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How bad does this game suck?

ZenrenZenren Member UncommonPosts: 68

It seems like every post I see about this game is negative. I mean I haven't played it and I've only heard about it in passing (until I started seeing it pop up so much in the forums) and yet I know that they delayed and screwed up the release, that there are numerous issues in PvP regarding objects being able to be attacked through or moved through. Also I know that there is currently a conspiracy theory going around that the GMs are kicking people who are participating in raids on their town... Is there anything nice to say about this game?

If you're reading this, you probably need to get some sun.

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Comments

  • BenthonBenthon Member Posts: 2,069

    Sucks pretty bad. See sig.

    He who keeps his cool best wins.

  • Angie-PvPAngie-PvP Member Posts: 87

    Darkfall can be compared to fating into a brown paper sack and then placing it over your head.

  • DeathstinyDeathstiny Member Posts: 386

    Good things about Darkfall:

    - It will forever be THE shining beacon of crap that set the all time standard for the poorest "launch" in MMO history.

    - It set a precident for developers to be able to charge players for BETA testing

    - It is now acceptable practise to double charge consumers on their credit card

    - Now, it is okay for patch files to delete the game from your harddrive instead of patching it

    - speedhacks and macroing are finally mainstream and well accepeted

    - GMs are getting actively involved and PKing and have their own cities which they will defend god-mode style

    - updating official websites is finally a thing of the past

    and on and on it goes......this truely IS a REVOLUTIONARY MMO

  • ingiingi Member UncommonPosts: 18

    Look on the bright side, if Darkfall does in fact suck oh so terribly bad then at least you get to spend countless hours bashing the game, talking about how you were wronged by the devs, beg for improvements, become righteous, and continue down the typical path the mmo gamer obscessive mmo fanboy/hater takes while he's not playing an mmo.

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by Zenren
    It seems like every post I see about this game is negative. I mean I haven't played it and I've only heard about it in passing (until I started seeing it pop up so much in the forums) and yet I know that they delayed and screwed up the release, that there are numerous issues in PvP regarding objects being able to be attacked through or moved through. Also I know that there is currently a conspiracy theory going around that the GMs are kicking people who are participating in raids on their town... Is there anything nice to say about this game?

    You could check out www.darkfallonline.com and see what they think of it there. Most of the people on those forums actually play the game now so you get a more accurate picture than "Darkfail sux donkey hose" "No it doesn't, you sux."


    Once you do that, parse it with other sites as well and you'll come up with a general answer. I seriously doubt that in this thread you started, you'll have more than 20 people who actually played the game. I don't think under 20 folks is a good enough snapshot of any game anywhere, do you?

  • prowprow Member Posts: 188

    thank god i got a refund

  • maxnrosymaxnrosy Member Posts: 608
    Originally posted by popinjay


     

    Originally posted by Zenren

    It seems like every post I see about this game is negative. I mean I haven't played it and I've only heard about it in passing (until I started seeing it pop up so much in the forums) and yet I know that they delayed and screwed up the release, that there are numerous issues in PvP regarding objects being able to be attacked through or moved through. Also I know that there is currently a conspiracy theory going around that the GMs are kicking people who are participating in raids on their town... Is there anything nice to say about this game?

     

     

    You could check out www.darkfallonline.com and see what they think of it there. Most of the people on those forums actually play the game now so you get a more accurate picture than "Darkfail sux donkey hose" "No it doesn't, you sux."

     



    Once you do that, parse it with other sites as well and you'll come up with a general answer. I seriously doubt that in this thread you started, you'll have more than 20 people who actually played the game. I don't think under 20 folks is a good enough snapshot of any game anywhere, do you?

    good point but you failed to mention to him that only the foums is current the rest of the website has not yet been updated. like the feature section and faq.

    read the froums over there and make up your mind.

    Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.

  • hail2dathiefhail2dathief Member UncommonPosts: 232
    Originally posted by popinjay


     

    Originally posted by Zenren

    It seems like every post I see about this game is negative. I mean I haven't played it and I've only heard about it in passing (until I started seeing it pop up so much in the forums) and yet I know that they delayed and screwed up the release, that there are numerous issues in PvP regarding objects being able to be attacked through or moved through. Also I know that there is currently a conspiracy theory going around that the GMs are kicking people who are participating in raids on their town... Is there anything nice to say about this game?

     

     

    You could check out www.darkfallonline.com and see what they think of it there. Most of the people on those forums actually play the game now so you get a more accurate picture than "Darkfail sux donkey hose" "No it doesn't, you sux."

     



    Once you do that, parse it with other sites as well and you'll come up with a general answer. I seriously doubt that in this thread you started, you'll have more than 20 people who actually played the game. I don't think under 20 folks is a good enough snapshot of any game anywhere, do you?

     

    Well i do agree with this general idea but there are flaws in it.  First, I agree that the OP should look at other sites including the DFO forums to get a general idea.  Here's the problems though, DFO forums,  if you flame the game you get banned so most things are gonna be positive posts on the DFO forums.  Also, he isn't going to get more than 20 people on here that have played the game, mostly because there probably aren't 20 people on MMORPG.com that have played the game. That's due to AV's horrible and small scale release.  All in all, OP, you should check out multiple sources to make your decision.  I have not played the game myself and wouldn't be able to get a copy if i wanted to, so even if you decide that the game doesn't sound that bad and you would buy it, GL.  It could take 6 months or more to get a copy at retail price and not for an outrageous amount on ebay.  

    -cheers

    image

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by maxnrosy

    good point but you failed to mention to him that only the foums is current the rest of the website has not yet been updated. like the feature section and faq.
    read the froums over there and make up your mind.


    His inquiries are about what people's opinions of the game from people who've played it. Updated feature sections and FAQs do not have opinions nor have they played Darkfall, so no need to mention that. The forums there being current is what is important as that is where the most recent info on how the game plays come from.


    They have nothing to do whatsoever with how the game plays. This is why I "failed to mention" it. It's not relevant to that subject.

  • D3lit3D3lit3 Member Posts: 95

    Wow these trolls actually coerced me into believing the game is bad.

     

    Well guess what, the game is pretty awesome. Yes it may be a bit unpolished. Yes they may have some sales problems.

     

    But this is the only game I play now, nothing until maybe MO or FE come out will deliver like this game.

     

    Most common troll rumors I hear, and my opinion;

     

    - Charged twice on your CC

    Lol. Uh never had this happen to me...

     

    - Speedhacks and macros.

    I seriously have NOT ONCE seen a speedhacker and only once have seen a macro dude spamming MM.

     

    -GM abuse?

    I've never seen a GM AT ALL.

     

    - Paying for beta testing? 

    Sure, if you think of it as that. I see a functional game with some server problems that makes people angry when they siege thus playing the beta card.

     

    - The website being outdated.

    Yes, they need to update it. But really I never even visit it.

     

    I'm having lots of fun. Plus they also released a patch not long ago which improves a lot of stuff. Plus today I stole some dude's mount haha.

     

     

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by hail2dathief

     
    Well i do agree with this general idea but there are flaws in it.  First, I agree that the OP should look at other sites including the DFO forums to get a general idea.  Here's the problems though, DFO forums,  if you flame the game you get banned so most things are gonna be positive posts on the DFO forums.  Also, he isn't going to get more than 20 people on here that have played the game, mostly because there probably aren't 20 people on MMORPG.com that have played the game. That's due to AV's horrible and small scale release.  All in all, OP, you should check out multiple sources to make your decision.  I have not played the game myself and wouldn't be able to get a copy if i wanted to, so even if you decide that the game doesn't sound that bad and you would buy it, GL.  It could take 6 months or more to get a copy at retail price and not for an outrageous amount on ebay.  
    -cheers



    I'm not sure how you expect him to take what you say as serious "advice" when you say this: " Also, he isn't going to get more than 20 people on here that have played the game, mostly because there probably aren't 20 people on MMORPG.com that have played the game." While that may be good for a quick laugh for some, it's pretty laughable you took the time to type it out.

    The main reason he should read the DFO forums is precisely because of posts such as yours, that make no attempt to be serious. Saying it's all rosy there so just discount everything is pretty stupid, just like saying if its all negative here (which is usually is because of 25 post trollers) then you should discount everything said here. You have no balance in your argument whatsoever. For someone who doesn't play Darkfall, and doesn't express an interest in it, you sure are definitive about your answers when they illuminate little and are clearly incorrect. Case in point:


    "I have not played the game myself and wouldn't be able to get a copy if i wanted to, so even if you decide that the game doesn't sound that bad and you would buy it, GL. It could take 6 months or more to get a copy at retail price and not for an outrageous amount on ebay."


    Tasos on DFO forums says (03-25-2009):


    "Also, we'll offer more client sales starting on Monday 4PM GMT for a limited number of copies and possibly every day next week as we further upgrade server capacity at the end of this week.

    Thank you,
    The Darkfall Team"


    I guess you can check their site and get info, huh?

  • egotripegotrip Member Posts: 875
    Originally posted by D3lit3



     <SNIP>
    - Speedhacks and macros.
    I seriously have NOT ONCE seen a speedhacker and only once have seen a macro dude spamming MM.
     Who needs speed hacks ? The game mechanics allow all sort of stuff, like float
    www.youtube.com/watch
    Even though i'm pretty sure they fixed that by now and if they didn't they're gonna do it........"soon"

     <SNIP>


     I'm having lots of fun. Plus they also released a patch not long ago which improves a lot of stuff. Plus today I stole some dude's mount haha.
    I guess this wasn't one of the improvements www.youtube.com/watch
    Or is this skill working as intended?
    EDIT:Please watch the videos in HD,you're missing half the fun if you don't

     

    Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*

  • hail2dathiefhail2dathief Member UncommonPosts: 232
    Originally posted by popinjay


     

    Originally posted by hail2dathief
     
     

    Well i do agree with this general idea but there are flaws in it.  First, I agree that the OP should look at other sites including the DFO forums to get a general idea.  Here's the problems though, DFO forums,  if you flame the game you get banned so most things are gonna be positive posts on the DFO forums.  Also, he isn't going to get more than 20 people on here that have played the game, mostly because there probably aren't 20 people on MMORPG.com that have played the game. That's due to AV's horrible and small scale release.  All in all, OP, you should check out multiple sources to make your decision.  I have not played the game myself and wouldn't be able to get a copy if i wanted to, so even if you decide that the game doesn't sound that bad and you would buy it, GL.  It could take 6 months or more to get a copy at retail price and not for an outrageous amount on ebay.  

    -cheers

     

     



    I'm not sure how you expect him to take what you say as serious "advice" when you say this: " Also, he isn't going to get more than 20 people on here that have played the game, mostly because there probably aren't 20 people on MMORPG.com that have played the game." While that may be good for a quick laugh for some, it's pretty laughable you took the time to type it out.

     

     

    The main reason he should read the DFO forums is precisely because of posts such as yours, that make no attempt to be serious. Saying it's all rosy there so just discount everything is pretty stupid, just like saying if its all negative here (which is usually is because of 25 post trollers) then you should discount everything said here. You have no balance in your argument whatsoever. For someone who doesn't play Darkfall, and doesn't express an interest in it, you sure are definitive about your answers when they illuminate little and are clearly incorrect. Case in point:



    "I have not played the game myself and wouldn't be able to get a copy if i wanted to, so even if you decide that the game doesn't sound that bad and you would buy it, GL. It could take 6 months or more to get a copy at retail price and not for an outrageous amount on ebay."



    Tasos on DFO forums says (03-25-2009):



    "Also, we'll offer more client sales starting on Monday 4PM GMT for a limited number of copies and possibly every day next week as we further upgrade server capacity at the end of this week.

     

    Thank you,

    The Darkfall Team"



     

     

    I guess you can check their site and get info, huh?

