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Alternate War MMO
NakedFury
Member UncommonPosts: 411
What went wrong with the game? Why all the crying, kicking, and pointing faults in who did what? Seriously I wanna know.
What would have been an alternate way to do this game? Choose different races, some that arent in any other mmo(not cliched ala orc, elf, dwarf, human)?
I know that the world of Warhammer is supposed to be huge and I think with lots of realms and races. I also know that it would not be impossible to include them in the game but it would be a hard and difficult task to do so. I know game makers promise good things about a game and sometimes they don't actually accomplish them. I also know that while some don't accomplish those task when a game is released, they do so afterwards as an expansion for free or paying for one(its actually never free because you pay $15 for them to make it). I also know for a fact that no game has ever been release completely full of any kind of problem and the game only gets better after some time.
Also games are not all about rushing to the end and expecting there to be some amazing new experience. Its all about the journey. Do you think Frodo would be allowed to leave Middle Earth with the elfs in their boats at the end if it wasnt for that hell of a trip destroy the ring? IF it wasnt for that journey Gandalf would not have become super Gandalf the White, Aragorn would still be Striker, Gimli would still hate elfs, Boromir would still be alive, and Frodo would have used the eagles to fly over and drop the ring inside the lava.
Comments
WAR is a solid game, despite it's vocal detractors. I would like to see a 3rd or forth side. BUt that likely would have then be DAOC2
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Solid game, my arse..
I just resubbed out of boredom and 5 minutes later wished the fuck I hadn't bothered.
I managed to get to Tier 4 (lvl 32) and as I'm questing away on bugged pq's and trying to hand in completed quests to unresponsive NPC's, all I'm reading in region chat is ppl talking about bugs in keep capture..made me think what's the point?
There's more bugs in this game than a stinking corpse, so I don't know where the 'solid' factor came from.
Thought the game might settle down after a few patches, but no..They just releasing more desperate shite to try to keep people interested. It worked for a while but now I think people are seeing the polish wear off the turd.
RIP WARHAMMER..you suck.
I found WAR to be very shallow, repetative, and boring. It had a strong initial WOW factor that faded very quickly, and passed that I couldn't get myself to even log in. There wasn't anything new or exciting in it, and nothing that would make me want to play it over any other MMO that has been released.
It also had a very strong emphasis on a game feature that I can't stand, instanced PvP. The complete lack of death penalty also made it quite boring, as I really had no care to whether I won or lost, killed or got killed.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Easily fixed for my opinion....
I still VERY much enjoy WAR... play it every day and am NOT bored.
The games main sell point was ORVR and Mythic failed to deliver it in good quality so alot of pre release fan base jumped ship early. And now we're stuck with Warhammer TT players playing solely for the lore and alot of randoms buying game time after there initial tier1 impression (which is IMO the best orvr the game has to offer atm).
There's still a bit of hope if Mythic does some serious patching and reworking of the game, but only by this year. If they cant accomplish this before 2010 gets here then it's bye bye. And I honestly don't see them jumping off their high horse to admit they were wrong and fix these things. Egos are bad especially in this market.
I havent tried that game yet(will do starting summer) but could a boring or sameness factor that drives people away be having almost exact races to almost any other mmo out there?
Humans and Evil Humans(Chaos)
Dwarfs
Orcs/Goblins(almost the same thing)
Elfs/Dark Elfs
From reading a bit of wiki info about Warhammer I can tell there are LIzardmen, Undead, Beastmen, Skaven, Wood Elfs(I know another elf but could be different), Ogres.
Wikipedia doesnt list more, only sub cultures of more humans. It would have been great if they started out with some of this "rare ones" instead of the all mmo-fantasy classics. Shame really. Well gonna try to stop saying negative depressing comments about a game I still havent tried out. But keep replying, who knows the conversation might stop being about how the game is and how it could have been, hence my Alternate title.
The racial choices are not the problem. The game was released before it was ready. On top of all the normal issues one would expect from a new release mmo, the following also happened.
The network code suffers performance issues that made important gameplay mechanics break down. From casting spells to sizable pvp encounters. The game engine is just not responsive to player controls.
The reward system was completely untested. Mythic encouraged people to stay in small areas repeating instanced pvp scenarios over and over to gain levels.
Here are the four major features of the game broken down and their flaws in a quick rough summary.
