Then why are you interested in this game? Just because it has the title of star wars? Have you never played KOTOR? Its a fantastic game. One of the absolute best. And yet, thats exactly what you are in, a cage. You are led around by the nose. And yet it doesn't feel like it.
Take a chill pill. You will not get player cities and good riddance. Those things destroyed the SWG landscape. Tatooine is NOT supposed to be nothing but urban sprawl, sorry.
I have no objection to them creating a zoning apartment building in order to keep the landscape clean.
If you want SWG, then go play SWG. This isn't the game you are looking for.
Well said. If they want player housing then they can go play SWG. It's still there and has most of what they are bitching about.
Please learn some manners. Just because you are super-duper-excited about a new Starsy--warsy game is no excuse for acting like a pissy little runt, really.
Simply because people are asking for a feature with which you disagree does not mean they are 'bitching'.
And I will remind you that unless you work for Bioware, which from your attitude and expressions I would suggest is laughably unlikely, you know only what Bioware has told you about this game. Therefore, I recommend you stop pontificating about this game and what is or isn't in it because you don't have one more clue than the rest of us. Thanks.
Originally posted by Moirae I never said player housing, I said housing where they can create player cities and so destroy the landscape. EQ2 has zoning housing so it doesn't ruin the landscape. LOTRO has housing zones that you zone into where a play can place their house and so have their own yard as well as their own house that you get to by zoning into the AREA and so you have neighbors. Players should not be able to create player cities. There is no reason that we can do something like zone into different instances of an apartment building or just plain different rooms. Its better that way.
Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.
I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.
The only ones who think the rigid class and level systems is stagnating MMOs are the sandbox forum crusaders on this site which i have a feeling is a minority.
I think you'd be surprised at how many of us do actually crave a new age quality sandbox style game.
I am one of those and I will wait as long as it takes because when "that" game finally emerges I will be home
Originally posted by Moirae I never said player housing, I said housing where they can create player cities and so destroy the landscape. EQ2 has zoning housing so it doesn't ruin the landscape. LOTRO has housing zones that you zone into where a play can place their house and so have their own yard as well as their own house that you get to by zoning into the AREA and so you have neighbors. Players should not be able to create player cities. There is no reason that we can do something like zone into different instances of an apartment building or just plain different rooms. Its better that way.
Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.
I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.
And I will never understand people who play MMO's and think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.See, I too can hyperbole.
An instanced building would do much to reduce the lag that happens when you have a bunch of people in one area with all their junk. LAst I heard, SWG STILL has a problem with urban sprawl and it still has problems with lag. Been that way ever since they allowed player housing. And if you like interaction then you should love the fact that he is proposing designated areas for people to live in. I see much more room for interaction in an apartment building than in a house plopped down in the middle of nowhere.
Originally posted by Moirae I never said player housing, I said housing where they can create player cities and so destroy the landscape. EQ2 has zoning housing so it doesn't ruin the landscape. LOTRO has housing zones that you zone into where a play can place their house and so have their own yard as well as their own house that you get to by zoning into the AREA and so you have neighbors. Players should not be able to create player cities. There is no reason that we can do something like zone into different instances of an apartment building or just plain different rooms. Its better that way.
Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.
I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.
And I will never understand people who play MMO's and think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.See, I too can hyperbole.
An instanced building would do much to reduce the lag that happens when you have a bunch of people in one area with all their junk. LAst I heard, SWG STILL has a problem with urban sprawl and it still has problems with lag. Been that way ever since they allowed player housing. And if you like interaction then you should love the fact that he is proposing designated areas for people to live in. I see much more room for interaction in an apartment building than in a house plopped down in the middle of nowhere.
Most people complaining about housing are doing so based on extreme examples without even considering the possibility that there is a middleground anywhere.
SWG urban sprawl was out of control for sure, but that was the design of the game. Almost limitless freedom to develop the world. Even with the massive amounts of player structures on the landscape, it was very interesting to go to player run areas. There was a sense of realism going to someones house in the middle of a planet. Players could interact without the entire area of housing. No one was forced to do that, but it was available.
Instanced apartments are almost the complete opposite of the extreme (aside from no housing). Instanced apartments really only provide private space for players to hide from the game world. Zoning is not a very immersive game mechanic and neither is a group of people all living behind the same door of inn and having to scroll through a list of names to find someones "apartment". I also feel that the whole instanced apartment detracts from a healthy community. It is just private space for players to hide in. There is no feeling of your neighborhood and no reason to interact with the person who lives behind the same instanced door as you. It is just one more area for players to remove themselves from the game world.
Somewhere in between those two examples is a decent middle ground that would most likely please both sides. Be it something like vanguard with predefined areas in the actual world where players can build houses which leaves the rest of the world untouched. Maybe it is something like lotro (I'm not familiar at all with this so correct me if I am wrong), instanced areas with housing plots. Maybe a combination of several things or something new. As long as it addresses the few issues that housing can bring in, then it will be a benefit to the game.
No one is asking that players should be forced to interact with the community, but at the same time it begs the question of why play an mmo if all you want to do is be alone. The only thing that seperates mmos from single players games is community and group activities.
Originally posted by Moirae I never said player housing, I said housing where they can create player cities and so destroy the landscape. EQ2 has zoning housing so it doesn't ruin the landscape. LOTRO has housing zones that you zone into where a play can place their house and so have their own yard as well as their own house that you get to by zoning into the AREA and so you have neighbors. Players should not be able to create player cities. There is no reason that we can do something like zone into different instances of an apartment building or just plain different rooms. Its better that way.
Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.
I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.
And I will never understand people who play MMO's and think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.See, I too can hyperbole.
An instanced building would do much to reduce the lag that happens when you have a bunch of people in one area with all their junk. LAst I heard, SWG STILL has a problem with urban sprawl and it still has problems with lag. Been that way ever since they allowed player housing. And if you like interaction then you should love the fact that he is proposing designated areas for people to live in. I see much more room for interaction in an apartment building than in a house plopped down in the middle of nowhere.
Most people complaining about housing are doing so based on extreme examples without even considering the possibility that there is a middleground anywhere.
SWG urban sprawl was out of control for sure, but that was the design of the game. Almost limitless freedom to develop the world. Even with the massive amounts of player structures on the landscape, it was very interesting to go to player run areas. There was a sense of realism going to someones house in the middle of a planet. Players could interact without the entire area of housing. No one was forced to do that, but it was available.
Instanced apartments are almost the complete opposite of the extreme (aside from no housing). Instanced apartments really only provide private space for players to hide from the game world. Zoning is not a very immersive game mechanic and neither is a group of people all living behind the same door of inn and having to scroll through a list of names to find someones "apartment". I also feel that the whole instanced apartment detracts from a healthy community. It is just private space for players to hide in. There is no feeling of your neighborhood and no reason to interact with the person who lives behind the same instanced door as you. It is just one more area for players to remove themselves from the game world.
Somewhere in between those two examples is a decent middle ground that would most likely please both sides. Be it something like vanguard with predefined areas in the actual world where players can build houses which leaves the rest of the world untouched. Maybe it is something like lotro (I'm not familiar at all with this so correct me if I am wrong), instanced areas with housing plots. Maybe a combination of several things or something new. As long as it addresses the few issues that housing can bring in, then it will be a benefit to the game.
No one is asking that players should be forced to interact with the community, but at the same time it begs the question of why play an mmo if all you want to do is be alone. The only thing that seperates mmos from single players games is community and group activities.
What happend to SWG was 80% of the playerbase left the game and gave their accounts to ingame friends. Or dumping houses / memorials all over the place as a quiet protest to what happend to the game. The ingame economics was broken cuz SOE removed decay and players bank account just grew and grew. Later active accounts where added another character slot WITH 10 housing slots too and houses where planted in any vacant space on habitable planets.
Yet again /point at SOE for %¤%&/-ing up the game.
As for the MMO / MMORPG in which rulebook does it say players has to run around like mindless freak killing 24/7 and not sink into the fine art of crafting if a MMO contains such thing (like SWG preCU).
Many SWG elders can remember Jolen the entertainer in the back of CNET cantina. Enjoying her work as just that.
Players paying their monthly fee can spend their time in whatever suit them. The complicity of classes and proffessions mixed with ingame communication, haggle, trade, flaming, h8, love, tactics etc is what a gaming community is all about.
And I will never understand people who play MMO's and think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.
Who says you are forced to interact? People are asking for choices and by removing player housing you are removing choice. You can choose to interact with the community or go about playing your single player game with a chat room, either way you have a choice.
SWG had problems with lag and it has housing, the two must be linked! Oh wait...EVE has problems with lag and it doesn't have housing. Ever been to the banks/AH in WoW? No player housing but it's laggy as hell lol.
And I will never understand people who play MMO's and think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.
Who says you are forced to interact? People are asking for choices and by removing player housing you are removing choice. You can choose to interact with the community or go about playing your single player game with a chat room, either way you have a choice.
SWG had problems with lag and it has housing, the two must be linked! Oh wait...EVE has problems with lag and it doesn't have housing. Ever been to the banks/AH in WoW? No player housing but it's laggy as hell lol.
Okay, don't parse my statment and make it into something it was not . Right after that was " See, I can hyperbole too." That was in reply to the stupid comment that being against player housing equals being against player interaction. I just answered a hyperbole with a hyperbole.
In all my time playing SWG, I rarely ran into a person inside one of those structures. Usually that person was either offline or off doing something else in game. Most player interaction was done at the starports where people gathered to grind or inside the cantinas. No one here is asking for those not to be put in game so enough with the drama queen antics. Most people just don't like player housing because it is nothing more than a useless time sink and lag creator. It doesn't do diddly squat for improving player interaction because most players aren't spending time there.
Most people complaining about housing are doing so based on extreme examples without even considering the possibility that there is a middleground anywhere. SWG urban sprawl was out of control for sure, but that was the design of the game. Almost limitless freedom to develop the world. Even with the massive amounts of player structures on the landscape, it was very interesting to go to player run areas. There was a sense of realism going to someones house in the middle of a planet. Players could interact without the entire area of housing. No one was forced to do that, but it was available. Instanced apartments are almost the complete opposite of the extreme (aside from no housing). Instanced apartments really only provide private space for players to hide from the game world. Zoning is not a very immersive game mechanic and neither is a group of people all living behind the same door of inn and having to scroll through a list of names to find someones "apartment". I also feel that the whole instanced apartment detracts from a healthy community. It is just private space for players to hide in. There is no feeling of your neighborhood and no reason to interact with the person who lives behind the same instanced door as you. It is just one more area for players to remove themselves from the game world.
Somewhere in between those two examples is a decent middle ground that would most likely please both sides. Be it something like vanguard with predefined areas in the actual world where players can build houses which leaves the rest of the world untouched. Maybe it is something like lotro (I'm not familiar at all with this so correct me if I am wrong), instanced areas with housing plots. Maybe a combination of several things or something new. As long as it addresses the few issues that housing can bring in, then it will be a benefit to the game.
No one is asking that players should be forced to interact with the community, but at the same time it begs the question of why play an mmo if all you want to do is be alone. The only thing that seperates mmos from single players games is community and group activities.
By all means point to the people who are saying they want to be left alone and never interact with other people. I'm waiting. ....
Okay, don't parse my statment and make it into something it was not . Right after that was " See, I can hyperbole too." That was in reply to the stupid comment that being against player housing equals being against player interaction. I just answered a hyperbole with a hyperbole. In all my time playing SWG, I rarely ran into a person inside one of those structures. Usually that person was either offline or off doing something else in game. Most player interaction was done at the starports where people gathered to grind or inside the cantinas. No one here is asking for those not to be put in game so enough with the drama queen antics. Most people just don't like player housing because it is nothing more than a useless time sink and lag creator. It doesn't do diddly squat for improving player interaction because most players aren't spending time there.
So you don't like player housing and you see it as a useless time sink. Thats your opinion and I respect that, but it doesn't mean the rest of us feel the same way. Obviously a large population of the MMO community enjoyed it enough to build houses and cities on every planet in SWG.
It seems like people need to come to grips with reality in that this game is NOT going to provide the same sort of player housing experience seen in SWG.
I don't care if lots of you loved it. No amount of whining is going to drastically alter Bioware's intentions at this point... nor should it. As much as I loved both UO and SWG, I did not enjoy the sprawl of player housing that virtually covered almost every open space on the game world. That is NOT immersive and it detracts heavily from my enjoyment of the game... I know there are many people who feel the same.
It seems like a lot of you SWG lovers are forgetting that it is still running. If you really want your SWG-style player housing and your crafting, please go back and play that game. TOR is NOT going to be the game you want it to be.
Originally posted by ktanner3 By all means point to the people who are saying they want to be left alone and never interact with other people. I'm waiting. ....
They are right over there, but you can't see them behind the crowd of people who think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but lets not take things to the extreme ok?
Originally posted by ktanner3 By all means point to the people who are saying they want to be left alone and never interact with other people. I'm waiting. ....
They are right over there, but you can't see them behind the crowd of people who think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but lets not take things to the extreme ok?
I answered an extreme with an extreme. Is that okay with you?
It seems like people need to come to grips with reality in that this game is NOT going to provide the same sort of player housing experience seen in SWG. I don't care if lots of you loved it. No amount of whining is going to drastically alter Bioware's intentions at this point... nor should it. As much as I loved both UO and SWG, I did not enjoy the sprawl of player housing that virtually covered almost every open space on the game world. That is NOT immersive and it detracts heavily from my enjoyment of the game... I know there are many people who feel the same. It seems like a lot of you SWG lovers are forgetting that it is still running. If you really want your SWG-style player housing and your crafting, please go back and play that game. TOR is NOT going to be the game you want it to be.
I said the exact thing a page or so ago and some of them got their knickers in a twist. TOR isn't going to be anything like SWG.Anyone with half the common sense of a cow is able to come to that conclusion.
Originally posted by ktanner3 I said the exact thing a page or so ago and some of them got their knickers in a twist. TOR isn't going to be anything like SWG.Anyone with half the common sense of a cow is able to come to that conclusion.
I'm not sure what you guys are getting so worked up about. TOR can have player housing/cities and not be anything like SWG.You've expressed your reasons for disliking SWG but this is a new game with different devs who will hopefully learn from other devs mistakes and create something we all enjoy.
Originally posted by ktanner3 I said the exact thing a page or so ago and some of them got their knickers in a twist. TOR isn't going to be anything like SWG.Anyone with half the common sense of a cow is able to come to that conclusion.
I'm not sure what you guys are getting so worked up about. TOR can have player housing/cities and not be anything like SWG.You've expressed your reasons for disliking SWG but this is a new game with different devs who will hopefully learn from other devs mistakes and create something we all enjoy.
Not getting worked up about anything. I just don't understand why some of you folks are asking for things like this when the Devs said specifically that this game would not be a day in the life of Star Wars. It's pretty obvious where the dev was directing that statement and what it meant.
Originally posted by Moirae I never said player housing, I said housing where they can create player cities and so destroy the landscape. EQ2 has zoning housing so it doesn't ruin the landscape. LOTRO has housing zones that you zone into where a play can place their house and so have their own yard as well as their own house that you get to by zoning into the AREA and so you have neighbors. Players should not be able to create player cities. There is no reason that we can do something like zone into different instances of an apartment building or just plain different rooms. Its better that way.
Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.
I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.
Because this isn't that type of game dear. Its not "live in the star wars world", this game actually has a point.
I don't mind associating with other players in a game, but I do mind when that association destroys the landscape to create urban sprawl. Do you remember Tatooine being covered with 50% buildings? Or was it a vast desert landscape with tiny patches of occasional cities.
It was the second one and you know it.
Which then means that you aren't experiencing Star Wars, you're experiencing urban sprawl.
You're either purposely missing the point or you're just plain ignoring me so that you can twist my words to mean something they don't.
Originally posted by ktanner3 Not getting worked up about anything. I just don't understand why some of you folks are asking for things like this when the Devs said specifically that this game would not be a day in the life of Star Wars. It's pretty obvious where the dev was directing that statement and what it meant.
I'm not sure where you got the "day in the life of Star Wars" out of player housing/cities. I must have missed one of your hyperboles.
Originally posted by Moirae You're either purposely missing the point or you're just plain ignoring me so that you can twist my words to mean something they don't.
Either way, knock it off.
The point that this game is still in development, is a long way from being finalized, and most likely changes direction everyday as players and developers discuss it? No one is here asking for SWG2, we are asking for something better and while the game is still in development is the time to ask for it.
Originally posted by Moirae You're either purposely missing the point or you're just plain ignoring me so that you can twist my words to mean something they don't.
Either way, knock it off.
The point that this game is still in development, is a long way from being finalized, and most likely changes direction everyday as players and developers discuss it? No one is here asking for SWG2, we are asking for something better and while the game is still in development is the time to ask for it.
Where are you guys getting this idea that the game is changing direction every day?
This game has been in developement for 3 1/2 years now at least. Do you think they're going to switch major game mechanics, major design choices and major development directions at this stage?
Details, maybe. Fine-tuning, maybe.
Major changes in the direction of the game? I have my doubts.
Originally posted by singsofdeath Where are you guys getting this idea that the game is changing direction every day?
This game has been in developement for 3 1/2 years now at least. Do you think they're going to switch major game mechanics, major design choices and major development directions at this stage?
Details, maybe. Fine-tuning, maybe.
Major changes in the direction of the game? I have my doubts.
I don't think anyone mentioned major changes but if you believe the game is going in the exact same direction today that is was going a year ago you are crazy Most MMO's go thru major changes in the beta stage and we aren't anywhere near that so there is still plenty of time for things to change.
I don't think anyone mentioned major changes but if you believe the game is going in the exact same direction today that is was going a year ago you are crazy Most MMO's go thru major changes in the beta stage and we aren't anywhere near that so there is still plenty of time for things to change.
Of course a game changes. Changes all the time during production and after release. But the closer a game gets to release, the less drastic these changes are usually. And if changes ARE hugely drastic close to release, it usually does not bode well. The closer a game gets to release, the more of a game is "finalized". Sounds logical, right?
Un-Instanced Housing IS a major design choice. Do you think you could create the same kind of areas for a game with un-instanced housing as opposed to a game with instanced or NO housing?
Originally posted by singsofdeath Of course a game changes. Changes all the time during production and after release. But the closer a game gets to release, the less drastic these changes are usually. And if changes ARE hugely drastic close to release, it usually does not bode well. The closer a game gets to release, the more of a game is "finalized". Sounds logical, right?
Un-Instanced Housing IS a major design choice. Do you think you could create the same kind of areas for a game with un-instanced housing as opposed to a game with instanced or NO housing?
I'm not sure how they designed the planets so I have no idea how hard it would or wouldn't be to add honestly.
And I agree the closer they get to release the more finalized it will be. Since they are no where near release, they haven't even announced beta yet, I doubt anything about the game has been finalized.
I really don't see BW adding player cities but I don't see why people should not be allowed to discuss it.
Originally posted by singsofdeath Of course a game changes. Changes all the time during production and after release. But the closer a game gets to release, the less drastic these changes are usually. And if changes ARE hugely drastic close to release, it usually does not bode well. The closer a game gets to release, the more of a game is "finalized". Sounds logical, right?
Un-Instanced Housing IS a major design choice. Do you think you could create the same kind of areas for a game with un-instanced housing as opposed to a game with instanced or NO housing?
I'm not sure how they designed the planets so I have no idea how hard it would or wouldn't be to add honestly.
And I agree the closer they get to release the more finalized it will be. Since they are no where near release, they haven't even announced beta yet, I doubt anything about the game has been finalized.
According to several interviews, the game is already in a playable state. That would put it somewhere in Alpha at least. We know how long they've been working on it. 3 1/2 plus years. We know they are using the HeroEngine, which is specifically designed to cut down on production time of an MMO (almost 50% according to one of the creator of the Engine). We know that an average Triple A title takes between 4-6 years developement time. It is therefor a legitimate theory that the game is MUCH closer to being finished than you believe.
I really don't see BW adding player cities but I don't see why people should not be allowed to discuss it.
There is nothing wrong with discussing anything. I merely pointed out that i think it unlikely that MAJOR design changes will still be made to this game because I think they are much further along in the dev-process than some of you seem to think. Personally, I still believe the game will be released early 2010.
Then again, I think (hope actually) that these things will be made a lot clearer at the E3 where in all likelyhood, they will reveal quite a bit more.
Comments
Well said. If they want player housing then they can go play SWG. It's still there and has most of what they are bitching about.
Please learn some manners. Just because you are super-duper-excited about a new Starsy--warsy game is no excuse for acting like a pissy little runt, really.
Simply because people are asking for a feature with which you disagree does not mean they are 'bitching'.
And I will remind you that unless you work for Bioware, which from your attitude and expressions I would suggest is laughably unlikely, you know only what Bioware has told you about this game. Therefore, I recommend you stop pontificating about this game and what is or isn't in it because you don't have one more clue than the rest of us. Thanks.
/applaud
Wumi - SWG - Bloodfin - Cancelled
Wumi - WoW - Eu-Kazzak - Cancelled
Bulldozer - Aion - Eu-Kahrun - Cancelled
Wumi - Rift - EU-Riptalon - Cancelled
Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.
I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.
I think you'd be surprised at how many of us do actually crave a new age quality sandbox style game.
I am one of those and I will wait as long as it takes because when "that" game finally emerges I will be home
Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.
I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.
And I will never understand people who play MMO's and think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.See, I too can hyperbole.
An instanced building would do much to reduce the lag that happens when you have a bunch of people in one area with all their junk. LAst I heard, SWG STILL has a problem with urban sprawl and it still has problems with lag. Been that way ever since they allowed player housing. And if you like interaction then you should love the fact that he is proposing designated areas for people to live in. I see much more room for interaction in an apartment building than in a house plopped down in the middle of nowhere.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.
I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.
And I will never understand people who play MMO's and think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.See, I too can hyperbole.
An instanced building would do much to reduce the lag that happens when you have a bunch of people in one area with all their junk. LAst I heard, SWG STILL has a problem with urban sprawl and it still has problems with lag. Been that way ever since they allowed player housing. And if you like interaction then you should love the fact that he is proposing designated areas for people to live in. I see much more room for interaction in an apartment building than in a house plopped down in the middle of nowhere.
Most people complaining about housing are doing so based on extreme examples without even considering the possibility that there is a middleground anywhere.
SWG urban sprawl was out of control for sure, but that was the design of the game. Almost limitless freedom to develop the world. Even with the massive amounts of player structures on the landscape, it was very interesting to go to player run areas. There was a sense of realism going to someones house in the middle of a planet. Players could interact without the entire area of housing. No one was forced to do that, but it was available.
Instanced apartments are almost the complete opposite of the extreme (aside from no housing). Instanced apartments really only provide private space for players to hide from the game world. Zoning is not a very immersive game mechanic and neither is a group of people all living behind the same door of inn and having to scroll through a list of names to find someones "apartment". I also feel that the whole instanced apartment detracts from a healthy community. It is just private space for players to hide in. There is no feeling of your neighborhood and no reason to interact with the person who lives behind the same instanced door as you. It is just one more area for players to remove themselves from the game world.
Somewhere in between those two examples is a decent middle ground that would most likely please both sides. Be it something like vanguard with predefined areas in the actual world where players can build houses which leaves the rest of the world untouched. Maybe it is something like lotro (I'm not familiar at all with this so correct me if I am wrong), instanced areas with housing plots. Maybe a combination of several things or something new. As long as it addresses the few issues that housing can bring in, then it will be a benefit to the game.
No one is asking that players should be forced to interact with the community, but at the same time it begs the question of why play an mmo if all you want to do is be alone. The only thing that seperates mmos from single players games is community and group activities.
Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.
I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.
And I will never understand people who play MMO's and think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.See, I too can hyperbole.
An instanced building would do much to reduce the lag that happens when you have a bunch of people in one area with all their junk. LAst I heard, SWG STILL has a problem with urban sprawl and it still has problems with lag. Been that way ever since they allowed player housing. And if you like interaction then you should love the fact that he is proposing designated areas for people to live in. I see much more room for interaction in an apartment building than in a house plopped down in the middle of nowhere.
Most people complaining about housing are doing so based on extreme examples without even considering the possibility that there is a middleground anywhere.
SWG urban sprawl was out of control for sure, but that was the design of the game. Almost limitless freedom to develop the world. Even with the massive amounts of player structures on the landscape, it was very interesting to go to player run areas. There was a sense of realism going to someones house in the middle of a planet. Players could interact without the entire area of housing. No one was forced to do that, but it was available.
Instanced apartments are almost the complete opposite of the extreme (aside from no housing). Instanced apartments really only provide private space for players to hide from the game world. Zoning is not a very immersive game mechanic and neither is a group of people all living behind the same door of inn and having to scroll through a list of names to find someones "apartment". I also feel that the whole instanced apartment detracts from a healthy community. It is just private space for players to hide in. There is no feeling of your neighborhood and no reason to interact with the person who lives behind the same instanced door as you. It is just one more area for players to remove themselves from the game world.
Somewhere in between those two examples is a decent middle ground that would most likely please both sides. Be it something like vanguard with predefined areas in the actual world where players can build houses which leaves the rest of the world untouched. Maybe it is something like lotro (I'm not familiar at all with this so correct me if I am wrong), instanced areas with housing plots. Maybe a combination of several things or something new. As long as it addresses the few issues that housing can bring in, then it will be a benefit to the game.
No one is asking that players should be forced to interact with the community, but at the same time it begs the question of why play an mmo if all you want to do is be alone. The only thing that seperates mmos from single players games is community and group activities.
What happend to SWG was 80% of the playerbase left the game and gave their accounts to ingame friends. Or dumping houses / memorials all over the place as a quiet protest to what happend to the game. The ingame economics was broken cuz SOE removed decay and players bank account just grew and grew. Later active accounts where added another character slot WITH 10 housing slots too and houses where planted in any vacant space on habitable planets.
Yet again /point at SOE for %¤%&/-ing up the game.
As for the MMO / MMORPG in which rulebook does it say players has to run around like mindless freak killing 24/7 and not sink into the fine art of crafting if a MMO contains such thing (like SWG preCU).
Many SWG elders can remember Jolen the entertainer in the back of CNET cantina. Enjoying her work as just that.
Players paying their monthly fee can spend their time in whatever suit them. The complicity of classes and proffessions mixed with ingame communication, haggle, trade, flaming, h8, love, tactics etc is what a gaming community is all about.
If ur not into all that.. go play nintendo!
Wumi - SWG - Bloodfin - Cancelled
Wumi - WoW - Eu-Kazzak - Cancelled
Bulldozer - Aion - Eu-Kahrun - Cancelled
Wumi - Rift - EU-Riptalon - Cancelled
Who says you are forced to interact? People are asking for choices and by removing player housing you are removing choice. You can choose to interact with the community or go about playing your single player game with a chat room, either way you have a choice.
SWG had problems with lag and it has housing, the two must be linked! Oh wait...EVE has problems with lag and it doesn't have housing. Ever been to the banks/AH in WoW? No player housing but it's laggy as hell lol.
Who says you are forced to interact? People are asking for choices and by removing player housing you are removing choice. You can choose to interact with the community or go about playing your single player game with a chat room, either way you have a choice.
SWG had problems with lag and it has housing, the two must be linked! Oh wait...EVE has problems with lag and it doesn't have housing. Ever been to the banks/AH in WoW? No player housing but it's laggy as hell lol.
Okay, don't parse my statment and make it into something it was not . Right after that was " See, I can hyperbole too." That was in reply to the stupid comment that being against player housing equals being against player interaction. I just answered a hyperbole with a hyperbole.
In all my time playing SWG, I rarely ran into a person inside one of those structures. Usually that person was either offline or off doing something else in game. Most player interaction was done at the starports where people gathered to grind or inside the cantinas. No one here is asking for those not to be put in game so enough with the drama queen antics. Most people just don't like player housing because it is nothing more than a useless time sink and lag creator. It doesn't do diddly squat for improving player interaction because most players aren't spending time there.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
By all means point to the people who are saying they want to be left alone and never interact with other people. I'm waiting. ....
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
So you don't like player housing and you see it as a useless time sink. Thats your opinion and I respect that, but it doesn't mean the rest of us feel the same way. Obviously a large population of the MMO community enjoyed it enough to build houses and cities on every planet in SWG.
It seems like people need to come to grips with reality in that this game is NOT going to provide the same sort of player housing experience seen in SWG.
I don't care if lots of you loved it. No amount of whining is going to drastically alter Bioware's intentions at this point... nor should it. As much as I loved both UO and SWG, I did not enjoy the sprawl of player housing that virtually covered almost every open space on the game world. That is NOT immersive and it detracts heavily from my enjoyment of the game... I know there are many people who feel the same.
It seems like a lot of you SWG lovers are forgetting that it is still running. If you really want your SWG-style player housing and your crafting, please go back and play that game. TOR is NOT going to be the game you want it to be.
They are right over there, but you can't see them behind the crowd of people who think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but lets not take things to the extreme ok?
They are right over there, but you can't see them behind the crowd of people who think the whole playerbase should be forced to interact with them.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but lets not take things to the extreme ok?
I answered an extreme with an extreme. Is that okay with you?
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I said the exact thing a page or so ago and some of them got their knickers in a twist. TOR isn't going to be anything like SWG.Anyone with half the common sense of a cow is able to come to that conclusion.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I'm not sure what you guys are getting so worked up about. TOR can have player housing/cities and not be anything like SWG.You've expressed your reasons for disliking SWG but this is a new game with different devs who will hopefully learn from other devs mistakes and create something we all enjoy.
I'm not sure what you guys are getting so worked up about. TOR can have player housing/cities and not be anything like SWG.You've expressed your reasons for disliking SWG but this is a new game with different devs who will hopefully learn from other devs mistakes and create something we all enjoy.
Not getting worked up about anything. I just don't understand why some of you folks are asking for things like this when the Devs said specifically that this game would not be a day in the life of Star Wars. It's pretty obvious where the dev was directing that statement and what it meant.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Did you now?
Many people play MMO's because they want to play in a world that they can have an impact on and having in game housing/cities that can be seen by other players is part of that impact. Instancing apartment buildings would just make the game feel more like a single player game with a chat room.
I will never understand why so many people play MMO's then complain because they have to see or interact with other people.
Because this isn't that type of game dear. Its not "live in the star wars world", this game actually has a point.
I don't mind associating with other players in a game, but I do mind when that association destroys the landscape to create urban sprawl. Do you remember Tatooine being covered with 50% buildings? Or was it a vast desert landscape with tiny patches of occasional cities.
It was the second one and you know it.
Which then means that you aren't experiencing Star Wars, you're experiencing urban sprawl.
You're either purposely missing the point or you're just plain ignoring me so that you can twist my words to mean something they don't.
Either way, knock it off.
I'm not sure where you got the "day in the life of Star Wars" out of player housing/cities. I must have missed one of your hyperboles.
The point that this game is still in development, is a long way from being finalized, and most likely changes direction everyday as players and developers discuss it? No one is here asking for SWG2, we are asking for something better and while the game is still in development is the time to ask for it.
The point that this game is still in development, is a long way from being finalized, and most likely changes direction everyday as players and developers discuss it? No one is here asking for SWG2, we are asking for something better and while the game is still in development is the time to ask for it.
Where are you guys getting this idea that the game is changing direction every day?
This game has been in developement for 3 1/2 years now at least. Do you think they're going to switch major game mechanics, major design choices and major development directions at this stage?
Details, maybe. Fine-tuning, maybe.
Major changes in the direction of the game? I have my doubts.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I don't think anyone mentioned major changes but if you believe the game is going in the exact same direction today that is was going a year ago you are crazy
Most MMO's go thru major changes in the beta stage and we aren't anywhere near that so there is still plenty of time for things to change.
Of course a game changes. Changes all the time during production and after release. But the closer a game gets to release, the less drastic these changes are usually. And if changes ARE hugely drastic close to release, it usually does not bode well. The closer a game gets to release, the more of a game is "finalized". Sounds logical, right?
Un-Instanced Housing IS a major design choice. Do you think you could create the same kind of areas for a game with un-instanced housing as opposed to a game with instanced or NO housing?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
I'm not sure how they designed the planets so I have no idea how hard it would or wouldn't be to add honestly.
And I agree the closer they get to release the more finalized it will be. Since they are no where near release, they haven't even announced beta yet, I doubt anything about the game has been finalized.
I really don't see BW adding player cities but I don't see why people should not be allowed to discuss it.
I'm not sure how they designed the planets so I have no idea how hard it would or wouldn't be to add honestly.
And I agree the closer they get to release the more finalized it will be. Since they are no where near release, they haven't even announced beta yet, I doubt anything about the game has been finalized.
According to several interviews, the game is already in a playable state. That would put it somewhere in Alpha at least. We know how long they've been working on it. 3 1/2 plus years. We know they are using the HeroEngine, which is specifically designed to cut down on production time of an MMO (almost 50% according to one of the creator of the Engine). We know that an average Triple A title takes between 4-6 years developement time. It is therefor a legitimate theory that the game is MUCH closer to being finished than you believe.
I really don't see BW adding player cities but I don't see why people should not be allowed to discuss it.
There is nothing wrong with discussing anything. I merely pointed out that i think it unlikely that MAJOR design changes will still be made to this game because I think they are much further along in the dev-process than some of you seem to think. Personally, I still believe the game will be released early 2010.
Then again, I think (hope actually) that these things will be made a lot clearer at the E3 where in all likelyhood, they will reveal quite a bit more.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7