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The differences between Champions Online and City of Heroes
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Could you please talk about the Cryptic Mall for the Cryptic Bucks?
Compare it to the CoX packs that are a one-time purchase like a fluff-based expansion pack (while the content updates are free) and tell us how aggressive it is in comparison to it.
I've yet to read any previews that comment on the combat system and regard it as more action oriented. There's not much difference between endurance building and waiting for mana to regen. So far previewers have generally been unimpressed with the "it's more action oriented" claim.
The one smart thing that Cryptic did was get rid of individual cooldowns (for most, but not all frameworks). That puts more choice back in the player's hands - so rather than arbitrarily using a particular power because the timer has counted down, you get to use whatever you think makes sense for the situation..... apart from the rather silly limitation of only being able to have half (i.e. 7 of 14) powers on the UI.
An error of judgement they're apparently correcting now.
well in city of x games i never felt 1 bit super, even fighting level 2 cops with 9mm pistols i felt weak as a super villain who was supposed to have super stength and be nearly invulnerable. i expected a feel of when everyones super, no one is in the pvp, or boss fights vs other super beings, i would have liked to at least feel super when fighting ordinary enemies, just make me fight hundreds of them at a time and it would feel epic =p. maybe champs or the dc heroe game will do it right?
That feeling of super-ness definitely existed in CoH at launch.
But it's been whittled away by years of nerfing powers that started with the introduction of pvp.
Once upon a time, tanks - certain builds anyway - could pull ridiculous numbers of mobs and blasters could swoop in and aoe them. It was quite a thrill as a very squishy little blaster or controller to dive into a seething mass of mobs and fire off aoe blasts or holds - knowing that if even a tiny fraction of those mobs turned their attention away from the tank, you'd be dead before you could blink.
They nerfed that to slow down xp farming - but in the process they also killed a fair whack of the game's fun factor.
That feeling of super-ness definitely existed in CoH at launch.
But it's been whittled away by years of nerfing powers that started with the introduction of pvp.
Once upon a time, tanks - certain builds anyway - could pull ridiculous numbers of mobs and blasters could swoop in and aoe them. It was quite a thrill as a very squishy little blaster or controller to dive into a seething mass of mobs and fire off aoe blasts or holds - knowing that if even a tiny fraction of those mobs turned their attention away from the tank, you'd be dead before you could blink.
They nerfed that to slow down xp farming - but in the process they also killed a fair whack of the game's fun factor.
Kinda funny, that pretty much almost killed the game for me. I was about to quit (at the time) but they changed it. THANK GOD!
There is a huge difference between waiting for mana and building endurance. When you're out of mana, you have to wait or take a potion, but you never run out on endurence, when you don't have enough you start using power that gives endurence to build it to finaly use more powerful power, there is no auto attack in CO, which makes it more action. Also you don't have to wait between battle to re-engage since you build up endurance while fighting.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
There is a huge difference between waiting for mana and building endurance. When you're out of mana, you have to wait or take a potion, but you never run out on endurence, when you don't have enough you start using power that gives endurence to build it to finaly use more powerful power, there is no auto attack in CO, which makes it more action. Also you don't have to wait between battle to re-engage since you build up endurance while fighting.
Really? I can't remember having played any mmo where mana didn't regenerate over time.
Because that's all that CO's model boils down to, is an alternative to normal mana regeneration over time.
There is a huge difference between waiting for mana and building endurance. When you're out of mana, you have to wait or take a potion, but you never run out on endurence, when you don't have enough you start using power that gives endurence to build it to finaly use more powerful power, there is no auto attack in CO, which makes it more action. Also you don't have to wait between battle to re-engage since you build up endurance while fighting.
Really? I can't remember having played any mmo where mana didn't regenerate over time.
Because that's all that CO's model boils down to, is an alternative to normal mana regeneration over time.
You don't understand, in MMO, you have let say 100 mana, so you can use X spell for X amount of mana and when you are out of mana, you have to wait for it to regenerate. In CO, you have 0 endurance with a max of 100 when you start combat, so each time you use certain power you build up endurance and when you have enough you can use other power that use endurance, so you never wait, you always use your power and you don't just sit there and auto attack while your mana regenerate.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
There is a huge difference between waiting for mana and building endurance. When you're out of mana, you have to wait or take a potion, but you never run out on endurence, when you don't have enough you start using power that gives endurence to build it to finaly use more powerful power, there is no auto attack in CO, which makes it more action. Also you don't have to wait between battle to re-engage since you build up endurance while fighting.
Really? I can't remember having played any mmo where mana didn't regenerate over time.
Because that's all that CO's model boils down to, is an alternative to normal mana regeneration over time.
no its more like a Warriors rage in WoW cept no auto attacks, certain lesser dmg abilities GIVES mana so you can use the big guns. like how the warriors charge ability gave some rage? cept in CO there is more ailities that do that, so you're always doing something, instead of waiting for CDs on abilities.
I particularly enjoyed that part.
I particularly enjoyed that part.
and.... canada? lol intriguing
Waiting For: FF14,Guild Wars2
RIP: Tabula Rasa&Hellgate:London(online)
Playing:Fallen Earth&Guild Wars& Dragon Age
There is a huge difference between waiting for mana and building endurance. When you're out of mana, you have to wait or take a potion, but you never run out on endurence, when you don't have enough you start using power that gives endurence to build it to finaly use more powerful power, there is no auto attack in CO, which makes it more action. Also you don't have to wait between battle to re-engage since you build up endurance while fighting.
Really? I can't remember having played any mmo where mana didn't regenerate over time.
Because that's all that CO's model boils down to, is an alternative to normal mana regeneration over time.
no its more like a Warriors rage in WoW cept no auto attacks, certain lesser dmg abilities GIVES mana so you can use the big guns. like how the warriors charge ability gave some rage? cept in CO there is more ailities that do that, so you're always doing something, instead of waiting for CDs on abilities.
I know exactly how it works.
But it doesn't add to being more "action oriented". And that's exactly what previewers of the game are saying.
The only difference between a normal mana regen model and energy build up from attacks, is you have to fire off your single endurance building attack.
If there will be only one server then that means two things. Either the world will be HUGE (think current size of WoW times ten) or it will be HEAVILY instanced.
Seeings as CoH was heavily instanced I think it will be the second one. Anyone know for sure?
My gaming blog
If too many players are in a particular zone, then a second instance of the entire zone is created - which is what happens in CoH.
How does not having to wait for "mana/endurance" to recharge, in order to continue attacking, and not having cool downs; not make a game more action oriented? That just seems very argumentative on your part.
There is a huge difference between waiting for mana and building endurance. When you're out of mana, you have to wait or take a potion, but you never run out on endurence, when you don't have enough you start using power that gives endurence to build it to finaly use more powerful power, there is no auto attack in CO, which makes it more action. Also you don't have to wait between battle to re-engage since you build up endurance while fighting.
Really? I can't remember having played any mmo where mana didn't regenerate over time.
Because that's all that CO's model boils down to, is an alternative to normal mana regeneration over time.
no its more like a Warriors rage in WoW cept no auto attacks, certain lesser dmg abilities GIVES mana so you can use the big guns. like how the warriors charge ability gave some rage? cept in CO there is more ailities that do that, so you're always doing something, instead of waiting for CDs on abilities.
I know exactly how it works.
But it doesn't add to being more "action oriented". And that's exactly what previewers of the game are saying.
The only difference between a normal mana regen model and energy build up from attacks, is you have to fire off your single endurance building attack.
Either you don't know or don't understand, there's is a downtime between battle for you to regenerate your mana, not in CO, you kill and you jump to the other mob. Let's say you fight a boss, no one is going to say, I'm out of mana, cannot attack anymore (and the mage doesn't do anything anymore). In CO, you constantly fight against the boss.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
If too many players are in a particular zone, then a second instance of the entire zone is created - which is what happens in CoH.
Hm, so it will be like AoC.
Any word on what the zone cap is before a new instance is created?
My gaming blog
This is only true if your character is low levels. I have many characters who regularly take on between 6 and 30 mobs, and that's not limited to tanks. In fact, I don't have a single high level character who couldn't take on at least a half dozen mobs at once. Controllers, scrappers, blasters, they can all do it.
It makes sense not to be able to do that stuff in the early levels, though.
Either you don't know or don't understand, there's is a downtime between battle for you to regenerate your mana, not in CO, you kill and you jump to the other mob. Let's say you fight a boss, no one is going to say, I'm out of mana, cannot attack anymore (and the mage doesn't do anything anymore). In CO, you constantly fight against the boss.
As I said before, I know exactly how it works.
I also understand exactly how it works.
Have you ever played CoH? Apart from the early pre-stamina levels, it's extremely rare for anyone to ever need to rest between fights. You can almost always run straight from one to the next. It's been a while since I played it, but WoW was pretty much the same, except for rare, really intense battles. And I've been in the Aion closed beta, and it's exactly the same there.
And I've read several previews by people who have played the game who confirm that it isn't any more action-oriented than it appears, including this relatively recent one.
http://kotaku.com/5319869/champions-online-combat-preview-challenge-accepted
Still Feels Like A Cool Down: Technically, the spells in Champions don't need cool down periods after you cast them. However, you can't cast higher level spells without building up endurance with low-level attacks. It's a little bit less boring to mash the X button over and over than just sitting there and watching the timer on your best area-effect spell expire; but it still feels like a cool down period just the same.
All CO has is a CoH brawl-equivalent attack which regens mana, in place of natural "over-time" mana regeneration.
Like I said in my original response to this particular claim - while I think that taking most powers off of individual cooldowns was a smart move I also think the "it's more action-oriented" claim is pure hype and will be quickly seen as such.
No idea, sorry.
Either you don't know or don't understand, there's is a downtime between battle for you to regenerate your mana, not in CO, you kill and you jump to the other mob. Let's say you fight a boss, no one is going to say, I'm out of mana, cannot attack anymore (and the mage doesn't do anything anymore). In CO, you constantly fight against the boss.
As I said before, I know exactly how it works.
I also understand exactly how it works.
Have you ever played CoH? Apart from the early pre-stamina levels, it's extremely rare for anyone to ever need to rest between fights. You can almost always run straight from one to the next. It's been a while since I played it, but WoW was pretty much the same, except for rare, really intense battles. And I've been in the Aion closed beta, and it's exactly the same there.
And I've read several previews by people who have played the game who confirm that it isn't any more action-oriented than it appears, including this relatively recent one.
http://kotaku.com/5319869/champions-online-combat-preview-challenge-accepted
Still Feels Like A Cool Down: Technically, the spells in Champions don't need cool down periods after you cast them. However, you can't cast higher level spells without building up endurance with low-level attacks. It's a little bit less boring to mash the X button over and over than just sitting there and watching the timer on your best area-effect spell expire; but it still feels like a cool down period just the same.
All CO has is a CoH brawl-equivalent attack which regens mana, in place of natural "over-time" mana regeneration.
Like I said in my original response to this particular claim - while I think that taking most powers off of individual cooldowns was a smart move I also think the "it's more action-oriented" claim is pure hype and will be quickly seen as such.
The same reviewer goes on to say this,
"Champions Online shakes that up a bit by giving the player more to do than just stand there and kick. At any one point during combat you could be kicking someone's shins, raining fire down on them from the air while you hover overhead with your fiery fairy wings, dodging an attack with a well-timed mashing on the A or S button, or waiting for a command to pop up and tell you to mash a button to collect an item drop or escape an enemy attack or hold. You're always moving in Champions, always changing targets and never not mashing on an a button once combat gets going. Big plus."
Sounds more action oriented to me. In CoX or WoW, you never had to worry about blocking, which adds a whole new action oriented scheme.
That feeling of super-ness definitely existed in CoH at launch.
But it's been whittled away by years of nerfing powers that started with the introduction of pvp.
Once upon a time, tanks - certain builds anyway - could pull ridiculous numbers of mobs and blasters could swoop in and aoe them. It was quite a thrill as a very squishy little blaster or controller to dive into a seething mass of mobs and fire off aoe blasts or holds - knowing that if even a tiny fraction of those mobs turned their attention away from the tank, you'd be dead before you could blink.
They nerfed that to slow down xp farming - but in the process they also killed a fair whack of the game's fun factor.
QFT... played CoH from beta, quit after I4 (I think) when they started the first round of idiotic nerfs (like subduing travel powers when in combat, and the dreaded BS that was Enhancement Diversification (ED). Came back briefly, but the game mechanics were unrecognizable. Slow and boring.
At release, you felt super. You could take down insane numbers of mobs. It was great.
Too bad Jack Emmert screwed it all up by forcing the nerfs down everyone's throats.
It's funny, because despite what Emmert did to CoH, I was actually considering trying Champions. However, with the recent announcement of the combination sub / cash shop, forget it.
When I pay a sub, I get it all, up front. If I'm playing for free, I'm willing to pay for the extras when I choose.
Not both.
Pity. I wish I could say good luck to them with this payment model, just in the interest of not seeing yet another MMORPG go down in flames.
However, to be perfectly honest, I would like to see Champions crash and burn as an example to other developers. If sub / cash shop becomes the wave of the future for MMORPGs, I will stop playing them altogether.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Either you don't know or don't understand, there's is a downtime between battle for you to regenerate your mana, not in CO, you kill and you jump to the other mob. Let's say you fight a boss, no one is going to say, I'm out of mana, cannot attack anymore (and the mage doesn't do anything anymore). In CO, you constantly fight against the boss.
As I said before, I know exactly how it works.
I also understand exactly how it works.
Have you ever played CoH? Apart from the early pre-stamina levels, it's extremely rare for anyone to ever need to rest between fights. You can almost always run straight from one to the next. It's been a while since I played it, but WoW was pretty much the same, except for rare, really intense battles. And I've been in the Aion closed beta, and it's exactly the same there.
And I've read several previews by people who have played the game who confirm that it isn't any more action-oriented than it appears, including this relatively recent one.
http://kotaku.com/5319869/champions-online-combat-preview-challenge-accepted
Still Feels Like A Cool Down: Technically, the spells in Champions don't need cool down periods after you cast them. However, you can't cast higher level spells without building up endurance with low-level attacks. It's a little bit less boring to mash the X button over and over than just sitting there and watching the timer on your best area-effect spell expire; but it still feels like a cool down period just the same.
All CO has is a CoH brawl-equivalent attack which regens mana, in place of natural "over-time" mana regeneration.
Like I said in my original response to this particular claim - while I think that taking most powers off of individual cooldowns was a smart move I also think the "it's more action-oriented" claim is pure hype and will be quickly seen as such.
The same reviewer goes on to say this,
"Champions Online shakes that up a bit by giving the player more to do than just stand there and kick. At any one point during combat you could be kicking someone's shins, raining fire down on them from the air while you hover overhead with your fiery fairy wings, dodging an attack with a well-timed mashing on the A or S button, or waiting for a command to pop up and tell you to mash a button to collect an item drop or escape an enemy attack or hold. You're always moving in Champions, always changing targets and never not mashing on an a button once combat gets going. Big plus."
Sounds more action oriented to me. In CoX or WoW, you never had to worry about blocking, which adds a whole new action oriented scheme.
Also, what makes it feel more action-oriented, is you can move while using power (exept for some) which you can't in almost every MMO.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
Either you don't know or don't understand, there's is a downtime between battle for you to regenerate your mana, not in CO, you kill and you jump to the other mob. Let's say you fight a boss, no one is going to say, I'm out of mana, cannot attack anymore (and the mage doesn't do anything anymore). In CO, you constantly fight against the boss.
As I said before, I know exactly how it works.
I also understand exactly how it works.
Have you ever played CoH? Apart from the early pre-stamina levels, it's extremely rare for anyone to ever need to rest between fights. You can almost always run straight from one to the next. It's been a while since I played it, but WoW was pretty much the same, except for rare, really intense battles. And I've been in the Aion closed beta, and it's exactly the same there.
And I've read several previews by people who have played the game who confirm that it isn't any more action-oriented than it appears, including this relatively recent one.
http://kotaku.com/5319869/champions-online-combat-preview-challenge-accepted
Still Feels Like A Cool Down: Technically, the spells in Champions don't need cool down periods after you cast them. However, you can't cast higher level spells without building up endurance with low-level attacks. It's a little bit less boring to mash the X button over and over than just sitting there and watching the timer on your best area-effect spell expire; but it still feels like a cool down period just the same.
All CO has is a CoH brawl-equivalent attack which regens mana, in place of natural "over-time" mana regeneration.
Like I said in my original response to this particular claim - while I think that taking most powers off of individual cooldowns was a smart move I also think the "it's more action-oriented" claim is pure hype and will be quickly seen as such.
The same reviewer goes on to say this,
"Champions Online shakes that up a bit by giving the player more to do than just stand there and kick. At any one point during combat you could be kicking someone's shins, raining fire down on them from the air while you hover overhead with your fiery fairy wings, dodging an attack with a well-timed mashing on the A or S button, or waiting for a command to pop up and tell you to mash a button to collect an item drop or escape an enemy attack or hold. You're always moving in Champions, always changing targets and never not mashing on an a button once combat gets going. Big plus."
Sounds more action oriented to me. In CoX or WoW, you never had to worry about blocking, which adds a whole new action oriented scheme.
Also, what makes it feel more action-oriented, is you can move while using power (exept for some) which you can't in almost every MMO.
CO's model lets you control your "mana" flow in wasy the regular model doesn't. That alone makes it a lot more action oriented simply because it lets you be a lot more spontaneous during combat. In other terms, CO's model is basically the regular model but under your control, making it a more dynamic experience; you wanna fire off that super ultra blast from hell? you gotta work for it, plan for it during combat because you can't just walk in, fire it off and then run away while your endurance/mana regenerates. Both models look like the same in paper, but imagine a combat situation and you'll easily spot the difference that makes the "more action oriented" thing make sense.
Either you don't know or don't understand, there's is a downtime between battle for you to regenerate your mana, not in CO, you kill and you jump to the other mob. Let's say you fight a boss, no one is going to say, I'm out of mana, cannot attack anymore (and the mage doesn't do anything anymore). In CO, you constantly fight against the boss.
As I said before, I know exactly how it works.
I also understand exactly how it works.
Have you ever played CoH? Apart from the early pre-stamina levels, it's extremely rare for anyone to ever need to rest between fights. You can almost always run straight from one to the next. It's been a while since I played it, but WoW was pretty much the same, except for rare, really intense battles. And I've been in the Aion closed beta, and it's exactly the same there.
And I've read several previews by people who have played the game who confirm that it isn't any more action-oriented than it appears, including this relatively recent one.
http://kotaku.com/5319869/champions-online-combat-preview-challenge-accepted
Still Feels Like A Cool Down: Technically, the spells in Champions don't need cool down periods after you cast them. However, you can't cast higher level spells without building up endurance with low-level attacks. It's a little bit less boring to mash the X button over and over than just sitting there and watching the timer on your best area-effect spell expire; but it still feels like a cool down period just the same.
All CO has is a CoH brawl-equivalent attack which regens mana, in place of natural "over-time" mana regeneration.
Like I said in my original response to this particular claim - while I think that taking most powers off of individual cooldowns was a smart move I also think the "it's more action-oriented" claim is pure hype and will be quickly seen as such.
The same reviewer goes on to say this,
"Champions Online shakes that up a bit by giving the player more to do than just stand there and kick. At any one point during combat you could be kicking someone's shins, raining fire down on them from the air while you hover overhead with your fiery fairy wings, dodging an attack with a well-timed mashing on the A or S button, or waiting for a command to pop up and tell you to mash a button to collect an item drop or escape an enemy attack or hold. You're always moving in Champions, always changing targets and never not mashing on an a button once combat gets going. Big plus."
Sounds more action oriented to me. In CoX or WoW, you never had to worry about blocking, which adds a whole new action oriented scheme.
Also, what makes it feel more action-oriented, is you can move while using power (exept for some) which you can't in almost every MMO.
CO's model lets you control your "mana" flow in wasy the regular model doesn't. That alone makes it a lot more action oriented simply because it lets you be a lot more spontaneous during combat. In other terms, CO's model is basically the regular model but under your control, making it a more dynamic experience; you wanna fire off that super ultra blast from hell? you gotta work for it, plan for it during combat because you can't just walk in, fire it off and then run away while your endurance/mana regenerates. Both models look like the same in paper, but imagine a combat situation and you'll easily spot the difference that makes the "more action oriented" thing make sense.
It actually gives you less control.
The comparison that will inevitably be made by players and reviewers is the auto melee/bow/wand style attacks in EQ-style games like WOW and Aion. In those games you can control your mana output by balancing your mana-using powers and mana-free attacks. By doing that you can generally chew through even-con mobs without ever needing to rest. But if you come up against a bigger (eg. boss) type mob that you need to take down quickly, you can go all out with your bigger mana-using powers.
i.e. the old-school EQ-style system gives players a lot more choice and control than CO's.
I qualify these comments with - I have no problem with CO's combat mechanics. But the supposedly revolutionary differences are only surface deep and this particular claim is pure hype.
Blocking may be a nice additional touch - though all they've done there is take a standard melee option and given it to everyone.