It does not matter to me what Funcom will do because I will not invest in another product that even has the slightest Funcom influence on it. The way they handeled AoC at launch was completly un accectable, all the lies and the deceptions, were un called for.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Yeah I totally agree with the OP. Instancing is lame, ruins immersions, takes the massively multiplayer out of MMORPG. And you're a champ to be able to handle even the amount of instancing in WoW. That was part of the reason I thought that game was garbage. I don't understand what makes it fun to force yourself into a single player or multipler world when it should be MMORPG.Loading zones? Who cares, that's completely different and I could care less, it takes away nothing IMO.
Oh yeah, and whoever mentioned the system thing and people not having good enough computers? How hard is it to upgrade your video card? With all the time you waste playing the games in the first place you could work some overtime or even, get a job?, and pay for that within a week, maybe two, instead of just playing video games for 3+ hours every night of that week.
So, to summarize. A) Instancing is stupid and makes no sense within MMOs unless designed very very well (maybe a player house or the occassional NM fight that was instanced in FFXI)B) Upgrade your computers instead of bringing everyone else down with the sob story that you have a shitty rig.
Anarchy Online: The first mmo to use instancing. Raid zones and other non-instanced encounters in AO are now being made instances as we speak. In fact, Funcom is credited with creating "instancing". Make sure you thank them for that.
What would you like, real time travel when using the airports to go to different countries?
A mixture of open world and instance is just commmon sense, this isnt everquest 2, where shitty graphics allowed for one big open world.. Actually... EQ2 doesn't have one big open world. It has zones (ie. loading screens between major areas). Commonlands, Nektulos Forest, Everfrost, etc.. are all separate zones. It also supports instancing of zones when there are enough people to warrant opening additional ones. In fact, as of recently when they revamped Lavastorm in EQ2, there were at least 2 instances of that zone. Use a mariner bell to get there and you're asked if you want Lavastorm 1 or Lavastorm 2.
Instancing requires zoning (at least for the instance areas). But you can have zones without instancing. That said...
If it's going to rely on the same level of graphics as AoC with high poly counts, dense environments and lots of pixel-shaders, then they might need zoning at least. I don't think they could pull off a seamless world with that level of tech... But I could be wrong.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The game is most likely going to be heavily instanced/zoned. It's built on the AoC engine and is being cross-developed for Xbox 360. If the game is going to run smoothly enough to allow real-time combat in detailed urban settings, there really isn't much alternative.
-study over what you did right in tortage and work around that.
-like the OP said, no instancing.
Outside of dungeons and such where instancing would ultimately benefit players (by not having to camp on top of each other, etc), I agree.
-don't spend too much time tweaking the graphics to where you've hardly spent any time making the actual game.
The people who handle graphics production aren't the ones who handle the game design, or programming. Entirely different teams. However, the two do overlap (since the programmers have to integrate support for wha the designers do, and the designers have to make sure everything is created according to spec). From what Ragnar says, they'll be using the same engine, but enhanced due to the improvements made to it with AoC. -game mechanics game mechanics game mechanics, I can't stress that enough.
Again, from what Ragnar said, they plan to make sure the game systems and such are solid before calling them "ready for beta".
-no 80 levels, it took WoW 5years to get to that point, don't you do it.(just learned no levels..good) There will be no levels. Ragnar also says this.
-stats are your friend, focus making them work while balancing around classes.
No classes either. Did you even watch the videos? lol -don't add a ridiculous amount of classes in game if you don't know what to do with them all.(no classes good) Again.. no classes in the game.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The game is most likely going to be heavily instanced/zoned. It's built on the AoC engine and is being cross-developed for Xbox 360. If the game is going to run smoothly enough to allow real-time combat in detailed urban settings, there really isn't much alternative.
I would count on zoning.
Not necessarily on instancing.. again, except where it benefits players overall. Given the backlash they've gotten from the instancing in AoC, I would guess (or at least hope) they do their best to avoid it as much as possible.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Age of Conan works. There are many that play and enjoy it and understand the multiple zones. City of Heroes had it and it worked as well.
When playing Age of Conan, I dont fret about being in a different "channel" as some others do. Instead I play the game and enjoy it. If I group with others and some are in a different "channel", then I and others will get near a rez pad and "re-channel". It's that simple.
There are several other players in the same "channel" and I feel as if I am indeed in a massive multiplayer online game. The "channeling" also helps with doing quests in that I dont have to fight 20 other players to complete whatever goal is set for me.
