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AoC US Forums: Morrison gets an ear full
Unfinished
Member Posts: 881
And doesn't seem to be taking it as well as he used to. I like Craig, he always seemed pretty cheerful and level headed even when dealing with the most disgruntled ass-clowns. Seems to me like he isn't holding up to the pressure of having to really be a head dev this time.
From The 1.05 Update thread forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php , It's getting pretty heated.
Quote Silirrion (Morrison)
"I don't mean to single you out, posts that include insults are pretty much ignored as a general rule. Constructive criticism is one thing, and I am perfectly fine dealing with that, as I am doing here, but you have to understand that usually the second a dev reads an insult they will be switching off by and large."
He used to have a much thicker skin. Sad.
Side Note: Glad to see a change in FC forum Moderation, the critical fans are finally having their voices heard. As ugly as it is getting, atleast the FC Devs are finally hearing it straight from the players.
Comments
Er... so what you're saying is that Craig should just have to put up with any level of insult towards him personally and AoC generally just because he's dev?
A lot of those ppl responding to threads from the devs are using a language that makes me wonder if they ever got out of the 5yrs stage where you use "bad" words you picked up in kindergarden just to see how mummy will react.
I perfectly well understand why he would ignore those and chose to spend his energy on those who give constructive criticism and have actual good suggestions. Craig is one of the best Game Directors there is, and why some people want to insult him and us that kind of language is beyond me. But I guess that if you don't know how to behave like a grown up person and don't have the skill to give criticism in a mature way, all there's left is insults and abusive language.
You can't expect children to know any better if they're not raised properly to begin with I guess....
Sad that some of those players aren't mature/ wise enough to ask questions without adding insults to them. Politeness isn't held in high regard when someone has the internet to hide behind.
Not a flame, I know that it happens in all games and all across the internet, but it's still a shame to see, and many kids have grown up knowing no different their entire lives. It will affect them adversely someday, either in a job or a situation where being polite would have been the correct thing to do.
I watched Craig deal with way worse and handle it much better during his tenure with Anarchy Online. That one particular poster 'had his number', if you read that particular post of Craig's in it's entirety, you'll see he tells the guy 'you are right'.
And yes Craig has to put up with people talking smack about him and the game, he is the 'Top Dog' the buck is supposed to stop with him. Heavy is the Crown.
Not to bust Morrison chops anymore than others have today but "Craig is one of the best Game Directors there is" has yet to be proven, he no real track record of developing much of anything so far in Anarchy Online or Age of Conan.
Quote:
"I don't feel like I am missing the point, I just don't think that your assessment is necessarily true. We could clearly see that players progressing up the levels did not feel there was sufficient content to make them want to continue leveling, thus we focused our efforts there with previous updates. Additional raid content would not have been worthwhile when in general most players weren't reaching those levels in the first place. That is not for a minute saying we don't also want to add additional raid content, but we had to prioritise the additions. I do feel we made the right choice, and as I said you will see the content focus shift to more higher level and raid content as we proceed as more players do reach the higher levels.
Again, it's ok to disagree, with an MMO setting we can't please everyone all of the time. If we had added a bunch of raid content instead there would be just as many people, if not more, still complaining about 'content gaps'...we have to make those hard choices about what is best to prioritize, and we always try to make the best decisions we can for the long term success of the game, but they won't always be the choices you might have made personally."
In other words, the majority of the level 80's have abandoned ship and the only ones really playing are trials and low level subs who themselves have been quitting due to no content.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I watched Craig deal with way worse and handle it much better during his tenure with Anarchy Online. That one particular poster 'had his number', if you read that particular post of Craig's in it's entirety, you'll see he tells the guy 'you are right'.
And yes Craig has to put up with people talking smack about him and the game, he is the 'Top Dog' the buck is supposed to stop with him. Heavy is the Crown.
Not to bust Morrison chops anymore than others have today but "Craig is one of the best Game Directors there is" has yet to be proven, he no real track record of developing much of anything so far in Anarchy Online or Age of Conan.
On the contrary, he developed the Lost Eden "expansion" ( which was barely big enough to qualify as a booster pack lol ).
You know, the one with:
the research that was maxed out the first week and done with
the mechs noone uses
the battlestations that are mostly empty except for TL5
the buggy and exploitable orbital strikes that have just recently been made "acceptable" after pretty much killing tower war PvP
ugly ass Ofab armor which is mostly useless except for a few select pieces
and alien "team" missions that people team long enough to get in to solo if they even bother with them at all ( especially now that they finally removed grey aliens from giving full XP lol ).
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
What you say is very true, it's easy to hide behind a name on the forums and think you can do what you want and say what you like. After all you don't have to look them in the eye whilst saying it. I read the thread and it is funny how some of the posters kept going back to insulting Morrison even tho he gave pretty clear answers to their questions. Sure the answer wasn't what they wanted and then they find more reasons to insult.
I do 100% understands funcom's approach on fixing the game, you cannot start to fix a game at the endgame then move down to start. The best way you can do it is by fixing the game from start to end like they have done now, this way they will reduce the amount of surprises that can come when they alter gear etc. For players already at endgame they probably don't see this very easy after all they are bored, they demand content for their money. I do see their point, but it won't help neglecting the area of the game majority of people struggled with.
It's interesting to look at from a distance tho, to see how people behave when things isn't going exactly as they want it too. Developers in cases like this cannot win no matter what they do. whatever they choose to do there will be pissed off people because they don't do it the way they want them to do things.
Playing: Battlefield - Bad company (Xbox360) Arma2, DFO (PC)
On my radar: TSW, MO
MMO's played: SWG (pre cu/cu), WoW, AoC, WAR, DFO, Planetside
MMO's that I have tested: Lotro, L2, Aion, Ryzom
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Just because the RAIDing community in MMO's is a rather vocal crowd, doesn't mean they are the majority and thus should get priority over the rest.
Let me burst your bubble a bit. The VAST majority of players in MMO's have never ever set foot in any RAID dungeon whatsoever. And is not even slightly interested in it, because of the extensive time it requires from the player.
The VAST majority of MMO players spend most their time leveling characters and ALT's, crafting, socialising and running regular, less time consuming dungeons.
These people, this VAST majority, are not willing to be put up with content gaps and being forced to grind to advance.
Hence the mass quiting exodus in Age of Conan last year within the first 2 months!
So Craig did the right thing to give priority to close the Content Gaps first!
Now that that is pretty much done when patch 1.05 goes live. The whole Dev team can now start focussing on the High Level content and start adding more there.
Like The House of Crom, on wich they are already working on.
----------------
It was the same with EverQuest 2 back when it launches. It also suffered a mass quiting exodus in the first year. Because the game was too tedious and suffering content gap issues.
There SOE took the wrong priorities and it wasn't before the EOF expansion (third one... aka 3 years after launch) till they recovered and EQ2 subscriptions got back to a steady 250k - 350k subscribers.
Because EOF added a new starter area and more low and midlevel content. Removed more of the tediousness the game suffered from and added the much anticipated AA system.
That is what brought a lot of people back! Not new RAID content! New low-mid level content and the new race, that made leveling (especially ALT's) more pleasant!
That's what brought people back.
Cheers
Truth hurts
"Craig, With all do respect, You are a real piece of work. I apologize for the minor insult, But on the same token, Relate to how myself and MANY others feel about what your doing with our money."
This is exactly the problem with AOC atm. Since the game did not release even half finished - every single penny of current subs AND orginal box sales goes into fixing what was broken at launch. Now - I know ppl will say that Funcom have added bunch of stuff in the game - but the fact of the matter that EVERYTHING of it was already scheduled for the game realese - INCLUDING the added zones and dungeons.
The truth is that Funcom fooled about half a million ppl into buying a game (by false advertisments). They robbed ppl by releasing an unfinished game that "custimors" simply could not enjoy (memoryleaks - huge gaps in content). At the same time that games like WAR (released later) are throwing out MASSIVE content patches along side the normal amount of fixing and tweaking - AOC is only fixing their MASSIVE failure of broken RPG systems.
This should not come as a surprise to anyone tho. This is how it will be with AOC. THere are no massive content patches coming for sub money. PPL will be paying extra for new content. And the content will not be much and far between (compared to other MMOs of same standard). This is what every player of AOC needs to realise by now and accept it. The game is a second class MMO that is charged twice compared to other games.
If ppl want to look for goats ingame, seals on other webpages and standing around for two hours for nothing (like the one year event) then you will get exactly that. But just dont expect much more. Cause this is all you will ever get for your subs.
I sat here and read the entire thread and I think both sides have valid issues. He did a pretty good job ignoring the insults, but he knew when he took the job that a large part of it was dealing with pissed off players. He can't be surprised or complain anymore than a Roto Rooter guy could be surprised or bitch cause he got feces on his hands, Come to think of it , Roto Rooter is a good analogy for Morrisons job. He got thrown into a bathroom with a toilet that looked like Mt Vesuvius having a bad volcano day. To me what he said about the loot tables prior to 1.05 made sense but I cannot believe they did not have a team teaking them as for this patch.
Must be hell to be handed a rowboat with half the bottom missing and be told, "here fix this" is all I can say, Got to give credit where credit is due, he has did a hell of a job keeping it afloat and as a outside observer the ride has been fun to watch. Anyway if it wasn't for him the game have done a Horizons so I would enjoy seeing what he could do if handed a blank slate to work with.
Anyway just my 2 cents worth
I miss DAoC
I think its interesting that before release Funcom claimed that leveling 1-80 would be pretty fast and easy and be like a tutorial to the "end-game" where the real game would be with sieges and raids. Now 1 year later the game director claims that most players are not even lvl 80 so they keep their attention on lvls 1-79 and not give more content fo thoose at lvl 80.
I think this explains alot about what happened to AoC...
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
I can tell you a major mistake funcom made with AoC that involves AO ( besides the fact they copied every single mistake made during AOs' launch plus added a few ).
In AO, there have always been very few "quests". Even with the few new ones that have been added, 95% of AO is "grind". Granted, AO does have a very large world to explore ( which most don't ) to help ease the grind, as well as a phenomenal skill/level hybrid system to further help in the "grind" ( through "twinking" ) along with generic "mission" generators for "content".
Then they made AoC, with the express intent of it being more along the lines of a "standard" mmo ( i.e. quests and story line leveling ). Yet after Tortage, they fell back into the "sandbox" style of AO, dumping people more or less on their own, failing to realize that those attracted by AoC were and are NOT in the same market pool as the average AO player. The "standard" quest leveling system in a little to no quest environment does not work. And now, this long after launch, they're still trying to "fix" that little problem.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I don't know that Craig is the savior some people seem to think he is, but I don't doubt this game would have shut down already if Gaute was still in charge, so in that respect, you have to say he's done a good job. I'm not going to use the "polishing a turd" analogy, but there's only so much he can do with such a fundamentally flawed game that was only half finished when it launched.
Criticism of Funcom deleting negative posts from paying customers is warranted, but TBH I'd delete any post that was abusive if I was them. You can say the game is crap or the devs are effin up without being abusive.
LOL i dont see nothing with Craigs reply...what a silly post OP...
I don't see a problem with Morrison's displeasure over being insulted, no one should have to take comments online that someone wouldn't have the balls to say to them face to face.
People seem to think that insulting folks is the best way to get their way, when in fact it pretty much ensures that even if the person agrees with them, they'll give a contrary response just to piss them off.
Being civil is a dying art, and most foiks seem to treat personal encounters online like they are on a professional wrestling stage, full of epeen, BS and bravado.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Just because the RAIDing community in MMO's is a rather vocal crowd, doesn't mean they are the majority and thus should get priority over the rest.
Look who's talking about things they don't know about.
Are you trying to say ALL level 80's were/are raiders only? No? Good. Then my point still stands.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
I think they would have been ok if they had just balanced EXP gains before launch. My guild played AoC for a couple of months and we enjoyed it for the most part. One complaint that many of us had was the need to kill grey (zero EXP) mobs to complete a quest. There was nothing exciting about having a group wipe in a dungeon on mobs that rewarded no EXP because they never did a EXP/LvL balance. If the mobs had been the appropriate lvl and toughness players wouldn't have to rely solely on quest EXP to level and wouldn't have run out of quests every level.
Well I can say I'm far from a Fanbois but there is nothing wrong in Craig behavior.
It's ok to voice your opinion and it's even fine do do it strongly but stay polite.
It would be interesting to see the jerks behave in real in front of AoC devs. Most of them would babble incomprehensible sentences and lower their eyes.
I highly doubt EQ2 has ever recovered from its launch and is anywhere close to its peak of 350k users like it was at release.
There have been several rounds of server transfers and closures. The game went from somewhere around 36 servers to 25. That is a hefty drop off.
Just browsing the forums and you can read the messages where players openly talk about the game slowly dieing, because it cannot attract and retain new players. This is from current players.
If EQ2 was rebounding like that then SOE would be shouting from the highest rooftops that they were the second biggest mmo or at least something about their rebirth of EQ2. New servers would be opening to handle the growth and players wouldn't name the same 2 servers when a new player ask what server has a good population.
Nothing really suggests that the game has seen some massive resurgence of players due to an expansion that has a more casual approach.
I think you are right that there are plenty of casual non-raiders in mmos, but I think you are incorrect that EQ2 (let alone any) game has seen a rebound from its launch, especially 3 years after release.
"Shut your god damn candy ass mouth!"
[Agricola picks up a fold away chair that looks suspicously flimsy]
"Hey, I've been banging your wife!"
[hits Kyleran over the head and Kyleran falls to the floor and writhes in unconving pain]
Seriously there's nothing wrong with his post, it's not as if he pulled a Tasos or anything. However he's been given a shitty job in my opinion, that is he's been made captain of a certain sealiner after it already hit a large iceberg mid Atlantic!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
"Shut your god damn candy ass mouth!"
[Agricola picks up a fold away chair that looks suspicously flimsy]
"Hey, I've been banging your wife!"
[hits Kyleran over the head and Kyleran falls to the floor and writhes in unconving pain]
Seriously there's nothing wrong with his post, it's not as if he pulled a Tasos or anything. However he's been given a shitty job in my opinion, that is he's been made captain of a certain sealiner after it already hit a large iceberg mid Atlantic!
More like a certain hydrogen filled airship.......
Oh, the humanity!!
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
True Dat! Its hammertime!
I highly doubt EQ2 has ever recovered from its launch and is anywhere close to its peak of 350k users like it was at release.
There have been several rounds of server transfers and closures. The game went from somewhere around 36 servers to 25. That is a hefty drop off.
Just browsing the forums and you can read the messages where players openly talk about the game slowly dieing, because it cannot attract and retain new players. This is from current players.
If EQ2 was rebounding like that then SOE would be shouting from the highest rooftops that they were the second biggest mmo or at least something about their rebirth of EQ2. New servers would be opening to handle the growth and players wouldn't name the same 2 servers when a new player ask what server has a good population.
Nothing really suggests that the game has seen some massive resurgence of players due to an expansion that has a more casual approach.
I think you are right that there are plenty of casual non-raiders in mmos, but I think you are incorrect that EQ2 (let alone any) game has seen a rebound from its launch, especially 3 years after release.
I am not talking about the NOW. I was referring to the EOF expansion 3 years after launch.
That expansion was highly praised and DID cause a massive resurgence.
I know, as I was one of the returning players and was there and experienced it all. It was the best time I ever had in EverQuest 2. So many returning and new players. Could do all the group content from low to high level.
It was busy and it was a great time.
The last 2 expansions were pretty dramatic the least. RoK was okay... but the game is just aging now... like so many others.
Not enough new players coming in anymore. And the majority of the playerbase hanging around in the level70-80 zones far far away from the low level areas.
Not to mention that The Smed puled his Wet Dream RMT stunt by slamming a cash shop on EQ2 shortly after the last expansion. Pissing off a lot of players with it (incl. me, my gf and many friends) that quit.
Cheers
I almost feel sorry for him. Keyword being almost. I am sure as director, he is pulling in plenty of Kroner. At least he was pretty honest with the fact they are redesigning the entire game.
He will have many sleepless nights right before 1.05 launches. An overhaul this severe cannot possibly be bug free. I predict that they will have to shut down servers, and rollback update because of the mass problems it will cause. If you look back at all of the games that have attempted what AoC is doing, you will see that NONE of them went off without a hitch. You will also see that droves of people left after these updates as well.
If you look at the entire history of Anarchy Online and Age of Conan, you will see Funcom has NEVER released a patch that didn't break at least 2 things for every one it fixed.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
That sounds like the normal spike in population all games go through during an expansion. What made that one "popular" at all levels was a new race, new starting city and content from 1 to 60. It was a complete expansion and you are right, perhaps the best one. It gave players plenty of reason to level up again,play in the old world content and make the world feel alive again.
I don't doubt the game raised up some during that expansion, but not to the level it was at release. That would mean the game has gone through 2 large waves of people leaving and considering the expansion after EOF sold more copies that would mean EQ2 somehow surpassed their release subscriber mark and effectively doubled the population?
If that happened soe would be all over the place with press releases about 2nd largest mmo or new servers. It would have killed the common theory that games only get one chance to make an impression. I doubt something that large would have gone unnoticed.