Well they could still give classes more flexibility and it wont be like WoW. Giving a lot more classes a chance to heal or do something else. Or they could take out healing all together and design an MMO with that in mind would work just fine.
If you want to lessen the time standaing around LFG , I think the best way would be give more options on how to make a pt. FFXI downfall in that terms was WHM. WHM had a lock on the healing. Sure you could have SMN heal or 2 RDM's but it wasnt near as effective. RDM and BRD was really good at doing it but getting those 2 together was next to impossible. There was viable options to every other role in the game, but how would you make 2 main healing classes?
imo, FFXIV has deserved a purchase from me with the absolutely fantasic experience i've had with FFXI. I honestly dont care if its easier, it will be at the very least a new and interesting addition. Though i do agree the grouping aspect of the game is what made FFXI what it is even if its frustrating at times (not saying that its being omitted, just that they have stated making it more solo friendly).
If by friendlier do you mean less standing around wasting time LFG? Sure. I hope they keep the leveling pace slower. I also hope they rework the crafting system too, FFXI crafting system wasn't that great.
Well the issue that you have (which is a valid issue) is that you want the toughness of the grind and all that work...but you don't wanna wait "LFG" trust me I did that for a year and a half, I know what you mean. But what you don't realise is that the "Toughness of the grind" kept away players and so there was a smaller comunity and so more time LFG......it had nothing to do with Square...The majority of "mmo players" are damn lazy..just the way it is.
(And honestly as much as I didn't like LFG, now that I look back on it...I did enjoy it. alot of the time you would spend a hour chatting with a couple people waiting for 1 more healer to get online...or some one to travel from bastok to the dunes...or whatever......it really was an experience on its own)
One of the most interesting lessons we can all learn from FFXI is the fact that all the "down time" either waiting for a group or traveling around the world by chocobo meant that you actually had time to look around, talk to other players and really "get into" the world and connect with others in game. No doubt it was also frustrating but overall I look at it as a positive. I'm just hoping that the new game softens the edge a little, but not too much.
Well I will be trying it for sure. Playing it long-term? I dunno, no game has been released since FFXI that was as challenging/satisfying to play. I can understand them releasing a game for the masses, but I am not the masses. Whats the point in doing something that anyone can do? I know piss-poor attitude huh?
All the "big" games that have come out recently are falling short, Warhammer for example. They are trying to cater to the WoW niche but people that like super easy gameplay dont want to be bothered with installing a new game, or coming up with a new character name. WoW has its niche locked in and knows how to keep them. It's a huge niche.
So it really boils down to how "friendly" your talking here. If I see people tearing through content and maxing out their characters in a month... well then I'll just keep playing EVE.
Well the issue that you have (which is a valid issue) is that you want the toughness of the grind and all that work...but you don't wanna wait "LFG" trust me I did that for a year and a half, I know what you mean. But what you don't realise is that the "Toughness of the grind" kept away players and so there was a smaller comunity and so more time LFG......it had nothing to do with Square...The majority of "mmo players" are damn lazy..just the way it is.
(And honestly as much as I didn't like LFG, now that I look back on it...I did enjoy it. alot of the time you would spend a hour chatting with a couple people waiting for 1 more healer to get online...or some one to travel from bastok to the dunes...or whatever......it really was an experience on its own)
"Just damn lazy" and "I have a life" are not the same thing. It makes me sick when I hear guildmates over vent telling their kids they can't pick up their kid from soccer because they are in the middle of a raid. Or when the wife asks them to get off to help with dinner and they instead say do it yourself, I cannot stop playing.
It is well beyond me how some of you spin that gamers today are "lazy" and want "instant gratification" ... instead of the truth, most of us grew up and have lives and responsibilities now. We still enjoy gaming but sitting around for 2 hours a night saying "LFG" isn't gaming. Also someone else said some people gave up FFXI because they lacked "interpersonal skills"? Haha, are you serious? You bent mindlessing waiting for a party and people giving up that nonsense into they quit because of poor social skills? Sure it's not the people that play a MMO 4+ hours a day that are lacking those skills?...
Listen, I am all for MMOs needing a party to play. But my favorite MMO, UO... I could get 5 random people together and go kill almost whatever we wanted. It was easier if you had certain skills brought along, but almost any group of people could get together and have some fun. In FFXI you had to have WHM... tank with certain armor, certain DPS classes, etc etc. That doesn't make the game "hardcore", it means it has a poor game design. You shouldn't need a square, triangle, circle, and hexagon to all be together to play... you should be able to play the game with any combination OR allow players to more easily change roles to fit (WoW has been realizing this problem and fixing it - Paladin can be a healer, tank, or ... dps, etc). I look forward to FFXIV game design, but I'm not holding my breathe.
And BTW, if you like FFXI but hated the grind, FFXII seems quite similar for PS2... I'm currently playing it on PS3 and it seems like single player FFXI to me. It's not an MMO, but it still seems like a fun ride so far.
I stayed away from FFXI because of its reputation for long grouping sessions as the principal (and perhaps only?) form of advancement, I just don't have the time.
Another turn off, groups apparently would judge people's 'fitness' to join them based on the gear they had at the time. (not just at endgame, but while leveling up as well). That was an even bigger negative in my mind (never ran into that issue in DAOC) and I hope FFXIV won't go down that road.
That said, if the game has both features, not a big deal, nothing says every game out there has to cater to my playstyle, and I know many folks would be thrilled if the game retained the hardcore edge of its predecessor.
But if they do make it a bit more casual friendly, there's a better chance they'll get some of my money.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Just damn lazy" and "I have a life" are not the same thing. It makes me sick when I hear guildmates over vent telling their kids they can't pick up their kid from soccer because they are in the middle of a raid. Or when the wife asks them to get off to help with dinner and they instead say do it yourself, I cannot stop playing.
The problem isn't the game in those examples. Its the people being stupid and playing when knew their kids had soccer or when dinner was being prepared. Bad people dont justify bad games.
I believe the increased difficulty of the game in addition to the requirement of needing groups to progress is what made FFXI one of the more enjoyable MMO's to play.
This meant you had to invest a lot of time to accomplish things, be it actually grinding or seeking a group. As mentioned before you also spent time socializing with the other players of the game during the time. Also, it meant you couldn't just be some jerk off or greedy unsociable prick because you would become known as such in the community and it would spell you doom for any long term or high level goals.
Compared to what I experience now, where people don't really give a crap most times and the system makes everything easy where you can always just start over/make an alt to near the same status in a short period of time, it caters to much to instant gratification. Those who are given what they want, with little to no effort, don't enjoy it and quickly loose interest and move on.
So, if I am forced to take the time to enjoy the people, story and setting (as long as they are quality), then all the better.
I want them to make the game they want to make, then i'll decide if I like it. If it is too hard and I just can't handle the way it works... boo hoo to me, go try something else.
Trying to please me would be nice.
Trying to please everyone on the planet would be the worst decision in the world.
"Just damn lazy" and "I have a life" are not the same thing. It makes me sick when I hear guildmates over vent telling their kids they can't pick up their kid from soccer because they are in the middle of a raid. Or when the wife asks them to get off to help with dinner and they instead say do it yourself, I cannot stop playing.
The problem isn't the game in those examples. Its the people being stupid and playing when knew their kids had soccer or when dinner was being prepared. Bad people dont justify bad games.
This example has nothing to do with the game, laziness, having a life or instant gratification. Those people are irresponsible idiots who would most likely do anything they enjoyed to excess. Asking a game to be designed around or have content for people like those in your example is pointless and unfair to those that can play responsibly. You can't police stupid!
The plain truth is that not all games are made for all people. I don't like to PVP but I certainly don't play a PVP oriented game and lobby for there to be less PVP and more PVE content. You can't have your cake and eat it too. We don't have inalienable rights to be able to do everything others can do all the time.
Part of being responsible is knowing what you can and can't do. A lot of us have much less time than we did 5, 6 or 7 years ago and because of that we may not be able to play a game the way we used to. That doesn't mean that the game must be designed for us or around us, it means that if we want to play it badly enough we must make concessions and have better time management than those with more time to devote to gaming. It means we must make better use of our gaming time, accept the fact that we probably won't progress as fast as others and make the most out of the time we have to play.
In my opinion these are a few of the reasons a game like FFXI (and hopefully FFXIV) is a better choice for gamers who have less time. There is no rush to end game like in WOW, its about the journey and the community. You are much more like to find people that understand real life commitments in a more sophisticated game like FFXI. You are much less likely to find the people in your example in games like FFXI because it doesn't cater to idiots.
I honestly had no problem with Final Fantasy XI's playstyle. It was hard. It meant something when you leveled, particularly in the realm of crafting. That said, it was a grind in the worst possible way. It could be very hard to get a group, which was the only real way to level past about level 15, depending on your class. I would like for the new FF MMO to retain that difficulty without the insane grind. I think this effectively kept out the wankers and made for a great community while making the gameplay meaningful. That's what's missing in so many MMOs. That feeling of accomplishment and personal victory. You knew that not everyone could achieve what you achieved, either because they lacked the time or they lacked interpersonal skills. In short, I would happily play a "friendlier" FF MMO, provided they could retain the difficulty and sense of achievement from the first game.
I see alot of posts like this. I wish more people knew what they wanted, and would stop living in dream land.
The insane grind you refer to is what made the difficulty. (btw it wasnt a grind to me, I loved every minute of ffxi). If you lessen the grind that you speak of, you lower the difficulty, Things become more accesabile to anyone, and it keep more "wankers." So how much do you want to lessen it?
I just cant understand why more people cant see this. In a perfect world you could lower the grind and keep the same difficulty level. However the real world is not close to perfect. Its a video game people, theres only a few limited ways devs can make things challenging to someone who sits on their rear pushing buttons on a keyboard. I always see people saying it can be done, but I have yet to see them provide a viable example of how to do it.
Honestly do you have any idea what your talking about? FFXI is the only game that can make every single mob Fight feel like a Low lvl Boss Fight. Even if you took out 90% of the lvls it would still be a Hard fight all the way. Perfectly Built partys Pissing their pants because someone Used a AOE, Or a mob wanderd two close to the action. Honestly I cant think of another MMO that makes me feel this way.
Now that said I agree with you that I like the Hard Grind all the way. And if there had been a system to let you Mentor / Sidekick then Id still be playing today. But watching all my Friends Run off W/O me is total BS. thankfully there was reportedly a system like this in place now. Hopefully it will still be in FFXIV... Or however it is they plan to do this Leveling thing anyways.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. Samuel Adams
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Well they could still give classes more flexibility and it wont be like WoW. Giving a lot more classes a chance to heal or do something else. Or they could take out healing all together and design an MMO with that in mind would work just fine.
I'll be giving this a try, I did play the previous one briefley.
Very good point.
imo, FFXIV has deserved a purchase from me with the absolutely fantasic experience i've had with FFXI. I honestly dont care if its easier, it will be at the very least a new and interesting addition. Though i do agree the grouping aspect of the game is what made FFXI what it is even if its frustrating at times (not saying that its being omitted, just that they have stated making it more solo friendly).
No. Enough with the anime already...
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
Well the issue that you have (which is a valid issue) is that you want the toughness of the grind and all that work...but you don't wanna wait "LFG" trust me I did that for a year and a half, I know what you mean. But what you don't realise is that the "Toughness of the grind" kept away players and so there was a smaller comunity and so more time LFG......it had nothing to do with Square...The majority of "mmo players" are damn lazy..just the way it is.
(And honestly as much as I didn't like LFG, now that I look back on it...I did enjoy it. alot of the time you would spend a hour chatting with a couple people waiting for 1 more healer to get online...or some one to travel from bastok to the dunes...or whatever......it really was an experience on its own)
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To the original question, yes, no doubt.
One of the most interesting lessons we can all learn from FFXI is the fact that all the "down time" either waiting for a group or traveling around the world by chocobo meant that you actually had time to look around, talk to other players and really "get into" the world and connect with others in game. No doubt it was also frustrating but overall I look at it as a positive. I'm just hoping that the new game softens the edge a little, but not too much.
Well I will be trying it for sure. Playing it long-term? I dunno, no game has been released since FFXI that was as challenging/satisfying to play. I can understand them releasing a game for the masses, but I am not the masses. Whats the point in doing something that anyone can do? I know piss-poor attitude huh?
All the "big" games that have come out recently are falling short, Warhammer for example. They are trying to cater to the WoW niche but people that like super easy gameplay dont want to be bothered with installing a new game, or coming up with a new character name. WoW has its niche locked in and knows how to keep them. It's a huge niche.
So it really boils down to how "friendly" your talking here. If I see people tearing through content and maxing out their characters in a month... well then I'll just keep playing EVE.
"Just damn lazy" and "I have a life" are not the same thing. It makes me sick when I hear guildmates over vent telling their kids they can't pick up their kid from soccer because they are in the middle of a raid. Or when the wife asks them to get off to help with dinner and they instead say do it yourself, I cannot stop playing.
It is well beyond me how some of you spin that gamers today are "lazy" and want "instant gratification" ... instead of the truth, most of us grew up and have lives and responsibilities now. We still enjoy gaming but sitting around for 2 hours a night saying "LFG" isn't gaming. Also someone else said some people gave up FFXI because they lacked "interpersonal skills"? Haha, are you serious? You bent mindlessing waiting for a party and people giving up that nonsense into they quit because of poor social skills? Sure it's not the people that play a MMO 4+ hours a day that are lacking those skills?...
Listen, I am all for MMOs needing a party to play. But my favorite MMO, UO... I could get 5 random people together and go kill almost whatever we wanted. It was easier if you had certain skills brought along, but almost any group of people could get together and have some fun. In FFXI you had to have WHM... tank with certain armor, certain DPS classes, etc etc. That doesn't make the game "hardcore", it means it has a poor game design. You shouldn't need a square, triangle, circle, and hexagon to all be together to play... you should be able to play the game with any combination OR allow players to more easily change roles to fit (WoW has been realizing this problem and fixing it - Paladin can be a healer, tank, or ... dps, etc). I look forward to FFXIV game design, but I'm not holding my breathe.
And BTW, if you like FFXI but hated the grind, FFXII seems quite similar for PS2... I'm currently playing it on PS3 and it seems like single player FFXI to me. It's not an MMO, but it still seems like a fun ride so far.
I stayed away from FFXI because of its reputation for long grouping sessions as the principal (and perhaps only?) form of advancement, I just don't have the time.
Another turn off, groups apparently would judge people's 'fitness' to join them based on the gear they had at the time. (not just at endgame, but while leveling up as well). That was an even bigger negative in my mind (never ran into that issue in DAOC) and I hope FFXIV won't go down that road.
That said, if the game has both features, not a big deal, nothing says every game out there has to cater to my playstyle, and I know many folks would be thrilled if the game retained the hardcore edge of its predecessor.
But if they do make it a bit more casual friendly, there's a better chance they'll get some of my money.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The problem isn't the game in those examples. Its the people being stupid and playing when knew their kids had soccer or when dinner was being prepared. Bad people dont justify bad games.
I believe the increased difficulty of the game in addition to the requirement of needing groups to progress is what made FFXI one of the more enjoyable MMO's to play.
This meant you had to invest a lot of time to accomplish things, be it actually grinding or seeking a group. As mentioned before you also spent time socializing with the other players of the game during the time. Also, it meant you couldn't just be some jerk off or greedy unsociable prick because you would become known as such in the community and it would spell you doom for any long term or high level goals.
Compared to what I experience now, where people don't really give a crap most times and the system makes everything easy where you can always just start over/make an alt to near the same status in a short period of time, it caters to much to instant gratification. Those who are given what they want, with little to no effort, don't enjoy it and quickly loose interest and move on.
So, if I am forced to take the time to enjoy the people, story and setting (as long as they are quality), then all the better.
No.
I want them to make the game they want to make, then i'll decide if I like it. If it is too hard and I just can't handle the way it works... boo hoo to me, go try something else.
Trying to please me would be nice.
Trying to please everyone on the planet would be the worst decision in the world.
The problem isn't the game in those examples. Its the people being stupid and playing when knew their kids had soccer or when dinner was being prepared. Bad people dont justify bad games.
This example has nothing to do with the game, laziness, having a life or instant gratification. Those people are irresponsible idiots who would most likely do anything they enjoyed to excess. Asking a game to be designed around or have content for people like those in your example is pointless and unfair to those that can play responsibly. You can't police stupid!
The plain truth is that not all games are made for all people. I don't like to PVP but I certainly don't play a PVP oriented game and lobby for there to be less PVP and more PVE content. You can't have your cake and eat it too. We don't have inalienable rights to be able to do everything others can do all the time.
Part of being responsible is knowing what you can and can't do. A lot of us have much less time than we did 5, 6 or 7 years ago and because of that we may not be able to play a game the way we used to. That doesn't mean that the game must be designed for us or around us, it means that if we want to play it badly enough we must make concessions and have better time management than those with more time to devote to gaming. It means we must make better use of our gaming time, accept the fact that we probably won't progress as fast as others and make the most out of the time we have to play.
In my opinion these are a few of the reasons a game like FFXI (and hopefully FFXIV) is a better choice for gamers who have less time. There is no rush to end game like in WOW, its about the journey and the community. You are much more like to find people that understand real life commitments in a more sophisticated game like FFXI. You are much less likely to find the people in your example in games like FFXI because it doesn't cater to idiots.
Just my opinion. . .
I see alot of posts like this. I wish more people knew what they wanted, and would stop living in dream land.
The insane grind you refer to is what made the difficulty. (btw it wasnt a grind to me, I loved every minute of ffxi). If you lessen the grind that you speak of, you lower the difficulty, Things become more accesabile to anyone, and it keep more "wankers." So how much do you want to lessen it?
I just cant understand why more people cant see this. In a perfect world you could lower the grind and keep the same difficulty level. However the real world is not close to perfect. Its a video game people, theres only a few limited ways devs can make things challenging to someone who sits on their rear pushing buttons on a keyboard. I always see people saying it can be done, but I have yet to see them provide a viable example of how to do it.
Honestly do you have any idea what your talking about? FFXI is the only game that can make every single mob Fight feel like a Low lvl Boss Fight. Even if you took out 90% of the lvls it would still be a Hard fight all the way. Perfectly Built partys Pissing their pants because someone Used a AOE, Or a mob wanderd two close to the action. Honestly I cant think of another MMO that makes me feel this way.
Now that said I agree with you that I like the Hard Grind all the way. And if there had been a system to let you Mentor / Sidekick then Id still be playing today. But watching all my Friends Run off W/O me is total BS. thankfully there was reportedly a system like this in place now. Hopefully it will still be in FFXIV... Or however it is they plan to do this Leveling thing anyways.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams