Too early for F2P. They are releasing alot more content lately aswell. its a long stretch til MMorpg release season, maybe they can pick up some subcriptions this summer.
Everyone relax, I'm not trying to troll or anything. I think this is a legimate question. Right now Age of Conan has about 100k subscriptions which is much less than what anyone expected. Even though trials have improved the population, there hasn't been any kind of "population boom" that AoC so desperately needs. If "win-back-program" also fails, AoC might be in big big trouble. My easy solution is: make AoC Free-To-Play. You can already buy AoC Collector's Edition for less than 10 bucks, maybe even cheaper. So why not make it free? Sure you will lose monthly subscription fees but Funcom could get money by some other way. Now I don't want to see any advertising billboards all around Khessatta, but maybe they could sell some ad space in loading screen? I wouldn't mind that. Also a cash shop could work. I don't personally use them but some people do. I think this monthly subscription system MMO's have today is really dumb. Funcom is in a good position to do something revolutionary - A free AAA MMO. This would attract tons of new players and could possibly get AoC back to top-10. What are your thoughts?
I refuse to play any game with a cash shop in it. It restricts the game for rich people. I am thinking of trying AoC but if they go cash shop I will never play it. Cash shops are wrong.
Cash shops are neither right nor wrong, they are simply an alternate payment model. Some of us who can afford them think they are great fun. Plenty of room for players of all persuasions I think.
But I think taking a P2P game and converting to a F2P/cash shop model is wrong and it should not be done to AOC. Yeah, I know they did it for AOC, but I don't think with any great success.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
i ll be interested in seeing what happens with aoc now theres a free trial . i hated this game with a vengance when it came out but now i actually am having fun in it . on top of that i ve managed to get the game very cheaply and two 60 day time cards on ebay for less than half the price of an average monthly fee . the game seams pretty busy to me . i heard reports you could play on a server and not see anyone . i dont know if that was once true but its certainly not now . also the games what it really should of been on release . sadly its another mmo that was damaged by being made available too soon . its actually at present the best alternative to warcraft at the moment if you like a pvp fantasy title .
the game seams pretty busy to me . i heard reports you could play on a server and not see anyone .
From what I've read, that's the PvP servers. The pvp in the game isn't regarded as good as other games so very few people play on those. But it's said the other PvE ones are busy. Since the endgame is reserved for PvP anyway, you probably won't miss too much pvp wise until then when you can have those guild city vs guild city battles.
It's a reasonable question, but really would be unethical... at least from my viewpoint. But hey, who knows? Funcom is known to make some brash, idiotic decisions (and yes, I'm saying this as a current subscriber and fan of the game).
You have to think about the current subscribers (albeit a small amount, probably a little over 100k, maybe even 200k but that's certainly pushing max). How do you think it would effect their current market if they instantly switched to some different form of payment? It's like if Comcast decided to completely change the monthly cost of your cable television program to a "pay-as-you-go" program... you can watch whatever TV you like, but each time you turn it on, it costs you a dollar each time. Sure, you may gain a certain group of people this way, but you'll also lose a good amount who preferred the regular monthly fees.
Revenue for a free-to-play game, even with only a little over 100k subs, does not amount to the same thing as regular subs from that group of people. The people attracted towards F2P games are a different target audience than people who pay monthly subs. The game is designed around P2P... to understand this would take a while for me to explain, but game companies do actually create around what type of revenue they plan on recieving from their product (if not being the biggest factor towards design). To change from one form of billing to another for an MMO (while very rare) has only led to disaster... I can't think of a single MMO that has beneffited from this type of move.
Not really bashing the OP, just the OP's idea. It would simply be unethical and unneeded for this game. I would rant about how it is just another person wanting to play something for free (jackals if you ask me), but this poster doesn't seem to be just some random player just wanting a piece of the pie without giving their own part of the slice.
I think that could work for AoC to up the people playing. You don't even need to have a full out cash shop really. I mean that philosophy works for Guild Wars, and I think, personally Guild Wars offers a lot more than AoC at the moment.
Make money off of selling expansions and such.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Originally posted by Douhk Revenue for a free-to-play game, even with only a little over 100k subs, does not amount to the same thing as regular subs from that group of people. The people attracted towards F2P games are a different target audience than people who pay monthly subs. The game is designed around P2P... to understand this would take a while for me to explain, but game companies do actually create around what type of revenue they plan on recieving from their product (if not being the biggest factor towards design). To change from one form of billing to another for an MMO (while very rare) has only led to disaster... I can't think of a single MMO that has beneffited from this type of move.
