Im in the same boat. I jump back and forth between MMO's like im looking for something that isnt there. As someone put it the "magic" just isnt there anymore. Its single player console games for me for awhile, in fact just started playing Ratchet and Clank. Hopefully something will surface for us all down the road. Good luck to all.
Yeah I've been playing alot of Madden NFL and Street Fighter IV on my 360 with my brother (Great games to play with friends and a couple cases of beer lol).
Just some simple fun until I find something that can hold me.
I remember some of your early posts about WAR. You were one of the most excited people I've ever read about it. It sounded like you found your long lost soulmate, lol.
A few weeks later, your posts went down in enthusiasm until you finally posted you quit. I remember you saying you were disappointed at that because of its potential. I see plenty of people post that way. After Vanguard same thing happened. And AoC. And Tabula Rasa. And Shadowbane. Etc, etc, etc.
I think that may have had something to do with why you are sour on MMOs. It's like breaking up with a girl you were dating for a bit that broke your heart. You really don't want to date much after that and look at things critically.
Just give it a little time. AION will be better than WAR guaranteed and there are a few others coming out different enough that you would want to try them. Fallen Earth, Champions Online, maybe Mortal Online.
I just think WAR kicked you in the nuts and now you whince everytime you see a boot.
To this day I still recommend WAR to anyone I meet that is looking to break into the genre.
WAR was an amazing experience for me, It was one of the only games that actually gave me a choice in the way I wanted to level.
I could quest, instance pvp, Orvr or group up for PQs it gave me variety and I truely enjoyed that game.
My problem was with the lack of people to play with, WAR has all these really fun features but they require actual players to enjoy them.
After a week of solo questing and grinding stage 1 PQs with a healing spec Shaman I gave it up.
It's a shame really.
So no the game didn't kick me in the nuts it was the lack of players that drove me from the game.
In the beginning your cup is very small and it takes little to fill it. As you grow your cup gets bigger and the same amount will not fill it anymore. I think a lot of us are waiting for something to come along and fill our cups again. (For those confused by my analogy, the cup is your expectation.)
good post, I kinda agree.
Obviously my oldschool mmo self would be dissapointed with todays mmos but i've become bored with mmo basic mechanics along with whatever hook devs toss at me.
I no longer have my high expectations, I would settle for a fun game tbh.
Simple solution. Find a new hobby. I used to collect star wars figures. Then I stopped having fun playing with them. So I stopped buying them. But I didn't get mad at Kenner because I grew up.
I sometimes have trouble expressing myself through text, did my post come off as me being mad at MMO developers?
Same here, MMO right now offer nothing I haven't already done in EQ. The leveling, classes, high-fantasy, solo -> group -> raid, holy trinity (tank/healer/dps) is all copied from EQ. I don't get how reviewers even tolerate this garbage anymore. Stuff like Aion getting good reviews seriously bothers me, how many time can you copy the same games and how long can the same old companies hold the strangehold on MMO games. I do play Street Gears though, it's a roller blade MMO and pretty fun. MMO do not need to be the same thing over and over, but as long as the same companies (SoE, Blizzard, NCsoft) have the biggest budgets, they don't care and will keep making the same crap and the same people will keep buying it.
What gets me is that you seem to imply that these games (such as Aion) don't deserve good reviews... that the market which buys these games is ruining the market for you... (which implies they are wrong about something). The simple fact could be there is a large segment of people who actually enjoy these games... and will think Aion is great (and deserves great reviews). So how are you (or I) to say they are wrong or that these games don't deserve *insert random thing* because "we" don't like them... *edited for some clarity*
I've dealt with this for a long time.. because EQ was crap (my opinon). Ultima Online had the better set of "core systems" and could have taken the "learn from mistakes made and improve" course...
But the masses didn't want that or never knew it... didn't agree with me whatever. When you look at the money (not claimed player base) that Blizzard is raking in... financials released every quarter to back it up... Its not hard to figure out why games are not really evolving.
70 to 100 million to create a game... investors don't want to take a risk on "different" because if it doesn't hit the mark.... they might as well have instested in a Ponzi scheme.
That's just market reality....
I miss my C64... back when multiple games I wanted to buy came out every month... every kind of game you could think of. Now I'm lucky if there is 1 or more games a year I want to buy.
I mean I guess I share your feelings to a great extent.. but there is a reality that they aren't going to make a game for me and 200,000 friends.... if they think they can get 500,000 or 1,000,000 building the clone.
Its really not about selling it to consumers... you'd have to convince the investors to build this game you think you want... you won't do that here... I'm not even sure how you'd get the attention of that crowd.
I am the same way. I am back to playing EQ1 again.
None of the new MMOs can keep me longer then a month. I get bored or realize it will not get better at higher levels. I was thinking that maybe it was me and maybe my MMO days are over but then I see post like this and realize its the genre not me. The Genre has gotten stale. Its the same game with different skins.
Like many others have said, some developer needs to step up and smell the roses and make something new.
I am watching Citadel of Sorcery very closely even though it is still early in development the Developer seems to be heading in the right direction. I hope they can accomplish their goals as I think that it will be game that many players have been waiting for.
Only a few games look good enough to check out.
Mortal Online
Citadel of Sorcery
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Maybe in the next couple of years we will get that "magic" back in MMOs. I have to keep hope alive. This is my favorite hobby besides hockey.
Thing is that since I started playing MMOs 10ish years ago, nothing really changed. The graphics got better, in most cases sound did not and that's about it. The underlying core mechanics are almost the same and it is only a matter of time before you realise that whenever you play a new game, you are doing the same things you've already done a million times before, and they are just not neither fun, nor convincing anymore.
Single player RPGs have one huge thing going for them and that is story and your involvement in it. You can create two games with same gfx engine, even same characters within the same world, but if you change the story it will be two entirely different games and both of them would be interesting to you, because in single player RPGs, the whish to uncover "what happens next" is what drives you forward. Sme goes with books or movies.
Imagine if the movie you are watching had the exactly same story, in a differently named world, with different actors, and from the very start you would know the ending because you saw the other movie 5 times. Once your curriosity wears down you would feel utterly bored, and you would have less and less tolerance for the same thing.
Sadly, story and the way MMOs present it have not progressed much. Yes there is this general background about the world for people that are interesting on reading things, but it doesn't mean squat, your actions mean squat and nothing really resolves or godforbid further complicates itself. You find yourself in a state of limbo where nothing really happens and nothing really matters. All that drives you forward is the whish to attain some artificial number that states how much hours you sat infront of the screen killing wolves, bears, rats, skeletons, followed by dangerous wolves, bears, rats and skelletons etc.
Once you do that for a couple of times in a few different games you realise that you are just moving stones from one pile to another, paying for doing it and try convincing yourself that it's fun.
I all but stopped playing MMOs, feeling that playing single player games at this point offer me way more fun and the expirience of playing either Fallout 3, Fable 2 or Mass effect, can not be compared to whatever any MMO has to offer at that time. I'm keeping my eye on games in development and thats about it.
Same thing is happening to me right now. I just no longer care nor are most mmorpgs fun. A few things here and there poke my interest but its no where near what it used to be.
This is a really interesting thread for me. I've been feeling the same way for a while, but just kinda assumed I was more-or-less alone in that. Obviously, it's more widespread than I realized.
I'm still in love with this genre. I've had some amazing times in EQ and EQ2, as well as some shorter stints in games such as Vanguard, WAR, and others, but the mere thought of re-subbing to any of these games makes me bored. There really aren't many games on the horizon that I have any interest in either, with the possible exception of Mortal Online, yet for some reason I can't stop reading these forums and researching every new game to be announced.
I'm sure it has a lot to do with the nostalgia of the old games I used to play. I remember the good times and forget the bad, and have perhaps an unfairly high standard set for any new game I play. Newer games never seem to have the "magic" I remember from the past.
Ahh well, I'm sure something will eventually come along that captures my attention. In the meantime, single-player games will do just fine.
I can't really explain it. I've been playing MMOs since UO, From sandbox to themepark. I've played near everything and enjoyed Most in some way or another. I used to look forward to having a bit of free time in the evening to jump on a good old MMO and Adventure and chat it up with my guild. I had all this motivation to level skills or farm Items or rep. I don't know where it all went wrong to be honest. I thought it was the attraction of single player games being so high tech now but thats not it. I log into a MMO now and it seems like i'm just wasting my time by playing a game that promises fun later on, wading through grind or repetitive actions only designed to keep me paying and playing but not delivering anything close to an enjoyable experience. 12 years of MMOs and now I can't even stand being logged into one of these games more than 10 minutes...... I don't get it.
When I get burned out on MMORPGs, I usually find a good single player game like Mass Effect to get the story and immersion. For PvP, I will fire up TF2 for a few hours, and for community, I can just come here and chat about what was, what is, and what may become of one of my favorite genres. But yeah, I can sympathize with players like the OP here. I think it'd be cool to have an Age of Wonders or Civilizations MMO, but with roleplaying elements and twitch combat incorporated somehow.
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mmo's try to cover too many audience's, casual, hardcore, pvp, and should focus more on quality game play. You dont need to come up with the next big thing. There's nothing wrong with copying something that works as long as what your copying is fun. Thats what mmo's lack today, fun.
I feel the same exact way. I just go with the thought that I want to be back playing UO and having those times relived again. It is just nostalgia. Younger and less opinionated back then has be replaced by age and more jadedness.
Speaking only for myself, I know whyI feel this way.
I don't believe the genre is the same. I don't want to be the one categorizing anything, but in my opinion, most people over-simplify things on this website. Virtual-world, themeparks and terms like casuals, hardcore etc are thrown around with different meaning all the time. Even complexity or dumbed-down are not represented well, or are explained poorly
The way i see mmorpgs is similar to games like Falcon 4.0AF compared to Tom Clancy's HAWX, or Armed Assault to Battlefield 2. Falcon and HAWX are flying games. When you pull on the stick of your controller, your nose goes, up, you radar lock targets, select missiles, get into range and fire. In Armed Assualt adn BF2, they are FPS in modern war, all twitch, with one shot head shot capabilites with the objective of killing opposing players. But in in HAWX, there is no long flight to the objective, the radar is automated and easy to use, the speed is exaggerated and so are basically all other capabilities. Basically the same as Armed Assualt and BF2. In other words, one is more arcadish than the other, and the action is much more accessable faster.
Here's the thing though, I like both styles a lot. I have many hours on all those games, and enjoy and recommend them to everyone. I don't view BF2 as dumbed down to Armed Assault, its just different. Sometimes I dont feel like flying 1 hour through heavy defenses just to drop my bomb in Falcon. The general gameplay and graphics are BF2 and HAWX compared to Armed Assault and Falcon are also way better and smoother. I would never dispute this. But for myself, I personally prefer Armed Assault and Falcon over the other two. Also, I can't take BF2 and HAWX for very long. They are great fun, but in small doses. I have been playing Falcon for years, and Armed Assault for a year as well. HAWX was fun a couple times, and I have about 100 hours in BF2. I think since everything is immediate, and fast, without much purpose, I tire of them quickly.
And this is true with mmorpgs for me as well. I really enjoyed LOTRO, Warhammer and WoW. I don't understand all the bashing frankly, but it doesnt bother me. But the common thing is that these games all died out on me quite fast, just like BF2 or HAWX. The gameplay is way better than the old mmos too, in my opinion, but i found this boredom common to all new titles that have come out. So to use my Falcon 4.0 analogy again, I think in the interests of attracting more gamers ( not mmorpg players exclusively ) they got rid of the tedious things like the difference between it and HAWX. No mid-air refueling, no long flights, no navigation, no landing. Those things are tedious. But they make the game for me.
I found all the thing that current gamers complain about the old games, tedious as well. But I think that removing them has made these games feel less complex, even though there was nothing complex about the systems in place before. What they did though, was provide structure for the social elements. I love combat, and play these games for combat. But since this is the sole focus now, i burn out on them fast. Warhammer felt like BF2 to me, as i was just loggin in for pvp. So that lasted about 6 weeks.
In my opinion, the innovation should have been in making those tedious systems more interesting, but instead, they just got rid of them entirely. So its like they took Falcon 4.0 and turned it into HAWX. And even though the graphics, gameplay and world size is better or the same, it feels smaller, and to me at least, therefore more pointless. It is also interesting to note that I find the communities similar as well. BF2, HAWX and the current mmorpgs are much more different than Armed Assault ,Falcon or the older mmorpgs, who are very tight knit and just great to game with.
And just so you know, yes its clear I take the virtual world stance, but as i said, I like the current games are well. I never understood why virtual world somehow means quest-less, free for all pvp, tedious grinds and corpse runs. I don't like any of those things. But the common thing for me is, the current mmos are games, just like BF2, and the old mmos are like ArmA, tedious, rather clunky, but it just sucks you in and you ignore the bugs, loving the total experience.
Gamer sites list Falcon and Arma as simulations, and HAWX an action game, with BF2 a FPS. There is a crossover of players from both camps, but they are not listed as the same, and clearly, the simulations are niche. Here, all these games are the same category, which as i said, I dont feel they are. I clearly accept my style preference as niche, but I guess thats easy to say since i can enjoy the other style as well. I think when games are less expensive to make, we will see more virtual world games again regularly. Flight sims nearly disappeared at one point as well, much to my annoyment, but they are back in fulll force.
Sorry for the long post, but just don't see how i could have said that in a paragraph.
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Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I think the problem with the genre is that it's primary focus is the business model, with lip service to the entertainment value. People are finally getting fed up with it. Companies are so hung up on retention that they end up making crap and only phsychological tricks can keep people playing. You know, mechanisms that appeal to the addiction in all of us, even it it's not all that fun.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Ye the genre right now is in a real shitty status in my opinion, players really get bored by the same old stuff and furthermore companys keep releasing MMOs which implement those basic ideas badly, so it really feels like instead of going forward we are going backwards, I guess it is the way it is because creating MMOs is just a difficult task which takes alot of funding and most companys are thinking about the money the game can make them instead of how the game can be fun to the players and I honestly believe this what sets the difference between World of Warcraft than most games in the market.
"The right thing" to do is probably not even try mmos any time soon, like some said, and wait for Blizzard to release their new MMO, because if they can't do it I dont know who can.
World of Warcraft is a proof that MMORPG quality should affect schedule/budget and not the other way around.
Speaking only for myself, I know whyI feel this way. [lots of darn good stuff] Ohatro
You speak for me as well, Ohatro.
The things you speak about are things I've been trying to say for awhile now. And I--like you and everyone here--believe the genre is not exciting anymore.
For years and years, developers have been cutting out all the "boring" things like travel, crafting, and housing to get people into the "exciting" things faster...and that means combat. But by doing so, they've basically painted themselves into a corner.
Because by offering nothing but fast action combat, they've made combat boring. And when combat is boring, there's no place where a developer can go to make the game more exciting. Sure, they can make harder MOBs, but that's basically the same MOB with different math underpinning it and a different model.
The only reason we are able to sit through a 90 minute film is because the fast-paced scenes are interspersed with slow scenes. But what happens when you take away all the slow scenes? You get a meaningless mess that makes people wonder after awhile, "what's the point of what I'm watching?"
I suspect this is why all of us here are burned out, and I expect it to get much worse in the next few years.
See, the best films--like the best games--aren't the ones who do the fast-paced and action-packed scenes well. I mean, there's only so many ways you can blow stuff up and kill people. After awhile, it gets old...and it gets older the more the film relies on it.
The best films--like the best games--are games that do the slow scenes well. That's what I think will get us back.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
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I started playing Mmo's with Eq in 2000, and moved to several others.I stopped playing MMO's when my wife got pregnant. I still like to pursue some forums, looking for a really good new mmo. I took a look at AoC and WAR, but was let down. Until a game that is well developed and not still in process goes live I think I'll be out of them for a while. I think it may be that we are all growing up.
My wife and I took a long break from MMOs not too long ago. We messed around with consoles, and some decent co op rpgs(wish there were more of them). After awhile we got the itch, but we were re subbing to everything, not trying to give one a decent shot. So we stepped back again. Now we ve decided were going to wait for the next crop of MMOs, since some sound decent to us and get 1 not 3 or 4 like we used to and just play it. We can dabble with trials etc on other ones but if you re the re sub to a different MMO every month type it s definately time to step back awhile and wait for that one. I m just doing alot of research and going on friends opinions. Hope we find that one soon.
I can't really explain it. I've been playing MMOs since UO, From sandbox to themepark. I've played near everything and enjoyed Most in some way or another. I used to look forward to having a bit of free time in the evening to jump on a good old MMO and Adventure and chat it up with my guild. I had all this motivation to level skills or farm Items or rep. I don't know where it all went wrong to be honest. I thought it was the attraction of single player games being so high tech now but thats not it. I log into a MMO now and it seems like i'm just wasting my time by playing a game that promises fun later on, wading through grind or repetitive actions only designed to keep me paying and playing but not delivering anything close to an enjoyable experience. 12 years of MMOs and now I can't even stand being logged into one of these games more than 10 minutes...... I don't get it.
Yep, I've been feeling much the same way. I've been playing for about 10 years is all (started with EQ, Kunark era), but lately I just can't bring myself to play any MMOs anymore.
It's not QUITE that I don't find MMOs enjoyable though... I still was being reasonably entertained when I discontinued my last couple subs a few weeks ago... it's just that, for me personally, the disappointments with any given MMO simply outweigh the fun that I do have with them.
I have a feeling I won't be back until a true next generation of MMOs is out (a TRUE next gen of games... not just a new "generation" of games that simply features flashier graphics, minimal improvements on decade-old features, and new names for all the same old people, places, and things)... if I come back at all.
With most of my newfound spare time, I've been thoroughly enjoying a gaming world that is as rich and deep and alive as I can possibly imagine (D&D)... and then some (contributions of several other people just as creative, if not more creative, than I am!).
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Im in the same boat. I jump back and forth between MMO's like im looking for something that isnt there. As someone put it the "magic" just isnt there anymore. Its single player console games for me for awhile, in fact just started playing Ratchet and Clank. Hopefully something will surface for us all down the road. Good luck to all.
I remember some of your early posts about WAR. You were one of the most excited people I've ever read about it. It sounded like you found your long lost soulmate, lol.
A few weeks later, your posts went down in enthusiasm until you finally posted you quit. I remember you saying you were disappointed at that because of its potential. I see plenty of people post that way. After Vanguard same thing happened. And AoC. And Tabula Rasa. And Shadowbane. Etc, etc, etc.
I think that may have had something to do with why you are sour on MMOs. It's like breaking up with a girl you were dating for a bit that broke your heart. You really don't want to date much after that and look at things critically.
Just give it a little time. AION will be better than WAR guaranteed and there are a few others coming out different enough that you would want to try them. Fallen Earth, Champions Online, maybe Mortal Online.
I just think WAR kicked you in the nuts and now you whince everytime you see a boot.
To this day I still recommend WAR to anyone I meet that is looking to break into the genre.
WAR was an amazing experience for me, It was one of the only games that actually gave me a choice in the way I wanted to level.
I could quest, instance pvp, Orvr or group up for PQs it gave me variety and I truely enjoyed that game.
My problem was with the lack of people to play with, WAR has all these really fun features but they require actual players to enjoy them.
After a week of solo questing and grinding stage 1 PQs with a healing spec Shaman I gave it up.
It's a shame really.
So no the game didn't kick me in the nuts it was the lack of players that drove me from the game.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
good post, I kinda agree.
Obviously my oldschool mmo self would be dissapointed with todays mmos but i've become bored with mmo basic mechanics along with whatever hook devs toss at me.
I no longer have my high expectations, I would settle for a fun game tbh.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I sometimes have trouble expressing myself through text, did my post come off as me being mad at MMO developers?
That wasn't my intention tbh.
Point taken ) More my assumption than your text.
What gets me is that you seem to imply that these games (such as Aion) don't deserve good reviews... that the market which buys these games is ruining the market for you... (which implies they are wrong about something). The simple fact could be there is a large segment of people who actually enjoy these games... and will think Aion is great (and deserves great reviews). So how are you (or I) to say they are wrong or that these games don't deserve *insert random thing* because "we" don't like them... *edited for some clarity*
I've dealt with this for a long time.. because EQ was crap (my opinon). Ultima Online had the better set of "core systems" and could have taken the "learn from mistakes made and improve" course...
But the masses didn't want that or never knew it... didn't agree with me whatever. When you look at the money (not claimed player base) that Blizzard is raking in... financials released every quarter to back it up... Its not hard to figure out why games are not really evolving.
70 to 100 million to create a game... investors don't want to take a risk on "different" because if it doesn't hit the mark.... they might as well have instested in a Ponzi scheme.
That's just market reality....
I miss my C64... back when multiple games I wanted to buy came out every month... every kind of game you could think of. Now I'm lucky if there is 1 or more games a year I want to buy.
I mean I guess I share your feelings to a great extent.. but there is a reality that they aren't going to make a game for me and 200,000 friends.... if they think they can get 500,000 or 1,000,000 building the clone.
Its really not about selling it to consumers... you'd have to convince the investors to build this game you think you want... you won't do that here... I'm not even sure how you'd get the attention of that crowd.
I am the same way. I am back to playing EQ1 again.
None of the new MMOs can keep me longer then a month. I get bored or realize it will not get better at higher levels. I was thinking that maybe it was me and maybe my MMO days are over but then I see post like this and realize its the genre not me. The Genre has gotten stale. Its the same game with different skins.
Like many others have said, some developer needs to step up and smell the roses and make something new.
I am watching Citadel of Sorcery very closely even though it is still early in development the Developer seems to be heading in the right direction. I hope they can accomplish their goals as I think that it will be game that many players have been waiting for.
Only a few games look good enough to check out.
Mortal Online
Citadel of Sorcery
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Maybe in the next couple of years we will get that "magic" back in MMOs. I have to keep hope alive. This is my favorite hobby besides hockey.
Sooner or Later
I think there's still a lot of potential room to get more subscribers by making a different MMO than WoW.. but nobody's trying.
In the best case WoW will have gazillion players and the MMO X too.
Thing is that since I started playing MMOs 10ish years ago, nothing really changed. The graphics got better, in most cases sound did not and that's about it. The underlying core mechanics are almost the same and it is only a matter of time before you realise that whenever you play a new game, you are doing the same things you've already done a million times before, and they are just not neither fun, nor convincing anymore.
Single player RPGs have one huge thing going for them and that is story and your involvement in it. You can create two games with same gfx engine, even same characters within the same world, but if you change the story it will be two entirely different games and both of them would be interesting to you, because in single player RPGs, the whish to uncover "what happens next" is what drives you forward. Sme goes with books or movies.
Imagine if the movie you are watching had the exactly same story, in a differently named world, with different actors, and from the very start you would know the ending because you saw the other movie 5 times. Once your curriosity wears down you would feel utterly bored, and you would have less and less tolerance for the same thing.
Sadly, story and the way MMOs present it have not progressed much. Yes there is this general background about the world for people that are interesting on reading things, but it doesn't mean squat, your actions mean squat and nothing really resolves or godforbid further complicates itself. You find yourself in a state of limbo where nothing really happens and nothing really matters. All that drives you forward is the whish to attain some artificial number that states how much hours you sat infront of the screen killing wolves, bears, rats, skeletons, followed by dangerous wolves, bears, rats and skelletons etc.
Once you do that for a couple of times in a few different games you realise that you are just moving stones from one pile to another, paying for doing it and try convincing yourself that it's fun.
I all but stopped playing MMOs, feeling that playing single player games at this point offer me way more fun and the expirience of playing either Fallout 3, Fable 2 or Mass effect, can not be compared to whatever any MMO has to offer at that time. I'm keeping my eye on games in development and thats about it.
Same thing is happening to me right now. I just no longer care nor are most mmorpgs fun. A few things here and there poke my interest but its no where near what it used to be.
This is a really interesting thread for me. I've been feeling the same way for a while, but just kinda assumed I was more-or-less alone in that. Obviously, it's more widespread than I realized.
I'm still in love with this genre. I've had some amazing times in EQ and EQ2, as well as some shorter stints in games such as Vanguard, WAR, and others, but the mere thought of re-subbing to any of these games makes me bored. There really aren't many games on the horizon that I have any interest in either, with the possible exception of Mortal Online, yet for some reason I can't stop reading these forums and researching every new game to be announced.
I'm sure it has a lot to do with the nostalgia of the old games I used to play. I remember the good times and forget the bad, and have perhaps an unfairly high standard set for any new game I play. Newer games never seem to have the "magic" I remember from the past.
Ahh well, I'm sure something will eventually come along that captures my attention. In the meantime, single-player games will do just fine.
In a genre populated by largely incompetent developers, it's no surprise that this feeling is very common.
The last big leap was WoW. Nobody seems to have to gall to make the next leap as of yet.
Took you long enough.
When I get burned out on MMORPGs, I usually find a good single player game like Mass Effect to get the story and immersion. For PvP, I will fire up TF2 for a few hours, and for community, I can just come here and chat about what was, what is, and what may become of one of my favorite genres. But yeah, I can sympathize with players like the OP here. I think it'd be cool to have an Age of Wonders or Civilizations MMO, but with roleplaying elements and twitch combat incorporated somehow.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
We need more games that take an approach to grinding similar to Guild Wars; there is none.
mmo's try to cover too many audience's, casual, hardcore, pvp, and should focus more on quality game play. You dont need to come up with the next big thing. There's nothing wrong with copying something that works as long as what your copying is fun. Thats what mmo's lack today, fun.
I feel the same exact way. I just go with the thought that I want to be back playing UO and having those times relived again. It is just nostalgia. Younger and less opinionated back then has be replaced by age and more jadedness.
Speaking only for myself, I know why I feel this way.
I don't believe the genre is the same. I don't want to be the one categorizing anything, but in my opinion, most people over-simplify things on this website. Virtual-world, themeparks and terms like casuals, hardcore etc are thrown around with different meaning all the time. Even complexity or dumbed-down are not represented well, or are explained poorly
The way i see mmorpgs is similar to games like Falcon 4.0AF compared to Tom Clancy's HAWX, or Armed Assault to Battlefield 2. Falcon and HAWX are flying games. When you pull on the stick of your controller, your nose goes, up, you radar lock targets, select missiles, get into range and fire. In Armed Assualt adn BF2, they are FPS in modern war, all twitch, with one shot head shot capabilites with the objective of killing opposing players. But in in HAWX, there is no long flight to the objective, the radar is automated and easy to use, the speed is exaggerated and so are basically all other capabilities. Basically the same as Armed Assualt and BF2. In other words, one is more arcadish than the other, and the action is much more accessable faster.
Here's the thing though, I like both styles a lot. I have many hours on all those games, and enjoy and recommend them to everyone. I don't view BF2 as dumbed down to Armed Assault, its just different. Sometimes I dont feel like flying 1 hour through heavy defenses just to drop my bomb in Falcon. The general gameplay and graphics are BF2 and HAWX compared to Armed Assault and Falcon are also way better and smoother. I would never dispute this. But for myself, I personally prefer Armed Assault and Falcon over the other two. Also, I can't take BF2 and HAWX for very long. They are great fun, but in small doses. I have been playing Falcon for years, and Armed Assault for a year as well. HAWX was fun a couple times, and I have about 100 hours in BF2. I think since everything is immediate, and fast, without much purpose, I tire of them quickly.
And this is true with mmorpgs for me as well. I really enjoyed LOTRO, Warhammer and WoW. I don't understand all the bashing frankly, but it doesnt bother me. But the common thing is that these games all died out on me quite fast, just like BF2 or HAWX. The gameplay is way better than the old mmos too, in my opinion, but i found this boredom common to all new titles that have come out. So to use my Falcon 4.0 analogy again, I think in the interests of attracting more gamers ( not mmorpg players exclusively ) they got rid of the tedious things like the difference between it and HAWX. No mid-air refueling, no long flights, no navigation, no landing. Those things are tedious. But they make the game for me.
I found all the thing that current gamers complain about the old games, tedious as well. But I think that removing them has made these games feel less complex, even though there was nothing complex about the systems in place before. What they did though, was provide structure for the social elements. I love combat, and play these games for combat. But since this is the sole focus now, i burn out on them fast. Warhammer felt like BF2 to me, as i was just loggin in for pvp. So that lasted about 6 weeks.
In my opinion, the innovation should have been in making those tedious systems more interesting, but instead, they just got rid of them entirely. So its like they took Falcon 4.0 and turned it into HAWX. And even though the graphics, gameplay and world size is better or the same, it feels smaller, and to me at least, therefore more pointless. It is also interesting to note that I find the communities similar as well. BF2, HAWX and the current mmorpgs are much more different than Armed Assault ,Falcon or the older mmorpgs, who are very tight knit and just great to game with.
And just so you know, yes its clear I take the virtual world stance, but as i said, I like the current games are well. I never understood why virtual world somehow means quest-less, free for all pvp, tedious grinds and corpse runs. I don't like any of those things. But the common thing for me is, the current mmos are games, just like BF2, and the old mmos are like ArmA, tedious, rather clunky, but it just sucks you in and you ignore the bugs, loving the total experience.
Gamer sites list Falcon and Arma as simulations, and HAWX an action game, with BF2 a FPS. There is a crossover of players from both camps, but they are not listed as the same, and clearly, the simulations are niche. Here, all these games are the same category, which as i said, I dont feel they are. I clearly accept my style preference as niche, but I guess thats easy to say since i can enjoy the other style as well. I think when games are less expensive to make, we will see more virtual world games again regularly. Flight sims nearly disappeared at one point as well, much to my annoyment, but they are back in fulll force.
Sorry for the long post, but just don't see how i could have said that in a paragraph.
Ohatro
“I don’t know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody.”
Bill Cosby
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I think the problem with the genre is that it's primary focus is the business model, with lip service to the entertainment value. People are finally getting fed up with it. Companies are so hung up on retention that they end up making crap and only phsychological tricks can keep people playing. You know, mechanisms that appeal to the addiction in all of us, even it it's not all that fun.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Ye the genre right now is in a real shitty status in my opinion, players really get bored by the same old stuff and furthermore companys keep releasing MMOs which implement those basic ideas badly, so it really feels like instead of going forward we are going backwards, I guess it is the way it is because creating MMOs is just a difficult task which takes alot of funding and most companys are thinking about the money the game can make them instead of how the game can be fun to the players and I honestly believe this what sets the difference between World of Warcraft than most games in the market.
"The right thing" to do is probably not even try mmos any time soon, like some said, and wait for Blizzard to release their new MMO, because if they can't do it I dont know who can.
World of Warcraft is a proof that MMORPG quality should affect schedule/budget and not the other way around.
You speak for me as well, Ohatro.
The things you speak about are things I've been trying to say for awhile now. And I--like you and everyone here--believe the genre is not exciting anymore.
For years and years, developers have been cutting out all the "boring" things like travel, crafting, and housing to get people into the "exciting" things faster...and that means combat. But by doing so, they've basically painted themselves into a corner.
Because by offering nothing but fast action combat, they've made combat boring. And when combat is boring, there's no place where a developer can go to make the game more exciting. Sure, they can make harder MOBs, but that's basically the same MOB with different math underpinning it and a different model.
The only reason we are able to sit through a 90 minute film is because the fast-paced scenes are interspersed with slow scenes. But what happens when you take away all the slow scenes? You get a meaningless mess that makes people wonder after awhile, "what's the point of what I'm watching?"
I suspect this is why all of us here are burned out, and I expect it to get much worse in the next few years.
See, the best films--like the best games--aren't the ones who do the fast-paced and action-packed scenes well. I mean, there's only so many ways you can blow stuff up and kill people. After awhile, it gets old...and it gets older the more the film relies on it.
The best films--like the best games--are games that do the slow scenes well. That's what I think will get us back.
__________________________
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"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
I started playing Mmo's with Eq in 2000, and moved to several others.I stopped playing MMO's when my wife got pregnant. I still like to pursue some forums, looking for a really good new mmo. I took a look at AoC and WAR, but was let down. Until a game that is well developed and not still in process goes live I think I'll be out of them for a while. I think it may be that we are all growing up.
...unless you're Blizzard=) That's a good motto though. Gotta love Bill.
My wife and I took a long break from MMOs not too long ago. We messed around with consoles, and some decent co op rpgs(wish there were more of them). After awhile we got the itch, but we were re subbing to everything, not trying to give one a decent shot. So we stepped back again. Now we ve decided were going to wait for the next crop of MMOs, since some sound decent to us and get 1 not 3 or 4 like we used to and just play it. We can dabble with trials etc on other ones but if you re the re sub to a different MMO every month type it s definately time to step back awhile and wait for that one. I m just doing alot of research and going on friends opinions. Hope we find that one soon.
Yep, I've been feeling much the same way. I've been playing for about 10 years is all (started with EQ, Kunark era), but lately I just can't bring myself to play any MMOs anymore.
It's not QUITE that I don't find MMOs enjoyable though... I still was being reasonably entertained when I discontinued my last couple subs a few weeks ago... it's just that, for me personally, the disappointments with any given MMO simply outweigh the fun that I do have with them.
I have a feeling I won't be back until a true next generation of MMOs is out (a TRUE next gen of games... not just a new "generation" of games that simply features flashier graphics, minimal improvements on decade-old features, and new names for all the same old people, places, and things)... if I come back at all.
With most of my newfound spare time, I've been thoroughly enjoying a gaming world that is as rich and deep and alive as I can possibly imagine (D&D)... and then some (contributions of several other people just as creative, if not more creative, than I am!).