a fight before dying.
The server had 3 or 4 factions i can't remember but were ultimately decided by the playerbase to be down between good vs evil. Evil being darkelves trolls ogres iksars. Good being humans elves gnomes halflings dwarves.
Now that there is a little background story ...here comes the point
I was in a RP guild that followed the PvP lore of there being 4 factions ..everybody else cross teamed because they the players, had made it into 2 factions for the sake of PvE and Carebear style of play. We would hunt these cross teamers down and kill them in force. Regular twinked out gank squads. We pissed people off and got nasty tells why we would ruin somebody's carebear PvE fun. We would tell them to loot their corpses and have safe passage away from the area..a system upheld by the whole community called "loot and scoot" ..Since we were the "bad guys" we often saw people to refusing out of anger. So we would corpse camp them for hours sometimes until they got the point we were serious. If they brought a highlevel friend we would do the same.
We killed you for associating with the enemy team. Obviously we couldn't hurt our own faction but we could do the next best thing..kill the rest of the heathens and then give a stout lecture to whatever team member caught breaking "our rules".
We helped out newbies with gear and sometimes levelled them a bit. We taught them about our motto and the evil ways of cross teaming. We had a whole propaganda system going lol. Best fun i ever had. We were not hated by all ..some thought it was cool we were around to make things interesting..but the carebears certainly hated us. We were what you would call a "purist" guild. Ingame racism if you like only kept between the factions. We didn't attack the opposing teams if they stuck to their own.
My answer is yes you can roleplay a harcore PvP ganker. We did it.
Were we bullies...check...were we imposing our rules on the rest of the player community...check. Were we unfair...check.
The thing people need to realize that PvP is not about being fair..it's not about bowing down before eachother asking the other person if he feels like a fight today...it is not about taking you extremely overpowered hatchet off to even the playing field...it is PvP...any time any place...prepared or not prepared.
This pussified PvP i see today where you consent to every fight you participate in is watered down for the carebears all for the sake of mainstreaming it. I hate it and i avoid games that has it. WoW is a great example of it. You have neat little contested zones and safe zones..you have battlegrounds and arenas ..The only interesting PvP you see in WoW is the occational random world pvp encounter. The game has zero consequences..you die you resurrect that's it. Pussified for the whining weakling that can't handle a little adrenaline rush. If you complain about WoW PvP then i will do something i don't do often. Stoop to insults where i call you a tool. If you one day get to experience what i would call "real pvp" then i might take you serious. Might
PvP is mean, it's nasty and you should care about losing. Not like WoW where losing is like losing a hand in a go fish card game. It's not for everybody..it's not suppose to be. It's for people who like to be hunted and hunt themselves. I enjoy both. People who has only tried the watered down PvP system we see in todays MMOs with a few exceptions... has never faced an adrenaline kick from running into somebody who wants you dead. You simply won't understand why it can be so much fun..both being the hunted and the hunter. This is because you want to sit in your own safe little bubble where YOU decide when and where a battle should take place. This will never be true PvP in my eyes ganking or no ganking.
Which was, I believe, my point.