The problem isnt mmorpgs or the people who are unemployed, its the mentality of those who dont have much time to play and then complain about not 'being on top' or being able to 'get to the end'. If you could/would look at it like something your slowly building and is going to take a long time, meanwhile, having fun within the game world in your spurts of play, you'd probably be much better off.
Mmorpg's shouldnt adapt to the casual gamer, imo that just dumbs them down(see CoH). Even CoH has an excuse since its fairly a new game, and ultimately the constant with EVERY mmorpg is to have endless content that NOBODY runs out of. Then you hear the complaining that a game might have too much content from the casual gamers because they want everything immediately, or expect neverending games to be based around their limited play times. Its just very unrealistic to expect to 'be on top' of a neverending game if you play only a few hours a week.
Casual gamers tend to blame mmorpg's all the time for not catering to them. I'd argue those casual gamers shouldnt play mmorpg's if they want to get to the end within a month of their limited playtime. Its just being very egocentric, thinking games should wait around for you or based around your very limited playtime when there are so many other players to account for. The bottomline being casual gamers are at fault due to their mentality. Mmorpg's or hardcore players arent, every mmorpg should strive for as much content and gameplay as possible.
Originally posted by Tyrgris Oh and to Dystopium, I think you should look in the mirror and not use the mirror to project your own thoughts. Now your statement is the farthest from the truth I have ever seen. Most people I know that are Uber GODS of MMORPG's are people that more than likely make more money in a week than you make in a month. Trust me, I have met a lot of good people IRL that have a lot of time on their hands and their homes make my 280K home look like a summer home to theirs.
Yeah.. And they have bought their accounts on ebay...Right?
Originally posted by Clever_Glove Jelliousy isn't very decomming. This is a very shallow assumtion you have made. Most people that play MMO's are young and male, or old and female. I know a number of retired peoples that play MMO's a fair amount. And why not? Some may be self employed, they have worked very hard to get to a point a where they can "take off" time just to play. In acutallity neither is often the case. Playing Smarter > playing allot. The people that play MMO"s are generally people using the game as a chat interface. *snipped the plagiarized portion* ________________________________
In English your second lanuguage or do you have a first?
I'm astounded how you know so little and yet know it so fluently.
In the future, kindly proofread your posts before assaulting unsuspecting readers of MMORPG with a litany of misspellings, egregious grammatical errors, and other verbal atrocities.
Originally posted by Tyrgris Oh and to Dystopium, I think you should look in the mirror and not use the mirror to project your own thoughts. Now your statement is the farthest from the truth I have ever seen. Most people I know that are Uber GODS of MMORPG's are people that more than likely make more money in a week than you make in a month. Trust me, I have met a lot of good people IRL that have a lot of time on their hands and their homes make my 280K home look like a summer home to theirs.
Yeah.. And they have bought their accounts on ebay...Right?
Once again, here is someone that reflects what he knows or thinks of others doing, because he assumes that others think like him.
Dystopium, obviously you are very pessimistic and tend to think in a very narrow and negative path. Most people who behave this way are ones that just can't figure out how others do so well in the world and are only left to assume they cheat, lie and deceive to get what, where and how they want things in life. When it is the most far from the truth and the ones that accually do this are people like you that just can't conceive how others are so successful and still have time on their hands to be successful in other things in life. The ones you speak of and the need for ebay are a complete different story.
Originally posted by rohbshop The problem isnt mmorpgs or the people who are unemployed, its the mentality of those who dont have much time to play and then complain about not 'being on top' or being able to 'get to the end'. If you could/would look at it like something your slowly building and is going to take a long time, meanwhile, having fun within the game world in your spurts of play, you'd probably be much better off. Mmorpg's shouldnt adapt to the casual gamer, imo that just dumbs them down(see CoH). Even CoH has an excuse since its fairly a new game, and ultimately the constant with EVERY mmorpg is to have endless content that NOBODY runs out of. Then you hear the complaining that a game might have too much content from the casual gamers because they want everything immediately, or expect neverending games to be based around their limited play times. Its just very unrealistic to expect to 'be on top' of a neverending game if you play only a few hours a week. Casual gamers tend to blame mmorpg's all the time for not catering to them. I'd argue those casual gamers shouldnt play mmorpg's if they want to get to the end within a month of their limited playtime. Its just being very egocentric, thinking games should wait around for you or based around your very limited playtime when there are so many other players to account for. The bottomline being casual gamers are at fault due to their mentality. Mmorpg's or hardcore players arent, every mmorpg should strive for as much content and gameplay as possible.
I don't know what games you are talking about. However most of the MMO's I have ever played they don't cater to the hardcore gamer. However, they tend to cater more towards the casual gamer.
Infact the most casual gamer doesn't complain about grinding or other things. The most complaint about the casual gamer is grievers.
The big complaint from hardcore gamers are that there isn't enough content to keep up with their play, the game seems more like a grind, treadmill and fex-Ex questing. Hardcore gamers which are a small percent compared to the casual gamer online. So if you rid the MMO of casual gamers then the game will loose it's major subscription base. You can't say that most players are Hardcore, then we would have a big problem and so would the devs. They can't create content fast enough for the hardcore gamer that tends to treat the game like a level grind, treadmill hunting and fed ex questing.
