AV can't even fund another server nevermind a law suit with a semi competent lawyer.
Interesting debate though.
^ This.
Av's priority should be fixing the problems with EU-1 and trying to open US-1. Wasting money with a lawsuit for a bad review will only add more to the injury. What will other game media sites think of a lawsuit because of a negative review, seriously?
I would like to ask, and the other way around? Tasos called the review a fraud and more on his response to the review, pretty harsh there.
There will be no lawsuit cause the critic has no credability and caught lieing. Such a bad review is a insult to every gamer in itself and dont need to be proofed further. But theoretically AV has the right to sue him.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
... Frankly, if the review turned away a single person who would have otherwise bought the game, then there is enough to prove damages. Whether it's worth it or not is a different story.
except for the fact that AV has made it nearly impossible to simply buy the game. this would undermine any damages claim AV would have.
Originally posted by DarthRaiden Except in these case Eddie-boy masked his attempt to villainize AV and the players in a form of a review, this against the law. Also an attempt to destroy jobs. At this point it becomes a lawsuit case and "freedom of expression" ends.
Im going to let your know how hard its to "freedom of expresion" to end in some european counties When Bush, Blair and Aznar (spanish president) took the famous phot in azores and declare war to irak, Aznar need to validate it in spanish congress. He had majority of votes, so no problem there. Next day one of the opposing groups change the frontpage of their website, composing it with a photo of Aznar, president of Spain and the title Assasin, plus the photos of the other 180 congressmen that voted along him with the title Co-assassin in each one. Obviously Aznar group sued them, but suit was dismised under the claim to their right to execute "political criticism"
Problem with OP's theory is his definition of libel specifically talks about personal libel. I don't recall the review attacking Tasos or any of AV staff personally. You can't sue someone for a bad review. Saying Darkfall is shit isn't libel. Saying Tasos is a child pornographer would be libel. Tasos calling Ed a fraud would be closer to libel than anything Ed said, but I doubt Ed would have a case either.
if the dev team isn't hardcore, and is instead a bunch of QQ sissies... how in the world can they create a hardcore game?
seriously, instead of all this whining tasos is doing, he could've updated the website to where it is USEFUL.
0/10 so far, just trying to log into this game. too bad there's not an 'account' link easily found/accessible from the bloody darkfallonline.com website.
yeah, i'm going into this just like any random person off the street. so far, i can't even log into the damn game. 2/10 is very generous from what i'm seeing thus far.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Problem with OP's theory is his definition of libel specifically talks about personal libel. I don't call the review attacking Tasos or any of AV staff personally. You can't sue someone for a bad review. Saying Darkfall is shit isn't libel. Saying Tasos is a child pornographer would be libel. Tasos calling Ed a fraud would be closer to libel than anything Ed said, but I doubt Ed would have a case either. This thread is ridiculous.
This. Seriously, journey and Darth and Zodan... just GO AWAY. You cannot sue based on a bad review, it's called freedom of speech. Tasos himself has proven that Ed played the game and he even, though probably illegal, publicly disclosed parts of his chat history which he asked how to play and what to do. That clearly means he played and was seeking help to play the game better. The terrible, terrible community obviously didn't help him at all, he ran out of patience, and quit playing after a few hours.
Tasos on the other hand directly called Ed a liar and a fraud. Ed is a public figure where his reputation as a writer is all he has. Tasos publicly slandered his name for his own benefit. If anyone has a case, it's definitely Ed, not AV. And Ed would probably lose too.
Problem with OP's theory is his definition of libel specifically talks about personal libel. I don't call the review attacking Tasos or any of AV staff personally. You can't sue someone for a bad review. Saying Darkfall is shit isn't libel. Saying Tasos is a child pornographer would be libel. Tasos calling Ed a fraud would be closer to libel than anything Ed said, but I doubt Ed would have a case either. This thread is ridiculous.
Because we all know going to a forum and trying to have a discussion is ridiculous. I mean really, we should just continue with the, "DFO sux" "No it doesn't" kind of threads.