The pve questing in the game is flat and rather boring. Much much better can be found in most other mmos right now.
The public quest system, while innovative, was also lacking fun factor after the newness wore off. Most were just boring grinds of kill 100 mobs, then 10, then a boss. Rinse repeat every 10 minutes.
The scenarios (battlegrounds) range from fun, to horrible. I enjoy them in moderation, but there was far to much emphasis on them and they are not long term content. For many areas of the game the same scenario would happen over and over and over which for many was the breaking point.
The open realm versus realm system never really came together. Keeps are almost identical no matter where you go, the actual "war" was convoluted and did not make sense. The system for who is winning was based on pve/pvp and all manners on nonsense and just flat out didn't work. It was really meaningless in the overall sense of the game, because the system was broken. For example it was more benefitial to let your enemy conquer the keeps you have, so that 15 minutes later your realm could return just to recapture it while undefended and this was the centerpiece of the game. A few people from closed beta said the keep warfare was added as a sort of last minute effort only because players were begging for it. That might explain why the system out of all the game seems to have been in the worst shape.
Technically most things worked in the game in a pure clincal sense of the meaning. Yet nothing worked. The game didn't gel, because it never underwent the phase of "is this fun" testing. Most of the game feels like it progressed to the "it functions" state of development and was put into game as is so the devlopers could work on something else that wasn't working.
This isn't to say that the game doesn't offer some fun. I'm sure plenty of people enjoy warhammer, but it has/had a lot of issues that really hold it back. Some can be fixed, but others are just to centralized to be fixed.
Easily fixed for my opinion....
I still VERY much enjoy WAR... play it every day and am NOT bored.
Fixed to compromise?
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I won't discount your opinion, because I can't argue that you fealt that way. I mean we all have our own feelings about games when we try them. But I'll offer my own opinion with yours.
I think all MMO's are shallow. They're all about leveling up, PvE, and/or PvP. Rarely do you see a MMORPG with a well developed social side, challenging gameplay, or game features that make you feel like you're in a virtual world, and not a game. So saying WAR is shallow to me doesn't hold any weight, since every MMO is shallow. WAR is repetative. You're doing any number of 4 things the entire time you're subscribed, regardless of level: Scenarios, Questing, PQ's, or RvR. You get new abilities every level, and a new look every 10 levels, but the gameplay is pretty much the same in each activity you choose to do. However, you can say that about any MMO. Take WoW for example, you can either quest or quest until max level. You can do BG after level 10, but they aren't a viable way to level. You can do 5 man dungeons as you level, but they too aren't a viable way to level. You can do Arena's or Raiding at max level, but they're repetative as well. So basically, WAR isn't really any more repetative than any other MMO. I don't have a rebuttal for boring, because we all find fun in different things. You may very well find WAR boring and there's nothing wrong with that. I on the other hand, find WAR to be about the most fun MMO out right now, because I can do any MMO type activity I want starting at level 1 and they'll all be viable for leveling and will all grant me loot rewards.
The only reason to try any MMO after the first generation batch of MMO's is to try features that have evolved, to include gameplay and graphics. WAR has evolved from last generations games through a variet of ways, which should be obvious. For some, that's a good reason to play WAR, and for others, they'd rather stick to the MMO they came from. There's nothing wrong with that.
WAR places a strong emphasis on RvR actually. You can see this emphasis by how rewarding it is and how much space is dedicated to it. At release, the game was very scenario oriented, but now it's pretty balanced between RvR and scenarios. Both are pretty active. I quit WAR the after my first month, because I didn't want to grind the instance PvP, but now every path (quests, rvr, scenarios, and pq's) is viable for leveling. So I split my time between RvRing, Scenarios, and PQ's.
You may have fealt nothing when you died, but it pisses me off. I may not have lost anything in game, but I waste money spending more time watching a respawn timer than I do actually PvPing when I die a lot. So there's plenty of incentive to not die in the game. The less time you spend waiting on a respawn timer (average about 20sec), the more you can contribute. The more you contribute, the more likely you are to get more xp and renown; not to mention your team is more likely to win. I think that's plenty of motivation. I don't need to lose loot in order to know that I shouldn't die. I don't need to lose xp to know that I hate running all the way back to the fight. But to each their own, and your playstyle is just as valid as mine.