     

     

    WOW, you opened my eyes to the work of art that is DFO!  Notice that they said limit number of copies just like launch.  There are going to be lots of people just like on launch day trying to click a buy button at the same time.  So it will be a matter of luck again with some users getting the game and others not getting the game.  I would have interest in trying the game if I could actually go to a store and purchase it like mostly any other game on the planet.  Yes, my comment that 20 people prolly don't have a copy was just a joke so calm down, didn't mean to go and get you all angry and heated behind your keyboard and start bashing me personally.  I have never actually bashed the game since i have never played it, now i have made a joke or 2 and even bashed som fanboi trolls that seem to post the same garbage over and over.  I for the most part agreed with you on your post and agree he should explore multiple forums and form an opinion himself.  Another problem is the fact that they are releasing a limited copies again so you will now see more posts on ebay selling the game as there will still be a demand for the game.  Can anyone honestly believe anything Tasos says anymore, considering he didn't deliver most of what he promised.  Not saying it won't be implemented at some point but whatever.  No big deal, this game may be good or it may be bad.  Just up to the person who really cares to find out.  Why do people take jokes and personal opinion so seriously and get so heated about someone's opinion on an idea.  Jesus Christ some people just make me laugh.

    image

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by hail2dathief

     
    WOW, you opened my eyes to the work of art that is DFO!  Notice that they said limit number of copies just like launch.  There are going to be lots of people just like on launch day trying to click a buy button at the same time.  So it will be a matter of luck again with some users getting the game and others not getting the game.  I would have interest in trying the game if I could actually go to a store and purchase it like mostly any other game on the planet.  Yes, my comment that 20 people prolly don't have a copy was just a joke so calm down, didn't mean to go and get you all angry and heated behind your keyboard and start bashing me personally.  I have never actually bashed the game since i have never played it, now i have made a joke or 2 and even bashed som fanboi trolls that seem to post the same garbage over and over.  I for the most part agreed with you on your post and agree he should explore multiple forums and form an opinion himself.  Another problem is the fact that they are releasing a limited copies again so you will now see more posts on ebay selling the game as there will still be a demand for the game.  Can anyone honestly believe anything Tasos says anymore, considering he didn't deliver most of what he promised.  Not saying it won't be implemented at some point but whatever.  No big deal, this game may be good or it may be bad.  Just up to the person who really cares to find out.  Why do people take jokes and personal opinion so seriously and get so heated about someone's opinion on an idea.  Jesus Christ some people just make me laugh.



    How could anyone not notice it says "limited"? It's been limited since release and they even said that. Of course everyone can't get in when it's "limited".. but thank you for pointing that out, Obvious Lad. But I don't think we'll give you points for new insight there.

    I'm not sure why you think I'm "angry and bashing keyboards" when you look at your post above, typed out in one long, phrenetic spasm. For future reference.. it's spelled p a r a g r a p h. And even though they don't make what you type less sillier, it will enable most of us to at least read it anyways.

    I'm not sure why you thought you got a "bash" after saying I have 'flaws' in my advice for the OP to read the DFOs along with other things, but if you took it that way, you might be tuned up a little highly. I showed where you were incorrect saying it will take six months to buy this game, when three days ago, they announce upcoming sales this coming week. You could have told the OP that, but you chose hyperbole instead. Not very balanced. Agreeing with me is a no brainer. What are you going to say after I say "Check everything everywhere and make up your own mind" to the OP? No, don't do that? That would be silly. You don't have to agree with rhetorical advice, it doesn't need your personal validation.


    You can make all the jokes you like.. its a free forum. But you aren't a fair person regarding the game, you know it and you have no intention of providing accurate information but chose to cherrypick. Don't be a hypocrite pretending you are giving advice... admit you don't like DF, hope it fails, and you'd like to persuade anyone else from playing it. At least be honest because you aren't hiding your feelings very well, thats all.

  • hail2dathiefhail2dathief Member UncommonPosts: 232
    Originally posted by popinjay


     

    Originally posted by hail2dathief
     
     

    WOW, you opened my eyes to the work of art that is DFO!  Notice that they said limit number of copies just like launch.  There are going to be lots of people just like on launch day trying to click a buy button at the same time.  So it will be a matter of luck again with some users getting the game and others not getting the game.  I would have interest in trying the game if I could actually go to a store and purchase it like mostly any other game on the planet.  Yes, my comment that 20 people prolly don't have a copy was just a joke so calm down, didn't mean to go and get you all angry and heated behind your keyboard and start bashing me personally.  I have never actually bashed the game since i have never played it, now i have made a joke or 2 and even bashed som fanboi trolls that seem to post the same garbage over and over.  I for the most part agreed with you on your post and agree he should explore multiple forums and form an opinion himself.  Another problem is the fact that they are releasing a limited copies again so you will now see more posts on ebay selling the game as there will still be a demand for the game.  Can anyone honestly believe anything Tasos says anymore, considering he didn't deliver most of what he promised.  Not saying it won't be implemented at some point but whatever.  No big deal, this game may be good or it may be bad.  Just up to the person who really cares to find out.  Why do people take jokes and personal opinion so seriously and get so heated about someone's opinion on an idea.  Jesus Christ some people just make me laugh.

     

     



    How could anyone not notice it says "limited"? It's been limited since release and they even said that. Of course everyone can't get in when it's "limited".. but thank you for pointing that out, Obvious Lad. But I don't think we'll give you points for new insight there.

     

    I'm not sure why you think I'm "angry and bashing keyboards" when you look at your post above, typed out in one long, phrenetic spasm. For future reference.. it's spelled p a r a g r a p h. And even though they don't make what you type less sillier, it will enable most of us to at least read it anyways.

     

    I'm not sure why you thought you got a "bash" after saying I have 'flaws' in my advice for the OP to read the DFOs along with other things, but if you took it that way, you might be tuned up a little highly. I showed where you were incorrect saying it will take six months to buy this game, when three days ago, they announce upcoming sales this coming week. You could have told the OP that, but you chose hyperbole instead. Not very balanced. Agreeing with me is a no brainer. What are you going to say after I say "Check everything everywhere and make up your own mind" to the OP? No, don't do that? That would be silly. You don't have to agree with rhetorical advice, it doesn't need your personal validation.

     



    You can make all the jokes you like.. its a free forum. But you aren't a fair person regarding the game, you know it and you have no intention of providing accurate information but chose to cherrypick. Don't be a hypocrite pretending you are giving advice... admit you don't like DF, hope it fails, and you'd like to persuade anyone else from playing it. At least be honest because you aren't hiding your feelings very well, thats all.

     

     

     I'm sorry i didn't know this was english class.  I don't care if my post in one big paragraph.  I wasn't pointing out it was limited because someone couldn't see it, i  was doing it because you were acting like there aren't  going to be mass amounts of people without the game going to ebay and paying an outrageous amount of money for the game.  You are acting like another limited release is going to solve the problem.

     

    Learn to read btw way, i never said you were bashing keyboards.  Love how people act like they are english majors then after that,  make a remark that is wrong when all you had to do was read what i wrote properly.  And no i didn't have to agree with you at all.  I could have said, "yes this game is shit and don't even bother with the above user's advice".  If I really hated the game i would have said that but like i said i have never played it.  I would give this game a try if it wasn't such a headache to do so, i.e. limited launches and webpages going down because of too much traffic.  If it were a normal launch where i could have gone to gamestop or something and bought the game i would have.

     

     I am bored with MMO's atm and would at least play the free month and the 34 more days they are offering simply because i am playing nothing else atm.  Anyways, form your own opinion about me if you like I really don't care what someone i don't know really thinks about me.  So enjoy yourself but i'm gonna stop posting anything as we are being trolls atm and taking away from the original topic.  

     edit: did that really make a difference? Same amount of words but now even bigger cause i added paragraphs.

    -cheers

    image

  • popinjaypopinjay Member Posts: 6,539


    Originally posted by hail2dathief
    <snip>


    No paragraph, no readie. So sorry.

  • APEistAPEist Member UncommonPosts: 409

     I've been having fun in DFO for about 2 months now.  

    The game certainly needs improvement, but it is solid.  

    _______________________________________________
    Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online

    The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.

  • APEistAPEist Member UncommonPosts: 409
    Originally posted by popinjay


     

    Originally posted by hail2dathief

    <snip>


     



    No paragraph, no readie. So sorry.

     

    Bwhahahah... I skipped it as well.  I also skipped his first wall o' text.

    _______________________________________________
    Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online

    The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.

  • APEistAPEist Member UncommonPosts: 409

     Also, to the OP, keep in mind that AT LEAST 3 out of the 4 people who responded at first haven't even played the game.

    I'm not sure about Benthon, but I doubt it.

    _______________________________________________
    Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online

    The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.

  • APEistAPEist Member UncommonPosts: 409
    Originally posted by Deathstiny


    Good things about Darkfall:
    - It will forever be THE shining beacon of crap that set the all time standard for the poorest "launch" in MMO history.
    Dark and Light, Anarchy Online, Mourning.  You have no knowledge of DF nor the MMO industry.
    - It set a precident for developers to be able to charge players for BETA testing
    Dark and Light, Horizons, Age of Conan, etc...
    - It is now acceptable practise to double charge consumers on their credit card
    Lie.  Aventurine already made a public statement assuring customers who had been double charged that the issue would be fixed.  Aventurine ISN'T going to take your money twice.
    - Now, it is okay for patch files to delete the game from your harddrive instead of patching it
    Wha? Haven't heard of this one.
    - speedhacks and macroing are finally mainstream and well accepeted
    Funny, out of 58 deaths since launch (it's counted ingame), 1 has been from a speed hacker.  
    - GMs are getting actively involved and PKing and have their own cities which they will defend god-mode style
    Silly accusation that holds no water.
    - updating official websites is finally a thing of the past
    Here I can sympathize with you.
    and on and on it goes......this truely IS a REVOLUTIONARY MMO

     

    Hmm, deathstiny, haven't seen that name before.  You're now duly noted as a liar (exaggeration past a certain point is a lie) and from now on will be dismissed as inane, thanks for presenting yourself forthright so as to be easily identifiable.

    _______________________________________________
    Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online

    The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.

  • Die_ScreamDie_Scream Member Posts: 1,785

    These guys are right. They are so busy playing the game they rarely have time to come here and post about how many people don't play the game.

    OP, head over to forumfall, see what a great commmunity they have there and you'll get an idea of the ilk you'll play with in DF. That is, if you can get a copy.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,078
    Originally posted by APEist

    Originally posted by popinjay


     

    Originally posted by hail2dathief

    <snip>


     



    No paragraph, no readie. So sorry.

     

    Bwhahahah... I skipped it as well.  I also skipped his first wall o' text.

     

    DF fans aren't known for their reading comprehension skills though....

    too hardcore I think

    Game is enjoyed by some, hated by others, in the end, you'll have to try it yourself to find out if its your type of game.

     

     

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • sanedorsanedor Member Posts: 485

    i would like to see an in-game screen shot not red/orange . i looked at the screenies before launch that AV posted they where nice and green , the areas looked wonderful , well for ok graphics . they did look better. i am thinking that these where lies and not real screen shots... but hey post some new ingame ones of true green grass and blue skies not that blahhh crap colors...

  • FatGamerFatGamer Member UncommonPosts: 122

    The game is a joke. I'd sell my copy of it were legal to do so here on the forums. The game needs another year in beta and a team to provide decent content outside of clumsy designed pvp. People shooting people through rocks or a gazillion of other exploits make this a game of exploiter versus exploiter - may the best cheater win.

     

    Yawn.

    The Adventures of Fat Gamer - http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/FatGamer

  • APEistAPEist Member UncommonPosts: 409
    Originally posted by FatGamer


    The game is a joke. I'd sell my copy of it were legal to do so here on the forums. The game needs another year in beta and a team to provide decent content outside of clumsy designed pvp. People shooting people through rocks or a gazillion of other exploits make this a game of exploiter versus exploiter - may the best cheater win.
     
    Yawn.

     

    Through rocks?  Haven't seen that one.

    _______________________________________________
    Games looking forward to: Fallen Earth, Mortal Online

    The noob formally not known as not being the formally not unkown known APEist; The Stone Cold Killer of Tarq.

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