Personally, I agree that AV probably wouldn't win, but it doesn't mean they couldn't sue and try. I would agree there is enough to make a case, but I don't think there is enough for them to win. All that needs to be done is for EG to disprove or essentially cast doubt on one of the points from what I can see.
And yes, you can sue for a bad review (check the links below this), whether or not you can win, is another matter entirely.
LOL I guess you're right that you CAN sue someone for anything, although I thought most EU countries had a "loser pays" system to prevent the frivilous lawsuits that plague America. I should have said "You can't sue over a bad review and win". The first time this happens, kiss any reviews of anything goodbye.
What an absurdly ridiculous thread. Get over it fellas. If all 8,000 of you like the game, great. 99% of gamers won't and/or don't.
And that has contributed nothing. This thread has nothing about liking or disliking DF.
Seriously, if you find it ridiculous, stop posting in it, quit bumping it, and let it die. It eventually will if you leave it alone. All you do by posting how ridiculous is give it another chance to jump back to life for someone else to look at and comment.
LOL I guess you're right that you CAN sue someone for anything, although I thought most EU countries had a "loser pays" system to prevent the frivilous lawsuits that plague America. I should have said "You can't sue over a bad review and win". The first time this happens, kiss any reviews of anything goodbye.
Don't know about the EU system, but if that is true, then it's an idea I like. As for the rest, it will be a bad day indeed if any real precedence were to get set for something like this.
Problem with OP's theory is his definition of libel specifically talks about personal libel. I don't recall the review attacking Tasos or any of AV staff personally. You can't sue someone for a bad review. Saying Darkfall is shit isn't libel. Saying Tasos is a child pornographer would be libel. Tasos calling Ed a fraud would be closer to libel than anything Ed said, but I doubt Ed would have a case either. This thread is ridiculous.
There's no such thing as "personal" libel as opposed to another form of libel. It does talk about a person, but the definition of libel can very well apply to a company as well.
Some people earlier argued that a person can't be sued for an opinion, while this is partially true, there were many parts of the review that were presented as facts, but were incorrect. One can be sued for mistatements of facts that are reckless disregard for the truth.
I'll give an example based on a real case. A person goes to a crowded theater and forms the "opinion" there is a fire, when there isn't one. He yells out "Fire!" and all the people in the theater panic and flee, trampling several people on the way out. Guess what? Not only can you sue the person for shouting "Fire!" It can be a crime. There are limits to freedom of speech.
For those saying that lawsuits are more difficult in Europe, please post the law, so a proper analysis could be done. Just saying, "you can't sue in Europe" doesn't really allow us to make a logical presentation as to why not.
Until that's done, it'd only be fair to do an analysis based on the law that has been posted.
"We report stories as we see them, as accurately and impartially as possible - we serve our readers and thereby our advertisers best by being reliable, fair and impartial." - EuroGamer.
Defamation of character requires that said defamer reports something as solid fact, black and white.
Learn your law kids. For example; It is my opinion that all DarkFall fans are nothing more than children on the life-long virginity plan with a whole hell of alot of nerd rage.
I am not defaming you, as I am stating that it is my OPINION, not fact.
Btw, for those that asked whether there were factual mistatements in the review: Here's a list of what the misstatements along with a description of the correct sway DFO works taken from the EG comment section:
To 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode.
-You simply have to hit F
Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.
-You can auto run while interacting with your inv or anything else, you can also hold shift to sprint while doing these things. (save looting by design)
like an FPS, except with little to no reference point.
-You have a small crosshair on your screen
how slow and floaty the controls tend to be.
-The controls react just like any other FPS (I have 170 ping)
The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible
-Hearing the sound of the sword hitting, blood splattering and the grunt of whatever race or monster is not negligible compared to “whiff”
lack of hit detection
-If you hit, you hit, if you miss, you miss. Hit detection is spot on. There is also an option to turn on hit sounds.
Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork
-I could see this on the first few swings, but each weapon has a set range and it is the same every time you swing it. There is no guesswork, you hit if you are in range.
your combat skills affect how often you actually connect.
-Just false, combat skill has nothing to do with hit or miss.
changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble)
-If you use a hotbar (most people do) it takes as long as it takes you to click a key. In no way can you justify saying this, even if it’s hyperbole (I don’t think it is in this case with nothing on his hotbar)
EverQuest - which was actually graphically superior
- This is opinion, sort of, but no way 99% of people would agree with this, EQ2 maybe.
no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie
- The entire world is hand crafted and looks amazing, no auto generation of terrain or anything.
It doesn't even have [snip] some form of tutorial
- there is a breif tutorial of controls and UI at sigon.
horrible user interface, and broken combat system.
- the UI works fine, it’s FPS not MMO Combat is one of the best parts of the game and is far from broken
the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running
- There is a single server farm called EU1
You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it.
- There is a setting to turn off the UI that you can hotkey
At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute.
- after 15-20 seconds you can hit spacebar and “tapout”
"We report stories as we see them, as accurately and impartially as possible - we serve our readers and thereby our advertisers best by being reliable, fair and impartial." - EuroGamer. Defamation of character requires that said defamer reports something as solid fact, black and white. Learn your law kids. For example; It is my opinion that all DarkFall fans are nothing more than children on the life-long virginity plan with a whole hell of alot of nerd rage. I am not defaming you, as I am stating that it is my OPINION, not fact. ...though my statement is more than likely true.
I'm sorry, I know my law. Please see my previous post for the mis-statements of fact. While the final opinion is just that, an opinion. There are plenty of things passed off as fact in the review.
I've really focused on making this an intellectual debate discussing a hypothetical libel lawsuit. You've likened me to a "child with a life-long virginity plan" and described my posts as "nerd-rage" Could you please point out which of my posts in this thread you consider childish and rage-like?"
Unlike you, I haven't resorted to calling names, or belittling any of the arguments above, even if they don't correspond to my own. So, please lets keep this on a mature level.
Journey, you seem to want to forget the intent part of the equation when it comes to factual inaccuracies. Tasos torpedoed his own argument with the "leaks" of Zitron constantly asking in chat how to do stuff. Maybe this reviewer is just a ritalin addled dumbass that can't figure out a UI. Maybe the UI is so epicly bad that the game deserved a 2/10 just on a clinky, unintuitive UI.
Its impossible to form a lawsuit on a review. By nature they convey opinions and experiences of the author. There would have to be some extreme malicous in a review for any sort of legal consequences to stand a chance.
Journey, you seem to want to forget the intent part of the equation when it comes to factual inaccuracies. Tasos torpedoed his own argument with the "leaks" of Zitron constantly asking in chat how to do stuff. Maybe this reviewer is just a ritalin addled dumbass that can't figure out a UI. Maybe the UI is so epicly bad that the game deserved a 2/10 just on a clinky, unintuitive UI.
Actually, the intent part of the review is not "specific" intent. It's reckless disregard. What that means is whether he should have known that there was mis-information in the review and didn't correct it. If the means to discover the truth are available and they ignored them. Again, that would be an issue for a jury to decide.
gnlucid: You apparently have some kind of access to my personal information based on the photograph. Look me up. www.calbar.org
the game fucking sucks the review is 100% accurate ive gone to any lenght from stopping my freinds to buying darkfall by showing gameplay videos and now none of them have it and thank god for that this game should be canceld if anything
Its impossible to form a lawsuit on a review. By nature they convey opinions and experiences of the author. There would have to be some extreme malicous in a review for any sort of legal consequences to stand a chance.
yes, the definition of malicious intent in this case is posted in the applicable law by the OP. As you can see, it's not impossible to sue for libel, one just needs to meet the elements to successfully sue.
Btw, for those that asked whether there were factual mistatements in the review: Here's a list of what the misstatements along with a description of the correct sway DFO works taken from the EG comment section:
To 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode.