Again, thank you Funcom for making an immersive world work in Age of Conan.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Please don't instance* this game to bits like you did with AoC? Pretty please? Rule one of mmorpg club is; "Immersion > Eyecandy" Thanks! edit: * instancing as in; having multiple copies of the same public zones on the same server.
Yes, we clearly all want to spend 2 hours in a virtual plane going from Paris to London. Or 10 hours in train watching all the generic nature all around.
*sighs*
Read it again, Sam.
If you didnt notice yet let me be the first one to inform you. Secret World is using the same engine as Age of Conan. Hope that explains your instance dilemma.
and AOC used the same engine from AO (although upgraded, kinda like the TSW engine) and it didnt have channeling and the zones were immense.
@OP: and i agree, i hate channeling, it completely ruins the immersion factor for me. And i have been a huge promoter for immersion in video games, since i have seen the affects of a game with great immersion (Neverwinter nights 2), it was like a really good book, i couldnt stop playing, i had to know what came next. Lol i was even upset to take a break to go to sleep or get something to eat. I could only imagine how a MMORPG would do with that level of immersion
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
We can only guess what they are up to at this point. However, I hope they keep it as seamless as possible. Clearly there will be instancing, I just hope they don't overdo it.
Since they're using cities and zones from all over the world there will be some zoning of course, though Ragnar has stated that it won't be *click "travel to London" and voila*. So it won't be just zoning or seeing a map with an arrow like in WoW.
He also explicitely stated that he hates instancing and he wants to have an open world where everyone is in the same zone. So that's encouraging at least.
Heat, pressure and time. The three things that make a diamond, also make a waffle. Also known as Ardanwen.
Sadly given (no)Funcoms' record on the subject you will have extensive instancing and not much of a world to "explore". Why anyone would even give these folks the time of day after AO and AoC is beyond me.
He also explicitely stated that he hates instancing and he wants to have an open world where everyone is in the same zone. So that's encouraging at least.
This is not to say that The Secret World will follow the route to solo MMO storytelling taken by Age of Conan's early levels, and Lord of the Rings Online's epic quests: instancing.
"My preference is to have as much of it as open-world, shared spaces as possible. I don't like instances at all," says Tornquist, surprisingly perhaps for a craftsman of the adventure yarn. "So we're trying to avoid that. There will be some places which are reserved for you or a group of people, but for the most part we're going to make it seamless, open, a lot of people running around - and that does introduce a lot of challenges when it comes to the storytelling aspect. But we have ways of working around that."
This is not to say that The Secret World will follow the route to solo MMO storytelling taken by Age of Conan's early levels, and Lord of the Rings Online's epic quests: instancing.
"My preference is to have as much of it as open-world, shared spaces as possible. I don't like instances at all," says Tornquist, surprisingly perhaps for a craftsman of the adventure yarn. "So we're trying to avoid that. There will be some places which are reserved for you or a group of people, but for the most part we're going to make it seamless, open, a lot of people running around - and that does introduce a lot of challenges when it comes to the storytelling aspect. But we have ways of working around that."
As long as this turns out to be a good game in the spirit of the Longest Journey I could seriously care less about channeling instancing or whatever blabberific complaint people had with Conan (or GW for that matter).
This is not to say that The Secret World will follow the route to solo MMO storytelling taken by Age of Conan's early levels, and Lord of the Rings Online's epic quests: instancing.
"My preference is to have as much of it as open-world, shared spaces as possible. I don't like instances at all," says Tornquist, surprisingly perhaps for a craftsman of the adventure yarn. "So we're trying to avoid that. There will be some places which are reserved for you or a group of people, but for the most part we're going to make it seamless, open, a lot of people running around - and that does introduce a lot of challenges when it comes to the storytelling aspect. But we have ways of working around that."
Thanks for the info.
There seems to be at least some hope that this game will follow another aproach to the gameworld than what they did with AoC.
I hope that plan isn't going to be sacrificed on the altar of console portability or cost cutting due to increased development cost of a more sophisticated memory managment needed for a seamless world with high quality graphics.
As long as this turns out to be a good game in the spirit of the Longest Journey I could seriously care less about channeling instancing or whatever blabberific complaint people had with Conan (or GW for that matter). TY
Anyone can have his own views on this but I can tell you that me and most of my guildies who tested AoC would never touch a game with that kind of channeling again.
-study over what you did right in tortage and work around that.
-like the OP said, no instancing.
Outside of dungeons and such where instancing would ultimately benefit players (by not having to camp on top of each other, etc), I agree.