I don't know if ever lasting free trial of certain part of game is this kind of move even if it is drastic. But, AO wouldn't be alive if FC didn't do it. It was a very good marketing tool and likely majority of current day PAYING players were gained by it, and wouldn't ever had played game or started to play without it. Still it only was move from completly payed to combined free and payed.
Well perhaps that would be good enough for some people, but I'm willing to bet more would consider a 7 day trial utter crap. 7 days is enough to get to 20-30 if you know what to do and where to go to gain xp, and if you do little else but grind out xp. If that's a good way to evaluate a game in your opinion, bully for you. However, if one wanted to explore a bit, go through the starting area at a relaxed pace, and in general try to experience the game, 7 days is pretty short. IMO, when most games that offer trials give at least 14 days, 7 days says to me that they don't have the confidence in their product to give a 14 day trial. Tortage is possibly the most polished area of the game, and if they were to let people wander it freely at whatever pace they choose I think they would not only boost subs but send a message to buyers that says they are confident in the product they are offereing.
Actualy, the trial is 14 days if u register at fileplanet, and 14 days is pretty good enough, hell, for me even one week was enough to build an opinion of the game.
i think the trial was a step in right direction, not that they had much choice, don't know of any MMO that does not offer a trial, except guildwars maybe.
Everyone relax, I'm not trying to troll or anything. I think this is a legimate question. Right now Age of Conan has about 100k subscriptions which is much less than what anyone expected. Even though trials have improved the population, there hasn't been any kind of "population boom" that AoC so desperately needs. If "win-back-program" also fails, AoC might be in big big trouble. My easy solution is: make AoC Free-To-Play.
What are your thoughts?
Well, even though i have some major issues with A0C after playing the trial, i think making it free to play would be a big mistake, simply because it will lower the quality of the game and it's community.
I have played a couple of free to play games, most recently ArchLord, these games do make money but their main avenue of making cash is by introducing some sever inbalances in the game, which will puch the gamers to buy items for Real Money from game shops to be able to compete, item like potions which will make u godlike, exp modifiers, resis enhancers, Uber healing potions etc.
this is disastoures for a PvP game, in archlord, a lot of times the deciding factor in a PvP fight is who has more money to buy the better health potion, resist capes, defence potions, offence potions, speed potions, etc. This will appeal to certain people, but most people won't want this and won't want to play in a game that caters for such people.
Another factor is ofcourse all the 12 year old kids which will flood into the game, specialy as this game advertises mature content( something which i realy don't get, some blood on the screen and resizable boobs is mature content??? but that is another discussion)
This will in fact greatly effect the maturity of the gamer community in this game, from my experince, it's not always a good thing (not that 20-30 years old are mature, considering how many people choose female chars with big boobs in AoC i have serious doubts about peoples maturity, LOL), but anyways, not a good road to go , IMO
I think that could work for AoC to up the people playing. You don't even need to have a full out cash shop really. I mean that philosophy works for Guild Wars, and I think, personally Guild Wars offers a lot more than AoC at the moment.
Make money off of selling expansions and such.
Isn't that way of running a game used more often in Asia? By allowing people to buy special items ingame or even items ingame with real money. At least a few of the games there I think have a businiess model like that. not 100% sure tho. a while since I read about that.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC) On my radar: TSW, MO MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
Revenue for a free-to-play game, even with only a little over 100k subs, does not amount to the same thing as regular subs from that group of people. The people attracted towards F2P games are a different target audience than people who pay monthly subs. The game is designed around P2P... to understand this would take a while for me to explain, but game companies do actually create around what type of revenue they plan on recieving from their product (if not being the biggest factor towards design). To change from one form of billing to another for an MMO (while very rare) has only led to disaster... I can't think of a single MMO that has beneffited from this type of move.
