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Character Weekness : "A merit and flaw" system!
Patternizer
Member Posts: 114
Alright here we go ! Superman and kryptonite, Spiderman and MJ. How many of you would be interested in an MMO that gives "merit and flaws" for your character(s). Apart from the game mechanics that seem to be getting progressively simpler As far as I see it , how would you all feel if there was a special "perk" line say that would give some extra + but mainly - ? Now how can a merit and flaw system will work on immersion in my opinion greatly. Will the MMO hungry masses of doom find apealing? Perhaps not , perhaps yes, afterall a human's second nature is adaptation.
Examples of pure "merit" -perk system in different types of mmo settings, are many not only in superhero genre, but what about "flaws" as the tittle implies I took the wording of WoD's vampires books (in the exact wording) but i am sure adaptation existed certainly Before in Books and Movies as for in games , I am begging for a system as that ! Thoughts please.... Go wild!
Editing my OP to add an example : Elric's sword Stormbringer (was that the one? or the other one? mhmmm)
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Comments
Even in what are considered the most simple games this exisit to a certain degree. For instance often in level based and class based games you choose a class that has its "merits and flaws" as you do when you level up and chose different skills. There's pro's and cons, strengths and weaknesses or merits and flaws. By the sounds of it you want or atleast are suggesting something more detailed or having a greater affect along these lines?
I don't know about the WoD's vampire books you talk about and honestly I don't really care for such a system because it reaks of class and level base game to me. For a superhero MMORPG I can see it being useful but otherwise I don't see it adding much to immersion. Immersion to me comes in the form of lore, graphics, realsim or at least a strong relation to the character not skill buffs in the form of a predefined class you choose.
Even in what are considered the most simple games this exisit to a certain degree. For instance often in level based and class based games you choose a class that has its "merits and flaws" as you do when you level up and chose different skills. There's pro's and cons, strengths and weaknesses or merits and flaws. By the sounds of it you want or atleast are suggesting something more detailed or having a greater affect along these lines?
I don't know about the WoD's vampire books you talk about and honestly I don't really care for such a system because it reaks of class and level base game to me. For a superhero MMORPG I can see it being useful but otherwise I don't see it adding much to immersion. Immersion to me comes in the form of lore, graphics, realsim or at least a strong relation to the character not skill buffs in the form of a predefined class you choose.
Please explain to me, apart from all the balancing in Every MMO out there, how classes are unique? O.o . Also i was referring to a perk system , could easily be optional , 1 merit for 1 flaw , example : Most play(ed) WoW , talents is veryeasily put "merit" system a perk tree or a talent tree. in the specific mmo. That is in my opinion giving and giving more and more power to the players to specialize with NO flaw whatsoever . Same with many "perk" mmo's . Is it hard to understand that that makes your character a toon ? I Personally care not for such mmo's not anymore ....
Also please be creative!
Edit : Please tell me that a Priest in WoW shadow can't heal at all .Certainly not as efficient as a Holy or Holy/Discipline...
And that's only 1 mmo from the many that utilize "specialization" techniques!
Re-edit : What I want is simple . I have a buff that i spam, well i want to be debuffed with "fatigue" say . Btw why is everyone cool with the "ress debuff"? Because everyone is acustomed to it . More dbuffs for using buffs and more flaws to the obvious merits. My 2 cents.
Re-re-edit : This reeks classes? you are kidding right? This is the exact opposite mate sorry to disapoint you!
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Even in what are considered the most simple games this exisit to a certain degree. For instance often in level based and class based games you choose a class that has its "merits and flaws" as you do when you level up and chose different skills. There's pro's and cons, strengths and weaknesses or merits and flaws. By the sounds of it you want or atleast are suggesting something more detailed or having a greater affect along these lines?
I don't know about the WoD's vampire books you talk about and honestly I don't really care for such a system because it reaks of class and level base game to me. For a superhero MMORPG I can see it being useful but otherwise I don't see it adding much to immersion. Immersion to me comes in the form of lore, graphics, realsim or at least a strong relation to the character not skill buffs in the form of a predefined class you choose.
Please explain to me, apart from all the balancing in Every MMO out there, how classes are unique? O.o . Also i was referring to a perk system , could easily be optional , 1 merit for 1 flaw , example : Most play(ed) WoW , talents is veryeasily put "merit" system a perk tree or a talent tree. in the specific mmo. That is in my opinion giving and giving more and more power to the players to specialize with NO flaw whatsoever . Same with many "perk" mmo's . Is it hard to understand that that makes your character a toon ? I Personally care not for such mmo's not anymore ....
Also please be creative!
Edit : Please tell me that a Priest in WoW shadow can't heal at all .Certainly not as efficient as a Holy or Holy/Discipline...
And that's only 1 mmo from the many that utilize "specialization" techniques!
Well I'm not sure how to put it creatively
I'm just giving my honest opinion.
If you reduce the amount of classes in game the more unique they become, you have a warrior, mage and maybe a ranger. In games such as WoW that than defines how you fight and how you go about killing X amount of creature to do a certain quest or how you fight as a group when raiding etc. For instance a warrior is good at melee (merit) but bad or incapable of magic (flaw). When you increase the amount of classes you get more specialised roles like offensive mage, defensive mage etc
When it comes to the perks you are choosing skills or perks (merits) at the expensive of others (flaws) now thats not as good an example of merits and flaws that exisit as class is but you still cannot deny that by choosing 1 option and not another you are further specializing your character, your not getting good at everything, your choosing you strengths and if you are specializing you do so by excluding the other options which results in weaknesses or flaws.
EDIT You made another edit to your post when I was replying. I understand what it is you want now, wasn't very clear beforehand though.
What i mean is that with or without classes( that is not the issue) the toons straggle to become eventually what commonly is said OverPowered with NO consequences . If there was an obvious merit and flaw system theire would BE consequences therefore making the game more realistic. Yet another example : A vampire is it a merit or flaw that has no reflection? Both why? yes he can be detected when it is standing next to a mirror but it's great for espionage since cameras and photographs can't capture the refelction! I hope that's a bit of a better example. So it really doesnt matter if the vampire is Mellee or Ranged ....What i m talking is of a completely different system here!
Edit : i am too tired editing! ^^
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In tabletop games, a lot of merits and flaws are represented by role-playing as much as by the system. There's nothing to stop you from role-playing in a similar way in an MMO. For example, it's not too hard to imagine playing a character that has a phobia of dogs, or suffers from hay fever.
However, I presume you want to merits and flaws to be built into the mechanics of the system. I can't help thinking this would be quite hard to program in a way which wouldn't be unbalancing in one way or another. Bare in mind that balance is far more important in an MMO than in a tabletop game. So to get it right a lot of developer hours would be required, and maybe a whole bunch of releases of the software (and could people edit their merits and flaws when a new patch changes what the effects of a merit or flaw is?). And what will they add to a game - will a flaw seriously restrict what a character can do, or will it be little more than role-playing fluff?
In other words, I think you need to think this through a little more. Give examples of sample merits and flaws. Explain why what they'd add to the game would justify the many developer hours needed to implement them. Also say why they'd be better than adding similar features via existing means (e.g. a merit that gives a bonus with a particular weapon in wow is pretty much the same as a talent tree option with the same effect).
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
I read your post , is quite solid And right on the subject , i am glad . Mind you i am not a programmer , but after i think this through in a text editor i ll repost or edit the original post with my thinking pattern on this! Thank you for giving me some feedback to work on! *smiles*
P.S. Not a roleplaying fluff but real mechanics is what i am thinking, although there could be an adaptation of the above system purely for RP fluff/fun by players. I will come back soon enough with whatever i come up with.
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"First of all you ...yes YOU! i can see that flamethrower put it away!"
Alright this is it DONT SHOOT! Ok?
well here it goes :
I am thinking of game systems atm, and it would be a lie to say that one game or the other won't do for what I am about to write. So I ll some of the mechanics of a game I know well AO, and adapt them to a theoretical mmo that doesnt exist. The following will be divided into 2 sections. The first being of game mechanics and the second being that of player added content. I ll use an example of a human without class here.
Section 1 :
In AO you get talent trees that are called perk lines. Alright lets imagine a new “perk line” that opens from “level” 2. Assumption that there will be at least a ding sound, therefore a “level” engine in this theoretical game. So at level 2 you get your first perk,or talent or whatever, to distribute, an example would be to allocate a point in the general 3 trees : offensive, defensive, hybrid. Consequences minimal here, by distributing to offensive you get a trickle down do your offensive skill(s) vs for defensive and on hybrid an even smaller trickle down, trickle up on both.
Offensive : boost+accuracy+dmg,dbuffs - AC-resists
Example level 2 female human: Hybrid(Neutral) : minor boosts,dbuffs +acc -dmg +resist - damage
Defensive : boosts +AC+resist,dbuffs -dmg - acc
<put a word for offence>
Name of “perk” : Stance of the <put a wording for hybrid>
<put a working for defensive>
So at level 2 “Renne” my level 2 female human chooses the Offensive <tree> stance, soon enough after splashing mobs and killing and more blood bath, She dings 4 ( I ll keep a 2,4 etcetera module)
So her tree now looks something like that....
Offensive Rank 2 : +boost : accuracy+dmg+(special no1), bigger dbuff in AC, resists+(special no2)
Example Renne 4 female human: Hybrid Rank 2 : minor boost(s) all , No special
Defensive Rank 2 : +boost AC+boost resistbigger dbuff in AC,resists ...But no special due to previous choice
Special no1 : your critical score is increased by %, but you have a no2% to cause Special no 2 : you are % more prone to be critically hit while aiming!
That ofcourse would arise the question why not go Defensive rank 2 , the though comes down to spending 2 perks while you could go Hybrid from the beginning and get a special in Hybrid Rank 2. This Module utilizes the fact that most gamers including me want to spend the less possible points in OP'ing their character so even if some1 would go hybrid all the way to end game, an offensive “stealthy type” would probably take them down (unless they have a very bad luck in % rolls) and a hybrid would take a lot more time trying to kill the full defensive say. Finally I am gonna type a rank 3 here.
OFR3: +major boost accuracy +damage + boost in(special 1)+(special 3) , bigger dbuff in AC, resists+(special 2)
Example Renne 6 female human : HR3 : minor boost(s) off +(special removal of special 1) , bigger Dbuff in AC,resists
DR3 : +major boost AC,resists + (purge of special 1+2) – minor AC ,resists- ( special 4)
Special 3 : the (special 1) if procs has a % chance to let's say snare the target for % amount equal to critical hit.
If “Renne” chooses to move to HR3 the special 1 is removed trying to balance out to a neutral stance. If “Renne” goes with Dr3 the effects of (special 1+2) are removed and a special 4 is dbuffing her. Special 4 : a small % to miss
So as you grow into levels you get the specials be it attacks or ++ with a hazard of procing a minus or more than 1 effects!
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Well that's my post for section 1. I am just a gamer and I know probably the whole "module" is ridiculous, but that's how I d like to have consequences with my choices and my actions. Needless to say that the Defensive “Healer” type will be again with the above system to remove or as Offensive invoke such dbuff's depending on how each one chooses to go and specc their character. I am pretty certain I ll make a fool of myself after posting this but hey to hell with this!
Section 2 : Utilizes the same system in player created content (perhaps for holiday events?) to add to their fun!
Bottomline : That's certainly something I personally in one way or another i d like to see in a game, consequences triggered by increasing power(s), that in my opinion adds to the realism of any given game that deals with Avatars. As if anyone is going to use such a system I am sure NONE will. Well that's all be well!
Edit : Editing to add the following even if you choose defensive you still get "dbuffs" and special and buffs only vs with the offensive example of "Renne"
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The thing is that in a video game most merits are just going to be stat bonuses or stat bonuses under certain conditions. It really can't be anymore than that like it is in a Pen and Paper game because you don't have a GM to act as oversite for stuff when it's needed.
I for one would find it depressing if a Selkies hydrophilia disadvantage was turned into nothing more that +5% crit near water. That a min-maxer would take for a farming alt for the "kilariale salt marsh lands" instead of the roleplay aspect it's supposed to be.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Yeah i can see your point , the whole post was an example though. I am not a programmer or work for any game or the game industry, i just thought this example, and brought it here, i love Playing games. Nothing more or less. Plus you have to remember you ll get the +5% critical near water and it will be really easy to farm in a water area, true ! The example it self gives you tho a % to trigger to be critical hit . Say each combat takes from 5-20 "rounds" or clicks....You could easily say by aoe farming be really backfired.... Now that's my opinion on a theoretical game on a theoretic system of "talents" "merits" "perks", and nothing else.
Although the same "mode" if used for RP in games just for what it is , it could provide you with this aspect you are saying. In which case it wouldnt effect stats but give % for things to happen or not happen or happen faulty . Example again: the dance emote , % to dance % to fail % to ...etcetera
Oh well, this system was and is an example. I am sure it's practically impossible
Be well!
Edit: i ll be checking the thread later i need to take distance from the screen before my eyes pop!
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Bingo! Exactly what i was trying to pass across. Thank you for reading the OP and posting this! *smiles*
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