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I really want to like EvE but...
Erolis
Member Posts: 54
Now before you get your flame throwers out. Read what I have to type. Then you can get them out. I've tried to play eve. There are many many very cool things about eve that I really like. But I just could not get into it. I've played alot of different MMOs over the years. In eve combat is very expensive. The only way to "safely" raise money is with mining. That gets old real real fast. I did some combat. Most missions I just could not do, due to lack of hardware/skills.
Another aspect of eve that just bugs me is the combat system, I much prefer a twitched based system like JTL in SWG or like Jumpgate Evolution. It feels really really constraining. I did not like the way it felt. Also the lack of an avatar and only seeing your ship all the time really bugged me. I just really like being able to "get out" of my ship and walk and do other things besides drift around. I know with WIS coming this year that will change. While the graphics for WIS look jaw dropping amazing. It amounts to little more then eye candy, hanging around in bars and meeting rooms. Kinda underwhelming. There may be more but they are not telling us yet. I'm sure there is but at this point, it's just a great technology demo for "World of Darkness".
The PvP. The pvp is totally and completely brutal. Which it should be. But unless you have alot of money losses can set you back days or weeks.
The time. The travel time to fly your butt to any system more then 10 jumps away is just so time consuming. I know you can set up jump clones. But that takes alot of time and money and preperation.
Complexity. It's insanely complex. While this is both it's strength and weekness. Enough said about that.
While eve in many ways is a fantastic game/sandbox. There are still deal breaking aspects of it that just don't agree with me. I played it for about 4 months. Just could not get into the game enough to stay.
Oh and FLAME ON!
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
Comments
Just sounds like eve wasn't your game. There are plenty of fun games out there to play, it's actually a good thing we don't all like the same ones : )
Good luck finding a game that suits you better.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)
warp to 0km saves you a lot of time when gate jumping with larger ships.
while some of the things you mentond are valide afther 4 months you can probably solo lvl4 missions if you trained the right skills or can get a exaumer wich can earn you abaut 3.7mill per 12 minuts in high sec just mineing velspar.
I never understand posts like this. So you don't want to play the game, ok fine. Must people always explain why they don't like the game to people who do? I mean I don't go to a church to tell people why I don't like religion. Eve is complex, pvp is brutal, mining is boring, etc etc.
The complexity and brutality is exactly why I play. To each his own ya know?
For the most part every thing you said is merely your opinion on what you like and dislike.
However 2 of your comments are just not true. The first is the comment about pvp losses setting you back days or weeks. Really if you cannot make a mil or less to buy and fit out a tech 1 frigate you just aren't doing it right. The second comment that's just plain wrong is the one about 10 jumps being too time consuming to fly. I mean come on, how close do you want everything ? It's the distance in game that creates all the different local markets which allows the trade game.
It's fine you don't like Eve though. No need to flame you, just have fun in whatever game you play.
Another thing that is simply not true, that mining is the only way to safely make isk. Right off the top of my head I can think of 5 other ways, missioning (if belt rats are a serious danger you need some advice on ship fittings and tactics), trading, salvaging/ninja salvaging, exploration, and manufacturing
These forums aren't just for people who love Eve. Maybe he wants to tell people considering the game what he thinks of it. Or maybe he wanted to bounce his initial impressions of veteran players in the hopes that he is just missing all the fun content somehow.
The church analogy would fit better if he had posted this on the Eve forums.... and even then, most posts on official forums are gameplay complaints / suggestions anyway.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Expensive is a relative term, and not everyone wants to play a game where they have to use gear far below their abilities, knowing they are going to lose it in a few hours of gameplay anyway. Losing the best ship you can field, with the best equipment you can fit is expensive, even for someone with only a couple of weeks worth of skill training.
I think the travel time thing is one of the most common complaints I see from trial players and new subs to Eve. It was my first complaint for sure. While lots of games have 5 - 10 minutes of travel between locations, they actually make you travel during that time and be wary of the dangers along the way. The journey is almost as important as the destination... but that isn't the case in Eve, at least not in high-sec which is all new players usually see. 10 to 15 minutes is a pretty long time to just watch your ship travel without wanting or needing any input from you.
I'm not sure how either of those things can be facts he is wrong about... they both seem to fit in the opinion category to me.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Sally is the resident anti-EVE spin doctor. Despite several pages of explanations detailing how bigger does not necessarily mean better, he's still here with this 'gear far below their abilities' silliness. Maybe it isn't an agenda and he just truly cannot understand anything outside the gear-dependent gameplay that WOW drilled into him.
"While eve in many ways is a fantastic game/sandbox. There are still deal breaking aspects of it that just don't agree with me."
Understandable, especially if you're into twitch gaming. Have you checked out ACE Online or Takodom? Both are currently out and offer the 'dogfight' kind of combat you seem to be looking for.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Sally is the resident anti-EVE spin doctor. Despite several pages of explanations detailing how bigger does not necessarily mean better, he's still here with this 'gear far below their abilities' silliness. Maybe it isn't an agenda and he just truly cannot understand anything outside the gear-dependent gameplay that WOW drilled into him.
"While eve in many ways is a fantastic game/sandbox. There are still deal breaking aspects of it that just don't agree with me."
Understandable, especially if you're into twitch gaming. Have you checked out ACE Online or Takodom? Both are currently out and offer the 'dogfight' kind of combat you seem to be looking for.
Well, the first line of your post is just silly... considering how few posts I have made about Eve, and how recently I started playing and posting about the game in general. I am also not anti-Eve just because there are aspects of the game I don't like. You just choose to focus on my negative points and ignore that I also have positive things to say about the game. Also, I can't really be the resident anything in this forum with 10 or 12 total posts about the game.
I also didn't say a single word in this thread about bigger being better. I am saying that some people want to use equipment they have spent time training the ability to use. When people want to say that ship loss isn't expensive, they always give the value of frigate with the cheapest equipment you can buy for it. If you choose to fly an inexpensive frigate with the inexpensive equipment, then I guess it isn't that costly to lose your ship. If, however, you want to make use of your trained abilities and pilot a bigger ship, with better equipment, then you will certainly be out more than a million ISK when you lose your ship. So, it CAN be very expensive to lose a ship.
Again, for the record.. I have never spent a single second playing WoW.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
Expensive is a relative term, and not everyone wants to play a game where they have to use gear far below their abilities, knowing they are going to lose it in a few hours of gameplay anyway. Losing the best ship you can field, with the best equipment you can fit is expensive, even for someone with only a couple of weeks worth of skill training.
I think the travel time thing is one of the most common complaints I see from trial players and new subs to Eve. It was my first complaint for sure. While lots of games have 5 - 10 minutes of travel between locations, they actually make you travel during that time and be wary of the dangers along the way. The journey is almost as important as the destination... but that isn't the case in Eve, at least not in high-sec which is all new players usually see. 10 to 15 minutes is a pretty long time to just watch your ship travel without wanting or needing any input from you.
I'm not sure how either of those things can be facts he is wrong about... they both seem to fit in the opinion category to me.
If you engage regularly in PvP, whether in the most expensive ship you can afford, or in one below your abilities, it is a fact that it is likely to be lost in hours, or, days at the most.
And, very often, the most expensive ship you can afford is not the best one for the job at hand. In EVE, ships are tools, plain and simple. It makes little sense to use an expensive precision lathe when all you really need is a little sandpaper.
In just the same way, depending on what you want to do a cheap fit rifter may be are far better tool than a faction fit battleship. Just because a person can fly the faction BS doesn't mean he should.
What makes it expensive to lose is jumping straight into a cruiser or BC just because you have the skill trained for it. It makes a lot more sense to practice and learn the ropes in a viable and affordable 400k ISK craft than in a 10million ISK craft. The person that jumps right into the biggest ship he can possibly fly usually gets very frustrated very fast.
This isn't an EVE thing, Sal. It's a life thing. No one learns how to race cars in a Formula One. It's just a reckless and expensive thing to do.
Here's a test that you can try yourself. Pick an MMO that you haven't played in a year or so. Log in and untrain everything on your highest character (many MMOs allow this in one ofrm or another). You'll find that you'll be relatively lost as to what your character can do, which skills did what, what the optimal setup for you is, etc. Now, play a new character in that game from level one, and you will find you get a better handle on what you can do with each skill, what's more effective, and what works for different scenarios.
EVE isn't a level-based game. One could say it's a drawback to 'allow' a player to jump into a ship that they aren't prepared to fly, but most EVE players consider that a plus. It's part of the rush and challenge of the game... am I going to be able to handle this thing, or am I in over my head... how far out into low sec can I head with this..... nullsec..... a few more jumps?
EVE cannot decide for a player when they have mastered frigates and are ready for cruisers. Only the player can, and those that need more training learn quickly that that is the case.
"If, however, you want to make use of your trained abilities and pilot a bigger ship, with better equipment..."
It's personal choice. It's consequence for actions. It's risk taking. It's part of the appeal of EVE. EVE isn't about wearing leather til you level up and get chain and then level up and get plate. Learn that or the game is going to be very frustrating and expensive for you.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Very well said. Ships in EVE are consumables. You use the one that best suits the job, with no expectation of permanancy to it. They are intended to be used up.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Expensive is a relative term, (yes it is a relative term and a 1 mil isk frigate is CHEAP) and not everyone wants to play a game where they have to use gear far below their abilities, (I guess those people want to play a game where when they lose a ship they start over in their noob frigate again with NO money at all ?) knowing they are going to lose it in a few hours of gameplay anyway. Losing the best ship you can field, with the best equipment you can fit is expensive, even for someone with only a couple of weeks worth of skill training. (This is true for everyone in the game, new or old.)
I think the travel time thing is one of the most common complaints I see from trial players and new subs to Eve. ( I can see that when you are used to games with absolutely no ECONOMY and you got travel times of instant with summoning and instant travel flight paths) It was my first complaint for sure (a long list I am sure). While lots of games have 5 - 10 minutes of travel between locations, they actually make you travel during that time and be wary of the dangers along the way (The first time you go by that scenery maybe, but after that you never see the scenery again, then you just run past the same shit over and over again at level cap to get to the zones for that level. Let me ask you how many times you have done the ghost run to UBRS ? Or the AQ run in Silithis ? Or the Karazhan run ?). The journey is almost as important as the destination... (you mean that journy via summoning if you aren't running ?) but that isn't the case in Eve, at least not in high-sec which is all new players usually see. 10 to 15 minutes is a pretty long time to just watch your ship travel without wanting or needing any input from you. (maybe take it off auto pilot and your travel times would be 5-10 minutes just like other games) (or I guess those flight paths like in WoW aren't traveling without any input from you ?)
I'm not sure how either of those things can be facts he is wrong about... they both seem to fit in the opinion category to me.
Yeah, look at my first statement in the one you quoted. I believe I said what he said were merely opinions. The comment about pvp losses is false, 1 mil isk frigates are cheap and if you cannot afford to lose those then you are indeed doing something wrong. Thats like saying 1 copper for repairs on a a level capped plated warrior is expensive or something silly. And the 2nd comment of travel time is also wrong. You are not meant to be flying all over the universe all the time. You are meant to settle in an area of space you find profitable, move if you need to. Saying the travel time in Eve is too long is just silly and here is why. If you remove the travel time too much then there is no need for market regions since everything is so close to the central market hub, everyone would just go to Jita and create more lag hell. Another thing is wars would be nothing more than WoW like zergfests since everything is so close, pvp would then actually be based on who has the biggest wallet and buys the most isk.
But hey if you wanna change one of the fundamental designs of a game that works and more than likely destroying the game in the process then please go do it to another game. Eves travel times were already brought down significantly with warp to 0, try using it instead of being lazy and auto-piloting.
I was pretty much in the same boat as you. Did the trial 3 times, bought the game, started 3 different characters, and nothing.
It took me some time for me to 'get' the game, but now I find it really nice to play, and I hope you do too.
If you still want to try it out, reply with your in-game name, and I'll send you some isk
The rules of Debate are really simple; once you have to stoop to insults instead of facts, logic, or reason to try and win your argument, you've lost.
I was pretty much in the same boat as you. Did the trial 3 times, bought the game, started 3 different characters, and nothing.
It took me some time for me to 'get' the game, but now I find it really nice to play, and I hope you do too.
If you still want to try it out, reply with your in-game name, and I'll send you some isk
Thank you for all the thoughtful responses and not roasting me to a crisp. I mean that in all sincerity.
I was looking for some suggestions from people who felt like me but found answers. I was in a corp. It was sorta active. They did mining, not much else. I got no help with pve combat. That probably did not help. I found not being able to train 2 characters at once on the same account really well dumb. That does encourage you to have 2 accounts. Kinda like the way SWG did with one character per server. I admire the developers for making a game that is a success at only 300,000 players and making a viable community and world universe to play in. I have watched all of the videos from last year's fan fest. I would so love to work for CCP. But I don't live anywhere near Atlanta. Yes, I'm a programmer and thankfully employed with a very good and profitable company. After reading about the awesome breakup of BOB, god knows that so needed to happen, I was seriously afraid they would take over the entire game, it shows the meta game is just as important as the actual game and it is possible to lose everything even after years of working. But IMHO no corporation should ever get that big again in EVE. Yes I know about the goons that they are bigger.
(I've been following the game for some time. It's like watching a novel unfold in real time. I'll drop by news sites or the forums and read up on all the insanity from time to time.)
Such mixed feelings about eve in general. Each major update brings new and exciting features. But there are still some core issues to deal with. Maybe I'm approaching it the wrong way. The ship load out mini game is like the ship loadout mini game in SWG times 10000. The crafting is like SWG's times 10000. The mining is just boring, but I know they want to make it mozo (See I did watch all the videos :P ), and they are working on making it more rewarding and interactive. PvP I'm sure can be very exciting. Now I never did try PvP. In other games that have PvP it's usually over in seconds (like 6) with me loosing. I never thought that was fun. PvP should last minutes not seconds. There should be enough time for evenly matched players to use strategy and tactics to win instead of who has the biggest gun and who can spam the specials fast enough.
With WIS I hope they really (pun intended) flesh out the other "half" of the game and make playing outside your ship just as exciting as playing in your ship. My personal hope is that some day a charcter will be able to set foot a planets, habitable or not, and be able to build on them in some way. Make cities, factories, what ever I feel like. With 5000 solar systems and another 2500 systems with the new expanstion. The possibilites are endless. It's almost, no not almost, it is too big to deal with as a whole playing field. I imagine you need to limit your sphear of influance too a limited specific region of the galaxy or you'd be endless running around with no focus. Which is one of the benefits and draw backs of such a totally open universe. Just like real life you CANNOT do it all. It's simply not possible.
Thanks for reading my random thoughts on the issue. My intent was not to try to start a flame war. I think I succeeded in that.
If I were to try it again I'd buy the boxed game and start from there. I did not like where my character went since I had no clue what I was doing and want to start anew with it.
The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity. - Harlan Ellison
You never started any thing close to a flame war. We get a bad rep around here for that, but really when people come in here with some respect they generally get treated with respect back. I know I can be hard on people around here but I am fair and I am honest.
It seems to me like you ogt a handle on the game now and why it is the way it is. You are obviously willing to listen and learn when it comes to this game so you will probably be sticking around.
I don't know if we will ever get to walk and do things on planets in Eve as we know today but maybe in the sequel if they ever make one. Eve does have a good long life span in it, probably another 10 years so maybe we will see it in that time. I do know (based on old dev talks) that the first planetary interaction will come in the way ofa RTS type game. People will command those units from orbit and have wars that way. Atleast that was what was talked about way way back as being what they envisioned at that time and is of course always subject to change. Everything will be done slowly and in stages just like it always has been.
there is no other way to do it "wee" player are demigods we are immortals why whot go on foot to pew pew in a planet whit a titan can destroy a planet
One notable incident occurred on the small agricultural world of Goral, where a Gallente Titan moving into orbit caused an abrupt shift in tides, which flooded crop fields and farmland. The decrease in food production meant that the entire system, which depended on Goral for food stock, had to be supplied by merchants or face starvation. Since then, Titan navigation systems have been programmed with fail-safes to prevent them from approaching a planet so closely.
BestSigEver :P
I kind of know how you feel because I had the same foughts a while back but eventually eve just grew on me and now I love it.
Hi,
I own 3 submarine simulations because I love subs , yet I get bored by those games pretty quickly. In EVE I have found myself "trapped" in repetitive game mechanics after about 5-6 months. I hadn't left the NPC corporation I had started in, I couldn't go to low-sec without being attacked and losing my ship and I had confined myself to missions and mining. I felt that I would be doing the same stuff over and over again, just with more expensive ships. I was about to quit.
The first player corporation I joined was fun. We had plenty of nice people I fondly remember. Some of them have left EVE, with others I'm still chatting daily. The corp itself was far from perfect. We had no common goals and people ended up 10 and more jumps away from each other. Later the corp disbanded and some of the same people created/joined a new corporation. This time we had serious ambitions. We managaged to form an alliance (which disbanded) and a second alliance shortly after.
With the second alliance I moved out to 0.0. We rented a couple of systems from a larger alliance. With the 2 main leaders leaving, the alliance suddenly found itself without leadership. That was actually when I started to have the most fun within EVE. Together with the other CEOs we started shaping our alliance, sorting out our diplomatic relationships, recruiting new member corporations ... It only lasted a couple of months until we had to pack our belongings and return to high-sec space. But hey, we had our fair share of fun.
Coming from mining and missions, I had tasted at leadership, diplomacy and warfare. But returning to missions was not that bad. It didn't feel as boring as in the beginning. Maybe that was due to level 4 missions being slightly more risky then the level 3 missions I used to do before (in a passive Drake: hit F1 - F7, watch NPC explode, repeat.) But it may also have to do with the fact that I started asking people to join me on missions. Actually it was quite nice being in a busy high-sec system with a market hub within 6-7 jumps rather then 16 jumps through empty systems and at least one massive gate-camp as it had been the case in 0.0.
After almost half a year of carebearing, I started to feel the absence of meaningful events in my EVE life. Faction warfare had been introduced months ago and it promised to offer a good introduction into low-sec combat. I joined up with an ex-corpmate who had founded his own corp. And currently this suits me really well. I can do missions in high-sec quite safely or go out and hunt war-targets as I see fit. But who knows ... someday I might return to 0.0.
If I can give some advice:
- Try to find a corporation that has the same interests as you have.
- A good corporation offers mutual support at all times. If you have less then 2 players in the same solarsystem and a couple of members more then 4 jumps away, leave.
- A good CEO is a good leader. He sets the general course the corp should be heading for. But he's not just carrying out his own agenda, he's also listening to his corpmembers' concerns and wishes.
- A good corp is aware of security issues and limits access to it's belongings as to prevent corp theft.
- Don't hesitate to go your own way until you have found what you have been looking for. Never persue a career path just because someone tells you it is the most profitable or the most fun.
- All EVE players have trained skill they later regret having spend time on. Don't look back on past mistakes, the future lies ahead.