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A flaw i noticed
humwha
Member Posts: 38
Well i consider it a flaw and im kinda worryed it might be somthing that continues threwout the game.
From the review
"At one point, I broke off from the group to do a little solo exploring, and I quickly realized that I had no idea where I was. For me it was a really unique experience in an MMO because there was no radar in the upper corner showing me where I was on the map. There was no arrow pointing the way to go. I was actually lost, which made for a truly immersive experience, and this was only on the tiny test island we were placed on. I can only imagine what the immersion of being lost in a much larger and inhabited world would be like."
Ah somthing that looks neat on paper but flawed to the core.
Anyone remeber the reason they added minimap's to the game or playing before them?
They added them because of the inconvience factor of geting lost all the time and while you may think "aww noobs get worryed about being lost" There was a more balanced issue of giving them to everyone because that info is always feed to the client kinda has to be, and people used custom ui to get maps and track other players.
So your enemy knew where you were and you did not, a giant issue. So rather than give 1 side a advantage they gave it too everyone. Even tho people can still do it with having a mini-map casual players won't do it, but a causal player will hunt for somthing like a mini map for the convenance and take the tracking as a bonus if you don't give it to them.
Issues like this in the name of being hardcore and not paying attention to the past does not give me hope for this game.
Comments
Mapmaking will be a skill. You'll be able to learn areas, but the first time you go there you'll be completely lost.
I kinda like it.
It seems to me that you're just searching for an issue so you can't dislike the game.
That just sounds freakin awesome.
That just sounds freakin awesome.
Exactly! For me, it's just one of hundreds of little decisions that they've made to enhance the game and bring in a bit of realism.
More like a 'fog of war' thing that is only in place the first ime you go somewhere? That would not have any great advantages to modding other than the first few weeks, not worth the time I would have thought. The feature to me does sound good but I do see the caustion of the OP if it were a permanant thing.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
I agree with the OP somewhat.
People seem to be blindly saying "It's awesome" before actually trying it for themselves. It sounds potentially awesome, but also sounds like once the "cool factor" wears off - it could just end up being a huge pain in the ass.
This is one of those features I'll have to wait to try for myself before I pass judgement on it.
Reality is a pain in the ass. Getting lost in the middle of nowhere is a pain in the ass... that's the whole point of it.
I think it brings in more of a sense of peril, as well as a sense of adventure... going through the woods to find out what's on the other side, vs looking at the map and seeing a "STORMWIND" scrolled beautifully across it.
Well im not really looking for somthing to hate just paying attention to flaws, i like alot about the game but i don't like ignoring flaws in planing because of Realism or Hardcore reasons.
There's an enormous difference between a "flaw", as you put it, and a feature that will be liked or disliked based on personal opinion.
Your original terminology does make it look like you're searching for problems, whether that's the case or not.
Additionally, current games with minimaps have been hacked with "radar" programs to gain similar advantages. Should minimaps be abolished for this?
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
This isn't a flaw, it isn't a mistake. It is there by design, and it is at the core of what they want the game to be. If not having a mini map is that big of a deal for you, then this just isn't the right type of game for you.
However you need to realize that just because you don't like a feature, that doesn't mean that it is a flaw. I'm sure it will work exactly as planned.
Well the game will definately not be for everyone. For some people they see things like instant travel, mini maps, auction houses, global banks and organized bags all as good things. They might remember in old games how hard it was to do things, while others remember those same things as being a fun challenge. This is really the difference in what MO wants to make, and what DF failed at doing. Not everyone will like it, the developers have acknowledged it many times but they feel there are a sufficient number out there that do want these things to build a game for. Yes there will be player made maps and player made compasses, but you might not always have such luxuries. I suggest if you dont like the idea of getting "lost" in a modern MMO that maybe it isnt the right game? I do not mean that in any sort of condescending way, just that everyone has different tastes.
Part of the fun in a new game is getting losted and exploring.
Sooner or Later
Have to agree with the people supporting mape making.
This isn't something an MMO has EVER done. It's a completely new feature. This is the kind of thing that will make it feel like you're actually in a world. People love realism in their entertainment, the best movies out there suck you in and make you feel like what you're watching is real. It's no different for video games.
Crafting in MO is going to be the main source for everything. Bows, arrows (dev actually took the time to respond to a thread asking about this not too long ago), sword, maps, everything. As such getting gear isn't going to be an epic undertaking. The devs have related it to something vaguely like Oblivion. You can run around and in the first twenty minutes in that game have a full set of steel gear or better if you know where to go.
MO has full loot PvP as well, which means let's say you're in a guild that has a secret base. Your guild survives on keeping this base a secret and only gives out maps with it's location marked to higher ranked members. If someone kills someone and they have their map on them then your base has been compromised. Point here though is that you can HIDE the location of your stuff, it doesn't just automatically appear on maps everywhere.
On that same full loot note, if you die and lose all of your gear, you aren't SOL. You can still get some cheaper gear or probably even free gear from friends. I like MO for the ability it could have to bring back a sense of community. I play games with my friends and what not, but I haven't played an MMO with my crew in a very long time that has made any of us feel like we actually relied on each other. The WoW-era MMO's don't really instill a sense of community, you might raid with a guild, but for the most part it's not like you really rely on a group. Nothing compared to back in the days when I played L2 and had massive betrayals go down during a siege.
Great summary of why this is really a great feature... and if I find any of you giving out the location of our secret base... SMACK!
This isn't a flaw, it isn't a mistake. It is there by design, and it is at the core of what they want the game to be. If not having a mini map is that big of a deal for you, then this just isn't the right type of game for you.
However you need to realize that just because you don't like a feature, that doesn't mean that it is a flaw. I'm sure it will work exactly as planned.
I kinda agree with both of you. It is not a "flaw", because that's the way it's meant to be. But It is a huge problem for me. I don't find getting lost to be fun. And fun is why I play games. There are gamers who want to be challenged, and for them that IS fun. And there are gamers who want to be entertained, and for them, that is fun.
This game is probably not for the second type...me.
This isn't a flaw, it isn't a mistake. It is there by design, and it is at the core of what they want the game to be. If not having a mini map is that big of a deal for you, then this just isn't the right type of game for you.
However you need to realize that just because you don't like a feature, that doesn't mean that it is a flaw. I'm sure it will work exactly as planned.
I kinda agree with both of you. It is not a "flaw", because that's the way it's meant to be. But It is a huge problem for me. I don't find getting lost to be fun. And fun is why I play games. There are gamers who want to be challenged, and for them that IS fun. And there are gamers who want to be entertained, and for them, that is fun.
This game is probably not for the second type...me.
I dont think the fun is getting lost.. the fun comes from the threat of getting lost, from avoiding getting yourself lost... from ganking some poor dumb sob and taking his map
This isn't a flaw, it isn't a mistake. It is there by design, and it is at the core of what they want the game to be. If not having a mini map is that big of a deal for you, then this just isn't the right type of game for you.
However you need to realize that just because you don't like a feature, that doesn't mean that it is a flaw. I'm sure it will work exactly as planned.
I kinda agree with both of you. It is not a "flaw", because that's the way it's meant to be. But It is a huge problem for me. I don't find getting lost to be fun. And fun is why I play games. There are gamers who want to be challenged, and for them that IS fun. And there are gamers who want to be entertained, and for them, that is fun.
This game is probably not for the second type...me.
I dont think the fun is getting lost.. the fun comes from the threat of getting lost, from avoiding getting yourself lost... from ganking some poor dumb sob and taking his map
LOL
Many humans died to get us this information.
(Mon Mothma: Many Bothans died to get us this information)
I mean this one feature could open up the ability to be a SPY. You get hired to go scout for an enemy hideout, all you have is a general location and they are killing people who venture into their territory on sight. So you have to sneak in, find their location, make a map of how to get there and (hopefully) the layout of the base and get out with the map.
Or let's say you stumble upon some ruins and inside there is a lot of treasure and other goodies that would net a lot of gold, but you don't have enough carrying cap to take it all. You have to mark the location and how you got there on your map and get back to town, sell/store the stuff you have, get pack horses and head back out there and hope no one lacking in morals spots you and wonders why you're leading pack horses into the mountains.
The chances are they are going to sell very basic maps with the location of major NPC cities on them for like five copper (whatever is cheap) from an NPC shop. Whether or not you'll be able to see yourself on the map is another matter, personally I don't care. Reading a map isn't hard, average joes have been during it for thousands of years.
This all goes back to the OPs type of gamers. The norm now for the MMORPG genre. I want everything without any effort or thinking involved.
That is what this is all about. The OP does not want to think while playing video games, he wants everything handed to him without putting in the effort. It is what is ruining the genre. The instant gratification crowd.
Effort does not equal time.
This is a great feature not a flaw, this will reward the smart gamer. It will allow players to create a niche in the market. Hidden locations, exploring, getting lost. Those are all good things.
Sooner or Later
I remember the reason they added minimaps... to make more money atracting people like you. What are you doing here again? Go play any of the hundred MMOs with a minimap.
lol all of a sudden im a carebear for saying that theres a possible flaw in your game you love without playing.
You assume too much, i like the idea and concept of no mini-map however i think within the first 3 months around there someone will have created a mapping program that tells them where you are maby a month later you will be screaming exploit on the forums cause your geting ganked by people with a advantage over you ;p.
Since its a skill to have a mini map depending on how hard it is to get and how well it works all this might be moot if its a week to get a decent working mini map this prob wont be a problem but if it uses up a skill slot or is in anyway hard to get or maintain this senario will happen.
I also love the logic on this forum, " YOU DONT LIKE BEING FRUSTRATED LIKE ME BAHHHH GET OUT" and when your alone in 6 months after release going "bah there no one to gank bah carebears" it will be sad ;(
You seem to be expecting something without ever playing the game...
at some point they imply that you will be able to make maps of areas, and use them in game.
It won't have a minimap that locates players and npcs... or list locations...
But we have no idea how people will react to it.
I am almost positive it will not be a good experience for those who don't want to work at knowing the game...
But i'm not sure that is the type of customer SV wants.
This is their game, and it sounds like they are going to make it the way they like. For people who want something that isn't in their plan... they can and will probably show those players the door. It isn't like there are not many options to choose from that have the feature you might be looking for... if it is that important.
Nobody was calling you a carebear, there's no need to get all defensive on us. Now take a drink out of your sippy-cup and try to relax a little.
I dont think anybody was ever calling you a carebear but you keep saying the things we enjoy are "flaws" which is a bit of a insult. Many of us here have had to go through disappointment after disappointment as we watched our loved games change for "mainstream" tastes. Most of us might be a little defensive as soon as we see people complain and moan until the games we loved once change into something we no longer recognize. This is a niche game for a niche crowd, this is the game StarVault wants and its personally the game I want.
Sure there will be online maps posted of all the in game content before long, but you still will not know where you are on the map as long as the dev's keep coordinates away from 3rd party programs. I dont care if they go the Blizzard route and install spyware. Anyway, these are my feelings I hope you see where some of us are coming from.
I dont think anybody was ever calling you a carebear but you keep saying the things we enjoy are "flaws" which is a bit of a insult. Many of us here have had to go through disappointment after disappointment as we watched our loved games change for "mainstream" tastes. Most of us might be a little defensive as soon as we see people complain and moan until the games we loved once change into something we no longer recognize. This is a niche game for a niche crowd, this is the game StarVault wants and its personally the game I want.
Sure there will be online maps posted of all the in game content before long, but you still will not know where you are on the map as long as the dev's keep coordinates away from 3rd party programs. I dont care if they go the Blizzard route and install spyware. Anyway, these are my feelings I hope you see where some of us are coming from.
They probably won't be able to, and map tracking hacks will appear almost immediately. Worse, there's no need for feedback so I suspect it will be mostly undetectable.
We'll have to see how well it works out in practice. Could be cool, could really suck. Could just force everyone to get the map making skill. So much for variety of builds.
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I dont think anybody was ever calling you a carebear but you keep saying the things we enjoy are "flaws" which is a bit of a insult. Many of us here have had to go through disappointment after disappointment as we watched our loved games change for "mainstream" tastes. Most of us might be a little defensive as soon as we see people complain and moan until the games we loved once change into something we no longer recognize. This is a niche game for a niche crowd, this is the game StarVault wants and its personally the game I want.
Sure there will be online maps posted of all the in game content before long, but you still will not know where you are on the map as long as the dev's keep coordinates away from 3rd party programs. I dont care if they go the Blizzard route and install spyware. Anyway, these are my feelings I hope you see where some of us are coming from.
They probably won't be able to, and map tracking hacks will appear almost immediately. Worse, there's no need for feedback so I suspect it will be mostly undetectable.
We'll have to see how well it works out in practice. Could be cool, could really suck. Could just force everyone to get the map making skill. So much for variety of builds.
Or, it could make the explorer/cartographer another viable way to play the game, making it more of an actual sandbox game.
If we're going to preemptively level the playing field because of inevitable hacks, then perhaps all characters should be able to fly, have rader, be invisble, run at supersonic speeds, have infinite hit points and stamina, and walk through walls.
I'm guessing the next "flaw" the OP will discover will be the lack of universal banks. *GASP*
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.