Easily fixed for my opinion....
I still VERY much enjoy WAR... play it every day and am NOT bored.
Good point, it's all just subjective.
Major important difference for Mythic being, in their game out of 800k or so people near to 500k already left after 3 months, while for Blizzard it just kept growing since release.
For me the biggest faults with the game were it's terrible performance & serious lack of a meaty & involving end game structure.
Repeating the same old routine over & over got tired & old fast, the keeps were pretty much all cookie-cutter carbon copies of each other, forts were just bigger versions of keeps, & the variety of strategies you could use in a siege were far too limited & simplistic.
I never got to see a city siege personally, but from everything I have read & chatted to friends that stayed with the game long enough to see it, it was a major let down.
Considering the game had a 3 year development cycle I think they needed another 3 years, they needed a game engine that could actually deliver the big battles instead of the slideshows, & they needed a far more responsive game experience, the end game was crippled by lag, & for myself this was the thing that killed my initial passion for the game.
The PvE was incredibly weak, though the dungeons were I thought extremely well done there was just too few of them to give the game a PvE game of real worth, the RvR meeded a lot more work, it was fine to be the way it was in T1, T2 bu in T3 it should have gotten a little more complex & by T4 be very involved, with Battle objectives & open field objectives having far more relevance, the way that the domination system worked was not implimented well, it needed to have a system that only kicked in the domination system if there was an actual ratio of opposition online that could present an effective defence.
People logging in at regular times (meaning the 6pm - 11pm primetime window) were logging in to find they had the defend their city, or it was already 1/2 way through an attack, or worse...this led to too much demoralisation, how do you fight a war you have already lost?
A 3rd NPC controlled faction would have made a huge difference to this game, provided a way to balance out realm differences & provided an off-hours resistance to give the game some challenge when there were only a few of the opposing faction around.
The game still has a ton of potential, but I think that Mythic have wasted an opportunity here & it will take them a long time to develop this title into the game it should have been at launch, & I wonder if they'll ever get the engine running the big battles well, after 3 years & 6 months it still runs like a pig.
I won't discount your opinion, because I can't argue that you fealt that way. I mean we all have our own feelings about games when we try them. But I'll offer my own opinion with yours.
I think all MMO's are shallow. They're all about leveling up, PvE, and/or PvP. Rarely do you see a MMORPG with a well developed social side, challenging gameplay, or game features that make you feel like you're in a virtual world, and not a game. So saying WAR is shallow to me doesn't hold any weight, since every MMO is shallow. WAR is repetative. You're doing any number of 4 things the entire time you're subscribed, regardless of level: Scenarios, Questing, PQ's, or RvR. You get new abilities every level, and a new look every 10 levels, but the gameplay is pretty much the same in each activity you choose to do. However, you can say that about any MMO. Take WoW for example, you can either quest or quest until max level. You can do BG after level 10, but they aren't a viable way to level. You can do 5 man dungeons as you level, but they too aren't a viable way to level. You can do Arena's or Raiding at max level, but they're repetative as well. So basically, WAR isn't really any more repetative than any other MMO. I don't have a rebuttal for boring, because we all find fun in different things. You may very well find WAR boring and there's nothing wrong with that. I on the other hand, find WAR to be about the most fun MMO out right now, because I can do any MMO type activity I want starting at level 1 and they'll all be viable for leveling and will all grant me loot rewards.
The only reason to try any MMO after the first generation batch of MMO's is to try features that have evolved, to include gameplay and graphics. WAR has evolved from last generations games through a variet of ways, which should be obvious. For some, that's a good reason to play WAR, and for others, they'd rather stick to the MMO they came from. There's nothing wrong with that.
WAR places a strong emphasis on RvR actually. You can see this emphasis by how rewarding it is and how much space is dedicated to it. At release, the game was very scenario oriented, but now it's pretty balanced between RvR and scenarios. Both are pretty active. I quit WAR the after my first month, because I didn't want to grind the instance PvP, but now every path (quests, rvr, scenarios, and pq's) is viable for leveling. So I split my time between RvRing, Scenarios, and PQ's.
