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Whats missing in todays MMOs
cybertrucker
Member UncommonPosts: 1,117
I was talking to a friend earlier today about things that are really missing in MMOs these days. For the most part I will have to say that MMOs have come a long way in terms of UI layouts and neat little tricks to help out the players, but with all that being said. Todays MMOs and future MMOs from the looks of it, are lacking some of the things that I think made so many of the older MMOs like EQ1 and DAoC stand out, making it seem like something is always missing in the games we play today.
For one I would start of with Character Utility. While its true that they still have buffs you can get from different classes. its not like in the days of EQ1 when a certain class has that one buff or set of buffs you couldnt do without. Even if you didnt have a member of said class in your team you would seek them out. Everyone who has played EQ1 at least back in the older days remembers seeking out Enchanters for the clarity spells or at higher levels KEI. or a shaman or druid for Spirit of the wolf for a run speed buff.
Along with the buffs, but also part of the utility line of spells were spells like Ressurrection which actually meant something. Or Teleport spells. Dont get me wrong I love having riftways and things making travel easier. But giving classes the ability to go places that were out of the way, gave those classes a service that could be in high demand. Sometimes it could be used for story or fluff even added to gameplay. I know some people would complain that it wasnt fair that those classes could do those things and the class they were playing couldnt. Therefore it wasnt balanced. But in that it also added more distinction between the classes. It gave classes utility that could be used outside of combat. It added to the community as well. I remember making friends with druids and wizards back in the days of EQ that would come pick me up and take me to a far off land. I would donate to them for their time just like you would pay a crafter for their time and effort. But you actually got to know people that would provide their services and sometimes become friends with them.
Another thing I remember was world effects... I know the games today look a thousand times better than back in those days with great lighting and such. But I remember going into a dungeon in EQ that was supposed to be dark and guess what...It actually was dark. I mean I had to go get me a lightstone or have a site buff cast on me by yes another player so I could really actually see in that dungeon. For all the good lighting and shadow effects in games today, they sure seemed to forget that those deep dark dungeons should actually sometimes be dark. I remember back when I watched my first video trailer of EQ2 and them bragging about the lighting effects and shadows playing across the walls and being so excited about how amazing it looked. But you know when the game launched (which in all honesty I did not care for EQ2 and only played it about 5 months) I never experianced the feeling I did when I first fell down a hole in Befallen and was in pitch black darkness I heard the skeletons come for me. I heard my character scream out when he was being hit and then Death... In all that I couldnt see anything due to the fact I was a human and had human eyesite. It was pretty intense. EQ2 never did that for me. Actually no game has since.
In closing I guess I would have to say while many improvements have been made. There are many elements I personally believe Developers today overlook. Elements that make the game more immersive. Or elements that help to help build community or distinguish people outside of combat not based on some tradeskill that anyone can pick up but something that is based off the decision THEY made when picking their class.
I just figured I would share my thoughts, for all there worth with the community here.
Comments
Immersion features are lacking, or totally missing, in today's MMORPGs.
Developers, either on their own or under the guidance of their managers, want us to be drones: play the same content, before it was raiding, over-and-over again and pay 15.00 a month.
We like to do different things. It is cost-efficient for them to create a game of no world exploration, character customization, or innovative features. They just want to basically copy WoW, breach the break-even point, and keep us addicted.
People want to play a "game" and
I want to experience an MMORPG "world"
The tension is the appropriate balance between game and world
SWG Pre CU I feel is missing because it nailed alot of things on the head which no other mmorpg is doing that I want every mmorpg to have. Just a shame no developers will take some of the mechanics seriously cause SOE made the game so broken and never fixed the problems.
I never actually played SWG...So I'm not sure exactly what your talking about. I did think it ws neat the way they originally had Jedi at least from what I heard.
Ohh here is another thing I forgot to mention above.
Magic Items. In todays games players start getting loaded down with Magic items that give bonuses to stats etc etc at like level 1 and 2. I remember in EQ when I got my first magical robe which was a Flowing Black Robe (remember those) I was level 24 and thought I was uber. It was a moment in MMO history that I dont think I will forget. Was it powerful? no not really but I felt I worked for it.