-You simply have to hit F
Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.
-You can auto run while interacting with your inv or anything else, you can also hold shift to sprint while doing these things. (save looting by design)
like an FPS, except with little to no reference point.
-You have a small crosshair on your screen
how slow and floaty the controls tend to be.
-The controls react just like any other FPS (I have 170 ping)
The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible
-Hearing the sound of the sword hitting, blood splattering and the grunt of whatever race or monster is not negligible compared to “whiff”
lack of hit detection
-If you hit, you hit, if you miss, you miss. Hit detection is spot on. There is also an option to turn on hit sounds.
Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork
-I could see this on the first few swings, but each weapon has a set range and it is the same every time you swing it. There is no guesswork, you hit if you are in range.
your combat skills affect how often you actually connect.
-Just false, combat skill has nothing to do with hit or miss.
changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble)
-If you use a hotbar (most people do) it takes as long as it takes you to click a key. In no way can you justify saying this, even if it’s hyperbole (I don’t think it is in this case with nothing on his hotbar)
EverQuest - which was actually graphically superior
- This is opinion, sort of, but no way 99% of people would agree with this, EQ2 maybe.
no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie
- The entire world is hand crafted and looks amazing, no auto generation of terrain or anything.
It doesn't even have [snip] some form of tutorial
- there is a breif tutorial of controls and UI at sigon.
horrible user interface, and broken combat system.
- the UI works fine, it’s FPS not MMO Combat is one of the best parts of the game and is far from broken
the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running
- There is a single server farm called EU1
You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it.
- There is a setting to turn off the UI that you can hotkey
At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute.
- after 15-20 seconds you can hit spacebar and “tapout”
Its interesting that a lot of the information that people are screaming "he's lying" about are not exactly lies so much as inaccuracies. those can be mainly based on what kind of system he was using. Others mention that the disappearing UI is an issue with the graphics card he may have had. If thats the case, crosshairs may not have appeared for him (inaccurate, maybe, a lie? no.) All the things others mention, options to turn on hit sounds, hitting F, alt-h to remove the UI (ALT-H???) are things found by actually searching or asking others, the Alt -h in particular is relatively hard to find out about.
If ANY of the things he mentioned were easily found/discovered he may not have had an issue. I'm sorry , but a Screenshot of the UI etc while signing on is not a tutorial. These days, barely anyone reads the manual that comes with a game and an intuitive UI helps to soften that lack.
He may have had a few things wrong, but you can't claim he knowingly lied which means no Libel.
As a long time player of many MMO's, I am frankly quite astonished by some of the posting regarding this game.
Now, I have not played Darkfall and I dont think I will - this has little to do with any review and more my boredom of the "fantasy" setting.
But I really want to know, and have even set up this account to ask - Does anyone here really think that:
1. That game is as bad as some make out
2. That game is as good as some make out
3. That any one will try and sue anyone else in this glorified forum war
Please just move on - its a niche game, with limited release and if I am really honest most of the people who are in DF now will move on to Mortal Online
Btw, for those that asked whether there were factual mistatements in the review: Here's a list of what the misstatements along with a description of the correct sway DFO works taken from the EG comment section:
To 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode.
-You simply have to hit F
Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.
-You can auto run while interacting with your inv or anything else, you can also hold shift to sprint while doing these things. (save looting by design)
like an FPS, except with little to no reference point.
-You have a small crosshair on your screen
how slow and floaty the controls tend to be.
-The controls react just like any other FPS (I have 170 ping)
The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible
-Hearing the sound of the sword hitting, blood splattering and the grunt of whatever race or monster is not negligible compared to “whiff”
lack of hit detection
-If you hit, you hit, if you miss, you miss. Hit detection is spot on. There is also an option to turn on hit sounds.
Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork
-I could see this on the first few swings, but each weapon has a set range and it is the same every time you swing it. There is no guesswork, you hit if you are in range.
your combat skills affect how often you actually connect.
-Just false, combat skill has nothing to do with hit or miss.
changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble)
-If you use a hotbar (most people do) it takes as long as it takes you to click a key. In no way can you justify saying this, even if it’s hyperbole (I don’t think it is in this case with nothing on his hotbar)
EverQuest - which was actually graphically superior
- This is opinion, sort of, but no way 99% of people would agree with this, EQ2 maybe.
no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie
- The entire world is hand crafted and looks amazing, no auto generation of terrain or anything.
It doesn't even have [snip] some form of tutorial
- there is a breif tutorial of controls and UI at sigon.
horrible user interface, and broken combat system.
- the UI works fine, it’s FPS not MMO Combat is one of the best parts of the game and is far from broken
the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running
- There is a single server farm called EU1
You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it.
- There is a setting to turn off the UI that you can hotkey
At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute.
- after 15-20 seconds you can hit spacebar and “tapout”
Its interesting that a lot of the information that people are screaming "he's lying" about are not exactly lies so much as inaccuracies. those can be mainly based on what kind of system he was using. Others mention that the disappearing UI is an issue with the graphics card he may have had. If thats the case, crosshairs may not have appeared for him (inaccurate, maybe, a lie? no.) All the things others mention, options to turn on hit sounds, hitting F, alt-h to remove the UI (ALT-H???) are things found by actually searching or asking others, the Alt -h in particular is relatively hard to find out about.
If ANY of the things he mentioned were easily found/discovered he may not have had an issue. I'm sorry , but a Screenshot of the UI etc while signing on is not a tutorial. These days, barely anyone reads the manual that comes with a game and an intuitive UI helps to soften that lack.
He may have had a few things wrong, but you can't claim he knowingly lied which means no Libel.
That's an interesting point. I would point out that the law doesn't require actual knowledge that you are lying, but rather a reckless disregard for the truth. Which means if it was readily available for him to discover the truth.
And, it's not a screenshot of the UI that pops up when one starts, but an actual page, detailing a manual showing which keys and buttons do what. It's actually several pages that describe how the UI functions. Sorry if that wasn't explained well enough in the previous posts.
We still live in countries with a minimum of freedom of expression, and until it changed recently, giving a negative review of a video game, or of a movie, TV series, artwork or anything else isn't against any law. If they sue Eurogamer for this, they will only be mocked by the judge during the trial, nothing more. I say "Darkfall sucks and is one of the most crappy MMO release ever". Please sue me.
Then why Ice m'fuckin T's "Copkiller" had to be removed from an music album ?
It was removed by choice by Ice T as he felt the controvesy over the song was drowning the band's musical efforts. Time Warner actually was standing their ground on the issue.
As for can AV sue EG, and no offense to the master lawyer Journey, but no they cannot. There were no lies in the review, misconceptions and lack of overall knowledge of the game yes, but no lies. Also, it is an opinion piece. ALL reviews are opinion pieces. You cannot, whether in the US or in EU sue over an opinion.
Comments
^ This.
Av's priority should be fixing the problems with EU-1 and trying to open US-1. Wasting money with a lawsuit for a bad review will only add more to the injury. What will other game media sites think of a lawsuit because of a negative review, seriously?
I would like to ask, and the other way around? Tasos called the review a fraud and more on his response to the review, pretty harsh there.
There will be no lawsuit cause the critic has no credability and caught lieing. Such a bad review is a insult to every gamer in itself and dont need to be proofed further. But theoretically AV has the right to sue him.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
except for the fact that AV has made it nearly impossible to simply buy the game. this would undermine any damages claim AV would have.
Im going to let your know how hard its to "freedom of expresion" to end in some european countiesWhen Bush, Blair and Aznar (spanish president) took the famous phot in azores and declare war to irak, Aznar need to validate it in spanish congress. He had majority of votes, so no problem there.
Next day one of the opposing groups change the frontpage of their website, composing it with a photo of Aznar, president of Spain and the title Assasin, plus the photos of the other 180 congressmen that voted along him with the title Co-assassin in each one. Obviously Aznar group sued them, but suit was dismised under the claim to their right to execute "political criticism"
Problem with OP's theory is his definition of libel specifically talks about personal libel. I don't recall the review attacking Tasos or any of AV staff personally. You can't sue someone for a bad review. Saying Darkfall is shit isn't libel. Saying Tasos is a child pornographer would be libel. Tasos calling Ed a fraud would be closer to libel than anything Ed said, but I doubt Ed would have a case either.
This thread is ridiculous.
if the dev team isn't hardcore, and is instead a bunch of QQ sissies... how in the world can they create a hardcore game?
seriously, instead of all this whining tasos is doing, he could've updated the website to where it is USEFUL.
0/10 so far, just trying to log into this game. too bad there's not an 'account' link easily found/accessible from the bloody darkfallonline.com website.
yeah, i'm going into this just like any random person off the street. so far, i can't even log into the damn game. 2/10 is very generous from what i'm seeing thus far.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
This. Seriously, journey and Darth and Zodan... just GO AWAY. You cannot sue based on a bad review, it's called freedom of speech. Tasos himself has proven that Ed played the game and he even, though probably illegal, publicly disclosed parts of his chat history which he asked how to play and what to do. That clearly means he played and was seeking help to play the game better. The terrible, terrible community obviously didn't help him at all, he ran out of patience, and quit playing after a few hours.
Tasos on the other hand directly called Ed a liar and a fraud. Ed is a public figure where his reputation as a writer is all he has. Tasos publicly slandered his name for his own benefit. If anyone has a case, it's definitely Ed, not AV. And Ed would probably lose too.
Because we all know going to a forum and trying to have a discussion is ridiculous. I mean really, we should just continue with the, "DFO sux" "No it doesn't" kind of threads.
Personally, I agree that AV probably wouldn't win, but it doesn't mean they couldn't sue and try. I would agree there is enough to make a case, but I don't think there is enough for them to win. All that needs to be done is for EG to disprove or essentially cast doubt on one of the points from what I can see.
And yes, you can sue for a bad review (check the links below this), whether or not you can win, is another matter entirely.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/24/ebay_negative_feedback_leads_to_libel_threats/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jan/20/pressandpublishing.law
Seriously, it's silly what people will sue over sometimes.
LOL I guess you're right that you CAN sue someone for anything, although I thought most EU countries had a "loser pays" system to prevent the frivilous lawsuits that plague America. I should have said "You can't sue over a bad review and win". The first time this happens, kiss any reviews of anything goodbye.
What an absurdly ridiculous thread. Get over it fellas. If all 8,000 of you like the game, great. 99% of gamers won't and/or don't.
And that has contributed nothing. This thread has nothing about liking or disliking DF.
Seriously, if you find it ridiculous, stop posting in it, quit bumping it, and let it die. It eventually will if you leave it alone. All you do by posting how ridiculous is give it another chance to jump back to life for someone else to look at and comment.
Don't know about the EU system, but if that is true, then it's an idea I like. As for the rest, it will be a bad day indeed if any real precedence were to get set for something like this.
There's no such thing as "personal" libel as opposed to another form of libel. It does talk about a person, but the definition of libel can very well apply to a company as well.
Some people earlier argued that a person can't be sued for an opinion, while this is partially true, there were many parts of the review that were presented as facts, but were incorrect. One can be sued for mistatements of facts that are reckless disregard for the truth.
I'll give an example based on a real case. A person goes to a crowded theater and forms the "opinion" there is a fire, when there isn't one. He yells out "Fire!" and all the people in the theater panic and flee, trampling several people on the way out. Guess what? Not only can you sue the person for shouting "Fire!" It can be a crime. There are limits to freedom of speech.
For those saying that lawsuits are more difficult in Europe, please post the law, so a proper analysis could be done. Just saying, "you can't sue in Europe" doesn't really allow us to make a logical presentation as to why not.
Until that's done, it'd only be fair to do an analysis based on the law that has been posted.
"We report stories as we see them, as accurately and impartially as possible - we serve our readers and thereby our advertisers best by being reliable, fair and impartial." - EuroGamer.
Defamation of character requires that said defamer reports something as solid fact, black and white.
Learn your law kids. For example; It is my opinion that all DarkFall fans are nothing more than children on the life-long virginity plan with a whole hell of alot of nerd rage.
I am not defaming you, as I am stating that it is my OPINION, not fact.
...though my statement is more than likely true.
I'm Awesome, Deal With It.
Btw, for those that asked whether there were factual mistatements in the review: Here's a list of what the misstatements along with a description of the correct sway DFO works taken from the EG comment section:
To 'do' anything - talk to an NPC, bind yourself to a location, loot a corpse, and so on - you have to click the right mouse button to toggle between interaction or movement mode.
-You simply have to hit F
Unbelievably, to do anything that involves any interaction at all, you have to stop still - this includes any and all inventory management, looting, chatting - anything interactive.
-You can auto run while interacting with your inv or anything else, you can also hold shift to sprint while doing these things. (save looting by design)
like an FPS, except with little to no reference point.
-You have a small crosshair on your screen
how slow and floaty the controls tend to be.
-The controls react just like any other FPS (I have 170 ping)
The difference in feedback between a sword hitting or missing is negligible
-Hearing the sound of the sword hitting, blood splattering and the grunt of whatever race or monster is not negligible compared to “whiff”
lack of hit detection
-If you hit, you hit, if you miss, you miss. Hit detection is spot on. There is also an option to turn on hit sounds.
Judging the distance that one needs to be at to fight a foe is largely guesswork
-I could see this on the first few swings, but each weapon has a set range and it is the same every time you swing it. There is no guesswork, you hit if you are in range.
your combat skills affect how often you actually connect.
-Just false, combat skill has nothing to do with hit or miss.
changing weapon (a ten-second operation - five if you're particularly nimble)
-If you use a hotbar (most people do) it takes as long as it takes you to click a key. In no way can you justify saying this, even if it’s hyperbole (I don’t think it is in this case with nothing on his hotbar)
EverQuest - which was actually graphically superior
- This is opinion, sort of, but no way 99% of people would agree with this, EQ2 maybe.
no definition in areas except those where you spawn as a newbie
- The entire world is hand crafted and looks amazing, no auto generation of terrain or anything.
It doesn't even have [snip] some form of tutorial
- there is a breif tutorial of controls and UI at sigon.
horrible user interface, and broken combat system.
- the UI works fine, it’s FPS not MMO Combat is one of the best parts of the game and is far from broken
the few Darkfall servers Adventurine is running
- There is a single server farm called EU1
You can't turn off the UI - the game just occasionally forgets to load it.
- There is a setting to turn off the UI that you can hotkey
At times you'll be left waiting to die - for up to a minute.
- after 15-20 seconds you can hit spacebar and “tapout”
I'm sorry, I know my law. Please see my previous post for the mis-statements of fact. While the final opinion is just that, an opinion. There are plenty of things passed off as fact in the review.
I've really focused on making this an intellectual debate discussing a hypothetical libel lawsuit. You've likened me to a "child with a life-long virginity plan" and described my posts as "nerd-rage" Could you please point out which of my posts in this thread you consider childish and rage-like?"
Unlike you, I haven't resorted to calling names, or belittling any of the arguments above, even if they don't correspond to my own. So, please lets keep this on a mature level.
Journey, you seem to want to forget the intent part of the equation when it comes to factual inaccuracies. Tasos torpedoed his own argument with the "leaks" of Zitron constantly asking in chat how to do stuff. Maybe this reviewer is just a ritalin addled dumbass that can't figure out a UI. Maybe the UI is so epicly bad that the game deserved a 2/10 just on a clinky, unintuitive UI.
Its impossible to form a lawsuit on a review. By nature they convey opinions and experiences of the author. There would have to be some extreme malicous in a review for any sort of legal consequences to stand a chance.
Actually, the intent part of the review is not "specific" intent. It's reckless disregard. What that means is whether he should have known that there was mis-information in the review and didn't correct it. If the means to discover the truth are available and they ignored them. Again, that would be an issue for a jury to decide.
gnlucid: You apparently have some kind of access to my personal information based on the photograph. Look me up. www.calbar.org
the game fucking sucks the review is 100% accurate ive gone to any lenght from stopping my freinds to buying darkfall by showing gameplay videos and now none of them have it and thank god for that this game should be canceld if anything
yes, the definition of malicious intent in this case is posted in the applicable law by the OP. As you can see, it's not impossible to sue for libel, one just needs to meet the elements to successfully sue.
Its interesting that a lot of the information that people are screaming "he's lying" about are not exactly lies so much as inaccuracies. those can be mainly based on what kind of system he was using. Others mention that the disappearing UI is an issue with the graphics card he may have had. If thats the case, crosshairs may not have appeared for him (inaccurate, maybe, a lie? no.) All the things others mention, options to turn on hit sounds, hitting F, alt-h to remove the UI (ALT-H???) are things found by actually searching or asking others, the Alt -h in particular is relatively hard to find out about.
If ANY of the things he mentioned were easily found/discovered he may not have had an issue. I'm sorry , but a Screenshot of the UI etc while signing on is not a tutorial. These days, barely anyone reads the manual that comes with a game and an intuitive UI helps to soften that lack.
He may have had a few things wrong, but you can't claim he knowingly lied which means no Libel.
As a long time player of many MMO's, I am frankly quite astonished by some of the posting regarding this game.
Now, I have not played Darkfall and I dont think I will - this has little to do with any review and more my boredom of the "fantasy" setting.
But I really want to know, and have even set up this account to ask - Does anyone here really think that:
1. That game is as bad as some make out
2. That game is as good as some make out
3. That any one will try and sue anyone else in this glorified forum war
Please just move on - its a niche game, with limited release and if I am really honest most of the people who are in DF now will move on to Mortal Online
Play nice
Its interesting that a lot of the information that people are screaming "he's lying" about are not exactly lies so much as inaccuracies. those can be mainly based on what kind of system he was using. Others mention that the disappearing UI is an issue with the graphics card he may have had. If thats the case, crosshairs may not have appeared for him (inaccurate, maybe, a lie? no.) All the things others mention, options to turn on hit sounds, hitting F, alt-h to remove the UI (ALT-H???) are things found by actually searching or asking others, the Alt -h in particular is relatively hard to find out about.
If ANY of the things he mentioned were easily found/discovered he may not have had an issue. I'm sorry , but a Screenshot of the UI etc while signing on is not a tutorial. These days, barely anyone reads the manual that comes with a game and an intuitive UI helps to soften that lack.
He may have had a few things wrong, but you can't claim he knowingly lied which means no Libel.
That's an interesting point. I would point out that the law doesn't require actual knowledge that you are lying, but rather a reckless disregard for the truth. Which means if it was readily available for him to discover the truth.
And, it's not a screenshot of the UI that pops up when one starts, but an actual page, detailing a manual showing which keys and buttons do what. It's actually several pages that describe how the UI functions. Sorry if that wasn't explained well enough in the previous posts.
Then why Ice m'fuckin T's "Copkiller" had to be removed from an music album ?
It was removed by choice by Ice T as he felt the controvesy over the song was drowning the band's musical efforts. Time Warner actually was standing their ground on the issue.
As for can AV sue EG, and no offense to the master lawyer Journey, but no they cannot. There were no lies in the review, misconceptions and lack of overall knowledge of the game yes, but no lies. Also, it is an opinion piece. ALL reviews are opinion pieces. You cannot, whether in the US or in EU sue over an opinion.