Really cant be bothered typing so I'll just get to the point. MMORPG basically thinks that every MMO sucks.
Edit: Yes I know, I know all of wow's flaws having played it for 3 and a half years, don't bother listing them all.
Im amazed that you played WoW for 3 years, firstly. Mmorpg.com doesnt suck, but their proclivity to give every asian whack-a-mole game validity is a testiment to their sell-out on the mmorpg genre I think. Mmorpg players dont suck, but their expectation that they can live a virtual fantasy life to gain fulfillment while neglecting real-life is a sign of their delusional state, perhaps.
These are games, not intended to be virtual long-term endeavors with the way the vast majority are designed, liked WoW, whereby the game-play is overly redundent and static. They are another form of entertainment, like a book or movie, or taking part in a ball game.
I personally dont see how anyone can, and can expect to, gain anymore than 4-6 months of continued entertainment out of one, yes one, title. There are many types of personalities that play mmorpg's and I happen to gain my entertainment value out of each one I play, including WoW for 6 months, CoH for about 4, EVE for a few months, AoC for a few, PotBS for about 4 months, WAR for about 4, Atlantica Online for about 6, and the list goes on. If I pay about $50 for the box and $15 a month, then towards 4-6month play-time, that comes out to about $1 a day for entertainment value. Thats all I expect and look for.
Every game has it'sown unique twist and additive to the genre, except the afformentioned Asian window-dressing change, whack-a-mole impersonations of most other Asian mind-numbing games.
So, my impression is that mmorpg's seem to suck if I continuously play the same one repeatedly for more than 6 months, but my opinion is that there isn't one that is designed as a virtual reality that is worth any more time than that, and thats fine, as I said. Fine, since I've always gotten the entertainment value out of every tittle I've played.
Now onto Aion, and then Champions Online. /shrug Perhaps you and others should find another form of entertainment.
Really cant be bothered typing so I'll just get to the point. MMORPG basically thinks that every MMO sucks.
Edit: Yes I know, I know all of wow's flaws having played it for 3 and a half years, don't bother listing them all.
Im amazed that you played WoW for 3 years, firstly. Mmorpg.com doesnt suck, but their proclivity to give every asian whack-a-mole game validity is a testiment to their sell-out on the mmorpg genre I think. Mmorpg players dont suck, but their expectation that they can live a virtual fantasy life to gain fulfillment while neglecting real-life is a sign of their delusional state, perhaps.
These are games, not intended to be virtual long-term endeavors with the way the vast majority are designed, liked WoW, whereby the game-play is overly redundent and static. They are another form of entertainment, like a book or movie, or taking part in a ball game.
I personally dont see how anyone can, and can expect to, gain anymore than 4-6 months of continued entertainment out of one, yes one, title. There are many types of personalities that play mmorpg's and I happen to gain my entertainment value out of each one I play, including WoW for 6 months, CoH for about 4, EVE for a few months, AoC for a few, PotBS for about 4 months, WAR for about 4, Atlantica Online for about 6, and the list goes on. If I pay about $50 for the box and $15 a month, then towards 4-6month play-time, that comes out to about $1 a day for entertainment value. Thats all I expect and look for.
Every game has it'sown unique twist and additive to the genre, except the afformentioned Asian window-dressing change, whack-a-mole impersonations of most other Asian mind-numbing games.
So, my impression is that mmorpg's seem to suck if I continuously play the same one repeatedly for more than 6 months, but my opinion is that there isn't one that is designed as a virtual reality that is worth any more time than that, and thats fine, as I said. Fine, since I've always gotten the entertainment value out of every tittle I've played.
Now onto Aion, and then Champions Online. /shrug Perhaps you and others should find another form of entertainment.
Never once said MMORPG.com sucked. I stopped reading after the first paragraph because of your attitude, which beleive it or not, looks worse than mine. Also, your casual as hell. Your saying you spend 4 mounths on an MMO and then move on? Also, calling everyone here delusional because of the choice to play MMO's isn't very nice.
Edit: I gave it another shot at reading. Your saying that MMO's aren't ment to be long term? Can you explain why, after many years of being on the market, Blizzard continues to patch WoW and make expansions? ;/
Originally posted by --Name edited out--
EX-PRO PLAYER IN WOW HERE.THIS GAME IS GOOD! TRUST ME IM USED TO BE THE BEST IN WOW BUT JUST A N00B IN AION. ITS CHALLENGEING , TRY IT!
Really cant be bothered typing so I'll just get to the point. MMORPG basically thinks that every MMO sucks. No one likes WoW and that all the MMO's coming out, like Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so. Is there actually an MMO that's coming out that is actually supposed to reveloutionise the genre?
Edit: Yes I know, I know all of wow's flaws having played it for 3 and a half years, don't bother listing them all.
MMORPG.COM thinks everything is AWESOME, gets fat checks from game companies for placing hundreds of adds and writes biased reviews about Aion sucking up to everyone they can and banning everyone with another opinion labeling them as a troll.
Haha, you hit the nail on the proverbial head. Mmorpg.com community is like that. Either a rabid fanboy and an extreme hater, the latter the majority though. There are a few reasonable people around here, but they drown in the fanboy/hate wars.
