I should have done some basic reading - MO is going to wipe the floor with DF

Rekindle

Neutral/Blue players are innocent (well, as innocent as they get) and it’s not ok for you to damage them. You may not steal from them, or cast suspicious spells on them either. Nor poison them. If you do so, you become Allowed/Grey. Kill enough of them and you will eventually be flagged as a Murderer/Red.

Allowed/Gray players have behaved badly in some way against you or someone else in the last few minutes, meaning you can attack them without becoming Grey for everybody else. But remember, if you attack them first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)

Murderers/Red players have committed several murders, and you better look out for them. You can attack them without turning Grey for everybody else, but if you attack first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)

 

H_Callahan

And there will be players that will find a way around any given system, also at Mortal Online.

Rekindle

yes but at least that developer understands.

H_Callahan

Exploiting a given mechanic isn't better due to the fact that a set of dev's build up a flagging system that makes sense in the mind of some people. 

 

The result is still the same

Kyleran

Sounds pretty good, will be interesting to see how well it turns out once implemented.

 

dummenumse

Originally posted by Rekindle


Neutral/Blue players are innocent (well, as innocent as they get) and it’s not ok for you to damage them. You may not steal from them, or cast suspicious spells on them either. Nor poison them. If you do so, you become Allowed/Grey. Kill enough of them and you will eventually be flagged as a Murderer/Red.
Allowed/Gray players have behaved badly in some way against you or someone else in the last few minutes, meaning you can attack them without becoming Grey for everybody else. But remember, if you attack them first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)
Murderers/Red players have committed several murders, and you better look out for them. You can attack them without turning Grey for everybody else, but if you attack first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)

 

 

On a totally unrelated sidenote Mortal Online will feature stat penalties for killing other players. Not very cool if they want to make a free sandbox world like Darkfall. 

 

And oh, the game will only feature small battles as the engine cant render too large groups. 

 

Just think the graphics have marvelled people about MO. Nobody knows how anything works in this game yet or whether it will function well.

 

So I do not agree with you troll-bait statement of a title. MO does not whipe the floor with Darkfall.

Rekindle

well this system has been around since the UO days -- it IS the UO flagging system and it seems to work as a natural aligment mechanism that is an extenstion of players actions on themselves and others.

 

The fact AV didnt see that should have sent the bells ringing.

Draklon

Sounds like UO's system.

Rekindle

Originally posted by dummenumse

Originally posted by Rekindle


Neutral/Blue players are innocent (well, as innocent as they get) and it’s not ok for you to damage them. You may not steal from them, or cast suspicious spells on them either. Nor poison them. If you do so, you become Allowed/Grey. Kill enough of them and you will eventually be flagged as a Murderer/Red.
Allowed/Gray players have behaved badly in some way against you or someone else in the last few minutes, meaning you can attack them without becoming Grey for everybody else. But remember, if you attack them first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)
Murderers/Red players have committed several murders, and you better look out for them. You can attack them without turning Grey for everybody else, but if you attack first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)

 

 

On a totally unrelated sidenote Mortal Online will feature stat penalties for killing other players. Not very cool if they want to make a free sandbox world like Darkfall. 

 

And oh, the game will only feature small battles as the engine cant render too large groups. 

 

Just think the graphics have marvelled people about MO. Nobody knows how anything works in this game yet or whether it will function well.

 

So I do not agree with you troll-bait statement of a title. MO does not whipe the floor with Darkfall.

 

 

whos baiting who here?

i played DF I see how AV is handling this "launch".

dummenumse

Originally posted by Rekindle

Originally posted by dummenumse

Originally posted by Rekindle


Neutral/Blue players are innocent (well, as innocent as they get) and it’s not ok for you to damage them. You may not steal from them, or cast suspicious spells on them either. Nor poison them. If you do so, you become Allowed/Grey. Kill enough of them and you will eventually be flagged as a Murderer/Red.
Allowed/Gray players have behaved badly in some way against you or someone else in the last few minutes, meaning you can attack them without becoming Grey for everybody else. But remember, if you attack them first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)
Murderers/Red players have committed several murders, and you better look out for them. You can attack them without turning Grey for everybody else, but if you attack first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)

 

 

On a totally unrelated sidenote Mortal Online will feature stat penalties for killing other players. Not very cool if they want to make a free sandbox world like Darkfall. 

