Eurogamer is a large and pretty well respected gaming publication. It's probably insulting to them to allege that they cared about Darkfall or its meager fan base enough to do this simply for publicity's sake.
Yes I expect they are quite well respected , so if thats the case do you think them leaving a review of a game that is flawed to such an obvious extent and written with practically zero journalistic integrity , up on their site , dont you think the least they could have done was take the review down pending further investigation ?.
After all even people that dont care for game are mostly saying that Zitron's review was appalling and no way could an mmo have a fair review after only a few hours actually playing it.
Maybe your right they probably did'nt care about Darkfall and its fanbase , although maybe they should care about their own integrity as gaming site.
Anyway despite that what do you think , will a re- review be fair ?
First off, its only you and a few who keeps saying its flawed. Keane, for one, and well respected one, agrees with Zit basically. I remember reading more player agreeing with Zit's view than fanboy wild screams. 2/10 or 4/10 matters little. The same recommendations from Zit and keane, "stay away from it at all costs".
Whether EG should use Zit is none of your business. Go look into a mirror, you do not see the chief editor in the mirror, so you know, your view counts for nothing when it comes to EG business. Stop pretending you have a say.
I believe that the EG chief editor is a reasonable supervisor. The way he handled Tasos's babycry shows maturity, consideration and tact. I have seen nothing from EG editorial that showed serious issues. I would thus believe that EG and Zit are reliable and "normal" people.
Your question is stupid. Reviews are not legal courts, the foundation is not fairness. Reviews are expression of views, which by nature are subjection. The fact that you keep pushing such a stupid question means you are either stupid or trolling/baiting.
Yes because after reading the Zitron zero journalistic integrity Train Wreck of a review, I would like to think that a respected game journalist of Kieron Gillens stature , would have a really solid undisputable reason for giving Darkfall 2/10 , so hence the "maybe" .
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
Yes because after reading the Zitron zero journalistic integrity Train Wreck of a review, I would like to think that a respected game journalist of Kieron Gillens stature , would have a really solid undisputable reason for giving Darkfall 2/10 , so hence the "maybe" .
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
And says who Zit has zero integrity?
Zit got hired by EG. He got a job. His review is published by EG. The editorial of EG backed Zit and basically refuted baby Tasos.
Who here is trying to smear Zit's name? With what proof, or what credential? You? Oh never mind. Come back and try again if you have something serious and worth considering.
Eurogamer is a large and pretty well respected gaming publication. It's probably insulting to them to allege that they cared about Darkfall or its meager fan base enough to do this simply for publicity's sake.
Yes I expect they are quite well respected , so if thats the case do you think them leaving a review of a game that is flawed to such an obvious extent and written with practically zero journalistic integrity , up on their site , dont you think the least they could have done was take the review down pending further investigation ?.
After all even people that dont care for game are mostly saying that Zitron's review was appalling and no way could an mmo have a fair review after only a few hours actually playing it.
Maybe your right they probably did'nt care about Darkfall and its fanbase , although maybe they should care about their own integrity as gaming site.
Anyway despite that what do you think , will a re- review be fair ?
First off, its only you and a few who keeps saying its flawed. Keane, for one, and well respected one, agrees with Zit basically. I remember reading more player agreeing with Zit's view than fanboy wild screams. 2/10 or 4/10 matters little. The same recommendations from Zit and keane, "stay away from it at all costs".
Whether EG should use Zit is none of your business. Go look into a mirror, you do not see the chief editor in the mirror, so you know, your view counts for nothing when it comes to EG business. Stop pretending you have a say.
I believe that the EG chief editor is a reasonable supervisor. The way he handled Tasos's babycry shows maturity, consideration and tact. I have seen nothing from EG editorial that showed serious issues. I would thus believe that EG and Zit are reliable and "normal" people.
Your question is stupid. Reviews are not legal courts, the foundation is not fairness. Reviews are expression of views, which by nature are subjection. The fact that you keep pushing such a stupid question means you are either stupid or trolling/baiting.
As far as baiting is concerned .. perhaps its you who should check the mirror ? This is one Bait I wont be biting but your comments have been noted thankyou.
Yes because after reading the Zitron zero journalistic integrity Train Wreck of a review, I would like to think that a respected game journalist of Kieron Gillens stature , would have a really solid undisputable reason for giving Darkfall 2/10 , so hence the "maybe" .
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts
{critic,commentator, judge}
*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.
*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio
{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack, journo, newsman or newswoman, pressman.}
So argue all you want but those two professions are as alike as day and night the only common ground they have is that they are both also called "commentators" , so i don't see what journalistic integrity has to do with Ed as he clearly is a reviewer and was giving just his opinion with the only differenve from the rest of us doing so being that he is geting paid for it.
Yes because after reading the Zitron zero journalistic integrity Train Wreck of a review, I would like to think that a respected game journalist of Kieron Gillens stature , would have a really solid undisputable reason for giving Darkfall 2/10 , so hence the "maybe" .
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts
{critic,commentator, judge}
*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.