Infact a lot of devs would rather have casual gamers than hardcore gamers on thier servers. And the reason why is because HCG's rob bandwitdh, complain about questing, hunting and not enough new quests. They race through everything, because they want to stay on top instead of enjoying the game as the devs wanted it to be. The only benefit they provide is that they have done most things and the devs figure they will assist others that haven't done them things yet. However they devs are slowly learning that most HCG's don't stop to help and only feel they are there to slow them down and wind up being rude to the other players feeling they are in the way of them making their progress.
The way I see it is the HCG's don't pay anymore than the casual gamer and they tend to use up more bandwitdh. They are rude, inconsiderate and obnoxious to the community. However there are a few other types of HCG's that do help and even use their extra time to lead guilds and even make walk thru's to assist the less fortunate. However, one day we will see we all get what we pay for if you know what I mean. It was here once before and I am sure it will come back in one form or the other. Now, if anyone has anything to gripe about will be the casual gamer because they will be complaining that if the HCG's didn't hog all the bandwidth so much that the MMO's wouldn't have restricted our time in the first place. Don't believe it is coming? Wait and see. It won't be like it was 10 years ago but it will be similar. Eventually we all will be somehow paying for the bandwidth we are using. Infact a lot of devs are already talking about it.
However, to say that the casual gamer dumbs down the MMO community I think not. It is the HCG that is create problems and forcing the MMO community to make alternative rules that affect complete gameplay just because you have too much time on your hands. Infact if I had it my way I would limit all gamers to 6 hours a day. In the end you would thank the devs for it or atleast your family would.
Originally posted by DevilHawk Didnt anyone ever tell you, "Its the journey and the way you got there, not the destination that counts." ? If they did, then they are full of it... lol
Sounds like to me you should be playing a FPS game not a RPG. Most people that think that way are ones that have a self-esteem problem IRL and use the MMORPG to grind their way to the top thinking they are impressing everyone and get a IRL high on their self-esteem. However, it might as well be deflated and be told the truth. We all know that you didn't get there by playing the game but working it. Anyone that works a game....grinds, treadmills and fed ex the quests all the way through. begging for stuff, getting infofrom other players rather than from the NPC's and more.
So, when I see people saying that MMORPG's don't need NPC's, Monsters, Quests, Storylines and etc.. Then I know exactly how you play the game. However, I suggest you should go play WWII Online or save yourself some money and go buy Half-Life2, Doom3, STALKER, Metal of Honor AA or PA, BF 1942, BFV or many others that are out there... Oh wait, you say they all get too many hacks like aimbots, wallhacks and such??? Well, still sounds like your type of gaming. You don't want any rules, guidelines or paths to follow, so playing FPS and using cheats I think is the best you will find in that REALM.
To me people like you don't play games to have FUN with others. You play games to artificially boost your low self esteem so you can have fun pissing others off. What a lot of us are beginning to understand is that there are a lot of that type in the gaming industry and have shown to be a plague in the MMO communities, polluting it's design and functionallity. Some day it will cost money per hour to play these games and on top of that there will be private servers for people that have passed a MMPI psychological evaluation just to get in them private servers.
(I hope most of you don't take my last paragraph too serious, well atleast most of you, LOL)
Whiners about grind, whiners about no content lol, peeps who attack others for there bad english or blunt talking.
Peeps complain about fall behind becouse they can not play much and you know what in 5 years still same argue about this.
PLAY THE GAMES HAVE FUN CASUAL AND HARDCORE.
Believe me games need them both.
Its useless to try to defend your thinking and say others see it wrong everybody has his view of how game should be played or should not be played so have peace with it and enjoy the games you play stop complaining about what others say or think.
flame me for whine and complain about whiners and complainers and my bad english :P
flameflame
WoW will btw be verygood for hardcore i play in CB and when you can play alot like me you on top in no time:P
I have no work i wear glasses wash my self ones a month forget to eat many times so im thin no social life alienate from the real world,damn i need a DOCTOR:P
I have held a full time job while having a full class load at Boston University and still manage to play enough to get into a top raiding or rvr guild depending on the game. Having a rl does not exclude you from being good at mmorpgs. Although I guess I have a distinct advantage being an insomniac and only sleeping 10-20 hours a week is kinda nice lol.
Originally posted by rohbshop The problem isnt mmorpgs or the people who are unemployed, its the mentality of those who dont have much time to play and then complain about not 'being on top' or being able to 'get to the end'. If you could/would look at it like something your slowly building and is going to take a long time, meanwhile, having fun within the game world in your spurts of play, you'd probably be much better off. Mmorpg's shouldnt adapt to the casual gamer, imo that just dumbs them down(see CoH). Even CoH has an excuse since its fairly a new game, and ultimately the constant with EVERY mmorpg is to have endless content that NOBODY runs out of. Then you hear the complaining that a game might have too much content from the casual gamers because they want everything immediately, or expect neverending games to be based around their limited play times. Its just very unrealistic to expect to 'be on top' of a neverending game if you play only a few hours a week. Casual gamers tend to blame mmorpg's all the time for not catering to them. I'd argue those casual gamers shouldnt play mmorpg's if they want to get to the end within a month of their limited playtime. Its just being very egocentric, thinking games should wait around for you or based around your very limited playtime when there are so many other players to account for. The bottomline being casual gamers are at fault due to their mentality. Mmorpg's or hardcore players arent, every mmorpg should strive for as much content and gameplay as possible.
So what your saying is that people who have a family and a life other than gaming are stupid?
One other thing I don't care when I get to the end of a game its the problem of if you are not in a big guild or a hard core player you can't get there because there is always someone there where you need to go. So in that sense yes the game should allow ALL players to actually play the game not just run around can't do anything cuz its all camped. They should have a time limit or something to that effect is all I am saying so that even the casual player can experience the whole game. It shouldnt take a guild 5 hours to prepare to kill something. My best friend was in Isenguard, Familjen, and also Fires of Heaven every time he went with his guild it took them just that many hours to get ready to kill something so that takes up time for others who are waiting to kill the same thing. THAT IS RIDICULAS!! I also stated that the game should be for all players to experience. Not just the casual gamer which can be done
"Suddenly I heard a Tapping..as of someone gently Rapping..Rapping at my Chamber door". You heard me Rapping right?
"Suddenly I heard a Tapping..as of someone gently Rapping..Rapping at my Chamber door". You heard me Rapping right?
Originally posted by rohbshop The problem isnt mmorpgs or the people who are unemployed, its the mentality of those who dont have much time to play and then complain about not 'being on top' or being able to 'get to the end'. If you could/would look at it like something your slowly building and is going to take a long time, meanwhile, having fun within the game world in your spurts of play, you'd probably be much better off. Mmorpg's shouldnt adapt to the casual gamer, imo that just dumbs them down(see CoH). Even CoH has an excuse since its fairly a new game, and ultimately the constant with EVERY mmorpg is to have endless content that NOBODY runs out of. Then you hear the complaining that a game might have too much content from the casual gamers because they want everything immediately, or expect neverending games to be based around their limited play times. Its just very unrealistic to expect to 'be on top' of a neverending game if you play only a few hours a week. Casual gamers tend to blame mmorpg's all the time for not catering to them. I'd argue those casual gamers shouldnt play mmorpg's if they want to get to the end within a month of their limited playtime. Its just being very egocentric, thinking games should wait around for you or based around your very limited playtime when there are so many other players to account for. The bottomline being casual gamers are at fault due to their mentality. Mmorpg's or hardcore players arent, every mmorpg should strive for as much content and gameplay as possible.
I don't know what games you are talking about. However most of the MMO's I have ever played they don't cater to the hardcore gamer. However, they tend to cater more towards the casual gamer.
Infact the most casual gamer doesn't complain about grinding or other things. The most complaint about the casual gamer is grievers.
The big complaint from hardcore gamers are that there isn't enough content to keep up with their play, the game seems more like a grind, treadmill and fex-Ex questing. Hardcore gamers which are a small percent compared to the casual gamer online. So if you rid the MMO of casual gamers then the game will loose it's major subscription base. You can't say that most players are Hardcore, then we would have a big problem and so would the devs. They can't create content fast enough for the hardcore gamer that tends to treat the game like a level grind, treadmill hunting and fed ex questing.
Infact a lot of devs would rather have casual gamers than hardcore gamers on thier servers. And the reason why is because HCG's rob bandwitdh, complain about questing, hunting and not enough new quests. They race through everything, because they want to stay on top instead of enjoying the game as the devs wanted it to be. The only benefit they provide is that they have done most things and the devs figure they will assist others that haven't done them things yet. However they devs are slowly learning that most HCG's don't stop to help and only feel they are there to slow them down and wind up being rude to the other players feeling they are in the way of them making their progress.
The way I see it is the HCG's don't pay anymore than the casual gamer and they tend to use up more bandwitdh. They are rude, inconsiderate and obnoxious to the community. However there are a few other types of HCG's that do help and even use their extra time to lead guilds and even make walk thru's to assist the less fortunate. However, one day we will see we all get what we pay for if you know what I mean. It was here once before and I am sure it will come back in one form or the other. Now, if anyone has anything to gripe about will be the casual gamer because they will be complaining that if the HCG's didn't hog all the bandwidth so much that the MMO's wouldn't have restricted our time in the first place. Don't believe it is coming? Wait and see. It won't be like it was 10 years ago but it will be similar. Eventually we all will be somehow paying for the bandwidth we are using. Infact a lot of devs are already talking about it.
However, to say that the casual gamer dumbs down the MMO community I think not. It is the HCG that is create problems and forcing the MMO community to make alternative rules that affect complete gameplay just because you have too much time on your hands. Infact if I had it my way I would limit all gamers to 6 hours a day. In the end you would thank the devs for it or atleast your family would.
You seem to be filled with generalities. I specifically pointed out CoH as a casual gamers game, in fact the dev's say it and the casual gamer playerbase is expectant of the "Dev's to cater to them to the point that it dumbs down the game. You probably couldnt even tell me a game that specifically caters to casual gamers more than CoH does, nor one where the dev's will actually say thats who their game is made for, and limit their rewards as a result because they dont want the separation in player-power that good practical rewards that might actually be useful to the player be allowed. Its a major envy issue that drives these casual gamers.
If you visit CoH's forums it was filled with casual gamers crying about not putting in capes for everyone at lvl 1, and how they whine that Cryptic went back on their word and not catering to them. Whats funny about that is i believe its only lvl 20 you have to reach in order to get a cape which is like literally a few weeks of playing for anyone. The problem is all these 'casual gamers' expect and want everything given to them. They dont want to have to 'work' for any long-term goals, nor anything thats of practical use to the person. They call that 'EQ-style', since we all know EQ made you 'work' for what you acquired. So CoH puts in fluffy crap rewards that have no practical use like badges or costume changes because their so afraid of the casual gamers crying about how much more powerful the guy that spends twice the amount of time they do in the game is than them. And from the perspective of someone who enjoys all kinds of games, i call that dumbing down. Why the hell would i want to quest or work towards something that is of no practical use to me, and all there for show? Which basically summarizes CoH, the ultimate casual gamer mmorpg.
Dont go acting games like SWG, UO, EQ, DAOC, AO, etc, etc. are made for casual gamers. I guarantee you they dont cater or base their game around casual gamers as much as CoH does. They are constantly putting in high lvl content because they know if they cater to the high lvl player their extending the life of their game. All they do is have to put up with some whining from some casual gamers of how much a hill they have to climb to be with the hardcore gamers or get to the end. Reality is mmorpg's are neverending games, and to limit a mmorpg just because some casual gamers dont want to climb and would rather have a free ride for everything is dumbing down.
I dont know what 'casual gamer games' your speaking of specifically, since the only one i can think of that specifically caters to them at the expense of everyone else is CoH. No wonder people last a few weeks and realize how repetetive and limited that game is. Its just a dumbed down version of a true mmorpg.
And let me try and feed some logic to you. EQ worked well because Verant catered to the top 1% like the FoH's, Asension, etc. What these players were, were live testers for the many encounters that were put in and as a result the encounters or balance of loot worked more correctly for the less hardcore player or casual player when they eventually reached those lvls. Its a sound way of doing things, and EQs success cant be argued.
Originally posted by rohbshop The problem isnt mmorpgs or the people who are unemployed, its the mentality of those who dont have much time to play and then complain about not 'being on top' or being able to 'get to the end'. If you could/would look at it like something your slowly building and is going to take a long time, meanwhile, having fun within the game world in your spurts of play, you'd probably be much better off. Mmorpg's shouldnt adapt to the casual gamer, imo that just dumbs them down(see CoH). Even CoH has an excuse since its fairly a new game, and ultimately the constant with EVERY mmorpg is to have endless content that NOBODY runs out of. Then you hear the complaining that a game might have too much content from the casual gamers because they want everything immediately, or expect neverending games to be based around their limited play times. Its just very unrealistic to expect to 'be on top' of a neverending game if you play only a few hours a week. Casual gamers tend to blame mmorpg's all the time for not catering to them. I'd argue those casual gamers shouldnt play mmorpg's if they want to get to the end within a month of their limited playtime. Its just being very egocentric, thinking games should wait around for you or based around your very limited playtime when there are so many other players to account for. The bottomline being casual gamers are at fault due to their mentality. Mmorpg's or hardcore players arent, every mmorpg should strive for as much content and gameplay as possible.
So what your saying is that people who have a family and a life other than gaming are stupid?
One other thing I don't care when I get to the end of a game its the problem of if you are not in a big guild or a hard core player you can't get there because there is always someone there where you need to go. So in that sense yes the game should allow ALL players to actually play the game not just run around can't do anything cuz its all camped. They should have a time limit or something to that effect is all I am saying so that even the casual player can experience the whole game. It shouldnt take a guild 5 hours to prepare to kill something. My best friend was in Isenguard, Familjen, and also Fires of Heaven every time he went with his guild it took them just that many hours to get ready to kill something so that takes up time for others who are waiting to kill the same thing. THAT IS RIDICULAS!!
"Suddenly I heard a Tapping..as of someone gently Rapping..Rapping at my Chamber door". You heard me Rapping right?
you people need to be realistic instead of expecting a perfect world where everything works perfectly well, and everyone is perfectly happy. Because there will ALWAYS be someone crying/whining.
Argue with my logic instead of beiing offended that you choose to play never-ending games then complain about how your never going to "get to the end" or "be on top" due to your limited playtime. I dont care if you work 10 jobs and have 2 min's to play a mmorpg everyday, the reality is your time to play is alot more limited, and in a persistant online world, your going to be behind other people who have more liesure time.
I run a business from 8-5pm mon-fri. I have some liesure time but i dont spend it all playing games, much less mmorpg's these days. You dont see me crying about how i'll never reach the top in some mmorpg, and expect the game makers to dumb it down for me, or somehow zip me to the top. You definitely wont see me expectant of them to put me on equal footing of someone who plays 10x's more than i do, its a frickin game, you progress more the longer you play, so why cant some of you just accept that? Instead you casual gamers try and blame powergamers or game makers, act like all games are made specifically for casual gamers when they arent, and try and find some scapegoat to place all the blame on. and thats not if your not already blaming all games like the original poster.
When will you people wakeup and realize YOUR the problem. You need to get over your envy of other players, what they might have, where they might be in relation to you, and just have fun within your limited playtime. Its like you people want to win the race but dont want to run the distance to get to the end, then expect the race to accomodate your inability to run it. Get over yourself, its a fact of games in general, the longer you play, the more time/work you put into them, the further you will advance. So sorry if your Jamaican and have 100 jobs to do along with raising a milliion kids, bottomline is your whining about your own envy and circumstance
OK I don't know if your not reading your own words when you post or even if you read the other ppls posts before you reply. I'm not even going to bother showing you. I am done with this topic and you said you were talking logic?
"Suddenly I heard a Tapping..as of someone gently Rapping..Rapping at my Chamber door". You heard me Rapping right?
"Suddenly I heard a Tapping..as of someone gently Rapping..Rapping at my Chamber door". You heard me Rapping right?
Originally posted by Tyrgris No doubt Ravenspawn. I was about to say the same thing when I was reading his reply to my post. But when I got about half way through his reply I realized he doesn't know what the heck he is talking about. Please rohbshop, don't keep responding. You logic is so ill it is nauseating. I think this is the PERFECT time for a quote from a old rock singer named Neal Young. Neal Young "You can't argue with a sick mind"
Actually, while i admit i didnt read or address Ravenspawns post exactly, i definitely addressed yours. Your one of those on the extreme ends of hating people who play more or have more than you in online games. I think Ravenspawn made some decent points that i overlooked probably because i was still more focused on your post.
Feel free to point out any flaws in logic in my reply to you. I'd be happy to explain the logic in it
PS your personal bias is really transparent. It may seem like i'm bias towards powergamers but i assure you i dont powergame these days at all. I probably spend less time towards games these days than you do. I just understand the simple idea that if someone plays a game more than i do, their likely going to be further ahead and have more than me in it. If you cant see the logic in that, then your right, theres no point debating it
The ideal MMORPG would benefit everyone, from the most casuals, to the most ''I live to play'' type.
The best way is to have many differents TOPs and systems, each with their own logic and their own rewards that doesnt affect the others.
Solo is, will always be, the main interest of the players. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main players stream.
If someone cant dream of ''reaching'' the top, they leave, there is no point in even playing the game...reaching it or not is irrelevant...thereby many games systems and many TOPs is a necessity.
You should consider playing CoH, even if you only have 1 or 2 hours per week to play it, you can be on the TOP of what you are doing(nobody can be stronger then you in the missions you are doing if you are doing it perfectly, okay they can be level 50 and maxed, they still cant be better then you in what you are doing, even if they also do it perfectly, and this matter a LOT to me).
- "Uh? What are you talking about? EQ2 and WoW as MMORPG? You must be confusing MMORPG with MMORG(raiding)''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye The ideal MMORPG would benefit everyone, from the most casuals, to the most ''I live to play'' type.
The best way is to have many differents TOPs and systems, each with their own logic and their own rewards that doesnt affect the others.
Solo is, will always be, the main interest of the players. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main players stream.
If someone cant dream of ''reaching'' the top, they leave, there is no point in even playing the game...reaching it or not is irrelevant...thereby many games systems and many TOPs is a necessity.
You should consider playing CoH, even if you only have 1 or 2 hours per week to play it, you can be on the TOP of what you are doing(nobody can be stronger then you in the missions you are doing if you are doing it perfectly, okay they can be level 50 and maxed, they still cant be better then you in what you are doing, even if they also do it perfectly, and this matter a LOT to me).
- "Uh? What are you talking about? EQ2 and WoW as MMORPG? You must be confusing MMORPG with MMORG(raiding)''
This is EXACTLY whats wrong with CoH imo, and why i call it 'dumbed down'. ITs a casual players utopia, except for the fact that a casual players utopia is full of fluff rewards that have no practical value due to the phobia of giving someone who plays more, more power than the casual player. So basically they dumb everything down to the shallow fluffyness CoH is. Nevermind that it has the lasting appeal of a few weeks for most more than casual gamers.
Casual players that play CoH dont want to envy other players who might play more(which i call a personal issue more than a game issue), and the solution CoH has come up with to cater to them is to take out anything that might make someone who plays more 'better'. So instead of practical rewards that might be useful to a player, or rewards that get better as you lvl, CoH offers show and tell rewards like badges or name titles that are of no real use. And the whole game feels alot more repetetive as a result, since the risk vs reward quotient isnt there, well, unless your really into stupid crap like changing your costume or wearing a badge/cape. Its like your rewards in that game is the ability to play Ken and Barbie to show off.
Say what you want about how games should be made for casual players, i strongly disagree using CoH as a perfect example of how shallow a game made for them is. EQ was one of the most mass-appealing games, still has a huge audience and they catered to the hardcore gamer. I'll never support casual gamers in their cries for attention, since what they want dumbs down games, and is more or less a personal issue they need to get over(envy).
Comments
The problem isnt mmorpgs or the people who are unemployed, its the mentality of those who dont have much time to play and then complain about not 'being on top' or being able to 'get to the end'. If you could/would look at it like something your slowly building and is going to take a long time, meanwhile, having fun within the game world in your spurts of play, you'd probably be much better off.
Mmorpg's shouldnt adapt to the casual gamer, imo that just dumbs them down(see CoH). Even CoH has an excuse since its fairly a new game, and ultimately the constant with EVERY mmorpg is to have endless content that NOBODY runs out of. Then you hear the complaining that a game might have too much content from the casual gamers because they want everything immediately, or expect neverending games to be based around their limited play times. Its just very unrealistic to expect to 'be on top' of a neverending game if you play only a few hours a week.
Casual gamers tend to blame mmorpg's all the time for not catering to them. I'd argue those casual gamers shouldnt play mmorpg's if they want to get to the end within a month of their limited playtime. Its just being very egocentric, thinking games should wait around for you or based around your very limited playtime when there are so many other players to account for. The bottomline being casual gamers are at fault due to their mentality. Mmorpg's or hardcore players arent, every mmorpg should strive for as much content and gameplay as possible.
Yeah.. And they have bought their accounts on ebay...Right?
Yeah.. And they have bought their accounts on ebay...Right?
Once again, here is someone that reflects what he knows or thinks of others doing, because he assumes that others think like him.
Dystopium, obviously you are very pessimistic and tend to think in a very narrow and negative path. Most people who behave this way are ones that just can't figure out how others do so well in the world and are only left to assume they cheat, lie and deceive to get what, where and how they want things in life. When it is the most far from the truth and the ones that accually do this are people like you that just can't conceive how others are so successful and still have time on their hands to be successful in other things in life. The ones you speak of and the need for ebay are a complete different story.
(Austin Powers: You just don't get it do ya?)
I don't know what games you are talking about. However most of the MMO's I have ever played they don't cater to the hardcore gamer. However, they tend to cater more towards the casual gamer.
Infact the most casual gamer doesn't complain about grinding or other things. The most complaint about the casual gamer is grievers.
The big complaint from hardcore gamers are that there isn't enough content to keep up with their play, the game seems more like a grind, treadmill and fex-Ex questing. Hardcore gamers which are a small percent compared to the casual gamer online. So if you rid the MMO of casual gamers then the game will loose it's major subscription base. You can't say that most players are Hardcore, then we would have a big problem and so would the devs. They can't create content fast enough for the hardcore gamer that tends to treat the game like a level grind, treadmill hunting and fed ex questing.
Infact a lot of devs would rather have casual gamers than hardcore gamers on thier servers. And the reason why is because HCG's rob bandwitdh, complain about questing, hunting and not enough new quests. They race through everything, because they want to stay on top instead of enjoying the game as the devs wanted it to be. The only benefit they provide is that they have done most things and the devs figure they will assist others that haven't done them things yet. However they devs are slowly learning that most HCG's don't stop to help and only feel they are there to slow them down and wind up being rude to the other players feeling they are in the way of them making their progress.
The way I see it is the HCG's don't pay anymore than the casual gamer and they tend to use up more bandwitdh. They are rude, inconsiderate and obnoxious to the community. However there are a few other types of HCG's that do help and even use their extra time to lead guilds and even make walk thru's to assist the less fortunate. However, one day we will see we all get what we pay for if you know what I mean. It was here once before and I am sure it will come back in one form or the other. Now, if anyone has anything to gripe about will be the casual gamer because they will be complaining that if the HCG's didn't hog all the bandwidth so much that the MMO's wouldn't have restricted our time in the first place. Don't believe it is coming? Wait and see. It won't be like it was 10 years ago but it will be similar. Eventually we all will be somehow paying for the bandwidth we are using. Infact a lot of devs are already talking about it.
However, to say that the casual gamer dumbs down the MMO community I think not. It is the HCG that is create problems and forcing the MMO community to make alternative rules that affect complete gameplay just because you have too much time on your hands. Infact if I had it my way I would limit all gamers to 6 hours a day. In the end you would thank the devs for it or atleast your family would.
Sounds like to me you should be playing a FPS game not a RPG. Most people that think that way are ones that have a self-esteem problem IRL and use the MMORPG to grind their way to the top thinking they are impressing everyone and get a IRL high on their self-esteem. However, it might as well be deflated and be told the truth. We all know that you didn't get there by playing the game but working it. Anyone that works a game....grinds, treadmills and fed ex the quests all the way through. begging for stuff, getting infofrom other players rather than from the NPC's and more.
So, when I see people saying that MMORPG's don't need NPC's, Monsters, Quests, Storylines and etc.. Then I know exactly how you play the game. However, I suggest you should go play WWII Online or save yourself some money and go buy Half-Life2, Doom3, STALKER, Metal of Honor AA or PA, BF 1942, BFV or many others that are out there... Oh wait, you say they all get too many hacks like aimbots, wallhacks and such??? Well, still sounds like your type of gaming. You don't want any rules, guidelines or paths to follow, so playing FPS and using cheats I think is the best you will find in that REALM.
To me people like you don't play games to have FUN with others. You play games to artificially boost your low self esteem so you can have fun pissing others off. What a lot of us are beginning to understand is that there are a lot of that type in the gaming industry and have shown to be a plague in the MMO communities, polluting it's design and functionallity. Some day it will cost money per hour to play these games and on top of that there will be private servers for people that have passed a MMPI psychological evaluation just to get in them private servers.
(I hope most of you don't take my last paragraph too serious, well atleast most of you, LOL)
LMAO if you read most forums almost all are same hehe.
Casual gamer attack powergamer/hardcore, powergamer attack casual gamer.
Whiners about grind, whiners about no content lol, peeps who attack others for there bad english or blunt talking.
Peeps complain about fall behind becouse they can not play much and you know what in 5 years still same argue about this.
PLAY THE GAMES HAVE FUN CASUAL AND HARDCORE.
Believe me games need them both.
Its useless to try to defend your thinking and say others see it wrong everybody has his view of how game should be played or should not be played so have peace with it and enjoy the games you play stop complaining about what others say or think.
flame me for whine and complain about whiners and complainers and my bad english :P
flame
flame
WoW will btw be verygood for hardcore i play in CB and when you can play alot like me you on top in no time:P
I have no work i wear glasses wash my self ones a month forget to eat many times so im thin no social life alienate from the real world,damn i need a DOCTOR:P
So what your saying is that people who have a family and a life other than gaming are stupid?
One other thing I don't care when I get to the end of a game its the problem of if you are not in a big guild or a hard core player you can't get there because there is always someone there where you need to go. So in that sense yes the game should allow ALL players to actually play the game not just run around can't do anything cuz its all camped. They should have a time limit or something to that effect is all I am saying so that even the casual player can experience the whole game. It shouldnt take a guild 5 hours to prepare to kill something. My best friend was in Isenguard, Familjen, and also Fires of Heaven every time he went with his guild it took them just that many hours to get ready to kill something so that takes up time for others who are waiting to kill the same thing. THAT IS RIDICULAS!! I also stated that the game should be for all players to experience. Not just the casual gamer which can be done
"Suddenly I heard a Tapping..as of someone gently Rapping..Rapping at my Chamber door". You heard me Rapping right?
"Suddenly I heard a Tapping..as of someone gently Rapping..Rapping at my Chamber door". You heard me Rapping right?
I don't know what games you are talking about. However most of the MMO's I have ever played they don't cater to the hardcore gamer. However, they tend to cater more towards the casual gamer.
Infact the most casual gamer doesn't complain about grinding or other things. The most complaint about the casual gamer is grievers.
The big complaint from hardcore gamers are that there isn't enough content to keep up with their play, the game seems more like a grind, treadmill and fex-Ex questing. Hardcore gamers which are a small percent compared to the casual gamer online. So if you rid the MMO of casual gamers then the game will loose it's major subscription base. You can't say that most players are Hardcore, then we would have a big problem and so would the devs. They can't create content fast enough for the hardcore gamer that tends to treat the game like a level grind, treadmill hunting and fed ex questing.
Infact a lot of devs would rather have casual gamers than hardcore gamers on thier servers. And the reason why is because HCG's rob bandwitdh, complain about questing, hunting and not enough new quests. They race through everything, because they want to stay on top instead of enjoying the game as the devs wanted it to be. The only benefit they provide is that they have done most things and the devs figure they will assist others that haven't done them things yet. However they devs are slowly learning that most HCG's don't stop to help and only feel they are there to slow them down and wind up being rude to the other players feeling they are in the way of them making their progress.
The way I see it is the HCG's don't pay anymore than the casual gamer and they tend to use up more bandwitdh. They are rude, inconsiderate and obnoxious to the community. However there are a few other types of HCG's that do help and even use their extra time to lead guilds and even make walk thru's to assist the less fortunate. However, one day we will see we all get what we pay for if you know what I mean. It was here once before and I am sure it will come back in one form or the other. Now, if anyone has anything to gripe about will be the casual gamer because they will be complaining that if the HCG's didn't hog all the bandwidth so much that the MMO's wouldn't have restricted our time in the first place. Don't believe it is coming? Wait and see. It won't be like it was 10 years ago but it will be similar. Eventually we all will be somehow paying for the bandwidth we are using. Infact a lot of devs are already talking about it.
However, to say that the casual gamer dumbs down the MMO community I think not. It is the HCG that is create problems and forcing the MMO community to make alternative rules that affect complete gameplay just because you have too much time on your hands. Infact if I had it my way I would limit all gamers to 6 hours a day. In the end you would thank the devs for it or atleast your family would.
You seem to be filled with generalities. I specifically pointed out CoH as a casual gamers game, in fact the dev's say it and the casual gamer playerbase is expectant of the "Dev's to cater to them to the point that it dumbs down the game. You probably couldnt even tell me a game that specifically caters to casual gamers more than CoH does, nor one where the dev's will actually say thats who their game is made for, and limit their rewards as a result because they dont want the separation in player-power that good practical rewards that might actually be useful to the player be allowed. Its a major envy issue that drives these casual gamers.
If you visit CoH's forums it was filled with casual gamers crying about not putting in capes for everyone at lvl 1, and how they whine that Cryptic went back on their word and not catering to them. Whats funny about that is i believe its only lvl 20 you have to reach in order to get a cape which is like literally a few weeks of playing for anyone. The problem is all these 'casual gamers' expect and want everything given to them. They dont want to have to 'work' for any long-term goals, nor anything thats of practical use to the person. They call that 'EQ-style', since we all know EQ made you 'work' for what you acquired. So CoH puts in fluffy crap rewards that have no practical use like badges or costume changes because their so afraid of the casual gamers crying about how much more powerful the guy that spends twice the amount of time they do in the game is than them. And from the perspective of someone who enjoys all kinds of games, i call that dumbing down. Why the hell would i want to quest or work towards something that is of no practical use to me, and all there for show? Which basically summarizes CoH, the ultimate casual gamer mmorpg.
Dont go acting games like SWG, UO, EQ, DAOC, AO, etc, etc. are made for casual gamers. I guarantee you they dont cater or base their game around casual gamers as much as CoH does. They are constantly putting in high lvl content because they know if they cater to the high lvl player their extending the life of their game. All they do is have to put up with some whining from some casual gamers of how much a hill they have to climb to be with the hardcore gamers or get to the end. Reality is mmorpg's are neverending games, and to limit a mmorpg just because some casual gamers dont want to climb and would rather have a free ride for everything is dumbing down.
I dont know what 'casual gamer games' your speaking of specifically, since the only one i can think of that specifically caters to them at the expense of everyone else is CoH. No wonder people last a few weeks and realize how repetetive and limited that game is. Its just a dumbed down version of a true mmorpg.
And let me try and feed some logic to you. EQ worked well because Verant catered to the top 1% like the FoH's, Asension, etc. What these players were, were live testers for the many encounters that were put in and as a result the encounters or balance of loot worked more correctly for the less hardcore player or casual player when they eventually reached those lvls. Its a sound way of doing things, and EQs success cant be argued.
So what your saying is that people who have a family and a life other than gaming are stupid?
One other thing I don't care when I get to the end of a game its the problem of if you are not in a big guild or a hard core player you can't get there because there is always someone there where you need to go. So in that sense yes the game should allow ALL players to actually play the game not just run around can't do anything cuz its all camped. They should have a time limit or something to that effect is all I am saying so that even the casual player can experience the whole game. It shouldnt take a guild 5 hours to prepare to kill something. My best friend was in Isenguard, Familjen, and also Fires of Heaven every time he went with his guild it took them just that many hours to get ready to kill something so that takes up time for others who are waiting to kill the same thing. THAT IS RIDICULAS!!
"Suddenly I heard a Tapping..as of someone gently Rapping..Rapping at my Chamber door". You heard me Rapping right?
you people need to be realistic instead of expecting a perfect world where everything works perfectly well, and everyone is perfectly happy. Because there will ALWAYS be someone crying/whining.
Argue with my logic instead of beiing offended that you choose to play never-ending games then complain about how your never going to "get to the end" or "be on top" due to your limited playtime. I dont care if you work 10 jobs and have 2 min's to play a mmorpg everyday, the reality is your time to play is alot more limited, and in a persistant online world, your going to be behind other people who have more liesure time.
I run a business from 8-5pm mon-fri. I have some liesure time but i dont spend it all playing games, much less mmorpg's these days. You dont see me crying about how i'll never reach the top in some mmorpg, and expect the game makers to dumb it down for me, or somehow zip me to the top. You definitely wont see me expectant of them to put me on equal footing of someone who plays 10x's more than i do, its a frickin game, you progress more the longer you play, so why cant some of you just accept that? Instead you casual gamers try and blame powergamers or game makers, act like all games are made specifically for casual gamers when they arent, and try and find some scapegoat to place all the blame on. and thats not if your not already blaming all games like the original poster.
When will you people wakeup and realize YOUR the problem. You need to get over your envy of other players, what they might have, where they might be in relation to you, and just have fun within your limited playtime. Its like you people want to win the race but dont want to run the distance to get to the end, then expect the race to accomodate your inability to run it. Get over yourself, its a fact of games in general, the longer you play, the more time/work you put into them, the further you will advance. So sorry if your Jamaican and have 100 jobs to do along with raising a milliion kids, bottomline is your whining about your own envy and circumstance
rohbshop,
OK I don't know if your not reading your own words when you post or even if you read the other ppls posts before you reply. I'm not even going to bother showing you. I am done with this topic and you said you were talking logic?
"Suddenly I heard a Tapping..as of someone gently Rapping..Rapping at my Chamber door". You heard me Rapping right?
"Suddenly I heard a Tapping..as of someone gently Rapping..Rapping at my Chamber door". You heard me Rapping right?
No doubt Ravenspawn. I was about to say the same thing when I was reading his reply to my post.
But when I got about half way through his reply I realized he doesn't know what the heck he is talking about.
Please rohbshop, don't keep responding. You logic is so ill it is nauseating.
I think this is the PERFECT time for a quote from a old rock singer named Neal Young.
Neal Young "You can't argue with a sick mind"
Actually, while i admit i didnt read or address Ravenspawns post exactly, i definitely addressed yours. Your one of those on the extreme ends of hating people who play more or have more than you in online games. I think Ravenspawn made some decent points that i overlooked probably because i was still more focused on your post.
Feel free to point out any flaws in logic in my reply to you. I'd be happy to explain the logic in it
PS your personal bias is really transparent. It may seem like i'm bias towards powergamers but i assure you i dont powergame these days at all. I probably spend less time towards games these days than you do. I just understand the simple idea that if someone plays a game more than i do, their likely going to be further ahead and have more than me in it. If you cant see the logic in that, then your right, theres no point debating it
The ideal MMORPG would benefit everyone, from the most casuals, to the most ''I live to play'' type.
The best way is to have many differents TOPs and systems, each with their own logic and their own rewards that doesnt affect the others.
Solo is, will always be, the main interest of the players. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main players stream.
If someone cant dream of ''reaching'' the top, they leave, there is no point in even playing the game...reaching it or not is irrelevant...thereby many games systems and many TOPs is a necessity.
You should consider playing CoH, even if you only have 1 or 2 hours per week to play it, you can be on the TOP of what you are doing(nobody can be stronger then you in the missions you are doing if you are doing it perfectly, okay they can be level 50 and maxed, they still cant be better then you in what you are doing, even if they also do it perfectly, and this matter a LOT to me).
- "Uh? What are you talking about? EQ2 and WoW as MMORPG? You must be confusing MMORPG with MMORG(raiding)''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
This is EXACTLY whats wrong with CoH imo, and why i call it 'dumbed down'. ITs a casual players utopia, except for the fact that a casual players utopia is full of fluff rewards that have no practical value due to the phobia of giving someone who plays more, more power than the casual player. So basically they dumb everything down to the shallow fluffyness CoH is. Nevermind that it has the lasting appeal of a few weeks for most more than casual gamers.
Casual players that play CoH dont want to envy other players who might play more(which i call a personal issue more than a game issue), and the solution CoH has come up with to cater to them is to take out anything that might make someone who plays more 'better'. So instead of practical rewards that might be useful to a player, or rewards that get better as you lvl, CoH offers show and tell rewards like badges or name titles that are of no real use. And the whole game feels alot more repetetive as a result, since the risk vs reward quotient isnt there, well, unless your really into stupid crap like changing your costume or wearing a badge/cape. Its like your rewards in that game is the ability to play Ken and Barbie to show off.
Say what you want about how games should be made for casual players, i strongly disagree using CoH as a perfect example of how shallow a game made for them is. EQ was one of the most mass-appealing games, still has a huge audience and they catered to the hardcore gamer. I'll never support casual gamers in their cries for attention, since what they want dumbs down games, and is more or less a personal issue they need to get over(envy).