-don't spend too much time tweaking the graphics to where you've hardly spent any time making the actual game.
The people who handle graphics production aren't the ones who handle the game design, or programming. Entirely different teams. However, the two do overlap (since the programmers have to integrate support for wha the designers do, and the designers have to make sure everything is created according to spec). From what Ragnar says, they'll be using the same engine, but enhanced due to the improvements made to it with AoC. -game mechanics game mechanics game mechanics, I can't stress that enough.
Again, from what Ragnar said, they plan to make sure the game systems and such are solid before calling them "ready for beta".
-no 80 levels, it took WoW 5years to get to that point, don't you do it.(just learned no levels..good) There will be no levels. Ragnar also says this.
-stats are your friend, focus making them work while balancing around classes.
No classes either. Did you even watch the videos? lol -don't add a ridiculous amount of classes in game if you don't know what to do with them all.(no classes good) Again.. no classes in the game.
LoL, trust me I'm not the only one that's going to bring up AoC thinking about this game. PersonallyI hope Funcom can do things rights this time, game looks interesting...0o
Instancing - Fine if you are doing it for dungeons, not good if you are doing it for cities
Zoning - Fine if you are doing it for large areas, not good if you are doing it for the basement of an inn
AOC did both of them wrong. Not only could you be standing at the exact same spot as your friend in a city and not be able to see him, but you also had to endure a loadscreen most times you went into a building or changed floors in that building.
Will TSW have zoning or instancing? The answer completely comes down to how high they stretch their graphics. If you hear the devs brag about a candle casting 40 real time shadows.. then you can bet you will have instanced cities and rather small areas zoned.
In other words, the devs in AOC decided it was more important for you to see a leaf blow and cast an individual shadow then it was for you to see your friend standing next to you in the same city
It does not matter to me what Funcom will do because I will not invest in another product that even has the slightest Funcom influence on it. The way they handeled AoC at launch was completly un accectable, all the lies and the deceptions, were un called for.
Couldn't have said it better myself...totally agree with todd on this one. I would probibly give it a try...as long as it is a FREE trial. But untill that hits, I can't put too much faith in Funcom. Already got bit in the a$$ once by them (AoC), certainly not gonna give them a second chance to take my cash again.
-study over what you did right in tortage and work around that.
-like the OP said, no instancing.
Outside of dungeons and such where instancing would ultimately benefit players (by not having to camp on top of each other, etc), I agree.
-don't spend too much time tweaking the graphics to where you've hardly spent any time making the actual game.
The people who handle graphics production aren't the ones who handle the game design, or programming. Entirely different teams. However, the two do overlap (since the programmers have to integrate support for wha the designers do, and the designers have to make sure everything is created according to spec). From what Ragnar says, they'll be using the same engine, but enhanced due to the improvements made to it with AoC. -game mechanics game mechanics game mechanics, I can't stress that enough.
Again, from what Ragnar said, they plan to make sure the game systems and such are solid before calling them "ready for beta".
-no 80 levels, it took WoW 5years to get to that point, don't you do it.(just learned no levels..good) There will be no levels. Ragnar also says this.
-stats are your friend, focus making them work while balancing around classes.
No classes either. Did you even watch the videos? lol -don't add a ridiculous amount of classes in game if you don't know what to do with them all.(no classes good) Again.. no classes in the game.
LoL, trust me I'm not the only one that's going to bring up AoC thinking about this game. PersonallyI hope Funcom can do things rights this time, game looks interesting...0o
Oh for sure. It's the SOE syndrome... One slip up, and everything with their name on it will forever be slammed (not that SOE or Funcom didn't deserve the criticism...)
For one, I don't buy into it. I agree they screwed up with AoC's launch, but... again... I have more faith in this game.
If they can keep the hype to a minimum and not get people's expectations up with a lot of hyperbole and such... that would be a plus in itself.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
-study over what you did right in tortage and work around that.
-like the OP said, no instancing.
Outside of dungeons and such where instancing would ultimately benefit players (by not having to camp on top of each other, etc), I agree.
-don't spend too much time tweaking the graphics to where you've hardly spent any time making the actual game.
The people who handle graphics production aren't the ones who handle the game design, or programming. Entirely different teams. However, the two do overlap (since the programmers have to integrate support for wha the designers do, and the designers have to make sure everything is created according to spec). From what Ragnar says, they'll be using the same engine, but enhanced due to the improvements made to it with AoC. -game mechanics game mechanics game mechanics, I can't stress that enough.
Again, from what Ragnar said, they plan to make sure the game systems and such are solid before calling them "ready for beta".
-no 80 levels, it took WoW 5years to get to that point, don't you do it.(just learned no levels..good) There will be no levels. Ragnar also says this.
-stats are your friend, focus making them work while balancing around classes.
No classes either. Did you even watch the videos? lol -don't add a ridiculous amount of classes in game if you don't know what to do with them all.(no classes good) Again.. no classes in the game.
LoL, trust me I'm not the only one that's going to bring up AoC thinking about this game. PersonallyI hope Funcom can do things rights this time, game looks interesting...0o
Oh for sure. It's the SOE syndrome... One slip up, and everything with their name on it will forever be slammed (not that SOE or Funcom didn't deserve the criticism...)
For one, I don't buy into it. I agree they screwed up with AoC's launch, but... again... I have more faith in this game.
If they can keep the hype to a minimum and not get people's expectations up with a lot of hyperbole and such... that would be a plus in itself.
I agree. And we have to grant them that they got at least a few aspects right with AOC; The Tortage part and the overall quality to design and art direction, for example. And now it seems they are able to learn from the things they did so very wrong, I think we should cut them some slack and see how this one pans out.
It's not "one" slipup newbies. They did just as many mistakes with Anarchy Online. Age of Conan was released a full year too early.
Fortunately for us all, they have a different development team working on this (and they have been working on it from long before work on AoC even began), or so they say. At least the game director is new.
Comments
It does not matter to me what Funcom will do because I will not invest in another product that even has the slightest Funcom influence on it. The way they handeled AoC at launch was completly un accectable, all the lies and the deceptions, were un called for.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Yeah I totally agree with the OP. Instancing is lame, ruins immersions, takes the massively multiplayer out of MMORPG. And you're a champ to be able to handle even the amount of instancing in WoW. That was part of the reason I thought that game was garbage. I don't understand what makes it fun to force yourself into a single player or multipler world when it should be MMORPG.Loading zones? Who cares, that's completely different and I could care less, it takes away nothing IMO.
Oh yeah, and whoever mentioned the system thing and people not having good enough computers? How hard is it to upgrade your video card? With all the time you waste playing the games in the first place you could work some overtime or even, get a job?, and pay for that within a week, maybe two, instead of just playing video games for 3+ hours every night of that week.
So, to summarize. A) Instancing is stupid and makes no sense within MMOs unless designed very very well (maybe a player house or the occassional NM fight that was instanced in FFXI)B) Upgrade your computers instead of bringing everyone else down with the sob story that you have a shitty rig.
Anarchy Online: The first mmo to use instancing. Raid zones and other non-instanced encounters in AO are now being made instances as we speak. In fact, Funcom is credited with creating "instancing". Make sure you thank them for that.
AoC: Instanced to the nines.
The secret World: Why would it be any different?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The game is most likely going to be heavily instanced/zoned. It's built on the AoC engine and is being cross-developed for Xbox 360. If the game is going to run smoothly enough to allow real-time combat in detailed urban settings, there really isn't much alternative.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I would count on zoning.
Not necessarily on instancing.. again, except where it benefits players overall. Given the backlash they've gotten from the instancing in AoC, I would guess (or at least hope) they do their best to avoid it as much as possible.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Dear Funcom,
Age of Conan works. There are many that play and enjoy it and understand the multiple zones. City of Heroes had it and it worked as well.
When playing Age of Conan, I dont fret about being in a different "channel" as some others do. Instead I play the game and enjoy it. If I group with others and some are in a different "channel", then I and others will get near a rez pad and "re-channel". It's that simple.
There are several other players in the same "channel" and I feel as if I am indeed in a massive multiplayer online game. The "channeling" also helps with doing quests in that I dont have to fight 20 other players to complete whatever goal is set for me.
Again, thank you Funcom for making an immersive world work in Age of Conan.
"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist
Yes, we clearly all want to spend 2 hours in a virtual plane going from Paris to London. Or 10 hours in train watching all the generic nature all around.
*sighs*
Read it again, Sam.
If you didnt notice yet let me be the first one to inform you. Secret World is using the same engine as Age of Conan. Hope that explains your instance dilemma.
and AOC used the same engine from AO (although upgraded, kinda like the TSW engine) and it didnt have channeling and the zones were immense.
@OP: and i agree, i hate channeling, it completely ruins the immersion factor for me. And i have been a huge promoter for immersion in video games, since i have seen the affects of a game with great immersion (Neverwinter nights 2), it was like a really good book, i couldnt stop playing, i had to know what came next. Lol i was even upset to take a break to go to sleep or get something to eat. I could only imagine how a MMORPG would do with that level of immersion
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
We can only guess what they are up to at this point. However, I hope they keep it as seamless as possible. Clearly there will be instancing, I just hope they don't overdo it.
Since they're using cities and zones from all over the world there will be some zoning of course, though Ragnar has stated that it won't be *click "travel to London" and voila*. So it won't be just zoning or seeing a map with an arrow like in WoW.
He also explicitely stated that he hates instancing and he wants to have an open world where everyone is in the same zone. So that's encouraging at least.
Heat, pressure and time. The three things that make a diamond, also make a waffle.
Also known as Ardanwen.
Sadly given (no)Funcoms' record on the subject you will have extensive instancing and not much of a world to "explore". Why anyone would even give these folks the time of day after AO and AoC is beyond me.
Do you have a link for that?
Eurogamer 3 page preview
www.eurogamer.net/articles/the-secret-world-preview
EQ2 fan sites
That is very hopeful
Thanks for the link.
My brand new bloggity blog.
As long as this turns out to be a good game in the spirit of the Longest Journey I could seriously care less about channeling instancing or whatever blabberific complaint people had with Conan (or GW for that matter).
TY
(,,,)=^__^=(,,,)
Thanks for the info.
There seems to be at least some hope that this game will follow another aproach to the gameworld than what they did with AoC.
I hope that plan isn't going to be sacrificed on the altar of console portability or cost cutting due to increased development cost of a more sophisticated memory managment needed for a seamless world with high quality graphics.
Anyone can have his own views on this but I can tell you that me and most of my guildies who tested AoC would never touch a game with that kind of channeling again.
All I can say is that if you have immersion high on your game feature wish list and tried AoC you probably wouldn't have written that. But *shrug*.
My brand new bloggity blog.
LoL, trust me I'm not the only one that's going to bring up AoC thinking about this game. PersonallyI hope Funcom can do things rights this time, game looks interesting...0o
Instancing - Fine if you are doing it for dungeons, not good if you are doing it for cities
Zoning - Fine if you are doing it for large areas, not good if you are doing it for the basement of an inn
AOC did both of them wrong. Not only could you be standing at the exact same spot as your friend in a city and not be able to see him, but you also had to endure a loadscreen most times you went into a building or changed floors in that building.
Will TSW have zoning or instancing? The answer completely comes down to how high they stretch their graphics. If you hear the devs brag about a candle casting 40 real time shadows.. then you can bet you will have instanced cities and rather small areas zoned.
In other words, the devs in AOC decided it was more important for you to see a leaf blow and cast an individual shadow then it was for you to see your friend standing next to you in the same city
Couldn't have said it better myself...totally agree with todd on this one. I would probibly give it a try...as long as it is a FREE trial. But untill that hits, I can't put too much faith in Funcom. Already got bit in the a$$ once by them (AoC), certainly not gonna give them a second chance to take my cash again.
LoL, trust me I'm not the only one that's going to bring up AoC thinking about this game. PersonallyI hope Funcom can do things rights this time, game looks interesting...0o
Oh for sure. It's the SOE syndrome... One slip up, and everything with their name on it will forever be slammed (not that SOE or Funcom didn't deserve the criticism...)
For one, I don't buy into it. I agree they screwed up with AoC's launch, but... again... I have more faith in this game.
If they can keep the hype to a minimum and not get people's expectations up with a lot of hyperbole and such... that would be a plus in itself.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
LoL, trust me I'm not the only one that's going to bring up AoC thinking about this game. PersonallyI hope Funcom can do things rights this time, game looks interesting...0o
Oh for sure. It's the SOE syndrome... One slip up, and everything with their name on it will forever be slammed (not that SOE or Funcom didn't deserve the criticism...)
For one, I don't buy into it. I agree they screwed up with AoC's launch, but... again... I have more faith in this game.
If they can keep the hype to a minimum and not get people's expectations up with a lot of hyperbole and such... that would be a plus in itself.
I agree. And we have to grant them that they got at least a few aspects right with AOC; The Tortage part and the overall quality to design and art direction, for example. And now it seems they are able to learn from the things they did so very wrong, I think we should cut them some slack and see how this one pans out.
My brand new bloggity blog.
It's not "one" slipup newbies. They did just as many mistakes with Anarchy Online. Age of Conan was released a full year too early.
Fortunately for us all, they have a different development team working on this (and they have been working on it from long before work on AoC even began), or so they say. At least the game director is new.