You may have fealt nothing when you died, but it pisses me off. I may not have lost anything in game, but I waste money spending more time watching a respawn timer than I do actually PvPing when I die a lot. So there's plenty of incentive to not die in the game. The less time you spend waiting on a respawn timer (average about 20sec), the more you can contribute. The more you contribute, the more likely you are to get more xp and renown; not to mention your team is more likely to win. I think that's plenty of motivation. I don't need to lose loot in order to know that I shouldn't die. I don't need to lose xp to know that I hate running all the way back to the fight. But to each their own, and your playstyle is just as valid as mine.
I am impressed by your very mature response and rebuttal. Some of the things you mention in your post about WAR have changed since the last time I played it, but I don't think it is enough change for me to ever try playing it again. I'll emphasize my response on the part of your post in blue.
My biggest issue is that MMOs weren't always as shallow, repetitive, and boring as they are now, they really became that way. I will admit, my opinion is very biased because I feel I was spoiled with my first MMO, which gives me a tainted view on all of the newer MMOs that seem to be lacking in so many places that my first MMO, SWG, shined. While SWG did have a repetitive grind to it, and far too many bugs to count, it had an emmense social side to it, along with almost complete freedom to do whatever you wished. I found it incredibly immersive from a virtual world perspective. While playing that game, I felt like I was living in a virtual world, not just passing through an online game. This previous experience, and my inability to continue it, has left me searching for such aspects in other MMOs, and thus far finding said features to be missing. This yearning for what I'm lacking makes me very judgemental on newer games, and easily dissapointed. So while many people who have never experienced more to an MMO may find WAR to be an exceptional game, my previous experiences have made WAR seem as I described it above.
But I am glad that you are enjoying the game.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
They missed the ball at release, by making instanced PVP aka battlegrounds aka scenarios too important.
The PvE was not so great, but not that bad either, the problem was, as I had predicted, that the instanced PVP gave you the fastest wat to level. So everyone was grinding instanced battlegrounds over and over, and not just that, people were doing the same battleground ( out of the dozens ), so people got bored and quit.
However, what I have been seeing in the patch notes is very very nice, and with all the improvements on RVR I am inclined to come back to give it another chance.
Since DAoC is officially dead ( for me realm hopping killed it ), there is no real alternative if you like RVR.
It is incredible what amount of content and improvements Mythic crammed into the game since release ( I got this both from reading and from RL friends that still play ).
With the server transfers there alot of good populated servers, as a matter of fact, I am gonna resub right now
greetz
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
I won't discount your opinion, because I can't argue that you fealt that way. I mean we all have our own feelings about games when we try them. But I'll offer my own opinion with yours.
I think all MMO's are shallow. They're all about leveling up, PvE, and/or PvP. Rarely do you see a MMORPG with a well developed social side, challenging gameplay, or game features that make you feel like you're in a virtual world, and not a game. So saying WAR is shallow to me doesn't hold any weight, since every MMO is shallow. WAR is repetative. You're doing any number of 4 things the entire time you're subscribed, regardless of level: Scenarios, Questing, PQ's, or RvR. You get new abilities every level, and a new look every 10 levels, but the gameplay is pretty much the same in each activity you choose to do. However, you can say that about any MMO. Take WoW for example, you can either quest or quest until max level. You can do BG after level 10, but they aren't a viable way to level. You can do 5 man dungeons as you level, but they too aren't a viable way to level. You can do Arena's or Raiding at max level, but they're repetative as well. So basically, WAR isn't really any more repetative than any other MMO. I don't have a rebuttal for boring, because we all find fun in different things. You may very well find WAR boring and there's nothing wrong with that. I on the other hand, find WAR to be about the most fun MMO out right now, because I can do any MMO type activity I want starting at level 1 and they'll all be viable for leveling and will all grant me loot rewards.
The only reason to try any MMO after the first generation batch of MMO's is to try features that have evolved, to include gameplay and graphics. WAR has evolved from last generations games through a variet of ways, which should be obvious. For some, that's a good reason to play WAR, and for others, they'd rather stick to the MMO they came from. There's nothing wrong with that.
WAR places a strong emphasis on RvR actually. You can see this emphasis by how rewarding it is and how much space is dedicated to it. At release, the game was very scenario oriented, but now it's pretty balanced between RvR and scenarios. Both are pretty active. I quit WAR the after my first month, because I didn't want to grind the instance PvP, but now every path (quests, rvr, scenarios, and pq's) is viable for leveling. So I split my time between RvRing, Scenarios, and PQ's.
You may have fealt nothing when you died, but it pisses me off. I may not have lost anything in game, but I waste money spending more time watching a respawn timer than I do actually PvPing when I die a lot. So there's plenty of incentive to not die in the game. The less time you spend waiting on a respawn timer (average about 20sec), the more you can contribute. The more you contribute, the more likely you are to get more xp and renown; not to mention your team is more likely to win. I think that's plenty of motivation. I don't need to lose loot in order to know that I shouldn't die. I don't need to lose xp to know that I hate running all the way back to the fight. But to each their own, and your playstyle is just as valid as mine.
I am impressed by your very mature response and rebuttal. Some of the things you mention in your post about WAR have changed since the last time I played it, but I don't think it is enough change for me to ever try playing it again. I'll emphasize my response on the part of your post in blue.
My biggest issue is that MMOs weren't always as shallow, repetitive, and boring as they are now, they really became that way. I will admit, my opinion is very biased because I feel I was spoiled with my first MMO, which gives me a tainted view on all of the newer MMOs that seem to be lacking in so many places that my first MMO, SWG, shined. While SWG did have a repetitive grind to it, and far too many bugs to count, it had an emmense social side to it, along with almost complete freedom to do whatever you wished. I found it incredibly immersive from a virtual world perspective. While playing that game, I felt like I was living in a virtual world, not just passing through an online game. This previous experience, and my inability to continue it, has left me searching for such aspects in other MMOs, and thus far finding said features to be missing. This yearning for what I'm lacking makes me very judgemental on newer games, and easily dissapointed. So while many people who have never experienced more to an MMO may find WAR to be an exceptional game, my previous experiences have made WAR seem as I described it above.
But I am glad that you are enjoying the game.
Yeah, from reading your sig, I know you've learned through experience that SWG was a fluke and a game like that isn't likely to happen again for quite some time. I have hope for Fallen Earth, but we'll see. Even the early games, such as DAoC and EQ were highly repetative games, it just varied in their repetivenes. I ended up quitting after finally getting to lvl 50 in DAoC, because the RvR was repetative. I ended up going to SWG after that, making SWG my second MMO played. SWG of course had it's own major flaws, but the social aspect and sandbox features is what made that game so enjoyable even through the bugs and major problems.
What's funny is that I cannot even recommend WAR to most people, because even though I like it, I've played almost every MMORPG out there and I can honestly say that WAR will not appeal to the masses. For one, you die a lot and most people hate dying. Now compound that with people laughing at you when you die, some classes/people steamrolling you all the time, and a lack of active population on the PvE side of the game, and you have a game that most people will love to hate. I mean hell, even I get seriously pissed off after a scenario where I've died a lot due to other peoples lack of skill or ability to think strategically or work together. I'll be the first to bash the way Mythic balances their classes, but for some odd reason I like the game. I like being able to PvP whenever I want without fear of facing twinked out players, and without the heavy pressure associated with playing with the hardcore crowd. I like being able to log in and log out of the game without feeling guilty about leaving a group that spent an hour to form. In WoW, the game I left prior to retrying WAR, even the 5 man instances could take a few hours with an unoptimized group with less than great players. That's 2-3 hours spent in front of a computer without taking a reasonable break. Now back in my DAoC and SWG days, 3 hours was nothing. Hell, I'd spend 6+ hours w/o blinking because I was hooked. But now I'm used to MMO's and they really aren't that interesting to keep me hooked for hours on end. Now the thought of playing 2-3 hours in a row without feeling like I can log off during that time is daunting.
Take WoW raiding for example. I loved the look of Northrend and the sound of the Death Knight class. So I resubbed to a game that I never liked enough to play past my first month, to grind to 55 quickly, so that I can create a DK when WoTLK released. Well, I actually had fun with the 3.0 patch changes and got a Hunter to 55, which I liked, and then my DK to 80. I was excited to do the 5 mans, the Heroics, and then the raids. I was even decked out in T7 gear by the end of January...months before Ulduar was even released. But that experience taught me something...I cannot sainly commit to a group that wants to sit in front of the computer 4 hours for a raid, even if it is only once a week. I like the freedom to come and go when I want, which is different from how I played when DAoC and SWG were good. Now I enjoy logging into WAR with complete control over my playtimes, since the open group system makes it the norm to join and drop group without any guilt at all. This is because finding and forming groups for the activities I take part in are easy and common enough that I won't be missed.
