Let's recap on games which have the "cash shop" payment system: ALL Asian grinders whom no one gives two craps about, unless they are rich and want to "pwn faces" in pvp because they can throw money where skill, effort, work, and all around player abilities are severely lacking. "The Agency" is another future "MMO" with hopes at the cash shop industry for F2P games. Hey look, another sub-par game with massive instancing and an overall appeal to console gamers (they literally are shooting for a console based game, and then porting it over to PC....watch the latest dev interview). The SWG dev team was forced into the "cash shop" trading card game due to how badly SOE+LA screwed the game over, and now rakes in mediocre profits from the trading card game + $15/mo subscriptions (or station passes).
Sorry, but you individuals whom think the RMT market is "The Future" are ignorant. You want to use your Visa's instead of your brains/abilities to PLAY A GAME. If you have to pay for particular items you lack the ability to get on your own, theres no point in even playing the game other than to shove it in someone's face that you have a disposable income (or parents) to throw money at, instead of bullets/arrows/spells/we.
Again so sorry, but those of you whom support (and look forward to) RMT games can have them....all of the ones I've seen so far have either been boycotted into P2P system (such as the new StarWars MMO), or are simply so sub-par with their developement they are doing it for sheer money-raking abilities. I'll be here 5 years from now picking apart your illogical thought patterns with a blender.
-cheers
You seemed to have left alot out of your list.
Most of the others that I left out on purpose don't deserve honorable mentions. The only ones worth speaking about are the ones above. Everything else is either SOE based (money grubbing suits that they are) and more Asian based companies.
I'm sorry Veleran, but no matter how many times the small minority that want RMT based mmo's claim "it's the future"....it won't happen to the extent you wish it to be.
$15/mo is easily chump change, hell it's lunch money to people whom work for a living, or live with their parents. RMT games cost MORE money than non-RMT games. Case and point:
For the same 30day package of goodies from 9 Dragons as a normal P2P subscription would be, it's $21. I used to be in a clan that had members whom paid over $40/mo for special items/potions to stay "Ahead of the pvp curve". The ONLY reason the RMT transaction based MMO system is so popular is BECAUSE of the massive amount of mula it generates BECAUSE IT COSTS MORE TO BE AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT.
Also, I laughed when the author said "the majority of the MMO community thinks otherwise". When the truth be told, they ran a poll on MMOGAMER's forums last year and found over 86% of the community (of those who voted) were AGAINST RMT transaction games.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I don't worry one way or the other about RMT. But for us USA players I see the federal and or state governments figuring out a way that they are going to collect sales taxes on these transactions. This will be a golden oppertunity to test the waters of taxing the internet by hitting gamers first. Perefect scapegoat, who cares if gamers are taxed.
I don't worry one way or the other about RMT. But for us USA players I see the federal and or state governments figuring out a way that they are going to collect sales taxes on these transactions. This will be a golden oppertunity to test the waters of taxing the internet by hitting gamers first. Perefect scapegoat, who cares if gamers are taxed. tinfoil hat removed
Don't worry, the only way to tax the internet through direct transactions like this would be to remove anonimity of the net, which won't EVER happen. Another internet would spring up (guerilla.net lol?) in it's place due to the outrage.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Let's recap on games which have the "cash shop" payment system: ALL Asian grinders whom no one gives two craps about, unless they are rich and want to "pwn faces" in pvp because they can throw money where skill, effort, work, and all around player abilities are severely lacking. "The Agency" is another future "MMO" with hopes at the cash shop industry for F2P games. Hey look, another sub-par game with massive instancing and an overall appeal to console gamers (they literally are shooting for a console based game, and then porting it over to PC....watch the latest dev interview). The SWG dev team was forced into the "cash shop" trading card game due to how badly SOE+LA screwed the game over, and now rakes in mediocre profits from the trading card game + $15/mo subscriptions (or station passes).
Sorry, but you individuals whom think the RMT market is "The Future" are ignorant. You want to use your Visa's instead of your brains/abilities to PLAY A GAME. If you have to pay for particular items you lack the ability to get on your own, theres no point in even playing the game other than to shove it in someone's face that you have a disposable income (or parents) to throw money at, instead of bullets/arrows/spells/we.
Again so sorry, but those of you whom support (and look forward to) RMT games can have them....all of the ones I've seen so far have either been boycotted into P2P system (such as the new StarWars MMO), or are simply so sub-par with their developement they are doing it for sheer money-raking abilities. I'll be here 5 years from now picking apart your illogical thought patterns with a blender.
-cheers
You seemed to have left alot out of your list.
Most of the others that I left out on purpose don't deserve honorable mentions. The only ones worth speaking about are the ones above. Everything else is either SOE based (money grubbing suits that they are) and more Asian based companies.
I'm sorry Veleran, but no matter how many times the small minority that want RMT based mmo's claim "it's the future"....it won't happen to the extent you wish it to be.
$15/mo is easily chump change, hell it's lunch money to people whom work for a living, or live with their parents. RMT games cost MORE money than non-RMT games. Case and point:
For the same 30day package of goodies from 9 Dragons as a normal P2P subscription would be, it's $21. I used to be in a clan that had members whom paid over $40/mo for special items/potions to stay "Ahead of the pvp curve". The ONLY reason the RMT transaction based MMO system is so popular is BECAUSE of the massive amount of mula it generates BECAUSE IT COSTS MORE TO BE AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT.
Also, I laughed when the author said "the majority of the MMO community thinks otherwise". When the truth be told, they ran a poll on MMOGAMER's forums last year and found over 86% of the community (of those who voted) were AGAINST RMT transaction games.
I think you are confusing me with a supporter of RMT...I do not. Far from it...I think it is one of the main scourge of MMOs right now other than incompentent management.
These companies wouldn't be adding RMT if they were not being successful and profiting from it. It is simply marketing psychology...they are targeting impulse shoppers. The RMT companies know all to well how much people are willing to fork over. To stop it the players have to simply control themselves...which many cannot.
I have no issues with RMT as long as the items being sold do not give players an advantage in pvp. The problem I have with the model is that some companies like SOE want to slap a monthly fee on top of that or make "must have" items that must be bought from the item mall. I'm sorry but gamers are not walking atm machines for game developers. I do think it is far from inevitable because gamers find it much easier to pay a month subscription if need be.
I also think its an "either or" situation. You can't have a monthly sub and slap item shops in also.
It's funny to think less then 2 years ago people on this site laughed at the idea of RMT based games becoming mainstream or evolving into a core business model. (for better or worse)
IMHO the F2P model with a premium membership setup will be the wave of the future with western MMO's and will the standard business model in the next few years. (hell, its already happening)
I really hope this isnt the case mate,the thought of a pvp battle with regards to my visa bill does not get me excited.
I do how ever feel you maybe right and that gaming companies will make more money this way,I guess then I will step back and get another hobby.
I guess the good news is I cant see it happening in the next 4 or 5 years,no need to worry atm.
My personal opinion is that it will not help the companies much in the long run. The reason for that is that it will drive people like myself from MMO's. I have no problem playing single player games, and will not participate in RMT. If a game I am playing turns into RMT for items that cause a player to be way better off than just playing the game I will cancel my subscrition and move on. If all MMO's are RMT then I will be saddened and play only single player games. I may or may not be in the minority. I have no problem paying a subscrition, and it is fair because these games exist on a cash inflow, however RMT which gives unfair advantages to those who have more money than me will never be an option I will choose.
Basically, it seems like a matter of free enterprise founded on exchanging time for money and vice versa.
A lot of people have the romantic image of people in chinese sweat-shops grinding gold to feed their families. But this is not the only source of ingame currency and items. A whole underground web-market full of criminals evolved around stealing and reselling virtual assets.
The reasons are obvious: If you manage to get credit-card numbers out of your trojan compromised victims it is very complicated to make profit out of them, because financial transactions are well documented and monitored. Not everyone has a bank account on the caymans or a post office box in Nigeria to launder money. But if you plunder your victims account and sell them in item/gold-shops, nobody will care. Every police-station will question your sanity if you want to report the theft of your epic mount and your whole ingame wealth, no matter how many thousand dollars it was worth.
The Virus Writers take care of implementing Web-based and conventional Trojans, and use evasion methods to create covert Trojans, and then they sell the malware and evasion service.
Website Masters/Crackers betray their customers or crack unsafe websites, and sell the visitor traffic of their own or harvested websites. Envelope Stealers construct a Web-based Trojan network by hosting the bought Web-based and conventional Trojans on compromised computers, and redirect the website visitors to their Web-based Trojans.
When the Web-based Trojan network is ready, the victims who visit the malicious websites will be redirected to and exploited by the Web-based Trojans, and infected with further conventional Trojans. These Trojans then steal envelopes and virtual assets from the victim’s machine.
So buying virtual assets from non-official sources on the one hand and getting angry when you have to wipe your OS and change all your passwords because you catched a trojan while surfing your favorite torrent sites on the other hand is a double standard.
That does not mean, I have problems with every form of RMT.
Positive example: EVE-Online
A player wants to purchase ingame currency. So he buys a gametime card from CCP and converts it into PLEXes. 1 PLEX = 30 days of gametime. A poor student wants to extend his EVE account. So he grinds some missions and buys the PLEX out of the market.
It's a win-win-win situation:
1. The player that does not want to grind gets his ingame currency, safe and riskfree.
2. The poor student can play Eve for free.
3. CCP has made money by selling a game-time card and made the item-sellers life a bit more worse.
But the main reason why people don't have a real problem with RMT in Eve:
Eve has a full-loot system. If you spend crazy amounts of real money for your equipment, you have a gigantic sign with "primary target" above your head. Epic equipment is not the neccesarily an "I win"-reason in Eve, because you risk it every time you undock.
Negative Examples:
All theese "pay to not suck"-games. A main aspect of games is fairness, no matter if it is a simple board game or the olympic games. Would you take part in a sports competition, where the person wins who spent most money on the referees?
In games with full-loot systems, RMT balances itself. But it is hard to balance RMT for most other MMOs in such a way that it is not considered as unfair by the majority of the players.
I'm not against RMT as long as its done right (items are mostly fluff and all funds collected go to making more content).
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
RMT can be good or bad, it all depends on imlementation really.
Take City of Heroes, standard $15 a month, gets you th costume creator, 8 character slots, 14 issues of content.
But some people jsut want more. So with RTM they let you buy a server move, a chsracter rename, or extra character slots. Theirs also some fluf items like The Wedding Pack (emotes and wedding costumes) The Cyborg pack (emotes, costume pieces, and a power that does decent dammange but kills you), the Mage Pack (emote, costume, minor buff power) and Mac Pack (emote, costume, port to mission power on a long timer)
As long as its all cosmetic, emotes, character slots, server switch, character name change, and doesn't give distinct player advantages, then I am fine with anything. If more money = more skills = better player, I would immediately quit any game of that nature.
Let's recap on games which have the "cash shop" payment system: ALL Asian grinders whom no one gives two craps about, unless they are rich and want to "pwn faces" in pvp because they can throw money where skill, effort, work, and all around player abilities are severely lacking. "The Agency" is another future "MMO" with hopes at the cash shop industry for F2P games. Hey look, another sub-par game with massive instancing and an overall appeal to console gamers (they literally are shooting for a console based game, and then porting it over to PC....watch the latest dev interview). The SWG dev team was forced into the "cash shop" trading card game due to how badly SOE+LA screwed the game over, and now rakes in mediocre profits from the trading card game + $15/mo subscriptions (or station passes).
Sorry, but you individuals whom think the RMT market is "The Future" are ignorant. You want to use your Visa's instead of your brains/abilities to PLAY A GAME. If you have to pay for particular items you lack the ability to get on your own, theres no point in even playing the game other than to shove it in someone's face that you have a disposable income (or parents) to throw money at, instead of bullets/arrows/spells/we.
