Originally posted by zymurgeist The real question is at what point does a recreation become harmful?
Yep. The corollary conundrum is "How do we know what is harmful?"
At best, we find out after a generation has experienced it and then make any corrections that might be needed. At worst, the experience works on us like the slowly warming water does on a frog; we won't really understand what the problem is until the water is boiling. If fiction is a fundamentally negative influence on society, then it would seem that we're on our way to boiling water. If not, then it's all good.
My money's on the boiling water scenario. I suppose I view entertainment as an analogue of global warming. The origins of global warming were systemic, deeply-rooted in the culture and ultimately damaging in a very significant way (assuming it's due to us, of course).
If everyone had their own private holodeck, I wonder how many people would ever leave it. That might be the destination for all advanced cultures and is the reason that no evolved race ever got around to visiting us or sending signals.
How's that for wandering far afield? MMOs are proof that there are no alien visitors.
"The economic bubble burst and the credit crunch loom somewhere large in all of this."
Hysterical.
If you're going to take the time to post something this long, please don't BOLD everything and please check your spelling. Things like "loose" instead of "lose" and the many typo's really detracts from your point.
Please revise this so that others don't suffer through it as I did.
Awww this thread got so dead suddenly.... *sighs* Why you people do that?!?! C'mon there are serious issues here *sighs* . Ok then i ll try to rehype this thread .
Tele or puters or internet or mmo's , don't act as opium for the masses . What does act as opium for the masses isnt even opium. Forums could be opium for the masses and threads like this and pretty much 99,9% since everyone has to say what they feel like and follow, but they are not. Masses are the opium of the masses. We talk and talk and listen and listen and talk more , There is a part of the scientific community and some papers you can find them i am sure you can google up (or never find them mwa hahaha) that state that the rapid information on any form is making the human species with the legendery trait of "Problem solving" to "force" the species brain to expand more eventually causing some sort of evolution in the species, Or downfall.....
If you read till here and you still believe i am saying the truth you must be mad!!!!
"The economic bubble burst and the credit crunch loom somewhere large in all of this." Hysterical. If you're going to take the time to post something this long, please don't BOLD everything and please check your spelling. Things like "loose" instead of "lose" and the many typo's really detracts from your point. Please revise this so that others don't suffer through it as I did.
Hmm, I went through the OP's recent posts; she was the one who started that whole "should WAR be closed down?" thing. That would indicate that she's just toying around with posters here with all that "superior" posturing. Let's see if she has the guts to reply to some of the responses here, or will just jump on to whatever next frivolous endeavour she's entertaining.
Hmm, I went through the OP's recent posts; she was the one who started that whole "should WAR be closed down?" thing. That would indicate that she's just toying around with posters here with all that "superior" posturing. Let's see if she has the guts to reply to some of the responses here, or will just jump on to whatever next frivolous endeavour she's entertaining.
Voila !!!!!
Edit : Proud to be a statistic since day 1 (as a conceived cell in a womb)
I'm not sure if its been said before but simply not enough people play MMOs for it to be an Opium of the masses as said by Karl Marx when referring to religion.
In my opinion, MMO's are an opium ti make people to not think on real life problems only if these people use it to avoid real life problems. I mean it's an opium if you use it as an opium but you can throw in thisd basket anything you do in your free time. Are mmos bad?. No, they aren't Is the use you make of them what can turn them bad.
How do we locate MMOs in a wider social, cultural and political milieu? What designated or latent mechanisms and aspirations feed into the ideology of the MMO? Some claim that MMO's are for people who are politically and intellectually subdued. People who lack balance and outward looking sensibilities. How would we prove critics these wrong? Others claim that MMOs neutralize any political stance because they are part of a pervasive consumer culture, where only immediate, short term gratification counts. Others even claim that the culture of MMOs contribute to a selfish individualism, where aggressive competitivness reigns supreme, and even when people do share its ultimately about personal reward and gain.For the counter arguments the defenders of MMOs will claim they are a harmless pastime, relaxing diversions and "we are only having fun, so stfu"or else "It's just about enjoyment, so WTF are you talking about?" Don't talk to us about gender, race or religion. For these MMO's are somehow isolated from any material reality. The real world is "bracketed off" at the point of immersion - at that point of "login and password". As nothing more than forms of escapism, MMOs temporarily immunize from those harsh realities. So, politics are best left alone while we get on with our levelling. Leave the "pseudo-intellectual bullshit" to one side they will tell you.
The story goes that once upon a time television was the root of all evil in society, subsequently video games were the root of all societies evils . And if you go back and read the certain critical histories, Sci Fi was the root of all societies evils (That horrible Jules Verne or Edgar Rice Burroughs), and Comics were destroying young peoples minds. Are MMOs the present day "opium of the masses"? Those horrid Futurists who loose their sense of reality. We may ask what societal value MMOs make? Do they create a perverse form of psychological docility or meaningful engagement? Do they rest on a sort of psychological reductionism (e.g. only my desires and 'rights' count) or do they contribute to a form of sociability?
Did Karl Marx famously say "World of Warcraft is the opium of the masses". Ooops, no, we are mixing that up with senior Chinese official Kou Xiaowei, who just said "Although China's online gaming industry had been hot in recent years, online games are regarded by many as a sort of spiritual opium and the whole industry is marginalized by mainstream society." Online game sales in China in 2007 were $1.46 billion, a more than 60% increase over the year before. There are 40 million online game players in China. So now the Chinese state wants to crack down on "undesirable elements of online games", and I don't think they are talking about gold spammers.For the person with an addictive personality, or the person who's real life is one-dimensional MMOs can be very very addictive. We all know people who have quit their jobs, left their partners and even forgotten to feed their dog. Some people vanish into MMOs for the feeling of advancement or progression that they don't have in real life. Which in extreme cases means they are forgoing real life committments to advance their in game character.
For some MMOs become the single most important indicator of well-being. They become the defining feature of a solipsistic self, with progression in MMOs being the equivalent of a search for attainment that satisfies the production of desire. Is it true that the typical MMO player tries incessantly to track down through various sources missing virtual object(s) that will fill her lack and turn her into a cyborg human being. The impossibility of fulfilling this desire leads to ever increasing demands for new sources of satisfaction and a spiralling escalation of false needs. Perhaps this is an indicator of the incessant dissatisfaction that is constantly shown with new MMO releases. It is not really a case that these new releases are dire. Rather our expectations always rise as fast as our situations improve, with satisfaction afterwards quickly levelling out. After a period of adjustment, individuals return to their baseline levels of MMO satisfaction leaving players on a ‘‘hedonic treadmill’’ of insatiation.MMO players become the ultimate cultural signifier of the dissatisfied consumer.‘Make me happy’ becomes the consumptive mantra of the MMO player. So we get banal threads like "Are you Happy with today's MMORPGs?", "My Perfect MMO" and even "Fun game nowadays?". In this sense the benchmark of good gaming has a ‘fictitious character’, rooted in hopes, dreams and aspirations until such time as they are actually realized. The desiring opiate of the MMO fastens on to aspirations of quality of life as part of an accumulative process that never quite happens.
Are MMOs representative of the explosion of New Age psychology, with ‘self-help’ guides feeding the culture of nacissism? Is the economy of the MMO essentially about making all things equal in the land of gaming. Thus distinction becomes increasingly impossible because all MMOs essentially signify the same thing – they are ‘objects to be consumed’. Nothing more, nothing less. The psychology of self-expression and self-fulfillment with your typical MMO player becomes merely a matter of product choices, short term gratification and banal acts of consumption. Knowing how to consume is a chief marker of distinction for the addicted MMO player.
The economic bubble burst and the credit crunch loom somewhere large in all of this.
Dear Keridwan ,
Why this wall of text is wrong!
Has no soul whatsoever , you say what you want to say but where you stand on this? To me it doesn't matter if i feed up this thread or give you fodder. Rhetorical Questions and also A general critism is fine. But after reading this text once to many times, i conclude in a simple fact : Your writing on this is "mathematical/statistical/factual perhaps" but it certainly has no Colors . I'd much rather have read a "WTF this or that"! *smiles* Really ....
It is not opium for me. But since the masses in the USA, Europe, and Asia were drawn to MMORPGs, we have had just pathetic looking generic worlds, gameplay that is easy-mode, graphics that make gear look cartoony and immature, and communities that prevent me from enjoying the game.