Well, i have seen games that gone from p2p to f2p and managed to survive(namely ArchLord) however, the game has some serious problems when it comes to PvP balance, i have talked to people in game who spend 100$ a moth(not a typo) on cash items, to have that godlike feeling, and of course gold sellers have a field day in that game, the game economy is in ridiculous state(some unique overpowered items cost near 1 billion gold, killing a mob gives u 100 gold in mid lvls, by comparison), so the game is in serious trouble, but yeah, it survives and apparenly is making a profit
Isn't that way of running a game used more often in Asia? By allowing people to buy special items ingame or even items ingame with real money. At least a few of the games there I think have a businiess model like that. not 100% sure tho. a while since I read about that.
Correct, a lot of asian games, specialy in china and korea use that model, and they are making good money, however the games are really sc**ed up from a balance point of view, they have to be, why else would you spend real money in a free games cash shop???
See my post about ArchLord(a korean game, release in west by CodeMasters)
Isn't that way of running a game used more often in Asia? By allowing people to buy special items ingame or even items ingame with real money. At least a few of the games there I think have a businiess model like that. not 100% sure tho. a while since I read about that.
Correct, a lot of asian games, specialy in china and korea use that model, and they are making good money, however the games are really sc**ed up from a balance point of view, they have to be, why else would you spend real money in a free games cash shop???
See my post about ArchLord(a korean game, release in west by CodeMasters)
That is indeed the downside with F2P to keep the game running they do need funds, and money isn't coming by magic. So allowing people to buy weapon and armors will disrupt the balance since the ones who cannot afford to spend money on having the best gear will be behind the rest. Also having stuff for sale that doesn't benefit the players buying it will only lead to no people bothering to get it.
it's a thing that isn't easy solved balance wise
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC) On my radar: TSW, MO MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
Isn't that way of running a game used more often in Asia? By allowing people to buy special items ingame or even items ingame with real money. At least a few of the games there I think have a businiess model like that. not 100% sure tho. a while since I read about that.
Correct, a lot of asian games, specialy in china and korea use that model, and they are making good money, however the games are really sc**ed up from a balance point of view, they have to be, why else would you spend real money in a free games cash shop???
See my post about ArchLord(a korean game, release in west by CodeMasters)
That is indeed the downside with F2P to keep the game running they do need funds, and money isn't coming by magic. So allowing people to buy weapon and armors will disrupt the balance since the ones who cannot afford to spend money on having the best gear will be behind the rest. Also having stuff for sale that doesn't benefit the players buying it will only lead to no people bothering to get it.
it's a thing that isn't easy solved balance wise
yes, that is why i prefer a p2p game. the idea of a free 2 play game is tempting, who does not want to have fun for free?? BUT there is never a free lunch in this world, never ever! You have to pay somewhere, somehow
That is indeed the downside with F2P to keep the game running they do need funds, and money isn't coming by magic. So allowing people to buy weapon and armors will disrupt the balance since the ones who cannot afford to spend money on having the best gear will be behind the rest. Also having stuff for sale that doesn't benefit the players buying it will only lead to no people bothering to get it.
it's a thing that isn't easy solved balance wise
How do you think you can watch TV for free? Magic? No. It's called advertising. Look it up.
Many people on this forum seem to completely lack vision. They only talk about what kind of MMO business models we have today and think that those business models will stay until the end of time. World is changing. And so is the world of MMO's. F2P have been mostly crap but once we start seeing F2P MMOs' that are as good as the P2P ones, we might see a revolution in MMO business.
I think at the moment Guild Wars has the best system. You only pay for the game itself and expansions, there are no monthly fees.
Technically speaking, by todays current definition, this game is F2P (it has a free trial available in unlimited amounts). I believe the question actually being asked is about them investigating alternative methods of income, in order to sustain the game.
Microtransactions (aka Item Mall, or Cash Shop) are a good way to add additional revenue to a game. In fact, they can be ADDED to an already existing business model (including subscriptions) to increase the revenue, without ever actaully increasing the user base.
Bottom line, if this game is not making enough money to keep afloat, then they will need to do something to change this, or the game will go under. In business a games sucess is not measured by the number of players, but by its profit/loss.
Technically speaking, by todays current definition, this game is F2P (it has a free trial available in unlimited amounts). I believe the question actually being asked is about them investigating alternative methods of income, in order to sustain the game. Microtransactions (aka Item Mall, or Cash Shop) are a good way to add additional revenue to a game. In fact, they can be ADDED to an already existing business model (including subscriptions) to increase the revenue, without ever actaully increasing the user base. Bottom line, if this game is not making enough money to keep afloat, then they will need to do something to change this, or the game will go under. In business a games sucess is not measured by the number of players, but by its profit/loss.
With 100k subs they still get 1,5million bruto income a month.
SOE has MMO's running with far less subscriber numbers.
CodeMasters has MMO's running with far less subscriber numbers (like DDO for example).
Or how about GOA as European provider for WAR. They aren't doing better then AoC. They are still running too.
RMT and Micro Transactions are a plague to the MMO genre. Paying a monthly fee is more then enough.
That is indeed the downside with F2P to keep the game running they do need funds, and money isn't coming by magic. So allowing people to buy weapon and armors will disrupt the balance since the ones who cannot afford to spend money on having the best gear will be behind the rest. Also having stuff for sale that doesn't benefit the players buying it will only lead to no people bothering to get it.
it's a thing that isn't easy solved balance wise
How do you think you can watch TV for free? Magic? No. It's called advertising. Look it up.
Many people on this forum seem to completely lack vision. They only talk about what kind of MMO business models we have today and think that those business models will stay until the end of time. World is changing. And so is the world of MMO's. F2P have been mostly crap but once we start seeing F2P MMOs' that are as good as the P2P ones, we might see a revolution in MMO business.
I think at the moment Guild Wars has the best system. You only pay for the game itself and expansions, there are no monthly fees.
How do you think you can watch TV for free? Magic? No. It's called advertising. Look it up. Many people on this forum seem to completely lack vision. They only talk about what kind of MMO business models we have today and think that those business models will stay until the end of time. World is changing. And so is the world of MMO's. F2P have been mostly crap but once we start seeing F2P MMOs' that are as good as the P2P ones, we might see a revolution in MMO business. I think at the moment Guild Wars has the best system. You only pay for the game itself and expansions, there are no monthly fees.
Actualy, different models of f2p have been tried, only guild wars model has had any success and managed the keep the game quality at the same time.
I played a game called Shadowbane once, a FFA PvP game, which went f2p after it failed to attract enough subscribers to sustain it, game was very harsh and brutal(the PvP was way more brutal than AoC), but quite fun because of sieges and nation wars, they managed to keep it going for 4 years i think.
To their credit, they never tried the cash shop idea, and tried to keep the game balanced. they tried a number of different ideas, including the advertisement which never really worked. It alienated peopel a lot, and eventualy they droped it
So far, no one has come up with a good idea to maintain a balanced game of good quality which costs the players nothing to play(You do have to buy the guild wars. so i realy don't consider it f2p, just another way of p2p, although a cheap and interesting one)
How do you think you can watch TV for free? Magic? No. It's called advertising. Look it up. Many people on this forum seem to completely lack vision. They only talk about what kind of MMO business models we have today and think that those business models will stay until the end of time. World is changing. And so is the world of MMO's. F2P have been mostly crap but once we start seeing F2P MMOs' that are as good as the P2P ones, we might see a revolution in MMO business. I think at the moment Guild Wars has the best system. You only pay for the game itself and expansions, there are no monthly fees.
Actualy, different models of f2p have been tried, only guild wars model has had any success and managed the keep the game quality at the same time.
I played a game called Shadowbane once, a FFA PvP game, which went f2p after it failed to attract enough subscribers to sustain it, game was very harsh and brutal(the PvP was way more brutal than AoC), but quite fun because of sieges and nation wars, they managed to keep it going for 4 years i think.
To their credit, they never tried the cash shop idea, and tried to keep the game balanced. they tried a number of different ideas, including the advertisement which never really worked. It alienated peopel a lot, and eventualy they droped it
So far, no one has come up with a good idea to maintain a balanced game of good quality which costs the players nothing to play(You do have to buy the guild wars. so i realy don't consider it f2p, just another way of p2p, although a cheap and interesting one)
Thomas Edison failed thousands of times before inventing the light bulb.
Perfect F2P business model has not been found yet but that doesn't mean it will never be found. I think it would be a good thing for Age of Conan.
I refuse to play any game with a cash shop in it. It restricts the game for rich people. I am thinking of trying AoC but if they go cash shop I will never play it. Cash shops are wrong.
Cash shops are neither right nor wrong, they are simply an alternate payment model. Some of us who can afford them think they are great fun. Plenty of room for players of all persuasions I think.
But I think taking a P2P game and converting to a F2P/cash shop model is wrong and it should not be done to AOC. Yeah, I know they did it for AOC, but I don't think with any great success.
A cash shop in a PvE game, I agree, is just an alternate payment model. It doesn't affect me if you buy something I quest for. HOWEVER...a cash shop in a PvP game is cheating, pure and simple. If you can buy your way to victory over a poorer player, it is inherently unfair, and THAT I will neither play nor support.
100,000 Subscriber it's actually quite good.SUre it's not like WoW . But WoW subs is inflated by the 6 millions chinese paying 2 cent an hours and the thousand of *farm* business playing.Kinda like how daoc sub was inflated by buffbot account.
Plus getting to level 20 take basicly 6 hours if you don't read every quest.PPl who want to play for free are simply Hypocrite that love the game but are to cheao to pay a monthly fee.Stay outside,we don't need you.
That is indeed the downside with F2P to keep the game running they do need funds, and money isn't coming by magic. So allowing people to buy weapon and armors will disrupt the balance since the ones who cannot afford to spend money on having the best gear will be behind the rest. Also having stuff for sale that doesn't benefit the players buying it will only lead to no people bothering to get it.
it's a thing that isn't easy solved balance wise
How do you think you can watch TV for free? Magic? No. It's called advertising. Look it up.
Many people on this forum seem to completely lack vision. They only talk about what kind of MMO business models we have today and think that those business models will stay until the end of time. World is changing. And so is the world of MMO's. F2P have been mostly crap but once we start seeing F2P MMOs' that are as good as the P2P ones, we might see a revolution in MMO business.
I think at the moment Guild Wars has the best system. You only pay for the game itself and expansions, there are no monthly fees.
Keep in mind one thing and we do agree on this matter, Advertising is both good and bad. EA tried it with BF2142 and they got a massive protest against it. EA found out that it isn't popular amongst gamers to see advertising. But they need to get the money from some where, Guild wars model does work, never played it myself so not sure how often they update the game with more content bug fixes etc.
It could quite possibly work for AoC too, but it depends what tyoe of server s are needed and what are the maintenance costs compared to say AoC and GW. CS:S is F2P simply because the servers are being hosted by companies or other players so Valve has no expenses on them. Different games might require different technology to run and that can be the one thing that defines if it can be f2p or not.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC) On my radar: TSW, MO MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
Comments
Too early for F2P. They are releasing alot more content lately aswell. its a long stretch til MMorpg release season, maybe they can pick up some subcriptions this summer.
I refuse to play any game with a cash shop in it. It restricts the game for rich people. I am thinking of trying AoC but if they go cash shop I will never play it. Cash shops are wrong.
Cash shops are neither right nor wrong, they are simply an alternate payment model. Some of us who can afford them think they are great fun. Plenty of room for players of all persuasions I think.
But I think taking a P2P game and converting to a F2P/cash shop model is wrong and it should not be done to AOC. Yeah, I know they did it for AOC, but I don't think with any great success.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
i ll be interested in seeing what happens with aoc now theres a free trial . i hated this game with a vengance when it came out but now i actually am having fun in it . on top of that i ve managed to get the game very cheaply and two 60 day time cards on ebay for less than half the price of an average monthly fee . the game seams pretty busy to me . i heard reports you could play on a server and not see anyone . i dont know if that was once true but its certainly not now . also the games what it really should of been on release . sadly its another mmo that was damaged by being made available too soon . its actually at present the best alternative to warcraft at the moment if you like a pvp fantasy title .
From what I've read, that's the PvP servers. The pvp in the game isn't regarded as good as other games so very few people play on those. But it's said the other PvE ones are busy. Since the endgame is reserved for PvP anyway, you probably won't miss too much pvp wise until then when you can have those guild city vs guild city battles.
"TO MICHAEL!"
It's a reasonable question, but really would be unethical... at least from my viewpoint. But hey, who knows? Funcom is known to make some brash, idiotic decisions (and yes, I'm saying this as a current subscriber and fan of the game).
You have to think about the current subscribers (albeit a small amount, probably a little over 100k, maybe even 200k but that's certainly pushing max). How do you think it would effect their current market if they instantly switched to some different form of payment? It's like if Comcast decided to completely change the monthly cost of your cable television program to a "pay-as-you-go" program... you can watch whatever TV you like, but each time you turn it on, it costs you a dollar each time. Sure, you may gain a certain group of people this way, but you'll also lose a good amount who preferred the regular monthly fees.
Revenue for a free-to-play game, even with only a little over 100k subs, does not amount to the same thing as regular subs from that group of people. The people attracted towards F2P games are a different target audience than people who pay monthly subs. The game is designed around P2P... to understand this would take a while for me to explain, but game companies do actually create around what type of revenue they plan on recieving from their product (if not being the biggest factor towards design). To change from one form of billing to another for an MMO (while very rare) has only led to disaster... I can't think of a single MMO that has beneffited from this type of move.
Not really bashing the OP, just the OP's idea. It would simply be unethical and unneeded for this game. I would rant about how it is just another person wanting to play something for free (jackals if you ask me), but this poster doesn't seem to be just some random player just wanting a piece of the pie without giving their own part of the slice.
I think that could work for AoC to up the people playing. You don't even need to have a full out cash shop really. I mean that philosophy works for Guild Wars, and I think, personally Guild Wars offers a lot more than AoC at the moment.
Make money off of selling expansions and such.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I don't know if ever lasting free trial of certain part of game is this kind of move even if it is drastic. But, AO wouldn't be alive if FC didn't do it. It was a very good marketing tool and likely majority of current day PAYING players were gained by it, and wouldn't ever had played game or started to play without it. Still it only was move from completly payed to combined free and payed.
Actualy, the trial is 14 days if u register at fileplanet, and 14 days is pretty good enough, hell, for me even one week was enough to build an opinion of the game.
i think the trial was a step in right direction, not that they had much choice, don't know of any MMO that does not offer a trial, except guildwars maybe.
Well, even though i have some major issues with A0C after playing the trial, i think making it free to play would be a big mistake, simply because it will lower the quality of the game and it's community.
I have played a couple of free to play games, most recently ArchLord, these games do make money but their main avenue of making cash is by introducing some sever inbalances in the game, which will puch the gamers to buy items for Real Money from game shops to be able to compete, item like potions which will make u godlike, exp modifiers, resis enhancers, Uber healing potions etc.
this is disastoures for a PvP game, in archlord, a lot of times the deciding factor in a PvP fight is who has more money to buy the better health potion, resist capes, defence potions, offence potions, speed potions, etc. This will appeal to certain people, but most people won't want this and won't want to play in a game that caters for such people.
Another factor is ofcourse all the 12 year old kids which will flood into the game, specialy as this game advertises mature content( something which i realy don't get, some blood on the screen and resizable boobs is mature content??? but that is another discussion)
This will in fact greatly effect the maturity of the gamer community in this game, from my experince, it's not always a good thing (not that 20-30 years old are mature, considering how many people choose female chars with big boobs in AoC i have serious doubts about peoples maturity, LOL), but anyways, not a good road to go , IMO
Isn't that way of running a game used more often in Asia? By allowing people to buy special items ingame or even items ingame with real money. At least a few of the games there I think have a businiess model like that. not 100% sure tho. a while since I read about that.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
On my radar: TSW, MO
MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
Well, i have seen games that gone from p2p to f2p and managed to survive(namely ArchLord) however, the game has some serious problems when it comes to PvP balance, i have talked to people in game who spend 100$ a moth(not a typo) on cash items, to have that godlike feeling, and of course gold sellers have a field day in that game, the game economy is in ridiculous state(some unique overpowered items cost near 1 billion gold, killing a mob gives u 100 gold in mid lvls, by comparison), so the game is in serious trouble, but yeah, it survives and apparenly is making a profit
Correct, a lot of asian games, specialy in china and korea use that model, and they are making good money, however the games are really sc**ed up from a balance point of view, they have to be, why else would you spend real money in a free games cash shop???
See my post about ArchLord(a korean game, release in west by CodeMasters)
Correct, a lot of asian games, specialy in china and korea use that model, and they are making good money, however the games are really sc**ed up from a balance point of view, they have to be, why else would you spend real money in a free games cash shop???
See my post about ArchLord(a korean game, release in west by CodeMasters)
That is indeed the downside with F2P to keep the game running they do need funds, and money isn't coming by magic. So allowing people to buy weapon and armors will disrupt the balance since the ones who cannot afford to spend money on having the best gear will be behind the rest. Also having stuff for sale that doesn't benefit the players buying it will only lead to no people bothering to get it.
it's a thing that isn't easy solved balance wise
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
On my radar: TSW, MO
MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
Correct, a lot of asian games, specialy in china and korea use that model, and they are making good money, however the games are really sc**ed up from a balance point of view, they have to be, why else would you spend real money in a free games cash shop???
See my post about ArchLord(a korean game, release in west by CodeMasters)
That is indeed the downside with F2P to keep the game running they do need funds, and money isn't coming by magic. So allowing people to buy weapon and armors will disrupt the balance since the ones who cannot afford to spend money on having the best gear will be behind the rest. Also having stuff for sale that doesn't benefit the players buying it will only lead to no people bothering to get it.
it's a thing that isn't easy solved balance wise
yes, that is why i prefer a p2p game. the idea of a free 2 play game is tempting, who does not want to have fun for free?? BUT there is never a free lunch in this world, never ever! You have to pay somewhere, somehow
That is indeed the downside with F2P to keep the game running they do need funds, and money isn't coming by magic. So allowing people to buy weapon and armors will disrupt the balance since the ones who cannot afford to spend money on having the best gear will be behind the rest. Also having stuff for sale that doesn't benefit the players buying it will only lead to no people bothering to get it.
it's a thing that isn't easy solved balance wise
How do you think you can watch TV for free? Magic? No. It's called advertising. Look it up.
Many people on this forum seem to completely lack vision. They only talk about what kind of MMO business models we have today and think that those business models will stay until the end of time. World is changing. And so is the world of MMO's. F2P have been mostly crap but once we start seeing F2P MMOs' that are as good as the P2P ones, we might see a revolution in MMO business.
I think at the moment Guild Wars has the best system. You only pay for the game itself and expansions, there are no monthly fees.
In guild wars cant you buy slots and things for character?
Technically speaking, by todays current definition, this game is F2P (it has a free trial available in unlimited amounts). I believe the question actually being asked is about them investigating alternative methods of income, in order to sustain the game.
Microtransactions (aka Item Mall, or Cash Shop) are a good way to add additional revenue to a game. In fact, they can be ADDED to an already existing business model (including subscriptions) to increase the revenue, without ever actaully increasing the user base.
Bottom line, if this game is not making enough money to keep afloat, then they will need to do something to change this, or the game will go under. In business a games sucess is not measured by the number of players, but by its profit/loss.
With 100k subs they still get 1,5million bruto income a month.
SOE has MMO's running with far less subscriber numbers.
CodeMasters has MMO's running with far less subscriber numbers (like DDO for example).
Or how about GOA as European provider for WAR. They aren't doing better then AoC. They are still running too.
RMT and Micro Transactions are a plague to the MMO genre. Paying a monthly fee is more then enough.
Cheers
That is indeed the downside with F2P to keep the game running they do need funds, and money isn't coming by magic. So allowing people to buy weapon and armors will disrupt the balance since the ones who cannot afford to spend money on having the best gear will be behind the rest. Also having stuff for sale that doesn't benefit the players buying it will only lead to no people bothering to get it.
it's a thing that isn't easy solved balance wise
How do you think you can watch TV for free? Magic? No. It's called advertising. Look it up.
Many people on this forum seem to completely lack vision. They only talk about what kind of MMO business models we have today and think that those business models will stay until the end of time. World is changing. And so is the world of MMO's. F2P have been mostly crap but once we start seeing F2P MMOs' that are as good as the P2P ones, we might see a revolution in MMO business.
I think at the moment Guild Wars has the best system. You only pay for the game itself and expansions, there are no monthly fees.
Actualy, different models of f2p have been tried, only guild wars model has had any success and managed the keep the game quality at the same time.
I played a game called Shadowbane once, a FFA PvP game, which went f2p after it failed to attract enough subscribers to sustain it, game was very harsh and brutal(the PvP was way more brutal than AoC), but quite fun because of sieges and nation wars, they managed to keep it going for 4 years i think.
To their credit, they never tried the cash shop idea, and tried to keep the game balanced. they tried a number of different ideas, including the advertisement which never really worked. It alienated peopel a lot, and eventualy they droped it
So far, no one has come up with a good idea to maintain a balanced game of good quality which costs the players nothing to play(You do have to buy the guild wars. so i realy don't consider it f2p, just another way of p2p, although a cheap and interesting one)
Actualy, different models of f2p have been tried, only guild wars model has had any success and managed the keep the game quality at the same time.
I played a game called Shadowbane once, a FFA PvP game, which went f2p after it failed to attract enough subscribers to sustain it, game was very harsh and brutal(the PvP was way more brutal than AoC), but quite fun because of sieges and nation wars, they managed to keep it going for 4 years i think.
To their credit, they never tried the cash shop idea, and tried to keep the game balanced. they tried a number of different ideas, including the advertisement which never really worked. It alienated peopel a lot, and eventualy they droped it
So far, no one has come up with a good idea to maintain a balanced game of good quality which costs the players nothing to play(You do have to buy the guild wars. so i realy don't consider it f2p, just another way of p2p, although a cheap and interesting one)
Thomas Edison failed thousands of times before inventing the light bulb.
Perfect F2P business model has not been found yet but that doesn't mean it will never be found. I think it would be a good thing for Age of Conan.
I think it would be a good thing for Age of Conan.
Age of Conan going Free 2 Play will be far from a good thing!
If the game can't survive as Play 2 Play game, how you think it's going to survive going Free 2 Play?
It will attrack the worst people from the internet and kill off the Age of Conan Community.
If you make a good game, you can easily survive and make good profit on a P2P bussiness model. Simple as that.
Going Free 2 Play isn't going to make the game magically better. In the contrary.
Cheers
I refuse to play any game with a cash shop in it. It restricts the game for rich people. I am thinking of trying AoC but if they go cash shop I will never play it. Cash shops are wrong.
Cash shops are neither right nor wrong, they are simply an alternate payment model. Some of us who can afford them think they are great fun. Plenty of room for players of all persuasions I think.
But I think taking a P2P game and converting to a F2P/cash shop model is wrong and it should not be done to AOC. Yeah, I know they did it for AOC, but I don't think with any great success.
A cash shop in a PvE game, I agree, is just an alternate payment model. It doesn't affect me if you buy something I quest for. HOWEVER...a cash shop in a PvP game is cheating, pure and simple. If you can buy your way to victory over a poorer player, it is inherently unfair, and THAT I will neither play nor support.
100,000 Subscriber it's actually quite good.SUre it's not like WoW . But WoW subs is inflated by the 6 millions chinese paying 2 cent an hours and the thousand of *farm* business playing.Kinda like how daoc sub was inflated by buffbot account.
Plus getting to level 20 take basicly 6 hours if you don't read every quest.PPl who want to play for free are simply Hypocrite that love the game but are to cheao to pay a monthly fee.Stay outside,we don't need you.
That is indeed the downside with F2P to keep the game running they do need funds, and money isn't coming by magic. So allowing people to buy weapon and armors will disrupt the balance since the ones who cannot afford to spend money on having the best gear will be behind the rest. Also having stuff for sale that doesn't benefit the players buying it will only lead to no people bothering to get it.
it's a thing that isn't easy solved balance wise
How do you think you can watch TV for free? Magic? No. It's called advertising. Look it up.
Many people on this forum seem to completely lack vision. They only talk about what kind of MMO business models we have today and think that those business models will stay until the end of time. World is changing. And so is the world of MMO's. F2P have been mostly crap but once we start seeing F2P MMOs' that are as good as the P2P ones, we might see a revolution in MMO business.
I think at the moment Guild Wars has the best system. You only pay for the game itself and expansions, there are no monthly fees.
Keep in mind one thing and we do agree on this matter, Advertising is both good and bad. EA tried it with BF2142 and they got a massive protest against it. EA found out that it isn't popular amongst gamers to see advertising. But they need to get the money from some where, Guild wars model does work, never played it myself so not sure how often they update the game with more content bug fixes etc.
It could quite possibly work for AoC too, but it depends what tyoe of server s are needed and what are the maintenance costs compared to say AoC and GW. CS:S is F2P simply because the servers are being hosted by companies or other players so Valve has no expenses on them. Different games might require different technology to run and that can be the one thing that defines if it can be f2p or not.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
On my radar: TSW, MO
MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom