1. Blizzard made big on wow cause it was tailored to the mass population. Blizzard them selves made a game based on lore that was put in place but was able to twist it to fit thier MMO. Warcraft lore Vs Star Wars lore though is like compareing an apple to an orange Warcraft is going to end with this Exp Blizzard has already started working on a New MMO that has not be announced yet but it has nothing to do with Warcraft/Starcraft or diablo. So meaning that Warcraft is coming to its end after Arthas dies nothing more it was blizzards intent to make WoW and play it out they never thought it would have been as big as it was. Blizzard as a company is great at marketing thier games and we seen over the years the funny wow commericals on TV the interent advertisments ect ect. But when it comes to stories and content in my opnion Blizzard lacks.. All thier stuff has been rinse wash and repeat and they them selves have not really done anything amazing since the last Exp BC. People more or less play wow now cause there really is not much else to choose from out there that has as easy of a playing curve as wow does or the games them selves are really old and people do not want to go to a Vet community. Lets be honest Raiding for one, how many of us out there like to raid with 24 other players that fall into one of these groups Kids/Married couples with limited play time/Teenagers who rather drink then raid anyways/Hardcore fanatics that scream in vent when you wipe on grobulas/Raid leaders who think thier way is the only way/ ect ect.... In my opnion wow is going to die yes it just is not going to happen as quick as everyone thinks. People said UO would die and hell they been around since 97 and still have an active community. 2. Bioware has proven they can make a compeling story with some great added twists... They have made some very good RPG titles but they lack the experiance in the MMO world there will be alot of hit and miss with this game, I do think however they will be good enough to overcome some short comings. Now do I think right out of the box SW:TOR is going to solve all my MMO woes...Doubtful I will say the first 3 months of a MMO will make or break it and I hope they know the constant nerfs that most MMO's do the first 3 months will kill the game like AoC/WAR/Darkfall ect ect...... They need to have a great beta test and a workable balance between jedi and the other classes if they can manage that I would hold on to my seats cause Tor will be amazing...
sorry to burst your self riteous bubble on this one, but blizzard reps themselves have stated that as long as people continue to play WoW they will continue to improve it and design content for the game, even with the development and eventual release of there new mmo...
Honestly, blizzard is too smart of a business to just die off, look at starcraft ghost, ended it before release because during testing and that it didnt do as well as they hoped, so instead of investing more money into something which probably wouldnt do well, they made a clean cut... Not to mention they are developing 2 very different themes. One is a Fantasy world (WoW) the other is a sci fi theme, so what makes anyone think they are going to steal a majority of WoW's player base. Has anyone actually stopped to think that maybe the people playing WoW like the "fantasy" theme over "sci fi" or they would be playing SWG, Eve Online... or any other sci fi themed space game that is currently on the market.
I dont get and i totally agree with why does one company, have to beat WoW, why is it EVERY single game that seems to be released it going to be a "WoW Killer" but none stack up and appeal to the WoW player base as much as the game itself does, it's funny, WoW might lose a few hundred thousand subs for a month while there players are trying the next big thing, but guess what more then 50% of the time those subscriptions are reactivated and those people are playing again, because unfortunatly for us the consumer... game companies are more interested in releasing a game 70% completely and really unpolished to start generating some revenue and end up releasing a game that doesnt deserve the server space it's using and it fails epically. Look at the WoW beta, that went on for months and although at release it might not have been perfect, it was better then alot of other games at release.... AoC, VG, LOTRO... to name a couple.
If companies didnt have to continually read and get hyped up by fanboys clamining there game is gonna be the next big thing and a WoW killer, maybe they'd be more incline to work a little harder and produce a better quality product to be in competition with WoW and not try to bring down the giant... because at the end of the day who loses out... US as the consumer, the game companies have already made there $50 you paid for the game and 1 or 2 months subscription you paid for, on there servers which are probably costing them a fraction of what they're charging you to play, so seriously cut the crap, stop worrying about games beating wow and start being more concearned about the crap there throwing at us, because we really are the only ones losing out...
on a side note, who knows... maybe WoW has decided to release it's own Sci Fi based MMO and thats what it's new IP is going to be, something new and innovative to compete with SW:TOR because lets face it, the power and backing that blizzard has it atstounding, they can dump ridiculous amounts of money into the game to make it work... guess we just have to wait and see
Bioware makes games with stories that are nice for a single play-through but I haven't played a Bioware game since NWN1 that had any kind of replay value. Blizzard's games have amazing replay value - I'm still playing Starcraft now & then after 11 years.
I'm worried if Bioware will really be able to create a lot of replay-value in SWTOR. Successful MMOs need players that continue to subscribe for years and they'll burn through content/story much faster than Bioware can create it.
@ Sonofseth - Blizzard do not make better games,they haven't made a triple A shooter yet. They have good hack'n'slash games with Diablo and they have a good MMO with WoW but Blizzard's bread and butter has always been RTS development. BioWare have made great shooters with Shattered Steel and MDK2, i'd also count Mass Effect here as it is both a shooter and an RPG. BioWare's bread and butter development though is with story driven RPG's. So both developers make good games but don't compete, they will compete heavily for the first time when ToR launches.
They make better games in terms of gameplay, in a way that playing the game is fun in itself even if you don't know the story. You can play Starcraft or Warcraft 3 only multiplayer skiping all the story and have fun, you can play Diablos only multiplayer and just slay monsters without bothering with lore because it's a rewarding expirience.
You canot do that with Bioware games, Bioware games have clunky cumbersome controls which you have to fight to get to the good stuff, the story. Mass Effect is an amazing RPG with a great story but it's crap as an FPS. Baldurs Gates and Nevewinter Nights are amazing RPGs in terms of character building, story progression and variety but have boring combat you are willing to forgive beause the good stuff is soo good it doesen't matter.
It's the same old argument with Blizzard, they make games that have no weakest link, and Bioware makes games that have one amazing link and rest is there just to make a complete chain.
You will see the same thing with TOR, it's story, choices and character development will be leagues above what you get in WoW but in terms of fluidity and responsivness of avatar control, WoW will be ahead.
That is what I mean by gameplay, playing the game in the purest meaning of the word, just playing the game, not intelectualy deconstructing the merrits untill you find stuff you like and can justify you liking it, but just;
-sitting down in front of the computer
-double clicking the launch game shortcut
-GO!
It has nothing to do with genres or backround of the player, that's why Blizzard games are played by everyone and Bioware games aren't.
Bioware creates far more original stories, Blizzard is significantly ahead of the game in terms of gameplay. Three major things to remember... 1) People want different things out of games, neither company will "win" and if Bioware can even get 1/4th of the subscriber base World of Warcraft has than their game is a resounding success the likes of which hasn't been seen since WoW's release. Their goal isn't to "beat" Blizzard, it's to come anywhere close to the success that Blizzard had with WoW. 2) Blizzard also has a pristine track record, both companies have been independently successful and existed alongside one another fine - this will not change. 3) Blizzard is working on an new MMORPG. Blizzard has a tremendous amount of funding available for the development of this new game, and unlike literally anyone else working on an MMORPG right now has the power, and funding to take as much time as they need to polish the ever-loving-shit out of it before it releases. They aren't retarded, they will not be releasing "WoW 2.0" - the new game will learn from this upcoming generation of releases (including TOR) and will refine/expand as needed.
Now, I don't want this to sound like I'm rooting for Blizzard to destroy Bioware - I'm rooting for neither. The MMORPG landscape doesn't need someone to "destroy" Blizzard, that isn't even a viable goal at the moment. The MMO scape just needs to see new, innovative titles being released as finished products and being independently successful. We've gone entirely too long with huge, expensive games being released and utterly failing. Too many people trying to release WoW 2.0... Bill Roper is right, Blizzard set out with WoW to make the best Everquest and they succeeded... there isn't room at the moment to make a better Everquest, but there is a tremendous amount of room to make a better MMORPG.
Explain how Blizzard are "significantly" ahead in terms of gameplay?
It seems to me that Blizzard have never developed a shooter so they have nothing that competes with Shattered Steel, MDK2, or Mass Effect in terms of gameplay. Diablo is a hack'n'slash game and not a real RPG to me so it doesn't really compete with BioWare RPG's like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Night's, KoTOR, Jade Empire, or Mass Effect and certainly doesn't beat them for gameplay in my opinion.
Blizzard are only better in terms of RTS, they are the world leaders in terms of RTS but that doesn't make them significantly better at gameplay than BioWare.
WoW can't be counted as them being ahead in gameplay until ToR comes out or we get to see some live action from the game at least, like the E3 demo we missed.
The essence of that statement comes from Blizzards design philosophy. They rarely take large gambles with their products; instead they refine and combine previous ideas and polish the gameplay. Starcraft's story is pretty generic, the characters (with the exception of maybe Kerrigan) are terrible cliches. The game isn't renound and wildly successful becauses of it's awesome story. It's wildly successful because they managed to make a strategy game with 3 different factions that all play very different but all remain very balanced. Warcraft-Warcraft III are the same deal, fairly generic storylines/settings but incredibly refined/polished gameplay.
World of Warcraft is where I'll likely get the largest disagreement here on MMORPG.com - home of the WoW hater. I played the game for a long time, I don't play anymore because I don't like how much time it has to consume these days to be entertaining for me. However, there is no denying that they have created a wildly successful product with WoW. They did this by, again, focusing entirely on what current genre-fans enjoyed about previous games, what they did not enjoy, and polish the hell out of previously existing gameplay. Sure, it's PvP isn't amazing (downright bad these days I'd say) - but they are the absolute kings of PvE content *of the current MMO varient.*
World of Warcraft is ahead of the *current competition* in terms of gameplay for the games primary focus, pve dungeons. Will TOR beat it out? I would surely hope so, the game is years newer than WoW. And if it does provide better gameplay then I hope people who play based on gameplay (and not on setting, in which case fantasy gamers will stay with WoW/War/LoTRO) realize this and move to TOR. WoW's time has come, and I really hope that it's coming to an end. Not because I think Blizzard is evil; I think they are a great company, I just think the MMORPG genre is ripe for change. I expect TOR and several other in-development games to do just that, but I also expect Blizzards in-development MMORPG to be shockingly refined. They have a proven track record as an MMORPG developer now, and they have resources far beyond that of any competitor.
You can also play Sacred (1/2) without knowing the story. Thats because its a HacknSlay, they are supposed to be about HacknSlay Its not because of the uberness of blizz lol
You can also play Sacred (1/2) without knowing the story. Thats because its a HacknSlay, they are supposed to be about HacknSlay Its not because of the uberness of blizz lol
Diablo and Sacred are of two diferent levels of polish. Sacred is cumbersome and buggy, Diablo is the oposite.
I am rooting for Bioware, this is their time to shine! They have a perfect record of games and are a solid development team and will PWN Blizzard! Thats the deal, they are stepping up to the plate. Cmon lets look at the record Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect and the King of all time RPG Baulders Gate Its over for Blizzard. Blizzard got lucky with Wow, it was their first rpg. Diablo was an Action rpg not the same. The Masters have come and its Bioware! Wow is going to get pummled!
This is another useless post bro, I agree with your taste in games but they are in no way going to compete for the same dollars WOW is a fantasy game TOR is a sci fi game and I hate to have to say people are not in droves going to cancel wow subs and immediately activate TOR some will sub to both I hope but this game will have no bearing on wow and I would hate for it to because I played wow and truth be told I wouldn't want to play with all those gold farmers children and loot ninjas so let's just hope that you are wrong.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Bioware is the best RPG game company hands down...
Hello, Horkathane, I would like to introduce you to my friend Bethesda Softworks...
Bethesda is cool but for RPGs I'll take Bioware anyday if anything you should have made a different post asking what company people prefered because right now you are in the realms of alot of players who are going to chose Bioware sorry Bioware get's my money everyday
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
You can also play Sacred (1/2) without knowing the story. Thats because its a HacknSlay, they are supposed to be about HacknSlay Its not because of the uberness of blizz lol
Diablo and Sacred are of two diferent levels of polish. Sacred is cumbersome and buggy, Diablo is the oposite.
You say that, I call Diablo 3 colorful, nothing else *g*
My dad is bigger than your dad. My dad is a fireman he beats your dad My dad is a policeman and he has a gun ... etc.
Basicaly - 5 year old behaviour :P
I will never understand why one has to "beat" the other one. They are two products, just go and put your money on the one you feel deserves it more compared to what you get out from it, and let the other people put their money where they wanto to and move on.
How dare you have a rational thought on this site.
I'm sorry to say this but Horkathane really seems to piss me off. I'm not saying you're a bad person or anything but, you seem to be a very narrow minded/pretentious douche and reading your posts agitates me.
Comments
sorry to burst your self riteous bubble on this one, but blizzard reps themselves have stated that as long as people continue to play WoW they will continue to improve it and design content for the game, even with the development and eventual release of there new mmo...
Honestly, blizzard is too smart of a business to just die off, look at starcraft ghost, ended it before release because during testing and that it didnt do as well as they hoped, so instead of investing more money into something which probably wouldnt do well, they made a clean cut... Not to mention they are developing 2 very different themes. One is a Fantasy world (WoW) the other is a sci fi theme, so what makes anyone think they are going to steal a majority of WoW's player base. Has anyone actually stopped to think that maybe the people playing WoW like the "fantasy" theme over "sci fi" or they would be playing SWG, Eve Online... or any other sci fi themed space game that is currently on the market.
I dont get and i totally agree with why does one company, have to beat WoW, why is it EVERY single game that seems to be released it going to be a "WoW Killer" but none stack up and appeal to the WoW player base as much as the game itself does, it's funny, WoW might lose a few hundred thousand subs for a month while there players are trying the next big thing, but guess what more then 50% of the time those subscriptions are reactivated and those people are playing again, because unfortunatly for us the consumer... game companies are more interested in releasing a game 70% completely and really unpolished to start generating some revenue and end up releasing a game that doesnt deserve the server space it's using and it fails epically. Look at the WoW beta, that went on for months and although at release it might not have been perfect, it was better then alot of other games at release.... AoC, VG, LOTRO... to name a couple.
If companies didnt have to continually read and get hyped up by fanboys clamining there game is gonna be the next big thing and a WoW killer, maybe they'd be more incline to work a little harder and produce a better quality product to be in competition with WoW and not try to bring down the giant... because at the end of the day who loses out... US as the consumer, the game companies have already made there $50 you paid for the game and 1 or 2 months subscription you paid for, on there servers which are probably costing them a fraction of what they're charging you to play, so seriously cut the crap, stop worrying about games beating wow and start being more concearned about the crap there throwing at us, because we really are the only ones losing out...
on a side note, who knows... maybe WoW has decided to release it's own Sci Fi based MMO and thats what it's new IP is going to be, something new and innovative to compete with SW:TOR because lets face it, the power and backing that blizzard has it atstounding, they can dump ridiculous amounts of money into the game to make it work... guess we just have to wait and see
Bioware makes better RPGs, Blizzard makes better games.
doesnt metter...
i still believe in Turbine...
LOTRO player
Bioware makes games with stories that are nice for a single play-through but I haven't played a Bioware game since NWN1 that had any kind of replay value. Blizzard's games have amazing replay value - I'm still playing Starcraft now & then after 11 years.
I'm worried if Bioware will really be able to create a lot of replay-value in SWTOR. Successful MMOs need players that continue to subscribe for years and they'll burn through content/story much faster than Bioware can create it.
They make better games in terms of gameplay, in a way that playing the game is fun in itself even if you don't know the story. You can play Starcraft or Warcraft 3 only multiplayer skiping all the story and have fun, you can play Diablos only multiplayer and just slay monsters without bothering with lore because it's a rewarding expirience.
You canot do that with Bioware games, Bioware games have clunky cumbersome controls which you have to fight to get to the good stuff, the story. Mass Effect is an amazing RPG with a great story but it's crap as an FPS. Baldurs Gates and Nevewinter Nights are amazing RPGs in terms of character building, story progression and variety but have boring combat you are willing to forgive beause the good stuff is soo good it doesen't matter.
It's the same old argument with Blizzard, they make games that have no weakest link, and Bioware makes games that have one amazing link and rest is there just to make a complete chain.
You will see the same thing with TOR, it's story, choices and character development will be leagues above what you get in WoW but in terms of fluidity and responsivness of avatar control, WoW will be ahead.
That is what I mean by gameplay, playing the game in the purest meaning of the word, just playing the game, not intelectualy deconstructing the merrits untill you find stuff you like and can justify you liking it, but just;
-sitting down in front of the computer
-double clicking the launch game shortcut
-GO!
It has nothing to do with genres or backround of the player, that's why Blizzard games are played by everyone and Bioware games aren't.
Explain how Blizzard are "significantly" ahead in terms of gameplay?
It seems to me that Blizzard have never developed a shooter so they have nothing that competes with Shattered Steel, MDK2, or Mass Effect in terms of gameplay. Diablo is a hack'n'slash game and not a real RPG to me so it doesn't really compete with BioWare RPG's like Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Night's, KoTOR, Jade Empire, or Mass Effect and certainly doesn't beat them for gameplay in my opinion.
Blizzard are only better in terms of RTS, they are the world leaders in terms of RTS but that doesn't make them significantly better at gameplay than BioWare.
WoW can't be counted as them being ahead in gameplay until ToR comes out or we get to see some live action from the game at least, like the E3 demo we missed.
The essence of that statement comes from Blizzards design philosophy. They rarely take large gambles with their products; instead they refine and combine previous ideas and polish the gameplay. Starcraft's story is pretty generic, the characters (with the exception of maybe Kerrigan) are terrible cliches. The game isn't renound and wildly successful becauses of it's awesome story. It's wildly successful because they managed to make a strategy game with 3 different factions that all play very different but all remain very balanced. Warcraft-Warcraft III are the same deal, fairly generic storylines/settings but incredibly refined/polished gameplay.
World of Warcraft is where I'll likely get the largest disagreement here on MMORPG.com - home of the WoW hater. I played the game for a long time, I don't play anymore because I don't like how much time it has to consume these days to be entertaining for me. However, there is no denying that they have created a wildly successful product with WoW. They did this by, again, focusing entirely on what current genre-fans enjoyed about previous games, what they did not enjoy, and polish the hell out of previously existing gameplay. Sure, it's PvP isn't amazing (downright bad these days I'd say) - but they are the absolute kings of PvE content *of the current MMO varient.*
World of Warcraft is ahead of the *current competition* in terms of gameplay for the games primary focus, pve dungeons. Will TOR beat it out? I would surely hope so, the game is years newer than WoW. And if it does provide better gameplay then I hope people who play based on gameplay (and not on setting, in which case fantasy gamers will stay with WoW/War/LoTRO) realize this and move to TOR. WoW's time has come, and I really hope that it's coming to an end. Not because I think Blizzard is evil; I think they are a great company, I just think the MMORPG genre is ripe for change. I expect TOR and several other in-development games to do just that, but I also expect Blizzards in-development MMORPG to be shockingly refined. They have a proven track record as an MMORPG developer now, and they have resources far beyond that of any competitor.
this is a really stupid thread to compare the two companies. the only real thing they have in common is both have 1 mmo.
You can also play Sacred (1/2) without knowing the story. Thats because its a HacknSlay, they are supposed to be about HacknSlay
Its not because of the uberness of blizz lol
Diablo and Sacred are of two diferent levels of polish. Sacred is cumbersome and buggy, Diablo is the oposite.
This is another useless post bro, I agree with your taste in games but they are in no way going to compete for the same dollars WOW is a fantasy game TOR is a sci fi game and I hate to have to say people are not in droves going to cancel wow subs and immediately activate TOR some will sub to both I hope but this game will have no bearing on wow and I would hate for it to because I played wow and truth be told I wouldn't want to play with all those gold farmers children and loot ninjas so let's just hope that you are wrong.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Hello, Horkathane, I would like to introduce you to my friend Bethesda Softworks...
Bethesda is cool but for RPGs I'll take Bioware anyday if anything you should have made a different post asking what company people prefered because right now you are in the realms of alot of players who are going to chose Bioware sorry Bioware get's my money everyday
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Diablo and Sacred are of two diferent levels of polish. Sacred is cumbersome and buggy, Diablo is the oposite.
You say that, I call Diablo 3 colorful, nothing else *g*
How dare you have a rational thought on this site.
LMFAO! Too true!
To each their own.
I'm sorry to say this but Horkathane really seems to piss me off. I'm not saying you're a bad person or anything but, you seem to be a very narrow minded/pretentious douche and reading your posts agitates me.
Weird I thought that they were trying to make a good game.
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.