at this point it is obvious what happened. a couple of months before the nge announcement went onto the station launchpad news star wars:battlefields 2 became the best selling star wars game of all time. LA probably made some rather pissed calls to smed bitching wanting to know why a game they had invested so much more into couldnt sell millions. threats were made. like going with another company if soe didnt turn swg around quick. smed orders his dev team to shoot themselves in the foot by hurredly shoestringing the nge code together in an attempt to keep the franchise. it fails horridly. freeman takes the fall. yeah i know some people will say they worked on the nge for months but i dont buy it. anyone who played the nge right when it hit knows better. it had maybe one month of work behind it. tops.
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
at this point it is obvious what happened. a couple of months before the nge announcement went onto the station launchpad news star wars:battlefields 2 became the best selling star wars game of all time. LA probably made some rather pissed calls to smed bitching wanting to know why a game they had invested so much more into couldnt sell millions. threats were made. like going with another company if soe didnt turn swg around quick. smed orders his dev team to shoot themselves in the foot by hurredly shoestringing the nge code together in an attempt to keep the franchise. it fails horridly. freeman takes the fall. yeah i know some people will say they worked on the nge for months but i dont buy it. anyone who played the nge right when it hit knows better. it had maybe one month of work behind it. tops.
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
believe people who worked for soe...................good luck with that.
the CU is here to stay
working as intended
trials of obi-wan an exciting new expansion with content for all professions
we're working on revamping smuggler
we're working on revamping ranger
SWG wont launch until its ready
jedi not unlockable at launch
starter kit - SOE tells us the starter kit is an eroneous listing and will be removed
It's not something we can control.
It's a lot harder to code that you would think.
Most of our staff is working on the JTL expansion.
That has to wait until the Combat Rebalance.
It was never meant to work that way.
Just because we haven't been enforcing it doesn't mean it's allowed.
Test Center doesn't allow us to test every scenario.
It's your video card.
It's your video card drivers.
It's your version of Direct X.
All MMOGs have significant player turnover.
Delete your .dll files and youll be able to log in fine.
We had to upgrade the Launchpad, even if it means some people can no longer log in.
at this point it is obvious what happened. a couple of months before the nge announcement went onto the station launchpad news star wars:battlefields 2 became the best selling star wars game of all time. LA probably made some rather pissed calls to smed bitching wanting to know why a game they had invested so much more into couldnt sell millions. threats were made. like going with another company if soe didnt turn swg around quick. smed orders his dev team to shoot themselves in the foot by hurredly shoestringing the nge code together in an attempt to keep the franchise. it fails horridly. freeman takes the fall. yeah i know some people will say they worked on the nge for months but i dont buy it. anyone who played the nge right when it hit knows better. it had maybe one month of work behind it. tops.
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
the CU is here to stay... how's that working out for you?
at this point it is obvious what happened. a couple of months before the nge announcement went onto the station launchpad news star wars:battlefields 2 became the best selling star wars game of all time. LA probably made some rather pissed calls to smed bitching wanting to know why a game they had invested so much more into couldnt sell millions. threats were made. like going with another company if soe didnt turn swg around quick. smed orders his dev team to shoot themselves in the foot by hurredly shoestringing the nge code together in an attempt to keep the franchise. it fails horridly. freeman takes the fall. yeah i know some people will say they worked on the nge for months but i dont buy it. anyone who played the nge right when it hit knows better. it had maybe one month of work behind it. tops.
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
believe people who worked for soe...................good luck with that.
the CU is here to stay
working as intended
trials of obi-wan an exciting new expansion with content for all professions
we're working on revamping smuggler
we're working on revamping ranger
SWG wont launch until its ready
jedi not unlockable at launch
starter kit - SOE tells us the starter kit is an eroneous listing and will be removed
It's not something we can control.
It's a lot harder to code that you would think.
Most of our staff is working on the JTL expansion.
That has to wait until the Combat Rebalance.
It was never meant to work that way.
Just because we haven't been enforcing it doesn't mean it's allowed.
Test Center doesn't allow us to test every scenario.
It's your video card.
It's your video card drivers.
It's your version of Direct X.
All MMOGs have significant player turnover.
Delete your .dll files and youll be able to log in fine.
We had to upgrade the Launchpad, even if it means some people can no longer log in.
Doh!
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
remember while soe was responsible for day-to-day management/changes at the end of the day LA could have nixed the cu/nge as they have the final say in all things star wars. that's why i dont understand why so many are all a twitter over swtor so soon. you are still dealing with LA. oh, and a company owned by EA. two bad things that wont go great together.
True, but Bioware havn't bent over so far. After all their best selling games are they in a way better position than SOE ever was, SOE did EQ, that is their only truly best selling game While Bioware have 3 huge successes.
