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Dungeons & Dragons Online: No PvP
Admin
Administrator RarePosts: 5,623
Turbine Announced today that there will be no PvP in Dungeons & Dragons Online, their highly anticipated MMORPG based in the official D&D rulebook. The following post was made in their forums:
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Hi Everyone, Since we opened up this site, one of the most-discussed topics has been player vs. player (PvP) gameplay -- will there be PvP in Dungeons & Dragons Online? If so, how will it be implemented? Full-scale PvP areas? PvP servers? Duels? Arenas? PvP gameplay will not be a part of the initial launch of Dungeons & Dragons Online. I think we've been pretty clear from the beginning that DDO was never going to be a game with a heavy PvP component. If this wasn't explicitly stated, it's always been there between the lines -- our focus is on party-based adventures, dungeon crawls, a living city, and an epic campaign. Not large-scale PvP combat. The strongest argument for this decision, in our opinion, is the fact that PnP Dungeons & Dragons has never been a PvP-oriented system. Yes, we know that the bad guys in D&D can be human sorcerers as easily as they can be, say, owlbears. But in the PnP tradition, that evil sorcerer is played by the DM, not another player. And while PnP sessions that pit characters against each other can be fun for a temporary campaign that lasts one or two sessions, the classic D&D campaign is all about the characters working together (or mostly together) to solve their problems and advance the story. Now, it's true that some of the problems that exist with excessive player conflict in PnP D&D -- namely, having only one DM for two or more opposing groups of characters -- are not as much of an issue in DDO, where our server acts as the DM for all characters. This is why PvP is something we discussed in depth during the early stages of development. But the thing that we kept coming back to was that PvP gameplay just doesn't fit our idea of D&D, either in a PnP format or a massively-multiplayer format. We know that some of you are going to disagree with us, but ultimately it was not a good fit for Dungeons & Dragons Online. So that's our explanation for not having a heavy PvP component. But what about a light PvP component? Just because the primary focus of our game is the PvE campaign, that doesn't mean that we can't have some PvP on the side, right? We didn't decide on this one until more recently, but the decision ended up being the same -- we aren't going to have duels or arenas in the initial launch either. The primary reason for this is that the D&D rules aren't really balanced for one-on-one fights, and we don't want to have to mess with them in order to make dueling work. One of our key development mantras is that we're keeping the game specs tight -- we're not doing everything, but what we are doing is going to be really, really good. I really wish that we could be all things to all people (it would make my job a bit easier), but unfortunately we can't. To those of you who were looking forward to PvP in DDO, I sincerely apologize, but we honestly feel that this is the best decision for the game as a whole. - Xundau |
You can view this on the official boards at this link.
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.
Comments
I won't have to worry about playing this game now.
No PvP in the PnP D&D?
Oh, come on now. Who here hasn't killed an annoying younger sibling or or annoying rules lawyer who got out of hand? PvP was never a big part of my D&D experiences, but the plausible threat was always a useful tool for keeping the slackers in line
The biggest reason there wasn't much PvP was the logistics. If you could have had a pair of DMs run two seperate, competing treams in the same game session, PvP would have been an interesting option. Also, the most fun me and my players had was when our high level characters split over the little issue of good and evil and started waring against each other in the Greyhawk setting. Daeron and Bibly bringing the hordes of Iuz under their control, while Fingolfin, Aragorn and Spike rallied the forces of Bissel. Those were fun times
I think the excuse that it doesn't feel right basedf on the PnP game is wrong. I hope they at least offer a consentual Duel system, but a grander system would be welcome by me.
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Thank you, thank you , thank you!
Finally someone takes a stand. I'm tired of seeing games try to be everything for everybody. If you want PVP play a PVP game, stop trying to get them to put in PVP in a PVE game. PVP games concentrate on play balancing and spend lots of resources keeping it balanced and fun. They don't have time to make quests and computer opponents, etc... Same thing for PVE games, their resources are spent making the PVE element fun and dynamic. If you can't do it right DON'T do it.
I also think he is right on the money about D&D not being a PVP game, it's always been about friends getting together and achieving a common goal, not seeing how you do head to head.
Cop out? I'd much rather them make a PvE game that adhears to the 3.5 rules than bend and twist it so that it caters to PvP. As you can tell I'm not a fan of PvP and probably never will be. D&D is about roleplaying not bashing other clans, guilds, families, groups of adventures or whatever.
My opinion may not be the same as yours and that's perfectly fine
Adinion
Troll Priest
[NonFactor]
an "optional pvp" system is a must have in the current MMO genre. Even if its not very sophisticated, creatures only supply a limited number of strategies and intelligance. Eventually, people crave the challenge of fighting something that is completely unpredictable(which is a person). Later on, people will post how to kill this mob or that mob, etc.. It happens in every game. After awhile, the zing just disappears. You kill the same creatures over and over and it gets boring.
The problem is, PnP is all imagination, you could do ANYTHING you wanted(or that the DM allowed). In a PC game, you are limited by the core programing and cannot go beyond what the devs lay out. PvE only games just dont work well. Even EQ has some PvP. Horizons is like a vegetable on life support.
Thats just my opinion anyways
Thank Mother Mary of God!!!
I totally understand the disappointment of people who love and think PvP is an essential part of a MMO. But what you guys/gals do not understand is that trying to balance a game for both is just plain impossible. Like the announcement said you sometimes cannot be all things to all people. This rings so true when trying to make a balanced game with both PvP and PvE. I personally cannot stand PvP in a PvE oriented game. DnD has always been a PvE game from the start. I do hope they eventually make part and parcel for the PvP gamer but if they try to develop the game with both in mind one or the other is imminently going to suck. Bottom line. You have to choose which is going to the main focus in the game. Set that point as the development basis and go from there. Then when that product shines you can move to the other form, either PvP, GvG, PvE, or whatever, and almost implement a second game within the game. Even developing for just PvE you have to balance for soloing and grouping. When you throw in PvP or GvG play things just get all out of whack and you have an entire game that tries to cater everyone.
A very simple analogy that I am sure everyone has heard of will end up like this "Jack-of-all-trades Master of none!". Yeah you might be able to implement all of this in a single game but what you end up with is a hodge-podge gameplay wise where no one is happy. I applaud the devs for choosing their stance and going with it. But I also feel sorry for the PvP gamer who wanted this type of play to be part of the game at launch. I am sure if the PvP's bide their time PvP gameplay will surely make it in in some for or manner it will just not be at launch. If Turbine does not eventually implement PvP that will just hurt them in the pocket book.
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Control is an illusion!
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Control is an illusion!
Amen to that! PvE Team Play in a D&D environment could be sweet. We'll see if they do it right.
/HoldBreath
/SignUpForBeta
I think every game should atleast have a /duel option. And didnt i hear that this game will have Real Time combat? no spreadsheets or number crunching for combat? So this being a dnd game, i dont see why they are worried about variances from the original if they have changed the core way that combat works.
No thanks. Keep your PvP. There will be lots of games for you to play, but this one evidently won't be one of them.
EDIT: I stated that a bit strongly. I like the idea of PvP. But when you have a game where you have 100 levels (or whatever) and the wide range of efficacy between players that brings, PvP just will not be fair. Even with level limits (which is contrived), the power curve and certainty of those who have min-maxed their chars brings additional unfairness. Plus most PvP MMOGs have frameworks that are unbalanced from the start.
PvP is just too hard a thing to properly do, that developers who want a great story and adventure won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. Not to mention the terrible publicity that a broken PvP engine brings. Lore that has holes or boss mobs that are unbeatable don't have nearly the damaging effect as a failed PvP system. People are passionate about that because they take getting ganked unfairly so personally...
I happen to love PVP but Even I could have predicted this....
D&D online is simply not made for PVP. It does not fit the context of the game they have created. This will still be a fantastic game for grouping and roleplay. The pen and paper D&D we played never involved any PVP and it was still a blast. There are plenty of online games out there that provide PVP in a setting where it makes sense.
I think this is the right decision for this particular game.
ROLEPLAYERS UNITE!!!!!
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
How is it made in a way that PvP dosent makesense? Arnt they still early in development?I I understand including PvP is tuf but Lineage 2 did it and its realy fun and they always change and fix things so there isnt only one dominent PvP class.
Signaturen-Creator
Lineage 2 might have some problems with it but it has the best PvP i think and their character models rock especialy the elves its all about PvP if u dont want PvP and take over a castle then the game is no fun. Its still on my mind to go back to it later the reason i quit was cuz i sold my pc i still think about how i wanna make a Dark Elf assasin and fight against those punk chiniese fun fun.
P.S
Converting to P.V.P is a religeous experiance
Signaturen-Creator
~Yeti
...systems owned; Pong, ColecoVision, Commodore Vic20, Atari 2600, Atari 5200, Intellivision I & II, Nintendo, SNES, Sega, Gamegear, 32x, Sega CD, Philips CDi, 3DO, Comp, Playstation, XBox (only a few I have not owned, yet probably played hehe)
...enjoying Fable & MKD currently.
2nd sig... http://home.mchsi.com/~tattooedyeti/MxO_Yeti.gif
~Yeti
I have to agree with the Starman this time around. While I am a hardcore fan of PVP, it really isn't a feasible option for DnD (considering you've ever played PnP, you know what I'm talking about). I do wish that they would add some sort of a way to compete other than EQ-style mostuberestloothoarder. I'm sure that after launch they will add something along the lines of arenas and dueling; however, for launch, I have no problem with there being no PvP.
Edit: Thoom, you're pretty lame and close-minded. Contrary to the popular belief, PvP adds a great deal of entertainment to an MMO. I don't know about you, but stomping the crap out of some mob over and over again just isn't all that challenging. Not the same mob? Oh yeah it is, it just looks different and has a lot more HP than it did when you were level 1. Add a few effects and a bigger model and you have Uber-Thaxos the Squirrel Lord Pt.3
While I understand that this is not for everyone, as most people enjoy just wading their way through mindless scripts and feeling leet, I don't go out there and say that people who don't like PvP are aging wusses. Personally, I love PvP and I'm far from a kiddie, I'm 25 years old and probably been gaming for longer than most.
Otto!
I'm looking for some friends that I lost contact with over the years...
EQ: Horlain (Firiona Vie)
DAOC: Kaizur (Guinevere)
On the contrary, DnD was entirely PvP. The oposition was always controlled by a human DM, and the better the DM the more varied the fights and monsters were. Unless they can make some kind of 2001 HAL AI then I think I'll find the experience very disappointing.
As for the ignorant who claim PvP is only wanted by "kiddies" and "punks" guess again. Anyone who has made it into the higher levels of of a good PvP game knows that simply isn't true. The average age of my DAoC guild is somewhere in the mid twenties and the Inner Circle are all adults with families.
PS. The best RP i've ever had was in PvP situations. Until you've followed your countrymen onto the battlefield screaming a warcry and seen an intelligent enemy massing on the other end doing the same, you've never been drawn into a game the way I have.
Yet another idiotic post- I don't like either of those games. What is up with you people? You get all upset, panties in a twist over someone who enjoys dynamic combat. If you're so in on PVE, why don't you just play a single player game, no monthly fee required! If it's because of the socializing part, run the game in a window and alt+tab your way back and forth between a yahoo chat room.
You think PVE is the apex of MMO's? You must've not really played any long enough to approach the end game. You know what used to happen in EQ? People got so bored we would PRETEND to get mad at each other so we could /duel and get some excitement. I remember being level 40+ watching a large group of evil players slaughtering my city guards and yelling out obscenities at all of us and we couldn't do a damn thing about it, cos they sure as hell wouldn't /duel me. Yeah, that's a pretty awesome ROLE PLAYING experience, isn't it?
Oh, and when that got old, people would pay lowbies to do nasty cyber things with their avatars for gold. I remember one time, we had these two level 3 HE chicks and we gave them a gold each to RP a bisexual encounter. Heh, you shoulda seen the stuff we made them RP out with my wizard's staff.
You're right, PVP only detracts from a game.
Otto!
I'm looking for some friends that I lost contact with over the years...
EQ: Horlain (Firiona Vie)
DAOC: Kaizur (Guinevere)
Yeah, lets make it PvP so we can really nerf things down so they wouldn't be horribly unbalanced. I would rather they focus on making the game play like D&D instead of some half-ass funked up version.
If you can't see the difference in balancing to PvE and PvP you have not played many online games. Hell, check out DAoC, they balance/re-balance crap all the time.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
nice, glad the dev's know what they are doing...
Don't get me wrong I like pvp, but there are tons of other games I can play for pvp.
This will be a nice way of keeping down the shit talkers and whinners that infest pvp games and pvp servers...
Looking good for those who enjoy RP in a mmorpg.
- GRAFFiX -
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