*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio
{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack, journo, newsman or newswoman, pressman.}
So argue all you want but those two professions are as alike as day and night the only common ground they have is that they are both also called "commentators" , so i don't see what journalistic integrity has to do with Ed as he clearly is a reviewer and was giving just his opinion with the only differenve from the rest of us doing so being that he is geting paid for it.
Well in that case all I think I can is suggest you read you own Avatar sig ...
Yes because after reading the Zitron zero journalistic integrity Train Wreck of a review, I would like to think that a respected game journalist of Kieron Gillens stature , would have a really solid undisputable reason for giving Darkfall 2/10 , so hence the "maybe" .
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts
{critic,commentator, judge}
*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.
*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio
{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack, journo, newsman or newswoman, pressman.}
So argue all you want but those two professions are as alike as day and night the only common ground they have is that they are both also called "commentators" , so i don't see what journalistic integrity has to do with Ed as he clearly is a reviewer and was giving just his opinion with the only differenve from the rest of us doing so being that he is geting paid for it.
Well in that case all I think I can is suggest you read you own Avatar sig ...
I'm sorry you clearly missed the part where i presented you with proof in my previous posts supporting my claims, we are beyond opinions now and have now entered the domain of actual facts. So unless you have some proof supporting your claims that for all intents and purposes a reviewer is considered in fact a jounalist and thus falling under the same ethics as him i would suggest from refrain to post on the matter furthermore just because anything you may say from now on will be considered as opinion without the proof to support it.
Yes because after reading the Zitron zero journalistic integrity Train Wreck of a review, I would like to think that a respected game journalist of Kieron Gillens stature , would have a really solid undisputable reason for giving Darkfall 2/10 , so hence the "maybe" .
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts
{critic,commentator, judge}
*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.
*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio
{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack, journo, newsman or newswoman, pressman.}
So argue all you want but those two professions are as alike as day and night the only common ground they have is that they are both also called "commentators" , so i don't see what journalistic integrity has to do with Ed as he clearly is a reviewer and was giving just his opinion with the only differenve from the rest of us doing so being that he is geting paid for it.
Well in that case all I think I can is suggest you read you own Avatar sig ...
I'm sorry you clearly missed the part where i presented you with proof in my previous posts supporting my claims, we are beyond opinions now and have now entered the domain of actual facts. So unless you have some proof supporting your claims that for all intents and purposes a reviewer is considered in fact a jounalist and thus falling under the same ethics as him i would suggest from refrain to post on the matter furthermore just because anything you may say from now on will be considered as opinion without the proof to support it.
Well how's this then " In my "opinion" a Journalist/ Magazine/Critic etc would all " In my Opinion" come under the same morals ethics code of conduct etc ...
there how's that for you and " In my Opinion" that should make you sleep better .
Though I would just like to add this all is just "My Opinion "
Well how's this then " In my "opinion" a Journalist/ Magazine/Critic etc would all " In my Opinion" come under the same morals ethics code of conduct etc ...
there how's that for you and " In my Opinion" that should make you sleep better .
Though I would just like to add this all is just "My Opinion "
Happy now ?
Well i wasn't gonna lose sleep over something like this but yes it's much more accurate this way. Even though IMO you shouldn't have put the "In my opinion" line 3 times in there since the average person would be contempt and being perfectly to understand it with only one, but whatever helps YOU understand those things better
Eurogamer is a large and pretty well respected gaming publication. It's probably insulting to them to allege that they cared about Darkfall or its meager fan base enough to do this simply for publicity's sake.
Yes I expect they are quite well respected , so if thats the case do you think them leaving a review of a game that is flawed to such an obvious extent and written with practically zero journalistic integrity , up on their site , dont you think the least they could have done was take the review down pending further investigation ?.
After all even people that dont care for game are mostly saying that Zitron's review was appalling and no way could an mmo have a fair review after only a few hours actually playing it.
Maybe your right they probably did'nt care about Darkfall and its fanbase , although maybe they should care about their own integrity as gaming site.
Anyway despite that what do you think , will a re- review be fair ?
In fact he went so far as to say this about the review...
"...the gist of what he is saying is true."
Reading the comments on EuroGamer's site it also seems to be about 50/50 about the review. So, it would appear that your previous claims would be a bit of hyperbole. Kind of like the review was using.
Well how's this then " In my "opinion" a Journalist/ Magazine/Critic etc would all " In my Opinion" come under the same morals ethics code of conduct etc ...
there how's that for you and " In my Opinion" that should make you sleep better .
Though I would just like to add this all is just "My Opinion "
Happy now ?
Well i wasn't gonna lose sleep over something like this but yes it's much more accurate this way. Even though IMO you shouldn't have put the "In my opinion" line 3 times in there since the average person would be contempt and being perfectly to understand it with only one, but whatever helps YOU understand those things better
Ed Zits reviews are pretty much in depth of "OMGTHISSUX" or "OMGTHISROX"
Kierons reviews seem to be far less shallow.
Nonsense, I read his review and I have played the game and it is spot on. He brought up specific issues with the game such as outdated gfx, the whole sheating/unsheating/activating mess, getting in and out of interact mode and so on.
So it is far from the OMGTHISSUX. I feel that is more like how the typical Darkfall fan responded to his review. The typical: "He sucks, go back to WoW you carebear" nonsense.
He seems like a good reviewer but DEFINATELY a casual MMO fan. I mean I loved GW and love DF also but they are very different game types. He'll either love it or hate it, but hopefully at least appreciate it is at least TRYING to do something new.
Ed Zits reviews are pretty much in depth of "OMGTHISSUX" or "OMGTHISROX"
Kierons reviews seem to be far less shallow.
Nonsense, I read his review and I have played the game and it is spot on. He brought up specific issues with the game such as outdated gfx, the whole sheating/unsheating/activating mess, getting in and out of interact mode and so on.
So it is far from the OMGTHISSUX. I feel that is more like how the typical Darkfall fan responded to his review. The typical: "He sucks, go back to WoW you carebear" nonsense.
You obviously haven't played as nearly everything he mentioned in regards to usability and the UI were outright blatant lies, and it's obvious he didn't even play from the fact that any ss with his hotbar in it had NO SLOTS BOUND, meaning he was opening his pack and doubleclicking shit to equip it.
Ed Zits reviews are pretty much in depth of "OMGTHISSUX" or "OMGTHISROX"
Kierons reviews seem to be far less shallow.
Nonsense, I read his review and I have played the game and it is spot on. He brought up specific issues with the game such as outdated gfx, the whole sheating/unsheating/activating mess, getting in and out of interact mode and so on.
So it is far from the OMGTHISSUX. I feel that is more like how the typical Darkfall fan responded to his review. The typical: "He sucks, go back to WoW you carebear" nonsense.
You obviously haven't played as nearly everything he mentioned in regards to usability and the UI were outright blatant lies, and it's obvious he didn't even play from the fact that any ss with his hotbar in it had NO SLOTS BOUND, meaning he was opening his pack and doubleclicking shit to equip it.
a little devils advocate here, and not that i plan on getting in any sort of discussion about it, what if the screen shots that were posted included no hotkeys bound because he wanted clean images? Many review sites turn off WoW's UI. Does that mean they are playing WoW with out any UI usage? Yup, must be that.
Now, did he use the keys? who knows, i'd have to imagine he did and took shots for cleanliness.
Ed Zits reviews are pretty much in depth of "OMGTHISSUX" or "OMGTHISROX"
Kierons reviews seem to be far less shallow.
Nonsense, I read his review and I have played the game and it is spot on. He brought up specific issues with the game such as outdated gfx, the whole sheating/unsheating/activating mess, getting in and out of interact mode and so on.
So it is far from the OMGTHISSUX. I feel that is more like how the typical Darkfall fan responded to his review. The typical: "He sucks, go back to WoW you carebear" nonsense.
You obviously haven't played as nearly everything he mentioned in regards to usability and the UI were outright blatant lies, and it's obvious he didn't even play from the fact that any ss with his hotbar in it had NO SLOTS BOUND, meaning he was opening his pack and doubleclicking shit to equip it.
a little devils advocate here, and not that i plan on getting in any sort of discussion about it, what if the screen shots that were posted included no hotkeys bound because he wanted clean images? Many review sites turn off WoW's UI. Does that mean they are playing WoW with out any UI usage? Yup, must be that.
Now, did he use the keys? who knows, i'd have to imagine he did and took shots for cleanliness.
Everyone who has actually played the game knows it takes .5seconds if that to switch weapons, 1-2seconds to go through unsheathing animation at most and that's with a polearm. He claims the UI randomly turns off and you can't manually do it, even though it DOES NOT randomly turn off and you CAN manually do it via ALT + H. He obviously has no hand eye coordination as he claimed that hitting people was based on pure luck even though you get a crosshair on your screen for where your swings will be centered or archery/magic will be aimed. I'd have to imagine that for once Tasos IS NOT lying, and this guy made up his entire review from forumtroll postings, as in one of the screenshots you can even see him saying in chat HOW DO I PLAY or something similar.
He didn't even try, he merely said oh, full loot ffa pvp game, fuck that shit it must suck and made up a shitton of lies about it.
If he gives it 10/10 it will be deemed fair and unbiased. If he gives it 1/10 it will be deemed unfair and biased. Isn't it obvious?
Ahh yes but you forgot the middle ground or grey areas .. what if if gives it "6 or 7" or "4 or 5 "or even" 6.5" or "4.5 ? "
wont be so obvious then would it ?
If he gave MxO a 5/10 after launch, I think Tasos batter brace himself for the new review. He may be sorry he made such a demand. The score may be a *bit* higher, but my guess is it will still be pretty insulting to his ego. Plus this review will be by a guy that is being vaulted to the highest degree of honestly and integrity by the people on the boards.
