One should beware of these kinds of comments about "responsibility" as a personal disposition. Responsibility is a hollow and superficial device to make people believe they are in control of their own destinies as a matter of free-will and choice. Of course it is nothing of the sort. Instead the entire "responsibilization" rhetoric is positioned by those who control how we act and think. In effect "being responsible" means to follow a code of duty that is superimposed on people by governments, companies and institutions. (e.g. responsible parents and adults) It is myth and has no basis in how things actually get done.
Probably the best-written text block of nonsensical bullshit I've ever seen. It just goes to show that idiocy wrapped in gold paper is still idiocy. Bottom line, if you can't control how you "act and think" then give up on life, because you've already failed. Claiming that individuals as a society have been brainwashed by the very individuals of that society is probably the least logical thing I've ever read in a real debate. You're obviously not dumb, but I guess (since you admitted it yourself) you can't think for yourself. Bigbrother is bullshit. You're a cook. End story.
Being responsible has nothing to do with duty; at least, not in this thread. It has to do only with doing what's necessary to survive. You are extrapolating unneccssary circumastances on a simple scenario. Survival isn't something superimposed. Additiaonlly, if a person is so weakminded to have other people's thoughts, principles, etc "superimposed" onto them: It's probably for the best, because they lack the critical analysis skills necessary to be an independantly successful individual. I still call bullshit on the whole thing though.
Yeah I think its absolutely appaling that no safety warnings are given out with games......because they are EXTREMELY dangerous products!!!! I have been playing Spellborn recently and I nearly died!! I was playing it for days on end without stopping once!! I didnt eat anything, drink anything or sleep at all because the damned game didnt tell me too! Fortunately a friend found me in time and saved my life. Phew! That was a real close call I can tell ya. Now I deeply fear playing any more of these dangerous games.......but......but.......I MUST play them! I cannot stop!! However if a safety warning appeared every hour saying things like "Take a 20 minute break", "Go to the toilet" or "Isnt it time you went to sleep young man?" then I might feel more safe playing as my life would not be put into such extreme danger. I also believe that safety warnings should be attached to EVERYTHING!!! I was reading a book several weeks ago and guess what? I NEARLY DIED!!!! I couldnt put it down......and the problem is that I'm a slooooooowwww reader. Again I didnt eat, sleep or even go to the toilet when I needed to. I was sat in a pool of my own excrement and urine. It was very unhealthy indeed. Fortunately I was saved by a friend again. None of this would have happened if there was a safety warning on every 10th page.......but because I wasnt told how to look after myself, that damned book nearly killed me!!! So yes I call for safety warnings on everything!! This is a very dangerous world we live in and millions of peoples lives are being put at risk with every game, book, film, food, drink, car, bike, horse, plane or any other object or activity that gets utilised by someone. My heart goes out to every deeply intelligent and wise soul that has been snuffed out by a lethal computer game. It needs to be stopped or it wont be long before the entire human race becomes extinct!
After this post, everything else has just been unnecessary. This wins the thread.
Originally posted by Wighty
It's like the latest batch of MMO's are like a f'n Kevin Costner movie... <think Waterworld, the Postman, etc> they cost a FORTUNE, they sound like they may be good but then you just realized you sat around for 3 hours of WTF...
Yeah I think its absolutely appaling that no safety warnings are given out with games......because they are EXTREMELY dangerous products!!!! I have been playing Spellborn recently and I nearly died!! ............
My heart goes out to every deeply intelligent and wise soul that has been snuffed out by a lethal computer game. It needs to be stopped or it wont be long before the entire human race becomes extinct!
After this post, everything else has just been unnecessary. This wins the thread.
Neonwire while i realise you're joking, I just can't help pointing out a few things. Some games do have epilepsy warnings. Warnings are everywhere and are part of modern life. I can't walk more than 10 meters in real life without seeing some sort of warning. If games, particularly MMOG's, had a warning label stating you may become addicted. Would it realy be that bad or unusual? It doesn't realy have to be a warning as such, just information. Pratically all products are required to display what goes into make that product. How else can you make an informed choice? Or do you just sense everything?
Do people know they have a peanut allergy before they eat a peanut? Do alcoholics realise that they will become addicted to alcohol before they drink?
But im not saying that the guy should have lived either. Think about all the signs that are on your local roads. You have learned through experience where all the dangerous places are and the speed limits before you even reach those zones. Inexperienced people do not. Not only that, warning signs prevent people from saying after the fact "Oh i didn't know". Imagine there were no road signs or markings or traffic lights. The chances of some idiot driving too fast and plowing into your car 'round a blind turn increase dramaticaly.
What happens every time somebody plays violent video games and goes and kills someone with a gun? Gamers get a bad rep. This is the same situation. Thats why safety signs were invented. To stop idiots killing intelligent people. Or in the very least ruining their favourite pastime.
Yeah I think its absolutely appaling that no safety warnings are given out with games......because they are EXTREMELY dangerous products!!!! I have been playing Spellborn recently and I nearly died!! ............
My heart goes out to every deeply intelligent and wise soul that has been snuffed out by a lethal computer game. It needs to be stopped or it wont be long before the entire human race becomes extinct!
After this post, everything else has just been unnecessary. This wins the thread.
Neonwire while i realise you're joking, I just can't help pointing out a few things. Some games do have epilepsy warnings. Warnings are everywhere and are part of modern life. I can't walk more than 10 meters in real life without seeing some sort of warning. If games, particularly MMOG's, had a warning label stating you may become addicted. Would it realy be that bad or unusual? It doesn't realy have to be a warning as such, just information. Pratically all products are required to display what goes into make that product. How else can you make an informed choice? Or do you just sense everything?
