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Stealth/hide for all? For certain classes? Or as a choice?
Rallycart
Member UncommonPosts: 717
I remember when AoC was being release, and everyone was complaining about the fact that everyone would be able to hide, even if they might not being effective at it. However, logically, it makes sense. I don't need to be a professional theif to be able to sneak up on someone. I kind of likef that everyone COULD hide, if they wanted to use points on the skill, but not everyone agreed.
It seems that a lot of people want the same old same old, where only rogue types have the ability to stealth. But what does everyone else think?
I, personally, think that every class should be CAPABLE of stealthing, but only the rogue classes should be proficient in it. As a warrior, I should be able to sneak up on a player that is not very aware, and is not looking at me. However, if I am a rogue kind of class, I should be able to sneak up on a more aware player, but still not if he/she is looking directly at me.
Anyway, just looking for what other people think. And, for the sake of arguements, we are assume that the game in question that these characters would be in are in a class based MMO. Obviously, in a classless game, this point is moot.
Comments
I don't think anyone should be capable of stealthing. Also having anyone be able to stealth is literally like say "Oh hai we realize this mechanic hax uber-unbalanced, we can't balance it so we'll give it to everyone".
One does not approach 20 sets of eyes and stab a person in the back, then disappears to do it again.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
What would be your idea then? Due to the ability to mouse over people, even through shrubs to highlight them, tab target, spin your camera at will, without spinning your character, and just generally seeing the name of a player floating over their head, there just is not any way to replicate the ability to actually sneak up on someone. You can't even use lots of shadows, and make the game dark enough for people to be able to skulk around, because people will just turn up the gamma and brightness, and spot people through pure darkness.
Everyone stealthing worked out well in AoC, however the big objection is that it prevents player interaction and conflict. Technically thats the purpose of a PvP server or PvP area.
My biggest problem isnt stealth itself. But putting stealth on a burst DPS class. I think it would be fine if you put stealth on a healer or support class...you wont find as many players complaining (Only the dps classes)
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
I think they should do it like this:
Allow it as a trainable skill for everyone, kind of like AoC did, or Fallout 3. However should your character be decked out in heavy or medium armor, or is carrying some big weapon along with him, then he should suffer severe penalties to his stealth ability.
The time of day should also play a factor, during the day you are more likely to be spot, unless say your a specialized stealth class like a rogue, but everyone else suffers penalties until nighfall.
Allow your environment to play a factor, if your in a heavily shadowed area next to a building or under something, then you get the full effects of stealth skill.
Movement as well should effect how noticable you are, if your running/jogging in stealth, then you should suffer decent penalties and be more noticable, unless again you are rogue which can maybe get a skill to override this. Make it so walking quietly or standing still is more beneficial to hiding.
There are other ways to surprise someone to get the upper hand. I think that such an unbalancing crutch as stealth mechanics in their current implementations are pretty well lame. Most other implementations however are open to other kinds of abuse(client mod, what you mentioned). Just better off focusing on real combat and adding in social factors to combat in my opinion.
Just because I feel that stealth mechanics shouldn't exist and you don't. doesn't mean one of us is wrong.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
There are other ways to surprise someone to get the upper hand. I think that such an unbalancing crutch as stealth mechanics in their current implementations are pretty well lame. Most other implementations however are open to other kinds of abuse(client mod, what you mentioned). Just better off focusing on real combat and adding in social factors to combat in my opinion.
Just because I feel that stealth mechanics shouldn't exist and you don't. doesn't mean one of us is wrong.
Of course not. I am sorry if it came off like I was saying you were wrong, because that is certainly not what I meant. I don't think stealth should be "invisibility", like in WoW and other similar games. However, i was just wondering what the solution would be? Maybe each person actually has a field of vision, and anything NOT in that field of vision is considered stealthed, but with noise being a factor that illuminates them? You could have a 3rd person view, but only see things in a frontal cone, or what?
Thats why I loved the Anarchy Online skill system. Any class could put skill points in any skill, only it cost more for out of class skills.
As a caster (nano-techinician), I always put a little into stealth, it allowed you to hide from the lvl 1 beggars.
There are other ways to surprise someone to get the upper hand. I think that such an unbalancing crutch as stealth mechanics in their current implementations are pretty well lame. Most other implementations however are open to other kinds of abuse(client mod, what you mentioned). Just better off focusing on real combat and adding in social factors to combat in my opinion.
Just because I feel that stealth mechanics shouldn't exist and you don't. doesn't mean one of us is wrong.
Of course not. I am sorry if it came off like I was saying you were wrong, because that is certainly not what I meant. I don't think stealth should be "invisibility", like in WoW and other similar games. However, i was just wondering what the solution would be? Maybe each person actually has a field of vision, and anything NOT in that field of vision is considered stealthed, but with noise being a factor that illuminates them? You could have a 3rd person view, but only see things in a frontal cone, or what?
Stealth is blatently a Miracle mechanic. Activate it, fulfill whatever requirements. Then they automatically have the lead in the fight and a fight where they got to personally hand pick to fight(and pass ones you didn't).
As for a cone of sight. Nope that doesn't work for anyone because it just introduces a game-retarded mechanic where at completely random and constant times you have players suddenly stopping what they're doing and dancing around.
Quite simply put I feel that if someone wants to stealthily take the advantage they will pull a real trick(using a bow for half a second stun so your warrior self can get in range, you earned it you tricked them into thinking you're harmless at that distance. Feigning being a long range mage so people get close to you). Rather than using overly simplified mechanics that were adopted from a pen and paper game where they made sense.
PS: I just really hate stealth.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Stealth should be a standard part of any character. It's not just an attack technique because it can be used for observation and evasion in a game with any kind of interesting gameplay.
Ideally, visibility is simulated with all the applicable factors. More practically, it could be implemented using a visibility map that is similar to a height map - your location and size determine how far away you can see and be seen. So if you and your group are moving through tall grass, you can see the people closest to you, but those farther away start to fade out. Chat bubbles would serve as a good way to use voice to find each other if you get separated.
Visible noise effects could be generated by anyone moving around. Some kind of rising sparkle effect to indicate that noise is coming from an area. Horses are almost constantly giving off sparkles, as is metallic armor and other gear. You might not be visible, but if you're moving, you're giving off sparkles that can be seen even when you cannot be. "Everybody freeze so we can 'listen'"
You and your buddies are standing around waiting for some stragglers when one of you notices some sparkles off in the distance. He doesn't react because the danged sparkles are always flitting here and there. Rabbits, creaking trees, babbling brooks. But then he notices that they're bluish. That's a metallic sound. So he mentions it to the rest of the gang and sure enough, you briefly spot a guy moving quickly between places of concealment.
In response, several of your group drift back into concealment, sparkling as little as possible as they go...