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I am so glad that AOC and WAR are failing
Ravanos
Member Posts: 897
maybe this will show Developers out there that the WoW style of game is getting old and people would rather play WoW instead of WoW with Warhammer skins, or Conan skins. thank god the NGE failed so developers can see that we don't want WoW with starwars skins (SW:TOR im looking at you).
maybe this will usher in a new era of quality MMOs, just too bad those wont be out for a couple years.
Comments
I think in the end AoC will be better than Warhammer.
For me personally, Lord of the Rings Online is the best MMO out right now, in my opinion. Its nice to play with a great community and an epic story..
AoC is not much like wow. It is in the fact that you have buttons on a bar you push. You also follow quests and kill mobs with spells and swords. SO ya in those respects its like wow.
WHen I first installed WAR i remember thinking to myself this is wow 2.0. But the whole idea behind the game isnt very wowish.
These games failing dont show developers anything. It does show them that they have to be more like WOW to suceed. They will look at AoC and WAR and think to themselves "how can we more wowify these games?"
Why be glad when any game fails. It doesnt bring the genre forward. Only money does.
I am afraid that you are right. AoC do have one brilliant feature and that is the fact that you hit what you swings it at, whatever your target is. The combo system in itself isnt that good but the collision detection system really is. I hope to see this in other games too.
WAR also have some very nice points but choosing the Wow system instead of Games workshops own system was a big misstake that turned most of the old warhammer fans and the old DaoC fans away from it
But both games still have nice features so it is not good that they are failing, we will just get games even closer to Wow instead.
You should never want a game to fail because in the long run it costs you time and money. That time you can never recover and money that might have been used elsewhere.
MAGA
I hope both of those games do better, im not the type of guy that wants a MMO to fail.
I tried WAR for a month and change and tbh the game is very group focused (which I like) but at the same time the servers are empty during non-primtime hours so i left.
Also I dont think either of these games are anything like WoW.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I agree with templarga.
And I also don't really think WAR and AoC are much like WoW. I think if they were I wouldn't be able to play WAR for as long as I have already.
This. Recently we've seen countless games who's only valid reason for launching was due to monetary concerns.
VG, AOC, WAR, Hellgate London, POTBS, TR and a few I'm sure I forgot. Only LotRO seemed to release with the planned content intact, though many decry it was too small at release.( They can be excused for this due to the frequent free expansions they've been putting in ever since.)
To me, this factor alone is what doomed almost every one of the above listed games. Developers need to learn how to develop software more efficiently so they can deliver the game within the budget management has set out for them. Working until the suits finally scream 'enough' and force the software out the door is destroying this genre.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Since none of those games are like WoW except for questing and WAR's combat... you're just another drone looking for some people to back you up in your opinion. Or should I say, someone else's opinion.
WoW is like the mainframe for an MMO. WoW's innovation is/was auto attack, X/10 quests, and grinding, all in a user-friendly atmosphere.
What else do those games 'copy'?
Really? You dont think part of the games problem is that they tried to beat Wow at it's own game?
Sure, launching way too early and cutting promised content (and both being too small) helps but if they have been more of their own games and less looking at Wow I still think they had done better of themselves.
Both have better worlds than Wow, Warhammer is mapped in extreme detail (which Mythic largly ignore 'cept Altdorf, and that was just because GW said they pull the license if they dont changed it to look as it should. Howards world is also well mapped and good while Wows have been made up as the games Warcraft 1-3 was made.
There is a Wow already and it is still a year or 2 before it is so old that a similar game with better graphics can steal its subs, if even then.
Blame EA and SOE, they are the Banks and GM of the gaming world.
Really? You dont think part of the games problem is that they tried to beat Wow at it's own game?
Sure, launching way too early and cutting promised content (and both being too small) helps but if they have been more of their own games and less looking at Wow I still think they had done better of themselves.
Both have better worlds than Wow, Warhammer is mapped in extreme detail (which Mythic largly ignore 'cept Altdorf, and that was just because GW said they pull the license if they dont changed it to look as it should. Howards world is also well mapped and good while Wows have been made up as the games Warcraft 1-3 was made.
There is a Wow already and it is still a year or 2 before it is so old that a similar game with better graphics can steal its subs, if even then.
Why would any developer try to bring people from a PvE game and convert them into PvP players that WAR and AoC are aimed for?
Probably because they wouldn't. If they said 'We want to kill WoW' then I would agree with you. Only the fanbois say that. Don't get the two confused, because more often than not, they are.
Unfortunately, the devs can be superhuman in their attempts at cramming everything an overzealous game director, or marketing talking head can think up to throw at them, and still come up short. Why? Directors, many times (and often with marketing's influence) tend to change their minds after they have already set a decision. These changes have reprecussions that few other than actual devs, realize. TR was a HUGE example of this. AoC also looked greatly different before the last year or so of dev phase. The original AoC was bigger, more visceral, and seemed to have far more content in the works. I cannot comment on WAR, as my open awareness about it only came after PB and MJ started their speels. And like many other talking heads before them, they got it wrong and are probably largely to blame for the state of WAR at launch, not the actual devs.
The devs are commonly the untold antiheroes of mmos. We don't get the fame, because our names are not often in the news articles for the games we are working on. We do our best given the resources and time we are given, which is often too little too late. No, it is the curse of the average dev to become the villian, when we are but footsoldiers to the real Hitlers- the marketing department, and the occasional overzealous game director.
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
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"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
I think both games had some interesting concepts behind them and could have been great.
AoC went overboard with the graphics and instancing. To me the instancing and zoning make the game feel a lot less like a world and totally kill the game for me, it doesn't feel like an MMO to me. Missing content and tons of features advertised not in game, horrible decision to release. As much as I hated the instancing and zoning, if AoC had stayed in development another 6months to 1 year and released about where its at now, I could see it holding 400-500k subs for a couple years.
I have not experienced WAR past level 20, but thats because the game runs so bad I end up quitting. MMOs absolutely have to be optimized and run well when they release. Most MMO vets won't put up with a client that runs slow and stuttery, not when they can go back to their previous game which already runs smooth. Its hard enough to keep subscriptions, don't shoot yourself in the foot by releasing your game running the way WAR does.
MMOs have ONE chance to make their impression when they release, make sure the game is ready and don't blow your only shot.
Are you saying that WoW pioneered the auto-attack?
If so, that is very, very wrong.
Are you saying that WoW pioneered the auto-attack?
If so, that is very, very wrong.
Not to mention, someone obviously forgot all about macroed autoattacks, mission terminals, and holocron grinding....
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
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--
"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
Im so glad your post is failing !!!! Ignorant people are amusing.
Are you saying that WoW pioneered the auto-attack?
If so, that is very, very wrong.
Not necessarily, but it is the most fluent combat style on the market in any game, so I'd say they were the first ones that nailed it, yea.
Now you say AOC and WAR are failing and your glad, the concept is what in your view is a faliure. Eve online has a steady population that hovers around the 40k mark. To eve that is a success.
Warhammer for most daoc players was in effect DAOC 2, the problem was Mythic implemented an excellent RVR system and then put scenarios in because the WOW comunity had them. Scenarios RUINED the game totally yes it made rvr almost instantanious and you could do it anywhere. But in that same vein NOONE went to the open RVR objectives, a key aspect of the game. So the game felt empty because everyone was in their own little scenario instances chain killing the same people.
AOC shot themselves in the foot by aiming the game at 18+ that in itself already limits their user base, then they released a very very machine hungry engine that reduced it even further. They then had a unforgivable Memory leak that memory leak should have been cleared 1 week after release. Instead it stayed there for somthing like 3 to 6 months (i think) the player base can forgive missing content but to constnatly crash your computer or require restarts most will give up before the free month ends. They may have fixed it now but still people have a bad taste in their mouth about the release.
Pretty sure all the eve players and the company that runs eve believe they have more than 40k id say that to them thats a gross underestimation, I dont actually know though.
Correction.
