Biggest pont of actual innovation (something no other MMO has yet done) centers around the idea of "warfare" driven zones/instances where you will be commanding a number of NPCs that you fit out, train and upgrade over time. Nothing usable in the "regular" game, but specific quest lines/battle instances where you will fight with "your" customized unit of NPCs vs the scenario.
Amazing. I was just thinking about this the other day. Something along the lines of your rep with with different groups, depending how much rep would = X number of 'leadership' points that you could spend on that races NPC troops. 1 recruit = 1 pt, 1 mounted = 5 pt etc.... You could have a large group of rabble or a small group of mounted elites and run the quest with them.
If they did a free zone area just think of the large scale army battles you could have
LotRO is alarming many by moving ever so strongly toward Raiding, .....
But are they trying to suck in an additional subscriber base or throwing something out there for players already in the game?
If you look through the O-forum threads you'll see comments like 'maxed out in a month' , 'will make it to level 20 by the end of my first day', 'have an alt at 35 already after a couple of weeks' etc... etc...
Now they could be raid-centric players like you mentioned or non-lore carer's or just have way too much time on thier hands. No matter which they fit they will eventually hit the ceiling and either do alts which will go through the material even faster the 2nd or 3rd time through or they'll leave the game.
OR Turbine can throw out dungeon raids for them to play in while they make the next book. Which is better? They go bye-bye or play off to the side?
If Turbine can make it so the gear the crafters make is just as good as the raid gear then 'both ' games will be supported. And as long as we don't start hearing the 'LFF for X, must have this, this and this' I could care less what they do.
Not everyone is going to truely care about the lore. If you polled the player base right now I'm sure less than 30% will have even read the books. The rest will only know the name from the movies.
I would honestly say right now that LotRO is a niche game. It is seen; pretty much the same way you described it, as a game for those ONLY interested in The Lord of the Rings. Now I don't think that's a bad thing as I kind of like the less people clutter thing, but from Turbines point of (financial) view ....... not really a good thing.
Turbine is going to make changes. I may not like some of them, others won't effect me (raids), others will be so what (Pvp). Like you said, as long as we don't see an NGE explosion, I can probably work around most of it.
First off, while I can understand some of the criticism about instancing, I think many are losing sight of a couple of things.
For one thing, Moria was a massive expansion with absolutely ridiculous amounts of things to do and places to go. Yeah the hardcore types chewed it up pretty fast, but that is hardly new to any MMO. I agree there hasn't been a lot of new stuff post Moria, but on the one hand they have had a lot of balancing, tweaking and bug fixing to do and on the other, I see the "lull" as a bit like a dev team taking a deep breath. I have faith that the next wave of expansion will reflect some things learned from MoM.
Secondly, a substantial portion of the LotRO player base is calling for MORE raids - that's not a move to attract WoW players, it's listening to what a lot of current subscribers say they want. Also, LotRO does a lot of work with smaller raids - the 3 and 6 man instances, to me those aren't really "raids" at all. LotRO still has very very few 12man+ raids. There are also serious rumors in the works about "scaling instances" that would scale mob difficulty from 2-3 players to 8-10 etc.
I'll agree the post MoM content is pretty thin right now, but I have faith that it will grow rapidly soon
Biggest pont of actual innovation (something no other MMO has yet done) centers around the idea of "warfare" driven zones/instances where you will be commanding a number of NPCs that you fit out, train and upgrade over time. Nothing usable in the "regular" game, but specific quest lines/battle instances where you will fight with "your" customized unit of NPCs vs the scenario.
sorry, my bad, I forgot that this is one of the two main selling points for atlantica online
oh, well will still keep an eye on it to see how it's done
Combat: Change it to a twitch based FPS, or some abortion of a hybrid system where you have to aim manually but your stats still affect whether you hit or not....no thanks. LoTRO has fairly strategic combat for a turn based system.Don't take this the wrong way but may i ask where is the strategy? you point, click then press a couple of buttons to set of special skills, if you fail a quest, get defeated etc. there is nothing you can do different next time or is this just purely in comparison to wow, eq2 etc? Play up something other than a Hunter or a Champion and you'd be aware of that.Classes i setteld on where hunter, lore-master and guardian and din't really see any difference in them outside the starter lvls And why is LoTRO being called out on this, instead of WoW, WAR, EQ, EQ II...and hell every other MMO that has turn based combat?maybe the guy is a lotr fan
I meant purely in comparison to other MMOs with turn based combat (WoW, EQ II, ect. as you say). That should have been pretty clear from the last line of my post. Yep, but after posting in these forums i've found it best to clarify at times
And if you really couldn't tell any difference in the gameplay between
1. a fairly simple single target DPS class with limited crowd control abilities
2. a tank with two different primary combo chains that are activated by different reactives and where the combo chains have switch points leading to different outcomes (for example a high threat attack or a self heal off of a block activated chain).
3. and a class that in parties has to manage a pet as well as decide whether to heal, cure, DPS, debuff, stun targets, or hand out power buffs (and really needs to keep on top of all of them to be working at full potential).
...I would suggest that you didn't get far enough to see what these classes really can do, or that I very badly misinterpreted what you meant. For example, as I recall at low levels Gaurdians don't have a single combo chain, much less two reactive ones with branch points. The complexity in LoTRO ramps up very slowly, it's just as dead simple as most turn based MMOs at low levels (and remains so for some classes even at high levels). I got them all to around lvl 25 or so, i just felt the classes became overbalanced once i got outside bree doing the same quests with each i couldn't find any angles to play for each of them, not sure if this explains it any better
In any case, I do not think the combat in LoTRO would be imrpoved in the slighest by moving away from the turn based model. Changing the combat so drastically this late in the games life would be an absolutely enourmous NGE style f up. any game that changes gameplay after people invest time and money in it opens itself up to some really bad press, but personally do think the game could benefit from a bit more complexity in its character customisation options(which could explain why i felt the classes where overbalanced)
Wow, this is how you have a conversation on a message board. I was beginning to wonder if anyone here could do it.
The character customization got a big boost in MoM. Traits now unlock set bonuses in addition to what they used to do. The set bonuses are a lot more powerful than the old line bonuses. In theory every class has at least three different spec lines that play very differently available. However in practice this is not true for many classes. For example I can't imagine any sane Loremaster going down the debuf line. But still, with that and the LI system things have improved.
As far as different classes being able to approach quests differently, I can see you point. 90% of the time your strategy is run in and kill stuff either to get stuff from their corpses or gather items nearby. That really doesn't change from one class to another (is that what you meant)? Sure a Burgler can sometimes sneak in and get stuff instead of killing (and a Hobbit or Elf of any class can also do that with the right equipment after a certain level), but that's about as divergent as running the same quest will get.
The only time different classes will use radically different basic strategies is when you are trying to do something at the edge of your ability (get to something that requires you to pull three guys at once for example..or solo a gnarly elite). And at low levels you don't have the tools to do something like that in the first place, so you tend to either have an easy time of it or run for your life. I'd say that's true of most MMOs when you come to it, and it's certainly one of my gripes about the genre. LoTRO is certainly no better than any other turn based MMO in that respect.
As an aside, I'd recommend a Burg to you if you every try the game again. It's a very complex class that requires a lot of forethought to play. The fact that they have relaibe stealth also allows them to sometimes approach quests differently than most classes would.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
What follows is a suggestion I submitted to the crafting forums in LotRO many moons ago. Unfortunately, it seems like Turbine's solution to the crafting dilemma is to keep tossing in more recipes with each release.
Who wants to spend days/weeks hunting for coordinating recipe variants that differ only in aesthetic appearance (or the alternative of spending multiple gold trying to buy the hundreds of new recipes at auction)?
Instead I propose a much more custom crafting UI that mimics the character creation panel, where, depending on the particular piece of armour to be crafted, you can select from a variety of pre-defined skins for multiple elements of the one armour piece. Each recipe could have unique options to that piece of armour (just the way that if I want to create a Dwarf from the White Mountains, I have a different set of options for hair, nose, eyes, coloring, etc. than I do when creating a Harfoot Hobbit). You shouldn't be able to make a Bronze Armour piece that looks exactly like an Mirrored Ancient Armour piece, but you could then have almost as many different variants of Mirrored Ancient Armour as you do in Character appearance.
This, to me, seems to be much more in the spirit of true craftsmanship, allowing the craftsman to make truly unique, made-to-order pieces, while exercising his/her own creativity within the bounds of a broad set of rules. It would also make crafting much more of an experience, something other than just a grind for materials and a crossing of the fingers hoping for a crit.
I also think to go along with this, a craftsman should be able to "design" a particular item and then share that design via the chat box where anyone could CTRL-Click the item and "try it on" in a much more detailed paper-doll preview window with zoom-in/zoom-out capabilites, etc. Either that or allow a craftsman to invite a person into a "crafting fellowship" where that person can see a live preview of the design as the crafter is tweaking it to be just right. This could be a private instance at the crafting facility or just an overlay, but it would allow the "customer" and the crafter to collaborate on a piece until they can agree on a particular look.
I know that I have made this sound like it should only apply to armour pieces, but it could apply equally to custom weapons as well, where, for example, I could choose from a set of 10 options for the shaft, 10 options for the head, 5 options for the grip, and 5 options for the "effect" (e.g., glowing, sparkling, shimmering, flaming, etc.) of a particular one-handed axe. You could even allow a "color picker" to choose custom effect colors (something more than just white, green, and red).
It would also make sense to me to make the number of options as well as the variety to increase with the level/tier of the crafted item (e.g., Tier 1 items might only allow for two or three categories of customization with only 3-4 options for each category, where as a Tier 5 item might allow for six or seven categories of customization with 15-20 options in each category). Thus, as my skill as a craftsman advances, so does my ability to "customize" the items I can craft. You could even allow for the specification of optional effects/design parameters unique to critted items, so if you "crit" an item you unlock additional design options that are not available on normal versions of the same item.
I understand that this would be basically a complete redesign of the crafting system from the ground up, but it would sure make it a lot more enjoyable, allow the crafter to showcase his/her talent as a designer/craftsman, and satisfy the need for variety and uniqueness in character appearance in-game, while completely circumventing the need to manage/acquire hundreds of "unique" recipes that really aren't unique, but merely produce a different look for items with identical stats.
Originally posted by Yeebo I meant purely in comparison to other MMOs with turn based combat (WoW, EQ II, ect. as you say). That should have been pretty clear from the last line of my post. Yep, but after posting in these forums i've found it best to clarify at times And if you really couldn't tell any difference in the gameplay between 1. a fairly simple single target DPS class with limited crowd control abilities 2. a tank with two different primary combo chains that are activated by different reactives and where the combo chains have switch points leading to different outcomes (for example a high threat attack or a self heal off of a block activated chain). 3. and a class that in parties has to manage a pet as well as decide whether to heal, cure, DPS, debuff, stun targets, or hand out power buffs (and really needs to keep on top of all of them to be working at full potential). ...I would suggest that you didn't get far enough to see what these classes really can do, or that I very badly misinterpreted what you meant. For example, as I recall at low levels Gaurdians don't have a single combo chain, much less two reactive ones with branch points. The complexity in LoTRO ramps up very slowly, it's just as dead simple as most turn based MMOs at low levels (and remains so for some classes even at high levels). I got them all to around lvl 25 or so, i just felt the classes became overbalanced once i got outside bree doing the same quests with each i couldn't find any angles to play for each of them, not sure if this explains it any better In any case, I do not think the combat in LoTRO would be imrpoved in the slighest by moving away from the turn based model. Changing the combat so drastically this late in the games life would be an absolutely enourmous NGE style f up. any game that changes gameplay after people invest time and money in it opens itself up to some really bad press, but personally do think the game could benefit from a bit more complexity in its character customisation options(which could explain why i felt the classes where overbalanced)
Wow, this is how you have a conversation on a message board. I was beginning to wonder if anyone here could do it.
The character customization got a big boost in MoM. Traits now unlock set bonuses in addition to what they used to do. The set bonuses are a lot more powerful than the old line bonuses. In theory every class has at least three different spec lines that play very differently available. However in practice this is not true for many classes. For example I can't imagine any sane Loremaster going down the debuf line. But still, with that and the LI system things have improved.
As far as different classes being able to approach quests differently, I can see you point. 90% of the time your strategy is run in and kill stuff either to get stuff from their corpses or gather items nearby. That really doesn't change from one class to another (is that what you meant)? Sure a Burgler can sometimes sneak in and get stuff instead of killing (and a Hobbit or Elf of any class can also do that with the right equipment after a certain level), but that's about as divergent as running the same quest will get. yep, I really wanted a class to grab me so i could play it through the rest of the game
The only time different classes will use radically different basic strategies is when you are trying to do something at the edge of your ability (get to something that requires you to pull three guys at once for example..or solo a gnarly elite). And at low levels you don't have the tools to do something like that in the first place, so you tend to either have an easy time of it or run for your life. I'd say that's true of most MMOs when you come to it, and it's certainly one of my gripes about the genre. LoTRO is certainly no better than any other turn based MMO in that respect. certainly agree with this, there are the odd couple i've tried that do things differently but they never seem to have the money behind them for development and marketing
As an aside, I'd recommend a Burg to you if you every try the game again. It's a very complex class that requires a lot of forethought to play. The fact that they have relaibe stealth also allows them to sometimes approach quests differently than most classes would. cool, i went for the lore-master as the guide said it was difficult to play, maybe will give burg another try if i come back
i still have my copy of lotro and don't intend getting rid of it any time soon and am still keeping my eye on it to see how it develops(am waiting for earthrise atm, but experience has taught me not to get my hopes up)
I'm going to largely echo the other posters here. LotRO is what it is. Personally, I'd love to see an MMG with a combat system similar to Mount & Blade or Oblivion. LotRO is not that game. Once the game is out the door, you don't up and toss out the basic gameplay on the users. Insert obligatory NGE reference.
That being said, I would like to add:
Imagine being able to dodge some of the enemy arrows by doing a roll to the ground, or by simply turning your body to the side at the last moment.
Try playing a War Mage or archer in Asheron's Call (1999). Projectile have actual physics, and can be dodged by side-stepping. Bows use ammo, and arrows that fail to hit a mob stick where they hit and can be recovered later. PVP between mages largely consists of FPS-style circle-strafing.
FPS sucks. Please do't do that. Combat can be dynamic and fun in 3rd person. Look at Fallout 3.
you dont need to reinvent PvP and combata. the Monster play is ingenious, but you guys are doing it all wrong. There is no real loss on death. Until you can figure out a real loss on death, and balance out the Monsters vs players, then Monster Play will be screwed up.
Some very well thought out ideas though. Crafting could def use an overhaul. Design would be awesome. Texturing though may be going overboard.
Has the author of this article learned nothing from SWG? It's the worst idea in the world to totally change a game like he's suggested. SWG went from a dice-based combat to a twitch-based combat, and look what happened to it?
I really don't understand why people keep asking for twitch-based combat in RPGs. These are not FPS action games, they are roleplaying games! They are about advancing characters and choosing the right abilities in the right situations, not about whether you can click the mouse as fast as someone else.
I completely agree with the disagreement posts. Please don't change LOTRO so drastically that it becomes a whole new game. That's not what we want. Instead, try to focus on making our current game of choice for 2-years now into what it could and should be. Where to start? Try actually updating the UI like you promised over a year ago so that it's at least on par with standard MMO UIs. Right now, it's well below standard and in need of much love. And as far as crafting...I loathed EQ2 crafting and that's exactly what he's talking about. No thank you.
Amen, i play MMOs for fun. I dont want to spend 8 hours crafting a sheild ill outlevel in a weekend or need to spend 4 hours killign a boar. I just. want. to. have. fun.
LotRO, while continuing to receive periodic free updates, improvements and new content, plus a retail (about $30US) paid expansion about once a year, won't ever get the complete makeover as the writer of this article suggests. Beyond "wouldn't it be kewl if.." and while the author does make some good points, the reality of life is that an NGE-type of "makeover" for LotRO is impractical, if not impossible, unless developers pretty much start designing these things with a clean slate. Do we think Turbine will ever come out with a "LotRO 2?" Nope. Yet, for many of us long-time residents of the LotRO MMORPG (I've been in this MMO since early closed beta and have been a Lifetime Founder since day one), many of the recent "updates" and the "improvements" planned for Volume 2 are at least as often viewed as bitter rather than sweet. The problems started with Mines of Moria and it seems to be continuing to move in the wrong direction. Instancing is a crutch that's being overdone -- no matter what the dev journals say, if it looks like a dog, barks like a dog and bites like a dog, it's a dog. If we wanted instanced-everything, we'd be playing Age of Conan. LotRO is alarming many by moving ever so strongly toward Raiding, hoping to lure the pubescents and the rest of the hardcore like-minded who couldn't care les about the journey, they ignore the lore, they can't be bothered to smell the flowers, all they want is max level, max gear ASAP -- to raid. More large-scale raids as an entity onto itself where, in their minds, the only items worthwhile for your avatar are raid rewards. Step-by-step, the new regime in charge of LotRO is further alienating themselves from the core premise that players could grind/hunt for, quest and craft equipment comparible to those received in raids. The only explanation for this is that the Turbine Team has deluded themselves into thinking this is what LotRO players want. The reality of life, however, is that we'd all be playing WoW, not LotRO, if we wanted a raid-centric MMO. LotRO should hold true to it's roots -- the core values and systems that both the LoTRO MMO and the LotRO community were founded on. Change is not always a good thing.
EXACTLY! LOTRO has gone downhill since the realase of Moria IMO. I enjoyed LOTRO at the beginning and slowly grew to dislike the direction Turbine was taking.
LOTRO for me is a huge dissapointment...My wish is that Turbine will one day drop it and let a different company take over. Until that happens I likely won't return.
Ideas to enhance LOTRO gameplay? Fire Turbine and let a different company steer LOTRO in the direction it belongs. Until that happens LOTRO will always be just another average MMO which sucks in the Tolkien fans. Those who could care less about Tolkien see LOTRO for what it really is....another average MMO with great graphics.
I enjoy LotRO for a variety of reasons, too numerous to list here.
The combat system has improved, somewhat, but the level disparities are becoming worse. I hate the idea of becoming so powerful that I am immune to what used to be lethal attacks. Well-designed and fun zones soon become trivial, like the Barrow Downs and the Old Forest. While some elite zones still remain off limits without a great group...
The crafting system is an awful grind, having to make hundreds of trash items out of thousands resources just to advance. I wish the reputation and trait system worked better with it.
I also remember when gear didn't make as much difference, it didn't modify character stats. It's a shame that it became gear-centric like the rest of the pack. (AoC is making the same changes now too ~sighs~)
I think Turbine's biggest mistake was trying to intertwine the game with the story, and therefore is very restricticted by the existing plot and Lore. They could've done it like Matrix Online (bad game but it has some neat ideas) and made the game a continuation of the story. If the game had been set in the Fourth Age, after the Ring is destroyed, then they would have had many more options, even for RvR.
Comments
Amazing. I was just thinking about this the other day. Something along the lines of your rep with with different groups, depending how much rep would = X number of 'leadership' points that you could spend on that races NPC troops. 1 recruit = 1 pt, 1 mounted = 5 pt etc.... You could have a large group of rabble or a small group of mounted elites and run the quest with them.
If they did a free zone area just think of the large scale army battles you could have
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
But are they trying to suck in an additional subscriber base or throwing something out there for players already in the game?
If you look through the O-forum threads you'll see comments like 'maxed out in a month' , 'will make it to level 20 by the end of my first day', 'have an alt at 35 already after a couple of weeks' etc... etc...
Now they could be raid-centric players like you mentioned or non-lore carer's or just have way too much time on thier hands. No matter which they fit they will eventually hit the ceiling and either do alts which will go through the material even faster the 2nd or 3rd time through or they'll leave the game.
OR Turbine can throw out dungeon raids for them to play in while they make the next book. Which is better? They go bye-bye or play off to the side?
If Turbine can make it so the gear the crafters make is just as good as the raid gear then 'both ' games will be supported. And as long as we don't start hearing the 'LFF for X, must have this, this and this' I could care less what they do.
Not everyone is going to truely care about the lore. If you polled the player base right now I'm sure less than 30% will have even read the books. The rest will only know the name from the movies.
I would honestly say right now that LotRO is a niche game. It is seen; pretty much the same way you described it, as a game for those ONLY interested in The Lord of the Rings. Now I don't think that's a bad thing as I kind of like the less people clutter thing, but from Turbines point of (financial) view ....... not really a good thing.
Turbine is going to make changes. I may not like some of them, others won't effect me (raids), others will be so what (Pvp). Like you said, as long as we don't see an NGE explosion, I can probably work around most of it.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
First off, while I can understand some of the criticism about instancing, I think many are losing sight of a couple of things.
For one thing, Moria was a massive expansion with absolutely ridiculous amounts of things to do and places to go. Yeah the hardcore types chewed it up pretty fast, but that is hardly new to any MMO. I agree there hasn't been a lot of new stuff post Moria, but on the one hand they have had a lot of balancing, tweaking and bug fixing to do and on the other, I see the "lull" as a bit like a dev team taking a deep breath. I have faith that the next wave of expansion will reflect some things learned from MoM.
Secondly, a substantial portion of the LotRO player base is calling for MORE raids - that's not a move to attract WoW players, it's listening to what a lot of current subscribers say they want. Also, LotRO does a lot of work with smaller raids - the 3 and 6 man instances, to me those aren't really "raids" at all. LotRO still has very very few 12man+ raids. There are also serious rumors in the works about "scaling instances" that would scale mob difficulty from 2-3 players to 8-10 etc.
I'll agree the post MoM content is pretty thin right now, but I have faith that it will grow rapidly soon
sorry, my bad, I forgot that this is one of the two main selling points for atlantica online
oh, well will still keep an eye on it to see how it's done
I meant purely in comparison to other MMOs with turn based combat (WoW, EQ II, ect. as you say). That should have been pretty clear from the last line of my post. Yep, but after posting in these forums i've found it best to clarify at times
And if you really couldn't tell any difference in the gameplay between
1. a fairly simple single target DPS class with limited crowd control abilities
2. a tank with two different primary combo chains that are activated by different reactives and where the combo chains have switch points leading to different outcomes (for example a high threat attack or a self heal off of a block activated chain).
3. and a class that in parties has to manage a pet as well as decide whether to heal, cure, DPS, debuff, stun targets, or hand out power buffs (and really needs to keep on top of all of them to be working at full potential).
...I would suggest that you didn't get far enough to see what these classes really can do, or that I very badly misinterpreted what you meant. For example, as I recall at low levels Gaurdians don't have a single combo chain, much less two reactive ones with branch points. The complexity in LoTRO ramps up very slowly, it's just as dead simple as most turn based MMOs at low levels (and remains so for some classes even at high levels). I got them all to around lvl 25 or so, i just felt the classes became overbalanced once i got outside bree doing the same quests with each i couldn't find any angles to play for each of them, not sure if this explains it any better
In any case, I do not think the combat in LoTRO would be imrpoved in the slighest by moving away from the turn based model. Changing the combat so drastically this late in the games life would be an absolutely enourmous NGE style f up. any game that changes gameplay after people invest time and money in it opens itself up to some really bad press, but personally do think the game could benefit from a bit more complexity in its character customisation options(which could explain why i felt the classes where overbalanced)
Wow, this is how you have a conversation on a message board. I was beginning to wonder if anyone here could do it.
The character customization got a big boost in MoM. Traits now unlock set bonuses in addition to what they used to do. The set bonuses are a lot more powerful than the old line bonuses. In theory every class has at least three different spec lines that play very differently available. However in practice this is not true for many classes. For example I can't imagine any sane Loremaster going down the debuf line. But still, with that and the LI system things have improved.
As far as different classes being able to approach quests differently, I can see you point. 90% of the time your strategy is run in and kill stuff either to get stuff from their corpses or gather items nearby. That really doesn't change from one class to another (is that what you meant)? Sure a Burgler can sometimes sneak in and get stuff instead of killing (and a Hobbit or Elf of any class can also do that with the right equipment after a certain level), but that's about as divergent as running the same quest will get.
The only time different classes will use radically different basic strategies is when you are trying to do something at the edge of your ability (get to something that requires you to pull three guys at once for example..or solo a gnarly elite). And at low levels you don't have the tools to do something like that in the first place, so you tend to either have an easy time of it or run for your life. I'd say that's true of most MMOs when you come to it, and it's certainly one of my gripes about the genre. LoTRO is certainly no better than any other turn based MMO in that respect.
As an aside, I'd recommend a Burg to you if you every try the game again. It's a very complex class that requires a lot of forethought to play. The fact that they have relaibe stealth also allows them to sometimes approach quests differently than most classes would.
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
What follows is a suggestion I submitted to the crafting forums in LotRO many moons ago. Unfortunately, it seems like Turbine's solution to the crafting dilemma is to keep tossing in more recipes with each release.
Who wants to spend days/weeks hunting for coordinating recipe variants that differ only in aesthetic appearance (or the alternative of spending multiple gold trying to buy the hundreds of new recipes at auction)?
Instead I propose a much more custom crafting UI that mimics the character creation panel, where, depending on the particular piece of armour to be crafted, you can select from a variety of pre-defined skins for multiple elements of the one armour piece. Each recipe could have unique options to that piece of armour (just the way that if I want to create a Dwarf from the White Mountains, I have a different set of options for hair, nose, eyes, coloring, etc. than I do when creating a Harfoot Hobbit). You shouldn't be able to make a Bronze Armour piece that looks exactly like an Mirrored Ancient Armour piece, but you could then have almost as many different variants of Mirrored Ancient Armour as you do in Character appearance.
This, to me, seems to be much more in the spirit of true craftsmanship, allowing the craftsman to make truly unique, made-to-order pieces, while exercising his/her own creativity within the bounds of a broad set of rules. It would also make crafting much more of an experience, something other than just a grind for materials and a crossing of the fingers hoping for a crit.
I also think to go along with this, a craftsman should be able to "design" a particular item and then share that design via the chat box where anyone could CTRL-Click the item and "try it on" in a much more detailed paper-doll preview window with zoom-in/zoom-out capabilites, etc. Either that or allow a craftsman to invite a person into a "crafting fellowship" where that person can see a live preview of the design as the crafter is tweaking it to be just right. This could be a private instance at the crafting facility or just an overlay, but it would allow the "customer" and the crafter to collaborate on a piece until they can agree on a particular look.
I know that I have made this sound like it should only apply to armour pieces, but it could apply equally to custom weapons as well, where, for example, I could choose from a set of 10 options for the shaft, 10 options for the head, 5 options for the grip, and 5 options for the "effect" (e.g., glowing, sparkling, shimmering, flaming, etc.) of a particular one-handed axe. You could even allow a "color picker" to choose custom effect colors (something more than just white, green, and red).
It would also make sense to me to make the number of options as well as the variety to increase with the level/tier of the crafted item (e.g., Tier 1 items might only allow for two or three categories of customization with only 3-4 options for each category, where as a Tier 5 item might allow for six or seven categories of customization with 15-20 options in each category). Thus, as my skill as a craftsman advances, so does my ability to "customize" the items I can craft. You could even allow for the specification of optional effects/design parameters unique to critted items, so if you "crit" an item you unlock additional design options that are not available on normal versions of the same item.
I understand that this would be basically a complete redesign of the crafting system from the ground up, but it would sure make it a lot more enjoyable, allow the crafter to showcase his/her talent as a designer/craftsman, and satisfy the need for variety and uniqueness in character appearance in-game, while completely circumventing the need to manage/acquire hundreds of "unique" recipes that really aren't unique, but merely produce a different look for items with identical stats.
<img src='http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000019ab9/01007/signature.png'></img>;
Wow, this is how you have a conversation on a message board. I was beginning to wonder if anyone here could do it.
The character customization got a big boost in MoM. Traits now unlock set bonuses in addition to what they used to do. The set bonuses are a lot more powerful than the old line bonuses. In theory every class has at least three different spec lines that play very differently available. However in practice this is not true for many classes. For example I can't imagine any sane Loremaster going down the debuf line. But still, with that and the LI system things have improved.
As far as different classes being able to approach quests differently, I can see you point. 90% of the time your strategy is run in and kill stuff either to get stuff from their corpses or gather items nearby. That really doesn't change from one class to another (is that what you meant)? Sure a Burgler can sometimes sneak in and get stuff instead of killing (and a Hobbit or Elf of any class can also do that with the right equipment after a certain level), but that's about as divergent as running the same quest will get. yep, I really wanted a class to grab me so i could play it through the rest of the game
The only time different classes will use radically different basic strategies is when you are trying to do something at the edge of your ability (get to something that requires you to pull three guys at once for example..or solo a gnarly elite). And at low levels you don't have the tools to do something like that in the first place, so you tend to either have an easy time of it or run for your life. I'd say that's true of most MMOs when you come to it, and it's certainly one of my gripes about the genre. LoTRO is certainly no better than any other turn based MMO in that respect. certainly agree with this, there are the odd couple i've tried that do things differently but they never seem to have the money behind them for development and marketing
As an aside, I'd recommend a Burg to you if you every try the game again. It's a very complex class that requires a lot of forethought to play. The fact that they have relaibe stealth also allows them to sometimes approach quests differently than most classes would. cool, i went for the lore-master as the guide said it was difficult to play, maybe will give burg another try if i come back
i still have my copy of lotro and don't intend getting rid of it any time soon and am still keeping my eye on it to see how it develops(am waiting for earthrise atm, but experience has taught me not to get my hopes up)
have fun
and kick some orc a**e
I'm going to largely echo the other posters here. LotRO is what it is. Personally, I'd love to see an MMG with a combat system similar to Mount & Blade or Oblivion. LotRO is not that game. Once the game is out the door, you don't up and toss out the basic gameplay on the users. Insert obligatory NGE reference.
That being said, I would like to add:
Imagine being able to dodge some of the enemy arrows by doing a roll to the ground, or by simply turning your body to the side at the last moment.
Try playing a War Mage or archer in Asheron's Call (1999). Projectile have actual physics, and can be dodged by side-stepping. Bows use ammo, and arrows that fail to hit a mob stick where they hit and can be recovered later. PVP between mages largely consists of FPS-style circle-strafing.
FPS sucks. Please do't do that. Combat can be dynamic and fun in 3rd person. Look at Fallout 3.
you dont need to reinvent PvP and combata. the Monster play is ingenious, but you guys are doing it all wrong. There is no real loss on death. Until you can figure out a real loss on death, and balance out the Monsters vs players, then Monster Play will be screwed up.
Some very well thought out ideas though. Crafting could def use an overhaul. Design would be awesome. Texturing though may be going overboard.
Shadowlord Sage
CmdrAkbar
Napa Valley, UO, 1997.
Has the author of this article learned nothing from SWG? It's the worst idea in the world to totally change a game like he's suggested. SWG went from a dice-based combat to a twitch-based combat, and look what happened to it?
I really don't understand why people keep asking for twitch-based combat in RPGs. These are not FPS action games, they are roleplaying games! They are about advancing characters and choosing the right abilities in the right situations, not about whether you can click the mouse as fast as someone else.
Completely disagree about making combat mechanics so complex and complicated ... other reasons why have been already said by others. :-))
Amen, i play MMOs for fun. I dont want to spend 8 hours crafting a sheild ill outlevel in a weekend or need to spend 4 hours killign a boar. I just. want. to. have. fun.
EXACTLY! LOTRO has gone downhill since the realase of Moria IMO. I enjoyed LOTRO at the beginning and slowly grew to dislike the direction Turbine was taking.
LOTRO for me is a huge dissapointment...My wish is that Turbine will one day drop it and let a different company take over. Until that happens I likely won't return.
Ideas to enhance LOTRO gameplay? Fire Turbine and let a different company steer LOTRO in the direction it belongs. Until that happens LOTRO will always be just another average MMO which sucks in the Tolkien fans. Those who could care less about Tolkien see LOTRO for what it really is....another average MMO with great graphics.
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
I enjoy LotRO for a variety of reasons, too numerous to list here.
The combat system has improved, somewhat, but the level disparities are becoming worse. I hate the idea of becoming so powerful that I am immune to what used to be lethal attacks. Well-designed and fun zones soon become trivial, like the Barrow Downs and the Old Forest. While some elite zones still remain off limits without a great group...
The crafting system is an awful grind, having to make hundreds of trash items out of thousands resources just to advance. I wish the reputation and trait system worked better with it.
I also remember when gear didn't make as much difference, it didn't modify character stats. It's a shame that it became gear-centric like the rest of the pack. (AoC is making the same changes now too ~sighs~)
I think Turbine's biggest mistake was trying to intertwine the game with the story, and therefore is very restricticted by the existing plot and Lore. They could've done it like Matrix Online (bad game but it has some neat ideas) and made the game a continuation of the story. If the game had been set in the Fourth Age, after the Ring is destroyed, then they would have had many more options, even for RvR.
TSW, LotRO, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, V:SoH, Neverwinter, ArchAge, EQ, UO, DAoC, WAR, DDO, AoC, MO, BDO, SotA, B&S, ESO,