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Cryptic's Latest Statement on Interiors Controversy
warrior41
Member Posts: 65
From the official site words of Craig Zinkavech:
There will be plenty of interiors in the game at launch - there are plenty in the game right now and I don't see them going anywhere. : )
You will be taken to interiors during instanced missions. You'll go to them in persistent ways as well - mostly social, but also in other cases that I'm going to be vague about right now on purpose : ) - There are starbases, satellites, ship interiors (yes, ships), buildings on the ground, caverns under the earth or deep in asteroids - all sorts of places you'll adventure within interiors.
Sadly, what we won't have at launch is the ability for you to customize your own ship, invite other players over and walkaround, seeing hundreds of NPC crew members and investigate every nook, cranny and Jefferies tube on it. We want to make sure that when we a feature like this in, it is a robust system that people will love, not just a marketing bullet point on the back of the box.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? DOES IT SAY ANYTHING NEW?
Comments
It says:
"You ain't getting the interiors you want at launch, and although you probably never will, we're going to start dangling the carrot right now so you still buy the game out of futile hope.".
What you say has a ring of truth to it. But I still will probably buy STO and wait a year or so for the expansion that adds interiors.
But maybe that is just clinging to a futile hope.
it will come. no matter how many players doubt it, it will come
Nothing new for those of us who get their information from the official website and not from the myth creators here. I remember that statement and it was said quite awhile ago. There was also another one where they said they were planning to show every noot and kranny of the jeffries tube once they are able to do the interiors THE RIGHT WAY. But I'm sure some naysayer will be along to tell us how it is all a lie.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I'm not going to naysay, maybe the developers will do it "THE RIGHT WAY" eventually but until the game appeals to me I personally won't be touching it. In my experience most MMORPG's don't even get all there planned features into the finished product let alone features they are talking of introducing later. You just shouldn't part with your money based on promises of receiving what you want in the future. When I'm satisified the game is worth what they will ask me to pay to play it (if that be at launch or a few months down the track) than I'll happily part with my money but there is no way I'm going to pay until I think I'll enjoy the game for its current merits not promises of future merits.
I don't think they could make it much clearer in terms of what you will, and won't be able to do at launch.
So what controversy?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think the "controversy" refered to by the OP is just the differing opinions and hopes of what STO would be at launch, since the STO forums here, have kind of be domminated by that issue.
City of Heroes didn't have capes or bases, but now it does. I think eventually they will add this, as shows the track record of cryptic studios. Of course there has to be some point to having you walk around your own ship, and it took awhile for CITY OF HEROES to eventually have a reason to give players BASES.....which allows them to PVP, store enhancements, and customize, along with a bunch of other things....
similiarly, I think Star Trek Online will have to evolve before they need to add this to make the game more complicated, because at launch Cryptic Studios has a good track record of making simple yet good balanced game play.....that is graphically appealing....
Star Trek Online is definitely a MMORPG to look forward to IMHO
==========================
The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
Still sounds like City of Heroes in space to me.
1.Pick up random door (planet) mission
2.Travel to mission, run mission (wow, linear repetative gameplay. See point A to Point
3.Finish mission, hurray!
4.Repeat
City of Heroes had capes in beta, I should know I had one.
Anyway back on topic. The quote about interiors is pie in the sky imo. When STO allows me to walk about my own ship with my friends and fly to other planets, beam down to the surface, do a quest then beam back and go for a drink in 10 forward THEN I will buy it. Until that day it's staying on the shop shelf and I would bet thats where it will always remain for me.
Star Trek without the ability to do all this is not Star trek, despite the games title.
^ Agreed.
I think that waiting for "the right way" features is a waste of time and money. Capes, Bases and playable villains were all added into City of Heroes eventually, they were all things that were waiting to be done THE RIGHT WAY, but I wasn't overly impressed with the latter two. The Trek experience revolves around the ship. The STO experience revolves around the Captain. It's a different experience altogether. A different franchise to some. You can't add in a sort of walkaround starship add on later and expect it to be awesome, balanced, useful and universally fun. If its not a priority now, it won't be later, it'll be peripheral, and, like the 'right way' features of CoH, not necessary to enjoy the best of what the game has to offer.
The Illusion of Choice
Didnt Cryptic take over or buy CoX from someone else? Isnt that when capes and bases and bad guys started coming in? Im hoping Cryptic does all they can for launch but I think theres only so much that can be done before and deadline, and only so much you WANT to do before launch so that people can learn to play and teach new people to play and THEN add newer fresh content. I think this is what many other good games have done such as everquest 1 and 2, LoTRO seems to be doing that now. I think this strategy also gives you a chance to find out what works in real game play (not just a beta) and helps them to make changes that are hopefully meaningful and good. I will of course give STO a chance to prove itself and I think if it doesnt people will quit playing.
Cryptic sold CoX to their publisher, NCSoft, and then went self publishing. They left after they had put in their 'right way' features.
Many games add newer fresh content to their game, however very few add brand new systems of play, and when they do, these systems are more often than not lackluster, below spec and imbalanced, because they are big enough to be part of the core game, but the core game was not designed with the new experience in mind.
Take CoH for example. They planned for capes from Day 1, they made sure that no geometry could be created on characters that would interfere with a cape. When capes, a relatively small thing actually, came out, they were very good, because the original game had been designed around them.
When they did Villains, and held off on them, waiting to do them 'right' Cryptic found that integrating villains into Paragon City was impossible, there was no room for them and all the ugly PvP questions they had brought with them. So... they just created a mirror City of Villains for bad guys... a place where they could be very dark versions of heroes. It was as fun as CoH, but it wasn't very villainous. This was something that had waited to 'do right' and there wasn't room in the game for it do be done right. It had to be a separate game to even approach being done right. Then players met in war zones for RvR combat. How many times has Jack said that PvP should have been in from the start?
When they did bases, they completely missed the balance mark of how much base players would be able to afford. It took them a while to fix it, too. It was 'done right' but not being a part of the core game made it untenable for many players.
If something's not in the core design, it becomes peripheral, like a mini game. If they try to add something to the core design that wasn't intended to be there from the start, it always comes out looking weak, if not plain old no fun.
The Illusion of Choice
I guess the guild halls of EQ2 where probably something they made room for in the core of the game then, cause they turned out great after 5 years of waiting for them. Maybe Cryptic will do kind of the same thing so that they can seemlessly(ish) add to the interiors. At least they seem to be writing PvP (even though IMO PvP is ALWAYS unbalanced and crappy in these kinds of MMOs) into the game already and they wont have the problems CoX has had with it. I for one (not knowing anything about CPUs) hope they do write all those basic things we all want into the core of the game like your saying. I have high hopes for the game anyway it goes. As from my other posts elswhere I have said many times Im just sick to death of fairies and elves and dragons and magons (see Thr33 on Youtube for the definition of Magon). I just wanna shoot lasers and ride antigravity bikes of ANY kind lol.
Hi ya all.... I been away for a long time.
I hope the writing/story is better than I am anticipating.
My torch is still burning. Can't wait till the game is on my harddrive.
Yes, ship Interiors will be in the game at launch.
But they are NOT the type and kind of Ship Interiors that some of us RolePlayers would have wished for. We would have rather seen Ships as a Multi-Player vehicle (potentially even shuttlecraft). That means that Players would make up the Bridge Crew and the Department Heads of Engineering, Science, Astrometrics, Armory/Security, etc., with NPC "Redshirts" making up the rest of the crew. This is not what is being planned however, so the Developers stating that "Ship Interiors will indeed be in at Launch" misses the point. STO is fundenmentally being designed wrong from a Roleplay perspective when taking into account the Star Trek Canon. Nowhere in the TV series or the Movies did Star Trek ever give the impression that only the Captain mattered.
Other than this very important game-breaking point (for myself anyway), STO will indeed have a number of really good features that should provide many Players thousands of hours of enjoyment. For a roleplayer such as myself, and as a Star Trek fan of 40 years, STO's present design philosophy falls far too short of what it could have been, and what it should have been.
As for some features coming out in future updates/expansions...I say HOGWASH. This is 2009. MMORPG's as a genre are now over 15 years old. It is time for Developers and Game Publishers to produce a MMORPG product that are complete at Launch. I am sick of paying for the priveledge to beta test a game that should have already been complete and far too many MMOs are released incomplete presently.
Designing for RP died sometime after WOW was launched. Yeah the occasional nod is given in a RP direction but is so far down on the list these days it usually drops of.
Ask yourself what other games Star Trek is starting to look like? All MMO’s now look to teenage single player games for their format not the old style social RP concept. ST is going to be a first person space shooter with just enough other elements so they can call it a MMO.
That’s the MMO world we live in now; RP is a dirty word in marketing. They will just look at you like you are a dinosaur. I think it’s likely that more interiors will come as an upgrade after game launch. My prediction would be a year after game launch, remember role-playing is not as important as blast erm, and other priories for updates will all get done first.
The only way ANY game can be designed, and survive in the market, with having "roleplay" specific features is if said features also can provide decent game play for the non-roleplayers as well., don't conflict with game play for non-Rpers, or don't take developer time and resources away from making sure all the game play elements planned for are in the game. The reason being is that "roleplayers" are a very small proportion of the players in any game.
This was evident before WoW came out. The first big failure because of a game catering too much to roleplayers was SWG, where @700 to 800K people that were anticipating a fun Star Wars game to play bought the box, logged into the game, and were hit over the head with a very boring and grindfilled game, awful mechanics, convoluted and useless classes, and everyone that was bothering to stay playing seemingly only wanting to stand around and yap instead of play the game. So those 700 to 800K didn't even stick around long enough to pay for their first paid month, and the game was bleeding @10K subscriptions a month after that.
The reason for interiors and player crews not being in STO at launch have been made clear, and they correspond with what I said above, if one is paying attention to what's being said that is.
They have to make sure that they have the game play elements in the game that will satisfy the non-RPer, and they have to remain within their budget. That's the reality of business, and in the end that's what these companies are, businesses. These companies don't make these games on air, and they don't make them as some kind of altruistic exercise. They have a budget and a time frame to work with. They can't get everything and the kitchen sink in before release. They have to prioritize and make sure they get in what they feel is most important to get in. That some feel they're wrong in their priorities is evident, but clearly the company has data which supports their decisions. They're dealing with tens of millions of dollars to get one of these games out, you can be sure they don't just make these decisions by putting on a blindfold and throwing darts at a list.
Gamers won't care all that much that every ship won't have open world explorable ship interiors. To them it'll just be a feature they rarely, if ever more than once, would experience. Add to that to implement them properly is going to take a great deal of developer time and resources. Therefor, it's a feature that can be left out at release, and once the game is chugging along and the revenue is coming in they can allocate those resources and allot that time to do them right. The sad part of all this is people aren't giving Cryptic the credit they deserve due to them saying that they do want to get them in the game after launch, and want to do them very well. They could just as easily close the door on them completely.
Player crews not being in the game at launch ties into the same things I talked about as well. They haven't been able to come up with a way to have player crews that provide engaging game play for non-RPers. That means player crews would be a feature enjoyed mainly by RPers only, and in fact would be a negative game play element for non-RPers. So again, game play wins out, and also again, Cryptic doesn't get the credit for not closing the door on player crews completely and stating that they're in fact leaving the door open for them being a possibility as they design.
I remember hearing the same thing from Blizzard regarding housing in WoW. "We'll be adding that later......."
Honestly, i had a YT-1300 (Millenium Falcon) in SWG and i could just walk around inside it, but after about 5 minutes, it was boring.
Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
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Yup, and that would be a very successful approach if their target audience wasn't already hyper-saturated with offerings. As it is most MMO's entering the market today are either very limited successes or out and out financial failures. Just too many lures in the water...all angling for the same limited pool of fish.
The next big success will be the one that appeals to a different audience then the others.... it won't be STO.
The only way ANY game can be designed, and survive in the market, with having "roleplay" specific features is if said features also can provide decent game play for the non-roleplayers as well., don't conflict with game play for non-Rpers, or don't take developer time and resources away from making sure all the game play elements planned for are in the game. The reason being is that "roleplayers" are a very small proportion of the players in any game.
This was evident before WoW came out. The first big failure because of a game catering too much to roleplayers was SWG, where @700 to 800K people that were anticipating a fun Star Wars game to play bought the box, logged into the game, and were hit over the head with a very boring and grindfilled game, awful mechanics, convoluted and useless classes, and everyone that was bothering to stay playing seemingly only wanting to stand around and yap instead of play the game. So those 700 to 800K didn't even stick around long enough to pay for their first paid month, and the game was bleeding @10K subscriptions a month after that.
The reason for interiors and player crews not being in STO at launch have been made clear, and they correspond with what I said above, if one is paying attention to what's being said that is.
They have to make sure that they have the game play elements in the game that will satisfy the non-RPer, and they have to remain within their budget. That's the reality of business, and in the end that's what these companies are, businesses. These companies don't make these games on air, and they don't make them as some kind of altruistic exercise. They have a budget and a time frame to work with. They can't get everything and the kitchen sink in before release. They have to prioritize and make sure they get in what they feel is most important to get in. That some feel they're wrong in their priorities is evident, but clearly the company has data which supports their decisions. They're dealing with tens of millions of dollars to get one of these games out, you can be sure they don't just make these decisions by putting on a blindfold and throwing darts at a list.
Gamers won't care all that much that every ship won't have open world explorable ship interiors. To them it'll just be a feature they rarely, if ever more than once, would experience. Add to that to implement them properly is going to take a great deal of developer time and resources. Therefor, it's a feature that can be left out at release, and once the game is chugging along and the revenue is coming in they can allocate those resources and allot that time to do them right. The sad part of all this is people aren't giving Cryptic the credit they deserve due to them saying that they do want to get them in the game after launch, and want to do them very well. They could just as easily close the door on them completely.
Player crews not being in the game at launch ties into the same things I talked about as well. They haven't been able to come up with a way to have player crews that provide engaging game play for non-RPers. That means player crews would be a feature enjoyed mainly by RPers only, and in fact would be a negative game play element for non-RPers. So again, game play wins out, and also again, Cryptic doesn't get the credit for not closing the door on player crews completely and stating that they're in fact leaving the door open for them being a possibility as they design.
Ok, I respect you as a Gamer and as a Person, but I disagree.
I play MMORPGs. Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games. Any Game that calls itself a "MMORPG" by default should be designed as a Role Playing Game that is Online and with the ability to have massive amounts of Players ingame at once working either together toward a goal or solo (multiplayer). Note the Adjectives Massively, Multiplayer, and Online...they are used to describe the term "Role Playing Game".
By Definition then, any online game that either claims or even pretends to be a MMORPG should be designed first and foremost as a Role Playing Game, and then they can add a great combat system, lots of action, crafting, and the rest of the bells and whistles. It does NOT matter that the Dev Teams of the games pretending to be MMORPGs released in the last few years have forgotten this simple and basic fact about MMORPGs. It does NOT matter that some players do not like or enjoy Roleplay activities in a MMORPG. If Dev Teams and Players don't want RolePlay to be the priority in MMORPG development, then they should get out of the MMORPG Genre. They will be happy they did.
If someone decides to leave the genre then I will be glad they left. I am tired of explaining to people why Roleplay in a MMORPG is the number reason for the existance of MMORPG's in the first place. I am also tired of defending a concept so basic to MMORPGs that it should never have to be defended as it should have never been forgotten in the first place.
Players.......Don't like Roleplay in MMORPGs? Then go play some other type of game.
Developers........Don't like to design and develop your MMO with RolePlay as the primary feature? Then go develop another type of game.
And this website is named "MMORPG.Com" and I come here to discuss MMORPG's and how they should be improved within the original genre....if you are here to destroy MMORPGs or morph them into something they were not intended to be, then go to another website.
Concerning the marketing of MMORPGs.....Never was the marketing of a true MMORPG ever an issue until WoW and the clones that followed. If a true MMORPG is ever developed and released again, it will survive due to it's quality and it's Roleplay priority in develpoment of it's features, not due to any bean counter's wild ideas of what Players of MMORPGs want in their games.
Ok, I respect you as a Gamer and as a Person, but I disagree.
I play MMORPGs. Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games. Any Game that calls itself a "MMORPG" by default should be designed as a Role Playing Game that is Online and with the ability to have massive amounts of Players ingame at once working either together toward a goal or solo (multiplayer). Note the Adjectives Massively, Multiplayer, and Online...they are used to describe the term "Role Playing Game".
By Definition then, any online game that either claims or even pretends to be a MMORPG should be designed first and foremost as a Role Playing Game, and then they can add a great combat system, lots of action, crafting, and the rest of the bells and whistles. It does NOT matter that the Dev Teams of the games pretending to be MMORPGs released in the last few years have forgotten this simple and basic fact about MMORPGs. It does NOT matter that some players do not like or enjoy Roleplay activities in a MMORPG. If Dev Teams and Players don't want RolePlay to be the priority in MMORPG development, then they should get out of the MMORPG Genre. They will be happy they did.
If someone decides to leave the genre then I will be glad they left. I am tired of explaining to people why Roleplay in a MMORPG is the number reason for the existance of MMORPG's in the first place. I am also tired of defending a concept so basic to MMORPGs that it should never have to be defended as it should have never been forgotten in the first place.
Don't like Roleplay in MMORPGs? Then go play some other type of game.
Don't like to design and develop your MMO with RolePlay as the primary feature? Then go develop another type of game.
And this website is named "MMORPG.Com" and I come here to discuss MMORPG's and how they should be improved within the original genre....if you are here to destroy MMORPGs or morph them into something they were not intended to be, then go to another website.
As I said in the other thread, the "role playing" in the acronym has nothing to do with what you think it does. I acknowledge that it might to you though, since it's a common mistake, but that simply doesn't change the reality of it..
Ok, I respect you as a Gamer and as a Person, but I disagree.
I play MMORPGs. Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games. Any Game that calls itself a "MMORPG" by default should be designed as a Role Playing Game that is Online and with the ability to have massive amounts of Players ingame at once working either together toward a goal or solo (multiplayer). Note the Adjectives Massively, Multiplayer, and Online...they are used to describe the term "Role Playing Game".
By Definition then, any online game that either claims or even pretends to be a MMORPG should be designed first and foremost as a Role Playing Game, and then they can add a great combat system, lots of action, crafting, and the rest of the bells and whistles. It does NOT matter that the Dev Teams of the games pretending to be MMORPGs released in the last few years have forgotten this simple and basic fact about MMORPGs. It does NOT matter that some players do not like or enjoy Roleplay activities in a MMORPG. If Dev Teams and Players don't want RolePlay to be the priority in MMORPG development, then they should get out of the MMORPG Genre. They will be happy they did.
If someone decides to leave the genre then I will be glad they left. I am tired of explaining to people why Roleplay in a MMORPG is the number reason for the existance of MMORPG's in the first place. I am also tired of defending a concept so basic to MMORPGs that it should never have to be defended as it should have never been forgotten in the first place.
Don't like Roleplay in MMORPGs? Then go play some other type of game.
Don't like to design and develop your MMO with RolePlay as the primary feature? Then go develop another type of game.
And this website is named "MMORPG.Com" and I come here to discuss MMORPG's and how they should be improved within the original genre....if you are here to destroy MMORPGs or morph them into something they were not intended to be, then go to another website.
As I said in the other thread, the "role playing" in the acronym has nothing to do with what you think it does. I acknowledge that it might to you though, since it's a common mistake, but that simply doesn't change the reality of it..
Alright Hagonbok, you win.
You are always right.
I am always wrong.
Of Course I know absolutely nothing about MMORPGs after spending tens of Thousands of hours playing several of them over at least the last 13 years.
But, You are always right. I know nothing. The MMORPG Genre belongs to you. Players like me should shut off our computers and go to the old folks home I am guessing.
Alright Hagonbok, you win.
You are always right.
I am always wrong.
Of Course I know absolutely nothing about MMORPGs after spending tens of Thousands of hours playing several of them over at least the last 13 years.
But, You are always right. I know nothing. The MMORPG Genre belongs to you. Players like me should shut off our computers and go to the old folks home I am guessing.
Well considering that chances are I'm older than you, I would never suggest that. I would suggest that adjusting your beliefs about these games and what they're "supposed to be about" is in order though.
What MMORPGs are "supposed to be about" is what I have tried my best to explain to you.
You have been told, or taught, that the meaning of Role Playing Game is not literal...
However, I know for a fact that the original Dreamers and Developers of the first MMORPGs meant them to be literally "Role Play" games, with some exceptions amongst the developers of the first games back then. They discussed their intentions for the games at length back then so I know what MMORPGs were originally meant to be.
I don't need to adjust my beliefs. The modern Developers and some Players that desire MMORPGs to be something other than what they were originally designed to be need to adjust their beliefs however. If that includes yourself, then so be it.
Can I change how you, or others that either Play or Develop MMORPGs view what MMORPGs are supposed to be about? No I can't. But neither do I wish to see MMORPGs be changed into a shadow of what they once were either. If anyone wonders why the last few years of new MMORPG releases have seemed "short on substance" compared to older MMORPGs it is at least for the reasons I have alluded to here. Modern Developers and Players have forgotten just what a MMORPG is, and Cryptic's STO is no exception. Cryptic has placed Action and Combat features as a higher priority over Roleplay and it too will fall far short of what Players want from a Star Trek MMORPG. With Cryptic's present design emphasis it would be better if STO was released only as a Console game in my opinion and when compared and examined in light of what a MMORPG is "supposed to be".
Now, we can argue back and forth on this all day and night long for the next month, but I see no end of it. I know what a MMORPG is supposed to be, and you believe you know what they are supposed to be as well. I do not beleive we will ever agree, but at least our discussion here has given me the opportunity to remind other Players that there is a purpose for RolePlay in a MMO. Most Players that believe as I do gave up long ago attempting to remind the Players of MMOs this, and maybe they were right to stop posting thier opinions. It is obvious to me that my opinion as a Roleplaying MMORPG gamer is something that some of you would just as soon ignore.
I am finished contributing to this thread. Nothing I say here seems to matter anyway.