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
Played- SWG (pre-cu), AoC, VG, WoW, LoTRO,CoX, EQ2, DAOC, GW, PotBS, Aion, MO,APB, NASA, Fallen Earth, DCUO, Rift
Playing- EVE, Black Prophecy, TOR
Waiting for- Tera, Jumpgate Evo, WH40K, WWE, WOD, TSW
--
--
"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
Really? You dont think part of the games problem is that they tried to beat Wow at it's own game?
Sure, launching way too early and cutting promised content (and both being too small) helps but if they have been more of their own games and less looking at Wow I still think they had done better of themselves.
Both have better worlds than Wow, Warhammer is mapped in extreme detail (which Mythic largly ignore 'cept Altdorf, and that was just because GW said they pull the license if they dont changed it to look as it should. Howards world is also well mapped and good while Wows have been made up as the games Warcraft 1-3 was made.
There is a Wow already and it is still a year or 2 before it is so old that a similar game with better graphics can steal its subs, if even then.
Why would any developer try to bring people from a PvE game and convert them into PvP players that WAR and AoC are aimed for?
Probably because they wouldn't. If they said 'We want to kill WoW' then I would agree with you. Only the fanbois say that. Don't get the two confused, because more often than not, they are.
Murdus is right. Anyone who actually paid attention to the developers & their development cycle know that they were trying to 'wowify' their games only in the sense of making them user friendly, so as to not turn away too many players. As much as the hardcore love their hardcore games, it's been proven time and time again that they don't bring in the big bucks. While this may be fine for some games, it's much more risky when making an MMO. MMOs are always a huge financial gamble.
I Hope these games do turn around tbh. AoC's failing is simple. Funcom has a long history of blowing smoke up people's ***** for years while they try and pump content into their games. They did the same with AO and it took them around a decade to get the game to an enjoyable state.
WAR's failing, though I think it's still too early to call the game a 'failure', is this. It tried to be too many things, too quickly. It went through too many changes during development; big changes that effect the whole design of the game. They went from a small studio -> a large studio half way in. They lost a lot of people towards the end of development (which is the worst time to lose people). They tried to generate too much hype, too quickly. Part of this was very real planning on Blizzard's side. They marketted WotLK perfectly to try and thwart WAR and AoC's releases.
WAR went from being a scenario-grind MMO to trying to be a revamp of some of the key DAoC features, about half-way into development. It's very difficult to do a sweeping change of this magnetude to a game that late in the game, but I do give them kudos for doing it. We are seeing the results now, though. It plays like a game that is stuck somewhere between a full-blown RvR game, and a game of questing / scenario grinding (which most people associate with WoW).
The lack of content is something with which almost every MMO suffers, even WoW did at launch. I think it's about time players remembered that. It's extremely difficult, if not impossible, to deliver an MMO with as much content as people want at release. Player's expectations have gotten ridiculously inflated. They want significantly larger, fuller games, with better graphics, and they want the to be released sooner. It would take closer to 10years to develope on many of the demands players are asking for now, and most players would still abandon the game when it finally did get released.
If anything 'good' were to come out of this year's round of MMOs, I would hope it would be that more companies are daring to try something new. However, after seeing the responses of games such as Spellborne (which are / should be phenomenal) I wouldn't blame developers for steering away from that route for now.
Really? Other games like Guildwars have very good and fluent combat systems too. Wow just tuned EQs system a bit, so if anyone nailed that it was EQ.
Wows big point was that it was the first MMO that everyone could play without spending a lot of time to learn it. Together with good programming (First Strain and then Kaplan) and the fact that EQ was too old just when it released made it big.
You dont have placeholders and stuff other MMOs at the time hold and you can solo a lot of the content. And of course, Blizzard had many fans already and they have always been good of giving their fans what they want.
To Op:
You should never want games to fail. I agree that companies shouldnt put out crap games, but that in itself is up to the person playing the game to judge for themselves.
If game companies fail left and right many investors may not be so quick invest into a game with great potential or many games may not be made at all.
Ask yourself this question....Do you really want to get stuck with the Asian anime grinders?...because this is what will happen.
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD