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Moving to 0.0 , worth it or not?
rokknroll
Member Posts: 22
Ok, im not posting a rant about how crap eve is because it isnt [yourmmohere].
Im posting a serious question, so i expect discussion to be slim 
Our corp has links to 0.0 , access to markets and such for capital level construction, and currently has POS's in low-sec, whilst being headquartered in Hi-Sec, we also run various W-Space operations , and turn over a nice profit.
Is it worth the upset and schism to move to 0.0, under quite onoerous terms of alliance, for huge risks and not much more reward?
Its mainly one or two very vocal members that bring this up constantly, the silent majority staying silent.
Is this EVE's version of end-game epiclust? You know, where 1 or 2 from a casual guild decide that they want to be Hardcore Raid Pwners and drag the guild kicking and screaming to its destruction?
Are there major risks in 0.0 other than gankage and war? For example the logistics of selling manufactured goods?
[edited for clarity]
Comments
Hmm, worth it or not ?
Well there is potential in 0.0 for much more profit and much for pvp fun if that is what you are looking for for your corp. I would suggest getting your silent people to voice their opinion and what they would like. No sense in dragging a bunch of people to do something they do not want to do. If it is only a couple of vocal people that are more interested in 0.0 let them go join a 0.0 corp and see if they like it, if not then let them come back.
If you feel the potential gains from going to 0.0 does not match the risk then why do it ? If you and your corp are happy doing what you are doing then why disrupt that right now ?
There is no hard core raid pwners in Eve. Different people do different things. Some people love 0.0 life and pvp. Gankage only happens if you don't use intel channels and use scouts and prices for goods in 0.0 space tends to sell for much more than empire if you can manage the logistics.
0.0 can be quite profittable, mainly through ratting and the transporting of rare ores/minerals back to hisec. It is also much more dangerous, mainly as another corp doesn't need to bother with a wardec to kill you, they just fly to where you are. Moving to 0.0 from hisec can be done quite easily & quickly without any preparation or planning, but it won't be a painless transition that way.
The addage "failing to prepare, is preparing to fail" really does apply.
You also need to get the opinion of that silent majority, do they really WANT a move to 0.0, and if the majority don't it might be for the best that those few who do want to move leave and apply to join an established 0.0 corp/alliance
If your corp does decide to move, get real good at diplomacy fast. Make friends/join an alliance. And welcome to a sometimes faster paced, more exiting world of eve.
you guys sound happy where you are, if you want to stick your toes into 0.0 and try it out why not organise a few fleets and go to npc 0.0, or maybe rent some space to see what its like? theres no rush.
I'd say move. I've been in 0.0 for a while now, and seeing the profit.. It's amazing. You gain so much more.
You could find a NRDS-space and hang around there, or get into an alliance which already has space. The fuss might be overexaggerated, but nonetheless lowsec profits can't compare to 0.0 profits. And there are everything you're already doing there - as well as (some places) more safe.
You know, sharks are close to the shore, where there is a lot of food. In the deep waters, you'll rarely see them. This is eve as well. Pirates are in low sec, close to high sec, because they can gank a lot of people. In 0.0, they've been chased away. :P
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Moving to 0.0 can be a blessing or a curse for a young (or old) alliance. It really depends on whether you AND your members want to try the move or not. Also, remember, moving to 0.0 does not mean you have to give up your lowsec, or high sec, operations, it does mean it'll be a bit more work to manage them unless you have alts that can deal with the highsec/lowsec stuff while you are out in 0.0.
The most important thing to ask yourself isn't the profit question or whether it's worth it. They key question is:
"Does my corporation WANT to move to 0.0"
If the answer is yes, then move. If not... then don't. The last thing you want to do is force your corporation to move (or not) when they are against (or for) it. It can kill a corp, or make it stronger, depending on what your goals in 0.0 are.
If you just want to dabble in 0.0 then I recommend moving into Providence (if you haven't pissed off CVA) or Great Wildlands or Syndicate. Mind you, while Prov is friendly to neutrals and Syndicate and Great Wildlands are NPC space that doesn't make them 'safe' by any means... just 'safer' and a bit less likely that someone will come along and start blasting your POS' out of the sky. (Note: Before moving into GW you might want to start up a dialogue with some of the former foundation corporations that live in the area to get a feel for the political situation. It's a mess there since Foundation collapsed)
Alternatively you can also go the 'renter' route... which I only recommend if you are committed to making the move to 0.0 and aren't strong enough to take space of your own. Renting can be quite expensive and also you will want to be careful what terms you agree to on your 'rental' of space from a larger 0.0 alliance.
And, lastly, if you are ok with merging into a larger entity you can always try to find an already 0.0 established alliance and seek membership in the alliance. This is cheapest, and usually the most rewarding method. However once a member your corporation will be expected to assist with defense of the alliance's territory. So only make this move if your membership is seriously dedicated to living in 0.0.
Is it worth it? That's a loaded question... ratting/mining in 0.0 is some of the best income in the game, but if you're already living and working in WH space you can rival that income fairly easily from sleeper loot/invention/production of T3 equipment. Plexing in 0.0 is phenomenally profitable but, again, you can plex in 0.0 fairly easily by just sneaking in in a probe capable ship and finding plexes on your own. If all you are concerned about is 'profit' then my answer would be "Yes, there's more profit possible in 0.0 but if that's your ONLY reason for going to 0.0 then no, it's probably really not worth the time, effort and infrastructure you'll need to develop to do it as there are other ways to make just as much isk without ever stepping into 0.0"
0.0 takes commitment from all your members to make it work for the corporation. It means that you are subject to PvP at all times(which, imo, is a good thing) and it means that you will need to work more as a team and less as individuals. The rewards can be great. But if all you're doing it for is 'profit' then I'd say you're going in with the wrong mindset
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
for one you will eventually recruit more players in the long run ... two if you do move into 0.0 you need a reserve of isk meaning dont invest to much in things you cant replace with a solid plan its a good way to try but mind you if you do go into 0.0 then move back to empire most of your pilots would have gotten use to 0.0 and will probably move on to something else then go back to empire .
Ok well speaking from a standpoint of being in aliances like TCF, Axiom, GBC and what not. If your planning to go to 0.0 for profit and have fun with your little friendly 10 man corp than no its not worth it and youll want to cut your wrists. But if you move out there with a big alliance with safe space. Decent places to rat and mine and plenty of organized fleet ops than yes youll love it. But no dont go to 0.0 if you think your going to try to do it alone its not about that at all you will hate it. Dont get dragged to 0.0 with a care bear corp thats never been there and THINK they can handle it. In all honesty though if you join a well known alliance and go out to 0.0 than youll be fine Infact the alliances ive been in over the years ive felt more safe in 0.0 than I did in lowsec or empire for that matter.
Not much reward in 0.0 dunno what crack pipe youve been hanging on to but before this whole conflict with BoB getting shut down I was in querious ran this same complex within a week 4 times and got a mod worth 1.2 Bil In empire. So Im not sure what your talking about not much reward? and no it didn't require much effort.
I do some exploration stuff in delve/querious.....
You could be like me. I always pull out my covops and try to explore. All i get is fucking combat sites day after day. I want Archaelogy/Hacking- not combat plex that seems to be a lot of work
Add to that the frustration awhile back I lost my fully plex fit Domi to a POS theif.....
You can lose and lose and lose alot of ISK out there....
The real isk is not ratting or exploration in 0.0. Its the R64 Moons. 6-11 billion a month is what u get from 1 moon. Nice steady ISK but as you imagine the big alliances fight for control of these
If you guys are making good ISK in w-space maybe you want to stick to that I dunno. Now, the rats in a good 0.0 space can be good going up to 1.9mil a drop for a normal rat in really, really nullsec (-0.9 or whatever)
I also lived in Providence before. Safest 0.0 I ever seen hwever worst rats bar none in the game. Don't move to Providence. Better off just flying in yer ship and see for yourself. They dont shoot neuts in Provi
i find moving into 0.0 made me enjoy eve online less. all 0.0 is about how big of a blob u belong to. if your alliance refuses to be part of a big blob, be prepared to have your space taken out so a blob can make their blob even bigger. 0.0 is more profitable and even less risk then empire. i always find myself feeling much more safer in 0.0 then in empire. u see a red/neutral, u safe up, go back to mining/ratting. thats it. lots of money no risk. i had more fun dealing with pirates trying to gank me in empire. luckily i just got invited to a closed beta of another skill based game and i'm finally having real fun in mmos again.
I've got a small corp. We've made billions with low key operations in NPC 0.0.. most of the profits from exploration coupled with invention/ T2 production. I did the big alliance thing a while back.. will never do it again because you inevitably have to follow rules established by some bozo with a napoleon complex.
Profits are pretty huge in 0.0 compared to lowsec. Try NPC space- diplomacy is your best friend.
deviliscious: (PS. I have been told that when I use scientific language, it does not make me sound more intelligent, it only makes me sound like a jackass. It makes me appear that I am not knowledgable enough in the subject I am discussing to be able to translate it for people outside the field to understand. Some advice you might consider as well)