It's pretty late and I'm too tired to write a long elaborate post, but I want to throw something out there: What about a combination of player created and GM moderated quests. As a brief example: A player creates a quest and takes on the role of a GM/NPC. He then guides a group of players through the story (instance?). Afterwards, the participating players rate the experience and the creator gets GM XP (or whatever). By accumulating GM XP, that player would gain access to more tools, quest rewards, etc. to create more elaborate quests. This way master GM's would emerge from the community and people would be eager to join in quests created by those renowned players. However, the previous caveats still apply. Technically, this is of course not trivial. Favouritism could be combatted by laws of diminishing returns (the XP contribution by your rating of a particular GM would decrease with every quest), but is a factor. I've stated this in other discussions and it's something I'm curious about and fascinated by: Why has no AAA game been released that really harnesses the creative potential of the gaming community? There is some serious talent out there! Build a game and provide a toolset (!) that allows the community to expand the game itself, beyond building mods/addons etc.
I'm tired too but I wanted to comment on the text I underlined and coloured red. The first point I love, I don't know about limiting them tool wise(only as a last resort), rather try limiting the size or the time the quest could go for would be a better idea if possible.
As for the next sentence I highlighted and underlined. It has been done, not really in AAA titles but Saga of Ryzom was a fairly good game that made a toolset available to the community for such things. I lost interest and stopped playing just before they did this and don't really know how it went but I never heard anyone mention it working out well for the game and I've just assumed it wasn't enough to bolster the game because of the lack of buzz about it.
I think the main reason they don't "allow the community to expand the game itself" is because they have more faith in themselves being able to do it. Afterall AAA titles try and recruit the best people they can to make games in all areas including content like lore and quest and I suppose they have much more confidence in those people than in the community. Finally relying on the community to create good content in the form of quest or landscape or whatever just isn't a solid business model. Your talking about exploiting "unkowns". I like the idea of combining the two but still they'd probably feel they are safer investing in more professionals to flesh out the game rather than the tools to allow the community to do it and I cannot say I blame them.
That said I still love your idea, I just wouldn't expect a big time publisher or anyone capable of finacing a triple A title to put faith in the "unkown" just because its so unpredictable and risky.
As for the next sentence I highlighted and underlined. It has been done, not really in AAA titles but Saga of Ryzom was a fairly good game that made a toolset available to the community for such things. Utlima Online (Seer Program) and EVE Online (AURORA) has this as well. I think the main reason they don't "allow the community to expand the game itself" is because they have more faith in themselves being able to do it. It's not that they have more faith in themselves to run them, rather they have little faith in volunteers not abusing the tools or priveledge. Afterall AAA titles try and recruit the best people they can to make games in all areas including content like lore and quest and I suppose they have much more confidence in those people than in the community. Finally relying on the community to create good content in the form of quest or landscape or whatever just isn't a solid business model. Your talking about exploiting "unkowns". I like the idea of combining the two but still they'd probably feel they are safer investing in more professionals to flesh out the game rather than the tools to allow the community to do it and I cannot say I blame them. Since pretty much 90% of all user-created content is crap, I'd say you're right.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
i dissagree with the user created content is crap. I have seen in old days of swg, PAs do savenger hunts. Dress funky parties, crazy hat day, Fashion shows, weddings, interior design contests. Unusual ways to put in world objects to create other things.
Yesterday in lotr a kin put on a easter egg hunt that had a huge turn out. During summer kins put on fishing comeptions. Relay races. Horse races. When it was regionly advertised with prizes there was always big contests and big turnouts,
Recently there was a kin in lotr that sponsered a music consert in bree square that also had a huge turn out. This was all separate incidents of player created content that was more enjoyable instead of endless whack a mole.....
The question becomes can you put things in places in the world you are in? Can you use the social interactions within your various worlds to do this?
Getting more creative with factions is a good step, BUT how does this effect grouping? What if your friend has different relations than you with the NPCs? How far reaching and what implications could this have? Suddenly you've just made it impossible for people to group up without putting in artificial "temporary friendly" check boxes. So you either tell people, "sorry you're screwed" if you want to play your own way or you make those factions pointless by allowing your friends to temporarily join up to help you out. Then how would the rewards work? Can you exploit both factions by swapping groups with people who have the appropriate faction? Is there any point to exploiting both factions?
For those that played WOW, if you remember the factions in Desolace, you can't do all the quests. You had to pick one side to help or the other since as soon as you started helping one side the other went red. Never bothered to see if you could go back to do the other factions quests.
As far as random quests just happening when you're on others, MMOs have been doing this through items. You find a letter on a dead NPC that becomes a quest after you read it. So, its not too different from a random NPC hanging out in the area. I've seen that as well. There were plenty of quest givers scattered around in odd places in WOW that you only came across if you explored or went off the beaten path. Of course people would just look up on FAQs where everything "hidden" is, but what are you supposed to do;)
Phasing is probably the biggest thing that can happen to quests, since obviously 1000s of people constantly finishing and starting quests every minute can't have any meaingful effects on the environment for everyone. It just won't work unless everyone is working towards a common goal. We probably need more of that.
i dissagree with the user created content is crap. I have seen in old days of swg, PAs do savenger hunts. Dress funky parties, crazy hat day, Fashion shows, weddings, interior design contests. Unusual ways to put in world objects to create other things. Yesterday in lotr a kin put on a easter egg hunt that had a huge turn out. During summer kins put on fishing comeptions. Relay races. Horse races. When it was regionly advertised with prizes there was always big contests and big turnouts, Recently there was a kin in lotr that sponsered a music consert in bree square that also had a huge turn out. This was all separate incidents of player created content that was more enjoyable instead of endless whack a mole..... The question becomes can you put things in places in the world you are in? Can you use the social interactions within your various worlds to do this?
I hate the saying. Its not user created content is crap, it 90% of it is The problem is its true in so many cases, while you get brilliant user created content its normally accompanied by a lot more content that is far from brilliant. I haven't actually heard a developer say it, they're attitude wouldn't be very well received by the people who may buy there games but its a pretty well established saying and there is a reason why that's the case. I don't in anyway think it'd be accurate 90% but it paints the picture. However with the right tools and a system that was mentioned were the "user creator" would gain reputation if people enjoyed there content I think it could work just fine.
As for your question I think the people pushing these ideas were talking about being able to spawn things aswell as let the user create quest and there are toolsets that even let you create landscapes as additions to the world.
As long as the tools players can use can't exploit the system. If so, its just not worth it. The benefits don't outweight the negatives. If the content goes through a GM to test it first, then you might have something, but that could take a while. Maybe in a small game where the users generally have the communities best interest at heart it could work. Its always amazing how the few always ruin it for the many.
Anyone who's played games with mods, knows "90% is crap" is a perfectly acceptable figure=) Sad to say, but thats gaming. Everyone thinks they're a designer. Very few are actually up to the task.
I'd rather the quests not be forced. They can have all the lame quests they want, just make something else, like group grinding(pretty much as boring as the current quests, but at least you get to socialize with other people which makes it fun) be a viable alternative to questing, I'll be happy.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I don't understand why people want to be led by the nose through games in the first place. Do people really want their games to tell them where to go and what to do every step of the way? Why do we even need all of those stupid "quests".
If you want to go kill 10 boars just go out and kill the freakin' things. Do you really need to have some NPC tell you to do it? Let the boars drop their hides or tusks or whatever the hell they drop and you can take that crap back to a vendor to sell and there's your reward. Maybe once in a while a rare albino boar will spawn and you can rip it's enchanted white hide off of it's carcass and take it to any generic leather crafter NPC and he'll make a magic football or gloves or something out of it, and there's another reward that you might get if you're lucky.
But not just boars, any and every type of creature will occasionally spawn a special type that will have something that can be made into a variety of cool things. And now, suddenly, you realize that you're free. You no longer have to follow a predetermined path (go there, do that, then come back, now go over there, etc..). No, now you can go wherever the hell you feel like going, do whatever the hell you feel like doing, and it's your choice. And you won't be missing out on the special rewards and upgrades because those are scattered around the world anywhere and everywhere.
and collect quests, and delivery quests and all the other "crap" in mmo's today. Well I have yet to see a better idea come out of anyone's keyboard on these forums for a better quest. How about instead of bitching and moaning about how much you dislike all the bland mmo content that is offered today you try to come up with a better idea. If you hate all these quests then please...tell us what type of quest you would like to see. Hell...make up the entire quest and post it on here so we can read about how much better of a quest designer YOU are than the people who are currently creating them for our mmos that we play today. I cannot possibly think of a new idea for a quest. I have tried and put plenty of thought into what would be considered a "cool" new quest. They all boil down to the same exact thing...go here, kill this or collect this, bring it back to me. One of my ideas was to have a character who wanted help building his house. What would be the next thing to do in this situation? 1) collect the lumber, nails, hammer, etc. (however deep you wanted to make gathering all this crap up to be) 2) bring all those items back to the character 3) turn them in, receive xp / loot / whatever you think is cool Basically it turned into a collect / delivery quest. It's not like your going to actually BUILD the house. You will not sit at your computer to "hammer" each nail in and help this character actually build his house. That would get way old and take an extremely long time.
I'm not exactly sure what you people seem to want, and I don't think the game developers know either because you cannot seem to focus your energies on new ideas; however, you are all pretty much experts in the bitching and moaning skill set. I'm done ranting...try being productive and help the devs learn what you want instead of bitching about what they put out.
The problem is not what you are doing. All tasks will probably break down to some form of kill x, or collect x, if you have no human game master.
For example, you cannot negotiate a treaty between warring factions. How are you going to negotiate with a scripted dialog?
The problem is not WHAT you are doing, kill x or collect x, the problem is that NOTHING CHANGES.
Ok, I killed X. Now what? Now nothing, because X simply respawns so the next person can kill X.
Save the Princess by killing the evil kidnappers. But the Princess is NOT saved, becasue she is always kidnapped so the next person can save the Princess.
And, it doesn't help, at least not for me if you make an illusion that the Princess is saved. Taht just makes a crazy mixed up world, where I see the Princess saved, and you see the Princess needing to be rescued, depending on who has done the quest. What, are we living in parallel universes or something? THe princess needs to be saved! No dude, she's safe, I just saved her! No, I can see the King asking for help to rescue her! No, I see the King thanking me for saving her! That's crap.
So it's not KILL X, or COLLECT X, that makes it boring. Its' that nothign happens if you KILL X. Change that, and the quests get very, very interesting.
The problem with quests in modern MMOs is that they are a reflection of society, meaning they offer instant gratification.....TO me the best quests take a long time and have good rewards, kinda like epic quests did in EQ back in the old days........Games like LoTRO and EQ2 have so many quests that they water down the game......I never even bothered to read any of them.......Quests should be few and far between but very meaningful and with good rewards.....They should take a long time to achieve.
The problem with quests in modern MMOs is that they are a reflection of society, meaning they offer instant gratification.....TO me the best quests take a long time and have good rewards, kinda like epic quests did in EQ back in the old days........Games like LoTRO and EQ2 have so many quests that they water down the game......I never even bothered to read any of them.......Quests should be few and far between but very meaningful and with good rewards.....They should take a long time to achieve.
How do you make a quest "meaningful" if nothing in the game world changes? You think it's meaningful just because you get a great reward?
The problem with kill quests is that they are cover for a critical weakness in MMO game design. In this case, the weakness is the lack of a dynamic between the player and his/her environment. Consider the everyday accident of breaking a drinking glass by bumping it off a table to have it shatter onto the floor below. And then consider that the glass cannot be magically reconstituted under the everyday world's physical constraints (informational entropy being one of them).
Now, maybe it seems insane from your own perspective to consider that having the same irreversible quality to game events in MMOs, but consider that just because one event cannot occur again that the same kind of event can still occur regardless. Meaning, X person slays Y monster, but that maybe you too can slay a monster of similar ill reputation. Maybe it won't include saving a town, a princess. Maybe it won't include becoming king, knighted, or given a reward. But, it still could happen, depending on the constraints of the game world.
That's what needs to be considered, and addressed, when considering the kill quest concept. Hell, it needs to be considered and addressed, when considering the nature of mudflation! In any case, the solution is easy to identify, implementation, on the other hand, isn't as easy.
You have got be kidding me. OP your thread fails on epic porportions.
It is not a mystery on how to make a good quest, they were making great quests in classic EQ.
The mystery is "why has no developer done so since then"?
Here is an example of an awesome classic EQ quest. It's hard to appreciate how well thought out and fun this quest was unless you actually solved it, but here it is:
This is the quest to obtain the Langseax or the Langseax of the Wolves. You need a very good faction to complete this quest (amiable at least).
Complete Version: Go to Renth McLanis in the tavern across from Mac's Kilts. Ask him "What dangerous matter?". He tells you of a crime. Agree to hunt the murderer. Renth then sends you to see Dok in Dok's Cigars. Find out all you can about the crime. He tells you to go see the leader of Clan McMannus. This is the fishing village located in West Karanas. Speak to the leader. Then speak to Ulrich McMannus and he tells you Frostbite can track prey if he has a piece of sweaty clothing. Return to Dok and ask him "Where is the sweaty shirt?". He then tells you he sold it to Tundra Jack. Find Tundra Jack on the tundra of Everfrost. He will tell you that Iceberg is using it for a collar and that you can distract Iceberg with his favorite meal, Lion Delight. Go back to Halas and speak to Teria O' Danos. Do the lion meat quest (you get coin and faction as well as the Lion Delight). Once you have Lion Delight, be sure to bury it lower in your container then your normal food to prevent it being eaten by you. Take the Lion Delight to Iceberg and receive the shirt (NO DROP, LORE ITEM) and faction adjustment. Now run to the village and give the shirt to Frostbite. (NOTE: Frostbite will wait for the murderer to spawn before he takes off. He walks pretty fast so I wouls strongly suggest that you have Spirit of Wolf on you. It also helps to have a party member along that can track because I lost sight of Frostbite many times and have had to start over. Also, Frostbite likes to fight things along the way. Help him out. Be very careful not to target Frostbite by accident!) Frostbite will lead you right to the criminal. The murderer will be either Paglan or Basil. Paglan is tougher to kill and probably in his low to mid 20's, Basil is around level 20. Kill whomever the dog leads you to, hope he drops a Barbarian head and then return to Halas with the head. Give the head to Renth for faction, coin, and of course, the Langseax (if you have Basil's head) or the Langseax of the Wolves (if it is Paglan's head). I am not sure what triggers which criminal you get or even if you can just kill both and get both heads, but it seems that you wil normally get Basil.
Here is a short version: Run to village, and receive the lion meat. Run to Halas, turn in meat to Teria and get Lion Delight, faction, exp. and coin. Run to Iceberg, give Lion Delight, receive shirt, faction, exp. Run to Frosbite, give shirt, gain exp. Kill the criminal. Return head for faction, coin, exp and Langseax. One thing to keep in mind is that your faction drops a good deal with the thieves guild with this quest, and the banker in Halas is a thief, making it possible that doint this quest can cause you to get kos if you try to use the bank. Also, you need a high faction with the Wolves of the North to finish the quest.
The faction changes are as follows: When you complete the lion meat quest: Shaman of Justice (+1), Wolves of the North (+1) Merchants of Halas (+1), Rogues of the White Rose (-1); When you trick Iceberg and get the Sweaty Shirt: Shaman of Justice (+1), Wolves of the North (+1), Merchants of Halas (+1), Steel Warriors (+1), Rogues of the White Rose (-1); When you kill Paglan or Basil: Rogues of the White Rose (-1); When you turn in Paglan's or Basil's head for your reward: Shaman of Justice (-1), Wolves of the North (+1), Merchants of Halas (-1), Rogues of the White Rose (+1); Faction adjustments overall: Shaman of Justice (+1), Wolves of the North (+3), Merchants of Halas (+1), Steel Warriors (+1), Rogues of the White Rose (-2).
Be warned that the Halas Banker is part of the Rogues of the White Rose, so you may lose banking privileges if you lose too much of that faction.
You have got be kidding me. OP your thread fails on epic porportions. It is not a mystery on how to make a good quest, they were making great quests in classic EQ. The mystery is "why has no developer done so since then"? Here is an example of an awesome classic EQ quest. It's hard to appreciate how well thought out and fun this quest was unless you actually solved it, but here it is: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is the quest to obtain the Langseax or the Langseax of the Wolves. You need a very good faction to complete this quest (amiable at least).
So you think me trying to persuade people to provide explanations and suggestions of how to do quests to their liking is "failing on epic proportions?" You sir seem to not have gotten the point. I AM NOT the one bitching about the quests. I enjoy quests. I would like to see more quests like Everquest's type of quest. I loved EQ and it is definitely my favorite MMO to date. The point of my thread was to push people in a different direction and have ideas about how to improve the quests. I was not bitching about quests. Next time please do not hear(read) what you want to hear(read).
You have got be kidding me. OP your thread fails on epic porportion
Jeebus! I wish people would stop saying that! "epic fail"... Apart from the fact that the discussions in this thread prove that the OP has made some valid points and it is meant as more of a brain-storming exercise, using this sort verbiage brandmarks the poster in question as someone I can not take seriously anymore. Might as well write "your thret suXXors, epick phail !!!11...lulz etc"
You have got be kidding me. OP your thread fails on epic porportion
Jeebus! I wish people would stop saying that! "epic fail"... Apart from the fact that the discussions in this thread prove that the OP has made some valid points and it is meant as more of a brain-storming exercise, using this sort verbiage brandmarks the poster in question as someone I can not take seriously anymore. Might as well write "your thret suXXors, epick phail !!!11...lulz etc"
I agree completely. The "Epic Fail" that everyone is throwing around today is beyond annoying at this point. I would rather someone just say that they disagree with me and sound semi-intelligent as opposed to "epic failzorz i am the thirteenthirtyseven haxxorx of the world at every video game" BS that comes out of a lot of peoples mouthes. Please quit being disruptive to others and start being helpful...it will get you farther / further (not sure which applies here but i guess they both could) in life and in getting your way as opposed to the elitist attitude that so many people throw around these days.
Great ideas on here also guys. Keep them coming. I love coming home to read them and frequently check on this post.
You know what would be really cool for quests? Mabey a Adventure quest (recon,Scout). Or bettter yet ill say it yet agian DND quests. GO do something that will ethier do 2 things 1. Get out alive or 2. Die. For a quest lets throw your toon in a dungen full of spike traps and what not. A monster or 2 yes. The point of the quest is...Well guess what you have to read what the NPC is telling you. Like make the npc give a combination of sort. Make the players read. Make them think. Hell for once make them qustion there actions befor they scream running down the hall swinging a sword like a hyper 5 year old. I want a quest system that tests my Wits. Not go kill X amount or go collect X amount. Hell even DDO screwed the quest systems up. I understand that alot of players will think its stupid but iam speaking for the players who like to think. Not the ones that go around calling players newb and screaming pwn every 5 mins.
Oh, and other games should learn from AoC's example in one respect, the ability to choose whether you want to quest in a solo or group based zone, rather than the current MMOG method of just throwing in a few group quests into zones which are essentially purely soloable. I find this very annoying; if I'm soloing then I run into quests that I can't complete, and if I'm grouping then the solo quests are all incredibly trivial. AoC solved both those problems, and I'd like to see the same incorporated into WoW (and new emergent games) using the phasing technology.
Oh, and other games should learn from AoC's example in one respect, the ability to choose whether you want to quest in a solo or group based zone, rather than the current MMOG method of just throwing in a few group quests into zones which are essentially purely soloable. I find this very annoying; if I'm soloing then I run into quests that I can't complete, and if I'm grouping then the solo quests are all incredibly trivial. AoC solved both those problems, and I'd like to see the same incorporated into WoW (and new emergent games) using the phasing technology.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm curious.
When you enter a zone, you can choose between Normal or Epic. Epic is harder mobs with better drops - a group based zone.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Getting more creative with factions is a good step, BUT how does this effect grouping? What if your friend has different relations than you with the NPCs? How far reaching and what implications could this have? Suddenly you've just made it impossible for people to group up without putting in artificial "temporary friendly" check boxes. So you either tell people, "sorry you're screwed" if you want to play your own way or you make those factions pointless by allowing your friends to temporarily join up to help you out. Then how would the rewards work? Can you exploit both factions by swapping groups with people who have the appropriate faction? Is there any point to exploiting both factions? For those that played WOW, if you remember the factions in Desolace, you can't do all the quests. You had to pick one side to help or the other since as soon as you started helping one side the other went red. Never bothered to see if you could go back to do the other factions quests. As far as random quests just happening when you're on others, MMOs have been doing this through items. You find a letter on a dead NPC that becomes a quest after you read it. So, its not too different from a random NPC hanging out in the area. I've seen that as well. There were plenty of quest givers scattered around in odd places in WOW that you only came across if you explored or went off the beaten path. Of course people would just look up on FAQs where everything "hidden" is, but what are you supposed to do;) Phasing is probably the biggest thing that can happen to quests, since obviously 1000s of people constantly finishing and starting quests every minute can't have any meaingful effects on the environment for everyone. It just won't work unless everyone is working towards a common goal. We probably need more of that.
I am going to state a couple things here to clarify this.
First , throw away the current design model of ever MMO out there and don't try to make comparisons because it is going to get hard to understand. Whren is going to be a virtual world not a MMO. Second, Whren is going to be near 3 million square miles of exploration area and it will probably have vast areas of nothingness save a few monsters. This statement will be made more clear later here.
Now on to the discussion at hand.
If you are in the same faction grouping up is non issue. A neutral can group with anyone of either faction but if they partake in PvP the neutral PC gains and looses faction for the side they are grouped with. This is the only way a neutral can gain or loose faction BTW (PvP). If they only group with one side eventually they become aligned critically with that side and loose their standing as neutral. Obviously they were meant to be PvP. Again I stress consequences of action. If they are opposite faction, the two PCs will have to decide who switches sides and perform PvP accordingly. You can have friends across factions but you can never share a guild or a quest but you can group. You can hop factions too if you so desire but you will never go back to PvE.
After level 10 epic which you already determined the outcome of neutral, critical evil or critical good f ation is gained and lost in PvP period. After that NPCs view you by your attitude.
If a PC decides to piss off NPCs he is cutting off is own nose. I don't think you see where this is going but have you ever heard of guilt by association? If anyone in your group has a low standing, the NPC is probably not going to talk to anyone. But there is good news here. If a PC have a bad attitude (the hidden stat) he can find NPCs that like them more. Of course don't bring mister goody two shoes because you run into the opposite problem. Do you understand now?
After todays let down on getting major financial backing again, I am taking Whren out of the mainstream anyway. It will get done when it gets done and it will be a small niche game for the real role player. Since I am the God that made the world of Whren I will do as I please with it. If anyone wants to change the route I am taking in design and development, PAY me to make that change.! If I get 2 subs I'll call it a critical success because I can play the game free.
Its not my job to come up with new ways of doing quest and I'll continue to complain about things I don't like regardless of if I have a better way. If someone sells me something that I think taste like crap I'll express my dislike with the product and won't by it again even if I cannot do a better job with the ingredients. In regards to this specific issue, I say don't make a game evolve around quest, they aren't fun.
what product? what are you talking sbout, are you ognna sit there and tell me you 'buy' things in game? or wait.. do you think because you play a game a lot that your in some way doing 'something'? people like you thinking you can use educated busness terms (not that you really used a lot of them) and try to slander something, which quite frankly- complaints like your could be applied to dish washer detergent for all it matter. anywya, i cant believe im replying to you anyway, your just an empty shell anyway.
and collect quests, and delivery quests and all the other "crap" in mmo's today. Well I have yet to see a better idea come out of anyone's keyboard on these forums for a better quest. How about instead of bitching and moaning about how much you dislike all the bland mmo content that is offered today you try to come up with a better idea. If you hate all these quests then please...tell us what type of quest you would like to see. Hell...make up the entire quest and post it on here so we can read about how much better of a quest designer YOU are than the people who are currently creating them for our mmos that we play today. I cannot possibly think of a new idea for a quest. I have tried and put plenty of thought into what would be considered a "cool" new quest. They all boil down to the same exact thing...go here, kill this or collect this, bring it back to me. One of my ideas was to have a character who wanted help building his house. What would be the next thing to do in this situation? 1) collect the lumber, nails, hammer, etc. (however deep you wanted to make gathering all this crap up to be) 2) bring all those items back to the character 3) turn them in, receive xp / loot / whatever you think is cool Basically it turned into a collect / delivery quest. It's not like your going to actually BUILD the house. You will not sit at your computer to "hammer" each nail in and help this character actually build his house. That would get way old and take an extremely long time.
I'm not exactly sure what you people seem to want, and I don't think the game developers know either because you cannot seem to focus your energies on new ideas; however, you are all pretty much experts in the bitching and moaning skill set. I'm done ranting...try being productive and help the devs learn what you want instead of bitching about what they put out.
Check original Runequest quests. Best in the whole MMO market.
Man I don't normally read through the longer threads because I find usually I would have little to contribute by the end, but I'm glad I read this one. I really have to agree with what I see as the overwhelming direction of moving toward meaningful quests.
I'm a fan of the paid GM idea as well. Not on a 100% content driver, but as a tweaker and behind the scenes inhabitor of random mobs here and there. Bringing the unexpected in here and there so players never expect it, but come to appreciate it. More than events, but way less than table top nurturing. And as far as fiscal feasibility goes, guess what? They actually pay people to write those thousands of quests in game. Look at how many people they employ at a theme park. the ratio of employee to daily patron is like 1 employee for every 3 or 4 people depending on the season (look into it). Now $4500 a month in daily passes to $15 translates to a 1:300 cost conversion. Now thats 900-1200 players to oversee per GM by the same staffing standard as a theme park that has MASSIVE overhead in the REAL world. For those that follow, my point is that I think it's feasible to consider.
I also agree with less quests, more meaning. Dynamics in the world is an eventual, not just a maybe for mmo's I think. And the goal system needs a major overhaul. Anyone here ever get quest overload? lol my bro and I talk about it every time we get to a new quest hub in some game, run around grabing all the quests, then feel overwhelmed and don't want to do any of them, because its like some big chore to run around finishing crap we dont bother reading because it's pointless. I really want the freedom I felt when I never had a quest log. Give me something in the back of my mind that I slowly build toward, or dream of pursuing one day, something big, and It will be better than a thousand well written "quests".
UO,AC1&2,EQ1&2,DAOC,SB,SWG,FFXI, Horizons,EvE,E&B,AO,WoW,VG, Lineage,GW,TR,LotR,AoC,CoH,DDO a myriad of FtP...and still looking...
Oh, and other games should learn from AoC's example in one respect, the ability to choose whether you want to quest in a solo or group based zone, rather than the current MMOG method of just throwing in a few group quests into zones which are essentially purely soloable. I find this very annoying; if I'm soloing then I run into quests that I can't complete, and if I'm grouping then the solo quests are all incredibly trivial. AoC solved both those problems, and I'd like to see the same incorporated into WoW (and new emergent games) using the phasing technology.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm curious.
When you enter a zone, you can choose between Normal or Epic. Epic is harder mobs with better drops - a group based zone.
The day/night cycle in AOC was horrible. Talk about removing any bit of immersion that game was attempting to acheive. Besides, the quests even though you were in essentially a single player game still weren't as good as WOWs. I was paying a monthly fee to play a single player RPG that wasn't as good as most single player RPGs...NICE job Funcom. And they wonder why they lost 90% of their players.
Phasing tech is far more effective than just removing yourself from the world entirely.
I'm a little dubious about the possibility of having as many paid live GMs to run quests or stage events. Especially, as the content would be repeatable for different players, no? I wouldn't want to be the GM who has to run "Escape from the Dark Tower" (tm) 12 times every day.
If the interaction between GMs (other players OR paid) is this close, then quests are one-off occurrances and the term 'quest' in common MMORPG parlance doesn't really fit anymore. It's more akin to an 'adventure' or 'storyline' like the one you have during a pen-and-paper session.
However, we all agree that quests need to be meaningful. One aspect of this is the effect on the game world - i.e. there usually isn't any. I'm not sure if it is possible to have individual player's actions have that much of an impact, but I can see this being used to actually promote the server/faction/region storyline.
I know this has been done in the past. I've seen it in AO, when town were attacked by hordes of (GM spawned) monsters, or in WoW with the opening of the gates to AQ. In the latter example there was (to my knowledge) no GM involvement, but it was a player 'quest' that changed the game world. However, these events were to one-dimensional. In WoW's case it often happened with only a small percentage of the server being able to witness or take part in.
Generally, though, I could see this mechanic used to tell a (dynamic!) story in-game. For example: War rages and one faction of NPCs is making a push to claim a particular region. They are attacking towns (no safe zone), ambush caravans (trade impaired), build fortifications and finally besiege the regions capitol. Needless to say, this alone provides a nice backstory for a number of the more traditional quests (scout/fedex/kill/collect/etc.). Depending on player participation and the outcome of individual battles and (one-off, GM led) missions the region either changes hands and becomes bandit territory or the players prevail and save their towns and NPCs. Both options are possible and if there are multiple servers I would expect each of them to be in a different state - some where the region was lost and some where it was successfully defended.
Now, I'm a firm believer in the power of identification with your team/guild/character/server. I think players would see themselves much more a part of their particular world, they have a stake in and where they have been in the trenches with one another to battle the forces of evil (or good). I think it would be much more exciting to log in each day, if you don't quite know what to expect. Has the enemy taken the peninsula? Have our neighbors responded to our cry for help? What missions will be need to be carried out today and is my guild going to be a part of it? Ask not what your MMORPG can do for you, ask what you can do for your MMORPG!
These things should not just be happening every other month, but every day or week. Tell the story! This is why we started playing RPGs in the first place.
Comments
I'm tired too but I wanted to comment on the text I underlined and coloured red. The first point I love, I don't know about limiting them tool wise(only as a last resort), rather try limiting the size or the time the quest could go for would be a better idea if possible.
As for the next sentence I highlighted and underlined. It has been done, not really in AAA titles but Saga of Ryzom was a fairly good game that made a toolset available to the community for such things. I lost interest and stopped playing just before they did this and don't really know how it went but I never heard anyone mention it working out well for the game and I've just assumed it wasn't enough to bolster the game because of the lack of buzz about it.
I think the main reason they don't "allow the community to expand the game itself" is because they have more faith in themselves being able to do it. Afterall AAA titles try and recruit the best people they can to make games in all areas including content like lore and quest and I suppose they have much more confidence in those people than in the community. Finally relying on the community to create good content in the form of quest or landscape or whatever just isn't a solid business model. Your talking about exploiting "unkowns". I like the idea of combining the two but still they'd probably feel they are safer investing in more professionals to flesh out the game rather than the tools to allow the community to do it and I cannot say I blame them.
That said I still love your idea, I just wouldn't expect a big time publisher or anyone capable of finacing a triple A title to put faith in the "unkown" just because its so unpredictable and risky.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
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i dissagree with the user created content is crap. I have seen in old days of swg, PAs do savenger hunts. Dress funky parties, crazy hat day, Fashion shows, weddings, interior design contests. Unusual ways to put in world objects to create other things.
Yesterday in lotr a kin put on a easter egg hunt that had a huge turn out. During summer kins put on fishing comeptions. Relay races. Horse races. When it was regionly advertised with prizes there was always big contests and big turnouts,
Recently there was a kin in lotr that sponsered a music consert in bree square that also had a huge turn out. This was all separate incidents of player created content that was more enjoyable instead of endless whack a mole.....
The question becomes can you put things in places in the world you are in? Can you use the social interactions within your various worlds to do this?
Getting more creative with factions is a good step, BUT how does this effect grouping? What if your friend has different relations than you with the NPCs? How far reaching and what implications could this have? Suddenly you've just made it impossible for people to group up without putting in artificial "temporary friendly" check boxes. So you either tell people, "sorry you're screwed" if you want to play your own way or you make those factions pointless by allowing your friends to temporarily join up to help you out. Then how would the rewards work? Can you exploit both factions by swapping groups with people who have the appropriate faction? Is there any point to exploiting both factions?
For those that played WOW, if you remember the factions in Desolace, you can't do all the quests. You had to pick one side to help or the other since as soon as you started helping one side the other went red. Never bothered to see if you could go back to do the other factions quests.
As far as random quests just happening when you're on others, MMOs have been doing this through items. You find a letter on a dead NPC that becomes a quest after you read it. So, its not too different from a random NPC hanging out in the area. I've seen that as well. There were plenty of quest givers scattered around in odd places in WOW that you only came across if you explored or went off the beaten path. Of course people would just look up on FAQs where everything "hidden" is, but what are you supposed to do;)
Phasing is probably the biggest thing that can happen to quests, since obviously 1000s of people constantly finishing and starting quests every minute can't have any meaingful effects on the environment for everyone. It just won't work unless everyone is working towards a common goal. We probably need more of that.
I hate the saying. Its not user created content is crap, it 90% of it is
The problem is its true in so many cases, while you get brilliant user created content its normally accompanied by a lot more content that is far from brilliant. I haven't actually heard a developer say it, they're attitude wouldn't be very well received by the people who may buy there games 
but its a pretty well established saying and there is a reason why that's the case. I don't in anyway think it'd be accurate 90% but it paints the picture. However with the right tools and a system that was mentioned were the "user creator" would gain reputation if people enjoyed there content I think it could work just fine.
As for your question I think the people pushing these ideas were talking about being able to spawn things aswell as let the user create quest and there are toolsets that even let you create landscapes as additions to the world.
As long as the tools players can use can't exploit the system. If so, its just not worth it. The benefits don't outweight the negatives. If the content goes through a GM to test it first, then you might have something, but that could take a while. Maybe in a small game where the users generally have the communities best interest at heart it could work. Its always amazing how the few always ruin it for the many.
Anyone who's played games with mods, knows "90% is crap" is a perfectly acceptable figure=) Sad to say, but thats gaming. Everyone thinks they're a designer. Very few are actually up to the task.
I'd rather the quests not be forced. They can have all the lame quests they want, just make something else, like group grinding(pretty much as boring as the current quests, but at least you get to socialize with other people which makes it fun) be a viable alternative to questing, I'll be happy.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I don't understand why people want to be led by the nose through games in the first place. Do people really want their games to tell them where to go and what to do every step of the way? Why do we even need all of those stupid "quests".
If you want to go kill 10 boars just go out and kill the freakin' things. Do you really need to have some NPC tell you to do it? Let the boars drop their hides or tusks or whatever the hell they drop and you can take that crap back to a vendor to sell and there's your reward. Maybe once in a while a rare albino boar will spawn and you can rip it's enchanted white hide off of it's carcass and take it to any generic leather crafter NPC and he'll make a magic football or gloves or something out of it, and there's another reward that you might get if you're lucky.
But not just boars, any and every type of creature will occasionally spawn a special type that will have something that can be made into a variety of cool things. And now, suddenly, you realize that you're free. You no longer have to follow a predetermined path (go there, do that, then come back, now go over there, etc..). No, now you can go wherever the hell you feel like going, do whatever the hell you feel like doing, and it's your choice. And you won't be missing out on the special rewards and upgrades because those are scattered around the world anywhere and everywhere.
The problem is not what you are doing. All tasks will probably break down to some form of kill x, or collect x, if you have no human game master.
For example, you cannot negotiate a treaty between warring factions. How are you going to negotiate with a scripted dialog?
The problem is not WHAT you are doing, kill x or collect x, the problem is that NOTHING CHANGES.
Ok, I killed X. Now what? Now nothing, because X simply respawns so the next person can kill X.
Save the Princess by killing the evil kidnappers. But the Princess is NOT saved, becasue she is always kidnapped so the next person can save the Princess.
And, it doesn't help, at least not for me if you make an illusion that the Princess is saved. Taht just makes a crazy mixed up world, where I see the Princess saved, and you see the Princess needing to be rescued, depending on who has done the quest. What, are we living in parallel universes or something? THe princess needs to be saved! No dude, she's safe, I just saved her! No, I can see the King asking for help to rescue her! No, I see the King thanking me for saving her! That's crap.
So it's not KILL X, or COLLECT X, that makes it boring. Its' that nothign happens if you KILL X. Change that, and the quests get very, very interesting.
The problem with quests in modern MMOs is that they are a reflection of society, meaning they offer instant gratification.....TO me the best quests take a long time and have good rewards, kinda like epic quests did in EQ back in the old days........Games like LoTRO and EQ2 have so many quests that they water down the game......I never even bothered to read any of them.......Quests should be few and far between but very meaningful and with good rewards.....They should take a long time to achieve.
How do you make a quest "meaningful" if nothing in the game world changes? You think it's meaningful just because you get a great reward?
The problem with kill quests is that they are cover for a critical weakness in MMO game design. In this case, the weakness is the lack of a dynamic between the player and his/her environment. Consider the everyday accident of breaking a drinking glass by bumping it off a table to have it shatter onto the floor below. And then consider that the glass cannot be magically reconstituted under the everyday world's physical constraints (informational entropy being one of them).
Now, maybe it seems insane from your own perspective to consider that having the same irreversible quality to game events in MMOs, but consider that just because one event cannot occur again that the same kind of event can still occur regardless. Meaning, X person slays Y monster, but that maybe you too can slay a monster of similar ill reputation. Maybe it won't include saving a town, a princess. Maybe it won't include becoming king, knighted, or given a reward. But, it still could happen, depending on the constraints of the game world.
That's what needs to be considered, and addressed, when considering the kill quest concept. Hell, it needs to be considered and addressed, when considering the nature of mudflation! In any case, the solution is easy to identify, implementation, on the other hand, isn't as easy.
You have got be kidding me. OP your thread fails on epic porportions.
It is not a mystery on how to make a good quest, they were making great quests in classic EQ.
The mystery is "why has no developer done so since then"?
Here is an example of an awesome classic EQ quest. It's hard to appreciate how well thought out and fun this quest was unless you actually solved it, but here it is:
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This is the quest to obtain the Langseax or the Langseax of the Wolves. You need a very good faction to complete this quest (amiable at least).
Complete Version: Go to Renth McLanis in the tavern across from Mac's Kilts. Ask him "What dangerous matter?". He tells you of a crime. Agree to hunt the murderer. Renth then sends you to see Dok in Dok's Cigars. Find out all you can about the crime. He tells you to go see the leader of Clan McMannus. This is the fishing village located in West Karanas. Speak to the leader. Then speak to Ulrich McMannus and he tells you Frostbite can track prey if he has a piece of sweaty clothing. Return to Dok and ask him "Where is the sweaty shirt?". He then tells you he sold it to Tundra Jack. Find Tundra Jack on the tundra of Everfrost. He will tell you that Iceberg is using it for a collar and that you can distract Iceberg with his favorite meal, Lion Delight. Go back to Halas and speak to Teria O' Danos. Do the lion meat quest (you get coin and faction as well as the Lion Delight). Once you have Lion Delight, be sure to bury it lower in your container then your normal food to prevent it being eaten by you. Take the Lion Delight to Iceberg and receive the shirt (NO DROP, LORE ITEM) and faction adjustment. Now run to the village and give the shirt to Frostbite. (NOTE: Frostbite will wait for the murderer to spawn before he takes off. He walks pretty fast so I wouls strongly suggest that you have Spirit of Wolf on you. It also helps to have a party member along that can track because I lost sight of Frostbite many times and have had to start over. Also, Frostbite likes to fight things along the way. Help him out. Be very careful not to target Frostbite by accident!) Frostbite will lead you right to the criminal. The murderer will be either Paglan or Basil. Paglan is tougher to kill and probably in his low to mid 20's, Basil is around level 20. Kill whomever the dog leads you to, hope he drops a Barbarian head and then return to Halas with the head. Give the head to Renth for faction, coin, and of course, the Langseax (if you have Basil's head) or the Langseax of the Wolves (if it is Paglan's head). I am not sure what triggers which criminal you get or even if you can just kill both and get both heads, but it seems that you wil normally get Basil.
Here is a short version: Run to village, and receive the lion meat. Run to Halas, turn in meat to Teria and get Lion Delight, faction, exp. and coin. Run to Iceberg, give Lion Delight, receive shirt, faction, exp. Run to Frosbite, give shirt, gain exp. Kill the criminal. Return head for faction, coin, exp and Langseax. One thing to keep in mind is that your faction drops a good deal with the thieves guild with this quest, and the banker in Halas is a thief, making it possible that doint this quest can cause you to get kos if you try to use the bank. Also, you need a high faction with the Wolves of the North to finish the quest.
The faction changes are as follows: When you complete the lion meat quest: Shaman of Justice (+1), Wolves of the North (+1) Merchants of Halas (+1), Rogues of the White Rose (-1); When you trick Iceberg and get the Sweaty Shirt: Shaman of Justice (+1), Wolves of the North (+1), Merchants of Halas (+1), Steel Warriors (+1), Rogues of the White Rose (-1); When you kill Paglan or Basil: Rogues of the White Rose (-1); When you turn in Paglan's or Basil's head for your reward: Shaman of Justice (-1), Wolves of the North (+1), Merchants of Halas (-1), Rogues of the White Rose (+1); Faction adjustments overall: Shaman of Justice (+1), Wolves of the North (+3), Merchants of Halas (+1), Steel Warriors (+1), Rogues of the White Rose (-2).
Be warned that the Halas Banker is part of the Rogues of the White Rose, so you may lose banking privileges if you lose too much of that faction.
So you think me trying to persuade people to provide explanations and suggestions of how to do quests to their liking is "failing on epic proportions?" You sir seem to not have gotten the point. I AM NOT the one bitching about the quests. I enjoy quests. I would like to see more quests like Everquest's type of quest. I loved EQ and it is definitely my favorite MMO to date. The point of my thread was to push people in a different direction and have ideas about how to improve the quests. I was not bitching about quests. Next time please do not hear(read) what you want to hear(read).
Jeebus! I wish people would stop saying that! "epic fail"... Apart from the fact that the discussions in this thread prove that the OP has made some valid points and it is meant as more of a brain-storming exercise, using this sort verbiage brandmarks the poster in question as someone I can not take seriously anymore. Might as well write "your thret suXXors, epick phail !!!11...lulz etc"
Jeebus! I wish people would stop saying that! "epic fail"... Apart from the fact that the discussions in this thread prove that the OP has made some valid points and it is meant as more of a brain-storming exercise, using this sort verbiage brandmarks the poster in question as someone I can not take seriously anymore. Might as well write "your thret suXXors, epick phail !!!11...lulz etc"
I agree completely. The "Epic Fail" that everyone is throwing around today is beyond annoying at this point. I would rather someone just say that they disagree with me and sound semi-intelligent as opposed to "epic failzorz i am the thirteenthirtyseven haxxorx of the world at every video game" BS that comes out of a lot of peoples mouthes. Please quit being disruptive to others and start being helpful...it will get you farther / further (not sure which applies here but i guess they both could) in life and in getting your way as opposed to the elitist attitude that so many people throw around these days.
Great ideas on here also guys. Keep them coming. I love coming home to read them and frequently check on this post.
You know what would be really cool for quests? Mabey a Adventure quest (recon,Scout). Or bettter yet ill say it yet agian DND quests. GO do something that will ethier do 2 things 1. Get out alive or 2. Die. For a quest lets throw your toon in a dungen full of spike traps and what not. A monster or 2 yes. The point of the quest is...Well guess what you have to read what the NPC is telling you. Like make the npc give a combination of sort. Make the players read. Make them think. Hell for once make them qustion there actions befor they scream running down the hall swinging a sword like a hyper 5 year old. I want a quest system that tests my Wits. Not go kill X amount or go collect X amount. Hell even DDO screwed the quest systems up. I understand that alot of players will think its stupid but iam speaking for the players who like to think. Not the ones that go around calling players newb and screaming pwn every 5 mins.
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Can you elaborate on this? I'm curious.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm curious.
When you enter a zone, you can choose between Normal or Epic. Epic is harder mobs with better drops - a group based zone.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
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I am going to state a couple things here to clarify this.
First , throw away the current design model of ever MMO out there and don't try to make comparisons because it is going to get hard to understand. Whren is going to be a virtual world not a MMO. Second, Whren is going to be near 3 million square miles of exploration area and it will probably have vast areas of nothingness save a few monsters. This statement will be made more clear later here.
Now on to the discussion at hand.
If you are in the same faction grouping up is non issue. A neutral can group with anyone of either faction but if they partake in PvP the neutral PC gains and looses faction for the side they are grouped with. This is the only way a neutral can gain or loose faction BTW (PvP). If they only group with one side eventually they become aligned critically with that side and loose their standing as neutral. Obviously they were meant to be PvP. Again I stress consequences of action. If they are opposite faction, the two PCs will have to decide who switches sides and perform PvP accordingly. You can have friends across factions but you can never share a guild or a quest but you can group. You can hop factions too if you so desire but you will never go back to PvE.
After level 10 epic which you already determined the outcome of neutral, critical evil or critical good f ation is gained and lost in PvP period. After that NPCs view you by your attitude.
If a PC decides to piss off NPCs he is cutting off is own nose. I don't think you see where this is going but have you ever heard of guilt by association? If anyone in your group has a low standing, the NPC is probably not going to talk to anyone. But there is good news here. If a PC have a bad attitude (the hidden stat) he can find NPCs that like them more. Of course don't bring mister goody two shoes because you run into the opposite problem. Do you understand now?
After todays let down on getting major financial backing again, I am taking Whren out of the mainstream anyway. It will get done when it gets done and it will be a small niche game for the real role player. Since I am the God that made the world of Whren I will do as I please with it. If anyone wants to change the route I am taking in design and development, PAY me to make that change.! If I get 2 subs I'll call it a critical success because I can play the game free.
Nuff said.
what product? what are you talking sbout, are you ognna sit there and tell me you 'buy' things in game? or wait.. do you think because you play a game a lot that your in some way doing 'something'? people like you thinking you can use educated busness terms (not that you really used a lot of them) and try to slander something, which quite frankly- complaints like your could be applied to dish washer detergent for all it matter. anywya, i cant believe im replying to you anyway, your just an empty shell anyway.
have anice day ^_^
Check original Runequest quests. Best in the whole MMO market.
Man I don't normally read through the longer threads because I find usually I would have little to contribute by the end, but I'm glad I read this one. I really have to agree with what I see as the overwhelming direction of moving toward meaningful quests.
I'm a fan of the paid GM idea as well. Not on a 100% content driver, but as a tweaker and behind the scenes inhabitor of random mobs here and there. Bringing the unexpected in here and there so players never expect it, but come to appreciate it. More than events, but way less than table top nurturing. And as far as fiscal feasibility goes, guess what? They actually pay people to write those thousands of quests in game. Look at how many people they employ at a theme park. the ratio of employee to daily patron is like 1 employee for every 3 or 4 people depending on the season (look into it). Now $4500 a month in daily passes to $15 translates to a 1:300 cost conversion. Now thats 900-1200 players to oversee per GM by the same staffing standard as a theme park that has MASSIVE overhead in the REAL world. For those that follow, my point is that I think it's feasible to consider.
I also agree with less quests, more meaning. Dynamics in the world is an eventual, not just a maybe for mmo's I think. And the goal system needs a major overhaul. Anyone here ever get quest overload? lol my bro and I talk about it every time we get to a new quest hub in some game, run around grabing all the quests, then feel overwhelmed and don't want to do any of them, because its like some big chore to run around finishing crap we dont bother reading because it's pointless. I really want the freedom I felt when I never had a quest log. Give me something in the back of my mind that I slowly build toward, or dream of pursuing one day, something big, and It will be better than a thousand well written "quests".
UO,AC1&2,EQ1&2,DAOC,SB,SWG,FFXI, Horizons,EvE,E&B,AO,WoW,VG, Lineage,GW,TR,LotR,AoC,CoH,DDO a myriad of FtP...and still looking...
Can you elaborate on this? I'm curious.
When you enter a zone, you can choose between Normal or Epic. Epic is harder mobs with better drops - a group based zone.
The day/night cycle in AOC was horrible. Talk about removing any bit of immersion that game was attempting to acheive. Besides, the quests even though you were in essentially a single player game still weren't as good as WOWs. I was paying a monthly fee to play a single player RPG that wasn't as good as most single player RPGs...NICE job Funcom. And they wonder why they lost 90% of their players.
Phasing tech is far more effective than just removing yourself from the world entirely.
So, ignoring the trolls....
I'm a little dubious about the possibility of having as many paid live GMs to run quests or stage events. Especially, as the content would be repeatable for different players, no? I wouldn't want to be the GM who has to run "Escape from the Dark Tower" (tm) 12 times every day.
If the interaction between GMs (other players OR paid) is this close, then quests are one-off occurrances and the term 'quest' in common MMORPG parlance doesn't really fit anymore. It's more akin to an 'adventure' or 'storyline' like the one you have during a pen-and-paper session.
However, we all agree that quests need to be meaningful. One aspect of this is the effect on the game world - i.e. there usually isn't any. I'm not sure if it is possible to have individual player's actions have that much of an impact, but I can see this being used to actually promote the server/faction/region storyline.
I know this has been done in the past. I've seen it in AO, when town were attacked by hordes of (GM spawned) monsters, or in WoW with the opening of the gates to AQ. In the latter example there was (to my knowledge) no GM involvement, but it was a player 'quest' that changed the game world. However, these events were to one-dimensional. In WoW's case it often happened with only a small percentage of the server being able to witness or take part in.
Generally, though, I could see this mechanic used to tell a (dynamic!) story in-game. For example: War rages and one faction of NPCs is making a push to claim a particular region. They are attacking towns (no safe zone), ambush caravans (trade impaired), build fortifications and finally besiege the regions capitol. Needless to say, this alone provides a nice backstory for a number of the more traditional quests (scout/fedex/kill/collect/etc.). Depending on player participation and the outcome of individual battles and (one-off, GM led) missions the region either changes hands and becomes bandit territory or the players prevail and save their towns and NPCs. Both options are possible and if there are multiple servers I would expect each of them to be in a different state - some where the region was lost and some where it was successfully defended.
Now, I'm a firm believer in the power of identification with your team/guild/character/server. I think players would see themselves much more a part of their particular world, they have a stake in and where they have been in the trenches with one another to battle the forces of evil (or good). I think it would be much more exciting to log in each day, if you don't quite know what to expect. Has the enemy taken the peninsula? Have our neighbors responded to our cry for help? What missions will be need to be carried out today and is my guild going to be a part of it? Ask not what your MMORPG can do for you, ask what you can do for your MMORPG!
These things should not just be happening every other month, but every day or week. Tell the story! This is why we started playing RPGs in the first place.