 

And oh, the game will only feature small battles as the engine cant render too large groups. 

 

Just think the graphics have marvelled people about MO. Nobody knows how anything works in this game yet or whether it will function well.

 

So I do not agree with you troll-bait statement of a title. MO does not whipe the floor with Darkfall.

 

 

whos baiting who here?

i played DF I see how AV is handling this "launch".

 

Think that you are pushing it by saying that the flagging system alone makes MO vastly superior.

 

 

Paragus1

I'll be interested to see how it all plays out, and hopefully the game will do well.  The more games that do not follow the theme-park model, the better we will all be.

That being said, haven't you learned anything from hanging out in these forums?   Cross forum posting is one of the reasons so many haters have flocked to the Darkfall forums to pounce on the game.  By making posts like this here, you are only continuing a cycle of bandwagon trolling.   I think this would be better off in the MO forum.

The graphics looks decent, but as someone said I think until we see how the engine handles a lot of people on the screen, it's a bit too early to pass judgement.  FFA games will have large scale battles, whether it is intended or not.

You guys should also remember that almost every dev to make an MMO has not delivered on promised features going all the way back to EQ1, which is another thing most people should know who post especially here.   So let's wait until the beta opens up and we get to play it before we start shoveliong dirt on one MMO because the maker of another said something.

Valetman

In all fairness, MO is currently just a string of dev promises, like every other in devleopment MMO has ever been.

 

To say it is rare that any MMO turns out to match the promises would be an understatement, it has never hapenned. Even WoW, with as close to umlimited time and money as a game development team will ever get, cut stuff before launch.

 

Having said that, no amount of harping on about exploits (which I agree will happen in any system) will take away from the fact that it simply IS a better alignment system than Darkfall.

The most laughable thing about 'Hardcore' darkfall is it has an inbuilt game mechanic for removing the consequences of same race killing before you do it, and by farming afk players to gain positive alignment, without any risk whatsoever.

 

Some of that is another set of players exploiting the system, some of that is purely bad design.

Axllow18

Originally posted by dummenumse

Originally posted by Rekindle


Neutral/Blue players are innocent (well, as innocent as they get) and it’s not ok for you to damage them. You may not steal from them, or cast suspicious spells on them either. Nor poison them. If you do so, you become Allowed/Grey. Kill enough of them and you will eventually be flagged as a Murderer/Red.
Allowed/Gray players have behaved badly in some way against you or someone else in the last few minutes, meaning you can attack them without becoming Grey for everybody else. But remember, if you attack them first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)
Murderers/Red players have committed several murders, and you better look out for them. You can attack them without turning Grey for everybody else, but if you attack first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)

 

 

On a totally unrelated sidenote Mortal Online will feature stat penalties for killing other players. Not very cool if they want to make a free sandbox world like Darkfall. I've read quite a bit on MO and never seen where this was listed. Can you please provide a link to back this statement up?

 

And oh, the game will only feature small battles as the engine cant render too large groups. Actually the Unreal Engine has absolutely no problem with rendering largescale numbers, I dont know who misinformed you of this but seeing as Unreal has been used in many games where largescale is common I assume you didnt know this?

Also the developers of MO have already said several times the scale of the game and battles would not be limited, so it seems that the people who actually work with the engine disagree with you.

 

Just think the graphics have marvelled people about MO. Nobody knows how anything works in this game yet or whether it will function well.  True, we have yet to see.

 

So I do not agree with you troll-bait statement of a title. MO does not whipe the floor with Darkfall. True again, we dont know yet what MO will have to offer yet. Will it mop the floor with DF? Will MO fail and be crap compared to DF? We dont know either of these things yet. We'll find out soon enough.

 

Understand Im not attacking your post Im just saying what I know, if you can provide me with direct links to the developers stating against what I said please do.

Axllow18

Originally posted by Paragus1


I'll be interested to see how it all plays out, and hopefully the game will do well.  The more games that do not follow the theme-park model, the better we will all be.
That being said, haven't you learned anything from hanging out in these forums?   Cross forum posting is one of the reasons so many haters have flocked to the Darkfall forums to pounce on the game.  By making posts like this here, you are only continuing a cycle of bandwagon trolling.   I think this would be better off in the MO forum.
The graphics looks decent, but as someone said I think until we see how the engine handles a lot of people on the screen, it's a bit too early to pass judgement.  FFA games will have large scale battles, whether it is intended or not.
You guys should also remember that almost every dev to make an MMO has not delivered on promised features going all the way back to EQ1, which is another thing most people should know who post especially here.   So let's wait until the beta opens up and we get to play it before we start shoveliong dirt on one MMO because the maker of another said something.

 

I couldnt have said it better myself, well put mate.

aqua61209

Gurantee half the crap being "implemented" wont be! Thats what they do! Get you hooked on wanting to play, you buy it and they dont deliver. Prepare to be disappointed MO fans

nethervoid

Originally posted by Valetman


In all fairness, MO is currently just a string of dev promises, like every other in devleopment MMO has ever been.
To say it is rare that any MMO turns out to match the promises would be an understatement, it has never hapenned. Even WoW, with as close to umlimited time and money as a game development team will ever get, cut stuff before launch.

QFT.  This is exactly what I was going to say.  It's to the point where I don't even follow a game until it's released or if I can get into beta.  It's pointless to read a feature list before a game is actually out.

Ihmotepp

Originally posted by H_Callahan


And there will be players that will find a way around any given system, also at Mortal Online.

 

IMO, there are several reasons FFA just doesn't work very well in MMORPGs.

FFA works in FPS games, because there is no real progression. Everyone has the same hit points, and does close to the same damage. There's no advantage, except your ability to use the keyboard. It's all about killing, getting killed, and respawing and doing it again over and over till your fingers hurt. Fun, yes, but not the same thing as building an RPG character in a game like KOTOR, or an MMORPG character in a game like DAoC, WoW, EQ, etc.

IN an RPG your character progresses over time, whether in skills, or levels. You get stronger. If not, it's just an FPS.

And there's the problem. IF you have no restrictions, it becomes a gankfest. Stronger characters gank weaker characters over and over.

However, if you have restrictions that matter, you take away the fun of fighting. And isn't that the whole point of a PVP game, that you are SUPPOSED to kill each other?

So what's the point of allowing you to kill someone, and then giving you such a penalty for doing it that it's not worth it?

And realistic penalities dont' work. IN the real world people go to jail for committing "crimes". In the online world, if you make the game not fun, people quit paying sub fees and play something else.

Best solution to date, IMO, is RVR when it comes to RPG games where characters increase in ability. FFA works best for twitch games like First Person Shooters.

Both are fun, but when you make the

Rekindle

Originally posted by Valetman


In all fairness, MO is currently just a string of dev promises, like every other in devleopment MMO has ever been.
 
To say it is rare that any MMO turns out to match the promises would be an understatement, it has never hapenned. Even WoW, with as close to umlimited time and money as a game development team will ever get, cut stuff before launch.
 
Having said that, no amount of harping on about exploits (which I agree will happen in any system) will take away from the fact that it simply IS a better alignment system than Darkfall.
The most laughable thing about 'Hardcore' darkfall is it has an inbuilt game mechanic for removing the consequences of same race killing before you do it, and by farming afk players to gain positive alignment, without any risk whatsoever.
 
