Comparing Champions Online to a Graphic Novel and CoX to a Comic book was very revealing as to how much hyping someone is doing. Not that I think that the art in Champions Online is very impressive, but, apparently, the person making the reference doesn't understand that most graphics novels these days were comics before they were ever graphic novels - most notably the most popular/exposed/hyped/rated graphic novel of all times - the Watchmen. I guess it was written by someone that doesn't know what they are talking about.
I completely agree about the "graphic novel/comic book" comparison. That is, quite frankly, astonishingly ignorant of an entire medium.
It's like saying driving a new BMW reminds you more of driving an automobile rather than a car. Or the new Terminator movie reminds you more of a film than a movie.
Perhaps the writer should do a wee bit of research, and maybe look up the word "synonym."
The reviewers comment make total sense. In the Standard comic book fare, not a specialized singe series, but your usual run of the mill comic book there is a general and recognized art style. When they do Graphic novels they usually use a different style as a tool to emphasize something, gritty art work to show a dark and dangerous world, hard angular lines or many other tricks to further accentuate the artwork. The reviewer is saying CoX was like your regular comic book, standard and easily recognizable, Champs on the other hand changes the art work slightly giving it a familiar but distinctive look, much like a standard series comic and a graphic novel
And the reviewers intent was completely obvious, unless you're trolling and just looking for something to pick at.
I'm all for being critical, but the negativity so often seen here is disturbing.
"The reviewer said something wrong, so this game is going to suck!! Everybody run!!!!"
Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, get on the program!"
That is a very valid question Yamota, but as this was the writers first preview I don't think they just jumped into PvP, especially as most people probably view PvP as a closer to end-game thing. I will tell you this about the PvP, there will be arenas, and special places and instances where you will be able to PvP (speaking on speculation from developer blogs and dev posts, etc.) It might also make you happy to know that you will be able to level up while PvP'ing. You gain experience and other items via PvP as this game, unlike CoH will have actual "loot" that your character can use, such as weapons.
Ok, thanks for the info. It was just a few lines but enough for preview but the previewer did not even mention it, and that shows incompetence for someone previewing an MMORPG.
And what ticks me of is that this seem to happen with alot of previews that MMORPG.COM does, they seem to be terribly biased against PvP if they even fail to acknowledge if it exists or not, like they don't care.
Sadly, I was unable to actually experience the pvp elements of the game..hopefully in the future I'll be able to. This was a very limited first impression, and we're hoping to get more information to you all later with regards to further end game play and pvp!
Oh and Lazarus....
"I think what they meant is, you actually have to move to position your character as maybe it doesn't auto position you. For example, you have a guy thats 20 ft away, and you try and use a "smash" ability.. they may be saying, when you use "smash" it doesn't walk you up to them and position you close enough to make the attack. Again this is just speculation on what she may have meant."
Thank you for that clarification...your response was dead on.
Wasn't me who wrote that Seridove. Lets just say though I won't disagree with the above thought he stated.
After reading this review, I have two questions. 1) How will the game deal with lag? Since this is a "twitch" game that requires split-second timing, what happens if your internet connection suddenly gets a glitch and you start rubber banding or your get screen stagger? 2) If anyone can help or hinder you on a mission, does that mean that grievers can just fly around ruining other people's missions just for laughs? Sorry. I want to play an superhero MMO not a quasihero online fighting game.
I can deal with lag issues if it's twitched based targetting. I enjoy that more than playing a boring point-n-click (or Tab) to auto-lock on a target.
I would imagine it would have the same problems Hellgate had, as server desyncs would cause mobs to appear far away on your screen, while in fact they were right next to your character, scoring one-hit critical kills. However this didn't bother me much, and I played in Hardcore mode (meaning one life, you die, you loose your toon and have to reroll it to level 1 again).
It has to be understood by the gamers out there that twitch-based action, though it is fun, will have it's problems with syncronizing all the elements such as players, players in parites, and mob AI and movement.
This also occurs in Neocron, though not to the extent as in Hellgate. Also, and so I've heard from a friend, that this does not happen at all in Fallen Earth, or that he hasn't noticed it yet.
Ultimately, lag and server sync issues will occur, but the real question is if Champion's network code is up to the task of handling it in a way that isn't too destructive and/or detremental to gameplay. I hope for their sakes it handles it "seemlessly" and not use techniques such as aukward, and periodic pausing to allow for sync'ing of information and data packets.
I don't share your preferences. My internet connection works 99% of the time. It's that 1% that's a pain in the ass. And most of the time that 1% happens at the worst moment. CoX does a good job adapting to lag, but a twitch game does not. I do NOT find twitch games to be very fun. If you're off by a second, you're toast and not everyone has the hardware to do that. This sounds like you can be taken down by a spot of bad luck. No thanks, that's too hardcore for me.