I AM WILLING TO PAY AT LEAST 100.00 A MONTH FOR A GAME OF WORLD IMMERSION, CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION, EXPLORATION, COMMUNITY, CULTURE, TRAVEL, EXCITING GAMEPLAY, AND INNOVATION
I COULD PLAY SEVERAL MMORPGS FOR FREE, AND I DO NOT EVEN DO THAT!
It is not opium for me. But since the masses in the USA, Europe, and Asia were drawn to MMORPGs, we have had just pathetic looking generic worlds, gameplay that is easy-mode, graphics that make gear look cartoony and immature, and communities that prevent me from enjoying the game.
I AM WILLING TO PAY AT LEAST 100.00 A MONTH FOR A GAME OF WORLD IMMERSION, CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION, EXPLORATION, COMMUNITY, CULTURE, TRAVEL, EXCITING GAMEPLAY, AND INNOVATION I COULD PLAY SEVERAL MMORPGS FOR FREE, AND I DO NOT EVEN DO THAT!
BUMP!!!!! but mate you ll be paying my subscription in this game , I can wash dishes, I can clean rooms and also say smartass things on smartassiness mode But really What i do best is Quoting and yours is worth it!
Fantastic post OP. Thoughtful, suggestive and unswervingly provocative. More like this please. I guess you anticipated all the hate spam, nastiness and personal attacks. I have watched these boards for some time now and anything that resembles an intelligent contribution gets reduced to personal attacks and accusations. Is it true you got banned for three days for posting the result of the WAR survey? How ridiculous.
I can't believe these people don't understand "opium for the masses" is a metaphor rather than a real thing. Some even criticize you for using bold type and making two typos !!! Oh and "wall of text", I guess that means anything longer than 1000 words is just too much to handle. ha ha ha
What is most amazing though is the way many of the replies to this thread actually confirm your original hypothesis that "MMO players become the ultimate cultural signifier of the dissatisfied ego".
Fantastic post OP. Thoughtful, suggestive and unswervingly provocative. More like this please. I guess you anticipated all the hate spam, nastiness and personal attacks. I have watched these boards for some time now and anything that resembles an intelligent contribution gets reduced to a personal attack. Is it true you got banned for three days for posting the result of the WAR survey? How ridiculous. I can't believe these people don't understand "opium for the masses" is a metaphor rather than a real thing. And some even criticize you for using bold type !!! Oh and "wall of text", I guess that means anything longer than 1000 words is too much to handle. ha ha ha
Well dear Bernician, what you fail to see willingly or not is that despite the beautifully written post, it misses color, it misses a personal view and it really is sterile. It reminds me of plastic flowers( being to early to make a more decent metaphor), not everything that looks nice, appeals to me at least. Now if you excuse me i ll go have some coffee and act as a human being !
Edit : I personally used the phrase "wall of text" simply because for me it is nothing more than aligned words of which i derive no feeling whatsoever, in the context of a metaphor. Walls are ooglie!!!
Fantastic post OP. Thoughtful, suggestive and unswervingly provocative. More like this please. I guess you anticipated all the hate spam, nastiness and personal attacks. I have watched these boards for some time now and anything that resembles an intelligent contribution gets reduced to a personal attack. Is it true you got banned for three days for posting the result of the WAR survey? How ridiculous.
I can't believe these people don't understand "opium for the masses" is a metaphor rather than a real thing. And some even criticize you for using bold type !!! Oh and "wall of text", I guess that means anything longer than 1000 words is just too much to handle. ha ha ha
What is most amazing though is the way many of the replies to this thread actually confirm your original hypothesis that "MMO players become the ultimate cultural signifier of the dissatisfied ego".
Welcome to the boards, really too early for mannerism but welcome. As of the lovely quotation of : "MMO players become the ultimate cultural signifier of the dissatisfied ego" , so you propose a new "label" to gamers, like "the disatisfied gamers gen" like Gen-G or something similar ? I really don't get this , Bernician . Too much labeling and one too many assumptions in the OP!
Re-edited : I feel, w/o knowing the OP, that this post was created to create impressions! And so far on that matter it delivers. But i ll keep an eye around if the OP has a 3 day ban to see if she will answer any of this....Dear Bernician!
Well dear Bernician, what you fail to see willingly or not is that despite the beautifully written post, it misses color, it misses a personal view and it really is sterile. It reminds me of plastic flowers( being to early to make a more decent metaphor), not everything that looks nice, appeals to me at least. Now if you excuse me i ll go have some coffee and act as a human being !
Some might consider "missing colour" and "missing a personal view" a compliment. In other words it is indicative of an objective perspective that raises questions and arguments from a neutral standpoint. But I should quickly say I don't think it is objective. Au contraire. It's deliberately provocative and that is what I liked most about it. Ok it might lack some of the journalistic flair that you are referring to but it is one of the most carefully constructed posts I have read in these forums. I don't see how its sterile if we take the definition to mean "lacking in stimulating emotional or intellectual quality". It is just the opposite of this. Fiesty, engaging and stimulating.
It requires people to think rather than trot out techo nerdy stuff about system rigs, specs or offer the silliest opinions on almost anything that moves.
But anyways, to be honest Patternizer I reckon we should concentrate on its substance rather than its presentational style. Content over form. I am just amazed how the very things it sets out to say are absolutely confirmed in most of the replies, right down to the letter. And I see "Are you Happy with your MMORPGs today" is still flying high in the thread tables. www.mmorpg.com would be a great place for "happiness studies research" (or lack thereof) ha ha!
Hope you enjoyed your coffee. Being human, all too human is a great asset these days.
It lacks not intellectual but as you very rapidly answered emotional quality *smiles* . You have a point though! The essence is the opium of the masses =the MMORPG. No , "The System "is! My opinion said now i ll try to clarify that a bit w/o making this more messed up than it is. "The system" need people controlled, if you can't acknowledge I really can't converse anymore on this topic. If you agree(and see that i am not labeling "the system" or defining it more) then you could easily see that yes Everything "the system" produces is there to keep you happy and stable. Mmorpg's since they are part of "the system" they are there to make you vent or mellow out if you please. So yes being part of "the system" they play their role, but let's not blame the gun for firing now eh? It's the human that presses the trigger , on which case is "the system". What can be done about it? N/A (at least for me, at least now that i have my pc , my 32" tv next to it and my laptop on the other side of my 24" monitor while drinking a very popular brand of coffee and smoking my cigaretes, enough said). Thank you for read this wall of text!
Edit: Still having my coffee *smiles* i enjoy it dammit!
Comments
And thank you for going on tangents that just give more fodder to the OP.
And thank you for going on tangents that just give more fodder to the OP.
Giving at least one more ...bump this!
Signature!!!...
Mmorpg the new stupid people drug.
With all the crap iv seen since Wow
I dont think anyone with even half a brain is
playing a mmo atm.
So what are you doing here?!? hahahahahaha
Edit : shouldn't you be preaching somewhere?
Edited again : I own 1/4 of a brain and i am not playing an mmo so Am i stupid or not? I am so lost!!!!
Signature!!!...
[quote]Originally posted by Vetarnias
Seriously, wut?
Yep. The corollary conundrum is "How do we know what is harmful?"
At best, we find out after a generation has experienced it and then make any corrections that might be needed. At worst, the experience works on us like the slowly warming water does on a frog; we won't really understand what the problem is until the water is boiling. If fiction is a fundamentally negative influence on society, then it would seem that we're on our way to boiling water. If not, then it's all good.
My money's on the boiling water scenario. I suppose I view entertainment as an analogue of global warming. The origins of global warming were systemic, deeply-rooted in the culture and ultimately damaging in a very significant way (assuming it's due to us, of course).
If everyone had their own private holodeck, I wonder how many people would ever leave it. That might be the destination for all advanced cultures and is the reason that no evolved race ever got around to visiting us or sending signals.
How's that for wandering far afield? MMOs are proof that there are no alien visitors.
"The economic bubble burst and the credit crunch loom somewhere large in all of this."
Hysterical.
If you're going to take the time to post something this long, please don't BOLD everything and please check your spelling. Things like "loose" instead of "lose" and the many typo's really detracts from your point.
Please revise this so that others don't suffer through it as I did.
so...
Awww this thread got so dead suddenly.... *sighs* Why you people do that?!?! C'mon there are serious issues here *sighs* . Ok then i ll try to rehype this thread .
Tele or puters or internet or mmo's , don't act as opium for the masses . What does act as opium for the masses isnt even opium. Forums could be opium for the masses and threads like this and pretty much 99,9% since everyone has to say what they feel like and follow, but they are not. Masses are the opium of the masses. We talk and talk and listen and listen and talk more , There is a part of the scientific community and some papers you can find them i am sure you can google up (or never find them mwa hahaha) that state that the rapid information on any form is making the human species with the legendery trait of "Problem solving" to "force" the species brain to expand more eventually causing some sort of evolution in the species, Or downfall.....
If you read till here and you still believe i am saying the truth you must be mad!!!!
Signature!!!...
Typical ....netx Plox!
Signature!!!...
If only.
so...
If only.
Bunnies were hoping around! Hoping around!
Signature!!!...
Hmm, I went through the OP's recent posts; she was the one who started that whole "should WAR be closed down?" thing. That would indicate that she's just toying around with posters here with all that "superior" posturing. Let's see if she has the guts to reply to some of the responses here, or will just jump on to whatever next frivolous endeavour she's entertaining.
Voila !!!!!
Edit : Proud to be a statistic since day 1 (as a conceived cell in a womb)
Signature!!!...
I'm not sure if its been said before but simply not enough people play MMOs for it to be an Opium of the masses as said by Karl Marx when referring to religion.
Im avoiding to copy paste all this wall of text.
In my opinion, MMO's are an opium ti make people to not think on real life problems only if these people use it to avoid real life problems. I mean it's an opium if you use it as an opium but you can throw in thisd basket anything you do in your free time. Are mmos bad?. No, they aren't Is the use you make of them what can turn them bad.
Dear Keridwan ,
Why this wall of text is wrong!
Has no soul whatsoever , you say what you want to say but where you stand on this? To me it doesn't matter if i feed up this thread or give you fodder. Rhetorical Questions and also A general critism is fine. But after reading this text once to many times, i conclude in a simple fact : Your writing on this is "mathematical/statistical/factual perhaps" but it certainly has no Colors . I'd much rather have read a "WTF this or that"! *smiles* Really ....
Signature!!!...
Religion still wins as main opiate of the masses....
It is not opium for me. But since the masses in the USA, Europe, and Asia were drawn to MMORPGs, we have had just pathetic looking generic worlds, gameplay that is easy-mode, graphics that make gear look cartoony and immature, and communities that prevent me from enjoying the game.
I AM WILLING TO PAY AT LEAST 100.00 A MONTH FOR A GAME OF WORLD IMMERSION, CHARACTER CUSTOMIZATION, EXPLORATION, COMMUNITY, CULTURE, TRAVEL, EXCITING GAMEPLAY, AND INNOVATION
I COULD PLAY SEVERAL MMORPGS FOR FREE, AND I DO NOT EVEN DO THAT!
Wait till someone hits on the brilliant idea:
Nazareth Online (a Lord and Saviour British Game).
BUMP!!!!! but mate you ll be paying my subscription in this game , I can wash dishes, I can clean rooms and also say smartass things on smartassiness mode
But really What i do best is Quoting and yours is worth it!
P.S. I need cleaning gloves!
Signature!!!...
Wait till someone hits on the brilliant idea:
Nazareth Online (a Lord and Saviour British Game).
*laughs so hard * Dude that killed me!!!! Hey can i be Paul? on the first expansion? Omg !!! LoL
I hate double posting argg someone has to teach me how to multiquote
Signature!!!...
Fantastic post OP. Thoughtful, suggestive and unswervingly provocative. More like this please. I guess you anticipated all the hate spam, nastiness and personal attacks. I have watched these boards for some time now and anything that resembles an intelligent contribution gets reduced to personal attacks and accusations. Is it true you got banned for three days for posting the result of the WAR survey? How ridiculous.
I can't believe these people don't understand "opium for the masses" is a metaphor rather than a real thing. Some even criticize you for using bold type and making two typos !!! Oh and "wall of text", I guess that means anything longer than 1000 words is just too much to handle. ha ha ha
What is most amazing though is the way many of the replies to this thread actually confirm your original hypothesis that "MMO players become the ultimate cultural signifier of the dissatisfied ego".
Im a pretender
Well dear Bernician, what you fail to see willingly or not is that despite the beautifully written post, it misses color, it misses a personal view and it really is sterile. It reminds me of plastic flowers( being to early to make a more decent metaphor), not everything that looks nice, appeals to me at least. Now if you excuse me i ll go have some coffee and act as a human being !
Edit : I personally used the phrase "wall of text" simply because for me it is nothing more than aligned words of which i derive no feeling whatsoever, in the context of a metaphor. Walls are ooglie!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Bernician
Fantastic post OP. Thoughtful, suggestive and unswervingly provocative. More like this please. I guess you anticipated all the hate spam, nastiness and personal attacks. I have watched these boards for some time now and anything that resembles an intelligent contribution gets reduced to a personal attack. Is it true you got banned for three days for posting the result of the WAR survey? How ridiculous.
I can't believe these people don't understand "opium for the masses" is a metaphor rather than a real thing. And some even criticize you for using bold type !!! Oh and "wall of text", I guess that means anything longer than 1000 words is just too much to handle. ha ha ha
What is most amazing though is the way many of the replies to this thread actually confirm your original hypothesis that "MMO players become the ultimate cultural signifier of the dissatisfied ego".
Welcome to the boards, really too early for mannerism but welcome. As of the lovely quotation of : "MMO players become the ultimate cultural signifier of the dissatisfied ego" , so you propose a new "label" to gamers, like "the disatisfied gamers gen" like Gen-G or something similar ? I really don't get this , Bernician . Too much labeling and one too many assumptions in the OP!
Re-edited : I feel, w/o knowing the OP, that this post was created to create impressions! And so far on that matter it delivers. But i ll keep an eye around if the OP has a 3 day ban to see if she will answer any of this....Dear Bernician!
Signature!!!...
Well dear Bernician, what you fail to see willingly or not is that despite the beautifully written post, it misses color, it misses a personal view and it really is sterile. It reminds me of plastic flowers( being to early to make a more decent metaphor), not everything that looks nice, appeals to me at least. Now if you excuse me i ll go have some coffee and act as a human being !
Some might consider "missing colour" and "missing a personal view" a compliment. In other words it is indicative of an objective perspective that raises questions and arguments from a neutral standpoint. But I should quickly say I don't think it is objective. Au contraire. It's deliberately provocative and that is what I liked most about it. Ok it might lack some of the journalistic flair that you are referring to but it is one of the most carefully constructed posts I have read in these forums. I don't see how its sterile if we take the definition to mean "lacking in stimulating emotional or intellectual quality". It is just the opposite of this. Fiesty, engaging and stimulating.
It requires people to think rather than trot out techo nerdy stuff about system rigs, specs or offer the silliest opinions on almost anything that moves.
But anyways, to be honest Patternizer I reckon we should concentrate on its substance rather than its presentational style. Content over form. I am just amazed how the very things it sets out to say are absolutely confirmed in most of the replies, right down to the letter. And I see "Are you Happy with your MMORPGs today" is still flying high in the thread tables. www.mmorpg.com would be a great place for "happiness studies research" (or lack thereof) ha ha!
Hope you enjoyed your coffee. Being human, all too human is a great asset these days.
Im a pretender
It lacks not intellectual but as you very rapidly answered emotional quality *smiles* . You have a point though! The essence is the opium of the masses =the MMORPG. No , "The System "is! My opinion said now i ll try to clarify that a bit w/o making this more messed up than it is. "The system" need people controlled, if you can't acknowledge I really can't converse anymore on this topic. If you agree(and see that i am not labeling "the system" or defining it more) then you could easily see that yes Everything "the system" produces is there to keep you happy and stable. Mmorpg's since they are part of "the system" they are there to make you vent or mellow out if you please. So yes being part of "the system" they play their role, but let's not blame the gun for firing now eh? It's the human that presses the trigger , on which case is "the system". What can be done about it? N/A (at least for me, at least now that i have my pc , my 32" tv next to it and my laptop on the other side of my 24" monitor while drinking a very popular brand of coffee and smoking my cigaretes, enough said). Thank you for read this wall of text!
Edit: Still having my coffee *smiles* i enjoy it dammit!
Signature!!!...