Some of that is another set of players exploiting the system, some of that is purely bad design.

 

well said.

jonyak

I think the problem is in how people view these games.

 

UO was not made as a PVP game. it was made as an RPG. A game where you play a role. unfortunately when you put hyper competitive people into these kinds of games they become PVP games.

the problem is, noone wants an RPG. at least thats how it seems. and any RPG that gets made, is going to be invaded by peopel that want a PVP.

Rekindle

my data source is

 

http://www.mortalonline.com/combat/flagging

Rekindle

Originally posted by jonyak


I think the problem is in how people view these games.
 
UO was not made as a PVP game. it was made as an RPG. A game where you play a role. unfortunately when you put hyper competitive people into these kinds of games they become PVP games.
the problem is, noone wants an RPG. at least thats how it seems. and any RPG that gets made, is going to be invaded by peopel that want a PVP.

 

i cant stop quoting awesome statements.

WSIMike

Originally posted by Rekindle


Neutral/Blue players are innocent (well, as innocent as they get) and it’s not ok for you to damage them. You may not steal from them, or cast suspicious spells on them either. Nor poison them. If you do so, you become Allowed/Grey. Kill enough of them and you will eventually be flagged as a Murderer/Red.
Allowed/Gray players have behaved badly in some way against you or someone else in the last few minutes, meaning you can attack them without becoming Grey for everybody else. But remember, if you attack them first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)
Murderers/Red players have committed several murders, and you better look out for them. You can attack them without turning Grey for everybody else, but if you attack first, they have the right to attack you back! (Meaning they see you as Grey.)

 

 

Seems very similar to Lineage 2's karma system.

The difference in L2 is that if you go "red/chaotic" in L2 and already have 5 or more PK's (it keeps track), and someone kills you,  you "pop like a pinata" as they say, dropping potentially multiple items - including potentially expensive gear. It does give people pause before they decide to go screwing with people... especially if they don't know whether they can beat you or not.



It's true, though, that people can find work-arounds with any penalty/flagging system. I think what has had a stronger affect on people's behavior in  L2 isn't so much the karma system, but the potential repercussions of screwing with the wrong person/people - say, un-tagged alts of a very powerful clan or ally. You could end up with a very nasty war on your hands, and some clans simply aren't prepared to deal with that.

In any case, it's a good system overall... but I think MO should have some kind of extra disincentive to abusing "going red" - such as loss of gear if killed as in L2. People think nothing of going red - some wear it as a badge, in fact, if there's no "physical" penalties. Add the risk of losing potentially valuable items and it makes it a bit more meaningful.

 

Rekindle

Im ok with going red with no stat loss...UO could have, and maybe should have, done away with long term counts.

Its the fundamental concept that I want to see. You do wrong you get spanked. If you dont have that  you're just begging for grief.

 

If there's a system in a game it will get used. If there are corners they will be taken. If people can, they will. thats why even Sandbox needs some type of regulation that id's agressor and agressee and dishes out ramifications accordingly. Without it my time is given up to a zerg fest of people playing Quake Arena......because they can.

 

I went grey so many times and nothing happened. But 1/10 times or less you get reminded of your infraction :P

asdar

Hopefully it will do well. I'm not a fan of classes, so I'd rather Darkfall shaped up into the game the dev's want it to be.

As for FFA in MMO's I think that's a false point. Not everyone will like a game with FFA PvP, but Eve is a pretty clear example that it can be successful.

Sad_Panda

In the alpha flagging system (there's a pdf, you'll have to search the official forums to find it) it basically states that red/murderer flagged characters may be subject to statloss.  A dev has said that if you're killed while flagged in that way, you'll induce statloss.  Whether it's temporary or permanent (until you train them back) and how much skill you lose is unkown at this point.

aZzAY

Darkfall will get destroyed by MO, that's for sure.