Like wow, you're a casual nobody and noone like you, live in your basement, follow the crowd etc. Like Lotr, you're a casual nobody who like pretty gfx. Like FFXI, you're a wapanese(wannabe japanese). Like D&DO, omg they don't use D20, diz game sux and so on...
My hate game is Eve Online. I troll em now and then Been a while now though.
Really cant be bothered typing so I'll just get to the point. MMORPG basically thinks that every MMO sucks. No one likes WoW and that all the MMO's coming out, like Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so. Is there actually an MMO that's coming out that is actually supposed to reveloutionise the genre?
Edit: Yes I know, I know all of wow's flaws having played it for 3 and a half years, don't bother listing them all.
MMORPG.COM thinks everything is AWESOME, gets fat checks from game companies for placing hundreds of adds and writes biased reviews about Aion sucking up to everyone they can and banning everyone with another opinion labeling them as a troll.
The community is the opposite.
At least make the distinction.
Also, Aion is worse than Transformers 2.
...
Transformers 2 is the best film I've ever seen. o.o
Originally posted by --Name edited out--
EX-PRO PLAYER IN WOW HERE.THIS GAME IS GOOD! TRUST ME IM USED TO BE THE BEST IN WOW BUT JUST A N00B IN AION. ITS CHALLENGEING , TRY IT!
I personally dont see how anyone can, and can expect to, gain anymore than 4-6 months of continued entertainment out of one, yes one, title. There are many types of personalities that play mmorpg's and I happen to gain my entertainment value out of each one I play, including WoW for 6 months, CoH for about 4, EVE for a few months, AoC for a few, PotBS for about 4 months, WAR for about 4, Atlantica Online for about 6, and the list goes on. If I pay about $50 for the box and $15 a month, then towards 4-6month play-time, that comes out to about $1 a day for entertainment value. Thats all I expect and look for.
Less than a year sounds awfully short time for an MMO, IMO. A good MMO should keep you occupied for years at least. Maybe it's an outdated mindset, I'm not sure. Most companies do not think this way, from what I've noticed. They try to gather as many players as possible that don't play for longer than half a year, instead of trying to get a stable playerbase that stays loyal to the game for as long as possible. It's not wrong approach, I myself just prefer the latter.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
I personally dont see how anyone can, and can expect to, gain anymore than 4-6 months of continued entertainment out of one, yes one, title. There are many types of personalities that play mmorpg's and I happen to gain my entertainment value out of each one I play, including WoW for 6 months, CoH for about 4, EVE for a few months, AoC for a few, PotBS for about 4 months, WAR for about 4, Atlantica Online for about 6, and the list goes on. If I pay about $50 for the box and $15 a month, then towards 4-6month play-time, that comes out to about $1 a day for entertainment value. Thats all I expect and look for.
Less than a year sounds awfully short time for an MMO, IMO. A good MMO should keep you occupied for years at least. Maybe it's an outdated mindset, I'm not sure. Most companies do not think this way, from what I've noticed. They try to gather as many players as possible that don't play for longer than half a year, instead of trying to get a stable playerbase that stays loyal to the game for as long as possible. It's not wrong approach, I myself just prefer the latter.
Same here. I'd love to have a game again that kept me interested for more than a year with a combination of content and having a group of friends to explore it with. Well, I have the friends, just need the type of game I'm looking for. We played for years in UO, AC and SWG.
I don't see why anyone would want to just hop around MMOs every few months. ADD, maybe? A fear that they'll be "missing" something if they don't play everything, possibly? Who knows? Either way it's their game time and how they play concerns me only if that mentality permeates into the design process of MMOs. Which, it seemingly has.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Problem is that you are looking for the next BIG THING...
I think there is a real opportunity for Boutique style MMO's to enter the market place... Instead of trying to be the next WOW... New MMO's should narrow their target audience and make something that is truely original in concept. Focus on the experience and not the bells and whistles. And who cares if it doesnt get a million subcribers.
Problem is that you are looking for the next BIG THING... I think there is a real opportunity for Boutique style MMO's to enter the market place... Instead of trying to be the next WOW... New MMO's should narrow their target audience and make something that is truely original in concept. Focus on the experience and not the bells and whistles. And who cares if it doesnt get a million subcribers.
Ah, I agree with this. I don't like how -some- MMO's want to please every group of players.. it just waters down the experience. Make one aspect as good as possible and lure in a group of players that prefer that kind of gamestyle. It prolly won't be as successful as WoW, but I'm sure you could gather at least few million+ subscribers like that, easily.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Problem is that you are looking for the next BIG THING... I think there is a real opportunity for Boutique style MMO's to enter the market place... Instead of trying to be the next WOW... New MMO's should narrow their target audience and make something that is truely original in concept. Focus on the experience and not the bells and whistles. And who cares if it doesnt get a million subcribers.
Hm, your right. I guess I didn't really mean the next big thing. Rather just something that keeps a new MMO fresh and interesting. Aion has some good reviews but people say it's WoW in better graphics, not sure about Swtor either.
Originally posted by --Name edited out--
EX-PRO PLAYER IN WOW HERE.THIS GAME IS GOOD! TRUST ME IM USED TO BE THE BEST IN WOW BUT JUST A N00B IN AION. ITS CHALLENGEING , TRY IT!