MysticShaman, I thought I was the only one. Mmorpg.com forums are so filled with angry haters. I have fun playing it every time. I have 0 lag and 0 performance issues. Maybe I'm just super super lucky?
Waaagh!
First threat I've read in a while where people are giving mature responses. Kudos for intelligence.
The only thing to blame is WoW, WoW is the model of all future mmorpgs because it has 12 million subscribers. You guys should of known when WAR released the cinematic trailers that it was trying to directly compete with WoW. What should be learned here is that you can never compete with WoW and developers are going to have to try different things that are outside the WoW formula. Whatever Blizzard wants to add to WoW they will and they would be able to do it better than anyone else because they are making over 180 million dollars per month from WoW subscriptions. The highest budget game in history was GTA4 which costed 100 million to create, therefor Blizzard makes enough money from one month of subscription fees to fund the amount of resources it took to make a game like gta4. Which means it would be impossible to compete with WoW. Therefore, if you try to compete aka WAR, you will get tossed under the carpet. Money = Developers = Content, More Money = More Developers = More Content.
lmao
Well said. Like so many here, we want a new formula. I look forward to the new Star Wars and hope that it has some fundemental differences. If any franchise is big enough to take down the WoW empire, it's the Star Wars empire and all it's toys, movies, playing cards, and huge huge huge fanbase world-wide with a huge range in age.
Right now the MMO industry is in a kind of "Writers Block". Many new games are coming with interesting twists to existing features and new features to differentiate them from the rest. However, I have the impression makers are afraid of being revolutionaries in the industry. They see it as a hit or miss kind of revolution. They are simply making the game with the mindset of "Stealing World of Warcraft success". You just can't make a game thinking like that, its like taking a very hard exam but never having any hope of passing it, you will fail it miserably if you think that way.
WAR had that mindset, they just wanted the title of Warcraft killer.
War also is an inspiration for others, it expanded on the idea of PVP and took it to the next level, Realm vs Realm. I know another game already had it but I don't think many people know about it or would play it. Did War fail to deliver? No.
They just didn't took the time to properly test out the features that would be the backbone, the foundation of what Warhammer was. With proper time they will have it done how they envisioned it. Gamers, WE, need to understand that game making is not something "so easy a caveman can do it". There is making the list of what to fix, perhaps a brainstorming session where they decide the direction of new things to add, coding the new things and coding the fixes, creating the new things(graphical and texture), balancing on the new additions and fixes to the rest of the game, playtesting it maybe with a list of what to look for and then perhaps play testing it as gamers, then releasing it.
It would be great if we could understand that. Ideas also get trashed, canned, put on hold, etc. There may be many reasons for such measures, money, time, man power, not in "line" with the theme, etc.
Well I also think that after making a game all the developers want is a little thank you, just plain old thank you from us. No bitching because there was something missing or some errors. Just say thank you.
“Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot.”
The Hausa of Nigeria
This turn into a sermon but it how I feel about any and all mmo issues. I just take what tools they gave me and I create my own masterpiece. I hope nobody will feel insulted by this post or will take it as offensive in any way, that wasnt my intention, I tried to post something that went with the flow of how the topic is going.
I am not surprised that people find WAR shallow. I mean, what did you expect from a MMO based on a tabletop war-games? I found WAR to be shallow, but also found it to be very claustrophobic and that is not how I picture Warhammer.
How an alternative WAR should be like:
1. Base it off the role-playing game!
2. Start off by making a detailed, open and in-depth map “world” of the Empire. Include all the major cities, like; Middenheim, Aldorf, Nuln, Mordheim etc.
3. Include races like; (good guys) Human, Wood Elves, Dwarfs, Halflings and Ogres. (bad guys) Vampires, Skaven, Orcs and Chaos. (all these races can be placed inside the land of the Empire)
4. Setting. War? Find RvR (PvP) everywhere (no instanced PvP); at the war camps, by a farm outside Bôgenhafen, fight Skaven players inside the walls of Aldorf! PvE: The leaders of the Empire has gone out to war, their Empire is in dismay! Help Merchant guilds recover lost trading routs along the river Reik, the sewers of Middenheim are infested by rats – investigate its source, Help the Baron of Ûbersriek recover his lost daughter from the castle of Drachenfels... the PvE plots are endless! ... And fill some areas with group monsters, example; the Northern Wastes with Trolls, for some good ol’ fashion group xp hunting.
5. Skill Based. I am not a “must-have skill based system” man, but I think it would suit Warhammer better than level based. Mostly because the RPG isn’t level based. In addition to being skill based, it should have professions, like; rat-catcher, barber, Lawyer, Tomb-Robber, Wizard’s Apprentice, Witch Hunter etc. These should give the players small perks, attack skills, skills, stat bonuses and one can change profession as often as you like. A character with an advance progression like this: Rat-Catcher – Tomb Robber – Soldier – Witch Hunter, would not be the same as: Rat-Catcher – Bodyguard – Soldier – Witch Hunter. Basically, the same system as the RPG suited for a MMO.
6. A whole new crafting system. The dude, who is responsible for developing the WAR crafting system, should never be in-charge of developing anything ever again...ever! This could be tied into the profession system.
7. Release Expansion packs, like; Border Princes, Bretonnia, Kislev, Norsca and Albion. Don’t be tempted to include faraway lands like: Ulthucan, Naggaroth, Cathay or Lustria. Concentrate on what’s under your hand lens, make it in-depth and detailed.
Every time I hear people complaing saying "WAR Suxz!" or "WAR iz shiet" it's always the same reasons. Either it's not what they were expecting, or there's some bug in the game that seems to have their name on it that keeps them from playing. Honestly, Im getting tired of hearing it.
I didnt expect that everyone would like WAR when it came out. Hell, I knew it wouldnt be for alot of people. But it is for me. I enjoy WAR because it's not just a rehash of WoW or some other overly popular MMO. I enjoy how the war is in your face, and everything revolves around it. I like that there's no piddley quests that have nothing to do with the main focus of the game. Nothing is thrown in for it's 'cute factor' or as nothing but a pop-culture reference. It's dark. It's dank. It's violent. I knew going in that this wouldnt be just a copy of WoW, and that there would be alot of things diffirent. And I was hopeing for that. People say that WAR is repeditive. And running the same dungeon 4 times a week to get your armor token isnt? WoW was repeditive as hell. All that changed was the dungeon, and even then it was only a slight change. Questing was pointless cause aside from getting cash, most of the rewards you couldnt use or the quests just ended up leading you right into the same dungeons. PvP was a joke, just straight up, a joke. What I'd like to know is, if these people think WAR is repeditive, when what wouldnt be repeditive? Raid dungeons to do when not PvPing? Um, it already has those. Special events? It's had several already. Repetable quests? It's got like a hundred of them from day one.
And as for bugs, all I have to tell people about these is a big, fat 'DUH'. ANY game that just comes out will have bugs. Exspecialy an MMO. Compaired to several other MMOs on the market, WAR had fewer bugs on release than the majority of other MMOs. And they have been working to fix them. Honestly though, I started playing a little less than a month after release (had to upgrade my computer), and I have yet to encounter a bug that I would consider 'game breaking'. Yes, I have found several bugs since then, most all of them minor bugs, or exploits that had managed to slip past the playtesters. And so far, about all of them have been fixed. And you have to keep in mind, with an MMO, a bug list isnt a static list you can work your way though then call it finished. People are always running into new bugs that would never show up in the company's playtesting due to limited players or limited time. Not to mention that every new patch, every new feature added, will almost always come with it's own set of bugs that will need to be hammered out as they're found. Sure, you could actualy produce a 100% bug free MMO, but it would take a year or so after release to remove all bugs and there would never be any new content.
What happened to WAR was that it wasnt DAoC2....it seems like alot of people were just looking for DAoC all over again but with prettier graphics........
Well, thank God you can grind your tokens for armor now in Warhammer just like you do in WoW after the last patch. Hooray for innovation!
As Charlie says:
"Imitation is the sincerest of flattery."
Charles Caleb Colton, Lacon, volume I, no. 183
(1780 - 1832)
"TO MICHAEL!"
I thought he was talking about WAR before i saw the mention of "token". If you take out that single word, doesn't it apply the same to WAR and farming for Ward gear?