Again so sorry, but those of you whom support (and look forward to) RMT games can have them....all of the ones I've seen so far have either been boycotted into P2P system (such as the new StarWars MMO), or are simply so sub-par with their developement they are doing it for sheer money-raking abilities. I'll be here 5 years from now picking apart your illogical thought patterns with a blender.
-cheers
You seemed to have left alot out of your list.
Most of the others that I left out on purpose don't deserve honorable mentions. The only ones worth speaking about are the ones above. Everything else is either SOE based (money grubbing suits that they are) and more Asian based companies.
I'm sorry Veleran, but no matter how many times the small minority that want RMT based mmo's claim "it's the future"....it won't happen to the extent you wish it to be.
$15/mo is easily chump change, hell it's lunch money to people whom work for a living, or live with their parents. RMT games cost MORE money than non-RMT games. Case and point:
For the same 30day package of goodies from 9 Dragons as a normal P2P subscription would be, it's $21. I used to be in a clan that had members whom paid over $40/mo for special items/potions to stay "Ahead of the pvp curve". The ONLY reason the RMT transaction based MMO system is so popular is BECAUSE of the massive amount of mula it generates BECAUSE IT COSTS MORE TO BE AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT.
Also, I laughed when the author said "the majority of the MMO community thinks otherwise". When the truth be told, they ran a poll on MMOGAMER's forums last year and found over 86% of the community (of those who voted) were AGAINST RMT transaction games.
I think you are confusing me with a supporter of RMT...I do not. Far from it...I think it is one of the main scourge of MMOs right now other than incompentent management.
These companies wouldn't be adding RMT if they were not being successful and profiting from it. It is simply marketing psychology...they are targeting impulse shoppers. The RMT companies know all to well how much people are willing to fork over. To stop it the players have to simply control themselves...which many cannot.
Odd, most of your comments around the matter that i've read over the last couple months seem to indicate you did support RMT, my bad !
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
*sniff sniff* aaaaah i love the smell of fresh bulls!@# in the morning and this thread positively reeks of it.
id like to quote more then 1 person but eh lemme say it in my own way: RMTing if for people whom god forgot to give a pair.
ooooh STORYTIME STORYTIME there once was a belf paladin who looked up at the multitude of epic flying mounts in the sky and said "those look fun im going to get 1 of my own". when the people around him heard that, they began to say "go to this site, theyre discreet. go to this site theyre cheap" the belf paladin did then pity the poor souls around him for he knew they probably did not earn anything they had. "i will get that flyer" he said "and i will get it the proper way". for months the paladin saved, for months he farmed adamantite to sell and carved beautiful gemstones for his friends to eaarn money. the day finally arrived! he had just a few more missions to run before he had all the money he needed and he rushed over to the nether ray stables to purchase his new steed as he had long since hit exalted with the shatari skyguard. congrats said his friends, we decided to show up to see you ride your ray for the first time, you are the first person in this guild to ride a ray after all. indeed, for the paladin rode around happily showing off his new toy to his friends before beelining for HFP to tank a fel reaver.
for the truly ignorant out there, that paladin was a somewhat fictionalied version of me during the TBC era of WoW. ive always been against the idea of RMT but the thing with the flying mounts in TBC really crystallized it for me. i earned that ray and damn it all, it pretty much sickened me to see people flying around and bragging about buying the gold instead of going out and farming like the rest of us. unfortunately were in a "gimme now" state of mind when it comes to MMOs so i dont see this f2p focused buisness model going away anytime soon but god willing it goes away eventually.
*edit* forgot to mention, aihoshi is an idiot, buying a better weapon IS a problem if you buy it with cash intead of game money
RMT might the end of the fun and free atmosphere in games as you know it - people will elitize based on who RMTs more.
Games will no longer be an unassociated virtual reality, instead they will be a mirror of your real life credit card budget.
Of course, this is only in games that use Item Malls are a RMT.
I see nothing wrong with the sale of in-game characters, in-game items, as long as there's no item mall associated with it. They conquered the content and now they don't want to play anymore, it is fair enough to sell it, I don't even understand why it is illegal for such transactions to happen while the game offers an item shop, which is unbalanced by nature.
I see nothing wrong with an in-game TCG, as long as it doesn't interfere in the gameplay outside of it.
I see nothing wrong with customizations, such as name change, hair and skin changes, server transfers and such cosmetic services that are charged for.
Games should be in a monthly-fee format IMO, or be free-to-play without item malls, as they will eventually become the focus of developer new content and unbalance the game, I've seen it happen a lot, and it won't really make players stay away from the game when they have already played it for a reasonable amount of time, they will try to play without it and eventually get into it.
Illegal RMTs destroy an in-game economy, ultimately leading those that do not use it to end up going into it or stopping to play the game when it becomes a major factor in the game.
Its an interesting Blog, but there is one thing about the whole RMT concept that is easily dismissed: A lot of players do not like it, and thus are an audience which a company that doesnt follow this trend has a lot of pull with.
Basically, there are many players who like the fact that RL money, assets, influence, power or whatever does not figure into these games. With modern MMOs which also dont need insane amounts of time, but where you can play smart and skillful to achieve what dumbasses need 10-times the time you did, its a lot about equal opportunity and fair and level playing field.
RMT may create revenue, but it does not only add to a game, it subtracts somewhere else. As long as at least one company/design studio sees the value of the customer not interested in RMT-defiled lopsided games, this trend will make them much stronger.
It then really becomes a question of whether the games WITH RMT are able to provide better quality for more people and a better playing experience than the ones with just a monthly fee. You are mistaken if you believe that RMT is not a dealbreaker for many players.
Let's recap on games which have the "cash shop" payment system: ALL Asian grinders whom no one gives two craps about, unless they are rich and want to "pwn faces" in pvp because they can throw money where skill, effort, work, and all around player abilities are severely lacking. "The Agency" is another future "MMO" with hopes at the cash shop industry for F2P games. Hey look, another sub-par game with massive instancing and an overall appeal to console gamers (they literally are shooting for a console based game, and then porting it over to PC....watch the latest dev interview). The SWG dev team was forced into the "cash shop" trading card game due to how badly SOE+LA screwed the game over, and now rakes in mediocre profits from the trading card game + $15/mo subscriptions (or station passes).
Sorry, but you individuals whom think the RMT market is "The Future" are ignorant. You want to use your Visa's instead of your brains/abilities to PLAY A GAME. If you have to pay for particular items you lack the ability to get on your own, theres no point in even playing the game other than to shove it in someone's face that you have a disposable income (or parents) to throw money at, instead of bullets/arrows/spells/we.
Again so sorry, but those of you whom support (and look forward to) RMT games can have them....all of the ones I've seen so far have either been boycotted into P2P system (such as the new StarWars MMO), or are simply so sub-par with their developement they are doing it for sheer money-raking abilities. I'll be here 5 years from now picking apart your illogical thought patterns with a blender.
-cheers
You seemed to have left alot out of your list.
Most of the others that I left out on purpose don't deserve honorable mentions. The only ones worth speaking about are the ones above. Everything else is either SOE based (money grubbing suits that they are) and more Asian based companies.
I'm sorry Veleran, but no matter how many times the small minority that want RMT based mmo's claim "it's the future"....it won't happen to the extent you wish it to be.
$15/mo is easily chump change, hell it's lunch money to people whom work for a living, or live with their parents. RMT games cost MORE money than non-RMT games. Case and point:
For the same 30day package of goodies from 9 Dragons as a normal P2P subscription would be, it's $21. I used to be in a clan that had members whom paid over $40/mo for special items/potions to stay "Ahead of the pvp curve". The ONLY reason the RMT transaction based MMO system is so popular is BECAUSE of the massive amount of mula it generates BECAUSE IT COSTS MORE TO BE AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT.
Also, I laughed when the author said "the majority of the MMO community thinks otherwise". When the truth be told, they ran a poll on MMOGAMER's forums last year and found over 86% of the community (of those who voted) were AGAINST RMT transaction games.
I think you are confusing me with a supporter of RMT...I do not. Far from it...I think it is one of the main scourge of MMOs right now other than incompentent management.
These companies wouldn't be adding RMT if they were not being successful and profiting from it. It is simply marketing psychology...they are targeting impulse shoppers. The RMT companies know all to well how much people are willing to fork over. To stop it the players have to simply control themselves...which many cannot.
Odd, most of your comments around the matter that i've read over the last couple months seem to indicate you did support RMT, my bad !
I can promise you that you have not seen any post by me supporting RMT of any type including TCG if they add "loot items". WoW is the exception for TCG because they seem to have done it in an ethical manner.
For F2P games I can it tolerate it but for subscription based games I do not at all. Especially with premium monthly payment games...ie $15/month.
I have said that it is inevitable simply because it exploits human psychological weakness/impulses...The type of human behavior marketing people love to exploit. Think of RMT like all the candy and other sundry items stores place at the checkout counters.
Here's my take on the RMT market. It's like sitting down with friends to play a fun game of Monopoly and have one player give everyone $5 bucks to own Boardwalk and Park Place at the start. It no longer becomes just a game, but it is now tainted by the economy. I play games to compete, level up, customize my character and induldge in fun PvP combat. I want to feel like I earned everything like it was meant to be earned.
RMT will be part of the future but there will still be games who will act against it. I'm actually encouraging some game companies to go ahead with the RMT market, that way in the subscription only games I play I won't have as many of them ruining my experience.
RMT will be part of the future but there will still be games who will act against it. I'm actually encouraging some game companies to go ahead with the RMT market, that way in the subscription only games I play I won't have as many of them ruining my experience.
I agree and hope that you are correct but the temptation will be great developers see that model bringing in $$$.
RMT will stop when the war on drugs is over, ......it will never stop, The best solutyion is to have a few servers that support RMT run by the game company itself, and have non-rmt servers where the mmo police of the company can start mad banning the gold spammers, and in that case the gold buyers.
I think they can't control RMT in the game industry.. in F2P game you have a choice if you want to buy in their item mall... We all knew that by using item mall f2P that becomes P2P... Even thoguh we are not paying monthly to subscribe the game yet there's their item mall that can pursuade players to buy on it.. but it was still depends on the player, if the player enjoys the game by not buying anything in their item mall it would be better..
Amazing, I disagree with the OP yet again. I really hope he is wrong, because I know for a fact that I (and my friends) will simply not pay a subscription fee to play a game with RMT. It doesn't matter if it is for items, pre made characters or whatever - implement that and we're gone.
I'd rather play limited access / cooperative single player RPGs with a few friends than play an MMO where everything is RMT.
Why? Because I'm playing games to have fun - trying to "buy" advantages to somehow get more fun is just messed up.
I'm surprised anyone would look at something that works in other countries and then look at America and say, "Sure! It's inevitable!" There've been better ideas that didn't hold water here. Let's name some. The metric system. The electric car (except the gas prices changed that finally). Bullet trains. From everything I've read, gamers in asian countries tend to be more cooperative and team-centered. Whereas in the U.S. there's a larger trend toward individualism. To me, even if a game doesn't put me in direct competition with someone else (via pvp), I'm still in competition with them as far as level and item gains go. I'm proud of the fact that I've got Shiny Sword of Pigmailia on my max level toon, because I know how hard I had to "work" to get it. And as well, if I see someone with something even better, there's a little awe for what they, likewise, were able to accomplish. Now, give people the ability to speed through levels or gain cool looking items just by buying them with real money, that kind of thing sours me on the entire experience. Now I don't know if that person with the awesome hammer actually earned it, or paid for it with dollars. Again, most of this is just my opinion, but I hope to not have to play a game where the richer person wins or has the ability to win based solely on his real world wealth.
Heh! Great examples
I saw in Warrior Epic, you could buy cosmetic additions to place in your warrior hall, or whatever its called. Given how static the hall environment is, this isn't much more sophistocated than dragging pretty pictures into a photoshop image. Do people actually pay for this stuff?
Items malls today in general aren't all that bad as they were compared to two or three years ago, a few companies have gotten the balance down pretty well anymore, Atlantica Online for example has mot of the items tradeable in game, so you can just purchase from the ingame auction house instead of through the item mall, yet nothing that increases character effectiveness that much. WoW has done a decent balance with some success for a pay to play as well, with their TCG bringing in a small dual income.
If Blizzard/EA/SoE continued to follow that pattern and made an item mall where almost every item is capable of being sold ingame, instead of being account specific, or more visually appealing to make peoples characters stand out from the crowd, then I think people will be willing to play while others play and pay. Which would then lead to an overall change in the genre.
Look at the MMO hobby from the outside looking in, with as little bias as possible. How much have the cost of the monthly payments increases since UO debuted? ~$3-5? That's a small amount of inflation compared to how much have movies ticket prices have increased, or simply groceries, or even utilities like Water or electricity. Eventually at least one company will want to not have to count on subscriber numbers alone for success to pay the bills and techs, this will either lead to more item mall shops, or MMOs going to a pay per hour method to help carry some weight.
We're already seeing an interesting shift in MMOS in general. Today we have far more F2P item mall MMOs that have quality on par or better then P2P, and look at the top five rated games on this site alone, Atlantica Online has been holding either first or second position for MONTHS now and it isn't a new game, but where is WoW? FFXI? WAR? AoC? Only game that seems to be holding against that particular free MMO is LotRO. Eventually the P2P companies will use the stigma that "because it's P2P, it must be better then F2P" to their advantage and create flatout Item malls, EQ2 already has a good basis for one already, giving out equipment to enhance your characters looks, pets, titles, ect.
When you look at the success of Wizard101, club Penguin, Ruins of Magic, Atlantica and Freerealms (which more or less exploded onto the market) IMHO, MMO makers are going to have a hard time justifying NOT going RMT / premium service model.
Contrast those to the most recent subscription based MMO's released where the hottest topic is server consolidation not long after their launch (Age of Conan, WAR...)
I think you get a pretty clear picture of where this genre is going. Had western companies not launched so many low quality poorly made games based on monthly subs over the years, players wouldn't be so jaded and leery of them. I'm sure the string of games where people upgraded their PC, dropped 50 bucks on a box and then were expected to shell out a monthly sub for a game that hardly worked at launch and wasn't even close to finished had an impact on all of this.
I think the same people who argue "RMT is inevitable" are the same people who seem to believe (falsely) that the majority of MMO players like PvP. They only see the market through their jaded eyes and ignore all facts surrounding reality.
The only reason RMT works is because the markets they are mainly run in (third world) are were people do not have a steady stream of reliable income or own their own home internet connections. Over there, the job situation is by and large agricultural or some other type, and people do not simply have the $15/month to steadily pay. So being able to pay $10 one month and nothing the next when you dont' have money makes sense.
This model will evolve in NA and EU, but will never be as popular as monthly subs because games that run off a P2P model offer tons more content. I do not consider fluffy mounts, tons of wardrobes and 5,000,000 emotes you can buy as "content".
There is a reason AION is NOT a cashshop game; NCSoft knew they wouldn't get too many people in the first/second world countries with that kind of game model nor would they have been able to support the money up front on the whim that someone might have wanted to play a game with lesser play content, but more fluffy trinkets.
Comments
You seemed to have left alot out of your list.
Most of the others that I left out on purpose don't deserve honorable mentions. The only ones worth speaking about are the ones above. Everything else is either SOE based (money grubbing suits that they are) and more Asian based companies.
I'm sorry Veleran, but no matter how many times the small minority that want RMT based mmo's claim "it's the future"....it won't happen to the extent you wish it to be.
$15/mo is easily chump change, hell it's lunch money to people whom work for a living, or live with their parents. RMT games cost MORE money than non-RMT games. Case and point:
For the same 30day package of goodies from 9 Dragons as a normal P2P subscription would be, it's $21. I used to be in a clan that had members whom paid over $40/mo for special items/potions to stay "Ahead of the pvp curve". The ONLY reason the RMT transaction based MMO system is so popular is BECAUSE of the massive amount of mula it generates BECAUSE IT COSTS MORE TO BE AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT.
Also, I laughed when the author said "the majority of the MMO community thinks otherwise". When the truth be told, they ran a poll on MMOGAMER's forums last year and found over 86% of the community (of those who voted) were AGAINST RMT transaction games.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
I don't worry one way or the other about RMT. But for us USA players I see the federal and or state governments figuring out a way that they are going to collect sales taxes on these transactions. This will be a golden oppertunity to test the waters of taxing the internet by hitting gamers first. Perefect scapegoat, who cares if gamers are taxed.
tinfoil hat removed
Don't worry, the only way to tax the internet through direct transactions like this would be to remove anonimity of the net, which won't EVER happen. Another internet would spring up (guerilla.net lol?) in it's place due to the outrage.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
You seemed to have left alot out of your list.
Most of the others that I left out on purpose don't deserve honorable mentions. The only ones worth speaking about are the ones above. Everything else is either SOE based (money grubbing suits that they are) and more Asian based companies.
I'm sorry Veleran, but no matter how many times the small minority that want RMT based mmo's claim "it's the future"....it won't happen to the extent you wish it to be.
$15/mo is easily chump change, hell it's lunch money to people whom work for a living, or live with their parents. RMT games cost MORE money than non-RMT games. Case and point:
For the same 30day package of goodies from 9 Dragons as a normal P2P subscription would be, it's $21. I used to be in a clan that had members whom paid over $40/mo for special items/potions to stay "Ahead of the pvp curve". The ONLY reason the RMT transaction based MMO system is so popular is BECAUSE of the massive amount of mula it generates BECAUSE IT COSTS MORE TO BE AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT.
Also, I laughed when the author said "the majority of the MMO community thinks otherwise". When the truth be told, they ran a poll on MMOGAMER's forums last year and found over 86% of the community (of those who voted) were AGAINST RMT transaction games.
I think you are confusing me with a supporter of RMT...I do not. Far from it...I think it is one of the main scourge of MMOs right now other than incompentent management.
These companies wouldn't be adding RMT if they were not being successful and profiting from it. It is simply marketing psychology...they are targeting impulse shoppers. The RMT companies know all to well how much people are willing to fork over. To stop it the players have to simply control themselves...which many cannot.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I also think its an "either or" situation. You can't have a monthly sub and slap item shops in also.
It's funny to think less then 2 years ago people on this site laughed at the idea of RMT based games becoming mainstream or evolving into a core business model. (for better or worse)
IMHO the F2P model with a premium membership setup will be the wave of the future with western MMO's and will the standard business model in the next few years. (hell, its already happening)
I really hope this isnt the case mate,the thought of a pvp battle with regards to my visa bill does not get me excited.
I do how ever feel you maybe right and that gaming companies will make more money this way,I guess then I will step back and get another hobby.
I guess the good news is I cant see it happening in the next 4 or 5 years,no need to worry atm.
My personal opinion is that it will not help the companies much in the long run. The reason for that is that it will drive people like myself from MMO's. I have no problem playing single player games, and will not participate in RMT. If a game I am playing turns into RMT for items that cause a player to be way better off than just playing the game I will cancel my subscrition and move on. If all MMO's are RMT then I will be saddened and play only single player games. I may or may not be in the minority. I have no problem paying a subscrition, and it is fair because these games exist on a cash inflow, however RMT which gives unfair advantages to those who have more money than me will never be an option I will choose.
A lot of people have the romantic image of people in chinese sweat-shops grinding gold to feed their families. But this is not the only source of ingame currency and items. A whole underground web-market full of criminals evolved around stealing and reselling virtual assets.
The reasons are obvious: If you manage to get credit-card numbers out of your trojan compromised victims it is very complicated to make profit out of them, because financial transactions are well documented and monitored. Not everyone has a bank account on the caymans or a post office box in Nigeria to launder money. But if you plunder your victims account and sell them in item/gold-shops, nobody will care. Every police-station will question your sanity if you want to report the theft of your epic mount and your whole ingame wealth, no matter how many thousand dollars it was worth.
Some paper that deals with this topic: honeyblog.org/junkyard/reports/www-china-TR.pdf
Some brief abstract:
So buying virtual assets from non-official sources on the one hand and getting angry when you have to wipe your OS and change all your passwords because you catched a trojan while surfing your favorite torrent sites on the other hand is a double standard.
That does not mean, I have problems with every form of RMT.
Positive example: EVE-Online
A player wants to purchase ingame currency. So he buys a gametime card from CCP and converts it into PLEXes. 1 PLEX = 30 days of gametime. A poor student wants to extend his EVE account. So he grinds some missions and buys the PLEX out of the market.
It's a win-win-win situation:
1. The player that does not want to grind gets his ingame currency, safe and riskfree.
2. The poor student can play Eve for free.
3. CCP has made money by selling a game-time card and made the item-sellers life a bit more worse.
But the main reason why people don't have a real problem with RMT in Eve:
Eve has a full-loot system. If you spend crazy amounts of real money for your equipment, you have a gigantic sign with "primary target" above your head. Epic equipment is not the neccesarily an "I win"-reason in Eve, because you risk it every time you undock.
Negative Examples:
All theese "pay to not suck"-games. A main aspect of games is fairness, no matter if it is a simple board game or the olympic games. Would you take part in a sports competition, where the person wins who spent most money on the referees?
In games with full-loot systems, RMT balances itself. But it is hard to balance RMT for most other MMOs in such a way that it is not considered as unfair by the majority of the players.
www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/2319016/ < If you put out a quality product then there is no need for RMT.
I'm not against RMT as long as its done right (items are mostly fluff and all funds collected go to making more content).
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
RMT can be good or bad, it all depends on imlementation really.
Take City of Heroes, standard $15 a month, gets you th costume creator, 8 character slots, 14 issues of content.
But some people jsut want more. So with RTM they let you buy a server move, a chsracter rename, or extra character slots. Theirs also some fluf items like The Wedding Pack (emotes and wedding costumes) The Cyborg pack (emotes, costume pieces, and a power that does decent dammange but kills you), the Mage Pack (emote, costume, minor buff power) and Mac Pack (emote, costume, port to mission power on a long timer)
As long as its all cosmetic, emotes, character slots, server switch, character name change, and doesn't give distinct player advantages, then I am fine with anything. If more money = more skills = better player, I would immediately quit any game of that nature.
You seemed to have left alot out of your list.
Most of the others that I left out on purpose don't deserve honorable mentions. The only ones worth speaking about are the ones above. Everything else is either SOE based (money grubbing suits that they are) and more Asian based companies.
I'm sorry Veleran, but no matter how many times the small minority that want RMT based mmo's claim "it's the future"....it won't happen to the extent you wish it to be.
$15/mo is easily chump change, hell it's lunch money to people whom work for a living, or live with their parents. RMT games cost MORE money than non-RMT games. Case and point:
For the same 30day package of goodies from 9 Dragons as a normal P2P subscription would be, it's $21. I used to be in a clan that had members whom paid over $40/mo for special items/potions to stay "Ahead of the pvp curve". The ONLY reason the RMT transaction based MMO system is so popular is BECAUSE of the massive amount of mula it generates BECAUSE IT COSTS MORE TO BE AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT.
Also, I laughed when the author said "the majority of the MMO community thinks otherwise". When the truth be told, they ran a poll on MMOGAMER's forums last year and found over 86% of the community (of those who voted) were AGAINST RMT transaction games.
I think you are confusing me with a supporter of RMT...I do not. Far from it...I think it is one of the main scourge of MMOs right now other than incompentent management.
These companies wouldn't be adding RMT if they were not being successful and profiting from it. It is simply marketing psychology...they are targeting impulse shoppers. The RMT companies know all to well how much people are willing to fork over. To stop it the players have to simply control themselves...which many cannot.
Odd, most of your comments around the matter that i've read over the last couple months seem to indicate you did support RMT, my bad
!
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
*sniff sniff* aaaaah i love the smell of fresh bulls!@# in the morning and this thread positively reeks of it.
id like to quote more then 1 person but eh lemme say it in my own way: RMTing if for people whom god forgot to give a pair.
ooooh STORYTIME STORYTIME there once was a belf paladin who looked up at the multitude of epic flying mounts in the sky and said "those look fun im going to get 1 of my own". when the people around him heard that, they began to say "go to this site, theyre discreet. go to this site theyre cheap" the belf paladin did then pity the poor souls around him for he knew they probably did not earn anything they had. "i will get that flyer" he said "and i will get it the proper way". for months the paladin saved, for months he farmed adamantite to sell and carved beautiful gemstones for his friends to eaarn money. the day finally arrived! he had just a few more missions to run before he had all the money he needed and he rushed over to the nether ray stables to purchase his new steed as he had long since hit exalted with the shatari skyguard. congrats said his friends, we decided to show up to see you ride your ray for the first time, you are the first person in this guild to ride a ray after all. indeed, for the paladin rode around happily showing off his new toy to his friends before beelining for HFP to tank a fel reaver.
for the truly ignorant out there, that paladin was a somewhat fictionalied version of me during the TBC era of WoW. ive always been against the idea of RMT but the thing with the flying mounts in TBC really crystallized it for me. i earned that ray and damn it all, it pretty much sickened me to see people flying around and bragging about buying the gold instead of going out and farming like the rest of us. unfortunately were in a "gimme now" state of mind when it comes to MMOs so i dont see this f2p focused buisness model going away anytime soon but god willing it goes away eventually.
*edit* forgot to mention, aihoshi is an idiot, buying a better weapon IS a problem if you buy it with cash intead of game money
RMT might the end of the fun and free atmosphere in games as you know it - people will elitize based on who RMTs more.
Games will no longer be an unassociated virtual reality, instead they will be a mirror of your real life credit card budget.
Of course, this is only in games that use Item Malls are a RMT.
I see nothing wrong with the sale of in-game characters, in-game items, as long as there's no item mall associated with it. They conquered the content and now they don't want to play anymore, it is fair enough to sell it, I don't even understand why it is illegal for such transactions to happen while the game offers an item shop, which is unbalanced by nature.
I see nothing wrong with an in-game TCG, as long as it doesn't interfere in the gameplay outside of it.
I see nothing wrong with customizations, such as name change, hair and skin changes, server transfers and such cosmetic services that are charged for.
Games should be in a monthly-fee format IMO, or be free-to-play without item malls, as they will eventually become the focus of developer new content and unbalance the game, I've seen it happen a lot, and it won't really make players stay away from the game when they have already played it for a reasonable amount of time, they will try to play without it and eventually get into it.
Illegal RMTs destroy an in-game economy, ultimately leading those that do not use it to end up going into it or stopping to play the game when it becomes a major factor in the game.
Its an interesting Blog, but there is one thing about the whole RMT concept that is easily dismissed: A lot of players do not like it, and thus are an audience which a company that doesnt follow this trend has a lot of pull with.
Basically, there are many players who like the fact that RL money, assets, influence, power or whatever does not figure into these games. With modern MMOs which also dont need insane amounts of time, but where you can play smart and skillful to achieve what dumbasses need 10-times the time you did, its a lot about equal opportunity and fair and level playing field.
RMT may create revenue, but it does not only add to a game, it subtracts somewhere else. As long as at least one company/design studio sees the value of the customer not interested in RMT-defiled lopsided games, this trend will make them much stronger.
It then really becomes a question of whether the games WITH RMT are able to provide better quality for more people and a better playing experience than the ones with just a monthly fee. You are mistaken if you believe that RMT is not a dealbreaker for many players.
You seemed to have left alot out of your list.
Most of the others that I left out on purpose don't deserve honorable mentions. The only ones worth speaking about are the ones above. Everything else is either SOE based (money grubbing suits that they are) and more Asian based companies.
I'm sorry Veleran, but no matter how many times the small minority that want RMT based mmo's claim "it's the future"....it won't happen to the extent you wish it to be.
$15/mo is easily chump change, hell it's lunch money to people whom work for a living, or live with their parents. RMT games cost MORE money than non-RMT games. Case and point:
For the same 30day package of goodies from 9 Dragons as a normal P2P subscription would be, it's $21. I used to be in a clan that had members whom paid over $40/mo for special items/potions to stay "Ahead of the pvp curve". The ONLY reason the RMT transaction based MMO system is so popular is BECAUSE of the massive amount of mula it generates BECAUSE IT COSTS MORE TO BE AN ACTIVE PARTICIPANT.
Also, I laughed when the author said "the majority of the MMO community thinks otherwise". When the truth be told, they ran a poll on MMOGAMER's forums last year and found over 86% of the community (of those who voted) were AGAINST RMT transaction games.
I think you are confusing me with a supporter of RMT...I do not. Far from it...I think it is one of the main scourge of MMOs right now other than incompentent management.
These companies wouldn't be adding RMT if they were not being successful and profiting from it. It is simply marketing psychology...they are targeting impulse shoppers. The RMT companies know all to well how much people are willing to fork over. To stop it the players have to simply control themselves...which many cannot.
Odd, most of your comments around the matter that i've read over the last couple months seem to indicate you did support RMT, my bad
!
I can promise you that you have not seen any post by me supporting RMT of any type including TCG if they add "loot items". WoW is the exception for TCG because they seem to have done it in an ethical manner.
For F2P games I can it tolerate it but for subscription based games I do not at all. Especially with premium monthly payment games...ie $15/month.
I have said that it is inevitable simply because it exploits human psychological weakness/impulses...The type of human behavior marketing people love to exploit. Think of RMT like all the candy and other sundry items stores place at the checkout counters.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
I hope it's inevitable.
Beau
Listen to the Spouse Aggro podcast at spouseaggro.com. Twitter: spouseaggro
Here's my take on the RMT market. It's like sitting down with friends to play a fun game of Monopoly and have one player give everyone $5 bucks to own Boardwalk and Park Place at the start. It no longer becomes just a game, but it is now tainted by the economy. I play games to compete, level up, customize my character and induldge in fun PvP combat. I want to feel like I earned everything like it was meant to be earned.
RMT will be part of the future but there will still be games who will act against it. I'm actually encouraging some game companies to go ahead with the RMT market, that way in the subscription only games I play I won't have as many of them ruining my experience.
I agree and hope that you are correct but the temptation will be great developers see that model bringing in $$$.
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Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
RMT will stop when the war on drugs is over, ......it will never stop, The best solutyion is to have a few servers that support RMT run by the game company itself, and have non-rmt servers where the mmo police of the company can start mad banning the gold spammers, and in that case the gold buyers.
playing eq2 and two worlds
I think they can't control RMT in the game industry.. in F2P game you have a choice if you want to buy in their item mall... We all knew that by using item mall f2P that becomes P2P... Even thoguh we are not paying monthly to subscribe the game yet there's their item mall that can pursuade players to buy on it.. but it was still depends on the player, if the player enjoys the game by not buying anything in their item mall it would be better..
*** Atlantica Online***Reanemeiko*** Mycenae
('@') Oink!
Amazing, I disagree with the OP yet again. I really hope he is wrong, because I know for a fact that I (and my friends) will simply not pay a subscription fee to play a game with RMT. It doesn't matter if it is for items, pre made characters or whatever - implement that and we're gone.
I'd rather play limited access / cooperative single player RPGs with a few friends than play an MMO where everything is RMT.
Why? Because I'm playing games to have fun - trying to "buy" advantages to somehow get more fun is just messed up.
Heh! Great examples
I saw in Warrior Epic, you could buy cosmetic additions to place in your warrior hall, or whatever its called. Given how static the hall environment is, this isn't much more sophistocated than dragging pretty pictures into a photoshop image. Do people actually pay for this stuff?
I agree with those of you in this "blog", if you even wanted to call it that, whom have the sense of mind to call Aihoshi an idiot.
The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity:
Having a different opinion must mean you're a troll.
Items malls today in general aren't all that bad as they were compared to two or three years ago, a few companies have gotten the balance down pretty well anymore, Atlantica Online for example has mot of the items tradeable in game, so you can just purchase from the ingame auction house instead of through the item mall, yet nothing that increases character effectiveness that much. WoW has done a decent balance with some success for a pay to play as well, with their TCG bringing in a small dual income.
If Blizzard/EA/SoE continued to follow that pattern and made an item mall where almost every item is capable of being sold ingame, instead of being account specific, or more visually appealing to make peoples characters stand out from the crowd, then I think people will be willing to play while others play and pay. Which would then lead to an overall change in the genre.
Look at the MMO hobby from the outside looking in, with as little bias as possible. How much have the cost of the monthly payments increases since UO debuted? ~$3-5? That's a small amount of inflation compared to how much have movies ticket prices have increased, or simply groceries, or even utilities like Water or electricity. Eventually at least one company will want to not have to count on subscriber numbers alone for success to pay the bills and techs, this will either lead to more item mall shops, or MMOs going to a pay per hour method to help carry some weight.
We're already seeing an interesting shift in MMOS in general. Today we have far more F2P item mall MMOs that have quality on par or better then P2P, and look at the top five rated games on this site alone, Atlantica Online has been holding either first or second position for MONTHS now and it isn't a new game, but where is WoW? FFXI? WAR? AoC? Only game that seems to be holding against that particular free MMO is LotRO. Eventually the P2P companies will use the stigma that "because it's P2P, it must be better then F2P" to their advantage and create flatout Item malls, EQ2 already has a good basis for one already, giving out equipment to enhance your characters looks, pets, titles, ect.
When you look at the success of Wizard101, club Penguin, Ruins of Magic, Atlantica and Freerealms (which more or less exploded onto the market) IMHO, MMO makers are going to have a hard time justifying NOT going RMT / premium service model.
Contrast those to the most recent subscription based MMO's released where the hottest topic is server consolidation not long after their launch (Age of Conan, WAR...)
I think you get a pretty clear picture of where this genre is going. Had western companies not launched so many low quality poorly made games based on monthly subs over the years, players wouldn't be so jaded and leery of them. I'm sure the string of games where people upgraded their PC, dropped 50 bucks on a box and then were expected to shell out a monthly sub for a game that hardly worked at launch and wasn't even close to finished had an impact on all of this.
I think the same people who argue "RMT is inevitable" are the same people who seem to believe (falsely) that the majority of MMO players like PvP. They only see the market through their jaded eyes and ignore all facts surrounding reality.
The only reason RMT works is because the markets they are mainly run in (third world) are were people do not have a steady stream of reliable income or own their own home internet connections. Over there, the job situation is by and large agricultural or some other type, and people do not simply have the $15/month to steadily pay. So being able to pay $10 one month and nothing the next when you dont' have money makes sense.
This model will evolve in NA and EU, but will never be as popular as monthly subs because games that run off a P2P model offer tons more content. I do not consider fluffy mounts, tons of wardrobes and 5,000,000 emotes you can buy as "content".
There is a reason AION is NOT a cashshop game; NCSoft knew they wouldn't get too many people in the first/second world countries with that kind of game model nor would they have been able to support the money up front on the whim that someone might have wanted to play a game with lesser play content, but more fluffy trinkets.
"TO MICHAEL!"