Do people know they have a peanut allergy before they eat a peanut? Do alcoholics realise that they will become addicted to alcohol before they drink?
But im not saying that the guy should have lived either. Think about the road and all the signs that are on your local roads. You have learned through experience where all the dangerous places are and the speed limits before you even reach those zones. Inexperienced people do not. Not only that, warning signs prevent people from saying after the fact "Oh i didn't know". Imagine there were no road signs or markings or traffic lights. The chances of some idiot driving too fast and plowing into your car 'round a blind turn increase dramaticaly.
What happens every time somebody plays violent video games and goes and kills someone with a gun? Gamers get a bad rep. This is the same situation. Thats why safety signs were invented. To stop idiots killing intelligent people. Or in the very least ruining their favourite pastime.
Epilepsy is invulentary. Not eating and sleeping is a choice. Society doesn't really need to warn people to quit being stupid. You can only make up so many excuses for them.
I don't really like any of your analogies because they are all very flawed.
Cars can kill other people simply by losing control over your vehicle. Cars are very lethal in every way which is why we need to study and pass test to be alowed to drive them. There are thousands of ways to die by accidents or intentionally that a person has absolutely no control over. You losing control over your vehicle can kill other people regardless of your mental state.
Games are not lethal in the same way. If a psychotic individual goes to a mall and starts shooting everybody after playing counter strike..guess what it wasn't counter strike that made him do it. It was the fact he was a psychotic lunatic and the game just a trigger out of many triggers that would have caused him to do so.
Games does not make you forget to sleep or eat. That is a concious choice. Ignoring your bodys warning signs is a choice.
Allergies are a dumb comparison as well now that we are at it. You can be alleric to anything even water. Should we put warning signs on everything because of that?. Yeah lets have a society that is completely covered with warning signs. Or we can just use common sense and the warning signs our body gives us that tells us we need sleep or need to eat.
People die in a lot of weird ways. When you consider how many people play MMORPGs, compared to how many people who have died because of them, it's probably hard to find anything with a lower death rate, really.
Sports - people get killed there all the time. Just recently, in my local team's baseball stadium, a drunk guy fell from the upper decks onto a woman (the guy is okay, the woman is critical). This happens fairly often, actually, maybe once a year at baseball stadiums.
Heck, just going outside to do anything, you can get killed. Lightning, meteorites, bears, sharks, the swine flu.
That said, I do think companies should consider limiting how much a person can play a game in 24 hours. I would say 10 hours, myself.
Because for some, gaming is an addiction. But unlike a lot of addictions, there is really no limitation to it. If you gamble, you run out of money. Drugs or Alcohol, you eventually run out of the drugs or alcohol, and have to go buy more (and again, the money issue).
That said, I don't think companies should be forced to include a limit. But they should consider doing it voluntarily. It would benefit them in the long run. Reduce server costs, reduce amount of content needed in game, etc.
People die in a lot of weird ways. When you consider how many people play MMORPGs, compared to how many people who have died because of them, it's probably hard to find anything with a lower death rate, really. Sports - people get killed there all the time. Just recently, in my local team's baseball stadium, a drunk guy fell from the upper decks onto a woman (the guy is okay, the woman is critical). This happens fairly often, actually, maybe once a year at baseball stadiums. Heck, just going outside to do anything, you can get killed. Lightning, meteorites, bears, sharks, the swine flu.
That said, I do think companies should consider limiting how much a person can play a game in 24 hours. I would say 10 hours, myself. Because for some, gaming is an addiction. But unlike a lot of addictions, there is really no limitation to it. If you gamble, you run out of money. Drugs or Alcohol, you eventually run out of the drugs or alcohol, and have to go buy more (and again, the money issue). That said, I don't think companies should be forced to include a limit. But they should consider doing it voluntarily. It would benefit them in the long run. Reduce server costs, reduce amount of content needed in game, etc.
Exactly. Finally someone gets it. If a gaming company limits a game to being played 30-40 hours a week. It doesn't effect normal people. Would anyone here actually care if there was such a restriction? And if you did does that mean you are actually addicted and in denial?
I mean publicans have to do training called the Responsible Serving of alcohol. If someone wants to drink themselves into oblivion, at home, fine. If they do it in a public bar would you want to be there when something goes wrong? Or to be responsible for fueling it?
Excellent points Trancejeremy.
And it could also reduce the impact of farmers botters etc.
People die in a lot of weird ways. When you consider how many people play MMORPGs, compared to how many people who have died because of them, it's probably hard to find anything with a lower death rate, really. Sports - people get killed there all the time. Just recently, in my local team's baseball stadium, a drunk guy fell from the upper decks onto a woman (the guy is okay, the woman is critical). This happens fairly often, actually, maybe once a year at baseball stadiums. Heck, just going outside to do anything, you can get killed. Lightning, meteorites, bears, sharks, the swine flu.
That said, I do think companies should consider limiting how much a person can play a game in 24 hours. I would say 10 hours, myself. Because for some, gaming is an addiction. But unlike a lot of addictions, there is really no limitation to it. If you gamble, you run out of money. Drugs or Alcohol, you eventually run out of the drugs or alcohol, and have to go buy more (and again, the money issue). That said, I don't think companies should be forced to include a limit. But they should consider doing it voluntarily. It would benefit them in the long run. Reduce server costs, reduce amount of content needed in game, etc.
Exactly. Finally someone gets it. If a gaming company limits a game to being played 30-40 hours a week. It doesn't effect normal people. Would anyone here actually care if there was such a restriction? And if you did does that mean you are actually addicted and in denial?
I mean publicans have to do training called the Responsible Serving of alcohol. If someone wants to drink themselves into oblivion, at home, fine. If they do it in a public bar would you want to be there when something goes wrong? Or to be responsible for fueling it?
Excellent points Trancejeremy.
And it could also eliminate alot of farmers botters etc.
Wow, I don't need anyone limiting my gaming or anything else. That's plain silly. I am an adult and if the wife and kids are gone, my work is done, and there aren't any distratctions I should be able to play as long as I want. There are members of the human race that just don't know where to draw the line. Don't punish those of us that do for the their sake.
It's gotten to the point where some MMOs have been reduced to little more than success dispensers. Don't think. Don't challenge yourself. Do as little as possible... but still be rewarded for it. Yeah.. *that's* fun.
People die in a lot of weird ways. When you consider how many people play MMORPGs, compared to how many people who have died because of them, it's probably hard to find anything with a lower death rate, really. Sports - people get killed there all the time. Just recently, in my local team's baseball stadium, a drunk guy fell from the upper decks onto a woman (the guy is okay, the woman is critical). This happens fairly often, actually, maybe once a year at baseball stadiums. Heck, just going outside to do anything, you can get killed. Lightning, meteorites, bears, sharks, the swine flu.
That said, I do think companies should consider limiting how much a person can play a game in 24 hours. I would say 10 hours, myself. Because for some, gaming is an addiction. But unlike a lot of addictions, there is really no limitation to it. If you gamble, you run out of money. Drugs or Alcohol, you eventually run out of the drugs or alcohol, and have to go buy more (and again, the money issue). That said, I don't think companies should be forced to include a limit. But they should consider doing it voluntarily. It would benefit them in the long run. Reduce server costs, reduce amount of content needed in game, etc.
Exactly. Finally someone gets it. If a gaming company limits a game to being played 30-40 hours a week. It doesn't effect normal people. Would anyone here actually care if there was such a restriction? And if you did does that mean you are actually addicted and in denial?
I mean publicans have to do training called the Responsible Serving of alcohol. If someone wants to drink themselves into oblivion, at home, fine. If they do it in a public bar would you want to be there when something goes wrong? Or to be responsible for fueling it?
Excellent points Trancejeremy.
And it could also reduce the impact of farmers botters etc.
And what about the thousands of people who play mmorpgs due to the fact they are physically disabled and homebound most of the time? So because a few wankers can't handle their shit, and bleeding hearts like yourself think it's okay to limit the fun of the many for the safety of the idiotic few, a person who is legitimately disabled and plays to enjoy the comraderie and mobility they no longer enjoy in the real world should suffer?
Good thing I live in the U.S.A. and not some backwater dictatorship like China. Because if companies start doing that here, I and the rest of the majority of NA gamers can just move to a game which doesn't limit our freedom due to evolutionary rejects. See how long those limited play games last here. Actually, that's a good thing, as I don't really see us in the NA/EU really missing 1000 asian grinders.
By the way, go to Nevada and try to force casinos to limit playtime for their customers. You'll have the same appropriate result others did when they tried: laughed out of the fuckin' court room.
You guys want warnings on games, that's fine.
WARNING: ONLINE GAMES MAY BE ADDICTIVE. BY PLAYING YOU HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY MISHAP
RESULTING FROM YOUR OWN INABILITY TO CONTROL YOUR GAMING HABITS ARE YOUR SOLE RESPONSIBILITY
AND WE WILL NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN ANY WAY FOR YOUR LACK OF SELF - CONTROL AND/OR LACK OF GOOD JUDGEMENT. PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK.
It is ok for people to die playing MMO's. Because if you are playing MMO's you already have no life anyway. In fact if you don't die after playing MMO's there's something wrong with Mother Nature.
hehe remined me of the WOW southpark episode..how do you kill one with no life or whatever
Probably the same way you try to reason with a delusion.
lol, o noes someone died. careface. Why should you interfere with someone elses life? when they should be able to choose what they want to do. I think you would be better off advocating for people not to do drugs- yet it wouldn't matter also. Anyways im sure there are people out there dieing from something much more retarded, though I could give 2 shits.
BTW as you say "holding someone accountable" I do understand that it is human nature to want to place the blame on someone, but thats like saying sue water because people have died from consuming too much. social darwinism let it be.
People die in a lot of weird ways. ........ Reduce server costs, reduce amount of content needed in game, etc.
Exactly.
........
And it could also reduce the impact of farmers botters etc.
And what about the thousands of people who play mmorpgs due to the fact they are physically disabled and homebound most of the time? So because a few wankers can't handle their shit, and bleeding hearts like yourself think it's okay to limit the fun of the many for the safety of the idiotic few, a person who is legitimately disabled and plays to enjoy the comraderie and mobility they no longer enjoy in the real world should suffer?
Good thing I live in the U.S.A. and not some backwater dictatorship like China. Because if companies start doing that here, I and the rest of the majority of NA gamers can just move to a game which doesn't limit our freedom due to evolutionary rejects. See how long those limited play games last here. Actually, that's a good thing, as I don't really see us in the NA/EU really missing 1000 asian grinders.
By the way, go to Nevada and try to force casinos to limit playtime for their customers. You'll have the same appropriate result others did when they tried: laughed out of the fuckin' court room.
You guys want warnings on games, that's fine.
WARNING: ONLINE GAMES MAY BE ADDICTIVE. BY PLAYING YOU HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY MISHAP
RESULTING FROM YOUR OWN INABILITY TO CONTROL YOUR GAMING HABITS ARE YOUR SOLE RESPONSIBILITY
AND WE WILL NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN ANY WAY FOR YOUR LACK OF SELF - CONTROL AND/OR LACK OF GOOD JUDGEMENT. PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK.
People who have lost limbs or the use of their legs can still lead an active lifestyle. They are not dependant on video games. Ever heard of the specialolympics? What percentage of gamers are that badly disabled that the only thing they can do is play video games? Would they be a viable marke on their ownt? I mean the USA is a proud free enterprise system.
China is a backwater? Grinders are all asian? There are only 1000? I don't think so.
We have the Freedom to do what we want? No limits? No laws?
I don't throw my money away on the hope of making making myself a big shot. I play MMORPG's ;D.
Excellent warning Wisebutcruel. Why would that be out of place in the current EULA's? Nobody reads them anyway, and the company can cover their ass. Legally.
"If some people got their rights, they would complain of being deprived of their wrongs." - OLIVER HERFORD
If there had not been so many well thought out links I would have said this was a Troll thread.
What’s wrong with you guys society needs to hold our hand, we need our school qualifications given to us, a job handed to us on a plate and all of life’s woes comforted by the bosom of society. We are not destined to make our own decisions; that’s why we are not responsible for anything we do.
We all want to be identical freaks, contributing nothing, but assured of the supreme importance of our own individuality. We are responsible for nothing but deserving of everything.
Nobody cares if some idiot stays on the internet to long and dies.
However, I think there's a legitimate reason for putting in breaks on accounts on Pay to Play games. It can stop botting, gold farming, and sharing accounts.
Because people are responsible for themselves. Not the game company, not the government.
Every time a new case of someone getting hospitalized or in extreme cases dying surfaces, I disagree more and more.
It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.
I hope this gets pointed out each time there is another death and I hope every single time, the game gets mentioned, the game company and if someone doesn't make a post on this forum about it, I will, because someone needs to start taking responsibilites for this and the blame should not solely be put on the player, often underaged mind you.
Because people are responsible for themselves. Not the game company, not the government.
Every time a new case of someone getting hospitalized or in extreme cases dying, I disagree more and more.
It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.
I hope this get pointed out each time there is another death and I hope every single time, the game gets mentioned, the game company and if someone doesn't make a post on this forum about it, I will, because someone needs to start taking responsibilites for this and the blame should not solely be put on the player, often underaged mind you.
No sorry i can't disagree with you more. Thousands of people die everyday. Some from war, Some from plague, famine, suicide, cancer from smoking. heart attacks from poor eating habits etc etc etc. Death is a universal constant. You might not like it but its true. Do you hold the car makers accountable for every driver that dies in a accident from speeding or drinking and driving? Do you hold the gun makers responsible every time someone takes their own life with a gun? People do need to be responible for their own actions. Once you take away that accountablituy from ones own actions you trivialize humanity from living thinking beings with choices and consequences to mere objects controlled by their enviroment.
Yes that poor axe murderer may have killed several innocent people, but it wasn't his fault! The axe company made the axe too sharp he had to kill people with it!
Where does the placing blame on others stop? Its just always so much easier to place blame on others then to owe up and accept that perhaps we who actually do the actions are actually the ones at fault.
While we are at placing the blame on others who actually then is to blame? The game designers for making a good game people want to play? The parent who use the computers, and consul games as baby sitters because they are too busy to watch little junior? maybe its the schools for putting so much stress on little junior that he feels the need to want to escape into games anyway? maybe its the parent job that is at fault for placing demands on the parents that keep them from being able to properly watch their childern? No no it must be society as a whole then as its the need for money that drives the parent to work to provide for little junior, that in turn takes the parent away from being able to properly supervis him 24 hours a day!
It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.
There's really no limit to which I disagree with this statement.
If I choose to slash my wrists with a stainless steel carving knife:
1. The shop that sold me the knife is not responsible.
2. The distributor that supplied the knife to the shop is not responsible.
3. The manufacturor of the knife is not responsible.
4. The patent-holder for stainless steel is not responsible.
There's only one person ultimately responsible for my actions and that's me.
Expecting any of the above people to put a warning label on the knife saying "Warning! Do not use to slash wrists!" is frankly laughable. None of the parties bear any moral or legal responsibility to do so. Why do some of you feel that MMO's are different?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Because people are responsible for themselves. Not the game company, not the government.
Every time a new case of someone getting hospitalized or in extreme cases dying surfaces, I disagree more and more.
It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.
I hope this gets pointed out each time there is another death and I hope every single time, the game gets mentioned, the game company and if someone doesn't make a post on this forum about it, I will, because someone needs to start taking responsibilites for this and the blame should not solely be put on the player, often underaged mind you.
People die from addiction all the time both legal and illegal. If they are not willing to accept assistance than so be it. nothing2gein is right, people are responsible for themselves and the only thing that I would expect a supplier to do is include a disclaimer. Beyond that, they should not be held accountable for a person's stupidity. Just look at smoking, people know that it causes cancer but yet they pay $7-$10 a pack because they don't want to quit.
Underage death is a completely difference scenario. The new generation of parents are all "too busy" to attend to their child so instead plop them down in front of a TV or PC to keep them out of their hair. I believe that there should be a birth limiter installed in everyone at birth and if you are unable to pass an aptitude and financial test then no children for you.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Skipping posts after the OP and just say there are some mmo's that do give a warning to players to take a break. Overall parents are responsible for the children under 18, and over 18+ well your responsible for yourself. If your dumb enough to watse your life at a computer screen all day and week then your an idiot no lifer than deserves what happens, I hate to be blunt but it's the truth and it sometimes hurts to hear it so.
It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.
There's really no limit to which I disagree with this statement.
If I choose to slash my wrists with a stainless steel carving knife:
1. The shop that sold me the knife is not responsible.
2. The distributor that supplied the knife to the shop is not responsible.
3. The manufacturor of the knife is not responsible.
4. The patent-holder for stainless steel is not responsible.
There's only one person ultimately responsible for my actions and that's me.
Expecting any of the above people to put a warning label on the knife saying "Warning! Do not use to slash wrists!" is frankly laughable. None of the parties bear any moral or legal responsibility to do so. Why do some of you feel that MMO's are different?
You cannot compare completely different scenarios, make analogies which suit your argument and make conclusions out of them.
There is no denying that these games are very addictive and that when they come into the hands of people who cannot control their playtime, eating and sleeping habits, that the game is influencing them so much that the game is directly related to, and was a contibuter to, their death.
That makes the game companies responsible. Whether these people would still be alive if they were not introduced to those game is a question that needs to be asked.
It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.
There's really no limit to which I disagree with this statement.
If I choose to slash my wrists with a stainless steel carving knife:
1. The shop that sold me the knife is not responsible.
2. The distributor that supplied the knife to the shop is not responsible.
3. The manufacturor of the knife is not responsible.
4. The patent-holder for stainless steel is not responsible.
There's only one person ultimately responsible for my actions and that's me.
Expecting any of the above people to put a warning label on the knife saying "Warning! Do not use to slash wrists!" is frankly laughable. None of the parties bear any moral or legal responsibility to do so. Why do some of you feel that MMO's are different?
You cannot compare completely different scenarios, make analogies which suit your argument and make conclusions out of them.
There is no denying that these games are very addictive and that when they come into the hands of people who cannot control their playtime, eating and sleeping habits, that the game is influencing them so much that the game is directly related to, and was a contibuter to, their death.
That makes the game companies responsible. Whether these people would still be alive if they were not introduced to those game is a question that needs to be asked.
Again, you cannot hold a company responsible for a person's shortcomings. You don't see Jack Daniels assuming responsibility for alcoholism and you don't see Phillip Morris assuming responsibility for cancer related death. Why? Because people are aware of the potential risks of negligence and abuse.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
There is no denying that these games are very addictive and that when they come into the hands of people who cannot control their playtime, eating and sleeping habbits, that the game is influencing them so much that the game is directly related to, and was a contibuter to, their death. That makes the game companies responsible. Whether these people would still be alive if they were not introduced to those game is a question that needs to be asked. Self-harming with an MMO is no different than self-harming with a knife. This is because MMO gaming is not addictive, but can be the focus of compulsion. That difference is important; in the hands of a non-compulsive personality an MMO is not a harmful product. I can play one, or stop playing one for extended periods and suffer no ill effects from either choice. A compulsive personality isn't able to do that. They're bound by their obsessions and are unable to break away from them. This is directly comparable to self-harming by cutting .. not addictive, but compulsive. That's not to say that these people don't need help; they clearly do .. but it's psychological help that they need to resolve their compulsions. They will not be swayed by a warning label, though I imagine that every EULA will soon include one purely on the basis that it covers the developers from any frivolous lawsuits.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Comments
Probably the best-written text block of nonsensical bullshit I've ever seen. It just goes to show that idiocy wrapped in gold paper is still idiocy. Bottom line, if you can't control how you "act and think" then give up on life, because you've already failed. Claiming that individuals as a society have been brainwashed by the very individuals of that society is probably the least logical thing I've ever read in a real debate. You're obviously not dumb, but I guess (since you admitted it yourself) you can't think for yourself. Bigbrother is bullshit. You're a cook. End story.
Being responsible has nothing to do with duty; at least, not in this thread. It has to do only with doing what's necessary to survive. You are extrapolating unneccssary circumastances on a simple scenario. Survival isn't something superimposed. Additiaonlly, if a person is so weakminded to have other people's thoughts, principles, etc "superimposed" onto them: It's probably for the best, because they lack the critical analysis skills necessary to be an independantly successful individual. I still call bullshit on the whole thing though.
After this post, everything else has just been unnecessary. This wins the thread.
Originally posted by Wighty
It's like the latest batch of MMO's are like a f'n Kevin Costner movie... <think Waterworld, the Postman, etc> they cost a FORTUNE, they sound like they may be good but then you just realized you sat around for 3 hours of WTF...
You do realise what retard means don't you?
After this post, everything else has just been unnecessary. This wins the thread.
Neonwire while i realise you're joking, I just can't help pointing out a few things. Some games do have epilepsy warnings. Warnings are everywhere and are part of modern life. I can't walk more than 10 meters in real life without seeing some sort of warning. If games, particularly MMOG's, had a warning label stating you may become addicted. Would it realy be that bad or unusual? It doesn't realy have to be a warning as such, just information. Pratically all products are required to display what goes into make that product. How else can you make an informed choice? Or do you just sense everything?
Do people know they have a peanut allergy before they eat a peanut? Do alcoholics realise that they will become addicted to alcohol before they drink?
But im not saying that the guy should have lived either. Think about all the signs that are on your local roads. You have learned through experience where all the dangerous places are and the speed limits before you even reach those zones. Inexperienced people do not. Not only that, warning signs prevent people from saying after the fact "Oh i didn't know". Imagine there were no road signs or markings or traffic lights. The chances of some idiot driving too fast and plowing into your car 'round a blind turn increase dramaticaly.
What happens every time somebody plays violent video games and goes and kills someone with a gun? Gamers get a bad rep. This is the same situation. Thats why safety signs were invented. To stop idiots killing intelligent people. Or in the very least ruining their favourite pastime.
After this post, everything else has just been unnecessary. This wins the thread.
Neonwire while i realise you're joking, I just can't help pointing out a few things. Some games do have epilepsy warnings. Warnings are everywhere and are part of modern life. I can't walk more than 10 meters in real life without seeing some sort of warning. If games, particularly MMOG's, had a warning label stating you may become addicted. Would it realy be that bad or unusual? It doesn't realy have to be a warning as such, just information. Pratically all products are required to display what goes into make that product. How else can you make an informed choice? Or do you just sense everything?
Do people know they have a peanut allergy before they eat a peanut? Do alcoholics realise that they will become addicted to alcohol before they drink?
But im not saying that the guy should have lived either. Think about the road and all the signs that are on your local roads. You have learned through experience where all the dangerous places are and the speed limits before you even reach those zones. Inexperienced people do not. Not only that, warning signs prevent people from saying after the fact "Oh i didn't know". Imagine there were no road signs or markings or traffic lights. The chances of some idiot driving too fast and plowing into your car 'round a blind turn increase dramaticaly.
What happens every time somebody plays violent video games and goes and kills someone with a gun? Gamers get a bad rep. This is the same situation. Thats why safety signs were invented. To stop idiots killing intelligent people. Or in the very least ruining their favourite pastime.
Epilepsy is invulentary. Not eating and sleeping is a choice. Society doesn't really need to warn people to quit being stupid. You can only make up so many excuses for them.
I don't really like any of your analogies because they are all very flawed.
Cars can kill other people simply by losing control over your vehicle. Cars are very lethal in every way which is why we need to study and pass test to be alowed to drive them. There are thousands of ways to die by accidents or intentionally that a person has absolutely no control over. You losing control over your vehicle can kill other people regardless of your mental state.
Games are not lethal in the same way. If a psychotic individual goes to a mall and starts shooting everybody after playing counter strike..guess what it wasn't counter strike that made him do it. It was the fact he was a psychotic lunatic and the game just a trigger out of many triggers that would have caused him to do so.
Games does not make you forget to sleep or eat. That is a concious choice. Ignoring your bodys warning signs is a choice.
Allergies are a dumb comparison as well now that we are at it. You can be alleric to anything even water. Should we put warning signs on everything because of that?. Yeah lets have a society that is completely covered with warning signs. Or we can just use common sense and the warning signs our body gives us that tells us we need sleep or need to eat.
People die in a lot of weird ways. When you consider how many people play MMORPGs, compared to how many people who have died because of them, it's probably hard to find anything with a lower death rate, really.
Sports - people get killed there all the time. Just recently, in my local team's baseball stadium, a drunk guy fell from the upper decks onto a woman (the guy is okay, the woman is critical). This happens fairly often, actually, maybe once a year at baseball stadiums.
Heck, just going outside to do anything, you can get killed. Lightning, meteorites, bears, sharks, the swine flu.
That said, I do think companies should consider limiting how much a person can play a game in 24 hours. I would say 10 hours, myself.
Because for some, gaming is an addiction. But unlike a lot of addictions, there is really no limitation to it. If you gamble, you run out of money. Drugs or Alcohol, you eventually run out of the drugs or alcohol, and have to go buy more (and again, the money issue).
That said, I don't think companies should be forced to include a limit. But they should consider doing it voluntarily. It would benefit them in the long run. Reduce server costs, reduce amount of content needed in game, etc.
R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there
Exactly. Finally someone gets it. If a gaming company limits a game to being played 30-40 hours a week. It doesn't effect normal people. Would anyone here actually care if there was such a restriction? And if you did does that mean you are actually addicted and in denial?
I mean publicans have to do training called the Responsible Serving of alcohol. If someone wants to drink themselves into oblivion, at home, fine. If they do it in a public bar would you want to be there when something goes wrong? Or to be responsible for fueling it?
Excellent points Trancejeremy.
And it could also reduce the impact of farmers botters etc.
Exactly. Finally someone gets it. If a gaming company limits a game to being played 30-40 hours a week. It doesn't effect normal people. Would anyone here actually care if there was such a restriction? And if you did does that mean you are actually addicted and in denial?
I mean publicans have to do training called the Responsible Serving of alcohol. If someone wants to drink themselves into oblivion, at home, fine. If they do it in a public bar would you want to be there when something goes wrong? Or to be responsible for fueling it?
Excellent points Trancejeremy.
And it could also eliminate alot of farmers botters etc.
Wow, I don't need anyone limiting my gaming or anything else. That's plain silly. I am an adult and if the wife and kids are gone, my work is done, and there aren't any distratctions I should be able to play as long as I want. There are members of the human race that just don't know where to draw the line. Don't punish those of us that do for the their sake.
It's gotten to the point where some MMOs have been reduced to little more than success dispensers. Don't think. Don't challenge yourself. Do as little as possible... but still be rewarded for it. Yeah.. *that's* fun.
-- WSIMike
Exactly. Finally someone gets it. If a gaming company limits a game to being played 30-40 hours a week. It doesn't effect normal people. Would anyone here actually care if there was such a restriction? And if you did does that mean you are actually addicted and in denial?
I mean publicans have to do training called the Responsible Serving of alcohol. If someone wants to drink themselves into oblivion, at home, fine. If they do it in a public bar would you want to be there when something goes wrong? Or to be responsible for fueling it?
Excellent points Trancejeremy.
And it could also reduce the impact of farmers botters etc.
And what about the thousands of people who play mmorpgs due to the fact they are physically disabled and homebound most of the time? So because a few wankers can't handle their shit, and bleeding hearts like yourself think it's okay to limit the fun of the many for the safety of the idiotic few, a person who is legitimately disabled and plays to enjoy the comraderie and mobility they no longer enjoy in the real world should suffer?
Good thing I live in the U.S.A. and not some backwater dictatorship like China. Because if companies start doing that here, I and the rest of the majority of NA gamers can just move to a game which doesn't limit our freedom due to evolutionary rejects. See how long those limited play games last here. Actually, that's a good thing, as I don't really see us in the NA/EU really missing 1000 asian grinders.
By the way, go to Nevada and try to force casinos to limit playtime for their customers. You'll have the same appropriate result others did when they tried: laughed out of the fuckin' court room.
You guys want warnings on games, that's fine.
WARNING: ONLINE GAMES MAY BE ADDICTIVE. BY PLAYING YOU HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY MISHAP
RESULTING FROM YOUR OWN INABILITY TO CONTROL YOUR GAMING HABITS ARE YOUR SOLE RESPONSIBILITY
AND WE WILL NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN ANY WAY FOR YOUR LACK OF SELF - CONTROL AND/OR LACK OF GOOD JUDGEMENT. PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK.
hehe remined me of the WOW southpark episode..how do you kill one with no life or whatever
Probably the same way you try to reason with a delusion.
lol, o noes someone died. careface. Why should you interfere with someone elses life? when they should be able to choose what they want to do. I think you would be better off advocating for people not to do drugs- yet it wouldn't matter also. Anyways im sure there are people out there dieing from something much more retarded, though I could give 2 shits.
BTW as you say "holding someone accountable" I do understand that it is human nature to want to place the blame on someone, but thats like saying sue water because people have died from consuming too much. social darwinism let it be.
As stated before they have no life. It isn't interfering if they aren't capable of deciding for themselves. Don't you agree?
Darwin was a social misfit and a dropout. And he founded the damn theory you gentlemen keep referring to.
Out of curiosity. Just how many people are needed in society? I mean the bear minimum.
Exactly.
........And it could also reduce the impact of farmers botters etc.
And what about the thousands of people who play mmorpgs due to the fact they are physically disabled and homebound most of the time? So because a few wankers can't handle their shit, and bleeding hearts like yourself think it's okay to limit the fun of the many for the safety of the idiotic few, a person who is legitimately disabled and plays to enjoy the comraderie and mobility they no longer enjoy in the real world should suffer?
Good thing I live in the U.S.A. and not some backwater dictatorship like China. Because if companies start doing that here, I and the rest of the majority of NA gamers can just move to a game which doesn't limit our freedom due to evolutionary rejects. See how long those limited play games last here. Actually, that's a good thing, as I don't really see us in the NA/EU really missing 1000 asian grinders.
By the way, go to Nevada and try to force casinos to limit playtime for their customers. You'll have the same appropriate result others did when they tried: laughed out of the fuckin' court room.
You guys want warnings on games, that's fine.
WARNING: ONLINE GAMES MAY BE ADDICTIVE. BY PLAYING YOU HEREBY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ANY MISHAP
RESULTING FROM YOUR OWN INABILITY TO CONTROL YOUR GAMING HABITS ARE YOUR SOLE RESPONSIBILITY
AND WE WILL NOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE IN ANY WAY FOR YOUR LACK OF SELF - CONTROL AND/OR LACK OF GOOD JUDGEMENT. PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK.
People who have lost limbs or the use of their legs can still lead an active lifestyle. They are not dependant on video games. Ever heard of the specialolympics? What percentage of gamers are that badly disabled that the only thing they can do is play video games? Would they be a viable marke on their ownt? I mean the USA is a proud free enterprise system.
China is a backwater? Grinders are all asian? There are only 1000? I don't think so.
We have the Freedom to do what we want? No limits? No laws?
I don't throw my money away on the hope of making making myself a big shot. I play MMORPG's ;D.
Excellent warning Wisebutcruel. Why would that be out of place in the current EULA's? Nobody reads them anyway, and the company can cover their ass. Legally.
"If some people got their rights, they would complain of being deprived of their wrongs." - OLIVER HERFORD
Borat.
If there had not been so many well thought out links I would have said this was a Troll thread.
What’s wrong with you guys society needs to hold our hand, we need our school qualifications given to us, a job handed to us on a plate and all of life’s woes comforted by the bosom of society. We are not destined to make our own decisions; that’s why we are not responsible for anything we do.
We all want to be identical freaks, contributing nothing, but assured of the supreme importance of our own individuality. We are responsible for nothing but deserving of everything.
Welcome to our brave new world.
Nobody cares if some idiot stays on the internet to long and dies.
However, I think there's a legitimate reason for putting in breaks on accounts on Pay to Play games. It can stop botting, gold farming, and sharing accounts.
Every time a new case of someone getting hospitalized or in extreme cases dying surfaces, I disagree more and more.
It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.
I hope this gets pointed out each time there is another death and I hope every single time, the game gets mentioned, the game company and if someone doesn't make a post on this forum about it, I will, because someone needs to start taking responsibilites for this and the blame should not solely be put on the player, often underaged mind you.
Every time a new case of someone getting hospitalized or in extreme cases dying, I disagree more and more.
It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.
I hope this get pointed out each time there is another death and I hope every single time, the game gets mentioned, the game company and if someone doesn't make a post on this forum about it, I will, because someone needs to start taking responsibilites for this and the blame should not solely be put on the player, often underaged mind you.