I remember helping my friend aquire an entire suit of Bronze Plate mail which he wore with pride. We worked out butts off for that Non Magical Bronze It wasnt untill the Late 20s and early 30s that he completed the the set. I remember when he finally got his first magical Breastplate, even as excited as he was to get it. He was almost sad to see it go.
In todays games its like every few levels you just trash your last piece of equipment. Hardly any items really mean anything.
Community and finding a way to make a game successfully community based. Graphics are fine , gameplay is somewhat fine but I know it will start going through changes soon after the next 5 years or so has passed. If I want to play a single player game and have that experience there are plently of excellent JRPGS I have that I can play , I don't play mmos to solo play all day , it kind of defeats the purpose imo.
Well, there are other and funnier things than just buffs to make a class needed. Like traps that you need a thief to disarm...
As for the world effects I agree. You should be forced to have some kind of lightning in a dungeon if you're not playing a dwarf or goblin or something. I would go s astep further and make stuff like being wet, cold, very hot and so on also matters. In Vanguard your characters clothes looks wet ehrn it rains but it doesnt affect the character in any ways.
And fog could be used in some zones to limit visibility and makes things intresting. Wind should affect archery and so should rain (try to shoot a bow or worse, a musket, in rain or a storm).
Todays modern computers could easily implement these things, heck, the new GFX cards supports stuff like snow (that actually can melt or stay) so you could have seasons in games.
But most devs seems to want to make the games easier and without any realism. This is ok for aa specific game but nor for all games, a few more realistic games would be nice.
I 100% agree with the OP.
People complained about travel timesinks so they gave us travel mounts
People complained about camp spots, camp lists, mob grinds so they gave us instances and quests
People complained about class dependency and the holy trinity so they gave us multiple skills and multiple classes to fit the same functions and roles.
People complained about corpse recovery and exp loss so they gave us zero consequences for dying.
People complained that buffs had too much impact on gameplay so they took them away and gave us only a few
People complained, complained and complained some more and now we have World of Warcraft pleasing the masses where everything is made more accessible easier and less time consuming.
This is the evolution of MMORPGs and it can solely be blamed on players and not developers
People no longer want their MMORPG to become a second job
People no longer want death penalties
People no longer want to be forced into grouping
People do not want consequences for their behavior which ties directly into being able to solo and get most if not all of what the game has to offer in terms of great gear and levels. That way they can say FU and not care about being blacklisted
Thank god someone feels the same way I Do
But IMO The real problem here is that game companys now a days that make MMO"s want to cater to the "casual gamer" not to the "hard-core gamer"
Also I will point out somthing here that has been majorly missed. I have been playing these MMO's ever since i was a kid, and I can say the classic games were the best. These new games comming out nowadays are just plain crap compared to the older games. Simply because ...
1.) There is not enough content in MMOS anymore, (I find I just get so bored by most MMO's just because of this)
2.) Crafting system is simplistic
3.) Game seems simplistic and simple. It's like playing a single player RPG
4.) Game is to easy, no challange whatsoever
5.) Everyone can attain Epic or Rare loot and hardly have to put any effort into their characters anymore. So you see everyone running around with the same armor sets/weapons (World of Warcraft is a perfect example of this)
You would think the MMO"s would be better now a days with all this new technology but apperantly not.
::Note:: I'm talking about the new MMO's that have been released in the last 2 years. NOT the old ones.
The Orginal Starwars Galaxies, and Everquest were the 2 best MMO"s I had ever played. And Nothing.... NOTHING has ever compared to those 2 great games ever since I stopped playing them both, And it AMAZES me to this very day that no game company yet has taken some ideas from these 2 once great games and put them into a new MMO.
My Artwork http://tras-h.deviantart.com
Vanguard is on life support and there it will stay until it dies. Not a good example of where the genre is at right now
You know I bet alot of time is also spent with all the different items they feel they have to give the players to be happy.
I remember trying DDO online for a bit which of coarse had a simpler system. Give players items with different looks ... magical effects not so much. Items that effect characters stats should be rarer. Make them matter. Not only would it be ALOT less time consuming to have to figure out literally thousands of different it stat combinations but it would make those rarer items that did improve stats mean alot more.
So, the developers are brilliant masterminds using some secret mindcontrol marketing tactic that is making millions of MMO gamers pay $15 a month for years to do something that they don't like? Or are you saying tha tthe average MMO gamer is just THAT STUPID that they they'll pay for years for something they do not enjoy?
Maybe... and, please, keep an open mind here... maybe the direction of many of today's MMOs is the results of what is most popular among players. Maybe most gamers want a very basic zero-consequence game and they are smart enough to pay for the games that offer that to them.
Isn't it possible that EQ2, WOW and LOTRO are doing well right now because they are giving players what they want?
Or do you really really think that MMO gamers are just the most stupid and most easily controlled idiot to walk the face of the earth?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
For the most part I agree with you... and I'm more or less the kinda person you are talking about... not all of those apply too me, but, yeah...
For me, one of the biggest issues with current MMO's is the "counter and courier" mentality of quests... (Kill # of mobs, Collect # of items. Go to Location)
A "counter" quest is easily reusable code, so it tends to be over implemented.
A "courier" location is useful for moving people to different content.
One of the things that hooked me about EQ was the "odd item" quests... Where I would pick up an item and wonder what it was for, and so I would spend a day searching every town I could get to until I found the related quests. Now you can check any of a dozen websites and get the information in an few seconds, while faster and helped to clear out bag space, it also reduced the fun of discovery. I also think this is a reason why I see a lot of the same people in the alpha/beta games, but rarely see them in the released games for more then a month or two.
Almost to the minute of a major MMO release whole websites appear dedicated to giving you all the information about the quests you could possily want. While in EQ and some other older MMO's this was needed because of the speed of text scrolling, most current MMO's now seperate the quest dialog much better, but has become less relevant... An example: In World of Warcraft I found an obvious spelling error in one of the low level zones that had been overlooked for 2 years, when I looked up the quest on various WoW resources, they had the same mistake. For 2 years people overlooked the error, this says to me that by the time the player arrived in that area, reading the quests was a very low priority.
But as to what makes current MMO's like "World of Warcraft" more popular... Color. Lots of primary colors. "Lord of the Rings" is another one. When I played that, I had a couple of "Holy moley!" moments when I saw some really awesome.
When I was playing EQ2, Warhammer, Vanguard and innumerable others, they look like oatmeal... The color palette is so "realistic" that the game is visually boring. When the edge of a cliff blurs in to the horizon that you can step off it, even when looking for it, that is bad...
I play MMO's as a way to relax and enjoy myself. I want to be visually inspired. Looking at 256 shades of beige is boring. When I go outside and look around, I can see a lot more color then that. Maybe they need to take the developers outside once a week and let them look around... *Grin*
I agree with the OP 100% as well. My first mmo was EQ and I loved it. Then I started playing DAOC. Loved it as well. Both had some key elements that made it fun. I played a cleric on EQ and made a living and friends over giving people rez's. It forced community. DAOC's combat system made it so everyone wanted to try and fight. Now they both had bad sides as well but now its just the same game over and over again. Not completed, lies about content, and just nonsense.
The fact of the matter is, the features that have been removed to cater to the so-called "casual gamers" have left us with hollow shells of games. Now, I am a casual gamer, and I have never considered the older, harder MMO's to be a second job as so many people like to say. I consider the older, more deep games to be adventurous and social. Being a casual player, I have adopted the idea that 'the journey is the destination'. I've never wanted or expected game devs to make these games simpler just so I can level faster or solo as a casual player.
From my perspective, here are just a few things I believe are missing in many modern MMO's:
1) non-combat classes such as dedicated crafters, entertainers, scientists, doctors, etc. Most people say they don't care about this type of game play, but in the games I have played that offered non-combat character building, nearly everyone rolled an alt to take advantage of it. It's nice to be able to unplug from combat. In SWG there were times when I would go a whole week without logging into my combat toon, because I was busy enjoying other types of game play.
2) rich crafting / resource gathering systems. Let's face it, the modern idea of crafting and resource gathering feels like a tacked-on afterthought these days. Game devs treat it like a legacy feature that they have to support for a while longer before they completely eliminate it. This is also partially due to #1 on my list, above, because since there are no dedicated crafting classes for people to play, there is no need for the game devs to make the systems interesting to use. SWG did crafting right if you ask me.
3) The Auction House concept sucks. While it may be faster for everyone to use, it destroys a huge potential gold mine of social interaction. The real reason they implement Auction Houses is because they are much simpler to code than a game play system that allows people to sell their own goods out of their own shops. The down side is, no one cares about the people behind the crafted items, and no relationships are formed. In past games I made friends with crafters, traded with them, sold resources to them, and generally built some amazing relationships. The good crafters on a server were well known for their quality and social skills, and they were sought out BY NAME by other players. You made time to TRAVEL to their shops, and you were disappointed if you were unable to chat with the owner while shopping. Today? Who cares, go to the AH, pay money, get item in the mail. Yawn.
4) Rich Community. This goes hand in hand with the items above. While many people just prefer to play combat and level grind, there is a group of people out there who would love to concentrate on community development and playing non-combat roles. These people bring spice to the game for EVERYONE on the server whether you care about this type of play or not. Without these people and the game systems to keep them around, the games just become mechanical level grinding and loot lusting games that are very close cousins to slot machines or video poker machines you find in bars and casinos around the world. They aren't designed to give you an interesting experience or true adventure, they are designed to hook you, take your money, and send you packing down the road when your wallet is empty. The illusion of fun is really just addiction in disguise.
I could write a much larger list, but I will leave you with what I have posted above and add that I believe the focus on leveling and combat above all else is what has ruined these games. People who are playing MMO's now will inevitably get tired of them and start looking for deeper entertainment in this genre or others. It may take them 2-3 years, but it will hit them the same way it has hit us. Indeed it was the lack of innovation in First Person Shooters that led me to the MMO genre. There are scores of players on this site alone who played WoW for two years, and say they can't stand all the wow-clones anymore.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
The Immersive Features have been replaced with mini-games in todays mmos.......
God help us.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
The Immersive Features have been replaced with mini-games in todays mmos.......
God help us.
Personally, i like the minigames like the one I just saw was added to L2 and such, but I can see how someone looking for an immerssive semi-realistic virtual world could want the development efforts directed elsewhere.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Last 2 years I have tried every major release but still feel empty
AOC , WAR , TR , darkfall online etc ...
So, the developers are brilliant masterminds using some secret mindcontrol marketing tactic that is making millions of MMO gamers pay $15 a month for years to do something that they don't like? Or are you saying tha tthe average MMO gamer is just THAT STUPID that they they'll pay for years for something they do not enjoy?
Maybe... and, please, keep an open mind here... maybe the direction of many of today's MMOs is the results of what is most popular among players. Maybe most gamers want a very basic zero-consequence game and they are smart enough to pay for the games that offer that to them.
Isn't it possible that EQ2, WOW and LOTRO are doing well right now because they are giving players what they want?
Or do you really really think that MMO gamers are just the most stupid and most easily controlled idiot to walk the face of the earth?
It's a fact that most of the gamers playing MMO's right now have NO CLUE what it was like to play the richer, more interesting MMO's the past. Most of them were brought into the genre via WoW, and so that limited feature set is all they expect to see in these games. They wouldn't know the first thing about what they are missing out on.
I've been around PC gaming online since the beginning, and it's not very old. The rise in gaming popularity has gone hand in hand with the rise of high speed internet saturation and the growth of the internet. WoW was the right game at the right time to get the subscriber numbers they had, and probably the biggest reason it has achieved this is because you can play it on just about any computer. This opened up PC gaming in WoW to most of the computer-owning world.
I have seen more and more ex-wow players on these forums complaining about the lack of innovation in the newer games. While games like WoW will remain healthy for quite some time, it's also true that the part of the community which is becoming SICK TO DEATH of these hollow shell games is also growing. Watch how many people end up leaving WoW for Diablo just because it wlil prove more interesting than continuing on with WoW is.
I also believe that the first company who can make an interesting MMO which is somewhere in the middle of being "all themepark" and "all sandbox" will have a goldmine on their hands. It may not reach WoW numbers, but it will still be huge.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
What's missing?
Attention and depth to non-combat and/or supporting game systems that give representation to worlds being more interactive by the large AAA companies making MMOs. As the two most recent releases by such companies, WAR and AOC are shining examples of combat focused creative efforts. Comparing their other social, non-combat systems to those of AC or SWG and it is easy to see they fall far short.
Alot of work needs to be done by this industry to just bring those two sides (combat and non-combat) to relative equal levels and provide a rounded, interactive social experience that was a large part of what this genre was founded on.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Ok I hope you don't take this the wrong way, because I don't mean it in an offensive way, but you apparently have not played anything other then "Vanguard"!!! Vanguard is the only game out on the market that does NOT have a "simplistic crafting system". I'm not talking about Vanguard though I'm talking about The majority of new MMO's that are on the market that are "NEW" Vanguard is NOT a new game it's been out for awhile. All of your points are about Vanguard? I am talking about the New MMORPGS that have been released in the last 2 years.
And being a Graphic Designer, Web Developer, and a Computer Programmer I can tell you "High quality 3d stuff" has nothing too do with the amount of content in a MMO
Vanguard is a good game though
My Artwork http://tras-h.deviantart.com
I think you nailed it, for me anyway. This is what I'm wanting in an MMO.
Future mmos should not have official forums. All they are are cesspools for 1%ers to endlessly complain and attempt to dictate how the game should be for the other 99%.
Nothing adds to the enjoyment of playing an mmo than completely avoiding the official forums.
So, the developers are brilliant masterminds using some secret mindcontrol marketing tactic that is making millions of MMO gamers pay $15 a month for years to do something that they don't like? Or are you saying tha tthe average MMO gamer is just THAT STUPID that they they'll pay for years for something they do not enjoy?
Maybe... and, please, keep an open mind here... maybe the direction of many of today's MMOs is the results of what is most popular among players. Maybe most gamers want a very basic zero-consequence game and they are smart enough to pay for the games that offer that to them.
Isn't it possible that EQ2, WOW and LOTRO are doing well right now because they are giving players what they want?
Or do you really really think that MMO gamers are just the most stupid and most easily controlled idiot to walk the face of the earth?
It's a fact that most of the gamers playing MMO's right now have NO CLUE what it was like to play the richer, more interesting MMO's the past. Most of them were brought into the genre via WoW, and so that limited feature set is all they expect to see in these games. They wouldn't know the first thing about what they are missing out on.
I've been around PC gaming online since the beginning, and it's not very old. The rise in gaming popularity has gone hand in hand with the rise of high speed internet saturation and the growth of the internet. WoW was the right game at the right time to get the subscriber numbers they had, and probably the biggest reason it has achieved this is because you can play it on just about any computer. This opened up PC gaming in WoW to most of the computer-owning world.
I have seen more and more ex-wow players on these forums complaining about the lack of innovation in the newer games. While games like WoW will remain healthy for quite some time, it's also true that the part of the community which is becoming SICK TO DEATH of these hollow shell games is also growing. Watch how many people end up leaving WoW for Diablo just because it wlil prove more interesting than continuing on with WoW is.
I also believe that the first company who can make an interesting MMO which is somewhere in the middle of being "all themepark" and "all sandbox" will have a goldmine on their hands. It may not reach WoW numbers, but it will still be huge.
I couldn't agree with you more here. Alot of these kids have no clue about the old classics or what real MMO"S were like back in the day. I personally believe that 15 year olds kids, and the combination of casual gamers have ruined the MMO market, but of course I'm just looking for someone to blame and being ignorant at the same time. Ignorance is bliss isnt it?
My Artwork http://tras-h.deviantart.com
Complex item/class/skill system. For one thing I loved AO is the minimalistic approach for level-locking items. This allowed players to equip items that devs originaly might not have even thought about them equiping. Also what's wrong with 43 item slots? Ofc it was kinda of cellsheet game, but still overly simplistic systems won't work as fine after something like that. Twinking in AO was a sub game, knowing the right items, best buffs, ways to fit them on your charter to get something else on which in part helped you to get on the item which was your goal.
Any similiar games around btw?