List of bestseller games and the numbers sold:
# EverQuest (3.5 million)
against:
# Baldur's Gate (2 million)
# Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (2 million)
# Neverwinter Nights (2 million)
Still, I pray and hope that LA keeps it's dirty hands away from TOR, they did have a big part in what happened to SWG. Anyways was the problem with SWG that it didn't sell enough for LA and SOE the first time, I don't think TOR will have that problem, Bioware do have many faithful fans just like Blizzard, SOE have just a few.
remember while soe was responsible for day-to-day management/changes at the end of the day LA could have nixed the cu/nge as they have the final say in all things star wars. that's why i dont understand why so many are all a twitter over swtor so soon. you are still dealing with LA. oh, and a company owned by EA. two bad things that wont go great together.
True, but Bioware havn't bent over so far. After all their best selling games are they in a way better position than SOE ever was, SOE did EQ, that is their only truly best selling game While Bioware have 3 huge successes.
List of bestseller games and the numbers sold:
# EverQuest (3.5 million)
against:
# Baldur's Gate (2 million)
# Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (2 million)
# Neverwinter Nights (2 million)
Still, I pray and hope that LA keeps it's dirty hands away from TOR, they did have a big part in what happened to SWG. Anyways was the problem with SWG that it didn't sell enough for LA and SOE the first time, I don't think TOR will have that problem, Bioware do have many faithful fans just like Blizzard, SOE have just a few.
Do you really think Bioware would dump millions into development without some agreement with LA that SWG would lose it's license upon release? I would also think that LA has agreed with SOE not to make that public until the time comes.
The NGE is insignificant now. Many current NGErs will move on to play TOR leaving SOE ready to MxO SWG.
at this point it is obvious what happened. a couple of months before the nge announcement went onto the station launchpad news star wars:battlefields 2 became the best selling star wars game of all time. LA probably made some rather pissed calls to smed bitching wanting to know why a game they had invested so much more into couldnt sell millions. threats were made. like going with another company if soe didnt turn swg around quick. smed orders his dev team to shoot themselves in the foot by hurredly shoestringing the nge code together in an attempt to keep the franchise. it fails horridly. freeman takes the fall. yeah i know some people will say they worked on the nge for months but i dont buy it. anyone who played the nge right when it hit knows better. it had maybe one month of work behind it. tops.
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
believe people who worked for soe...................good luck with that.
the CU is here to stay
working as intended
trials of obi-wan an exciting new expansion with content for all professions
we're working on revamping smuggler
we're working on revamping ranger
SWG wont launch until its ready
jedi not unlockable at launch
starter kit - SOE tells us the starter kit is an eroneous listing and will be removed
It's not something we can control.
It's a lot harder to code that you would think.
Most of our staff is working on the JTL expansion.
That has to wait until the Combat Rebalance.
It was never meant to work that way.
Just because we haven't been enforcing it doesn't mean it's allowed.
Test Center doesn't allow us to test every scenario.
It's your video card.
It's your video card drivers.
It's your version of Direct X.
All MMOGs have significant player turnover.
Delete your .dll files and youll be able to log in fine.
We had to upgrade the Launchpad, even if it means some people can no longer log in.
So you think a mea culpa after the fact when they have nothing to gain by taking responsibility for the NGE is the same as corporate mouthpieces being in full spin mode trying to deny they made a mistake? How does this help the credibility of a theory you pulled out of your ass?
at this point it is obvious what happened. a couple of months before the nge announcement went onto the station launchpad news star wars:battlefields 2 became the best selling star wars game of all time. LA probably made some rather pissed calls to smed bitching wanting to know why a game they had invested so much more into couldnt sell millions. threats were made. like going with another company if soe didnt turn swg around quick. smed orders his dev team to shoot themselves in the foot by hurredly shoestringing the nge code together in an attempt to keep the franchise. it fails horridly. freeman takes the fall. yeah i know some people will say they worked on the nge for months but i dont buy it. anyone who played the nge right when it hit knows better. it had maybe one month of work behind it. tops.
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
believe people who worked for soe...................good luck with that.
the CU is here to stay
working as intended
trials of obi-wan an exciting new expansion with content for all professions
we're working on revamping smuggler
we're working on revamping ranger
SWG wont launch until its ready
jedi not unlockable at launch
starter kit - SOE tells us the starter kit is an eroneous listing and will be removed
It's not something we can control.
It's a lot harder to code that you would think.
Most of our staff is working on the JTL expansion.
That has to wait until the Combat Rebalance.
It was never meant to work that way.
Just because we haven't been enforcing it doesn't mean it's allowed.
Test Center doesn't allow us to test every scenario.
It's your video card.
It's your video card drivers.
It's your version of Direct X.
All MMOGs have significant player turnover.
Delete your .dll files and youll be able to log in fine.
We had to upgrade the Launchpad, even if it means some people can no longer log in.
So you think a mea culpa after the fact when they have nothing to gain by taking responsibility for the NGE is the same as corporate mouthpieces being in full spin mode trying to deny they made a mistake? How does this help the credibility of a theory you pulled out of your ass?
That's a pretty good list of all the b.s. in the sandwich we were served via SWG. Regarding the theory. Here's a comparison of its points with public disclosures by folks at SOE:
Theory: LucasArts pushed for the NGE in light of the Battlefield success.
Disclosure by Rubenfield: Rubenfield said that they were accused of dropping the ball on a potential gold mine IP (paraphrased from his blog). He never mentioned Battlefield, but the NGE combat changes had a very Battlefield "feel" to them with the move to a targetting reticule and an fps style of game. The NGE just didn't work, and it wasn't the game people were paying for. Still, a Battlefield connection appears speculative. Reasonable, but speculative.
Theory: NGE was shoestringed together in a month.
Disclosure: It was indeed thrown together very quickly. According to Rubenfield, he and his team threw it all together in 2-3 months of "crunch" time. For a complete redesign of an MMO, 2-3 months is no time at all. It's no wonder combat, chat and movement didn' work at release. An extra month probably wouldn't have made much of a difference. It was a massive undertaking, and very little time was devoted to it. They must have really got themselves into some kind of tunnel vision state to think this could ever work.
As for taking the fall, one of the former SOE devs indicated, rightly I think, that the managers of the game (Smed at SOE and Ward at LucasArts) were ultimately responsible for what happened. He pointed out that it was their jobs to make the big decisions, and I think he was correct.
This brings me full circle to postive signs on the LucasArts side of things. I never really liked what seemed to happen under Ward's leadership. I'm thinking of SWG specifically, but wasn't he in charge for the KOTOR 2 bug-infested release? Anytime you have a catastrophe like what happened in SWG, I think a leadership review is called for. LucasArts seems to have done this.
As for NGE was called for by LA, I doubt it. Employees that quit, were fired, let go, etc etc have really no motive to lie, anymore. In fact, one would think that they would revel in "it's not my fault, so and so did it".
All I can do is as other have done, connect the dots. Rubenfield did say they "screwed" up an IP by not haveing sub numbers in the millions. That may, indeed, have came from LA. SOE's way to fix it? CHANGE the game after launch. Rubenfield made referenced to that also. As Arc said, LA did OK that so they bore the brunt of that action.
As we all know, now, LA bailed on SWG in Dec 05, post NGE. When they seen all the negative press, negative game sites, and mass exodus for SWG, it was probably the only decision they had left. So, they went to bioware, who had sucess with their IP and started designing TOR. SWG was put on maintenance mode, via LA, and left to keep "somewhat" a sub base for TOR. SOE did know of SW:TOR way before the official anouncement as I got as much from Lorin Jameson via tel-con. I'm almost sure that SOE was told that as soon as TOR releases, SWG is gone. SOE, in a last ditch effort to save their game, made a counter-proposal to LA that if they could get SWG profitable again, and able to pay their licence fees, again, that both games could exist at the same time. I believe LA gave them the chance and this time SOE's efforts were not to go after the millions that WoW has, it was to simply get the "vets" back. From C6CD to GU-Whatever, there was no large push for new subs, it was just a push to bring "vets" back. Lorin Jameson kept stateing this fact, over and over and over. Free months, (Many free months) for vets, sub-systems quasi-like the old systems, creature handler uhhhhhh, Beastmaster, increased NPC difficulty, etc etc. However, this CHANGE backfired on them also. The ones that played the NGE left, now, again, in droves, and the "vets" came and looked, decided that they wanted more of their old game back than a few parts in a NGE wrapper, made a few dishearting post (to SOE) and took off again. They failed, again, to realise what Rubenfield made clear in his blog. You can't have major game CHANGES after launch. A massive patch CHANGE or if it's even done in monthly installments. It is interesting to note that the formal anouncement for TOR came after the new NGE (C6CD thru GU-Whatever) had failed to produce. Probably part of the package agreement between SOE and LA.
I would imagine, that now with SWG population being what it is, ("3004 Unique players" in battle fields on 1st day new content, over 26 servers, in a 24 hour period) that SOE has sealed it's fate with SWG and LA. Smedly even made the comment "sunset" in an interview. SWG is probably in maintenance mode, with both LA and SOE now, until the release of SW:TOR.
I would imagine, that now with SWG population being what it is, ("3004 Unique players" in battle fields on 1st day new content, over 26 servers, in a 24 hour period) that SOE has sealed it's fate with SWG and LA. Smedly even made the comment "sunset" in an interview. SWG is probably in maintenance mode, with both LA and SOE now, until the release of SW:TOR.
After nearly 3 years of regular vet trials it seems as though SoE may have given up on trying to get people back.
Perhaps this means nothing but I can't help but wonder whether this is just more "writing on the wall".
I would imagine, that now with SWG population being what it is, ("3004 Unique players" in battle fields on 1st day new content, over 26 servers, in a 24 hour period) that SOE has sealed it's fate with SWG and LA. Smedly even made the comment "sunset" in an interview. SWG is probably in maintenance mode, with both LA and SOE now, until the release of SW:TOR.
After nearly 3 years of regular vet trials it seems as though SoE may have given up on trying to get people back.
Perhaps this means nothing but I can't help but wonder whether this is just more "writing on the wall".
i think its clear
we showed $OE that we vets won the war and now we have to show bioware that tor must be a pre-cu game
i think its clear we showed $OE that we vets won the war and now we have to show bioware that tor must be a pre-cu game
TOR is its own game, made by its own company. This isn't SWG2. Leave your SWG baggage at the door.
I'm also more interested in a new start, with a new game, made by a new company. SWG had it's high points for me, and I'll always remember those, but I'm not at all looking to see it resurrected in TOR.
i think its clear we showed $OE that we vets won the war and now we have to show bioware that tor must be a pre-cu game
TOR is its own game, made by its own company. This isn't SWG2. Leave your SWG baggage at the door.
I'm also more interested in a new start, with a new game, made by a new company. SWG had it's high points for me, and I'll always remember those, but I'm not at all looking to see it resurrected in TOR.
Only thing that worries me a bit is the micro aspect that EA let out.
It's amazing the Blizzard, originally RTS specialists, were able to easily beat SOE at their own game. I do admit I am interested in trying out The Agency.
I wouldn't have called Blizzard RTS specialists, especially in the 90s. Their other flagship franchise, Diablo, had been well received in every version they put out. That falls in the action RPG aspect (and I do use the term "RPG" with Diablo very loosely).
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
i think its clear we showed $OE that we vets won the war and now we have to show bioware that tor must be a pre-cu game
TOR is its own game, made by its own company. This isn't SWG2. Leave your SWG baggage at the door.
I'm also more interested in a new start, with a new game, made by a new company. SWG had it's high points for me, and I'll always remember those, but I'm not at all looking to see it resurrected in TOR.
I'm in agreement there. I LOVED Pre-CU. LOVED it! But what really made the NGE = The Devil for me was the fact that it was not functional, and it was so graphically forced upon us without any lubrication at all, and frankly, it was not what we were already paying for.
Even if BioWare's TOR has that 'fast action combat' and goes for the whole 'starwarsy & iconic' crap that the NGE was all about, you know it will in all likelyhood be done well, and we'll have time to see it coming (ie:not get screwed by it).
In a nutshell, I'll play it. Probably like it. Hopefully LOVE it..
at this point it is obvious what happened. a couple of months before the nge announcement went onto the station launchpad news star wars:battlefields 2 became the best selling star wars game of all time. LA probably made some rather pissed calls to smed bitching wanting to know why a game they had invested so much more into couldnt sell millions. threats were made. like going with another company if soe didnt turn swg around quick. smed orders his dev team to shoot themselves in the foot by hurredly shoestringing the nge code together in an attempt to keep the franchise. it fails horridly. freeman takes the fall. yeah i know some people will say they worked on the nge for months but i dont buy it. anyone who played the nge right when it hit knows better. it had maybe one month of work behind it. tops.
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
believe people who worked for soe...................good luck with that.
the CU is here to stay
working as intended
trials of obi-wan an exciting new expansion with content for all professions
we're working on revamping smuggler
we're working on revamping ranger
SWG wont launch until its ready
jedi not unlockable at launch
starter kit - SOE tells us the starter kit is an eroneous listing and will be removed
It's not something we can control.
It's a lot harder to code that you would think.
Most of our staff is working on the JTL expansion.
That has to wait until the Combat Rebalance.
It was never meant to work that way.
Just because we haven't been enforcing it doesn't mean it's allowed.
Test Center doesn't allow us to test every scenario.
It's your video card.
It's your video card drivers.
It's your version of Direct X.
All MMOGs have significant player turnover.
Delete your .dll files and youll be able to log in fine.
We had to upgrade the Launchpad, even if it means some people can no longer log in.
So you think a mea culpa after the fact when they have nothing to gain by taking responsibility for the NGE is the same as corporate mouthpieces being in full spin mode trying to deny they made a mistake? How does this help the credibility of a theory you pulled out of your ass?
That's a pretty good list of all the b.s. in the sandwich we were served via SWG. Regarding the theory. Here's a comparison of its points with public disclosures by folks at SOE:
Theory: LucasArts pushed for the NGE in light of the Battlefield success.
Disclosure by Rubenfield: Rubenfield said that they were accused of dropping the ball on a potential gold mine IP (paraphrased from his blog). He never mentioned Battlefield, but the NGE combat changes had a very Battlefield "feel" to them with the move to a targetting reticule and an fps style of game. The NGE just didn't work, and it wasn't the game people were paying for. Still, a Battlefield connection appears speculative. Reasonable, but speculative.
Theory: NGE was shoestringed together in a month.
Disclosure: It was indeed thrown together very quickly. According to Rubenfield, he and his team threw it all together in 2-3 months of "crunch" time. For a complete redesign of an MMO, 2-3 months is no time at all. It's no wonder combat, chat and movement didn' work at release. An extra month probably wouldn't have made much of a difference. It was a massive undertaking, and very little time was devoted to it. They must have really got themselves into some kind of tunnel vision state to think this could ever work.
As for taking the fall, one of the former SOE devs indicated, rightly I think, that the managers of the game (Smed at SOE and Ward at LucasArts) were ultimately responsible for what happened. He pointed out that it was their jobs to make the big decisions, and I think he was correct.
This brings me full circle to postive signs on the LucasArts side of things. I never really liked what seemed to happen under Ward's leadership. I'm thinking of SWG specifically, but wasn't he in charge for the KOTOR 2 bug-infested release? Anytime you have a catastrophe like what happened in SWG, I think a leadership review is called for. LucasArts seems to have done this.
lol fans really get testy when i pull out the battlefields scenario. why do you think that is arc? i think its because the truth hurts.
lol fans really get testy when i pull out the battlefields scenario. why do you think that is arc? i think its because the truth hurts.
I'm not a fan of either company, but I don't see the point in someone like Rubenfield taking responsibility for a reviled system like the NGE if it was LA who ordered it. He has no reason to cover for them now. That doesn't mean there isn't a similarity in the NGE style and Battlefield. But it's also plausible they tried to copy Battlefield on their own, although this entire idea is purely speculative on your part since none of the former devs have ever mentioned LA or Battlefield as reasons for the NGE. There are any number of valid criticisms of LA, but making up hare-brained assumptions that have no basis in fact isn't one of them.
lol fans really get testy when i pull out the battlefields scenario. why do you think that is arc? i think its because the truth hurts.
I'm not a fan of either company, but I don't see the point in someone like Rubenfield taking responsibility for a reviled system like the NGE if it was LA who ordered it. He has no reason to cover for them now. That doesn't mean there isn't a similarity in the NGE style and Battlefield. But it's also plausible they tried to copy Battlefield on their own, although this entire idea is purely speculative on your part since none of the former devs have ever mentioned LA or Battlefield as reasons for the NGE. There are any number of valid criticisms of LA, but making up hare-brained assumptions that have no basis in fact isn't one of them.
Yeah, we have no disclosures about a Battlefield connection. Same time as Battlefield, similar feel to Battlefield (if it was busted), but no disclosure. Honestly, I can live with the uncertainty ^_^. We may never no for sure if it influenced the process.
Also, I doubt we'll ever read a quote of exactly what LucasArts said to SOE about the original game or the CU. We've heard they weren't happy with the population. We know they wanted something done about it. We know Rubenfield and some other devs cooked up the NGE as a response. We know LucasArts gave it the green light. We're missing some fine print probably, but I'm okay with that. Still speculating is fun at times lol.
Comments
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
believe people who worked for soe...................good luck with that.
the CU is here to stay
working as intended
trials of obi-wan an exciting new expansion with content for all professions
we're working on revamping smuggler
we're working on revamping ranger
SWG wont launch until its ready
jedi not unlockable at launch
starter kit - SOE tells us the starter kit is an eroneous listing and will be removed
It's not something we can control.
It's a lot harder to code that you would think.
Most of our staff is working on the JTL expansion.
That has to wait until the Combat Rebalance.
It was never meant to work that way.
Just because we haven't been enforcing it doesn't mean it's allowed.
Test Center doesn't allow us to test every scenario.
It's your video card.
It's your video card drivers.
It's your version of Direct X.
All MMOGs have significant player turnover.
Delete your .dll files and youll be able to log in fine.
We had to upgrade the Launchpad, even if it means some people can no longer log in.
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
the CU is here to stay... how's that working out for you?
I'd say not too well.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
believe people who worked for soe...................good luck with that.
the CU is here to stay
working as intended
trials of obi-wan an exciting new expansion with content for all professions
we're working on revamping smuggler
we're working on revamping ranger
SWG wont launch until its ready
jedi not unlockable at launch
starter kit - SOE tells us the starter kit is an eroneous listing and will be removed
It's not something we can control.
It's a lot harder to code that you would think.
Most of our staff is working on the JTL expansion.
That has to wait until the Combat Rebalance.
It was never meant to work that way.
Just because we haven't been enforcing it doesn't mean it's allowed.
Test Center doesn't allow us to test every scenario.
It's your video card.
It's your video card drivers.
It's your version of Direct X.
All MMOGs have significant player turnover.
Delete your .dll files and youll be able to log in fine.
We had to upgrade the Launchpad, even if it means some people can no longer log in.
Doh!
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
True, but Bioware havn't bent over so far. After all their best selling games are they in a way better position than SOE ever was, SOE did EQ, that is their only truly best selling game While Bioware have 3 huge successes.
List of bestseller games and the numbers sold:
# EverQuest (3.5 million)
against:
# Baldur's Gate (2 million)
# Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (2 million)
# Neverwinter Nights (2 million)
Still, I pray and hope that LA keeps it's dirty hands away from TOR, they did have a big part in what happened to SWG. Anyways was the problem with SWG that it didn't sell enough for LA and SOE the first time, I don't think TOR will have that problem, Bioware do have many faithful fans just like Blizzard, SOE have just a few.
True, but Bioware havn't bent over so far. After all their best selling games are they in a way better position than SOE ever was, SOE did EQ, that is their only truly best selling game While Bioware have 3 huge successes.
List of bestseller games and the numbers sold:
# EverQuest (3.5 million)
against:
# Baldur's Gate (2 million)
# Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (2 million)
# Neverwinter Nights (2 million)
Still, I pray and hope that LA keeps it's dirty hands away from TOR, they did have a big part in what happened to SWG. Anyways was the problem with SWG that it didn't sell enough for LA and SOE the first time, I don't think TOR will have that problem, Bioware do have many faithful fans just like Blizzard, SOE have just a few.
now I'm going to go play some Baldur's gate
Do you really think Bioware would dump millions into development without some agreement with LA that SWG would lose it's license upon release?
I would also think that LA has agreed with SOE not to make that public until the time comes.
The NGE is insignificant now. Many current NGErs will move on to play TOR leaving SOE ready to MxO SWG.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
believe people who worked for soe...................good luck with that.
the CU is here to stay
working as intended
trials of obi-wan an exciting new expansion with content for all professions
we're working on revamping smuggler
we're working on revamping ranger
SWG wont launch until its ready
jedi not unlockable at launch
starter kit - SOE tells us the starter kit is an eroneous listing and will be removed
It's not something we can control.
It's a lot harder to code that you would think.
Most of our staff is working on the JTL expansion.
That has to wait until the Combat Rebalance.
It was never meant to work that way.
Just because we haven't been enforcing it doesn't mean it's allowed.
Test Center doesn't allow us to test every scenario.
It's your video card.
It's your video card drivers.
It's your version of Direct X.
All MMOGs have significant player turnover.
Delete your .dll files and youll be able to log in fine.
We had to upgrade the Launchpad, even if it means some people can no longer log in.
So you think a mea culpa after the fact when they have nothing to gain by taking responsibility for the NGE is the same as corporate mouthpieces being in full spin mode trying to deny they made a mistake? How does this help the credibility of a theory you pulled out of your ass?
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
believe people who worked for soe...................good luck with that.
the CU is here to stay
working as intended
trials of obi-wan an exciting new expansion with content for all professions
we're working on revamping smuggler
we're working on revamping ranger
SWG wont launch until its ready
jedi not unlockable at launch
starter kit - SOE tells us the starter kit is an eroneous listing and will be removed
It's not something we can control.
It's a lot harder to code that you would think.
Most of our staff is working on the JTL expansion.
That has to wait until the Combat Rebalance.
It was never meant to work that way.
Just because we haven't been enforcing it doesn't mean it's allowed.
Test Center doesn't allow us to test every scenario.
It's your video card.
It's your video card drivers.
It's your version of Direct X.
All MMOGs have significant player turnover.
Delete your .dll files and youll be able to log in fine.
We had to upgrade the Launchpad, even if it means some people can no longer log in.
So you think a mea culpa after the fact when they have nothing to gain by taking responsibility for the NGE is the same as corporate mouthpieces being in full spin mode trying to deny they made a mistake? How does this help the credibility of a theory you pulled out of your ass?
That's a pretty good list of all the b.s. in the sandwich we were served via SWG. Regarding the theory. Here's a comparison of its points with public disclosures by folks at SOE:
Theory: LucasArts pushed for the NGE in light of the Battlefield success.
Disclosure by Rubenfield: Rubenfield said that they were accused of dropping the ball on a potential gold mine IP (paraphrased from his blog). He never mentioned Battlefield, but the NGE combat changes had a very Battlefield "feel" to them with the move to a targetting reticule and an fps style of game. The NGE just didn't work, and it wasn't the game people were paying for. Still, a Battlefield connection appears speculative. Reasonable, but speculative.
Theory: NGE was shoestringed together in a month.
Disclosure: It was indeed thrown together very quickly. According to Rubenfield, he and his team threw it all together in 2-3 months of "crunch" time. For a complete redesign of an MMO, 2-3 months is no time at all. It's no wonder combat, chat and movement didn' work at release. An extra month probably wouldn't have made much of a difference. It was a massive undertaking, and very little time was devoted to it. They must have really got themselves into some kind of tunnel vision state to think this could ever work.
As for taking the fall, one of the former SOE devs indicated, rightly I think, that the managers of the game (Smed at SOE and Ward at LucasArts) were ultimately responsible for what happened. He pointed out that it was their jobs to make the big decisions, and I think he was correct.
This brings me full circle to postive signs on the LucasArts side of things. I never really liked what seemed to happen under Ward's leadership. I'm thinking of SWG specifically, but wasn't he in charge for the KOTOR 2 bug-infested release? Anytime you have a catastrophe like what happened in SWG, I think a leadership review is called for. LucasArts seems to have done this.
As for NGE was called for by LA, I doubt it. Employees that quit, were fired, let go, etc etc have really no motive to lie, anymore. In fact, one would think that they would revel in "it's not my fault, so and so did it".
All I can do is as other have done, connect the dots. Rubenfield did say they "screwed" up an IP by not haveing sub numbers in the millions. That may, indeed, have came from LA. SOE's way to fix it? CHANGE the game after launch. Rubenfield made referenced to that also. As Arc said, LA did OK that so they bore the brunt of that action.
As we all know, now, LA bailed on SWG in Dec 05, post NGE. When they seen all the negative press, negative game sites, and mass exodus for SWG, it was probably the only decision they had left. So, they went to bioware, who had sucess with their IP and started designing TOR. SWG was put on maintenance mode, via LA, and left to keep "somewhat" a sub base for TOR. SOE did know of SW:TOR way before the official anouncement as I got as much from Lorin Jameson via tel-con. I'm almost sure that SOE was told that as soon as TOR releases, SWG is gone. SOE, in a last ditch effort to save their game, made a counter-proposal to LA that if they could get SWG profitable again, and able to pay their licence fees, again, that both games could exist at the same time. I believe LA gave them the chance and this time SOE's efforts were not to go after the millions that WoW has, it was to simply get the "vets" back. From C6CD to GU-Whatever, there was no large push for new subs, it was just a push to bring "vets" back. Lorin Jameson kept stateing this fact, over and over and over. Free months, (Many free months) for vets, sub-systems quasi-like the old systems, creature handler uhhhhhh, Beastmaster, increased NPC difficulty, etc etc. However, this CHANGE backfired on them also. The ones that played the NGE left, now, again, in droves, and the "vets" came and looked, decided that they wanted more of their old game back than a few parts in a NGE wrapper, made a few dishearting post (to SOE) and took off again. They failed, again, to realise what Rubenfield made clear in his blog. You can't have major game CHANGES after launch. A massive patch CHANGE or if it's even done in monthly installments. It is interesting to note that the formal anouncement for TOR came after the new NGE (C6CD thru GU-Whatever) had failed to produce. Probably part of the package agreement between SOE and LA.
I would imagine, that now with SWG population being what it is, ("3004 Unique players" in battle fields on 1st day new content, over 26 servers, in a 24 hour period) that SOE has sealed it's fate with SWG and LA. Smedly even made the comment "sunset" in an interview. SWG is probably in maintenance mode, with both LA and SOE now, until the release of SW:TOR.
After nearly 3 years of regular vet trials it seems as though SoE may have given up on trying to get people back.
Perhaps this means nothing but I can't help but wonder whether this is just more "writing on the wall".
Yea asked for it, so now the pay for it - thats the rules
After nearly 3 years of regular vet trials it seems as though SoE may have given up on trying to get people back.
Perhaps this means nothing but I can't help but wonder whether this is just more "writing on the wall".
i think its clear
we showed $OE that we vets won the war and now we have to show bioware that tor must be a pre-cu game
TOR is its own game, made by its own company. This isn't SWG2. Leave your SWG baggage at the door.
TOR is its own game, made by its own company. This isn't SWG2. Leave your SWG baggage at the door.
I'm also more interested in a new start, with a new game, made by a new company. SWG had it's high points for me, and I'll always remember those, but I'm not at all looking to see it resurrected in TOR.
it will be interesting to see all the differences....as well as some of the similarities there will be.
--------
Ten Golden Rules Of Videogame Fanboyism
"SOE has probably united more gamers in hatred than Blizzard has subs"...daelnor
TOR is its own game, made by its own company. This isn't SWG2. Leave your SWG baggage at the door.
I'm also more interested in a new start, with a new game, made by a new company. SWG had it's high points for me, and I'll always remember those, but I'm not at all looking to see it resurrected in TOR.
Only thing that worries me a bit is the micro aspect that EA let out.
It's amazing that Blizzard, originally RTS specialists, were able to easily beat SOE at their own game.
I do admit I am interested in trying out The Agency.
I wouldn't have called Blizzard RTS specialists, especially in the 90s. Their other flagship franchise, Diablo, had been well received in every version they put out. That falls in the action RPG aspect (and I do use the term "RPG" with Diablo very loosely).
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
TOR is its own game, made by its own company. This isn't SWG2. Leave your SWG baggage at the door.
I'm also more interested in a new start, with a new game, made by a new company. SWG had it's high points for me, and I'll always remember those, but I'm not at all looking to see it resurrected in TOR.
I'm in agreement there. I LOVED Pre-CU. LOVED it! But what really made the NGE = The Devil for me was the fact that it was not functional, and it was so graphically forced upon us without any lubrication at all, and frankly, it was not what we were already paying for.
Even if BioWare's TOR has that 'fast action combat' and goes for the whole 'starwarsy & iconic' crap that the NGE was all about, you know it will in all likelyhood be done well, and we'll have time to see it coming (ie:not get screwed by it).
In a nutshell, I'll play it. Probably like it. Hopefully LOVE it..
hmmm, should I believe your half-baked theories you pulled out of your butt, or the written accounts of people who worked for SOE at the time and designed the NGE?
believe people who worked for soe...................good luck with that.
the CU is here to stay
working as intended
trials of obi-wan an exciting new expansion with content for all professions
we're working on revamping smuggler
we're working on revamping ranger
SWG wont launch until its ready
jedi not unlockable at launch
starter kit - SOE tells us the starter kit is an eroneous listing and will be removed
It's not something we can control.
It's a lot harder to code that you would think.
Most of our staff is working on the JTL expansion.
That has to wait until the Combat Rebalance.
It was never meant to work that way.
Just because we haven't been enforcing it doesn't mean it's allowed.
Test Center doesn't allow us to test every scenario.
It's your video card.
It's your video card drivers.
It's your version of Direct X.
All MMOGs have significant player turnover.
Delete your .dll files and youll be able to log in fine.
We had to upgrade the Launchpad, even if it means some people can no longer log in.
So you think a mea culpa after the fact when they have nothing to gain by taking responsibility for the NGE is the same as corporate mouthpieces being in full spin mode trying to deny they made a mistake? How does this help the credibility of a theory you pulled out of your ass?
That's a pretty good list of all the b.s. in the sandwich we were served via SWG. Regarding the theory. Here's a comparison of its points with public disclosures by folks at SOE:
Theory: LucasArts pushed for the NGE in light of the Battlefield success.
Disclosure by Rubenfield: Rubenfield said that they were accused of dropping the ball on a potential gold mine IP (paraphrased from his blog). He never mentioned Battlefield, but the NGE combat changes had a very Battlefield "feel" to them with the move to a targetting reticule and an fps style of game. The NGE just didn't work, and it wasn't the game people were paying for. Still, a Battlefield connection appears speculative. Reasonable, but speculative.
Theory: NGE was shoestringed together in a month.
Disclosure: It was indeed thrown together very quickly. According to Rubenfield, he and his team threw it all together in 2-3 months of "crunch" time. For a complete redesign of an MMO, 2-3 months is no time at all. It's no wonder combat, chat and movement didn' work at release. An extra month probably wouldn't have made much of a difference. It was a massive undertaking, and very little time was devoted to it. They must have really got themselves into some kind of tunnel vision state to think this could ever work.
As for taking the fall, one of the former SOE devs indicated, rightly I think, that the managers of the game (Smed at SOE and Ward at LucasArts) were ultimately responsible for what happened. He pointed out that it was their jobs to make the big decisions, and I think he was correct.
This brings me full circle to postive signs on the LucasArts side of things. I never really liked what seemed to happen under Ward's leadership. I'm thinking of SWG specifically, but wasn't he in charge for the KOTOR 2 bug-infested release? Anytime you have a catastrophe like what happened in SWG, I think a leadership review is called for. LucasArts seems to have done this.
lol fans really get testy when i pull out the battlefields scenario. why do you think that is arc? i think its because the truth hurts.
I'm not a fan of either company, but I don't see the point in someone like Rubenfield taking responsibility for a reviled system like the NGE if it was LA who ordered it. He has no reason to cover for them now. That doesn't mean there isn't a similarity in the NGE style and Battlefield. But it's also plausible they tried to copy Battlefield on their own, although this entire idea is purely speculative on your part since none of the former devs have ever mentioned LA or Battlefield as reasons for the NGE. There are any number of valid criticisms of LA, but making up hare-brained assumptions that have no basis in fact isn't one of them.
I'm not a fan of either company, but I don't see the point in someone like Rubenfield taking responsibility for a reviled system like the NGE if it was LA who ordered it. He has no reason to cover for them now. That doesn't mean there isn't a similarity in the NGE style and Battlefield. But it's also plausible they tried to copy Battlefield on their own, although this entire idea is purely speculative on your part since none of the former devs have ever mentioned LA or Battlefield as reasons for the NGE. There are any number of valid criticisms of LA, but making up hare-brained assumptions that have no basis in fact isn't one of them.
Yeah, we have no disclosures about a Battlefield connection. Same time as Battlefield, similar feel to Battlefield (if it was busted), but no disclosure. Honestly, I can live with the uncertainty ^_^. We may never no for sure if it influenced the process.
Also, I doubt we'll ever read a quote of exactly what LucasArts said to SOE about the original game or the CU. We've heard they weren't happy with the population. We know they wanted something done about it. We know Rubenfield and some other devs cooked up the NGE as a response. We know LucasArts gave it the green light. We're missing some fine print probably, but I'm okay with that. Still speculating is fun at times lol.