By the writing in red you mean because of the time I took to play it I'm casual? I played WoW for 3 years because I enjoyed it, not because it took me so long to get to the end. In otherwords, 3 years of End game, not leveling.
No I'm saying that if you enjoyed it enough to keep playing it for 3 years that you probably enjoy the more casual type of game. The type of game where leveling is fast and easy, dying doesn't effect much, and you are directed to the quests and directed through the quests. A game that combat is, hit 2 4 1 5 3 2 6.
I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, just stating that if you do enjoy that type of game there are plenty others on the market right now that you might want to try. LotRO has a lot of this same feel but a much different experience.
By the writing in red you mean because of the time I took to play it I'm casual? I played WoW for 3 years because I enjoyed it, not because it took me so long to get to the end. In otherwords, 3 years of End game, not leveling.
No I'm saying that if you enjoyed it enough to keep playing it for 3 years that you probably enjoy the more casual type of game. The type of game where leveling is fast and easy, dying doesn't effect much, and you are directed to the quests and directed through the quests. A game that combat is, hit 2 4 1 5 3 2 6.
I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, just stating that if you do enjoy that type of game there are plenty others on the market right now that you might want to try. LotRO has a lot of this same feel but a much different experience.
I get you now.
Originally posted by --Name edited out--
EX-PRO PLAYER IN WOW HERE.THIS GAME IS GOOD! TRUST ME IM USED TO BE THE BEST IN WOW BUT JUST A N00B IN AION. ITS CHALLENGEING , TRY IT!
Actually, according to MMORPG.com, which I shall roughly define as staff writers and members, everything has pros and cons; it's just the negatives get stressed a lot more, thus leaving the impression that everything sucks.
People have high expectation of games. Gamers are also looking for different aspects of gameplay. I don't think it's fair on the part of the developers to be able to satisfy everyone's needs with one game.
To find a game that suits you, will just play the game and see if it attracts you. If not, there are hundreds of games listed on this site alone.
The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
Really cant be bothered typing so I'll just get to the point. MMORPG basically thinks that every MMO sucks. No one likes WoW and that all the MMO's coming out, like Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so. Is there actually an MMO that's coming out that is actually supposed to reveloutionise the genre?
Edit: Yes I know, I know all of wow's flaws having played it for 3 and a half years, don't bother listing them all.
One persons drink is another persons poison.
Your never going to find a thread here where everyone agrees to either like or dislike an MMO, we all have very different opinions.
Once you ignore the rabid haters or the Fanboi's your then going to find a decent mix of views and opinions, ofc your going to have to wade thru a mire of dross first to get to them but they are out there I can assure you.
Knowing noone wants to read a five-paragraph long post, I'm gonna leave this plain and simple. Not like I could write that much right now anyways.
I think the community here at MMORPG.com have been hurt and let down by previous MMOs and their expectations to the point that the first reaction to any new game and/or experience would be that of skepticism/criticism. Many people here have been around for longer than you'd expect, and have had their share of failed expectations. After a while people get calloused, though that's not necessarily a bad thing. As for the opposite end of the hype-spectrum, the "fanbois" haven't been here long enough to understand what the others have been through with their favorite genre. Again, not a bad thing.
People lose hope, and when they do, it's hard to gain it back, for better or for worse.
Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
Originally posted by --Name edited out--
EX-PRO PLAYER IN WOW HERE.THIS GAME IS GOOD! TRUST ME IM USED TO BE THE BEST IN WOW BUT JUST A N00B IN AION. ITS CHALLENGEING , TRY IT!
Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
WOW was great but after 2 or 3 years, I just got tired of the game. Nothing wrong with that if a game can hold my interest for 2 or 3 years it did a damn good job and was a "great" game for me. But it's just old, would you rather play Madden '05 or '10.
The last three major games, LOTR, WAR & AOC just didn't hold my interest for more than a couple months.
The only other game that has held my interst for years other than WOW was SWG (pre-cu & and cu was playable). SWG had many many flaws and really wasn't that polished, comparitatively to WOW, but the things SWG did good they did them great.
I'm really looking forward to TOR, because I have loved Bioware's RPGs in the past. It may not be the type of game that goes and goes but I'm 99% sure I will have a blast in the game for up to half a year, no one does storytelling like Bioware and that and all the classes will hold my interest for at least that long, after that who knows.
Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
That's not fair... to anyone.
Look, game trademark depends on demand of the market. Without this "commercialization", there would not be such variety in the MMO industry that we see today. Of course, there wouldn't be many games that have the same feel or look either, but that's besides the point. I prefer to see variety, and more importantly, competition. It challenges developers to step up and marketers to focus on players. In that aspect, power to the gamers.
Secondly, casual gamers have just as much to gain from MMOs than the elite "geeks". Before MMOs, we were all just stuck in front of our TV (or computer) screens, in typical geek mode, waiting for the credits to roll before letting that particular game collect dust (until we remember it again). With the advent of MMOs, we are taken out of that mode. Not only can we beat the tar out of monsters, but now we can take down mobs we wouldn't be able to solo or take out each other in high competition mode. We don't see rolling credits at the end of the game, because there's always something more to do.
I have great respect for the elite gamers that truly champion the game. You are the ones that people look up to, to take leadership positions (in groups, raids, and/or guilds). If I were that kind of player, I would relish in the glory and not lose faith in the lack of expertise by the casual players, because they contribute to the gaming experience too (whether it be positive or negative).
The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
So if you dont like games like EQ/SWG/UO, gtfo and go play single player games on consoles?
That's pretty harsh, I must say. WoW may have dumbed down some features in other MMOs before it, but it made it wayy easier to get into it. Therefore, more money, and you would hope, better games to come. Not all casual players can get full arena armor/best tier gear before the next raid/expansion/arena season.
Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
That's not fair... to anyone.
Look, game trademark depends on demand of the market. Without this "commercialization", there would not be such variety in the MMO industry that we see today. Of course, there wouldn't be many games that have the same feel or look either, but that's besides the point. I prefer to see variety, and more importantly, competition. It challenges developers to step up and marketers to focus on players. In that aspect, power to the gamers.
Secondly, casual gamers have just as much to gain from MMOs than the elite "geeks". Before MMOs, we were all just stuck in front of our TV (or computer) screens, in typical geek mode, waiting for the credits to roll before letting that particular game collect dust (until we remember it again). With the advent of MMOs, we are taken out of that mode. Not only can we beat the tar out of monsters, but now we can take down mobs we wouldn't be able to solo or take out each other in high competition mode. We don't see rolling credits at the end of the game, because there's always something more to do.
I have great respect for the elite gamers that truly champion the game. You are the ones that people look up to, to take leadership positions (in groups, raids, and/or guilds). If I were that kind of player, I would relish in the glory and not lose faith in the lack of expertise by the casual players, because they contribute to the gaming experience too (whether it be positive or negative).
And it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest.
What do I see on every forum for every new mmo that gets announsced? "I only have an hour to play and I want what the guy who has 10 hours to play has since I pay the same money.".
Casual players for the most part do not, and will not, accept that a game can be made NOT FOR THEM. Instead, they demand the game be fitted and changed FOR THEM. And because the devs see all that "casual" money floating out there, they oblige.
So whether I sound fair to you or not, my point still stands. There won't be any good games like our old games until either the casuals pick up their ball and go home, or devs make games for the pleasure of making games like they used to; with profit being a pleasing side effect rather than the sole driving force.
I'd even settle for a niche game made by indy devs solely for us "old timers". Unfortunately, so far we only got a SOE abortion named Vanguard and an assinine failure made by idiots named Darkfall.
Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
That's not fair... to anyone.
Look, game trademark depends on demand of the market. Without this "commercialization", there would not be such variety in the MMO industry that we see today. Of course, there wouldn't be many games that have the same feel or look either, but that's besides the point. I prefer to see variety, and more importantly, competition. It challenges developers to step up and marketers to focus on players. In that aspect, power to the gamers.
Secondly, casual gamers have just as much to gain from MMOs than the elite "geeks". Before MMOs, we were all just stuck in front of our TV (or computer) screens, in typical geek mode, waiting for the credits to roll before letting that particular game collect dust (until we remember it again). With the advent of MMOs, we are taken out of that mode. Not only can we beat the tar out of monsters, but now we can take down mobs we wouldn't be able to solo or take out each other in high competition mode. We don't see rolling credits at the end of the game, because there's always something more to do.
I have great respect for the elite gamers that truly champion the game. You are the ones that people look up to, to take leadership positions (in groups, raids, and/or guilds). If I were that kind of player, I would relish in the glory and not lose faith in the lack of expertise by the casual players, because they contribute to the gaming experience too (whether it be positive or negative).
And it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest.
What do I see on every forum for every new mmo that gets announsced? "I only have an hour to play and I want what the guy who has 10 hours to play has since I pay the same money.".
Casual players for the most part do not, and will not, accept that a game can be made NOT FOR THEM. Instead, they demand the game be fitted and changed FOR THEM. And because the devs see all that "casual" money floating out there, they oblige.
So whether I sound fair to you or not, my point still stands. There won't be any good games like our old games until either the casuals pick up their ball and go home, or devs make games for the pleasure of making games like they used to; with profit being a pleasing side effect rather than the sole driving force.
I pretty much agree but you lost me there at the end. In the real world its all about the money. Try going to your bank and telling them you want to borrow money for project X and tell them it wont make any money but it would be fun.
Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
That's not fair... to anyone.
Look, game trademark depends on demand of the market. Without this "commercialization", there would not be such variety in the MMO industry that we see today. Of course, there wouldn't be many games that have the same feel or look either, but that's besides the point. I prefer to see variety, and more importantly, competition. It challenges developers to step up and marketers to focus on players. In that aspect, power to the gamers.
Secondly, casual gamers have just as much to gain from MMOs than the elite "geeks". Before MMOs, we were all just stuck in front of our TV (or computer) screens, in typical geek mode, waiting for the credits to roll before letting that particular game collect dust (until we remember it again). With the advent of MMOs, we are taken out of that mode. Not only can we beat the tar out of monsters, but now we can take down mobs we wouldn't be able to solo or take out each other in high competition mode. We don't see rolling credits at the end of the game, because there's always something more to do.
I have great respect for the elite gamers that truly champion the game. You are the ones that people look up to, to take leadership positions (in groups, raids, and/or guilds). If I were that kind of player, I would relish in the glory and not lose faith in the lack of expertise by the casual players, because they contribute to the gaming experience too (whether it be positive or negative).
And it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest.
What do I see on every forum for every new mmo that gets announsced? "I only have an hour to play and I want what the guy who has 10 hours to play has since I pay the same money.".
Casual players for the most part do not, and will not, accept that a game can be made NOT FOR THEM. Instead, they demand the game be fitted and changed FOR THEM. And because the devs see all that "casual" money floating out there, they oblige.
So whether I sound fair to you or not, my point still stands. There won't be any good games like our old games until either the casuals pick up their ball and go home, or devs make games for the pleasure of making games like they used to; with profit being a pleasing side effect rather than the sole driving force.
I pretty much agree but you lost me there at the end. In the real world its all about the money. Try going to your bank and telling them you want to borrow money for project X and tell them it wont make any money but it would be fun.
Why wouldn't it make any money? Oh, that's right. Because a game is only successful with millions of subs rather than a couple hundred thousand.
And that's not a jab at you but at the moronic devs who believe that crap. Even Darkfall, as much of a failure as it was known to be long before it released, managed to get funding.
Why wouldn't it make any money? Oh, that's right. Because a game is only successful with millions of subs rather than a couple hundred thousand.
And that's not a jab at you but at the moronic devs who believe that crap. Even Darkfall, as much of a failure as it was known to be long before it released, managed to get funding.
few hundred thousand would be fine but the developers are aiming to get millions of players that get to the end pretty fast and clear the content in few months, which would require a constant stream of new players to join in to replace those who quit before... But if that doesn't happen the few kk isn't enough anymore, for short time yes but not for long.
Using LOL is like saying "my argument sucks but I still want to disagree".
Comments
Im amazed that you played WoW for 3 years, firstly. Mmorpg.com doesnt suck, but their proclivity to give every asian whack-a-mole game validity is a testiment to their sell-out on the mmorpg genre I think. Mmorpg players dont suck, but their expectation that they can live a virtual fantasy life to gain fulfillment while neglecting real-life is a sign of their delusional state, perhaps.
These are games, not intended to be virtual long-term endeavors with the way the vast majority are designed, liked WoW, whereby the game-play is overly redundent and static. They are another form of entertainment, like a book or movie, or taking part in a ball game.
I personally dont see how anyone can, and can expect to, gain anymore than 4-6 months of continued entertainment out of one, yes one, title. There are many types of personalities that play mmorpg's and I happen to gain my entertainment value out of each one I play, including WoW for 6 months, CoH for about 4, EVE for a few months, AoC for a few, PotBS for about 4 months, WAR for about 4, Atlantica Online for about 6, and the list goes on. If I pay about $50 for the box and $15 a month, then towards 4-6month play-time, that comes out to about $1 a day for entertainment value. Thats all I expect and look for.
Every game has it'sown unique twist and additive to the genre, except the afformentioned Asian window-dressing change, whack-a-mole impersonations of most other Asian mind-numbing games.
So, my impression is that mmorpg's seem to suck if I continuously play the same one repeatedly for more than 6 months, but my opinion is that there isn't one that is designed as a virtual reality that is worth any more time than that, and thats fine, as I said. Fine, since I've always gotten the entertainment value out of every tittle I've played.
Now onto Aion, and then Champions Online. /shrug Perhaps you and others should find another form of entertainment.
Im amazed that you played WoW for 3 years, firstly. Mmorpg.com doesnt suck, but their proclivity to give every asian whack-a-mole game validity is a testiment to their sell-out on the mmorpg genre I think. Mmorpg players dont suck, but their expectation that they can live a virtual fantasy life to gain fulfillment while neglecting real-life is a sign of their delusional state, perhaps.
These are games, not intended to be virtual long-term endeavors with the way the vast majority are designed, liked WoW, whereby the game-play is overly redundent and static. They are another form of entertainment, like a book or movie, or taking part in a ball game.
I personally dont see how anyone can, and can expect to, gain anymore than 4-6 months of continued entertainment out of one, yes one, title. There are many types of personalities that play mmorpg's and I happen to gain my entertainment value out of each one I play, including WoW for 6 months, CoH for about 4, EVE for a few months, AoC for a few, PotBS for about 4 months, WAR for about 4, Atlantica Online for about 6, and the list goes on. If I pay about $50 for the box and $15 a month, then towards 4-6month play-time, that comes out to about $1 a day for entertainment value. Thats all I expect and look for.
Every game has it'sown unique twist and additive to the genre, except the afformentioned Asian window-dressing change, whack-a-mole impersonations of most other Asian mind-numbing games.
So, my impression is that mmorpg's seem to suck if I continuously play the same one repeatedly for more than 6 months, but my opinion is that there isn't one that is designed as a virtual reality that is worth any more time than that, and thats fine, as I said. Fine, since I've always gotten the entertainment value out of every tittle I've played.
Now onto Aion, and then Champions Online. /shrug Perhaps you and others should find another form of entertainment.
Never once said MMORPG.com sucked. I stopped reading after the first paragraph because of your attitude, which beleive it or not, looks worse than mine. Also, your casual as hell. Your saying you spend 4 mounths on an MMO and then move on? Also, calling everyone here delusional because of the choice to play MMO's isn't very nice.
Edit: I gave it another shot at reading. Your saying that MMO's aren't ment to be long term? Can you explain why, after many years of being on the market, Blizzard continues to patch WoW and make expansions? ;/
Originally posted by --Name edited out--
EX-PRO PLAYER IN WOW HERE.THIS GAME IS GOOD! TRUST ME IM USED TO BE THE BEST IN WOW BUT JUST A N00B IN AION. ITS CHALLENGEING , TRY IT!
[Sigh, watch out guys, this dude's pro.]
MMORPG.COM thinks everything is AWESOME, gets fat checks from game companies for placing hundreds of adds and writes biased reviews about Aion sucking up to everyone they can and banning everyone with another opinion labeling them as a troll.
The community is the opposite.
At least make the distinction.
Also, Aion is worse than Transformers 2.
Haha, you hit the nail on the proverbial head. Mmorpg.com community is like that. Either a rabid fanboy and an extreme hater, the latter the majority though. There are a few reasonable people around here, but they drown in the fanboy/hate wars.
Like wow, you're a casual nobody and noone like you, live in your basement, follow the crowd etc. Like Lotr, you're a casual nobody who like pretty gfx. Like FFXI, you're a wapanese(wannabe japanese). Like D&DO, omg they don't use D20, diz game sux and so on...
My hate game is Eve Online. I troll em now and then
Been a while now though.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
MMORPG.COM thinks everything is AWESOME, gets fat checks from game companies for placing hundreds of adds and writes biased reviews about Aion sucking up to everyone they can and banning everyone with another opinion labeling them as a troll.
The community is the opposite.
At least make the distinction.
Also, Aion is worse than Transformers 2.
...
Transformers 2 is the best film I've ever seen. o.o
Originally posted by --Name edited out--
EX-PRO PLAYER IN WOW HERE.THIS GAME IS GOOD! TRUST ME IM USED TO BE THE BEST IN WOW BUT JUST A N00B IN AION. ITS CHALLENGEING , TRY IT!
[Sigh, watch out guys, this dude's pro.]
Less than a year sounds awfully short time for an MMO, IMO. A good MMO should keep you occupied for years at least. Maybe it's an outdated mindset, I'm not sure. Most companies do not think this way, from what I've noticed. They try to gather as many players as possible that don't play for longer than half a year, instead of trying to get a stable playerbase that stays loyal to the game for as long as possible. It's not wrong approach, I myself just prefer the latter.
Less than a year sounds awfully short time for an MMO, IMO. A good MMO should keep you occupied for years at least. Maybe it's an outdated mindset, I'm not sure. Most companies do not think this way, from what I've noticed. They try to gather as many players as possible that don't play for longer than half a year, instead of trying to get a stable playerbase that stays loyal to the game for as long as possible. It's not wrong approach, I myself just prefer the latter.
Same here. I'd love to have a game again that kept me interested for more than a year with a combination of content and having a group of friends to explore it with. Well, I have the friends, just need the type of game I'm looking for. We played for years in UO, AC and SWG.
I don't see why anyone would want to just hop around MMOs every few months. ADD, maybe? A fear that they'll be "missing" something if they don't play everything, possibly? Who knows? Either way it's their game time and how they play concerns me only if that mentality permeates into the design process of MMOs. Which, it seemingly has.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Problem is that you are looking for the next BIG THING...
I think there is a real opportunity for Boutique style MMO's to enter the market place... Instead of trying to be the next WOW... New MMO's should narrow their target audience and make something that is truely original in concept. Focus on the experience and not the bells and whistles. And who cares if it doesnt get a million subcribers.
Ah, I agree with this. I don't like how -some- MMO's want to please every group of players.. it just waters down the experience. Make one aspect as good as possible and lure in a group of players that prefer that kind of gamestyle. It prolly won't be as successful as WoW, but I'm sure you could gather at least few million+ subscribers like that, easily.
Hm, your right. I guess I didn't really mean the next big thing. Rather just something that keeps a new MMO fresh and interesting. Aion has some good reviews but people say it's WoW in better graphics, not sure about Swtor either.
Originally posted by --Name edited out--
EX-PRO PLAYER IN WOW HERE.THIS GAME IS GOOD! TRUST ME IM USED TO BE THE BEST IN WOW BUT JUST A N00B IN AION. ITS CHALLENGEING , TRY IT!
[Sigh, watch out guys, this dude's pro.]
No I'm saying that if you enjoyed it enough to keep playing it for 3 years that you probably enjoy the more casual type of game. The type of game where leveling is fast and easy, dying doesn't effect much, and you are directed to the quests and directed through the quests. A game that combat is, hit 2 4 1 5 3 2 6.
I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, just stating that if you do enjoy that type of game there are plenty others on the market right now that you might want to try. LotRO has a lot of this same feel but a much different experience.
No I'm saying that if you enjoyed it enough to keep playing it for 3 years that you probably enjoy the more casual type of game. The type of game where leveling is fast and easy, dying doesn't effect much, and you are directed to the quests and directed through the quests. A game that combat is, hit 2 4 1 5 3 2 6.
I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, just stating that if you do enjoy that type of game there are plenty others on the market right now that you might want to try. LotRO has a lot of this same feel but a much different experience.
I get you now.
Originally posted by --Name edited out--
EX-PRO PLAYER IN WOW HERE.THIS GAME IS GOOD! TRUST ME IM USED TO BE THE BEST IN WOW BUT JUST A N00B IN AION. ITS CHALLENGEING , TRY IT!
[Sigh, watch out guys, this dude's pro.]
Actually, according to MMORPG.com, which I shall roughly define as staff writers and members, everything has pros and cons; it's just the negatives get stressed a lot more, thus leaving the impression that everything sucks.
People have high expectation of games. Gamers are also looking for different aspects of gameplay. I don't think it's fair on the part of the developers to be able to satisfy everyone's needs with one game.
To find a game that suits you, will just play the game and see if it attracts you. If not, there are hundreds of games listed on this site alone.
The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
One persons drink is another persons poison.
Your never going to find a thread here where everyone agrees to either like or dislike an MMO, we all have very different opinions.
Once you ignore the rabid haters or the Fanboi's your then going to find a decent mix of views and opinions, ofc your going to have to wade thru a mire of dross first to get to them but they are out there I can assure you.
Knowing noone wants to read a five-paragraph long post, I'm gonna leave this plain and simple. Not like I could write that much right now anyways.
I think the community here at MMORPG.com have been hurt and let down by previous MMOs and their expectations to the point that the first reaction to any new game and/or experience would be that of skepticism/criticism. Many people here have been around for longer than you'd expect, and have had their share of failed expectations. After a while people get calloused, though that's not necessarily a bad thing. As for the opposite end of the hype-spectrum, the "fanbois" haven't been here long enough to understand what the others have been through with their favorite genre. Again, not a bad thing.
People lose hope, and when they do, it's hard to gain it back, for better or for worse.
#K
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
Originally posted by --Name edited out--
EX-PRO PLAYER IN WOW HERE.THIS GAME IS GOOD! TRUST ME IM USED TO BE THE BEST IN WOW BUT JUST A N00B IN AION. ITS CHALLENGEING , TRY IT!
[Sigh, watch out guys, this dude's pro.]
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
There honestly isn't a "great" game out atm.
WOW was great but after 2 or 3 years, I just got tired of the game. Nothing wrong with that if a game can hold my interest for 2 or 3 years it did a damn good job and was a "great" game for me. But it's just old, would you rather play Madden '05 or '10.
The last three major games, LOTR, WAR & AOC just didn't hold my interest for more than a couple months.
The only other game that has held my interst for years other than WOW was SWG (pre-cu & and cu was playable). SWG had many many flaws and really wasn't that polished, comparitatively to WOW, but the things SWG did good they did them great.
I'm really looking forward to TOR, because I have loved Bioware's RPGs in the past. It may not be the type of game that goes and goes but I'm 99% sure I will have a blast in the game for up to half a year, no one does storytelling like Bioware and that and all the classes will hold my interest for at least that long, after that who knows.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
That's not fair... to anyone.
Look, game trademark depends on demand of the market. Without this "commercialization", there would not be such variety in the MMO industry that we see today. Of course, there wouldn't be many games that have the same feel or look either, but that's besides the point. I prefer to see variety, and more importantly, competition. It challenges developers to step up and marketers to focus on players. In that aspect, power to the gamers.
Secondly, casual gamers have just as much to gain from MMOs than the elite "geeks". Before MMOs, we were all just stuck in front of our TV (or computer) screens, in typical geek mode, waiting for the credits to roll before letting that particular game collect dust (until we remember it again). With the advent of MMOs, we are taken out of that mode. Not only can we beat the tar out of monsters, but now we can take down mobs we wouldn't be able to solo or take out each other in high competition mode. We don't see rolling credits at the end of the game, because there's always something more to do.
I have great respect for the elite gamers that truly champion the game. You are the ones that people look up to, to take leadership positions (in groups, raids, and/or guilds). If I were that kind of player, I would relish in the glory and not lose faith in the lack of expertise by the casual players, because they contribute to the gaming experience too (whether it be positive or negative).
The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
So if you dont like games like EQ/SWG/UO, gtfo and go play single player games on consoles?
That's pretty harsh, I must say. WoW may have dumbed down some features in other MMOs before it, but it made it wayy easier to get into it. Therefore, more money, and you would hope, better games to come. Not all casual players can get full arena armor/best tier gear before the next raid/expansion/arena season.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
That's not fair... to anyone.
Look, game trademark depends on demand of the market. Without this "commercialization", there would not be such variety in the MMO industry that we see today. Of course, there wouldn't be many games that have the same feel or look either, but that's besides the point. I prefer to see variety, and more importantly, competition. It challenges developers to step up and marketers to focus on players. In that aspect, power to the gamers.
Secondly, casual gamers have just as much to gain from MMOs than the elite "geeks". Before MMOs, we were all just stuck in front of our TV (or computer) screens, in typical geek mode, waiting for the credits to roll before letting that particular game collect dust (until we remember it again). With the advent of MMOs, we are taken out of that mode. Not only can we beat the tar out of monsters, but now we can take down mobs we wouldn't be able to solo or take out each other in high competition mode. We don't see rolling credits at the end of the game, because there's always something more to do.
I have great respect for the elite gamers that truly champion the game. You are the ones that people look up to, to take leadership positions (in groups, raids, and/or guilds). If I were that kind of player, I would relish in the glory and not lose faith in the lack of expertise by the casual players, because they contribute to the gaming experience too (whether it be positive or negative).
And it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest.
What do I see on every forum for every new mmo that gets announsced? "I only have an hour to play and I want what the guy who has 10 hours to play has since I pay the same money.".
Casual players for the most part do not, and will not, accept that a game can be made NOT FOR THEM. Instead, they demand the game be fitted and changed FOR THEM. And because the devs see all that "casual" money floating out there, they oblige.
So whether I sound fair to you or not, my point still stands. There won't be any good games like our old games until either the casuals pick up their ball and go home, or devs make games for the pleasure of making games like they used to; with profit being a pleasing side effect rather than the sole driving force.
I'd even settle for a niche game made by indy devs solely for us "old timers". Unfortunately, so far we only got a SOE abortion named Vanguard and an assinine failure made by idiots named Darkfall.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
That's not fair... to anyone.
Look, game trademark depends on demand of the market. Without this "commercialization", there would not be such variety in the MMO industry that we see today. Of course, there wouldn't be many games that have the same feel or look either, but that's besides the point. I prefer to see variety, and more importantly, competition. It challenges developers to step up and marketers to focus on players. In that aspect, power to the gamers.
Secondly, casual gamers have just as much to gain from MMOs than the elite "geeks". Before MMOs, we were all just stuck in front of our TV (or computer) screens, in typical geek mode, waiting for the credits to roll before letting that particular game collect dust (until we remember it again). With the advent of MMOs, we are taken out of that mode. Not only can we beat the tar out of monsters, but now we can take down mobs we wouldn't be able to solo or take out each other in high competition mode. We don't see rolling credits at the end of the game, because there's always something more to do.
I have great respect for the elite gamers that truly champion the game. You are the ones that people look up to, to take leadership positions (in groups, raids, and/or guilds). If I were that kind of player, I would relish in the glory and not lose faith in the lack of expertise by the casual players, because they contribute to the gaming experience too (whether it be positive or negative).
And it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest.
What do I see on every forum for every new mmo that gets announsced? "I only have an hour to play and I want what the guy who has 10 hours to play has since I pay the same money.".
Casual players for the most part do not, and will not, accept that a game can be made NOT FOR THEM. Instead, they demand the game be fitted and changed FOR THEM. And because the devs see all that "casual" money floating out there, they oblige.
So whether I sound fair to you or not, my point still stands. There won't be any good games like our old games until either the casuals pick up their ball and go home, or devs make games for the pleasure of making games like they used to; with profit being a pleasing side effect rather than the sole driving force.
I pretty much agree but you lost me there at the end. In the real world its all about the money. Try going to your bank and telling them you want to borrow money for project X and tell them it wont make any money but it would be fun.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
That's not fair... to anyone.
Look, game trademark depends on demand of the market. Without this "commercialization", there would not be such variety in the MMO industry that we see today. Of course, there wouldn't be many games that have the same feel or look either, but that's besides the point. I prefer to see variety, and more importantly, competition. It challenges developers to step up and marketers to focus on players. In that aspect, power to the gamers.
Secondly, casual gamers have just as much to gain from MMOs than the elite "geeks". Before MMOs, we were all just stuck in front of our TV (or computer) screens, in typical geek mode, waiting for the credits to roll before letting that particular game collect dust (until we remember it again). With the advent of MMOs, we are taken out of that mode. Not only can we beat the tar out of monsters, but now we can take down mobs we wouldn't be able to solo or take out each other in high competition mode. We don't see rolling credits at the end of the game, because there's always something more to do.
I have great respect for the elite gamers that truly champion the game. You are the ones that people look up to, to take leadership positions (in groups, raids, and/or guilds). If I were that kind of player, I would relish in the glory and not lose faith in the lack of expertise by the casual players, because they contribute to the gaming experience too (whether it be positive or negative).
And it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest.
What do I see on every forum for every new mmo that gets announsced? "I only have an hour to play and I want what the guy who has 10 hours to play has since I pay the same money.".
Casual players for the most part do not, and will not, accept that a game can be made NOT FOR THEM. Instead, they demand the game be fitted and changed FOR THEM. And because the devs see all that "casual" money floating out there, they oblige.
So whether I sound fair to you or not, my point still stands. There won't be any good games like our old games until either the casuals pick up their ball and go home, or devs make games for the pleasure of making games like they used to; with profit being a pleasing side effect rather than the sole driving force.
I pretty much agree but you lost me there at the end. In the real world its all about the money. Try going to your bank and telling them you want to borrow money for project X and tell them it wont make any money but it would be fun.
Why wouldn't it make any money? Oh, that's right. Because a game is only successful with millions of subs rather than a couple hundred thousand.
And that's not a jab at you but at the moronic devs who believe that crap. Even Darkfall, as much of a failure as it was known to be long before it released, managed to get funding.
few hundred thousand would be fine but the developers are aiming to get millions of players that get to the end pretty fast and clear the content in few months, which would require a constant stream of new players to join in to replace those who quit before... But if that doesn't happen the few kk isn't enough anymore, for short time yes but not for long.