I think this is gonna backfire on Darkfall, and I am gonna laugh...hard...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
If he gives it 10/10 it will be deemed fair and unbiased. If he gives it 1/10 it will be deemed unfair and biased. Isn't it obvious?
Ahh yes but you forgot the middle ground or grey areas .. what if if gives it "6 or 7" or "4 or 5 "or even" 6.5" or "4.5 ? "
wont be so obvious then would it ?
If he gave MxO a 5/10 after launch, I think Tasos batter brace himself for the new review. He may be sorry he made such a demand. The score may be a *bit* higher, but my guess is it will still be pretty insulting to his ego. Plus this review will be by a guy that is being vaulted to the highest degree of honestly and integrity by the people on the boards.
I think this is gonna backfire on Darkfall, and I am gonna laugh...hard...
It's not a polished game, I wouldn't expect higher than a 5 or a 6, especially due to it's nature as a niche game. In the category of MMO that it's in, I'd give it an overall 6 or 7, which is only not a 8 or 9 due to the bugs that are still being worked out and balancing issues still being worked on post release. Give it 3-4months and it'll be a 7 or 8 in it's own are of MMO types, but overall could never break a 6 with the mainstream crowd.
If he gives it 10/10 it will be deemed fair and unbiased. If he gives it 1/10 it will be deemed unfair and biased. Isn't it obvious?
Ahh yes but you forgot the middle ground or grey areas .. what if if gives it "6 or 7" or "4 or 5 "or even" 6.5" or "4.5 ? "
wont be so obvious then would it ?
If he gave MxO a 5/10 after launch, I think Tasos batter brace himself for the new review. He may be sorry he made such a demand. The score may be a *bit* higher, but my guess is it will still be pretty insulting to his ego. Plus this review will be by a guy that is being vaulted to the highest degree of honestly and integrity by the people on the boards.
I think this is gonna backfire on Darkfall, and I am gonna laugh...hard...
Well as I said in my OP I checked out Kieron Gillens other Mmo reviews on Eurogamer and read them all , I have played all the games he reviewed including the Matrix Online , I do think he's a very honest reviewer although as some have pointed "maybe " sometimes a little harsher than others, but thats fine for people that use reviews as a guide to buy or sub to game or not, because it seems he tells it like it is without really any frills.
As for the Matrix Online review I perhaps would have given maybe 1 point higher because it tried to be different and was quite fun although as he stated the parts did'nt quite work together as a whole.
I am playing Darkfall as we speak and as someone relativley new to PVP, I have to say I am really enjoying it and I am enjoying it far more than I did the Matrix Online ... yes it has issues and there are a heap of changes that need to be made for it to settle down and become successful.
So I for one ( and its just my opinion) would quite probably expect Keiron Gillen not to give Darkfall a high score and I would predict it will be around the middle point , however if he gives it any lower tha the Matrix Online I think it would make me a little suspicious because without a shadow of a doubt its much better than the Matrix Online was and I'm convinced alot of people who have played both games would agree.
As for Tasos having to Brace Himself ... well the Movie Perfect Storm comes to mind for me.
I cant wait for the new review because I find all this quite fascinating !
Yes because after reading the Zitron zero journalistic integrity Train Wreck of a review, I would like to think that a respected game journalist of Kieron Gillens stature , would have a really solid undisputable reason for giving Darkfall 2/10 , so hence the "maybe" .
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
*sigh*
crit·ic
Pronunciation:
?kri-tik
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin criticus, from Greek kritikos, from kritikos able to discern or judge, from krinein
Date: 1588
1 a: one who expresses a reasoned opinion on any matter especially involving a judgment of its value, truth, righteousness, beauty, or technique b: one who engages often professionally in the analysis, evaluation, or appreciation of works of art or artistic performances
2: one given to harsh or captious judgment.
See what's highlighted in RED. Journalists who do those things ultimately LOSE THEIR CREDIBILITY and usually THEIR JOBS.
And for additional reference...in RED again.
jour·nal·ism
Pronunciation: ?j?r-n?-?li-z?m
Function: noun
Date: 1828
1 a: the collection and editing of news for presentation through the media b: the public press c: an academic study concerned with the collection and editing of news or the management of a news medium2 a: writing designed for publication in a newspaper or magazine b: writing characterized by a direct presentation of facts or description of events without an attempt at interpretation c: writing designed to appeal to current popular taste or public interest
Journalists and Critics are polar opposites of each other in what they communicate.
I would be inclined to think they are stuck in a viscious cycle now. I'm sure Eurogamer was about as happy with the Tasos reply as he was with the review.
Would be interesting to see a 1/10 to keep the "DRAMA" going.......
~Hairysun~
Actually considering the increased traffic boost that EuroGamer got as a result of all the advertising that Tasos did for them... I'd say they were VERY happy with the results. Quite a bit happier than Tasos was with a 2/10 review it would seem anyway.
I would expect them to play up the "Re-Review" as well.
It makes very little personal difference to them what the score is, or even what the words in the review are.
They are a site that generates it's revenue from the number of hits the site gets. All this "drama" did for them was increase their revenue... what incentive would they have to try and make the "drama" go away?
The best outcome for EuroGamer would be a "Re-review" score on one end of the spectrum or the other. So, a 1-2, or a 9-10. All of the scores in the middle will have varying degrees of less impact. The absolute worst from them would be scores in the 5-6 range.
Regardless of how the next score comes out... there are a lot more people that know of EuroGamer now than did before Tasos' rant.
Hmmmm ....... some valid points as usual Xzyax. I had honestly never heard of Eurogamer or Ed Zitron prior to the review so someone apparently did their job. Perhaps it was Tasos.
You mention the next review potentially being on one end of the spectrum or the other. With that logic don't you think it would actually be more advantageous for Eurogamer to give another 1-2. I'm sure Tasos would comment on an excessively high (9-10) score, but there is nothing like a dev showing his ass. Another excessively low one, lol, would certainly bring out his best.
Comments
Yes I expect they are quite well respected , so if thats the case do you think them leaving a review of a game that is flawed to such an obvious extent and written with practically zero journalistic integrity , up on their site , dont you think the least they could have done was take the review down pending further investigation ?.
After all even people that dont care for game are mostly saying that Zitron's review was appalling and no way could an mmo have a fair review after only a few hours actually playing it.
Maybe your right they probably did'nt care about Darkfall and its fanbase , although maybe they should care about their own integrity as gaming site.
Anyway despite that what do you think , will a re- review be fair ?
First off, its only you and a few who keeps saying its flawed. Keane, for one, and well respected one, agrees with Zit basically. I remember reading more player agreeing with Zit's view than fanboy wild screams. 2/10 or 4/10 matters little. The same recommendations from Zit and keane, "stay away from it at all costs".
Whether EG should use Zit is none of your business. Go look into a mirror, you do not see the chief editor in the mirror, so you know, your view counts for nothing when it comes to EG business. Stop pretending you have a say.
I believe that the EG chief editor is a reasonable supervisor. The way he handled Tasos's babycry shows maturity, consideration and tact. I have seen nothing from EG editorial that showed serious issues. I would thus believe that EG and Zit are reliable and "normal" people.
Your question is stupid. Reviews are not legal courts, the foundation is not fairness. Reviews are expression of views, which by nature are subjection. The fact that you keep pushing such a stupid question means you are either stupid or trolling/baiting.
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
And says who Zit has zero integrity?
Zit got hired by EG. He got a job. His review is published by EG. The editorial of EG backed Zit and basically refuted baby Tasos.
Who here is trying to smear Zit's name? With what proof, or what credential? You? Oh never mind. Come back and try again if you have something serious and worth considering.
Yes I expect they are quite well respected , so if thats the case do you think them leaving a review of a game that is flawed to such an obvious extent and written with practically zero journalistic integrity , up on their site , dont you think the least they could have done was take the review down pending further investigation ?.
After all even people that dont care for game are mostly saying that Zitron's review was appalling and no way could an mmo have a fair review after only a few hours actually playing it.
Maybe your right they probably did'nt care about Darkfall and its fanbase , although maybe they should care about their own integrity as gaming site.
Anyway despite that what do you think , will a re- review be fair ?
First off, its only you and a few who keeps saying its flawed. Keane, for one, and well respected one, agrees with Zit basically. I remember reading more player agreeing with Zit's view than fanboy wild screams. 2/10 or 4/10 matters little. The same recommendations from Zit and keane, "stay away from it at all costs".
Whether EG should use Zit is none of your business. Go look into a mirror, you do not see the chief editor in the mirror, so you know, your view counts for nothing when it comes to EG business. Stop pretending you have a say.
I believe that the EG chief editor is a reasonable supervisor. The way he handled Tasos's babycry shows maturity, consideration and tact. I have seen nothing from EG editorial that showed serious issues. I would thus believe that EG and Zit are reliable and "normal" people.
Your question is stupid. Reviews are not legal courts, the foundation is not fairness. Reviews are expression of views, which by nature are subjection. The fact that you keep pushing such a stupid question means you are either stupid or trolling/baiting.
As far as baiting is concerned .. perhaps its you who should check the mirror ? This is one Bait I wont be biting but your comments have been noted thankyou.
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts
{critic,commentator, judge}
*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.
*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio
{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack, journo, newsman or newswoman, pressman.}
So argue all you want but those two professions are as alike as day and night the only common ground they have is that they are both also called "commentators" , so i don't see what journalistic integrity has to do with Ed as he clearly is a reviewer and was giving just his opinion with the only differenve from the rest of us doing so being that he is geting paid for it.
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts
{critic,commentator, judge}
*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.
*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio
{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack, journo, newsman or newswoman, pressman.}
So argue all you want but those two professions are as alike as day and night the only common ground they have is that they are both also called "commentators" , so i don't see what journalistic integrity has to do with Ed as he clearly is a reviewer and was giving just his opinion with the only differenve from the rest of us doing so being that he is geting paid for it.
Well in that case all I think I can is suggest you read you own Avatar sig ...
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts
{critic,commentator, judge}
*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.
*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio
{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack, journo, newsman or newswoman, pressman.}
So argue all you want but those two professions are as alike as day and night the only common ground they have is that they are both also called "commentators" , so i don't see what journalistic integrity has to do with Ed as he clearly is a reviewer and was giving just his opinion with the only differenve from the rest of us doing so being that he is geting paid for it.
Well in that case all I think I can is suggest you read you own Avatar sig ...
I'm sorry you clearly missed the part where i presented you with proof in my previous posts supporting my claims, we are beyond opinions now and have now entered the domain of actual facts. So unless you have some proof supporting your claims that for all intents and purposes a reviewer is considered in fact a jounalist and thus falling under the same ethics as him i would suggest from refrain to post on the matter furthermore just because anything you may say from now on will be considered as opinion without the proof to support it.
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
*I type "reviewer" in my Lexicon and i get this definition: A reviewer is a person who reviews new, books ,films,records,plays or concerts
{critic,commentator, judge}
*i type "review" and i get:A review is a report in the media in which someone gives their opinion of something such as a new book or film.
*Now i type in "journalist" and i get this definition: A journalist is a person that whose job is to collect news and write about it for newspapers, magazines, television ot radio
{reporter,broadcaster,collumnist, commentator, correspondent,hack, journo, newsman or newswoman, pressman.}
So argue all you want but those two professions are as alike as day and night the only common ground they have is that they are both also called "commentators" , so i don't see what journalistic integrity has to do with Ed as he clearly is a reviewer and was giving just his opinion with the only differenve from the rest of us doing so being that he is geting paid for it.
Well in that case all I think I can is suggest you read you own Avatar sig ...
I'm sorry you clearly missed the part where i presented you with proof in my previous posts supporting my claims, we are beyond opinions now and have now entered the domain of actual facts. So unless you have some proof supporting your claims that for all intents and purposes a reviewer is considered in fact a jounalist and thus falling under the same ethics as him i would suggest from refrain to post on the matter furthermore just because anything you may say from now on will be considered as opinion without the proof to support it.
Well how's this then " In my "opinion" a Journalist/ Magazine/Critic etc would all " In my Opinion" come under the same morals ethics code of conduct etc ...
there how's that for you and " In my Opinion" that should make you sleep better .
Though I would just like to add this all is just "My Opinion "
Happy now ?
Well how's this then " In my "opinion" a Journalist/ Magazine/Critic etc would all " In my Opinion" come under the same morals ethics code of conduct etc ...
there how's that for you and " In my Opinion" that should make you sleep better .
Though I would just like to add this all is just "My Opinion "
Happy now ?
Well i wasn't gonna lose sleep over something like this but yes it's much more accurate this way. Even though IMO you shouldn't have put the "In my opinion" line 3 times in there since the average person would be contempt and being perfectly to understand it with only one, but whatever helps YOU understand those things better
Iiii-iiiiiit's.... me!!! *Hooray*
Yes I expect they are quite well respected , so if thats the case do you think them leaving a review of a game that is flawed to such an obvious extent and written with practically zero journalistic integrity , up on their site , dont you think the least they could have done was take the review down pending further investigation ?.
After all even people that dont care for game are mostly saying that Zitron's review was appalling and no way could an mmo have a fair review after only a few hours actually playing it.
Maybe your right they probably did'nt care about Darkfall and its fanbase , although maybe they should care about their own integrity as gaming site.
Anyway despite that what do you think , will a re- review be fair ?
Keen disagrees with your assessment.
www.keenandgraev.com/
In fact he went so far as to say this about the review...
"...the gist of what he is saying is true."
Reading the comments on EuroGamer's site it also seems to be about 50/50 about the review. So, it would appear that your previous claims would be a bit of hyperbole. Kind of like the review was using.
Well how's this then " In my "opinion" a Journalist/ Magazine/Critic etc would all " In my Opinion" come under the same morals ethics code of conduct etc ...
there how's that for you and " In my Opinion" that should make you sleep better .
Though I would just like to add this all is just "My Opinion "
Happy now ?
Well i wasn't gonna lose sleep over something like this but yes it's much more accurate this way. Even though IMO you shouldn't have put the "In my opinion" line 3 times in there since the average person would be contempt and being perfectly to understand it with only one, but whatever helps YOU understand those things better
Why thank you for pointing that out ot me ......
If he gives it 10/10 it will be deemed fair and unbiased.
If he gives it 1/10 it will be deemed unfair and biased.
Isn't it obvious?
Ahh yes but you forgot the middle ground or grey areas .. what if if gives it "6 or 7" or "4 or 5 "or even" 6.5" or "4.5 ? "
wont be so obvious then would it ?
Fair to whom? It's all about how individuals feel about the game. If the review isn't on par with what they say, it is dead wrong.
Z
http://www.TheIronZ.com
Nonsense, I read his review and I have played the game and it is spot on. He brought up specific issues with the game such as outdated gfx, the whole sheating/unsheating/activating mess, getting in and out of interact mode and so on.
So it is far from the OMGTHISSUX. I feel that is more like how the typical Darkfall fan responded to his review. The typical: "He sucks, go back to WoW you carebear" nonsense.
My gaming blog
He seems like a good reviewer but DEFINATELY a casual MMO fan. I mean I loved GW and love DF also but they are very different game types. He'll either love it or hate it, but hopefully at least appreciate it is at least TRYING to do something new.
My blog:
Nonsense, I read his review and I have played the game and it is spot on. He brought up specific issues with the game such as outdated gfx, the whole sheating/unsheating/activating mess, getting in and out of interact mode and so on.
So it is far from the OMGTHISSUX. I feel that is more like how the typical Darkfall fan responded to his review. The typical: "He sucks, go back to WoW you carebear" nonsense.
You obviously haven't played as nearly everything he mentioned in regards to usability and the UI were outright blatant lies, and it's obvious he didn't even play from the fact that any ss with his hotbar in it had NO SLOTS BOUND, meaning he was opening his pack and doubleclicking shit to equip it.
Nonsense, I read his review and I have played the game and it is spot on. He brought up specific issues with the game such as outdated gfx, the whole sheating/unsheating/activating mess, getting in and out of interact mode and so on.
So it is far from the OMGTHISSUX. I feel that is more like how the typical Darkfall fan responded to his review. The typical: "He sucks, go back to WoW you carebear" nonsense.
You obviously haven't played as nearly everything he mentioned in regards to usability and the UI were outright blatant lies, and it's obvious he didn't even play from the fact that any ss with his hotbar in it had NO SLOTS BOUND, meaning he was opening his pack and doubleclicking shit to equip it.
a little devils advocate here, and not that i plan on getting in any sort of discussion about it, what if the screen shots that were posted included no hotkeys bound because he wanted clean images? Many review sites turn off WoW's UI. Does that mean they are playing WoW with out any UI usage? Yup, must be that.
Now, did he use the keys? who knows, i'd have to imagine he did and took shots for cleanliness.
Nonsense, I read his review and I have played the game and it is spot on. He brought up specific issues with the game such as outdated gfx, the whole sheating/unsheating/activating mess, getting in and out of interact mode and so on.
So it is far from the OMGTHISSUX. I feel that is more like how the typical Darkfall fan responded to his review. The typical: "He sucks, go back to WoW you carebear" nonsense.
You obviously haven't played as nearly everything he mentioned in regards to usability and the UI were outright blatant lies, and it's obvious he didn't even play from the fact that any ss with his hotbar in it had NO SLOTS BOUND, meaning he was opening his pack and doubleclicking shit to equip it.
a little devils advocate here, and not that i plan on getting in any sort of discussion about it, what if the screen shots that were posted included no hotkeys bound because he wanted clean images? Many review sites turn off WoW's UI. Does that mean they are playing WoW with out any UI usage? Yup, must be that.
Now, did he use the keys? who knows, i'd have to imagine he did and took shots for cleanliness.
Everyone who has actually played the game knows it takes .5seconds if that to switch weapons, 1-2seconds to go through unsheathing animation at most and that's with a polearm. He claims the UI randomly turns off and you can't manually do it, even though it DOES NOT randomly turn off and you CAN manually do it via ALT + H. He obviously has no hand eye coordination as he claimed that hitting people was based on pure luck even though you get a crosshair on your screen for where your swings will be centered or archery/magic will be aimed. I'd have to imagine that for once Tasos IS NOT lying, and this guy made up his entire review from forumtroll postings, as in one of the screenshots you can even see him saying in chat HOW DO I PLAY or something similar.
He didn't even try, he merely said oh, full loot ffa pvp game, fuck that shit it must suck and made up a shitton of lies about it.
Ahh yes but you forgot the middle ground or grey areas .. what if if gives it "6 or 7" or "4 or 5 "or even" 6.5" or "4.5 ? "
wont be so obvious then would it ?
If he gave MxO a 5/10 after launch, I think Tasos batter brace himself for the new review. He may be sorry he made such a demand. The score may be a *bit* higher, but my guess is it will still be pretty insulting to his ego. Plus this review will be by a guy that is being vaulted to the highest degree of honestly and integrity by the people on the boards.
I think this is gonna backfire on Darkfall, and I am gonna laugh...hard...
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
Ahh yes but you forgot the middle ground or grey areas .. what if if gives it "6 or 7" or "4 or 5 "or even" 6.5" or "4.5 ? "
wont be so obvious then would it ?
If he gave MxO a 5/10 after launch, I think Tasos batter brace himself for the new review. He may be sorry he made such a demand. The score may be a *bit* higher, but my guess is it will still be pretty insulting to his ego. Plus this review will be by a guy that is being vaulted to the highest degree of honestly and integrity by the people on the boards.
I think this is gonna backfire on Darkfall, and I am gonna laugh...hard...
It's not a polished game, I wouldn't expect higher than a 5 or a 6, especially due to it's nature as a niche game. In the category of MMO that it's in, I'd give it an overall 6 or 7, which is only not a 8 or 9 due to the bugs that are still being worked out and balancing issues still being worked on post release. Give it 3-4months and it'll be a 7 or 8 in it's own are of MMO types, but overall could never break a 6 with the mainstream crowd.
well if he gave the crapfest that is matrix online a 5 out of 10 I don't think you can really take anything his says seriously.
Ahh yes but you forgot the middle ground or grey areas .. what if if gives it "6 or 7" or "4 or 5 "or even" 6.5" or "4.5 ? "
wont be so obvious then would it ?
If he gave MxO a 5/10 after launch, I think Tasos batter brace himself for the new review. He may be sorry he made such a demand. The score may be a *bit* higher, but my guess is it will still be pretty insulting to his ego. Plus this review will be by a guy that is being vaulted to the highest degree of honestly and integrity by the people on the boards.
I think this is gonna backfire on Darkfall, and I am gonna laugh...hard...
Well as I said in my OP I checked out Kieron Gillens other Mmo reviews on Eurogamer and read them all , I have played all the games he reviewed including the Matrix Online , I do think he's a very honest reviewer although as some have pointed "maybe " sometimes a little harsher than others, but thats fine for people that use reviews as a guide to buy or sub to game or not, because it seems he tells it like it is without really any frills.
As for the Matrix Online review I perhaps would have given maybe 1 point higher because it tried to be different and was quite fun although as he stated the parts did'nt quite work together as a whole.
I am playing Darkfall as we speak and as someone relativley new to PVP, I have to say I am really enjoying it and I am enjoying it far more than I did the Matrix Online ... yes it has issues and there are a heap of changes that need to be made for it to settle down and become successful.
So I for one ( and its just my opinion) would quite probably expect Keiron Gillen not to give Darkfall a high score and I would predict it will be around the middle point , however if he gives it any lower tha the Matrix Online I think it would make me a little suspicious because without a shadow of a doubt its much better than the Matrix Online was and I'm convinced alot of people who have played both games would agree.
As for Tasos having to Brace Himself ... well the Movie Perfect Storm comes to mind for me.
I cant wait for the new review because I find all this quite fascinating !
Why would he need, as you say, journalistic integrity? He's a critic, not a journalist. Critics are barely writers.
I'm sorry but I disagree, Eurogamer certainly aims at a mass audience dont you think ?.
jour·nal·ist
Pronunciation: -n?-list
Function: noun
Date: 1693
1 a: a person engaged in journalism ; especially : a writer or editor for a news medium b: a writer who aims at a mass audience.
*sigh*
crit·ic
Pronunciation:
?kri-tik
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin criticus, from Greek kritikos, from kritikos able to discern or judge, from krinein
Date: 1588
1 a: one who expresses a reasoned opinion on any matter especially involving a judgment of its value, truth, righteousness, beauty, or technique b: one who engages often professionally in the analysis, evaluation, or appreciation of works of art or artistic performances
2: one given to harsh or captious judgment.
See what's highlighted in RED. Journalists who do those things ultimately LOSE THEIR CREDIBILITY and usually THEIR JOBS.
And for additional reference...in RED again.
jour·nal·ism
Pronunciation: ?j?r-n?-?li-z?m
Function: noun
Date: 1828
1 a: the collection and editing of news for presentation through the media b: the public press c: an academic study concerned with the collection and editing of news or the management of a news medium2 a: writing designed for publication in a newspaper or magazine b: writing characterized by a direct presentation of facts or description of events without an attempt at interpretation c: writing designed to appeal to current popular taste or public interest
Journalists and Critics are polar opposites of each other in what they communicate.
EDIT: spelling error.
Actually considering the increased traffic boost that EuroGamer got as a result of all the advertising that Tasos did for them... I'd say they were VERY happy with the results. Quite a bit happier than Tasos was with a 2/10 review it would seem anyway.
I would expect them to play up the "Re-Review" as well.
It makes very little personal difference to them what the score is, or even what the words in the review are.
They are a site that generates it's revenue from the number of hits the site gets. All this "drama" did for them was increase their revenue... what incentive would they have to try and make the "drama" go away?
The best outcome for EuroGamer would be a "Re-review" score on one end of the spectrum or the other. So, a 1-2, or a 9-10. All of the scores in the middle will have varying degrees of less impact. The absolute worst from them would be scores in the 5-6 range.
Regardless of how the next score comes out... there are a lot more people that know of EuroGamer now than did before Tasos' rant.
Hmmmm ....... some valid points as usual Xzyax. I had honestly never heard of Eurogamer or Ed Zitron prior to the review so someone apparently did their job. Perhaps it was Tasos.
You mention the next review potentially being on one end of the spectrum or the other. With that logic don't you think it would actually be more advantageous for Eurogamer to give another 1-2. I'm sure Tasos would comment on an excessively high (9-10) score, but there is nothing like a dev showing his ass. Another excessively low one, lol, would certainly bring out his best.
~Hairysun~
http://www.straightdope.com/