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Games with perma death
Jaskip
Member Posts: 31
Are there currently any mmo's with perma death in them?
Comments
no because its a stupid feature for persistant online worlds. Single player games should only have it if they have a decent save system in (and remind the players to save often) or checkpoints.
Bottom line: It doesnt work without saves/checkpoints and there is no way that i am playing an MMO with those in it.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
All of them. So long as they have a "DELETE" button on the character selection screen.
You're welcome!
QFT
I think Dofus has it or had it planned
Besides that I guess Neverwinter nights has plenty of of roleplaying PD servers
Closest thing you have to permanent death in an mmo is D2 Hardcore mode.
Well said sir.
In all seriousness this guys got it.
Instead of asking for this feature maybe you should think about the consequences about perma death from a developers standpoint. In Diablo II's case it was not a big deal as it is really not a persistant world. In a MMO though, think of what happens when the player has a bad connection and dies because of it? Pretty common in today's world. Think of the nightmare of servicing all the GM requests that would come from just one major hiccup in a server connection, not uncommon either.
Developers aren't going to code something that is going to fill up there GM queues. Perma death would be the grand daddy of them all in this matter.
You guys are all being pretty narrow-minded.
"It's impossible to sail to China by going West! You'll fall off the edge of the world!"
"Actually, you're just an idiot who thinks that just because something hasn't been done yet, it must be impossible."
Shaiya in hardcore mode has permadeath
Hellgate:London had it,and its expected that when (if) the new owners release it again, it will keep that feature
Either that or this is one of the many beat to death topics for both players and developers.
The thread never changes. Someone suggests permadeath and then people start suggesting ways to make permadeath so that players will find it acceptable. Every single idea people suggest move it farther and farther from permadeath and more into a 'transition' of some sort. Why? Because players consider MMOs an investment and they don't want to lose what they have invested time and money into.
That's the entire thread (this one, every one before it and everyone after it) in a nutshell.
Much more progress would be made on the topic if people gave up the idea of 'permadeath' and just looked for interesting and engaging ways to create a transition or transformation feature since every thread on the topic has shown extreme support for such a design.
Actually, it may introduce some interesting design concepts because most threads on transition/transformation are tackled from the angleof "sub-classing" and usually end up as just different ways to give a massive jump in power to a character.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I can think of one form of permadeath that a lot of players would probably find acceptable: permanent in-game recognition.
Fame is the reward most MMO players want. So some kind of in-game recognition (statues in public places, new spells named after them, new class of ship named after them, whatever). The specifics would depend on the game in question, but I can see myself wanting to play an MMO that would give me a permanent impact on the game world merely for making it to a certain point (or accomplishing some task) without dying, while risking permadeath if I fail.
I doubt that calling anyone an idiot is going to advance your cause.
The replies you're getting are trying to communicate the impracticality of an MMO with permadeath. To put permadeath into a game suggests that the entire game be structured such that permanent death of a character is a natural expectation of the players.
For example, consider a game where players spend all their time building up personal achievements, as with a leveling game. After having labored mightily for weeks or months, the player's character is killed. End of achievements. Start over.
There just aren't that many people who enjoy laboring to build something, losing it, then starting over again.
Another example would be a game where players spend all their time building up personal achievements, but when a character dies, a family relative steps in to take over. The original character is dead, but the player's experience continues essentially unchanged.
That is the roleplayer's permadeath.
A last example would be a game designed for permadeath. The game has dozens of servers all running variations of the same game where any given game runs for a couple months. There are story goals in each game, always different. Players get a character at the start of the game, and try to keep it alive to the end. If the character is killed off, the player is out of that game. Find another server that is starting a new game.
That system can work because players know that they will lose everything when the game instance ends, so having the character killed off is expected and normal. Also, a game like that doesn't involve accumulating lots of in-game accomplishments.
Permadeath is a tough sell, but note that there are MMOs that implement permadeath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_death
You guys haven't been paying attention if you think there are no games with Perma Death.
If that's what you're into, go play Shaiya. Hardcore created characters get the most stat points per level up, but if they are not revived within 5 minutes they are permanently destroyed.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I like that idea as well, but it leads to a difficult issue of where to place that cut off between dying with zzero notoriety and being immortalized. If it's too easy, then it's trivialized and not worth the risk ofpermadeath. If it's too hard to reach then most will just see death as loss and failure. Finding that "sweet spot" seems doable but extremely difficult. It's something a hobbyist would be able to try out because they have no money riding on it, but very few developers would probably be willing to risk that experiment.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
You guys are all rude idiots, there is a mmo with perm death, It's called Dofus.
Although if you disconnect at level 200.. well, thats your problem, welcome to Perma death.
Quoted for irony
Dungeons & Dragons Online does not have Permadeath as a feature of the game, but there is a large and active PD community with guilds on every server (in the US, don't know about EU). Each guild has it's own set of rules (some don't allow the Auction House, some don't allow shrines, etc.. We just delete our characters manually when they die.
--
DDO Permadeath guilds
Thinking about this question has sparked my mind.
I doubt you will ever have an mmo w/ permadeath per say, but it wouldn't be too far fetched to for an mmo to implement a zone or battleground so to speak that when you enter, upon your death, you cannot continue in that zone/instance till theres only 1 man left or until a time period is reached. Make it that the zone would have great rewards the further into it you went, but once your dead you cannot reenter until it's reset or completed.
The idea is similiar to a raid style instance but once your dead your dead until it's reset.
Although this is not permanent death, this is a great compromise that could be very interesting. People want to play a permanent death server don't intended to die. It just that the fear of dying can add a very thrilling experience to the game. So instead of a permanent death, trying locked you out of the goodies for a set amount of time might just do the same thing.
Always nice to emphacize your point when disagreeing to call everyone else idiots. Yeah, Dofus can do it because they have virtually little in game support. You die, no matter the circumstances, they don't care. Personally I avoid games where the developer has little or no ingame support, that is just asking for frustration.
Yep, thought along the same lines myself. good to see some folks using their noggin'
only part wrong is assumption there is no PD MMO which is untrue
I'd have to say that this is a brilliant idea. This could definetly work. Sounds quite challenging.
First of all, y'all are a bit behind the times. Permadeath has been done several times now.
To start with, permadeath in ORPG's wasn't an idea invented by sadistic developers or foolish players who wouldn't actually play it. Permadeath was invented by players who actually played it. The first mainstream ORPG with permadeath was Diablo 1. Despite the fact that b.net D1 became a shitty hackfest, the better legit player groups were damn fun to be around. No such thing as ladder or ladder resets in D1, and there was only one effective class for legits who wanted to do Hell dif, so we were all sorcs with mostly the same gear. Leveling also started to offer very little return past a point in D1. Once you hit the late 30's, you were 99% as powerful as you could ever be.
We invented our own game modes to pass the time, eventually. Ironman was seriously great fun. Everybody made a brand new character. You could only use what you started with and what you found on the ground. No shops. Even the crappiest magic drops became precious things. You'd try to go as far as you can. If you died, too bad so sad. No respawning, just praying for a player to res you. That was probably among the most fun single-session ORPG play I've had.
That's really the underlying idea you are all failing to grasp. There will never be a pure "permadeath" MMORPG or even ORPG which is AAA quality, not without it being so fundamentally warped that it ceases to be permadeath. No dev studio will put the time into developing a AAA game and add a feature which will cut them off at the knees. There will, however, be "hardcore" game modes and servers. If that fails, there will be voluntary permadeath guilds. There is most definitely a demand for it. Diablo 2 did it. Hellgate did it. Mythos did it. None was a persistent world, granted. That doesn't mean it hasn't been done in a persistent world too, though.
Shaiya did it with its Ultimate server. Dofus did it with its Heroic server. I'm not going to suggest Shaiya. If you can live with Dofus's art style, though, which is probably the only MMORPG which is intentionally "cartoony", then there's a very good game beneath. I have to warn you about Dofus, though. It's not a game which is terribly forgiving. You can forget about running from battle. If you pick the wrong fight, and nobody jumps in to save you, you're screwed if you're playing the hardcore server. You better be damn prepared before you jump in or quickly find some friends who can show you how to play. Dofus does have some excellent features on its Hardcore server, though.
Another option is joining DDO and finding a permadeath guild. There are several very active permadeath players in this site's DDO forums. Just go there and ask them. It's voluntary in DDO, though. Then again, that might be a good thing. You might realize permadeath is simply not for you, at which point you could retire from the guild and play regularly instead of deleting your char.
There's another thing you all fail to realize. There's no magical solution in the rules that needs to be invented. Devs have already come up with, and implemented, rules to soften the blow on hardcore server. The biggest one, which I imagine will be found in all future "Hardcore" implementations in persistent-world MMO's, is XP acceleration, which is mostly done two ways. One is a blanket increase of XP gain. Another is a bit more nuanced. Lets say you reach lvl 50 on a hardcore server and die. Some games would give you a XP multiplier on any future chars until you hit 50 with them.
People who think permadeath is impractical, not fun, or simply the delusional fantasy of a self-described hardcore nutcase are sadly ignorant of the reality, probably because they never tried it themselves. If anything, it was invented as single-session fun by the most casual players.