Wow, there are some real soon to be disallusioned people in this thread. $15 a month is rather significant for some and insignificant for others. Insulting someone because they are questioning the value of subscription fees is ridiculous and childish. My fiance was laid off two months ago and my contracts have been steadily reducing since last year. I can afford to pay $15 a month for numerous subscriptions, but the day my fiance was laid off I became a lot pickier and cancelled all but one subscription. $15 may not seem like a lot of cash to everyone, but considering how many MMO players have multiple subscriptions it all adds up fast. If nothing else then the not so stellar economy is a good excuse to start demanding higher quality games for the same subscription fee. Almost every company seems to think they can release crap and charge us $50 for the box and $15 a month and that needs to change if we want to see worthwhile MMOs developed.
This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.
Wow, there are some real soon to be disallusioned people in this thread. $15 a month is rather significant for some and insignificant for others. Insulting someone because they are questioning the value of subscription fees is ridiculous and childish. My fiance was laid off two months ago and my contracts have been steadily reducing since last year. I can afford to pay $15 a month for numerous subscriptions, but the day my fiance was laid off I became a lot pickier and cancelled all but one subscription. $15 may not seem like a lot of cash to everyone, but considering how many MMO players have multiple subscriptions it all adds up fast. If nothing else then the not so stellar economy is a good excuse to start demanding higher quality games for the same subscription fee. Almost every company seems to think they can release crap and charge us $50 for the box and $15 a month and that needs to change if we want to see worthwhile MMOs developed.
This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.
I'm sorry, but I have to completely and utterly disagree. I don't have money to "throw away", and I'm certain plenty of people here don't either. However, $15 a month when compared to the other expenses of living is completely and utterly microscopic. I subscribe to one game at a time. My attention span and preferences don't require me having 3-4 subs running at a time (there's a huge difference between $15 and $60 - about 4x in fact). We're discussing a monthly sub for one game, not multiple ones. The reality is, anyone can make cuts in their personal budgets to accomodate the $15/month cost for gaming (as this thread points out with many examples). If you're barely meeting your monthly spending limits and $15 is still too much, then I'm afraid high-speed internet, a PC capable of running games, and a box copy + $15/mo should be the absolute least of your concerns.
I stand by my original reply here. $15/mo for an MMO subscription is absolutely negligable for anyone who is capable of playing one. If you don't count the cost of your PC (you own it for business/other reasons) and your internet connection, MMOs stand as one of the single cheapest forms of entertainment available in this day in age. Hell, the OP is living in an apartment that runs $4,500/mo in USD, and paying likely 4-5 pounds per drink every outing (likely having multiple drinks per). Claiming HE can't afford $15/mo is ludicrous, and is where my original statement was truly directed. Is it required for his well-being to pay that much for an apartment? Is it required that he get laid every weekend, or if nothing else gets a solid buzz/dog-ass drunk? Nope. I even stated in my post that people can easily forego many daily things such as a coke at the vending machine or a newspaper to afford their gaming. I'm sorry, but $15/mo for one MMO sub is just not a lot, and again, if it's that significant, you ought not be playing games with your spare time, just IMO.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Wow, there are some real soon to be disallusioned people in this thread. $15 a month is rather significant for some and insignificant for others. Insulting someone because they are questioning the value of subscription fees is ridiculous and childish. My fiance was laid off two months ago and my contracts have been steadily reducing since last year. I can afford to pay $15 a month for numerous subscriptions, but the day my fiance was laid off I became a lot pickier and cancelled all but one subscription. $15 may not seem like a lot of cash to everyone, but considering how many MMO players have multiple subscriptions it all adds up fast. If nothing else then the not so stellar economy is a good excuse to start demanding higher quality games for the same subscription fee. Almost every company seems to think they can release crap and charge us $50 for the box and $15 a month and that needs to change if we want to see worthwhile MMOs developed.
This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.
I'm sorry, but I have to completely and utterly disagree. I don't have money to "throw away", and I'm certain plenty of people here don't either. However, $15 a month when compared to the other expenses of living is completely and utterly microscopic. I subscribe to one game at a time. My attention span and preferences don't require me having 3-4 subs running at a time (there's a huge difference between $15 and $60 - about 4x in fact). We're discussing a monthly sub for one game, not multiple ones. The reality is, anyone can make cuts in their personal budgets to accomodate the $15/month cost for gaming (as this thread points out with many examples). If you're barely meeting your monthly spending limits and $15 is still too much, then I'm afraid high-speed internet, a PC capable of running games, and a box copy + $15/mo should be the absolute least of your concerns.
I stand by my original reply here. $15/mo for an MMO subscription is absolutely negligable for anyone who is capable of playing one. If you don't count the cost of your PC (you own it for business/other reasons) and your internet connection, MMOs stand as one of the single cheapest forms of entertainment available in this day in age. Hell, the OP is living in an apartment that runs $4,500/mo in USD, and paying likely 4-5 pounds per drink every outing (likely having multiple drinks per). Claiming HE can't afford $15/mo is ludicrous, and is where my original statement was truly directed. Is it required for his well-being to pay that much for an apartment? Is it required that he get laid every weekend, or if nothing else gets a solid buzz/dog-ass drunk? Nope. I even stated in my post that people can easily forego many daily things such as a coke at the vending machine or a newspaper to afford their gaming. I'm sorry, but $15/mo for one MMO sub is just not a lot, and again, if it's that significant, you ought not be playing games with your spare time, just IMO.
Agreed that it is still the cheapest form of entertainment today but you completely are missing the point and perhaps unaware of how people around the world today are jobless and they don't have that $15 a month like they used to.
The question is not if you can cut elsewhere to have the $15 a month, but rather if it is worth it. $15 a month on a hobby is one thing, but MMOs are not the only hobbies out there.
Examples:
$15 a month will make ~6 gallons of wine and take numerous hours. Roughly 10 gallons of cider if you buy from the orchard or roughly 2 gallons of mead.
It costs me roughly $2 a month in maintenace (not counting my time) to keep 4 bicycles in repair.
I spend $20 a month keeping three guitars stringed and repaired.
$15 is also not a lot to spend getting out of the house with a significant other and worth a lot more to many than more screen time. It is all relative.
Wow, there are some real soon to be disallusioned people in this thread. $15 a month is rather significant for some and insignificant for others. Insulting someone because they are questioning the value of subscription fees is ridiculous and childish. My fiance was laid off two months ago and my contracts have been steadily reducing since last year. I can afford to pay $15 a month for numerous subscriptions, but the day my fiance was laid off I became a lot pickier and cancelled all but one subscription. $15 may not seem like a lot of cash to everyone, but considering how many MMO players have multiple subscriptions it all adds up fast. If nothing else then the not so stellar economy is a good excuse to start demanding higher quality games for the same subscription fee. Almost every company seems to think they can release crap and charge us $50 for the box and $15 a month and that needs to change if we want to see worthwhile MMOs developed.
This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.
I'm sorry, but I have to completely and utterly disagree. I don't have money to "throw away", and I'm certain plenty of people here don't either. However, $15 a month when compared to the other expenses of living is completely and utterly microscopic. I subscribe to one game at a time. My attention span and preferences don't require me having 3-4 subs running at a time (there's a huge difference between $15 and $60 - about 4x in fact). We're discussing a monthly sub for one game, not multiple ones. The reality is, anyone can make cuts in their personal budgets to accomodate the $15/month cost for gaming (as this thread points out with many examples). If you're barely meeting your monthly spending limits and $15 is still too much, then I'm afraid high-speed internet, a PC capable of running games, and a box copy + $15/mo should be the absolute least of your concerns.
I stand by my original reply here. $15/mo for an MMO subscription is absolutely negligable for anyone who is capable of playing one. If you don't count the cost of your PC (you own it for business/other reasons) and your internet connection, MMOs stand as one of the single cheapest forms of entertainment available in this day in age. Hell, the OP is living in an apartment that runs $4,500/mo in USD, and paying likely 4-5 pounds per drink every outing (likely having multiple drinks per). Claiming HE can't afford $15/mo is ludicrous, and is where my original statement was truly directed. Is it required for his well-being to pay that much for an apartment? Is it required that he get laid every weekend, or if nothing else gets a solid buzz/dog-ass drunk? Nope. I even stated in my post that people can easily forego many daily things such as a coke at the vending machine or a newspaper to afford their gaming. I'm sorry, but $15/mo for one MMO sub is just not a lot, and again, if it's that significant, you ought not be playing games with your spare time, just IMO.
Agreed that it is still the cheapest form of entertainment today but you completely are missing the point and perhaps unaware of how people around the world today are jobless and they don't have that $15 a month like they used to.
Likewise you are completely missing the point that those very people will require a PC capable of running today's games, an internet connection (most likely high-speed, ranging from what, $15-20++/mo), and time to play said game. I'm sorry if it seems insensitive, because I swear it isn't meant to be, but should these jobless, cashless people be playing an MMO? Do those folks have cable TV still adding a bill each month? Should they be forking over $50 up front for a game?
If your point is that, in all, there are less people capable of paying $15/mo than there used to be, then I'll agree. However, gaming, and the time to do so, is a luxury and not a right. That this post has implications that if the fee were $10 or even $5/mo that more people would be playing is ridiculous. I doubt the gaming companies could even keep the servers running at those costs. To top it all off, there is a genre of MMO called F2P. You may feel inclined to buy items from malls in these games, but for all intents and purposes, they are free and never, ever require to buy anything, or pay a monthly fee.
Sincerely, I'm sorry if someone can no longer afford $15, but like drinking, smoking, and many other frivolous things people pay for daily, gaming is a luxury, privilege, or whatever you want to refer to it as, but it's not a right. Complaining of $15/mo for such a thing, I can't reiterate enough, is ludicrous.
As an aside, I agree that companies need to stop releasing and charging $50 for a beta-in-a-box. Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, though.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
I am not arguing against QUALITY MMOS being worth $15 a month. I really do not consider a $15 subscription fee inapporiate at all for a qulaity game with proper developer support.
My points are:
1. Many people will find more value spending their $15s elsewhere (and that those who do should not be insulted).
2. Questioning the value of a subscription is a good thing to increase the quality of MMO releases. Honestly the genre has been on a downward slide ever since publishers realised the hype/effort/profit ratio. Lets face it there has been a lot of decent games but nothing all that great (or innovative) in ages. The best way to get change is to reconsider what is worth paying for.
The question is not if you can cut elsewhere to have the $15 a month, but rather if it is worth it. $15 a month on a hobby is one thing, but MMOs are not the only hobbies out there.
Examples: $15 a month will make ~6 gallons of wine and take numerous hours. Roughly 10 gallons of cider if you buy from the orchard or roughly 2 gallons of mead. It costs me roughly $2 a month in maintenace (not counting my time) to keep 4 bicycles in repair. I spend $20 a month keeping three guitars stringed and repaired.
$15 is also not a lot to spend getting out of the house with a significant other and worth a lot more to many than more screen time. It is all relative.
Well, you're dead on with the term relative. I do 100% agree with that.
Still, though, it's something that's as simple as personal preference, and it's ridiculous for people to argue the price of MMOs. It'll all boil down to personal opinion at the end of the day, and that's that. If playing an MMO isn't worth $15 for you for a month, then don't play - it's not rocket science. I just can't believe people can't understand that, and that this topic even exists.
There's many reasons to complain about the state of current MMOs, but the monthly fee, IMO, is not one of them when compared and contrasted to other things, especially given its consistency over the past 10 years.
BTW, I couldn't agree more that a good movie outing can be worth the $30 you'll spend taking yourself and a significant other to such a thing. I'd also have to add that rare is the occassion that such movies are released worth watching anymore, though - not too different than the MMO scene if you ask me. From that standpoint I can totally agree with the $50 box cost and $15/mo being too much for some games, but likewise to me not going to nearly as many movies as I once did, don't pay for/play the crappy MMOs out there IMO.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
By the by... I am not arguing against QUALITY MMOS being worth $15 a month. I really do not consider a $15 subscription fee inapporiate at all for a qulaity game with proper developer support. My points are: 1. Many people will find more value spending their $15s elsewhere (and that those who do should not be insulted). I think you completely misunderstood my original reply, then. Taking your money elsewhere (speaking with your wallet) is absolutely great. Acting as if $15 is going to break the bank (where the OP's point lies, in my interpretation) is absurd. His original post essentially states that 3 beers in Europe is of greater value than an MMO subscription, while complaining the cost is too high, all while living in a $4500/mo apartment. Get real. 2. Questioning the value of a subscription is a good thing to increase the quality of MMO releases. Honestly the genre has been on a downward slide ever since publishers realised the hype/effort/profit ratio. Lets face it there has been a lot of decent games but nothing all that great (or innovative) in ages. The best way to get change is to reconsider what is worth paying for. I have to disagree that questioning the cost of subs is a good thing. The costs of running and maintaining their servers is likely just covered by the fees, with perhaps a minor amount actually making it to the profit side. The fact is, yes hype is ridiculous also. People SHOULD be speaking with their wallets, and not buying trash games. Look at the waiting line for Darkfall, mostly because people just want to see for themselves how godawful it is after reading about it (see the shiny red button? DON'T PUSH IT!! **smash**). However, customers just need need to be more cautious of bad products. AoC and WHO are good examples of what happens when you release a bad product - they've both lost plenty of $ for their respective companies, and I believe that says plenty.
Would I be happy if games cost less for a box and less for the sub? Hell yes. Will I ever complain about a $50 box and a $15/mo game? Absolutely not. I don't dare buy a game without a trial and plenty of reading anymore. I'm a very discerning consumer, and have noone to blame but myself if I buy a shit product.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
The reply wasn't specific to you. I just reread the thread and realized the tone I responded in and wanted to correct it.
I stand firm on questioning the costs of a subscription however.
We are consumers and we create change with our wallets. If you are satisfied with a game paying the subscription then great, but if you are not then time to act. I see thread after thread complaining about all sorts of issues in MMOs. If people are on the edge contented or not then start asking yourself what would you pay? If it is less than what you are paying now then I would suggest questioning what you are paying.
I agree people need to be more cautious when purchasing MMOs in general, but just giving a game a thumbs up or down isn't going to help the genre. We as consumers need to start showing publishers where the line is for cost/enjoyment. If we don't then publishers will only charge us the same for inferior products.
I'm just wondering who else feels the same and if the free 2 player model or micro transactions which let me play for free but buy something when I can afford to will catch on in a big way.
Im playing a game where they just added something like that called live gamer. This game has user developed UI modifications that most people use. The live gamer button does not show with some of the most widely used UI mods, but there has been not enough interest in the live gamer for the UI developers to even patch the UI mods to show it. Thats just to show you that no, microtransactions will not catch on in a big way. Most people in amero/european mmos dont want it. But if that is what you like there are some asian mmo's that you might want to try.
I have an average Job where I get paid paid double the average wage here which is higher than most of my mates and they do ok jobs like repairing PC's and stuff. I have bills which are increasing and I have petrol costs and then I have costs like going out on the weekend and buying beer which is a social must here in the UK cause if you don't drink then you ain't getting laid and you wont be having fun as alcohol is out culture here.
I can only afford to live without my parents because I have a room mate and we split the bills and it costs us nearly £3000 a month betwwen us just to live and that leavs us with a tiny amount of cash each every month. I'm talking in the hundreds and I buy games and I just bought a new motorbike and I have other things to pay for and I can't really afford them things onto of the bills that just allow me to live. My point is that $15 is like around £10 or whateveer the economy is now and that buys me 3 beers or food for a few days or a tank of petrol on my motorbike. That £10 is vital for me and I've just found myself deciding between subscribing to an mmorpg or doing something else I need with it and everything else wins out over the mmorpg. I'm just wondering who else feels the same and if the free 2 player model or micro transactions which let me play for free but buy something when I can afford to will catch on in a big way.
It sounds to me like you're a young adult (18-25) and still don't know how to relax and enjoy yourself. When I was your age I did the same thing, because all my mates did it and that's what young adults were meant to do. I moved away in my late teens and worked around east Asia for many years and on my visits back I saw my mates going out to get drunken sex off the bride of Frankenstein each Friday and Saturday night and laughed.
On your forrays out to nightclubs to get some bad sex (I know at your age there is no such thing as bad sex), have you ever seen many men aged 40+? Probably not, if you have they're either perverts looking to bang paralitic children. The reason I don't do it anymore is because I discovered that I can get laid wthout having to get drunk in order to get the courage or get a child wasted before she'll sleep with me, and having sex with a woman that has had a skinfull isn't alot of fun.
Try meeting women wether through friends, family, work or online and go to dinner with them or something. I know it seems like I'm being a stupid old fuddy duddy but the type of women that goes out to get drunken and have sex the same night is a called a whore in my opinion. Also I've seen some pretty nasty horror stories in the East when guys such as yourself went out got plastered then woke up with the next day either, robbed or with a transvestite/transexual or robbed by a transvestite/transexual. Some were drugged and had their passports and travellers cheques robbed, all because he thought he needed to be plastered to get laid.
In short, ditch the "Alchopops" culture in the UK, stop shagging drunken Chavs that looked like they escaped from thye monkey house at Chessington zoo. Save some cash and date some women that don't drop their knickers after a pint and a few songs. Even move back in with your parents to save some money, you have a job so they won't mind and I don't see it hurting your "love life" the way it is at the moment!
If you doubt me you only need to watch a few DNA tests on Jeremy Kyle to know that I'm right mate!
"You're the father"
"What about those 3 other blokes?"
"I was drunk, so that don't matter!"
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Money's definately tighter than it used to be, but in my opinion an MMO subscription is still the most value-for-money form of entertainment available. A tenner a month buys you unlimited playtime; it doesn't get better than that.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
You can't take away the alcohol though it's a necessity here in England atleast. I've been out drinking every night so far this week and last week with my friends and thats what we do here. If you ain't drinking then you just don't have any fun cause everyone else is drunk and when you're sober looking on in you just think, what twats lol. Besides drinking makes everything better , like crap movies at the cinema are suddenly funny or bad games are suddenly good.
The thing is if I had to make a choice between going out and having a laugh with my mates and getting some or stay alone in the house playing a mmorpg that I don't really like cause SWG and PS got ruined. Then I know I'm gonna choose going out because it's social and I love going on my Motorbike and enjoy seeing the world. Like last weekend I was in a club with my mates and we met this guy who invited us to a house party and we ended up going there around 4am but everyone had gone....... so I pissed through his letter box and he chased us down the street. That is a good time!
- Gas bills
- Water bills
- electric bills
- Rent
- Food and Alcohol
- Petrol
- Motorbike + car repairs and services and mots etc etc.
- Spend money upgrading your PC
- Buying games
- Clothes
- haircuts
- washing products
etc etc.
It could keep going and going and that £10 or whatever could be 2 meals or it could be soap or petrol money. Sure I could not spend the £50 a week on booze or whatever but then I'm not gonna have any fun and I'll be a loner wasting my youth for games.
I find myself choosing between buying Fallout 3 or subscribing to an mmorpg cause money is that tight. So I end up buying Fallout 3 and missing out on playing the mmorpg for 2 months and oh look I hate Fallout 3....... waste of money, shoulda just pirated it like all my mates did.
You can't take away the alcohol though it's a necessity here in England atleast. I've been out drinking every night so far this week and last week with my friends and thats what we do here. If you ain't drinking then you just don't have any fun cause everyone else is drunk and when you're sober looking on in you just think, what twats lol. Besides drinking makes everything better , like crap movies at the cinema are suddenly funny or bad games are suddenly good. The thing is if I had to make a choice between going out and having a laugh with my mates and getting some or stay alone in the house playing a mmorpg that I don't really like cause SWG and PS got ruined. Then I know I'm gonna choose going out because it's social and I love going on my Motorbike and enjoy seeing the world. Like last weekend I was in a club with my mates and we met this guy who invited us to a house party and we ended up going there around 4am but everyone had gone....... so I pissed through his letter box and he chased us down the street. That is a good time!
Then I guess you should keep on doing what you're doing until it isn't fun anymore and don't worry about MMORPGs. In fifteen years you'll think back, and think to yourself "What a twat I was!". It's a bit like not playing hide and seek anymore or putting a tooth under your pillow and expecting to see money the next morning. Or going out and playing trick or treat, you just grow out of it but it's fun while it lasts.
Now what would have been funny is, if you pissied through his letter box and his pitbull bit the end of your nob off, now that would've truly made me laugh!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Hmm I think I see a lot of people rushing to defend MMOs, but truth of the matter is you can't blame the OP.
When it comes down to it, the OP just doesn't have the urge to play any MMOs in particular since quite frankly the majority of them are now quite boring/done before/played before. Its not that he's retarded and can't figure out how to save up 10 quid. Its that his money is better spent elsewhere (in this case alcohol).
Back to MMOs, the crowd sitting on the sidelines has been growing and growing since earlier than last year. I know since myself and my friends are a part of that crowd. I've been MMO clean ever since September, when I quit AoC. I've also seen a lot of people here who are just drifting, not knowing what MMO to play. Those that are trying and end up hating MMOs in just days.
Quite frankly, in times of recession where money is more valuable people (like the OP) need to know that the money they are spending is well spent. Sure its a trivial amount, but end of the day its not that the OP can't prioritise his expenses, its that he doesn't want to waste time and money on an activity he's not sure he will enjoy.
Currently waiting for the MMO industry to put out something good.
I think the standardization of 15$, roughly speaking, should be lowered to 10 dollars a month as the new standard. These are hard times, economically speaking, and it would behoove the gaming companies to lower the standard to hopefully increase their potential market shares. These are shaky economic times and I feel the gaming companies should reflect the times by lowering what I call the subscription standard.
I pity you if you prefer to play a MMO instead of drinking 3 beers with friends. If I was short on money I would make the choice to go drinking with my buddies instead of playing an MMO tbh.
I have an average Job where I get paid paid double the average wage here which is higher than most of my mates and they do ok jobs like repairing PC's and stuff. I have bills which are increasing and I have petrol costs and then I have costs like going out on the weekend and buying beer which is a social must here in the UK cause if you don't drink then you ain't getting laid and you wont be having fun as alcohol is out culture here.
I can only afford to live without my parents because I have a room mate and we split the bills and it costs us nearly £3000 a month betwwen us just to live and that leavs us with a tiny amount of cash each every month. I'm talking in the hundreds and I buy games and I just bought a new motorbike and I have other things to pay for and I can't really afford them things onto of the bills that just allow me to live. My point is that $15 is like around £10 or whateveer the economy is now and that buys me 3 beers or food for a few days or a tank of petrol on my motorbike. That £10 is vital for me and I've just found myself deciding between subscribing to an mmorpg or doing something else I need with it and everything else wins out over the mmorpg. I'm just wondering who else feels the same and if the free 2 player model or micro transactions which let me play for free but buy something when I can afford to will catch on in a big way.
First of all if you have a job you can afford $15 a month, do you have cable? do you have more then the basic package? How many games do you buy in a few months time? How much alcohol do you drink that you don't need to? How often do you go to a club in a month? How many times a month do you buy junk food that you don't need?
$15 is nothing, and to then say that you have a job where you "get paid paid double" (had to include the typo in the quote, or does that mean you get paid 4x) then there really is no issue in $15 a month. It honestly sounds like you just don't like having to pay not that you can't.
Also I can't say I know the real estate lay out in England, but like here in America I am assuming you could find a cheaper place to live. I live close to a major city and my rent plus expenses is less then $1000 a month, you're saying that you pay about $6000 a month, I'd look for a place a little further away from work and save yourself some cash.
I pity you if you prefer to play a MMO instead of drinking 3 beers with friends. If I was short on money I would make the choice to go drinking with my buddies instead of playing an MMO tbh.
I was thinking the same thing. But he probably didn't mean it in the anti-social type of way, though he was quick to cast judgment over the OP.
MMOs suck right now though so there really isn't anything to spend $15 on. Just keep doing what you're doing, living on your own and having your own transportation is more important than mmos. Renting sounds crappy though, just seems like a waste of cash to me. Why buy a house for someone else? If you are renting that is, couldn't tell.
Comments
$15 a month is not an issue for me, and I'm a broke college student.
But if it goes any higher, I may just stop playing P2P MMOs all together.
On the F2P issue, you can get by without having to pay. It is just very tempting to pay for an edge in-game.
This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.
This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.
I'm sorry, but I have to completely and utterly disagree. I don't have money to "throw away", and I'm certain plenty of people here don't either. However, $15 a month when compared to the other expenses of living is completely and utterly microscopic. I subscribe to one game at a time. My attention span and preferences don't require me having 3-4 subs running at a time (there's a huge difference between $15 and $60 - about 4x in fact). We're discussing a monthly sub for one game, not multiple ones. The reality is, anyone can make cuts in their personal budgets to accomodate the $15/month cost for gaming (as this thread points out with many examples). If you're barely meeting your monthly spending limits and $15 is still too much, then I'm afraid high-speed internet, a PC capable of running games, and a box copy + $15/mo should be the absolute least of your concerns.
I stand by my original reply here. $15/mo for an MMO subscription is absolutely negligable for anyone who is capable of playing one. If you don't count the cost of your PC (you own it for business/other reasons) and your internet connection, MMOs stand as one of the single cheapest forms of entertainment available in this day in age. Hell, the OP is living in an apartment that runs $4,500/mo in USD, and paying likely 4-5 pounds per drink every outing (likely having multiple drinks per). Claiming HE can't afford $15/mo is ludicrous, and is where my original statement was truly directed. Is it required for his well-being to pay that much for an apartment? Is it required that he get laid every weekend, or if nothing else gets a solid buzz/dog-ass drunk? Nope. I even stated in my post that people can easily forego many daily things such as a coke at the vending machine or a newspaper to afford their gaming. I'm sorry, but $15/mo for one MMO sub is just not a lot, and again, if it's that significant, you ought not be playing games with your spare time, just IMO.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.
I'm sorry, but I have to completely and utterly disagree. I don't have money to "throw away", and I'm certain plenty of people here don't either. However, $15 a month when compared to the other expenses of living is completely and utterly microscopic. I subscribe to one game at a time. My attention span and preferences don't require me having 3-4 subs running at a time (there's a huge difference between $15 and $60 - about 4x in fact). We're discussing a monthly sub for one game, not multiple ones. The reality is, anyone can make cuts in their personal budgets to accomodate the $15/month cost for gaming (as this thread points out with many examples). If you're barely meeting your monthly spending limits and $15 is still too much, then I'm afraid high-speed internet, a PC capable of running games, and a box copy + $15/mo should be the absolute least of your concerns.
I stand by my original reply here. $15/mo for an MMO subscription is absolutely negligable for anyone who is capable of playing one. If you don't count the cost of your PC (you own it for business/other reasons) and your internet connection, MMOs stand as one of the single cheapest forms of entertainment available in this day in age. Hell, the OP is living in an apartment that runs $4,500/mo in USD, and paying likely 4-5 pounds per drink every outing (likely having multiple drinks per). Claiming HE can't afford $15/mo is ludicrous, and is where my original statement was truly directed. Is it required for his well-being to pay that much for an apartment? Is it required that he get laid every weekend, or if nothing else gets a solid buzz/dog-ass drunk? Nope. I even stated in my post that people can easily forego many daily things such as a coke at the vending machine or a newspaper to afford their gaming. I'm sorry, but $15/mo for one MMO sub is just not a lot, and again, if it's that significant, you ought not be playing games with your spare time, just IMO.
Agreed that it is still the cheapest form of entertainment today but you completely are missing the point and perhaps unaware of how people around the world today are jobless and they don't have that $15 a month like they used to.
The question is not if you can cut elsewhere to have the $15 a month, but rather if it is worth it. $15 a month on a hobby is one thing, but MMOs are not the only hobbies out there.
Examples:
$15 a month will make ~6 gallons of wine and take numerous hours. Roughly 10 gallons of cider if you buy from the orchard or roughly 2 gallons of mead.
It costs me roughly $2 a month in maintenace (not counting my time) to keep 4 bicycles in repair.
I spend $20 a month keeping three guitars stringed and repaired.
$15 is also not a lot to spend getting out of the house with a significant other and worth a lot more to many than more screen time. It is all relative.
This is like the best post ever in regards to this subject. Though you have to understand when certain people in the world have money to throw away noone else is relevant to them.
I'm sorry, but I have to completely and utterly disagree. I don't have money to "throw away", and I'm certain plenty of people here don't either. However, $15 a month when compared to the other expenses of living is completely and utterly microscopic. I subscribe to one game at a time. My attention span and preferences don't require me having 3-4 subs running at a time (there's a huge difference between $15 and $60 - about 4x in fact). We're discussing a monthly sub for one game, not multiple ones. The reality is, anyone can make cuts in their personal budgets to accomodate the $15/month cost for gaming (as this thread points out with many examples). If you're barely meeting your monthly spending limits and $15 is still too much, then I'm afraid high-speed internet, a PC capable of running games, and a box copy + $15/mo should be the absolute least of your concerns.
I stand by my original reply here. $15/mo for an MMO subscription is absolutely negligable for anyone who is capable of playing one. If you don't count the cost of your PC (you own it for business/other reasons) and your internet connection, MMOs stand as one of the single cheapest forms of entertainment available in this day in age. Hell, the OP is living in an apartment that runs $4,500/mo in USD, and paying likely 4-5 pounds per drink every outing (likely having multiple drinks per). Claiming HE can't afford $15/mo is ludicrous, and is where my original statement was truly directed. Is it required for his well-being to pay that much for an apartment? Is it required that he get laid every weekend, or if nothing else gets a solid buzz/dog-ass drunk? Nope. I even stated in my post that people can easily forego many daily things such as a coke at the vending machine or a newspaper to afford their gaming. I'm sorry, but $15/mo for one MMO sub is just not a lot, and again, if it's that significant, you ought not be playing games with your spare time, just IMO.
Agreed that it is still the cheapest form of entertainment today but you completely are missing the point and perhaps unaware of how people around the world today are jobless and they don't have that $15 a month like they used to.
Likewise you are completely missing the point that those very people will require a PC capable of running today's games, an internet connection (most likely high-speed, ranging from what, $15-20++/mo), and time to play said game. I'm sorry if it seems insensitive, because I swear it isn't meant to be, but should these jobless, cashless people be playing an MMO? Do those folks have cable TV still adding a bill each month? Should they be forking over $50 up front for a game?
If your point is that, in all, there are less people capable of paying $15/mo than there used to be, then I'll agree. However, gaming, and the time to do so, is a luxury and not a right. That this post has implications that if the fee were $10 or even $5/mo that more people would be playing is ridiculous. I doubt the gaming companies could even keep the servers running at those costs. To top it all off, there is a genre of MMO called F2P. You may feel inclined to buy items from malls in these games, but for all intents and purposes, they are free and never, ever require to buy anything, or pay a monthly fee.
Sincerely, I'm sorry if someone can no longer afford $15, but like drinking, smoking, and many other frivolous things people pay for daily, gaming is a luxury, privilege, or whatever you want to refer to it as, but it's not a right. Complaining of $15/mo for such a thing, I can't reiterate enough, is ludicrous.
As an aside, I agree that companies need to stop releasing and charging $50 for a beta-in-a-box. Completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, though.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
By the by...
I am not arguing against QUALITY MMOS being worth $15 a month. I really do not consider a $15 subscription fee inapporiate at all for a qulaity game with proper developer support.
My points are:
1. Many people will find more value spending their $15s elsewhere (and that those who do should not be insulted).
2. Questioning the value of a subscription is a good thing to increase the quality of MMO releases. Honestly the genre has been on a downward slide ever since publishers realised the hype/effort/profit ratio. Lets face it there has been a lot of decent games but nothing all that great (or innovative) in ages. The best way to get change is to reconsider what is worth paying for.
Well, you're dead on with the term relative. I do 100% agree with that.
Still, though, it's something that's as simple as personal preference, and it's ridiculous for people to argue the price of MMOs. It'll all boil down to personal opinion at the end of the day, and that's that. If playing an MMO isn't worth $15 for you for a month, then don't play - it's not rocket science. I just can't believe people can't understand that, and that this topic even exists.
There's many reasons to complain about the state of current MMOs, but the monthly fee, IMO, is not one of them when compared and contrasted to other things, especially given its consistency over the past 10 years.
BTW, I couldn't agree more that a good movie outing can be worth the $30 you'll spend taking yourself and a significant other to such a thing. I'd also have to add that rare is the occassion that such movies are released worth watching anymore, though - not too different than the MMO scene if you ask me. From that standpoint I can totally agree with the $50 box cost and $15/mo being too much for some games, but likewise to me not going to nearly as many movies as I once did, don't pay for/play the crappy MMOs out there IMO.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Would I be happy if games cost less for a box and less for the sub? Hell yes. Will I ever complain about a $50 box and a $15/mo game? Absolutely not. I don't dare buy a game without a trial and plenty of reading anymore. I'm a very discerning consumer, and have noone to blame but myself if I buy a shit product.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
The reply wasn't specific to you. I just reread the thread and realized the tone I responded in and wanted to correct it.
I stand firm on questioning the costs of a subscription however.
We are consumers and we create change with our wallets. If you are satisfied with a game paying the subscription then great, but if you are not then time to act. I see thread after thread complaining about all sorts of issues in MMOs. If people are on the edge contented or not then start asking yourself what would you pay? If it is less than what you are paying now then I would suggest questioning what you are paying.
I agree people need to be more cautious when purchasing MMOs in general, but just giving a game a thumbs up or down isn't going to help the genre. We as consumers need to start showing publishers where the line is for cost/enjoyment. If we don't then publishers will only charge us the same for inferior products.
For me..it's about cutting down on ALL expenses..... especially discretionary ones. I haven't found a game worth my $15 dollars atm.
Im playing a game where they just added something like that called live gamer. This game has user developed UI modifications that most people use. The live gamer button does not show with some of the most widely used UI mods, but there has been not enough interest in the live gamer for the UI developers to even patch the UI mods to show it. Thats just to show you that no, microtransactions will not catch on in a big way. Most people in amero/european mmos dont want it. But if that is what you like there are some asian mmo's that you might want to try.
Where i live , 15$ could buy me 4 lunches.
So that is easily 4 days of 30. That is considered a chunk in monthly budget.
But allright.
Not only that i pay 50$ for a game , and than continue to pay and pay all over again.
But MORE IMPORTANTLY there is no game that justifies 15$ anymore.
Paying 15$ for all those half baked , wow copy, artificial grind , crap ... i had enough of it.
I rather play free games.
They are just as bad, but at least they cost me nothing
It sounds to me like you're a young adult (18-25) and still don't know how to relax and enjoy yourself. When I was your age I did the same thing, because all my mates did it and that's what young adults were meant to do. I moved away in my late teens and worked around east Asia for many years and on my visits back I saw my mates going out to get drunken sex off the bride of Frankenstein each Friday and Saturday night and laughed.
On your forrays out to nightclubs to get some bad sex (I know at your age there is no such thing as bad sex), have you ever seen many men aged 40+? Probably not, if you have they're either perverts looking to bang paralitic children. The reason I don't do it anymore is because I discovered that I can get laid wthout having to get drunk in order to get the courage or get a child wasted before she'll sleep with me, and having sex with a woman that has had a skinfull isn't alot of fun.
Try meeting women wether through friends, family, work or online and go to dinner with them or something. I know it seems like I'm being a stupid old fuddy duddy but the type of women that goes out to get drunken and have sex the same night is a called a whore in my opinion. Also I've seen some pretty nasty horror stories in the East when guys such as yourself went out got plastered then woke up with the next day either, robbed or with a transvestite/transexual or robbed by a transvestite/transexual. Some were drugged and had their passports and travellers cheques robbed, all because he thought he needed to be plastered to get laid.
In short, ditch the "Alchopops" culture in the UK, stop shagging drunken Chavs that looked like they escaped from thye monkey house at Chessington zoo. Save some cash and date some women that don't drop their knickers after a pint and a few songs. Even move back in with your parents to save some money, you have a job so they won't mind and I don't see it hurting your "love life" the way it is at the moment!
If you doubt me you only need to watch a few DNA tests on Jeremy Kyle to know that I'm right mate!
"You're the father"
"What about those 3 other blokes?"
"I was drunk, so that don't matter!"
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Money's definately tighter than it used to be, but in my opinion an MMO subscription is still the most value-for-money form of entertainment available. A tenner a month buys you unlimited playtime; it doesn't get better than that.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
You can't take away the alcohol though it's a necessity here in England atleast. I've been out drinking every night so far this week and last week with my friends and thats what we do here. If you ain't drinking then you just don't have any fun cause everyone else is drunk and when you're sober looking on in you just think, what twats lol. Besides drinking makes everything better , like crap movies at the cinema are suddenly funny or bad games are suddenly good.
The thing is if I had to make a choice between going out and having a laugh with my mates and getting some or stay alone in the house playing a mmorpg that I don't really like cause SWG and PS got ruined. Then I know I'm gonna choose going out because it's social and I love going on my Motorbike and enjoy seeing the world. Like last weekend I was in a club with my mates and we met this guy who invited us to a house party and we ended up going there around 4am but everyone had gone....... so I pissed through his letter box and he chased us down the street. That is a good time!
- Gas bills
- Water bills
- electric bills
- Rent
- Food and Alcohol
- Petrol
- Motorbike + car repairs and services and mots etc etc.
- Spend money upgrading your PC
- Buying games
- Clothes
- haircuts
- washing products
etc etc.
It could keep going and going and that £10 or whatever could be 2 meals or it could be soap or petrol money. Sure I could not spend the £50 a week on booze or whatever but then I'm not gonna have any fun and I'll be a loner wasting my youth for games.
I find myself choosing between buying Fallout 3 or subscribing to an mmorpg cause money is that tight. So I end up buying Fallout 3 and missing out on playing the mmorpg for 2 months and oh look I hate Fallout 3....... waste of money, shoulda just pirated it like all my mates did.
Then I guess you should keep on doing what you're doing until it isn't fun anymore and don't worry about MMORPGs. In fifteen years you'll think back, and think to yourself "What a twat I was!". It's a bit like not playing hide and seek anymore or putting a tooth under your pillow and expecting to see money the next morning. Or going out and playing trick or treat, you just grow out of it but it's fun while it lasts.
Now what would have been funny is, if you pissied through his letter box and his pitbull bit the end of your nob off, now that would've truly made me laugh!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Hmm I think I see a lot of people rushing to defend MMOs, but truth of the matter is you can't blame the OP.
When it comes down to it, the OP just doesn't have the urge to play any MMOs in particular since quite frankly the majority of them are now quite boring/done before/played before. Its not that he's retarded and can't figure out how to save up 10 quid. Its that his money is better spent elsewhere (in this case alcohol).
Back to MMOs, the crowd sitting on the sidelines has been growing and growing since earlier than last year. I know since myself and my friends are a part of that crowd. I've been MMO clean ever since September, when I quit AoC. I've also seen a lot of people here who are just drifting, not knowing what MMO to play. Those that are trying and end up hating MMOs in just days.
Quite frankly, in times of recession where money is more valuable people (like the OP) need to know that the money they are spending is well spent. Sure its a trivial amount, but end of the day its not that the OP can't prioritise his expenses, its that he doesn't want to waste time and money on an activity he's not sure he will enjoy.
If you can't give up 3 beers, I pity you.
Yeah, I did think about calling him an alcoholic but thought that would be a little rude. :P
This message was edited on 8/16/15 at 5:30:00 AM
I think the standardization of 15$, roughly speaking, should be lowered to 10 dollars a month as the new standard. These are hard times, economically speaking, and it would behoove the gaming companies to lower the standard to hopefully increase their potential market shares. These are shaky economic times and I feel the gaming companies should reflect the times by lowering what I call the subscription standard.
I pity you if you prefer to play a MMO instead of drinking 3 beers with friends. If I was short on money I would make the choice to go drinking with my buddies instead of playing an MMO tbh.
First of all if you have a job you can afford $15 a month, do you have cable? do you have more then the basic package? How many games do you buy in a few months time? How much alcohol do you drink that you don't need to? How often do you go to a club in a month? How many times a month do you buy junk food that you don't need?
$15 is nothing, and to then say that you have a job where you "get paid paid double" (had to include the typo in the quote, or does that mean you get paid 4x) then there really is no issue in $15 a month. It honestly sounds like you just don't like having to pay not that you can't.
Also I can't say I know the real estate lay out in England, but like here in America I am assuming you could find a cheaper place to live. I live close to a major city and my rent plus expenses is less then $1000 a month, you're saying that you pay about $6000 a month, I'd look for a place a little further away from work and save yourself some cash.
I pity you if you prefer to play a MMO instead of drinking 3 beers with friends. If I was short on money I would make the choice to go drinking with my buddies instead of playing an MMO tbh.
I was thinking the same thing. But he probably didn't mean it in the anti-social type of way, though he was quick to cast judgment over the OP.
MMOs suck right now though so there really isn't anything to spend $15 on. Just keep doing what you're doing, living on your own and having your own transportation is more important than mmos. Renting sounds crappy though, just seems like a waste of cash to me. Why buy a house for someone else? If you are renting that is, couldn't tell.