The ability to block just allows you to cut down damage on big moves, you can also dodge certain boss attacks, but dont go into the game expecting it to be counter strike with a cape. There is a lot more interactivity in combat then the average MMO but dont let the idea of faster paced combat scare you away from this title.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
What pisses me off about that review was the totally unfounded bias toward the 'all mighty console gamer'. In my own first hand experience, console gamers suck at mmo's in comparison to keyboard/mouse players when thrown into a fully implemented interface that takes advantage of the keyboard/mouse. Granted, games such as FFIX which is designed from the ground up to be a console platform feel much more comfortable and is easier to use.
The statements lauding the ability to be on easy mode if you happen to have a console gaming background is rather off. The reviewer could have just as easily stated "If you have half a brain and dont dive into content w/out taking a half a second to think first' then you will be just fine. It just ticks me off that he associates common sense with having a console gamer background.
Wow, I wish we were testing the same game the author was previewing.
I can't wait for them to finally lift the NDA, this thread would easily be up to 50+ pages by now. Sadly my guess is that the NDA will be in place for a looooooong time still. I would bet it's in place till August 20th at the earliest, assuming they don't decide to push the date back again.
Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, get on the program!
Because it's easy to please pvpers, add decent combat and give players a reason to fight like intanced pvp or some world pvp objective and they bash eachothers faces in for months.
It's much harder to please the pve guys that rush through all content right to the buggy untested endgame and bitch about it lacking content and stuff like that.
People that care about shit like quests and pve progression far outwieght those that enjoy pvp (which sucks for someone like me).
because of this most quick first looks focus on pve stuff.
Well they don't have to write elaborate descriptions about PvP but like maybe mention that it exists or not? And if so, is it in the forms of arenas, duels, zones? Whatever, the word PvP didn't even exist in the whole article and that alone I would say be enough to write of this "preview" as biased against PvP because they didn't even bother to mention it.
Well it was a limited hands on. Maybe pvp doesn't come into play until later levels.
Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, get on the program!
Because it's easy to please pvpers, add decent combat and give players a reason to fight like intanced pvp or some world pvp objective and they bash eachothers faces in for months.
It's much harder to please the pve guys that rush through all content right to the buggy untested endgame and bitch about it lacking content and stuff like that.
People that care about shit like quests and pve progression far outwieght those that enjoy pvp (which sucks for someone like me).
because of this most quick first looks focus on pve stuff.
I tend to disagree that instanced pvp is favorable, the more open the better, I'd think, but purpose, absolutely. Having experienced the poor impressions and lack of immersion and limiting nature i came away with about instanced pvp in potbs and war, i'd rather not see it instanced.
I think the only things that kind of bother me so far about the game are the words "instance" being so prevalent and the term PvP being pretty non-existent in the reviews and previews of the game.
I agree with whoever mentioned it, that heavy instance games just keep people from playing together in groups. Fine for a solo player, but then why are you playing an MMO if you only want to play solo anyway? Kinda defeats the purpose of playing with other people, doesn't it?
Pretty much the same with PvP. What's the point of playing with thousands of other people if you can't test your character against theirs? I know *I* for one don't want to play a game to "bunny bash" for months so I can claim I'm the best bunny-basher around. Wheee, look at me. I killed a cow.
Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, get on the program!
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, get on the program!
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, get on the program!
Can you base some study/ proof or the such to back up your claim that PVP "is one of the biggest aspects of MMORPG"s"?
Seeing as your so intent on using CoX as your yardstick I should point out your glaring mistake, Cryptic did not just "Help" bring CoX to the market, they "Developed" the whole thing and then sold it to NCSoft so they could then go and develop another hero MMO.
Actually, the did stay on with the CoH for quite a while before moving on. As they developed it, they did bring it to the market . How could it get to the market without being created?
You are right, they did not "market" the game.
They abandoned/sold out of CoH because they thought that they were going to be part of something bigger - a Marvel Online game. As far as I can decern, when Marvel dropped the idea of releasing an MMORPG, Cryptic had to do something to do with the work that they had already done. (if someone else has inside info on this, I would be glad to hear it)
Too bad that work had nothing to do with the excelent gaming system which is Champions the RPG.
I think to some extent Cryptic has begun to realize what some people expect when the Champions name is stuck on something.
Cryptic created CoH left it to try to make more money doing something else rather than supporting CoX (I guess they thought it would flop without them?) and have made a mockery of Champions RPG as far as I'm concerned.
If it really was Champoins the RPG online, I would be here backing it like crazy.
Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, get on the program!
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Go to any game that offers a choice between PvE and PvP
Count number of PvE servers
Count number of PvP servers
Pull head out of ass.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, get on the program!
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Go to any game that offers a choice between PvE and PvP
Count number of PvE servers
Count number of PvP servers
Pull head out of ass.
I would recommend starting with Step #4, as it will make steps 1, 2, and 3 significantly less difficult.
Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, get on the program!
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Personally, I enjoy PvP ONLY if its good PvP. CoX was not good PvP, whereas I felt guildwars and Warhammer had good PvP. CoX didn't originally have PvP in mind and it was thrown in... and you can clearly tell it was thrown in. After the launch of CoV there were many powerset balance problems which most games have, but I feel CoX's were self imposed. They tried to play the "balance" game, which CO just won't be doing. They stated there will be some powersets that are just more powerful then others, but there won't be a single "Ultimate build"
More questions answered (As best as I can):
JGMIII
"Well it was a limited hands on. Maybe pvp doesn't come into play until later levels."
Supposedly you can level pretty much from start to finish through PvP in arenas and so forth. They leave it as the players option, although I'm not sure if testers, or how many testers, would play this way as the game is Primarily a PvE game. I would also imagine Cryptic would rather players test the vast levels and missions while testing rather then spend their whole time in PvP-centric areas.
Reno0513
"I agree with whoever mentioned it, that heavy instance games just keep people from playing together in groups. Fine for a solo player, but then why are you playing an MMO if you only want to play solo anyway? Kinda defeats the purpose of playing with other people, doesn't it?"
I won't lie in saying that everything I've heard so far about this game has made me happy. There are a number of issues I've found with this game just by reading dev posts, blogs, and leaked player experiences. What I will tell you as far as instances go, from what I'm to understand, not every world is "instanced" so much as "zoned" The difference being that a game like guildwars would be instanced, where a game like CoH would be "zoned"
Now the zones have been said to be huge enough and have so much content that you could potentially level from 1 - max level (40) without leaving that zone.
Dr.Rock
What I really want to know is can you jump out of the way of a thrown or fired projectile if you are fast enough, as I am sick to death of simple LoS checks and homing projectiles. Without this a bit of twitch in positioning or blocking will still leave ranged fighters limited, as their mobility and ability to take cover are effectively ignored.
Not sure I could play a MMO still limited by the CoX being shot through a wall scenario
From what I'm to understand the game uses LoS checks (line of sight) as you mention, but to what degree is yet to be confirmed. For example, could hiding behind a larger teammate make him the target instead of you? Hmm, I'm not sure, but this is definitely a question to be answered by a developer, or something to wait on when the NDA has lifted. I can say from what I'm to believe, the LoS has been severely tightened so it plays more like a TPS then the old CoH.
As far as dodge and blocks, you are inherently given those powers from your power sets. Maybe it calculates positioning plus skill or maybe not. I'm not sure. I can tell you that you can mix and match defensive powers such as Regeneration/Super Reflexes which may help some and make some fights more interesting.
Dis_Ordur
"What I want to know is whether or not the zones are wide open. Can anyone elaborate?"
I answered this partially above, about the size of each zone. The zones are said to be immense, each zone allowing you to use the full extent of your travel powers. However, there will still be a transit system to move from zone A to zone B, as the zones themselves are all over the place. First you might be in Lemuria (under water) or be in the Canadian Wilderness, so you won't see Zones like.. "chunks" in vanguard or anything like that. Now will there be a long loading screen between which? That I can't answer right now.
Personally, I enjoy PvP ONLY if its good PvP. CoX was not good PvP, whereas I felt guildwars and Warhammer had good PvP. CoX didn't originally have PvP in mind and it was thrown in... and you can clearly tell it was thrown in. After the launch of CoV there were many powerset balance problems which most games have, but I feel CoX's were self imposed. They tried to play the "balance" game, which CO just won't be doing. They stated there will be some powersets that are just more powerful then others, but there won't be a single "Ultimate build"
I don't have anything against games being designed for PvP play, to each his own.
Champions is not, however, being touted as having a pvp focus. It seems to be very much focused on PvE, with acknowlegements made from the begining that the classes are not balanced for PvP. As such, I have no expectation of the game being reviewed from a PvP standpoint.
I responded as I did to the individual blasting the review as he seems to be under the impression that PvP should be treated as a central aspect of all games, even those not promoting themselves as primarily PvP.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
The ability to block just allows you to cut down damage on big moves, you can also dodge certain boss attacks, but dont go into the game expecting it to be counter strike with a cape. There is a lot more interactivity in combat then the average MMO but dont let the idea of faster paced combat scare you away from this title.
So CO is not twitch based but it does depend on you mashing the right button or shoving the joystick the right way at the right instant in time. That's like saying, "I didn't drive home from work in a car, I drove home in a motorized 4 wheeled vehicle smaller than a truck and SUV. But don't call it a car!"
What you describe in your second paragraph fits the definition of a twitch based game; the timing of when you do things matters more here than non-twitch games.
Originally posted by WereTech They abandoned/sold out of CoH because they thought that they were going to be part of something bigger - a Marvel Online game. As far as I can decern, when Marvel dropped the idea of releasing an MMORPG, Cryptic had to do something to do with the work that they had already done. (if someone else has inside info on this, I would be glad to hear it) Too bad that work had nothing to do with the excelent gaming system which is Champions the RPG. I think to some extent Cryptic has begun to realize what some people expect when the Champions name is stuck on something. Cryptic created CoH left it to try to make more money doing something else rather than supporting CoX (I guess they thought it would flop without them?) and have made a mockery of Champions RPG as far as I'm concerned. If it really was Champoins the RPG online, I would be here backing it like crazy.
Here here! Champions is a great system and their 5th edition setting is better than most game settings I've experienced. What Cryptic is doing is just WRONG. It's like when you're a kid and your mother tells you to let the new kid down the street (you know the one who's 10 years old, drools and still wears diapers, and whos house is strangely empty of pets) play with your new toy then watch him slam it against the wall as hard as he can until it breaks into 3 pieces. And you're the one in trouble for making him cry.
I've been following this game pretty much since it was announced. I'm a comic book fan dating back to the early 70's so this genre really appeals to me. I like what I hear about the game so far and plan to try it out. I played CoH for 3 years, but recently quit when my PvP hero was turned to junk by an extremely unpopular complete rewrite of the PvP rules. It would take months to level up a PvP toon and get it all geared up with crafted enhancement sets to be really badass. Months of character development chucked in the can, and the loss of many of the powers that made my character enjoyable, leaves me looking forward to an alternate superhero game. This might be it.
Cant you use 2nd build or respec? Respec gives you a good amount of money for unused enhancements. Sorry to hear your experience. I love cox. This game will probably be very similar.
Good of you to check that out actually, thanks for the thought. The game just changed too much for me with the removal of travel powers in the PvP zones. You know, superjumpers can't superjump, teleporters can't teleport, superspeed powers are no longer super fast--and all the enhancement sets in those powers are now junk, after working a long time to get them. That and how they brought in diminshing returns for heals, buffs and enhancement sets. It's just a different game as a result, and not one that I enjoy. I tried respecing, but couldn't get into the completely different gameplay. It's just not for me. Glad you like it though. I had some really good times.
That said, this game might give me a chance to start fresh with a superhero MMO. I'd really like to try that out I hope Cryptic will shy away from massive revamps to a live game, but time will tell I guess. I'll enjoy the ride while I find it entertaining, and then get off if it stops being fun.
The review sounded very biased towards Champions Online. Oddly enough, you can also pick and choose your targets in CoX. Th e article seemed to imply you can't and that it doesn't make any difference which target you target first in CoX. Neither is the case. Comparing Champions Online to a Graphic Novel and CoX to a Comic book was very revealing as to how much hyping someone is doing. Not that I think that the art in Champions Online is very impressive, but, apparently, the person making the reference doesn't understand that most graphics novels these days were comics before they were ever graphic novels - most notably the most popular/exposed/hyped/rated graphic novel of all times - the Watchmen. I guess it was written by someone that doesn't know what they are talking about. It seems that most of the hype for Champions Online has been in this manner. Of course, as far as I'm concerned, any game that is called Champions should be using the Champoins the RPG rules. Champions Online doesn't. The rules of Champions were so well balanced that there is really no excuse not to use the rules other than being lazy. This game definatly doesn't live up to the legacy of Champions the RPG even from the start. I can't say how the WOW mission structure would be considered innovated at all. I was highly suprised to hear that they were going to release this for the computer market first - espeically how the hype is saying that is is a console game. They would have been much wiser to release it on the console market first and get a loyal following there before taking on the City of Heroes/Villains. It is a shame that the company that helped bring us City of Heroes has to resort to bad-mouthing it in order to try to get subscribers. I was really psyched to hear that Champions the RPG was finally coming to computer/console gaming. Man, is this a big let down. Signature characters do not a great game make. MMORPGs become great destipe the signature characters.
Well tbh, graphic novels only very recently have become collections of comic book series. You know so that the comic company can sell the same stuff twice in a different package. Until this recent marketting trend, graphic novels were another genre; in my view with superior art. Some of these still exist mind you. The 300 graphic novel might be an example of the kind of comparison the review is making. That's just badass art, with a badass story based on an amazing historical event.
Also, I don't see Cryptic bad-mouthing CoX, as you suggest. I see someone else (not Cryptic) writing a review. The different nature of the graphics between CoX and Champions online is pretty obvious I think. They're very different. At this point, I'm not sure which one I prefer, but I want to give the new game a try.
That said, I enjoyed CoX for three years. Cryptic did some excellent work in that game, and it's still there. A lot of the now NCsoft staff were with Cryptic too I believe. Tbh, I think competition in the superhero genre is a good thing. NCsoft, Cryptic and SOE are going to have to compete for our patronage. Hopefully they'll feel inclined to bring their A-game to the table. If one of these companies puts out garbage, or treats their players poorly, gamers will have some other options. I like that. Choice is good.
Personally, I enjoy PvP ONLY if its good PvP. CoX was not good PvP, whereas I felt guildwars and Warhammer had good PvP. CoX didn't originally have PvP in mind and it was thrown in... and you can clearly tell it was thrown in. After the launch of CoV there were many powerset balance problems which most games have, but I feel CoX's were self imposed. They tried to play the "balance" game, which CO just won't be doing. They stated there will be some powersets that are just more powerful then others, but there won't be a single "Ultimate build"
I don't have anything against games being designed for PvP play, to each his own.
Champions is not, however, being touted as having a pvp focus. It seems to be very much focused on PvE, with acknowlegements made from the begining that the classes are not balanced for PvP. As such, I have no expectation of the game being reviewed from a PvP standpoint.
I responded as I did to the individual blasting the review as he seems to be under the impression that PvP should be treated as a central aspect of all games, even those not promoting themselves as primarily PvP.
I agree with you to an extent. PvP is not the sole purpose of many games, in fact, its a very small part of many of the games out there right now. Its been said, and I have said and believe that this was meant to be a PvE game. When I say that I don't mean that I don't plan on PvP'ing in the game. On the contrary, I actually believe that CO might be some absolutely fantastic PvP simply because, its not balanced.
Personally I would love nothing more then to review the game solely on a PvP standpoint. I'd love just to test the game, and write something more in depth then I can provide here, but now is not my time. PvP is part of this game, and although its not the main focus of this game, I always like to think of PvP as that added spice that makes a game great.
Comments
I completely agree about the "graphic novel/comic book" comparison. That is, quite frankly, astonishingly ignorant of an entire medium.
It's like saying driving a new BMW reminds you more of driving an automobile rather than a car. Or the new Terminator movie reminds you more of a film than a movie.
Perhaps the writer should do a wee bit of research, and maybe look up the word "synonym."
The reviewers comment make total sense. In the Standard comic book fare, not a specialized singe series, but your usual run of the mill comic book there is a general and recognized art style. When they do Graphic novels they usually use a different style as a tool to emphasize something, gritty art work to show a dark and dangerous world, hard angular lines or many other tricks to further accentuate the artwork. The reviewer is saying CoX was like your regular comic book, standard and easily recognizable, Champs on the other hand changes the art work slightly giving it a familiar but distinctive look, much like a standard series comic and a graphic novel
And the reviewers intent was completely obvious, unless you're trolling and just looking for something to pick at.
I'm all for being critical, but the negativity so often seen here is disturbing.
"The reviewer said something wrong, so this game is going to suck!! Everybody run!!!!"
Ok, thanks for the info. It was just a few lines but enough for preview but the previewer did not even mention it, and that shows incompetence for someone previewing an MMORPG.
And what ticks me of is that this seem to happen with alot of previews that MMORPG.COM does, they seem to be terribly biased against PvP if they even fail to acknowledge if it exists or not, like they don't care.
Sadly, I was unable to actually experience the pvp elements of the game..hopefully in the future I'll be able to. This was a very limited first impression, and we're hoping to get more information to you all later with regards to further end game play and pvp!
Oh and Lazarus....
"I think what they meant is, you actually have to move to position your character as maybe it doesn't auto position you. For example, you have a guy thats 20 ft away, and you try and use a "smash" ability.. they may be saying, when you use "smash" it doesn't walk you up to them and position you close enough to make the attack. Again this is just speculation on what she may have meant."
Thank you for that clarification...your response was dead on.
Wasn't me who wrote that Seridove. Lets just say though I won't disagree with the above thought he stated.
No signature, I don't have a pen
I can deal with lag issues if it's twitched based targetting. I enjoy that more than playing a boring point-n-click (or Tab) to auto-lock on a target.
I would imagine it would have the same problems Hellgate had, as server desyncs would cause mobs to appear far away on your screen, while in fact they were right next to your character, scoring one-hit critical kills. However this didn't bother me much, and I played in Hardcore mode (meaning one life, you die, you loose your toon and have to reroll it to level 1 again).
It has to be understood by the gamers out there that twitch-based action, though it is fun, will have it's problems with syncronizing all the elements such as players, players in parites, and mob AI and movement.
This also occurs in Neocron, though not to the extent as in Hellgate. Also, and so I've heard from a friend, that this does not happen at all in Fallen Earth, or that he hasn't noticed it yet.
Ultimately, lag and server sync issues will occur, but the real question is if Champion's network code is up to the task of handling it in a way that isn't too destructive and/or detremental to gameplay. I hope for their sakes it handles it "seemlessly" and not use techniques such as aukward, and periodic pausing to allow for sync'ing of information and data packets.
I don't share your preferences. My internet connection works 99% of the time. It's that 1% that's a pain in the ass. And most of the time that 1% happens at the worst moment. CoX does a good job adapting to lag, but a twitch game does not. I do NOT find twitch games to be very fun. If you're off by a second, you're toast and not everyone has the hardware to do that. This sounds like you can be taken down by a spot of bad luck. No thanks, that's too hardcore for me.
Champions online is NOT twich based.
The ability to block just allows you to cut down damage on big moves, you can also dodge certain boss attacks, but dont go into the game expecting it to be counter strike with a cape. There is a lot more interactivity in combat then the average MMO but dont let the idea of faster paced combat scare you away from this title.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
What pisses me off about that review was the totally unfounded bias toward the 'all mighty console gamer'. In my own first hand experience, console gamers suck at mmo's in comparison to keyboard/mouse players when thrown into a fully implemented interface that takes advantage of the keyboard/mouse. Granted, games such as FFIX which is designed from the ground up to be a console platform feel much more comfortable and is easier to use.
The statements lauding the ability to be on easy mode if you happen to have a console gaming background is rather off. The reviewer could have just as easily stated "If you have half a brain and dont dive into content w/out taking a half a second to think first' then you will be just fine. It just ticks me off that he associates common sense with having a console gamer background.
*hides boner*
A physics engine? Even more detail to costumes than CoX?
What I want to know is whether or not the zones are wide open. Can anyone elaborate?
My househould is impatiently waiting for this to drop. I can see us playing this for 3 years + like we did Heroes. Can't wait!
I can't wait for the NDA to be lifted too. So I could tell you how the game is. If you haven't guessed, I'm a preview tester for Champions Online.
Yes there are some good and some bad. At least they are listening enough to know the game needs more polishing. They pushed the release date back.
Wow, I wish we were testing the same game the author was previewing.
I can't wait for them to finally lift the NDA, this thread would easily be up to 50+ pages by now. Sadly my guess is that the NDA will be in place for a looooooong time still. I would bet it's in place till August 20th at the earliest, assuming they don't decide to push the date back again.
Because it's easy to please pvpers, add decent combat and give players a reason to fight like intanced pvp or some world pvp objective and they bash eachothers faces in for months.
It's much harder to please the pve guys that rush through all content right to the buggy untested endgame and bitch about it lacking content and stuff like that.
People that care about shit like quests and pve progression far outwieght those that enjoy pvp (which sucks for someone like me).
because of this most quick first looks focus on pve stuff.
Well they don't have to write elaborate descriptions about PvP but like maybe mention that it exists or not? And if so, is it in the forms of arenas, duels, zones? Whatever, the word PvP didn't even exist in the whole article and that alone I would say be enough to write of this "preview" as biased against PvP because they didn't even bother to mention it.
Well it was a limited hands on. Maybe pvp doesn't come into play until later levels.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
Because it's easy to please pvpers, add decent combat and give players a reason to fight like intanced pvp or some world pvp objective and they bash eachothers faces in for months.
It's much harder to please the pve guys that rush through all content right to the buggy untested endgame and bitch about it lacking content and stuff like that.
People that care about shit like quests and pve progression far outwieght those that enjoy pvp (which sucks for someone like me).
because of this most quick first looks focus on pve stuff.
I tend to disagree that instanced pvp is favorable, the more open the better, I'd think, but purpose, absolutely. Having experienced the poor impressions and lack of immersion and limiting nature i came away with about instanced pvp in potbs and war, i'd rather not see it instanced.
I think the only things that kind of bother me so far about the game are the words "instance" being so prevalent and the term PvP being pretty non-existent in the reviews and previews of the game.
I agree with whoever mentioned it, that heavy instance games just keep people from playing together in groups. Fine for a solo player, but then why are you playing an MMO if you only want to play solo anyway? Kinda defeats the purpose of playing with other people, doesn't it?
Pretty much the same with PvP. What's the point of playing with thousands of other people if you can't test your character against theirs? I know *I* for one don't want to play a game to "bunny bash" for months so I can claim I'm the best bunny-basher around. Wheee, look at me. I killed a cow.
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Can you base some study/ proof or the such to back up your claim that PVP "is one of the biggest aspects of MMORPG"s"?
Or are you just posting your opinion as fact?
Actually, the did stay on with the CoH for quite a while before moving on. As they developed it, they did bring it to the market . How could it get to the market without being created?
You are right, they did not "market" the game.
They abandoned/sold out of CoH because they thought that they were going to be part of something bigger - a Marvel Online game. As far as I can decern, when Marvel dropped the idea of releasing an MMORPG, Cryptic had to do something to do with the work that they had already done. (if someone else has inside info on this, I would be glad to hear it)
Too bad that work had nothing to do with the excelent gaming system which is Champions the RPG.
I think to some extent Cryptic has begun to realize what some people expect when the Champions name is stuck on something.
Cryptic created CoH left it to try to make more money doing something else rather than supporting CoX (I guess they thought it would flop without them?) and have made a mockery of Champions RPG as far as I'm concerned.
If it really was Champoins the RPG online, I would be here backing it like crazy.
Be the fire! Stop staring at it!
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
I would recommend starting with Step #4, as it will make steps 1, 2, and 3 significantly less difficult.
Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.
Source? Oh wait you don't have one... I love people who just make things up
Personally, I enjoy PvP ONLY if its good PvP. CoX was not good PvP, whereas I felt guildwars and Warhammer had good PvP. CoX didn't originally have PvP in mind and it was thrown in... and you can clearly tell it was thrown in. After the launch of CoV there were many powerset balance problems which most games have, but I feel CoX's were self imposed. They tried to play the "balance" game, which CO just won't be doing. They stated there will be some powersets that are just more powerful then others, but there won't be a single "Ultimate build"
More questions answered (As best as I can):
JGMIII
"Well it was a limited hands on. Maybe pvp doesn't come into play until later levels."
Supposedly you can level pretty much from start to finish through PvP in arenas and so forth. They leave it as the players option, although I'm not sure if testers, or how many testers, would play this way as the game is Primarily a PvE game. I would also imagine Cryptic would rather players test the vast levels and missions while testing rather then spend their whole time in PvP-centric areas.
Reno0513
"I agree with whoever mentioned it, that heavy instance games just keep people from playing together in groups. Fine for a solo player, but then why are you playing an MMO if you only want to play solo anyway? Kinda defeats the purpose of playing with other people, doesn't it?"
I won't lie in saying that everything I've heard so far about this game has made me happy. There are a number of issues I've found with this game just by reading dev posts, blogs, and leaked player experiences. What I will tell you as far as instances go, from what I'm to understand, not every world is "instanced" so much as "zoned" The difference being that a game like guildwars would be instanced, where a game like CoH would be "zoned"
Now the zones have been said to be huge enough and have so much content that you could potentially level from 1 - max level (40) without leaving that zone.
Dr.Rock
What I really want to know is can you jump out of the way of a thrown or fired projectile if you are fast enough, as I am sick to death of simple LoS checks and homing projectiles. Without this a bit of twitch in positioning or blocking will still leave ranged fighters limited, as their mobility and ability to take cover are effectively ignored.
Not sure I could play a MMO still limited by the CoX being shot through a wall scenario
From what I'm to understand the game uses LoS checks (line of sight) as you mention, but to what degree is yet to be confirmed. For example, could hiding behind a larger teammate make him the target instead of you? Hmm, I'm not sure, but this is definitely a question to be answered by a developer, or something to wait on when the NDA has lifted. I can say from what I'm to believe, the LoS has been severely tightened so it plays more like a TPS then the old CoH.
As far as dodge and blocks, you are inherently given those powers from your power sets. Maybe it calculates positioning plus skill or maybe not. I'm not sure. I can tell you that you can mix and match defensive powers such as Regeneration/Super Reflexes which may help some and make some fights more interesting.
Dis_Ordur
"What I want to know is whether or not the zones are wide open. Can anyone elaborate?"
I answered this partially above, about the size of each zone. The zones are said to be immense, each zone allowing you to use the full extent of your travel powers. However, there will still be a transit system to move from zone A to zone B, as the zones themselves are all over the place. First you might be in Lemuria (under water) or be in the Canadian Wilderness, so you won't see Zones like.. "chunks" in vanguard or anything like that. Now will there be a long loading screen between which? That I can't answer right now.
Hope that helps!
I don't have anything against games being designed for PvP play, to each his own.
Champions is not, however, being touted as having a pvp focus. It seems to be very much focused on PvE, with acknowlegements made from the begining that the classes are not balanced for PvP. As such, I have no expectation of the game being reviewed from a PvP standpoint.
I responded as I did to the individual blasting the review as he seems to be under the impression that PvP should be treated as a central aspect of all games, even those not promoting themselves as primarily PvP.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
So CO is not twitch based but it does depend on you mashing the right button or shoving the joystick the right way at the right instant in time. That's like saying, "I didn't drive home from work in a car, I drove home in a motorized 4 wheeled vehicle smaller than a truck and SUV. But don't call it a car!"
What you describe in your second paragraph fits the definition of a twitch based game; the timing of when you do things matters more here than non-twitch games.
Here here! Champions is a great system and their 5th edition setting is better than most game settings I've experienced. What Cryptic is doing is just WRONG. It's like when you're a kid and your mother tells you to let the new kid down the street (you know the one who's 10 years old, drools and still wears diapers, and whos house is strangely empty of pets) play with your new toy then watch him slam it against the wall as hard as he can until it breaks into 3 pieces. And you're the one in trouble for making him cry.
Cant you use 2nd build or respec? Respec gives you a good amount of money for unused enhancements. Sorry to hear your experience. I love cox. This game will probably be very similar.
Good of you to check that out actually, thanks for the thought. The game just changed too much for me with the removal of travel powers in the PvP zones. You know, superjumpers can't superjump, teleporters can't teleport, superspeed powers are no longer super fast--and all the enhancement sets in those powers are now junk, after working a long time to get them. That and how they brought in diminshing returns for heals, buffs and enhancement sets. It's just a different game as a result, and not one that I enjoy. I tried respecing, but couldn't get into the completely different gameplay. It's just not for me. Glad you like it though. I had some really good times.
That said, this game might give me a chance to start fresh with a superhero MMO. I'd really like to try that out
I hope Cryptic will shy away from massive revamps to a live game, but time will tell I guess. I'll enjoy the ride while I find it entertaining, and then get off if it stops being fun.
Well tbh, graphic novels only very recently have become collections of comic book series. You know so that the comic company can sell the same stuff twice in a different package. Until this recent marketting trend, graphic novels were another genre; in my view with superior art. Some of these still exist mind you. The 300 graphic novel might be an example of the kind of comparison the review is making. That's just badass art, with a badass story based on an amazing historical event.
Also, I don't see Cryptic bad-mouthing CoX, as you suggest. I see someone else (not Cryptic) writing a review. The different nature of the graphics between CoX and Champions online is pretty obvious I think. They're very different. At this point, I'm not sure which one I prefer, but I want to give the new game a try.
That said, I enjoyed CoX for three years. Cryptic did some excellent work in that game, and it's still there. A lot of the now NCsoft staff were with Cryptic too I believe. Tbh, I think competition in the superhero genre is a good thing. NCsoft, Cryptic and SOE are going to have to compete for our patronage. Hopefully they'll feel inclined to bring their A-game to the table. If one of these companies puts out garbage, or treats their players poorly, gamers will have some other options. I like that. Choice is good.
I did not read the whole article because I don't have time... but i plan to soon.
I just want to say I am very excited for CO.
I don't have anything against games being designed for PvP play, to each his own.
Champions is not, however, being touted as having a pvp focus. It seems to be very much focused on PvE, with acknowlegements made from the begining that the classes are not balanced for PvP. As such, I have no expectation of the game being reviewed from a PvP standpoint.
I responded as I did to the individual blasting the review as he seems to be under the impression that PvP should be treated as a central aspect of all games, even those not promoting themselves as primarily PvP.
I agree with you to an extent. PvP is not the sole purpose of many games, in fact, its a very small part of many of the games out there right now. Its been said, and I have said and believe that this was meant to be a PvE game. When I say that I don't mean that I don't plan on PvP'ing in the game. On the contrary, I actually believe that CO might be some absolutely fantastic PvP simply because, its not balanced.
Personally I would love nothing more then to review the game solely on a PvP standpoint. I'd love just to test the game, and write something more in depth then I can provide here, but now is not my time. PvP is part of this game, and although its not the main focus of this game, I always like to think of PvP as that added spice that makes a game great.