Wanted to say I had to contact turbine 2 times for rubberbanding issues and if at first I got generic messages, in the end they even sent me debbuging tools so we can find out what wasn't working.
Funny thing is it was my anti-virus that hated some of Vista updates, this without even a notification. (I had to uninstall and reinstall kasperksy)
I have never had problems with customer service from turbine, then again I've hardly ever had an issue warranting me to contact them but when I have it was sorted in no time.
I bet it would be listed as a violation on there screen only but I bet too they would have to fully search logs to find the exact cause of it. I bet there is more the OP isn't willing to tell us on this matter.
If you want to see bad customer service then try blizzard or electronic arts.
A company does not have to remind you of how you broke the rules and got banned. So if you are sharing the account with someone else, family or otherwise, (sharing accounts, no matter how innocent, tends to be against the rules in many MMOs anyways) make sure that person isn't going to lie to you when they get the account banned. Interesting that pointing out the truth isn't helpful, clearly every OP on the forums is innocent and harmed by the companies and as such everyone should agree with those posters and share their pain.
Actually, Turbine is located in the US and is incorporated as a US company. They are not located in Russia or China, or any other repressive government. Because they deprived the OP of something of value that was his (ie., the remainder of his subscription for the month), they are legally required to provide a reason for the banning. Not to do so would constitute illegal taking. They know this but for some reason are ignoring their obligation to the OP. I guess they feel they have enough subs so that they don't care about one unhappy former sub.
Also, I don't understand your self-righteous tone in your posts. Are you a Turbine employee trying to justify the actions of your employer?
First off I don't honestly see the point of bringing a post like this to forums...
Simply because there is nothing anyone here can do... its going to be a pretty isolated experience and its most likely going to turn into some kind of flame bait.
Have you ever been banned from an MMO? Perhaps you can relate to the OP. If you've never been banned or had any experience with CS for this type of thing... how could you relate?
Why is there discussion about whether you share your account with your child? I don't really care if a game company says I can "share" my account. If I let my child log into my account that should be my business. Then again I think I would supervise my child if they were logged into an MMO... for obvious reasons that have nothing to do with them being banned.
Ever notice what kind of people you often meet in MMOs and the things they discuss? Not everything gets removed by profanity filters...
I will say that before I was on the interest team in Ultima Online I was in "in game" customer service. My personal experience is going to say it took quite a lot to even get a time out (oddly enough yes we had jail cells)... let alone 3 to 7 day suspension and I honestly was only involved in one instance of a player getting a perma ban.
Personally I've had some pretty heated exchanges with CSR's in MMO's (oddly mostly in DAoC) and never got any suspension or even a warning.
So yes one would have to wonder.
As to the people I quoted...
As a consumer you do have recourse.
Pay for the account with a credit card?? Call up the company and tell them you didn't get the service you paid for and reverse the charges.
If the account is banned anyway... why not? I mean if you feel that this can't be justified or they are not willing to explain to you what happened (as all CSR actions are recorded or supposed to be.. there will be a log of what happened... and any company banning on just the "word of an employee" is not one I'd deal with.. so I suspect there are logs.. I've never seen a company that doesn't log every instance of a CS employee interacting with a customer).
Just reverse the charges... at least that's my advice.
*edited* Hate the way the new forum format clumps text and.. I began to wonder if English was my native language after reading my own post.
For starters, getting permanently banned is a priveledge that in my mind should generally be reserved for the likes of exploiters, cheaters, or hackers. Rare is the case that a person needs to be permanently banned (read: have their game copy, time and effort, and monthly fees spent completely taken from them) and in any case of such thing, it should only be for severe offenses or breakage of the EULA. That said, this guy claims ignorance to the reasons for this ban, and I believe him. That he's even willing to accept the ban given the knowledge as to why shows a maturity and responsibility for having allowed his child to play.
The OP didn't submit to us the information that he allows his 5 year-old to play for our approval - only for our information in regards to his case. Judging him for that isn't the purpose of this thread, nor is it anyone here's duty. The reality of it is, I doubt the OP is a bad person or parent, and I severly doubt his son is a tyrannical little devil running around with a loaded pistol and a bottle of vodka in a Hummer running around irratating the neighbors (or any virtual facsimile). I, too, wonder what in the hell a 5 year-old child could possibly have done to warrant such extreme punishment in a game, especially with the way some MMO players conduct themselves that are far older who go unpunished. Short of the OP unwittingly doing something himself, I just don't see the justification here.
This is a simple case of "put yourself in his shoes". Is this how I'd expect to be treated by CS? No, and if I did get handled this way, I too would be pissed and bewildered. One of the most shocking things to me is that their phone support is only open for 4 hours and 45 mins per day. Someone tried defending this because "that's when most people are home from work/school" but that's no defense at all. Less than 5 hours per day is hardly enough support to deal with the prior 24 hours' issues, and has clearly left the OP in the dark in his situation, nevermind the inconvenience to those whose schedule this tiny time-frame doesn't fit.
End of the day, the OP's only real fault in this thread is the slightly inflammitory title. Yes, this game's CS has killed LotRO for him, but for the rest, it's clear these issues seem to be the exception, not the rule. I just can't believe how some of these responses get, and how poorly received this guy's plight is. Again, put yourselves in his situation, and guage your responses from there. I don't think this guy was showing some sense of entitlement here, either, other than that he doesdeserve an explanation for the reasons I've stated above, and the fact is he probably got punished unfairly for whatever the reason must've been. All of which could've potentially saved his account, and this thread (which only got ridiculous because of some folks' lack of empathy for a fellow player's situation).
Edit: And yeah, I'd like to know how this turns out if the OP would inform us as he gets information from Turbine.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Ionselen most EULA/ToS/CoC when you agree to them have you check the box that says I agree to these terms of service. In many cases there is a line somewhere that says I am over the age of 13 and accept these ToS etc. So that is a great reason why a 5 year old probably shouldn't be playing.
But in the case that this is not written in Turbine's statements/accepting the agreements text then how about the fact that the game is rated Teen.
Another great reason for not letting a 5 year old play might be the fact that the kid doesn't know when he's doing something against the rules and can get the account banned and then you might not know the reason for the ban and have to come complaining to forums that the world is ending because of poor customer service.
People are saying hey think of it from this guy's point of view. Try thinking of it from Turbine's point of view or any other company for that matter.
How many gold selling spammers do they have to deal with in a day and ban, how many exploiters hackers cheaters etc? How many of those people send endless e-mails wanting their accounts to be unbanned and they feel they didn't do anything wrong?
From playing LotRO I know there was hardly an hour that went by without someone spamming chat with Buy cheap gold now!! go to blah blah blah... I'm sure they get in the habit of banning the person and when people come back trying to get the account unbanned they've gotten used to sending them the you violated CoC message. To think this isn't a daily occurance with people who do deserve to be banned would be a very short sighted view of the world.
So yes it is unfortunate that his kid messed up and got him banned, for all we know he just had his hand pressed on the keyboard and accidently spammed chat for 3 minutes straight, got warnings didn't know what was going on and got booted and banned. But assuming the company is evil here is ridiculous, and thinking you are owed anything when you are the one who messed up is also ridiculous.
But as I said before the best bet for getting it fixed is 1) Getting Turbine on the phone even if their hours suck and are very inconvenient and then explaining the situation 2) If it does get fixed get the kid his own account to mess around on to avoid future issues.
I didn't read everything in this post but I have an idea of what might have happened. A long time ago when credit cards expired and Turbine would try to charge them it would result in a 30 year ban. Did you just get a new credit card, did the one on file with them expire? That's my only guess, and good luck wherever you end up.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
First off, I have to say that I have nothing but good experiences with Turbine CS - enough so that I would say they are one of the best / most responsive in the industry.
As to your specific case - it sounds like you got hit by really bad timing. Whatever the reason for your ban , it hit at the same time as a major outage for LotRO which is *naturally* going to slow down responses. They had a very rough week with the code for whatever reason around that time.
So....my advice:
Take a deep breath and relax, Send them another polite email explaining what happened and asking for an explanation - make NO assumptions about what you were banned for and don't come across as insulting/beligerent in that email. If that doesn't get you an answer within 1-2 days, send it again with an additional line about the time already passed and asking for it to be escalated.
As far as what actually happened, you just don't know. I've known 5yr olds to spout some pretty amazing things at times and if you weren't there you have no idea what he did/typed or possibly even said on voice chat unless you have the mic locked down.
Lastly - as others have said - while there are limits to what can be agreed to in a "click through eula", one that they are well within their "rights" on is to terminate your service for any violation they care to take offense to. Same deal as if you get kicked out of amusement park XX before you can spend all your ride tickets...you aren't entitled to a refund on the entrance fee or unused tickets...it's not a matter of opinion, it's just how it is.
Ionselen most EULA/ToS/CoC when you agree to them have you check the box that says I agree to these terms of service. In many cases there is a line somewhere that says I am over the age of 13 and accept these ToS etc. So that is a great reason why a 5 year old probably shouldn't be playing. But in the case that this is not written in Turbine's statements/accepting the agreements text then how about the fact that the game is rated Teen.
This argument hardly holds water. The account owner is clearly older than 13, and there's no way to verify a player's age in a game short of them telling you so. Do you really think that everyone playing games are the age required by its rating? Look at Age of Conan, rated M, where you log in and can see tits with nipples within 10 seconds of logging in, then chop off NPC's limbs and heads a few minutes later. You really think everyone playing that game is 18-21+? More importantly to the point, do you think that Funcom (or any game company) has any way to verify the age of their players outside of the initial credit card payments and "age verification" which anyone can lie about? Turbine didn't know it was a 5 year-old playing his dad's account.
Another great reason for not letting a 5 year old play might be the fact that the kid doesn't know when he's doing something against the rules and can get the account banned and then you might not know the reason for the ban and have to come complaining to forums that the world is ending because of poor customer service.
Great point here about not knowing the true reason you got banned due to your 5 year-old not being able to communicate to you what he did to cause such a thing. This still doesn't change the fact that Turbine has utterly failed to inform this player why his account was banned, and is clearly offering little to no communication when it is their responsibility to do so.
People are saying hey think of it from this guy's point of view. Try thinking of it from Turbine's point of view or any other company for that matter. How many gold selling spammers do they have to deal with in a day and ban, how many exploiters hackers cheaters etc? How many of those people send endless e-mails wanting their accounts to be unbanned and they feel they didn't do anything wrong?
I sincerely doubt that RMT/gold selling accounts try contesting their behavior in attempts to recover their accounts. I also doubt that any player caught hacking/cheating is sending "endless e-mails" to save theirs either - they know the consequences of intentionally attempting to cheat the game though I'm sure some try. As for exploiters, I can see them trying to save their asses by pleading ignorance when in most cases they knew what they were doing. Still, this doesn't excuse Turbine. This merely highlights their inadequacies in coping with the owners of accounts they've banned. I pointed out previously that their hours of phone support are appauling, and show a cheapness of Turbine not to employ more people, or run longer hours to accomodate incoming issues which, again, you clearly highlight they can't cope with. I know that I, for one, wouldn't want to compete with every other person who's had problems during the day in the extremely limited time-frame after just getting home from work, or school. It just means the lines are going to be that much longer to get served. This is NOT how I'd want to spend my down-time once I got home from a day of work just because the lines to be helped are suddenly jam-packed with players who've had issues all day.
From playing LotRO I know there was hardly an hour that went by without someone spamming chat with Buy cheap gold now!! go to blah blah blah... I'm sure they get in the habit of banning the person and when people come back trying to get the account unbanned they've gotten used to sending them the you violated CoC message. To think this isn't a daily occurance with people who do deserve to be banned would be a very short sighted view of the world.
To assume that RMT 'businesses' don't know the score is also short-sighted. Lost accounts are likely business expenses to these companies, and is something I'm sure that by now they are accustomed to dealing with. Your statement practically assumes that somewhere in Asia, there's a gold-selling company that has a department of sorts that consistantly tries daily to recover accounts lost through a game's customer support. While this may be the case, it's ludicrous, in MY opinion, to think they ever expect to get accounts back. Again, regardless, this is no excuse for Turbine to shrug off every inquiry they receive about bannings of players' accounts. Your argument might hold water in small business practices when the customer base is small, and you have few people dealing with people who have issues, but this should not be the case in a big business such as running an MMO with hundreds of thousands of subscribers.
So yes it is unfortunate that his kid messed up and got him banned, for all we know he just had his hand pressed on the keyboard and accidently spammed chat for 3 minutes straight, got warnings didn't know what was going on and got booted and banned. But assuming the company is evil here is ridiculous, and thinking you are owed anything when you are the one who messed up is also ridiculous.
If what you say happened to be the case - that the kid accidentally spammed chat - do you really think the punishment here (a permanent ban) fits the crime? Noone called the company evil, either - merely inadequate. Again, I'll defend the OP in that he didn't say he was owed anything but an explanation. He clearly would accept their ban given appropriate reason and he should have the ability to contest the banning if he feels unfairly dealt with. The reality is, the company could not have possibly known who was playing this man's account, especially given that it would've been from the same IP of the owner who always plays it, and thus there's no way for them to have determined a 5 year-old kid was playing.
But as I said before the best bet for getting it fixed is 1) Getting Turbine on the phone even if their hours suck and are very inconvenient and then explaining the situation 2) If it does get fixed get the kid his own account to mess around on to avoid future issues.
The bottom line here, to me, is that Turbine has shown a clear inadequacy in their dealings with this particular case. That this guy has slipped through the cracks is a mistake, and trying to excuse it because of the practices of others who get banned is just wrong. This whole argument is like saying that everyone who tries to return an item under warranty is doing so falsely because they broke said item by intent, and that's it OK that now and again someone doesn't get their truly defective/faulty item replaced because so many others break their stuff before the warranty expires to get a new one. No, no, and no. If the company in question doesn't have the resources to support their product, that is their fault and not the fault of the consumer who bought it.
The OP here may very well be evil - he could have RMT'd/hacked/cheated/exploited and might just be here making up this story to bash Turbine because his character is now lost. However, while that could be the case, it's much much easier to believe that in fact Turbine is the one at fault here given the facts and how they are presented here. I'd happily admit I was wrong however, if this is not the case. Regardless, I for one am stating and have stated that this case seems to be the exception with Turbine, and not the rule. I'm merely agreeing that if the OP's post is honest, this whole mess is clearly mishandled in a way that would piss me off to quite a degree as well.
Edit: Just to add a final thought. I in no way condone the this guy's practice of allowing his 5 year-old to play, and I do think he all but sacrificed the right to his account when he let the child do so. It's akin to pulling off a sticker that clearly states "warranty void if removed" then expecting a replacement. The only reason I support the OP is because it's clear that this situation has been mis-handled, and simple logic dictates that they could not possibly know of the only clear offense against the EULA that we currently know of the OP - that a child played the account. Anyway, it just occured to me after re-reading my post that the above could easily be assumed, and wanted to clarify.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Shiymmas I'm glad you took the time to read something before putting your ideas back. At no point did I say he should of been banned because he had a 5 year old playing, I said and stand by the fact that it is stupid to have a 5 year old playing.
And to keep my response to you short, I will once again say he is not owed anything. I highly doubt they randomly picked a name out of a hat to ban that day, so the unattended 5 year old playing the game obviously did something to get banned. And they more then likely sent a message to the person playing at the time, the 5 year old, as to why they were banned.
But let's take the standard American approach (and yes I'm American too) and say that it is never their fault, always the other guy.
Turbine doesn't owe the OP an explanation. Sure it would be great customer service if they provided one, but they are under no obligation to do so, nor should it be expected. Someone on his account did something they weren't supposed to, and the company took action.
I highly doubt this is anything other than a simple case of numbers, and certainly not a big evil corporation being big and evil, as some of the more clueless folks in this thread have intimated. They more than likely don't have the time/manpower to personally respond to all of their support requests and someone that has willfully broken rules will probably be dropped to the bottom of the list. Turbine exists to make money, not to make sure the OP and his kid have a good time.
Shiymmas I'm glad you took the time to read something before putting your ideas back. At no point did I say he should of been banned because he had a 5 year old playing, I said and stand by the fact that it is stupid to have a 5 year old playing.
And to keep my response to you short, I will once again say he is not owed anything. I highly doubt they randomly picked a name out of a hat to ban that day, so the unattended 5 year old playing the game obviously did something to get banned. And they more then likely sent a message to the person playing at the time, the 5 year old, as to why they were banned.
But let's take the standard American approach (and yes I'm American too) and say that it is never their fault, always the other guy.
Yeah, if anything I'm playing devil's advocate here I suppose. I just know how I'd feel in this guy's position. Also, I JUST edited my prior message to you to clarify a point, so I'd appreciate you re-reading to catch my edit at the end - it'll clarify my stance on the righteousness of the OP. Another view to look from is to remove the 5 year-old from the equation altogether, and add to our facts that this guy was offline when this ban took place. I've known a few people who've been banned while offline due to something popping up in a checked log that associated them with some sort of offense. It's a simple thing to imagine taking place.
And by the by, I'm not putting fault to anything that doesn't require blame. From the facts given here, the only true faults are that of Turbine's inadequate dealings with this player, and this player's removal of his own rights by allowing his child to play. Furthermore, I'm a big advocate of innocent until proven guilty - not the other way around, and this case is very clearly, in my mind, a case of guilty until proven innocent against the OP.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Shiymmas I'm glad you took the time to read something before putting your ideas back. At no point did I say he should of been banned because he had a 5 year old playing, I said and stand by the fact that it is stupid to have a 5 year old playing.
And to keep my response to you short, I will once again say he is not owed anything. I highly doubt they randomly picked a name out of a hat to ban that day, so the unattended 5 year old playing the game obviously did something to get banned. And they more then likely sent a message to the person playing at the time, the 5 year old, as to why they were banned.
But let's take the standard American approach (and yes I'm American too) and say that it is never their fault, always the other guy.
Yeah, if anything I'm playing devil's advocate here I suppose. I just know how I'd feel in this guy's position. Also, I JUST edited my prior message to you to clarify a point, so I'd appreciate you re-reading to catch my edit at the end - it'll clarify my stance on the righteousness of the OP. Another view to look from is to remove the 5 year-old from the equation altogether, and add to our facts that this guy was offline when this ban took place. I've known a few people who've been banned while offline due to something popping up in a checked log that associated them with some sort of offense. It's a simple thing to imagine taking place.
And by the by, I'm not putting fault to anything that doesn't require blame. From the facts given here, the only true faults are that of Turbine's inadequate dealings with this player, and this player's removal of his own rights by allowing his child to play. Furthermore, I'm a big advocate of innocent until proven guilty - not the other way around, and this case is very clearly, in my mind, a case of guilty until proven innocent against the OP.
Shiymmas,
Innocent until proven guilty is a maxim of criminal law. Even to the extent that it's considered a fair principle to apply generally in any case, it's usually made inapplicable to EULA cases by the express language of the EULA.
It's extremely important to read any contract into which you enter. You can't just assume that one person's own subjective principles of fairness will apply to the resolution of a contractual dispute.
Innocent until proven guilty is a maxim of criminal law. Even to the extent that it's considered a fair principle to apply generally in any case, it's usually made inapplicable to EULA cases by the express language of the EULA.
It's extremely important to read any contract into which you enter. You can't just assume that one person's own subjective principles of fairness will apply to the resolution of a contractual dispute.
Look, I get that. I'm not trying to dispute how he must've (clearly) broken his contract with Turbine. I'm trying to keep this at its most basic point and pointing out what I believed to be the original intent of the OP - that he received punishment for a violation of which he had no knowledge, that he has slipped through Turbine's customer support cracks, and that he came here to submit his case to our judgement, as he feels unfairly treated and dealt with. My simple, simple case is that I agree that this entire thing is unfair, short of a true offense in-game (I guess I don't think perma-ban fits letting your 5 y/o get on your account for a little while). Some kid accidentally spamming chat for a few minutes, even using profanity while doing so, in MY opinion, doesn't warrant this punishment. I use that as an example - not as what took place - because I can't possibly imagine what worse a 5 year-old child could possibly have done, can you? This still assumes the OP's innocence, however, and we have no clue how he may conduct himself regularly.
End of the day, I swear I'm almost as curious as to why this guy got banned as HE is now, and either way all I can do is make whatever points I can based on the facts presented here. That's all I'm doing.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
I do think the OP should be given a response as to why his account got banned. The OP even might have done something that is considered bannable (other than sharing his account) that was discovered, but he did not know that it was even truly wrong. I'm pretty sure that that sounds goofy, and most of the rules are common sense, but most people really don't read the EULA (btw, most of the time I don't remember what that stands for, in my minds it spells "rules).
But I wonder if the kid got a tell from someone, or somehow sent a tell to another player, and decided he liked the noise and kept doing it to make "music" and then got reported for harassment/spamming, but kept doing it... and got banned.
Just wondering, did he say the game "broke" while he was playing it, or did he try to log in and found out it was "broken"? If it was when he was playing, try to worm out what he did when it broke (and remind him that you aren't going to be angry, that he's not in trouble), have him act out what he was doing in game, maybe.
I'm really curious what any 5 year old could have done to earn a permaban. It's not like a situation where adults are talking and someone lets a curseword slip and the kid knows it's bad and repeats it endlessly on maximum volume, I don't think most 5 year olds would know a badword that's spelled out and not spoken to spam it and end up banned.
And OP, *you* didn't buy gold right? Just thinking about another base to cover. ((I've only had one person I liked get banned for buying gold, and while I was sad he got banned, he deserved it. Because people like him causes the goldfarmers/spammers to stick around!))
For my own part, I've been extremely impressed with LotRO's support. Many of you no doubt know how the April Fool's Day chicken quest was disabled shortly after it had been made available. Unfortunately, it left me with a quest in my log that couldn't be deleted.
Yesterday I happened to be thinking about it and submited a petition. In less than five minutes I received a GM response, and they had the quest deleted from my log a few minutes later. I was extremely impressed, and this was without doubt the best experience that I've ever had with any game's support.
By comparison, I had a couple issues in WoW two months ago that required GM response. Both of them took over six hours for a GM to actually get to me.
I also have just been banned until Aug 2036. It happened Sunday night after playing for a couple of hours (I was doing the Warg-slayer deed in the Angmar where you have to kill 350 wargs to get the Determination trait) I got dropped off the server with the message "you have been banned". Now unlike this other gentleman that was banned I don't have children. My wife and I play together on separate computers and separate accounts. I have not been emailed or contacted in any shape or form as to why the ban. I have also sent numerous emails to the support with no replies, tried to post a message on the lotro forums only to get a canned message that "disciplinary actions should never be disscussed" on their forums. It might also be easier to get a hold of the president of the United States of America on the telephone than their support/service agent. I too am at a loss as to why I have been banned. I never type or chat in-game (mostly because I'm so slow and slightly anti-social) My wife and I would never even think about buying (stupid) game gold for money.... so what gives? I've just read the EULA a couple of times thoroughly and I'm left here scratching my head. If its some sort of mistake or technical error on their part I can accept that but at least communicate with me please.
I also have just been banned until Aug 2036. It happened Sunday night after playing for a couple of hours (I was doing the Warg-slayer deed in the Angmar where you have to kill 350 wargs to get the Determination trait) I got dropped off the server with the message "you have been banned". Now unlike this other gentleman that was banned I don't have children. My wife and I play together on separate computers and separate accounts. I have not been emailed or contacted in any shape or form as to why the ban. I have also sent numerous emails to the support with no replies, tried to post a message on the lotro forums only to get a canned message that "disciplinary actions should never be disscussed" on their forums. It might also be easier to get a hold of the president of the United States of America on the telephone than their support/service agent. I too am at a loss as to why I have been banned. I never type or chat in-game (mostly because I'm so slow and slightly anti-social) My wife and I would never even think about buying (stupid) game gold for money.... so what gives? I've just read the EULA a couple of times thoroughly and I'm left here scratching my head. If its some sort of mistake or technical error on their part I can accept that but at least communicate with me please.
call them, see if that help. here is the info:
Speak live with one of our Account Management Representatives via telephone from 4:00 p.m. - 8:45 p.m. ET Monday - Friday by dialing:
I didn't read everything in this post but I have an idea of what might have happened. A long time ago when credit cards expired and Turbine would try to charge them it would result in a 30 year ban. Did you just get a new credit card, did the one on file with them expire? That's my only guess, and good luck wherever you end up.
This is exactly what I was thinking too. Especially that he later stated that he got the ban shortly after subscription renewal.
Did you check if your creditcard was actually charged OP?
I had a similar problem with LOTRO here in EU with Codemasters.
Last year I bought Mines of Moria through CM's Online Servers and had to pay through Click&Buy (as they had PayPal not up yet).
Order was approved, creditcard charged and expansion added to my account.
Then a day later I got an email from Click&Buy that my order was canceled and money refunded.
Now here comes the fun:
Codemasters saw it as a deliberate chargeback and thought I was scamming them > Account immediately banned!
Long story short: I have spend over 100 euros (more then $150) on phone bills calling with Click&Buy and Codemasters support to sort out all the mess.
In the end it was ofcourse all the fault of Click&Buy as they screwed up with my order and something went wrong within their system to cancel my order, without my concent!
So like the person I was quoting. Lifetime bans are usually only given when you cheat, exploit, but moreso when something goes wrong with payment and they suspect being scammed (creditcard chargebacks).
I will add my comment to others suggesting you check and make sure that your subscription went through okay. I have had issues before were my card company suddenly blocked charges from online gaming sites without asking or notifying me. Some card companies have automatic "fraud protection" cut off filters that get a bit over-zealous.
I'd just add one thought for those wanting to throw Turbine under the bus. When you deal with customer service issues, all you're going to hear are the bad experiences. The vast majority of thier customers are most likely content either never having to contact CS or if they have, were satisfied with the experiecne. When something goes wrong, that's when you get the firestorm. People very rarely if ever will post in forums to chat up good service, it's not our nature and it's also what we expect.
Also, we have to accept the OP's account of all this at facec value, we have not heard anything from Turbine. Simply put, we only have one side of the story. Not casting stones to the OP, but quite frankly I don't know him or if he has an agenda.
So we accept the OP at face value and doing that, we must encourage the OP to find out what caused the ban and report back here if he wishes. The story is not complete at this time.
I wanted to give you all (and Caltone) an update because Turbine has finally contacted me by email:
Greetings Dave,
We have released your account as it was suspended in error. We deeply apologize for this mistake, and will be adding seven days of game time to your account as a result. We will also investigate further to determine how not to do this in the future. Thank you for your patience while we looked into this.
Thank you,
Turbine In-Game Support
I stated in my ealier post that if it was a technical error I would understand. That's exactly what it turned out to be....
I'm really curious what any 5 year old could have done to earn a permaban. It's not like a situation where adults are talking and someone lets a curseword slip and the kid knows it's bad and repeats it endlessly on maximum volume, I don't think most 5 year olds would know a badword that's spelled out and not spoken to spam it and end up banned.
Right off the top of my head I'm thinking he could have shouted "Gold for sale" in global chat.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That's one of the scary things about MMORPGs. You're basically completely dependant on the whims of the company running the game. If they make a mistake, you're out of luck, unless they catch it, like in this case.
Actually if the company states in the ToS that they will send an email to anyone that violates the tos to explain why they are banned then they are required to send out that email. A ToS is a contract that has two ends, the people playing the game accept adhereing to it, and the company has to adhere to it as well. The Terms of service agreement are as always and important factor for all games, without these the developers hands are tied. However the ToS on LoTRo doesn't require a notice from turbine, if you really read it the ToS or EULA is written to screw players over. It basically says at anytime turbine can decide what you did is banable and ban you, then add it into the EULA later and everyone has to live up to it.
Actually if the company states in the ToS that they will send an email to anyone that violates the tos to explain why they are banned then they are required to send out that email. A ToS is a contract that has two ends, the people playing the game accept adhereing to it, and the company has to adhere to it as well. The Terms of service agreement are as always and important factor for all games, without these the developers hands are tied. However the ToS on LoTRo doesn't require a notice from turbine, if you really read it the ToS or EULA is written to screw players over. It basically says at anytime turbine can decide what you did is banable and ban you, then add it into the EULA later and everyone has to live up to it.
That's why ToS's and EULA's never hold up in court anymore.
More and more judges are getting fed up by companies setting up this kind of garbage they're calling ToS and EULA.
Comments
Wanted to say I had to contact turbine 2 times for rubberbanding issues and if at first I got generic messages, in the end they even sent me debbuging tools so we can find out what wasn't working.
Funny thing is it was my anti-virus that hated some of Vista updates, this without even a notification. (I had to uninstall and reinstall kasperksy)
I have never had problems with customer service from turbine, then again I've hardly ever had an issue warranting me to contact them but when I have it was sorted in no time.
I bet it would be listed as a violation on there screen only but I bet too they would have to fully search logs to find the exact cause of it. I bet there is more the OP isn't willing to tell us on this matter.
If you want to see bad customer service then try blizzard or electronic arts.
Actually, Turbine is located in the US and is incorporated as a US company. They are not located in Russia or China, or any other repressive government. Because they deprived the OP of something of value that was his (ie., the remainder of his subscription for the month), they are legally required to provide a reason for the banning. Not to do so would constitute illegal taking. They know this but for some reason are ignoring their obligation to the OP. I guess they feel they have enough subs so that they don't care about one unhappy former sub.
Also, I don't understand your self-righteous tone in your posts. Are you a Turbine employee trying to justify the actions of your employer?
First off I don't honestly see the point of bringing a post like this to forums...
Simply because there is nothing anyone here can do... its going to be a pretty isolated experience and its most likely going to turn into some kind of flame bait.
Have you ever been banned from an MMO? Perhaps you can relate to the OP. If you've never been banned or had any experience with CS for this type of thing... how could you relate?
Why is there discussion about whether you share your account with your child? I don't really care if a game company says I can "share" my account. If I let my child log into my account that should be my business. Then again I think I would supervise my child if they were logged into an MMO... for obvious reasons that have nothing to do with them being banned.
Ever notice what kind of people you often meet in MMOs and the things they discuss? Not everything gets removed by profanity filters...
I will say that before I was on the interest team in Ultima Online I was in "in game" customer service. My personal experience is going to say it took quite a lot to even get a time out (oddly enough yes we had jail cells)... let alone 3 to 7 day suspension and I honestly was only involved in one instance of a player getting a perma ban.
Personally I've had some pretty heated exchanges with CSR's in MMO's (oddly mostly in DAoC) and never got any suspension or even a warning.
So yes one would have to wonder.
As to the people I quoted...
As a consumer you do have recourse.
Pay for the account with a credit card?? Call up the company and tell them you didn't get the service you paid for and reverse the charges.
If the account is banned anyway... why not? I mean if you feel that this can't be justified or they are not willing to explain to you what happened (as all CSR actions are recorded or supposed to be.. there will be a log of what happened... and any company banning on just the "word of an employee" is not one I'd deal with.. so I suspect there are logs.. I've never seen a company that doesn't log every instance of a CS employee interacting with a customer).
Just reverse the charges... at least that's my advice.
*edited* Hate the way the new forum format clumps text and.. I began to wonder if English was my native language after reading my own post.
Personally, I feel for the OP here.
For starters, getting permanently banned is a priveledge that in my mind should generally be reserved for the likes of exploiters, cheaters, or hackers. Rare is the case that a person needs to be permanently banned (read: have their game copy, time and effort, and monthly fees spent completely taken from them) and in any case of such thing, it should only be for severe offenses or breakage of the EULA. That said, this guy claims ignorance to the reasons for this ban, and I believe him. That he's even willing to accept the ban given the knowledge as to why shows a maturity and responsibility for having allowed his child to play.
The OP didn't submit to us the information that he allows his 5 year-old to play for our approval - only for our information in regards to his case. Judging him for that isn't the purpose of this thread, nor is it anyone here's duty. The reality of it is, I doubt the OP is a bad person or parent, and I severly doubt his son is a tyrannical little devil running around with a loaded pistol and a bottle of vodka in a Hummer running around irratating the neighbors (or any virtual facsimile). I, too, wonder what in the hell a 5 year-old child could possibly have done to warrant such extreme punishment in a game, especially with the way some MMO players conduct themselves that are far older who go unpunished. Short of the OP unwittingly doing something himself, I just don't see the justification here.
This is a simple case of "put yourself in his shoes". Is this how I'd expect to be treated by CS? No, and if I did get handled this way, I too would be pissed and bewildered. One of the most shocking things to me is that their phone support is only open for 4 hours and 45 mins per day. Someone tried defending this because "that's when most people are home from work/school" but that's no defense at all. Less than 5 hours per day is hardly enough support to deal with the prior 24 hours' issues, and has clearly left the OP in the dark in his situation, nevermind the inconvenience to those whose schedule this tiny time-frame doesn't fit.
End of the day, the OP's only real fault in this thread is the slightly inflammitory title. Yes, this game's CS has killed LotRO for him, but for the rest, it's clear these issues seem to be the exception, not the rule. I just can't believe how some of these responses get, and how poorly received this guy's plight is. Again, put yourselves in his situation, and guage your responses from there. I don't think this guy was showing some sense of entitlement here, either, other than that he does deserve an explanation for the reasons I've stated above, and the fact is he probably got punished unfairly for whatever the reason must've been. All of which could've potentially saved his account, and this thread (which only got ridiculous because of some folks' lack of empathy for a fellow player's situation).
Edit: And yeah, I'd like to know how this turns out if the OP would inform us as he gets information from Turbine.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Ionselen most EULA/ToS/CoC when you agree to them have you check the box that says I agree to these terms of service. In many cases there is a line somewhere that says I am over the age of 13 and accept these ToS etc. So that is a great reason why a 5 year old probably shouldn't be playing.
But in the case that this is not written in Turbine's statements/accepting the agreements text then how about the fact that the game is rated Teen.
Another great reason for not letting a 5 year old play might be the fact that the kid doesn't know when he's doing something against the rules and can get the account banned and then you might not know the reason for the ban and have to come complaining to forums that the world is ending because of poor customer service.
People are saying hey think of it from this guy's point of view. Try thinking of it from Turbine's point of view or any other company for that matter.
How many gold selling spammers do they have to deal with in a day and ban, how many exploiters hackers cheaters etc? How many of those people send endless e-mails wanting their accounts to be unbanned and they feel they didn't do anything wrong?
From playing LotRO I know there was hardly an hour that went by without someone spamming chat with Buy cheap gold now!! go to blah blah blah... I'm sure they get in the habit of banning the person and when people come back trying to get the account unbanned they've gotten used to sending them the you violated CoC message. To think this isn't a daily occurance with people who do deserve to be banned would be a very short sighted view of the world.
So yes it is unfortunate that his kid messed up and got him banned, for all we know he just had his hand pressed on the keyboard and accidently spammed chat for 3 minutes straight, got warnings didn't know what was going on and got booted and banned. But assuming the company is evil here is ridiculous, and thinking you are owed anything when you are the one who messed up is also ridiculous.
But as I said before the best bet for getting it fixed is 1) Getting Turbine on the phone even if their hours suck and are very inconvenient and then explaining the situation 2) If it does get fixed get the kid his own account to mess around on to avoid future issues.
I didn't read everything in this post but I have an idea of what might have happened. A long time ago when credit cards expired and Turbine would try to charge them it would result in a 30 year ban. Did you just get a new credit card, did the one on file with them expire? That's my only guess, and good luck wherever you end up.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
First off, I have to say that I have nothing but good experiences with Turbine CS - enough so that I would say they are one of the best / most responsive in the industry.
As to your specific case - it sounds like you got hit by really bad timing. Whatever the reason for your ban , it hit at the same time as a major outage for LotRO which is *naturally* going to slow down responses. They had a very rough week with the code for whatever reason around that time.
So....my advice:
Take a deep breath and relax, Send them another polite email explaining what happened and asking for an explanation - make NO assumptions about what you were banned for and don't come across as insulting/beligerent in that email. If that doesn't get you an answer within 1-2 days, send it again with an additional line about the time already passed and asking for it to be escalated.
As far as what actually happened, you just don't know. I've known 5yr olds to spout some pretty amazing things at times and if you weren't there you have no idea what he did/typed or possibly even said on voice chat unless you have the mic locked down.
Lastly - as others have said - while there are limits to what can be agreed to in a "click through eula", one that they are well within their "rights" on is to terminate your service for any violation they care to take offense to. Same deal as if you get kicked out of amusement park XX before you can spend all your ride tickets...you aren't entitled to a refund on the entrance fee or unused tickets...it's not a matter of opinion, it's just how it is.
The bottom line here, to me, is that Turbine has shown a clear inadequacy in their dealings with this particular case. That this guy has slipped through the cracks is a mistake, and trying to excuse it because of the practices of others who get banned is just wrong. This whole argument is like saying that everyone who tries to return an item under warranty is doing so falsely because they broke said item by intent, and that's it OK that now and again someone doesn't get their truly defective/faulty item replaced because so many others break their stuff before the warranty expires to get a new one. No, no, and no. If the company in question doesn't have the resources to support their product, that is their fault and not the fault of the consumer who bought it.
The OP here may very well be evil - he could have RMT'd/hacked/cheated/exploited and might just be here making up this story to bash Turbine because his character is now lost. However, while that could be the case, it's much much easier to believe that in fact Turbine is the one at fault here given the facts and how they are presented here. I'd happily admit I was wrong however, if this is not the case. Regardless, I for one am stating and have stated that this case seems to be the exception with Turbine, and not the rule. I'm merely agreeing that if the OP's post is honest, this whole mess is clearly mishandled in a way that would piss me off to quite a degree as well.
Edit: Just to add a final thought. I in no way condone the this guy's practice of allowing his 5 year-old to play, and I do think he all but sacrificed the right to his account when he let the child do so. It's akin to pulling off a sticker that clearly states "warranty void if removed" then expecting a replacement. The only reason I support the OP is because it's clear that this situation has been mis-handled, and simple logic dictates that they could not possibly know of the only clear offense against the EULA that we currently know of the OP - that a child played the account. Anyway, it just occured to me after re-reading my post that the above could easily be assumed, and wanted to clarify.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Shiymmas I'm glad you took the time to read something before putting your ideas back. At no point did I say he should of been banned because he had a 5 year old playing, I said and stand by the fact that it is stupid to have a 5 year old playing.
And to keep my response to you short, I will once again say he is not owed anything. I highly doubt they randomly picked a name out of a hat to ban that day, so the unattended 5 year old playing the game obviously did something to get banned. And they more then likely sent a message to the person playing at the time, the 5 year old, as to why they were banned.
But let's take the standard American approach (and yes I'm American too) and say that it is never their fault, always the other guy.
Turbine doesn't owe the OP an explanation. Sure it would be great customer service if they provided one, but they are under no obligation to do so, nor should it be expected. Someone on his account did something they weren't supposed to, and the company took action.
I highly doubt this is anything other than a simple case of numbers, and certainly not a big evil corporation being big and evil, as some of the more clueless folks in this thread have intimated. They more than likely don't have the time/manpower to personally respond to all of their support requests and someone that has willfully broken rules will probably be dropped to the bottom of the list. Turbine exists to make money, not to make sure the OP and his kid have a good time.
Yeah, if anything I'm playing devil's advocate here I suppose. I just know how I'd feel in this guy's position. Also, I JUST edited my prior message to you to clarify a point, so I'd appreciate you re-reading to catch my edit at the end - it'll clarify my stance on the righteousness of the OP. Another view to look from is to remove the 5 year-old from the equation altogether, and add to our facts that this guy was offline when this ban took place. I've known a few people who've been banned while offline due to something popping up in a checked log that associated them with some sort of offense. It's a simple thing to imagine taking place.
And by the by, I'm not putting fault to anything that doesn't require blame. From the facts given here, the only true faults are that of Turbine's inadequate dealings with this player, and this player's removal of his own rights by allowing his child to play. Furthermore, I'm a big advocate of innocent until proven guilty - not the other way around, and this case is very clearly, in my mind, a case of guilty until proven innocent against the OP.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Yeah, if anything I'm playing devil's advocate here I suppose. I just know how I'd feel in this guy's position. Also, I JUST edited my prior message to you to clarify a point, so I'd appreciate you re-reading to catch my edit at the end - it'll clarify my stance on the righteousness of the OP. Another view to look from is to remove the 5 year-old from the equation altogether, and add to our facts that this guy was offline when this ban took place. I've known a few people who've been banned while offline due to something popping up in a checked log that associated them with some sort of offense. It's a simple thing to imagine taking place.
And by the by, I'm not putting fault to anything that doesn't require blame. From the facts given here, the only true faults are that of Turbine's inadequate dealings with this player, and this player's removal of his own rights by allowing his child to play. Furthermore, I'm a big advocate of innocent until proven guilty - not the other way around, and this case is very clearly, in my mind, a case of guilty until proven innocent against the OP.
Shiymmas,
Innocent until proven guilty is a maxim of criminal law. Even to the extent that it's considered a fair principle to apply generally in any case, it's usually made inapplicable to EULA cases by the express language of the EULA.
It's extremely important to read any contract into which you enter. You can't just assume that one person's own subjective principles of fairness will apply to the resolution of a contractual dispute.
Shiymmas,
Innocent until proven guilty is a maxim of criminal law. Even to the extent that it's considered a fair principle to apply generally in any case, it's usually made inapplicable to EULA cases by the express language of the EULA.
It's extremely important to read any contract into which you enter. You can't just assume that one person's own subjective principles of fairness will apply to the resolution of a contractual dispute.
Look, I get that. I'm not trying to dispute how he must've (clearly) broken his contract with Turbine. I'm trying to keep this at its most basic point and pointing out what I believed to be the original intent of the OP - that he received punishment for a violation of which he had no knowledge, that he has slipped through Turbine's customer support cracks, and that he came here to submit his case to our judgement, as he feels unfairly treated and dealt with. My simple, simple case is that I agree that this entire thing is unfair, short of a true offense in-game (I guess I don't think perma-ban fits letting your 5 y/o get on your account for a little while). Some kid accidentally spamming chat for a few minutes, even using profanity while doing so, in MY opinion, doesn't warrant this punishment. I use that as an example - not as what took place - because I can't possibly imagine what worse a 5 year-old child could possibly have done, can you? This still assumes the OP's innocence, however, and we have no clue how he may conduct himself regularly.
End of the day, I swear I'm almost as curious as to why this guy got banned as HE is now, and either way all I can do is make whatever points I can based on the facts presented here. That's all I'm doing.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
I do think the OP should be given a response as to why his account got banned. The OP even might have done something that is considered bannable (other than sharing his account) that was discovered, but he did not know that it was even truly wrong. I'm pretty sure that that sounds goofy, and most of the rules are common sense, but most people really don't read the EULA (btw, most of the time I don't remember what that stands for, in my minds it spells "rules).
But I wonder if the kid got a tell from someone, or somehow sent a tell to another player, and decided he liked the noise and kept doing it to make "music" and then got reported for harassment/spamming, but kept doing it... and got banned.
Just wondering, did he say the game "broke" while he was playing it, or did he try to log in and found out it was "broken"? If it was when he was playing, try to worm out what he did when it broke (and remind him that you aren't going to be angry, that he's not in trouble), have him act out what he was doing in game, maybe.
I'm really curious what any 5 year old could have done to earn a permaban. It's not like a situation where adults are talking and someone lets a curseword slip and the kid knows it's bad and repeats it endlessly on maximum volume, I don't think most 5 year olds would know a badword that's spelled out and not spoken to spam it and end up banned.
And OP, *you* didn't buy gold right? Just thinking about another base to cover. ((I've only had one person I liked get banned for buying gold, and while I was sad he got banned, he deserved it. Because people like him causes the goldfarmers/spammers to stick around!))
I am sorry to read that you had this experience.
For my own part, I've been extremely impressed with LotRO's support. Many of you no doubt know how the April Fool's Day chicken quest was disabled shortly after it had been made available. Unfortunately, it left me with a quest in my log that couldn't be deleted.
Yesterday I happened to be thinking about it and submited a petition. In less than five minutes I received a GM response, and they had the quest deleted from my log a few minutes later. I was extremely impressed, and this was without doubt the best experience that I've ever had with any game's support.
By comparison, I had a couple issues in WoW two months ago that required GM response. Both of them took over six hours for a GM to actually get to me.
I also have just been banned until Aug 2036. It happened Sunday night after playing for a couple of hours (I was doing the Warg-slayer deed in the Angmar where you have to kill 350 wargs to get the Determination trait) I got dropped off the server with the message "you have been banned". Now unlike this other gentleman that was banned I don't have children. My wife and I play together on separate computers and separate accounts. I have not been emailed or contacted in any shape or form as to why the ban. I have also sent numerous emails to the support with no replies, tried to post a message on the lotro forums only to get a canned message that "disciplinary actions should never be disscussed" on their forums. It might also be easier to get a hold of the president of the United States of America on the telephone than their support/service agent. I too am at a loss as to why I have been banned. I never type or chat in-game (mostly because I'm so slow and slightly anti-social) My wife and I would never even think about buying (stupid) game gold for money.... so what gives? I've just read the EULA a couple of times thoroughly and I'm left here scratching my head. If its some sort of mistake or technical error on their part I can accept that but at least communicate with me please.
call them, see if that help. here is the info:
Speak live with one of our Account Management Representatives via telephone from 4:00 p.m. - 8:45 p.m. ET Monday - Friday by dialing:
781-407-4020.
This is exactly what I was thinking too. Especially that he later stated that he got the ban shortly after subscription renewal.
Did you check if your creditcard was actually charged OP?
I had a similar problem with LOTRO here in EU with Codemasters.
Last year I bought Mines of Moria through CM's Online Servers and had to pay through Click&Buy (as they had PayPal not up yet).
Order was approved, creditcard charged and expansion added to my account.
Then a day later I got an email from Click&Buy that my order was canceled and money refunded.
Now here comes the fun:
Codemasters saw it as a deliberate chargeback and thought I was scamming them > Account immediately banned!
Long story short: I have spend over 100 euros (more then $150) on phone bills calling with Click&Buy and Codemasters support to sort out all the mess.
In the end it was ofcourse all the fault of Click&Buy as they screwed up with my order and something went wrong within their system to cancel my order, without my concent!
So like the person I was quoting. Lifetime bans are usually only given when you cheat, exploit, but moreso when something goes wrong with payment and they suspect being scammed (creditcard chargebacks).
So I would check that too if I were you.
Nonetheless. Good luck!
I will add my comment to others suggesting you check and make sure that your subscription went through okay. I have had issues before were my card company suddenly blocked charges from online gaming sites without asking or notifying me. Some card companies have automatic "fraud protection" cut off filters that get a bit over-zealous.
I'd just add one thought for those wanting to throw Turbine under the bus. When you deal with customer service issues, all you're going to hear are the bad experiences. The vast majority of thier customers are most likely content either never having to contact CS or if they have, were satisfied with the experiecne. When something goes wrong, that's when you get the firestorm. People very rarely if ever will post in forums to chat up good service, it's not our nature and it's also what we expect.
Also, we have to accept the OP's account of all this at facec value, we have not heard anything from Turbine. Simply put, we only have one side of the story. Not casting stones to the OP, but quite frankly I don't know him or if he has an agenda.
So we accept the OP at face value and doing that, we must encourage the OP to find out what caused the ban and report back here if he wishes. The story is not complete at this time.
I wanted to give you all (and Caltone) an update because Turbine has finally contacted me by email:
Greetings Dave,
We have released your account as it was suspended in error. We deeply apologize for this mistake, and will be adding seven days of game time to your account as a result. We will also investigate further to determine how not to do this in the future. Thank you for your patience while we looked into this.
Thank you,
Turbine In-Game Support
I stated in my ealier post that if it was a technical error I would understand. That's exactly what it turned out to be....
God Bless
Right off the top of my head I'm thinking he could have shouted "Gold for sale" in global chat.
That would probably do it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That's one of the scary things about MMORPGs. You're basically completely dependant on the whims of the company running the game. If they make a mistake, you're out of luck, unless they catch it, like in this case.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
Actually if the company states in the ToS that they will send an email to anyone that violates the tos to explain why they are banned then they are required to send out that email. A ToS is a contract that has two ends, the people playing the game accept adhereing to it, and the company has to adhere to it as well. The Terms of service agreement are as always and important factor for all games, without these the developers hands are tied. However the ToS on LoTRo doesn't require a notice from turbine, if you really read it the ToS or EULA is written to screw players over. It basically says at anytime turbine can decide what you did is banable and ban you, then add it into the EULA later and everyone has to live up to it.
That's why ToS's and EULA's never hold up in court anymore.
More and more judges are getting fed up by companies setting up this kind of garbage they're calling ToS and EULA.