Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Stargate Worlds is DEAD!!!!!
SemperFiVet
Member Posts: 83
Stargate Worlds, so close to being a reality and much more than just a dream and vision of some of the most talented people in the MMORPG world, is now dead. And I mean dead, dead...
Every investor, shareholder, stockholder, employee, family member, friend, neighbor of friends, vendor, virtually ANYONE that put a DIME into the hands of co founders Gary Whiting and Fred Gagon , Garvick Properties, Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment , MOGULS, ITZYOURMALL or any of the other 20 or so shell companies HAVE LOST THEIR MONEY..
Whiting and Gagon are nothing more than a couple of small time "pink sheet" scamming promoters, running a giant PONZI.
Whiting used his purported Mormon religion to take in some $40Million+ from roughly 500 good, hard working Mormon business owners and investors and/or their friends and families . He also raked in another $10Million+ from the very employees who were developing the game., With all of that initial money gone developing the game and fading the giant overhead (which included paying Whiting, Gagon, and their family members) and after overcoming Whiting embezzling over $10Million, the duo moved on to the open market of $250K or under investors. Who knows how many, but somewhere around 2000 people, dumped another $20Million or so into Garvick Properties, supposedly converting to CME or CMG stock..
Well there are hundreds of people who are still looking for their stock certificates.. And they wont find them, because Whiting controls Garvick and he uses the money to pay the most critical needs at the time.. Some money makes it to CME, but most does not..
The economy hits the skids last October/November and the small investor stops coming in, but the overhead and payroll continue and Whiting"s polygamist ways are expensive to maintain as well.. SO he comes up with an other SCAM, called MMOGULS.. He is selling a MLM opportunity, using the very game he cant finish as the hook. Stargate Worlds..
This is a bigger scam than CME. With absolutely no product, Whiting goes through 3 CEOs, 3 credit card processors and over 50 employees, along with about 5000 members, pulling in over $2Million.
Latest on MMOGULS...... They were locked out of their offices last Tuesday for NON PAYMENT of their rent. They are running the entire operation out of one of the "Leaders" home..
THE END IS NEAR FOR THIS PIECE OF WORK, GARY WHITING!!!!!!
The financial end and the freedom he is now enjoying. When I, and about 100 others who have joined me, finish with this clown, he will be in jail, right where he belongs..
STAY CLEAR OF CME and MMOGULS, but most of all, steer clear of Gary Whiting and Fred Gagon...
If you have any complaints against these crooks, if they owe you money, a stock certificate, ANYTHING., just email me or call me. I will be happy to assist you..
Bob Guenther bob@jaffapartners.com 480.545.2235
Stargate Worlds, so close to being a reality and much more than just a dream and vision of some of the most talented people in the MMORPG world, is now dead. And I mean dead, dead...
Every investor, shareholder, stockholder, employee, family member, friend, neighbor of friends, vendor, virtually ANYONE that put a DIME into the hands of co founders Gary Whiting and Fred Gagon , Garvick Properties, Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment , MOGULS, ITZYOURMALL or any of the other 20 or so shell companies HAVE LOST THEIR MONEY..
Whiting and Gagon are nothing more than a couple of small time "pink sheet" scamming promoters, running a giant PONZI.
Whiting used his purported Mormon religion to take in some $40Million+ from roughly 500 good, hard working Mormon business owners and investors and/or their friends and families . He also raked in another $10Million+ from the very employees who were developing the game., With all of that initial money gone developing the game and fading the giant overhead (which included paying Whiting, Gagon, and their family members) and after overcoming Whiting embezzling over $10Million, the duo moved on to the open market of $250K or under investors. Who knows how many, but somewhere around 2000 people, dumped another $20Million or so into Garvick Properties, supposedly converting to CME or CMG stock..
Well there are hundreds of people who are still looking for their stock certificates.. And they wont find them, because Whiting controls Garvick and he uses the money to pay the most critical needs at the time.. Some money makes it to CME, but most does not..
The economy hits the skids last October/November and the small investor stops coming in, but the overhead and payroll continue and Whiting"s polygamist ways are expensive to maintain as well.. SO he comes up with an other SCAM, called MMOGULS.. He is selling a MLM opportunity, using the very game he cant finish as the hook. Stargate Worlds..
This is a bigger scam than CME. With absolutely no product, Whiting goes through 3 CEOs, 3 credit card processors and over 50 employees, along with about 5000 members, pulling in over $2Million.
Latest on MMOGULS...... They were locked out of their offices last Tuesday for NON PAYMENT of their rent. They are running the entire operation out of one of the "Leaders" home..
THE END IS NEAR FOR THIS PIECE OF WORK, GARY WHITING!!!!!!
The financial end and the freedom he is now enjoying. When I, and about 100 others who have joined me, finish with this clown, he will be in jail, right where he belongs..
STAY CLEAR OF CME and MMOGULS, but most of all, steer clear of Gary Whiting and Fred Gagon...
If you have any complaints against these crooks, if they owe you money, a stock certificate, ANYTHING., just email me or call me. I will be happy to assist you..
Bob Guenther bob@jaffapartners.com 480.545.2235
Comments
Was this reprinted from somewhere?
You are making a big assumption that anyone on these boards have money for investment
Most of us barely afford the dollar menu
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Someone doesnt know how what a ponzi scheme is....
Regardless of what happens to Starget Worlds, it most definitely wasn't a ponzi scheme.
No, this is my print, from dealing with this scum for the last 8 months..
That is exactly what it was, the game was being developed on investors money. Management, employees, vendors, investors, and disgruntled investors were paid with new investors money,, Just like any other Ponzi, without new money the older investors could not recieve any return, classic Ponzi..
And please, dont comment on something you dont have first hand knowledge of. I was and am an investor. I officed right next to MMOGULS , in an office downstairs from CME headquarters, until Whiting filed a bogus Workplace Harrassment Injuction against me.. When that was thrown out of court he filed 3 other bogus Workplace Harrassment charges against me. One was just dismissed last week, two are still pending a PreTrial Hearing July 23rd.. A;; of this is amatter of public record in Maricopa County Arizona...All of this to keep me away from employees and more importantly, potential investors...
No offense, but you're accusing a company of false business practices and scamming, without any corroboration at all other than your own statements. There's been no hint in any press releases of SGW ending, or that anyone invlolved was doing anything illegal. The closts I could find was this:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/61377
Which, while a horrible business model and very-scammy-sounding, has little to do with what you're accusing them of.
Then tehre's the matter than you're coming on here disgruntled because you got an injunction against you. I'm not saying you're wrong, but with no word other than your own to prove anything AND a reason to have a grudge...well it's hard to believe you.
Technically this post would be considered slander if you can't substantiate your claims with some real evidence, and assuming you have any legal knowledge(more so than your English knowledge) you'd know the implications of such, especially relaying this information in such publication that has some odd 1,000,000 members, with as many as a few thousand reading it EVERY SECOND.
I hope you realize most MMO's that are created from an independent company are working off investor cash. Anyway's, if SGW is dead, why are the servers still up and running? I take it your someone who's local and harrased them because they removed you from beta and claim to be an investor because you gave them free lunch? Regardless, the game is still being run and developed, and in fact is not dead. SUre they are having money issues, but they are still in development. It's clearly evident if you were in beta you would know this. Thanks for posting your info though, look forward to some spam. And next time your bitter, would be best to look professional and take it up with them instead of posting it in some forum board where people careless and will only flame you. Seriously, if you invested with them and are legitiment, why would you even attempt to post this here. Does it even sound like the right thing to do?
I didnt get fired, I never worked for CME.. I committed to invest, through a Texas partnership, $100,000 in CME.. After putting iin $60,000 in Garvick Properties, a Whiting owned corporation and a pass through to CME, the warning signs started popping up.
Then Whiting, the management and most of the CME employees took off two weeks for the Christmas holidays. While he was gone I learned the truth from past employees, disgruntled current employees, and most of all, from scared investors who had already put in over $20Million. I also was approached by current OFFICERS of CME concerning Whiting's embezzling $6Million dollars..
Short story, when Whiting returned on January 5, 2009, I, along with 4 other shareholders and one board member. which collectively represented over 200 Investors, approached Whiting with the facts. The battle started, it continues today, and Whiting is losing BIG TIME.. Unfortunately over 2500 investors, employees, creditors and potential players are losing everything..
As was said, you do realize that you won't see a dime from your investment until the game actually launches, sells boxes (if there are any retail boxes), and starts brining in subscribers... right? If you didn't understand what you were investing in, then that's your own fault. If anything sounds fishy around here, it's the baseless claims that you are making. I hope that you weren't counting on any sympathy or compatriots here because you aren't likely to get any...
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
As I clearly re-edited because I mis-typed, I said invested. Either or, you going to answer my question? If you are an investor, your going about this the wrong way. This type of drama is not for a forums board. If you feel you got scammed and are dealing with it, whats the point of this? The game is clearly still in development. I would show you, but I can't. Get over whatever it is your trying to prove to these forums, and go deal with your problems. It has already been stated, but you should of did a background check before getting in over your head. What else you want us to say, your a sucker? Take care and act a little more professional if you really are telling the truth. And go deal with it in a professional matter, not on a forums board for gamers.
I am posting here to warn other potential investors. Whiting is scrapping the bottom of the bucket, why do you think he came up with MMOGULS, a MLM for Gamers???? Now that's a genius move..
Go to WOW and just mention MMOGULS, you will be banned..
The MMOGULS office was shut down last week due to non payment of rent.. The CME offices are virtually empty, have been reduced to one studio instead of three and that studio is damn near vacant.
f you doubt what I say, call Tim Jenson, CEO of CME. He is about the only officer left, everyone else has bailed, most because payroll has not been met for 90-120 days and CME owes, among other things, over $3 million in payroll taxes. Their CFO and corporate counsel have resigned, all the developer talent is gone, they only have 5 worlds finished, and before everyone bailed, CME needed a minimum of $12Million and 6 months to finish the game.. That was in March..
Tim Jensen
President/CEO FireSky, A Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment Company
tjenson@firesky.com 480.656.6501
He is about the only one that won't lie, he may not tell you much, but have not known him to lie.
Instead of listening to sound advice, you continue. Do you think we are blind? You do realize that this very subject is being brought up on almost every mmorpg forums board including the main one. Not only that, they had a site with a counter for days when they would get paid even though they did get paid recently. You are not warning anyone. You are angry and think these boards are your outlet to spout claims already known and/or disproven. You have also posted this double time on two different accounts here. So your an investor, correct? I'm not sure of your age, and you still are steering around my question. But grow up and act a little more professional. These are gaming forums, not a court of law. Thanks for the head's up, but your late by about 6 months. Also thanks for posting an email of your friend or CEo, that may or may not be spammed to death. I'm sure he will appreciate it. Move on, seriously and quit responding. If you do, your showing that in fact your doing nothing more than sitrring up nonsense and or trolling for attention.
I'm sorry, but it's you who is making comments that you dont have knowledge of, or at least you are making accusations that you don't know what they entail.
An example of a Ponzi Scheme is:
You invest 300,000 dollars into Koopa Investments, and start getting monthly returns on your investments of 50,000 (which is a lot), but that monthly return isnt being generated by good investments that Koopa Investments is making on the stock market, rather it is being generated by new investors who are putting money into Koopa Investments.
You are describing a situation where people invested money into a company, and the company was surviving only on those investors because it wasnt generating cash flow.
So regardless of how grounded you think your claim is, it is most definitely NOT a ponzi scheme.
Also is English your native language?
Great. Let's use the mmorpg.com forums to settle personal vendettas now. /rolleyes
I am not in over my head dude, chump change to me, plus as soon as I started after Whiting he returned my money. Don't know where you are from or how old you are, but me, well Im just old fashioned. A former Marine from Dallas, Texas, a Republican , although not to proud of it at the moment. I have been in the retail auto business for 40 years and am always looking for a investment opportunity. I did my due diligence, even had my attorney talk to MGM corporate..
All appeared ok, UNTIL last years financial crisis reduced the investor pool dramatically. CME, with a burn rate of $1.1M+ a month started taking in less than $500,000 a month last fall.. With absolutely NO RESERVES, a rediculous payroll, and Whiting taking money out for personal use left and right, the fall was fast..
FYI, found out this was not their first rodeo, Fred Gagon's fall for Whiting 10 years prior to the launch of CME resulted in him being permanently banned from representing unregistered securities in Arizona, something he continues to try and do today..
This is all reason for a special investigator with the Arizona Corporation Commission to be assigned to the CME investigation..
And as for a Forum for Gamers... All my son's are avid gamers, I am not, unless you call online Poker a game, and I think not.
My sole purpose for this post is to keep anyone from investing in a project, Stargate Worlds, without full disclosure, or in MMOGULS, a MLM scam.. Not to worry guys, I dont have but a few minutes a night for this nonsense..
If the moderator thinks I am out of line or off topic, Ill gladly go away and finish watching the news..
I don't understand why you guys are attacking him. He's obviously distraught over being scammed. Whether or not he really did get scammed, I don't know. What I do know is that the information he provided does seem interesting and in my opinion warrants a little more attention. The TTH article about a potential MLM scheme by CME was also an interesting read.
I did check out the MMOGULs website and it does seem like an MLM scheme. They call their members "affiliates" and there is a blog post about combining work and leisure to make money.
Anyway, seems interesting to me. I sure do love a good conspiracy.
A typical reply from a internet genius with little or no real world experience. And you will have to excuse my typing, I took Football, girls and fast cars in high school and college, not typing..
Way too much info for this forum BUT ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Legal Definition of a PONZI.....
A fraudulent investment plan in which the investments of later investors are used to pay earlier investors, giving the appearance that the investments of the initial participants dramatically increase in value in a short amount of time.
A Ponzi scheme is a type of investment Fraud that promises investors exorbitant interest if they loan their money. As more investors participate, the money contributed by later investors is paid to the initial investors, purportedly as the promised interest on their loans. A Ponzi scheme works in its initial stages but inevitably collapses as more investors participate.
A Ponzi scheme is a variation of illegal pyramid sales schemes. In a pyramid sales plan, a person pays a fee to become a distributor. Once the person becomes a distributor, he receives commissions not only for the products he sells but also for products sold by individuals that he
brings into the business. These new distributors are beneath the person who brought them into the pyramid scheme, so they are "under the pyramid." In illegal pyramid schemes, only the people at the top of the pyramid make substantial money because they get a commission from the products sold by everyone below them. As more people become distributors, the persons lower in the pyramid have less chance to make money.
A Ponzi scheme was once was called a "bubble," but it was renamed in 1920 after Charles Ponzi and his Boston-based company had collected almost $10 million from ten thousand investors by selling promissory notes that claimed to pay 50 percent profit in forty-five days. When the scheme was exposed, a Boston bank collapsed, and investors lost most of their money.
Ponzi, an Italian immigrant, thought of profiting from the widely varying currency exchange rates for International Postal Reply Coupons (IPRCs), which were redeemed for stamps. IPRCs were intended to facilitate the sending of international mail. The sender put an IPRC, rather than a stamp, on a piece of mail going to another country, and the recipient exchanged the IPRC for the appropriate stamp in her country.
Ponzi contended that he could pay a small amount for IPRCs in weak-currency countries and then redeem them at a substantial profit in the United States. He correctly noted that a stamp transaction might yield a 400 percent profit, but the amount of profit in real terms was very small. Nevertheless, he promoted his idea through his Boston-based Securities Exchange Company. In March 1920 he began soliciting funds for purchasing the IPRCs with a promised 40 percent return in ninety days. Bank interest rates at the time were just five percent. Investors started loaning Ponzi their money, and within a short time he increased the promised return on forty-five-day notes to 50 percent. He also promised a 100 percent return on funds loaned to him for ninety days. He pledged to refund money on demand to any investor before the loan period was up.
Money soon flooded Ponzi's offices. By July 1920 he was taking in $1 million a week. Ponzi made an arrangement with the Hanover Trust Company of Boston to deposit his funds. Hanover officials soon realized that Ponzi was not paying his initial investors with interest income but with the deposits of the new investors. Nevertheless, the bank eagerly sold Ponzi a large amount of its stock.
On August 2, 1920, a Boston newspaper revealed the fraud and reported that Ponzi was hopelessly insolvent. Thousands of victims immediately demanded refunds. Ponzi paid as many as he could but exhausted his funds in a week. He then declared Bankruptcy. In bankruptcy, the court ordered all of the persons who had been paid by Ponzi during the life of the scheme to return the proceeds to the bankruptcy trustee, who distributed the money on a pro rata basis to all of the other victims. Ponzi was eventually convicted of fraud in both state and federal court and imprisoned for several years.
The Ponzi scheme did not end with Charles Ponzi. It has proved to be a reliable scam in which persons are lured into giving their money to con artists who promise enormous financial returns. The early cycle of a Ponzi scheme appears to confirm the reliability of the investment, as some investors are paid the promised returns. The scheme is doomed to collapse when not enough new money exists to pay old obligations.
A fraudulent investment plan in which the investments of later investors are used to pay earlier investors, giving the appearance that the investments of the initial participants dramatically increase in value in a short amount of time.
A Ponzi scheme is a type of investment Fraud that promises investors exorbitant interest if they loan their money. As more investors participate, the money contributed by later investors is paid to the initial investors, purportedly as the promised interest on their loans. A Ponzi scheme works in its initial stages but inevitably collapses as more investors participate.
A Ponzi scheme is a variation of illegal pyramid sales schemes. In a pyramid sales plan, a person pays a fee to become a distributor. Once the person becomes a distributor, he receives commissions not only for the products he sells but also for products sold by individuals that he
brings into the business. These new distributors are beneath the person who brought them into the pyramid scheme, so they are "under the pyramid." In illegal pyramid schemes, only the people at the top of the pyramid make substantial money because they get a commission from the products sold by everyone below them. As more people become distributors, the persons lower in the pyramid have less chance to make money.
A Ponzi scheme was once was called a "bubble," but it was renamed in 1920 after Charles Ponzi and his Boston-based company had collected almost $10 million from ten thousand investors by selling promissory notes that claimed to pay 50 percent profit in forty-five days. When the scheme was exposed, a Boston bank collapsed, and investors lost most of their money.
Ponzi, an Italian immigrant, thought of profiting from the widely varying currency exchange rates for International Postal Reply Coupons (IPRCs), which were redeemed for stamps. IPRCs were intended to facilitate the sending of international mail. The sender put an IPRC, rather than a stamp, on a piece of mail going to another country, and the recipient exchanged the IPRC for the appropriate stamp in her country.
Ponzi contended that he could pay a small amount for IPRCs in weak-currency countries and then redeem them at a substantial profit in the United States. He correctly noted that a stamp transaction might yield a 400 percent profit, but the amount of profit in real terms was very small. Nevertheless, he promoted his idea through his Boston-based Securities Exchange Company. In March 1920 he began soliciting funds for purchasing the IPRCs with a promised 40 percent return in ninety days. Bank interest rates at the time were just five percent. Investors started loaning Ponzi their money, and within a short time he increased the promised return on forty-five-day notes to 50 percent. He also promised a 100 percent return on funds loaned to him for ninety days. He pledged to refund money on demand to any investor before the loan period was up.
Money soon flooded Ponzi's offices. By July 1920 he was taking in $1 million a week. Ponzi made an arrangement with the Hanover Trust Company of Boston to deposit his funds. Hanover officials soon realized that Ponzi was not paying his initial investors with interest income but with the deposits of the new investors. Nevertheless, the bank eagerly sold Ponzi a large amount of its stock.
On August 2, 1920, a Boston newspaper revealed the fraud and reported that Ponzi was hopelessly insolvent. Thousands of victims immediately demanded refunds. Ponzi paid as many as he could but exhausted his funds in a week. He then declared Bankruptcy. In bankruptcy, the court ordered all of the persons who had been paid by Ponzi during the life of the scheme to return the proceeds to the bankruptcy trustee, who distributed the money on a pro rata basis to all of the other victims. Ponzi was eventually convicted of fraud in both state and federal court and imprisoned for several years.
The Ponzi scheme did not end with Charles Ponzi. It has proved to be a reliable scam in which persons are lured into giving their money to con artists who promise enormous financial returns. The early cycle of a Ponzi scheme appears to confirm the reliability of the investment, as some investors are paid the promised returns. The scheme is doomed to collapse when not enough new money exists to pay old obligations.
I like an intelligent response, so if you are really interested, I can show you what the second of three CEO's of MMOGULS said upon his resignation from MMOGULS.. Three CEO's in 6 months and they are now looking for the fifth to replace the fourth who just submitted his resignation, they are also looking for an office..
Keeping the website up is small change and MMOGULS only source of revenue..... If the credit card processor, VisionBank does not pull out..
Thanks much for the fast reply!
Exactly, you weren't promised interest. You invested in a company that was producing a video game...how did you expect to get returns on that money?
And as a man who claims to be such a fortwright investor, and always looking for a good investment, you should have noticed that this would not be it.
In fact, speaking very generally, I would avoid any video game sector - especially independant/small companies, even more so on the MMO front.
I find it odd that you claim to be someone who deals with investments and always has your eye out etc etc, yet you expected to make a return on a game before it released, and dont understand what a ponzi scheme is.
Also, I find irony in the fact that you call me an internet genious with no real life experience, yet you claim to have majored in fast cars and girls.
EDIT: you claim to be scammed, whether or not you were is unknown, but it isn't a ponzi scheme. Not all scams are ponzi schemes.
Sorry Semper but MMOs are about the worst investment you can make, only a few of them actually earns money.
Sure, Blizzard do great and SOE, NC soft, CCP and Turbine do ok. But even companys like Mythic and Funcom ain't doin particulay well, and the only small company coming out from nowhere that did great the last 5 years is Arenanet and that is because Blizzards 3 top programmers quited and started it.
If you want to invest in a MMO you should invest money in Blizzard or Bioware, they are really the only safe cards you have right now, CCP/white wolf might be worth a look too even though that still is kinda risky.
But any comapny that have not made a bestseller game or worse, no game whatsoever is always risky. Even people who made hit games before is a unsure card, look on Vanguard and Tabula rasa, Vanguard have few players and TR is dead.
The best thing you can hope for with SWG is probably that CME sells it to SOE
I actualy Read up on this. Checked internet google ext.
Appears yes, they are being sued by alot of people, yes most there emoloyees including studio head quit over lack of pay.
Obviosly this game is not coming out. 5 min of google searching basicly confirms that.
I feel bad for the Staff of this MMO most of all. Being associated with a product like this can really hurt a resume, and your wallet when you stop getting a check due to poor management.
I am suprised that Star Gate, doesn't revoke their licensing of their product.
ohhh, man. This sucks, and i wish you and anyone else that gets scammed much good fortune.
First of all if even 1% of what SemperFiVet is saying is true then it's something to be watchful for. Don't lambast the guy for trying to expose this and quit it with the personal attacks. Most of you probably don't know about investing and investing in technology CAN be profitable... it just takes time. For example, I invested in Electronics Arts stock a little over three months ago with very good gains as their stock went up as I predicted (ignoring recent activity).
So, SemperFiVet is either a disgruntled employee or he is seriously trying to warn us, I think it's the latter. While I doubt too many people here were or are going to invest in something like Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment it's good that the word is at least out there. How else would someone get the word out? This is like a grassroots exposure campaign.
It does sound crooked. It sounds like mismanagement and that Whiting has been using some suspicious business practices. Its something that is become more and more common these days. Everyone has to be able to see all the cheap little games out there (that require some payment) that have risen due to the "Indie" age. Not all of them are good investments, not all of them are going to ketch, not all of them are even going to be managed correctly.
It'll be interesting to watch these developments and this topic.
Hey Jeff, could you post any relevent links?
I found this interesting thread about Cheyenne Mountain melting down... http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2620420