No sorry i can't disagree with you more. Thousands of people die everyday. Some from war, Some from plague, famine, suicide, cancer from smoking. heart attacks from poor eating habits etc etc etc. Death is a universal constant. You might not like it but its true. Do you hold the car makers accountable for every driver that dies in a accident from speeding or drinking and driving? Do you hold the gun makers responsible every time someone takes their own life with a gun? People do need to be responible for their own actions. Once you take away that accountablituy from ones own actions you trivialize humanity from living thinking beings with choices and consequences to mere objects controlled by their enviroment.
Yes that poor axe murderer may have killed several innocent people, but it wasn't his fault! The axe company made the axe too sharp he had to kill people with it!
Where does the placing blame on others stop? Its just always so much easier to place blame on others then to owe up and accept that perhaps we who actually do the actions are actually the ones at fault.
While we are at placing the blame on others who actually then is to blame? The game designers for making a good game people want to play? The parent who use the computers, and consul games as baby sitters because they are too busy to watch little junior? maybe its the schools for putting so much stress on little junior that he feels the need to want to escape into games anyway? maybe its the parent job that is at fault for placing demands on the parents that keep them from being able to properly watch their childern? No no it must be society as a whole then as its the need for money that drives the parent to work to provide for little junior, that in turn takes the parent away from being able to properly supervis him 24 hours a day!
The blame game is as easy to play as it is stupid
I honestly think its a bad topic to begin with...
But, these "sudden" deaths tell more about the person then the game.
There's really no limit to which I disagree with this statement.
If I choose to slash my wrists with a stainless steel carving knife:
1. The shop that sold me the knife is not responsible.
2. The distributor that supplied the knife to the shop is not responsible.
3. The manufacturor of the knife is not responsible.
4. The patent-holder for stainless steel is not responsible.
There's only one person ultimately responsible for my actions and that's me.
Expecting any of the above people to put a warning label on the knife saying "Warning! Do not use to slash wrists!" is frankly laughable. None of the parties bear any moral or legal responsibility to do so. Why do some of you feel that MMO's are different?
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Every time a new case of someone getting hospitalized or in extreme cases dying surfaces, I disagree more and more.
It's the responsibility of the game companies, the parents and the players, but fore and foremost the game companies since they provide the means to an end.
I hope this gets pointed out each time there is another death and I hope every single time, the game gets mentioned, the game company and if someone doesn't make a post on this forum about it, I will, because someone needs to start taking responsibilites for this and the blame should not solely be put on the player, often underaged mind you.
People die from addiction all the time both legal and illegal. If they are not willing to accept assistance than so be it. nothing2gein is right, people are responsible for themselves and the only thing that I would expect a supplier to do is include a disclaimer. Beyond that, they should not be held accountable for a person's stupidity. Just look at smoking, people know that it causes cancer but yet they pay $7-$10 a pack because they don't want to quit.
Underage death is a completely difference scenario. The new generation of parents are all "too busy" to attend to their child so instead plop them down in front of a TV or PC to keep them out of their hair. I believe that there should be a birth limiter installed in everyone at birth and if you are unable to pass an aptitude and financial test then no children for you.
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You wouldn't understand
Skipping posts after the OP and just say there are some mmo's that do give a warning to players to take a break. Overall parents are responsible for the children under 18, and over 18+ well your responsible for yourself. If your dumb enough to watse your life at a computer screen all day and week then your an idiot no lifer than deserves what happens, I hate to be blunt but it's the truth and it sometimes hurts to hear it so.
There's really no limit to which I disagree with this statement.
If I choose to slash my wrists with a stainless steel carving knife:
1. The shop that sold me the knife is not responsible.
2. The distributor that supplied the knife to the shop is not responsible.
3. The manufacturor of the knife is not responsible.
4. The patent-holder for stainless steel is not responsible.
There's only one person ultimately responsible for my actions and that's me.
Expecting any of the above people to put a warning label on the knife saying "Warning! Do not use to slash wrists!" is frankly laughable. None of the parties bear any moral or legal responsibility to do so. Why do some of you feel that MMO's are different?
You cannot compare completely different scenarios, make analogies which suit your argument and make conclusions out of them.
There is no denying that these games are very addictive and that when they come into the hands of people who cannot control their playtime, eating and sleeping habits, that the game is influencing them so much that the game is directly related to, and was a contibuter to, their death.
That makes the game companies responsible. Whether these people would still be alive if they were not introduced to those game is a question that needs to be asked.
There's really no limit to which I disagree with this statement.
If I choose to slash my wrists with a stainless steel carving knife:
1. The shop that sold me the knife is not responsible.
2. The distributor that supplied the knife to the shop is not responsible.
3. The manufacturor of the knife is not responsible.
4. The patent-holder for stainless steel is not responsible.
There's only one person ultimately responsible for my actions and that's me.
Expecting any of the above people to put a warning label on the knife saying "Warning! Do not use to slash wrists!" is frankly laughable. None of the parties bear any moral or legal responsibility to do so. Why do some of you feel that MMO's are different?
You cannot compare completely different scenarios, make analogies which suit your argument and make conclusions out of them.
There is no denying that these games are very addictive and that when they come into the hands of people who cannot control their playtime, eating and sleeping habits, that the game is influencing them so much that the game is directly related to, and was a contibuter to, their death.
That makes the game companies responsible. Whether these people would still be alive if they were not introduced to those game is a question that needs to be asked.
Again, you cannot hold a company responsible for a person's shortcomings. You don't see Jack Daniels assuming responsibility for alcoholism and you don't see Phillip Morris assuming responsibility for cancer related death. Why? Because people are aware of the potential risks of negligence and abuse.
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You wouldn't understand
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift