Wow, I'm amazed at the number of replies this has received.
Just a few things I would like to say. (Well it turned out to be more than I expected)
1. Pre-ordering from a real store such as Gamestop or Best Buy does not lock you into anything. Even though you have received your beta key you can still cancel the pre-order as long as you do not purchase and open the retail game. I have returned many pre-orders at Best Buy.
2. Ordering from the NCSoft store warns you that you are purchasing the retail game and that it is non-refundable (which has already been stated here numerous times). There could be many reasons that you can not get your money back. It is not as simple as a lot of you think to "return" an online purchase once the product key has already been applied to your account. It would basically requre a database admin to find the person's NCSoft account across multiple databases and delete all traces of their product key and then somehow blacklist that key from being used again to register the game.
That's working off of the assumption that their user account, purchase, and game-key databases are even accessible to the level required to perform such an action. Which I doubt is the case.
The only other alternative would be to ban the OP's Aion account. But I'm not sure that NCSoft would do this either considering the OP accepted a non-refundable purchase agreement.
3. It amazes me that people are so quick to say the OP should get his money back. He agreed to a non-refundable purchase, and that's what he got. Consider it one of life's lessons and move on. End of story.
Oh, I would also not recommend trying to do a charge-back when the consumer is in the wrong. If the business challenges it (all they would have to do is produce the order information that shows it was non-refundable) then the consumer, in this case, would liable for fraud charges if NCSoft wanted to go that far and at the very least it would be a bad mark on the OP's credit card. Depending on who handles the case at the credit card company they may cancel the credit card and that would be a huge blemish on that person's credit score.
At that point it wouldn't show up as a closed card but I believe the term would be terminated. Basically you could not get another credit card or most likely any other loans for at least 3 years, if not longer.
I would not take that chance.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Originally posted by MustaphaMond And that was his choice to pay full price. It was very clear about what he was getting when he did it, and if he didn't understand that, it's because he didn't read what he was buying. THAT is the only relevant issue here. He chose to buy the entire game at the time of purchase. HE chose that. NCSoft did not trick him. The webpage where he bought the game clearly said "PREPURCHASE" and that it was NON-REFUNDABLE. He won't get his money back because he consciously agreed to hand it over WITH CLEAR CONDITIONS AND EXPECTATIONS that refunds were NOT possible.
I have to agree with Mustapha here. NC did nothing shady, it clearly says "prepurchase." In the future, order from places like Gamestop so that even if you never go and pick up your game when it's released, the most that they might charge you is $5 for a restocking fee. But they wont charge you for the full price of a game when you preorder unless you physically go to the store and buy it.
Guess i feel its a little shady that they are selling a full version of the game but you arent really getting the full version until Sept. I guess i just personally think its dirty to sell something and not refund when you havent yet provided what your selling. What i mean is they are selling the full play all day all night if you want version of the game. Which you cant you can play limited beta events. Now if you havent yet received the full version you purchase hasnt happened yet. you havent received the goods. so technically he hasent purchased anything just the comitment to buy it when it does come out. I personally dont like this way companies do buisness you should be able to cancel somethign you havent yet received
They do it because too many people "pre-order" a game just to test it and cancel it later on. Not only does this cause a large number of miss-calculations in sales and perceived shipping numbers but is also exploiting a system in place for people that actually want to play the game.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
Originally posted by MustaphaMond And that was his choice to pay full price. It was very clear about what he was getting when he did it, and if he didn't understand that, it's because he didn't read what he was buying. THAT is the only relevant issue here. He chose to buy the entire game at the time of purchase. HE chose that. NCSoft did not trick him. The webpage where he bought the game clearly said "PREPURCHASE" and that it was NON-REFUNDABLE. He won't get his money back because he consciously agreed to hand it over WITH CLEAR CONDITIONS AND EXPECTATIONS that refunds were NOT possible.
I have to agree with Mustapha here. NC did nothing shady, it clearly says "prepurchase." In the future, order from places like Gamestop so that even if you never go and pick up your game when it's released, the most that they might charge you is $5 for a restocking fee. But they wont charge you for the full price of a game when you preorder unless you physically go to the store and buy it.
Guess i feel its a little shady that they are selling a full version of the game but you arent really getting the full version until Sept. I guess i just personally think its dirty to sell something and not refund when you havent yet provided what your selling. What i mean is they are selling the full play all day all night if you want version of the game. Which you cant you can play limited beta events. Now if you havent yet received the full version you purchase hasnt happened yet. you havent received the goods. so technically he hasent purchased anything just the comitment to buy it when it does come out. I personally dont like this way companies do buisness you should be able to cancel somethign you havent yet received
No shady would be doing this and then putting their disclaimer at the bottom of a very long page you have to scroll through to find.
They put a very noticeable disclaimer on the payment option page that says you WILL NOT GET A REFUND. You don't have to scroll down at ALL. It's right there, in front of your eyes, they even italicize the entire thing and bold the DISCLAIMER part of it. It isn't shady, they didn't trick you, you chose not to read something right in front of your face.
This is exactly like complaining that you fell into a ditch when two hundred yards back there was a sign that said, "Warning: Ditch Ahead!" Seriously, just stop. It's not NCsoft's fault, it's yours, take some responasability for your actions.
Originally posted by MustaphaMond And that was his choice to pay full price. It was very clear about what he was getting when he did it, and if he didn't understand that, it's because he didn't read what he was buying. THAT is the only relevant issue here. He chose to buy the entire game at the time of purchase. HE chose that. NCSoft did not trick him. The webpage where he bought the game clearly said "PREPURCHASE" and that it was NON-REFUNDABLE. He won't get his money back because he consciously agreed to hand it over WITH CLEAR CONDITIONS AND EXPECTATIONS that refunds were NOT possible.
I have to agree with Mustapha here. NC did nothing shady, it clearly says "prepurchase." In the future, order from places like Gamestop so that even if you never go and pick up your game when it's released, the most that they might charge you is $5 for a restocking fee. But they wont charge you for the full price of a game when you preorder unless you physically go to the store and buy it.
Guess i feel its a little shady that they are selling a full version of the game but you arent really getting the full version until Sept. I guess i just personally think its dirty to sell something and not refund when you havent yet provided what your selling. What i mean is they are selling the full play all day all night if you want version of the game. Which you cant you can play limited beta events. Now if you havent yet received the full version you purchase hasnt happened yet. you havent received the goods. so technically he hasent purchased anything just the comitment to buy it when it does come out. I personally dont like this way companies do buisness you should be able to cancel somethign you havent yet received
No shady would be doing this and then putting their disclaimer at the bottom of a very long page you have to scroll through to find.
They put a very noticeable disclaimer on the payment option page that says you WILL NOT GET A REFUND. You don't have to scroll down at ALL. It's right there, in front of your eyes, they even italicize the entire thing and bold the DISCLAIMER part of it. It isn't shady, they didn't trick you, you chose not to read something right in front of your face.
This is exactly like complaining that you fell into a ditch when two hundred yards back there was a sign that said, "Warning: Ditch Ahead!" Seriously, just stop. It's not NCsoft's fault, it's yours, take some responasability for your actions.
Well for starters i pre ordered my game from EB canceled with no issues. So i have no actions to take resposibility for. Is what NCSOFT did legit and legal sure it is im just saying i dont think its a nice way to do buisness. Selling something with no refund that your not actually providing yet.
Does it say that PVP will be done in that territory? Nope. I can venture into "enemy territory" in DAOC, WOW, LOTRO, WAR, AOC, etc.... and not have to PVP while trying to PVE. Does it say I will be attacked by the enemy in my territory while I am out leveling? Nope. I am just saying its not clear and that is clearly evident by the number of people posting about it. A LOT of people didn't fully realize what it meant until some players on the Chinese client posted about it. And since a lot of people have canceled their orders for the game. As a matter of fact, my guild has a large thread going about it as well and many are canceling because of it. And the guild is one of the largest in MMO's and has chapters in many, many games.
Click buy on Aion. Log-in if you aren't already. ON THE SCREEN WHERE YOU CHOOSE YOUR PAYMENT METHOD IN ITALICIZED LETTERS DIRECTLY BELOW THE PAYPAL BUTTON IT SAYS: DISCLAIMER: GAME-CODES AND PURCHASES ARE NON-RETURNABLE AND NON-REFUNDABLE.
Why would your guild start some crusade over this? Because they are too stupid to notice an OBVIOUS dislcaimer? You DON'T have to scroll down to see it. It's right in front of your freaking eyes! It's before you even enter in any payment info!
So what? You're blaming NCsoft because you're too lazy or stupid or something? This is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Please tell me none of you have children. -_-
Thanks for the attack. I was talking about the use of Rifts in PVP. We were discussing the fact that no where does the website state what Rifts will be used for and its unclear that what being in enemy territory means and NOT the non-refundable business.
Read the quoted posts next time please before you decide to verbally attack me.
Meh, my fault. Sorry ^_^. Post stands anyway to other people.
Either way, so what? It's not like it's that big of a deal. So you figure out something and waste -maybe- 10 minutes figuring it out. Oh noes!!!!! Seriouslah, not a big deal. Certainly not big enough to go on some crusade.
Game itself is fine. If something is unclear to you about a game why would you pre-order it before checking a fansite? Laziness at work. Twenty minutes on a forum to save hours of aggrivation....hmmmm.....worth it to me.
I've explained about the pre-orders more than I really wanted to. Sorry, I get worked up when people blame others for their own stupidity.
This is just a classic case of someone trying to say that the rules should not apply to them for whatever reason. I work for a company that does a lot of online sales and despite the clear listing of our policies including a no refund policy there are always people that try to get around it. One of their classic replies is that they will just dispute the charge. When someone disputes a charge they may get their money if we have not finalized our audit. They may also win the chargeback which means we take a loss. In either case the card number and all associated information is flagged and we will no longer accept any orders from them in the future.
And to the OP. You are in the BETA! You are not playing the completed game. You paid for early access to try out/evaluate bugs/provide feedback. It's very possible the final experience could be a lot different. You already paid for the damn thing. Just try it out for your first free month and if you don't like it then maybe you'll think about it next time you purchase a game without trying it first. Here's your sign............
Does it say that PVP will be done in that territory? Nope. I can venture into "enemy territory" in DAOC, WOW, LOTRO, WAR, AOC, etc.... and not have to PVP while trying to PVE. Does it say I will be attacked by the enemy in my territory while I am out leveling? Nope. I am just saying its not clear and that is clearly evident by the number of people posting about it. A LOT of people didn't fully realize what it meant until some players on the Chinese client posted about it. And since a lot of people have canceled their orders for the game. As a matter of fact, my guild has a large thread going about it as well and many are canceling because of it. And the guild is one of the largest in MMO's and has chapters in many, many games.
Click buy on Aion. Log-in if you aren't already. ON THE SCREEN WHERE YOU CHOOSE YOUR PAYMENT METHOD IN ITALICIZED LETTERS DIRECTLY BELOW THE PAYPAL BUTTON IT SAYS: DISCLAIMER: GAME-CODES AND PURCHASES ARE NON-RETURNABLE AND NON-REFUNDABLE.
Why would your guild start some crusade over this? Because they are too stupid to notice an OBVIOUS dislcaimer? You DON'T have to scroll down to see it. It's right in front of your freaking eyes! It's before you even enter in any payment info!
So what? You're blaming NCsoft because you're too lazy or stupid or something? This is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Please tell me none of you have children. -_-
Thanks for the attack. I was talking about the use of Rifts in PVP. We were discussing the fact that no where does the website state what Rifts will be used for and its unclear that what being in enemy territory means and NOT the non-refundable business.
Read the quoted posts next time please before you decide to verbally attack me.
Meh, my fault. Sorry ^_^. Post stands anyway to other people.
Either way, so what? It's not like it's that big of a deal. So you figure out something and waste -maybe- 10 minutes figuring it out. Oh noes!!!!! Seriouslah, not a big deal. Certainly not big enough to go on some crusade.
Actually it is. Read my other posts if you want. There is a major point here and its that NCSoft is NOT clear about the Rift system and the extent that PVP is implemented on their website. Most people, like myself, thought PVP was confined to the Abyss like the RVR system in DAOC.
It isn't. The game is not what we thought it would be, therefore we have the right to cancel. Read posts 87, 88 and 89 for more clarification.
Really? Because when I read the description of the Abyss for the first time that is NOT what I thought. I even thought to myself, "Hmmm, sweet, so we have this big 'ol PvP area in addition to other stuff."
That's where the confusion in this entire post is coming from. I dunno, maybe my brain works differently than "most people". In fact, my entire clan (Havoc from Lineage 2 Sieghardt if anyone remembers us) thought the same thing. So that's about 15 or so people including myself who weren't confused. So....again, I'm not seeing the conflict here. If any of you guys had gone to Aionsource and asked on the forums before any of you pre-ordered you would have known.
Game's been out in Korea since december and China for nearly as long. Tons of people on Aionsource are either in Korea or China or played/are playing on those servers. They could have answered your guys' questions months ago, waaaaaay before pre-orders for us even opened.
I guess that's another difference between myself and my clan and "most people". If we aren't clear on a feature of a game then we go ask people before spending money on it. The information has been out there for months, any one of your dozens of guild members could have spent 15 minutes finding it and saved yourselves all this time and aggrivation.
Originally posted by MustaphaMond And that was his choice to pay full price. It was very clear about what he was getting when he did it, and if he didn't understand that, it's because he didn't read what he was buying. THAT is the only relevant issue here. He chose to buy the entire game at the time of purchase. HE chose that. NCSoft did not trick him. The webpage where he bought the game clearly said "PREPURCHASE" and that it was NON-REFUNDABLE. He won't get his money back because he consciously agreed to hand it over WITH CLEAR CONDITIONS AND EXPECTATIONS that refunds were NOT possible.
I have to agree with Mustapha here. NC did nothing shady, it clearly says "prepurchase." In the future, order from places like Gamestop so that even if you never go and pick up your game when it's released, the most that they might charge you is $5 for a restocking fee. But they wont charge you for the full price of a game when you preorder unless you physically go to the store and buy it.
Guess i feel its a little shady that they are selling a full version of the game but you arent really getting the full version until Sept. I guess i just personally think its dirty to sell something and not refund when you havent yet provided what your selling. What i mean is they are selling the full play all day all night if you want version of the game. Which you cant you can play limited beta events. Now if you havent yet received the full version you purchase hasnt happened yet. you havent received the goods. so technically he hasent purchased anything just the comitment to buy it when it does come out. I personally dont like this way companies do buisness you should be able to cancel somethign you havent yet received
No shady would be doing this and then putting their disclaimer at the bottom of a very long page you have to scroll through to find.
They put a very noticeable disclaimer on the payment option page that says you WILL NOT GET A REFUND. You don't have to scroll down at ALL. It's right there, in front of your eyes, they even italicize the entire thing and bold the DISCLAIMER part of it. It isn't shady, they didn't trick you, you chose not to read something right in front of your face.
This is exactly like complaining that you fell into a ditch when two hundred yards back there was a sign that said, "Warning: Ditch Ahead!" Seriously, just stop. It's not NCsoft's fault, it's yours, take some responasability for your actions.
Well for starters i pre ordered my game from EB canceled with no issues. So i have no actions to take resposibility for. Is what NCSOFT did legit and legal sure it is im just saying i dont think its a nice way to do buisness. Selling something with no refund that your not actually providing yet.
"i dont think its a nice way to do buisness" = wtf?
It's not the only way you can buy the game. If it was, you have a point. But, in reality, nobody is forced to buy from NCSoft using this method and it is very clear if they choose to do so.
Maybe you dislike it, but there are obviously enough people who buy the game this way to make it worthwhile enough for NCSoft to sell it this way. Those who don't like this method of buying it all up front won't buy it that way.
Here's a comparison that works for what is going on in this thread (imo): sit-down restaurant vs. fast-food restaurant.
Your typical sit-down place lets you order, brings your food, and you pay AFTER you eat (this is how most of us are buying the game... we pay $5 for preorder beta access + the rest when it's release time). Fast-food joints = you buy what you want ahead of time and then get the food afterward (which is like NCSoft selling the whole game at once, then the player playing betas/downloading it at release).
Now, take it a step further. You're at the sit-down restaurant and decide you're not satisfied with your meal, the management won't help you out... easiest solution? You refuse to pay (but will probably never get to eat there). Good management would apologize before it got to that point, would give you the meal free, and give you gift certs so you come in again... They'd do whatever it takes to keep you as a customer.
Now, fast-food example... you buy a "#1" value meal, they make it up in a jiffy. You get your food and there's a hair in it. Ugh. Obviously, you show the manager the food and ask for a refund, they almost always give you one (again, knowing happy customers are more valuable than $5 in food). No problem with either example so far.
Okay, but what happens when you are at the fastfood place, you buy your meal, you get it... it's EXACTLY what you ordered and was advertised, but you decide AFTER you've paid and they've made the order that you want a cheeseburger instead of a whole big mac.... And up on the wall, or right by the register where you paid, it says "absolutely no refund! AND THIS MEANS YOU!!!"
The OP is trying to take his value meal back with the lame reason "I just changed my mind," and we're all pointing out that clear sign that says "no refund/all orders final."
I know Mickey D's would give the refund probably no problem, but they are not in the wrong because they make you pay up front for what is not yet ready/made for you to consume. You have a choice to pay up front and you made it by going there to eat. If you don't like paying first before you've even received your product, then eat at the type of establishments that charge you accordingly.
It is not sensible to pass value judgments on companies for how they sell their product when it is clearly explained... and what's more, in this case there are more than one way to pay for the game. OP feels buyer's remorse... he didn't want a big mac after all, and oh-so-sad... the manager is probably going to point at the "NO REFUND" sign, shrug his shoulders, and say "tough luck."
And you still want to fault the business for it's "shady" practice of their choice to have consumers pay up front? Even after it's clear there are other places that serve the same kind of food where you can pay in a way that you'd prefer?
Sum up: Game itself is fine. If something is unclear to you about a game why would you pre-order it before checking a fansite? Laziness at work. Twenty minutes on a forum to save hours of aggrivation....hmmmm.....worth it to me. I've explained about the pre-orders more than I really wanted to. Sorry, I get worked up when people blame others for their own stupidity. ^_^
Are you going to find out every little detail about a game from a fansite? Nope. There will always be details kept under wraps.
This exact issue is going on in the Champion's Online forum. Pre-orders for Champion's Online mention that you get "5 Cryptic bucks" with your pre-order.
Sounds like RMT to me. But NOBODY knows what it is or even the details of it AT ALL. Nothing. So we are all left guessing and until Cryptic releases the info about it, all we can do is guess.
However they are taking pre-orders for Champions Online.
Same situation, just a different issue.
No, it's NOT the same situation, that's the thing.
Aionsource has had information coming to it since the OB in KOREA started. Aion has been FULLY RELEASED in other countries for over six months now. Champion's Online hasn't been released ANYWHERE so it's a completely different scenario.
Even then, it goes back to something else I said in this thread already. If you think a feature in a game is unclear and can't get clarification then why would you get a non-refundable, full-purchase pre-order for it? You can't use that arguement for Aion because, as I said, it's been fully release in other countries with freely available info on a fansite for months now.
I know you guys are pissed and I -can- empathize, but that doesn't mean I'm going to. Info was out there and your supposedly huge guild CHOSE not to find it.
Nope the confusion comes from the fact I associated the game more with DAOC and you associated it more with Lineage 2. Our experiences are what made you interpret it correctly and me not so much. However, to me, its also an issue with game design and faulty game design at that. Since PVP isn't introduced until later levels and you can experience the first what, 20 levels PVP, free people have YET to experience this in the beta tests. What has happened is that people, like me, who played the first few beta weekends and liked the game, feel betrayed because the game relies more on PVP than we first thought. Maybe its our mistake for not going to some god awful fanboi website and reading up on the game. Shouldn't the official website be enough?
And we're back to the actual problem, not a symptom. I played DAOC, it was my first and favorite MMO. I just happen to have a broader range of experience.
The PROBLEM is that you chose not to go to another source for information. "God awful fanboi website"? Is that really necessary, really? It's a freaking FANSITE....SITE....FAN.....do the math. Clearly you've never even bothered to check it out because there is PLENTY of debate over the game. As long as things are kept civil the mods over there aren't going to close something. If you guys had posted a simple, "Hey, we're not sure what exactly these Rift things are, can anyone help?" you ALL would have known about them MONTHS ago.
Let me throw your question right back at you: Should a website with NO FORUM FOR THE GAME be enough? I can't think of a single game out there where every single feature is explained in every little explicit detail on just a website. That's what forums are for.
Even then are you seriously going to try to use that as a defense? Think about it: "So we have this incomplete information and even though there are these links to other websites with more info we aren't gonna click on em. Those sites are just fanboi websites and we're too leet."
That's how you make yourself and your guild sound, just being honest. Again, the info was out there...FREELY AVAILABLE.....you chose not to click, type a few simple words and get your answers.
Why should I go to another website and look for it? Shouldn't it be on the official website? But see, its a no win situation. You don't care because you knew the info. You cannot and will not empathize with those of us who went to Aion's website and looked for it in detail, but it isn't there. However, if I told you I went to 10 websites, you would tell me I should have gone to 11. if I told you I went to 100, you would tell me I should have gone to 101. No, my guild didn't choose not to find it. We have tons of players in the Chinese version just like a lot of people here played it too. What happened is that, those of you in the Chinese version, ASSUMED everyone knew it and didn't think it mattered. That is what happened.
Wait wait wait wait...whoa....hold on, alright all you're doing is helping my stance here man.
So...wait, you're going to tell me that YOUR GUILD HAD PEOPLE IN THE CHINESE VERSION??
Your -GUILD-....your own -GUILD-....had people....playing the full version.....
How in the HELL did none of you guys who didn't play the chinese version manage to NOT ask your OWN GUILDMATES some SIMPLE questions? Honestly? Really? You are completely blowing my mind right now with how utterly incomprehensable this is.
Maybe your guild needs to downsize or something man. Cause in my clan we talk to each other about games we're interested in. I was the first person in my clan to play the Chinese version and people asked me all sorts of questions. How did you manage not to ask your own guildies these same questions?
As far as websites goes...No, I wouldn't have told you to go to one more. First I would ask, "Did you post your question on a forum?" if you answered "Nope" then I would have first laughed then said that's all you needed to do. Which is exactly what I'm doing right now. I'm not telliny you to google Aion then click on all the websites that pop up, all you needed was to post ONE question on ONE forum....question would have been answered......problem would have been solved.....months ago.
Ah, we are at the root of the issue. You blame the consumer because its easy for you - you are just SO smart and all other consumers are stupid. I blame the company for not having a good enough website. How much info is enough? I go buy a car. I go to Ford's website and buy one and the car has issues. I take it to you (let's say you are the mechanic) and your response would be "You are a moron....why didn't you go to this obscure website and read about this issue". I expect the information to be on a website. I do not expect a consumer to spend any extra time going to various websites LOOKING for the information. I doubly expect major information regarding game design, PVP and the like to be on a website. Take the issue with canceling the order - the non-refundable message is right there on the page where it should be. The information is made readily available. Why can't the information about a major design feature be made readily available too?
Nooooo....your logic is off here.
Ok so you go to a buy a car, you go to the website to look at it's -features-. Ok, it's going to list all of it's features and then a brief little blurb about each feature. It's not going to have a glossary you can browse through that will explain everything in absolute detail.
For example: Car X comes with a fully installed turbo!
Ok, that's the feature blurb you would get on any wesbite, more or less. If you want to find out how that turbo affects engine life, maintenance, performance and what not you're going to HAVE to go to another source.
This is the exact same situation. This isn't even some obscure website, there has been a link to aionsource on the official website nearly since it went up.
Part of the problem is consumer intelligence, sure. I have learned and been taught throughout my life to inform MYSELF about purcahses I make. Whether it be a cell phone, car, mp3 player or what have you. The gaming industry itself warrants consumers informing themselves, especially these days.
Because many of us had already pre-ordered. Remember in Aion PVP isn't an issue until 20+ so the issue HADN'T COME UP. What should I post - "Tell me every design feature in the game from level 1-max"? That is complete and utter BS and you know it. Unless I am aware of an issue why would I post about it? And guess what - when we were made aware of the issue people did post and ask for clarification...it was just too late because many had pre-order with the understanding that PVP was confined to the Abyss.
Wha? When did your guild mates start playing CH version?
I was playing it and up above 20 before pre-orders were even open because I wanted to check the game out. Even then the game features on the website make it fairly obvious that PvP would be a fairly large part of the game. It doesn't take a super secret decoder ring or anything. All it takes is just comprehension of a bigger picture. Ok so PvP features of the game as I recall reading them the first time I read them months ago.
-Fortess battles
-Aerial PvP
-Instanced PvP
-Abyss PvP
-PvPvE
-Killing OTHER PLAYERS TO EARN POINTS FOR GEAR.
That's a lot of different PvP stuff. How were you guys thinking this would only be confined to the Abyss? It doesn't specifically say anywhere on the website that it will be, just as it doesn't say it won't. Re-reading it now I can see how it is unclear, but that should have been unclear to people on their first read. My past experiences established a context in which I placed what I read, so I didn't have any problems. People will fewer experiences probably would have found it vague.
Either way going to one forum and posting one question months ago would have solved this problem. You didn't need to ask about every feature. I -have- seen people ask about just about everything and gotten responses on aionsource, so you could have though. You could have asked about any features you were interested in. I don't know why you wouldn't if it's something you're interested in.
-Most- people like to talk about their interests with other people that share those interests. So it's not like I'm saying anything unusual here.
See the disagreement between persepctives here is that he considers that game flawed in design. The PvP is more of a bug. Like Windows BSOD's. They don't advertise them. You consider the PVP (much as I do) to be the point of the game. I mean it is being billed as a pvp game right? So He just assumed that pvp was optional in a pvp oriented game. Strange, Don't understand this.
To the OP. You've been told this 50 times over, it doesn't matter why you don't like the game. It doesn't matter you don't like how it was advertised on the NCSoft website. What matters is you clicked the pay button when it said non-refundable. Everything else is mute. Consider it a life leasson, never buy a game from the company who designed it. I learned that lesson few years back myself. Just the way it is. If your not sure, order from a real life store, not online. Reason why, $5 at best buy nets you the preorder goodies in a nice package with no making you buy full game. Worst case scenario your out a five spot not the full deal.
As for an MMO, first thing you should do when interested is go to the fansites for the whole story, not doing it is just lazy. NC Soft is not alone in only presenting the most high quality of information and media on their site. All game sites do this. Hell every business does. The fact that you even had Guild members in the Chineese Game means you just didn't take an easy step when it comes to spending your money and ensuring its a good deal for you.
I'm sure you came here to rouse sympothy. Even a way out of paying. I feel for your lose of cash. However what it comes off as a wow fanboi wanting to dis a game that many pvp oriented players are looking forward too. A polished well built fun game designed around pvp and pve in the end game. Not some half arsed game made by a few people in their closet.
Originally posted by MustaphaMond And that was his choice to pay full price. It was very clear about what he was getting when he did it, and if he didn't understand that, it's because he didn't read what he was buying. THAT is the only relevant issue here. He chose to buy the entire game at the time of purchase. HE chose that. NCSoft did not trick him. The webpage where he bought the game clearly said "PREPURCHASE" and that it was NON-REFUNDABLE. He won't get his money back because he consciously agreed to hand it over WITH CLEAR CONDITIONS AND EXPECTATIONS that refunds were NOT possible.
I have to agree with Mustapha here. NC did nothing shady, it clearly says "prepurchase." In the future, order from places like Gamestop so that even if you never go and pick up your game when it's released, the most that they might charge you is $5 for a restocking fee. But they wont charge you for the full price of a game when you preorder unless you physically go to the store and buy it.
Guess i feel its a little shady that they are selling a full version of the game but you arent really getting the full version until Sept. I guess i just personally think its dirty to sell something and not refund when you havent yet provided what your selling. What i mean is they are selling the full play all day all night if you want version of the game. Which you cant you can play limited beta events. Now if you havent yet received the full version you purchase hasnt happened yet. you havent received the goods. so technically he hasent purchased anything just the comitment to buy it when it does come out. I personally dont like this way companies do buisness you should be able to cancel somethign you havent yet received
No shady would be doing this and then putting their disclaimer at the bottom of a very long page you have to scroll through to find.
They put a very noticeable disclaimer on the payment option page that says you WILL NOT GET A REFUND. You don't have to scroll down at ALL. It's right there, in front of your eyes, they even italicize the entire thing and bold the DISCLAIMER part of it. It isn't shady, they didn't trick you, you chose not to read something right in front of your face.
This is exactly like complaining that you fell into a ditch when two hundred yards back there was a sign that said, "Warning: Ditch Ahead!" Seriously, just stop. It's not NCsoft's fault, it's yours, take some responasability for your actions.
Well for starters i pre ordered my game from EB canceled with no issues. So i have no actions to take resposibility for. Is what NCSOFT did legit and legal sure it is im just saying i dont think its a nice way to do buisness. Selling something with no refund that your not actually providing yet.
"i dont think its a nice way to do buisness" = wtf?
It's not the only way you can buy the game. If it was, you have a point. But, in reality, nobody is forced to buy from NCSoft using this method and it is very clear if they choose to do so.
Maybe you dislike it, but there are obviously enough people who buy the game this way to make it worthwhile enough for NCSoft to sell it this way. Those who don't like this method of buying it all up front won't buy it that way.
Here's a comparison that works for what is going on in this thread (imo): sit-down restaurant vs. fast-food restaurant.
Your typical sit-down place lets you order, brings your food, and you pay AFTER you eat (this is how most of us are buying the game... we pay $5 for preorder beta access + the rest when it's release time). Fast-food joints = you buy what you want ahead of time and then get the food afterward (which is like NCSoft selling the whole game at once, then the player playing betas/downloading it at release).
Now, take it a step further. You're at the sit-down restaurant and decide you're not satisfied with your meal, the management won't help you out... easiest solution? You refuse to pay (but will probably never get to eat there). Good management would apologize before it got to that point, would give you the meal free, and give you gift certs so you come in again... They'd do whatever it takes to keep you as a customer.
Now, fast-food example... you buy a "#1" value meal, they make it up in a jiffy. You get your food and there's a hair in it. Ugh. Obviously, you show the manager the food and ask for a refund, they almost always give you one (again, knowing happy customers are more valuable than $5 in food). No problem with either example so far.
Okay, but what happens when you are at the fastfood place, you buy your meal, you get it... it's EXACTLY what you ordered and was advertised, but you decide AFTER you've paid and they've made the order that you want a cheeseburger instead of a whole big mac.... And up on the wall, or right by the register where you paid, it says "absolutely no refund! AND THIS MEANS YOU!!!"
The OP is trying to take his value meal back with the lame reason "I just changed my mind," and we're all pointing out that clear sign that says "no refund/all orders final."
I know Mickey D's would give the refund probably no problem, but they are not in the wrong because they make you pay up front for what is not yet ready/made for you to consume. You have a choice to pay up front and you made it by going there to eat. If you don't like paying first before you've even received your product, then eat at the type of establishments that charge you accordingly.
It is not sensible to pass value judgments on companies for how they sell their product when it is clearly explained... and what's more, in this case there are more than one way to pay for the game. OP feels buyer's remorse... he didn't want a big mac after all, and oh-so-sad... the manager is probably going to point at the "NO REFUND" sign, shrug his shoulders, and say "tough luck."
And you still want to fault the business for it's "shady" practice of their choice to have consumers pay up front? Even after it's clear there are other places that serve the same kind of food where you can pay in a way that you'd prefer?
It's just crazy.
So just to be clear you comparing fast food to software selling software WTF well to use your example try this you order combo number 1 say its the big mac combo burger fries and a drink and what they actually give you is 6 individual fries and say see ya in 2 months for the rest of your order. Than doesnt make sens but ya still pay full price. I agree buyer beware OP had other options. Doesnt excuse the one option being "odd" to me. You should be able to get a refund as long as you dont use the product. In this case the full version of the game.
Comments
Wow, I'm amazed at the number of replies this has received.
Just a few things I would like to say. (Well it turned out to be more than I expected)
1. Pre-ordering from a real store such as Gamestop or Best Buy does not lock you into anything. Even though you have received your beta key you can still cancel the pre-order as long as you do not purchase and open the retail game. I have returned many pre-orders at Best Buy.
2. Ordering from the NCSoft store warns you that you are purchasing the retail game and that it is non-refundable (which has already been stated here numerous times). There could be many reasons that you can not get your money back. It is not as simple as a lot of you think to "return" an online purchase once the product key has already been applied to your account. It would basically requre a database admin to find the person's NCSoft account across multiple databases and delete all traces of their product key and then somehow blacklist that key from being used again to register the game.
That's working off of the assumption that their user account, purchase, and game-key databases are even accessible to the level required to perform such an action. Which I doubt is the case.
The only other alternative would be to ban the OP's Aion account. But I'm not sure that NCSoft would do this either considering the OP accepted a non-refundable purchase agreement.
3. It amazes me that people are so quick to say the OP should get his money back. He agreed to a non-refundable purchase, and that's what he got. Consider it one of life's lessons and move on. End of story.
Oh, I would also not recommend trying to do a charge-back when the consumer is in the wrong. If the business challenges it (all they would have to do is produce the order information that shows it was non-refundable) then the consumer, in this case, would liable for fraud charges if NCSoft wanted to go that far and at the very least it would be a bad mark on the OP's credit card. Depending on who handles the case at the credit card company they may cancel the credit card and that would be a huge blemish on that person's credit score.
At that point it wouldn't show up as a closed card but I believe the term would be terminated. Basically you could not get another credit card or most likely any other loans for at least 3 years, if not longer.
I would not take that chance.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I have to agree with Mustapha here. NC did nothing shady, it clearly says "prepurchase." In the future, order from places like Gamestop so that even if you never go and pick up your game when it's released, the most that they might charge you is $5 for a restocking fee. But they wont charge you for the full price of a game when you preorder unless you physically go to the store and buy it.
Guess i feel its a little shady that they are selling a full version of the game but you arent really getting the full version until Sept. I guess i just personally think its dirty to sell something and not refund when you havent yet provided what your selling. What i mean is they are selling the full play all day all night if you want version of the game. Which you cant you can play limited beta events. Now if you havent yet received the full version you purchase hasnt happened yet. you havent received the goods. so technically he hasent purchased anything just the comitment to buy it when it does come out. I personally dont like this way companies do buisness you should be able to cancel somethign you havent yet received
They do it because too many people "pre-order" a game just to test it and cancel it later on. Not only does this cause a large number of miss-calculations in sales and perceived shipping numbers but is also exploiting a system in place for people that actually want to play the game.
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I have to agree with Mustapha here. NC did nothing shady, it clearly says "prepurchase." In the future, order from places like Gamestop so that even if you never go and pick up your game when it's released, the most that they might charge you is $5 for a restocking fee. But they wont charge you for the full price of a game when you preorder unless you physically go to the store and buy it.
Guess i feel its a little shady that they are selling a full version of the game but you arent really getting the full version until Sept. I guess i just personally think its dirty to sell something and not refund when you havent yet provided what your selling. What i mean is they are selling the full play all day all night if you want version of the game. Which you cant you can play limited beta events. Now if you havent yet received the full version you purchase hasnt happened yet. you havent received the goods. so technically he hasent purchased anything just the comitment to buy it when it does come out. I personally dont like this way companies do buisness you should be able to cancel somethign you havent yet received
No shady would be doing this and then putting their disclaimer at the bottom of a very long page you have to scroll through to find.
They put a very noticeable disclaimer on the payment option page that says you WILL NOT GET A REFUND. You don't have to scroll down at ALL. It's right there, in front of your eyes, they even italicize the entire thing and bold the DISCLAIMER part of it. It isn't shady, they didn't trick you, you chose not to read something right in front of your face.
This is exactly like complaining that you fell into a ditch when two hundred yards back there was a sign that said, "Warning: Ditch Ahead!" Seriously, just stop. It's not NCsoft's fault, it's yours, take some responasability for your actions.
I have to agree with Mustapha here. NC did nothing shady, it clearly says "prepurchase." In the future, order from places like Gamestop so that even if you never go and pick up your game when it's released, the most that they might charge you is $5 for a restocking fee. But they wont charge you for the full price of a game when you preorder unless you physically go to the store and buy it.
Guess i feel its a little shady that they are selling a full version of the game but you arent really getting the full version until Sept. I guess i just personally think its dirty to sell something and not refund when you havent yet provided what your selling. What i mean is they are selling the full play all day all night if you want version of the game. Which you cant you can play limited beta events. Now if you havent yet received the full version you purchase hasnt happened yet. you havent received the goods. so technically he hasent purchased anything just the comitment to buy it when it does come out. I personally dont like this way companies do buisness you should be able to cancel somethign you havent yet received
No shady would be doing this and then putting their disclaimer at the bottom of a very long page you have to scroll through to find.
They put a very noticeable disclaimer on the payment option page that says you WILL NOT GET A REFUND. You don't have to scroll down at ALL. It's right there, in front of your eyes, they even italicize the entire thing and bold the DISCLAIMER part of it. It isn't shady, they didn't trick you, you chose not to read something right in front of your face.
This is exactly like complaining that you fell into a ditch when two hundred yards back there was a sign that said, "Warning: Ditch Ahead!" Seriously, just stop. It's not NCsoft's fault, it's yours, take some responasability for your actions.
Well for starters i pre ordered my game from EB canceled with no issues. So i have no actions to take resposibility for. Is what NCSOFT did legit and legal sure it is im just saying i dont think its a nice way to do buisness. Selling something with no refund that your not actually providing yet.
It is COMPLETELY CLEAR.
Go to: https://secure.ncsoft.com/cgi-bin/Store.pl
Click buy on Aion. Log-in if you aren't already. ON THE SCREEN WHERE YOU CHOOSE YOUR PAYMENT METHOD IN ITALICIZED LETTERS DIRECTLY BELOW THE PAYPAL BUTTON IT SAYS: DISCLAIMER: GAME-CODES AND PURCHASES ARE NON-RETURNABLE AND NON-REFUNDABLE.
Why would your guild start some crusade over this? Because they are too stupid to notice an OBVIOUS dislcaimer? You DON'T have to scroll down to see it. It's right in front of your freaking eyes! It's before you even enter in any payment info!
So what? You're blaming NCsoft because you're too lazy or stupid or something? This is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Please tell me none of you have children. -_-
Thanks for the attack. I was talking about the use of Rifts in PVP. We were discussing the fact that no where does the website state what Rifts will be used for and its unclear that what being in enemy territory means and NOT the non-refundable business.
Read the quoted posts next time please before you decide to verbally attack me.
Meh, my fault. Sorry ^_^. Post stands anyway to other people.
Either way, so what? It's not like it's that big of a deal. So you figure out something and waste -maybe- 10 minutes figuring it out. Oh noes!!!!! Seriouslah, not a big deal. Certainly not big enough to go on some crusade.
Sum up:
Game itself is fine. If something is unclear to you about a game why would you pre-order it before checking a fansite? Laziness at work. Twenty minutes on a forum to save hours of aggrivation....hmmmm.....worth it to me.
I've explained about the pre-orders more than I really wanted to. Sorry, I get worked up when people blame others for their own stupidity.
^_^
This is just a classic case of someone trying to say that the rules should not apply to them for whatever reason. I work for a company that does a lot of online sales and despite the clear listing of our policies including a no refund policy there are always people that try to get around it. One of their classic replies is that they will just dispute the charge. When someone disputes a charge they may get their money if we have not finalized our audit. They may also win the chargeback which means we take a loss. In either case the card number and all associated information is flagged and we will no longer accept any orders from them in the future.
And to the OP. You are in the BETA! You are not playing the completed game. You paid for early access to try out/evaluate bugs/provide feedback. It's very possible the final experience could be a lot different. You already paid for the damn thing. Just try it out for your first free month and if you don't like it then maybe you'll think about it next time you purchase a game without trying it first. Here's your sign............
It is COMPLETELY CLEAR.
Go to: https://secure.ncsoft.com/cgi-bin/Store.pl
Click buy on Aion. Log-in if you aren't already. ON THE SCREEN WHERE YOU CHOOSE YOUR PAYMENT METHOD IN ITALICIZED LETTERS DIRECTLY BELOW THE PAYPAL BUTTON IT SAYS: DISCLAIMER: GAME-CODES AND PURCHASES ARE NON-RETURNABLE AND NON-REFUNDABLE.
Why would your guild start some crusade over this? Because they are too stupid to notice an OBVIOUS dislcaimer? You DON'T have to scroll down to see it. It's right in front of your freaking eyes! It's before you even enter in any payment info!
So what? You're blaming NCsoft because you're too lazy or stupid or something? This is just the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Please tell me none of you have children. -_-
Thanks for the attack. I was talking about the use of Rifts in PVP. We were discussing the fact that no where does the website state what Rifts will be used for and its unclear that what being in enemy territory means and NOT the non-refundable business.
Read the quoted posts next time please before you decide to verbally attack me.
Meh, my fault. Sorry ^_^. Post stands anyway to other people.
Either way, so what? It's not like it's that big of a deal. So you figure out something and waste -maybe- 10 minutes figuring it out. Oh noes!!!!! Seriouslah, not a big deal. Certainly not big enough to go on some crusade.
Actually it is. Read my other posts if you want. There is a major point here and its that NCSoft is NOT clear about the Rift system and the extent that PVP is implemented on their website. Most people, like myself, thought PVP was confined to the Abyss like the RVR system in DAOC.
It isn't. The game is not what we thought it would be, therefore we have the right to cancel. Read posts 87, 88 and 89 for more clarification.
Really? Because when I read the description of the Abyss for the first time that is NOT what I thought. I even thought to myself, "Hmmm, sweet, so we have this big 'ol PvP area in addition to other stuff."
That's where the confusion in this entire post is coming from. I dunno, maybe my brain works differently than "most people". In fact, my entire clan (Havoc from Lineage 2 Sieghardt if anyone remembers us) thought the same thing. So that's about 15 or so people including myself who weren't confused. So....again, I'm not seeing the conflict here. If any of you guys had gone to Aionsource and asked on the forums before any of you pre-ordered you would have known.
Game's been out in Korea since december and China for nearly as long. Tons of people on Aionsource are either in Korea or China or played/are playing on those servers. They could have answered your guys' questions months ago, waaaaaay before pre-orders for us even opened.
I guess that's another difference between myself and my clan and "most people". If we aren't clear on a feature of a game then we go ask people before spending money on it. The information has been out there for months, any one of your dozens of guild members could have spent 15 minutes finding it and saved yourselves all this time and aggrivation.
I have to agree with Mustapha here. NC did nothing shady, it clearly says "prepurchase." In the future, order from places like Gamestop so that even if you never go and pick up your game when it's released, the most that they might charge you is $5 for a restocking fee. But they wont charge you for the full price of a game when you preorder unless you physically go to the store and buy it.
Guess i feel its a little shady that they are selling a full version of the game but you arent really getting the full version until Sept. I guess i just personally think its dirty to sell something and not refund when you havent yet provided what your selling. What i mean is they are selling the full play all day all night if you want version of the game. Which you cant you can play limited beta events. Now if you havent yet received the full version you purchase hasnt happened yet. you havent received the goods. so technically he hasent purchased anything just the comitment to buy it when it does come out. I personally dont like this way companies do buisness you should be able to cancel somethign you havent yet received
No shady would be doing this and then putting their disclaimer at the bottom of a very long page you have to scroll through to find.
They put a very noticeable disclaimer on the payment option page that says you WILL NOT GET A REFUND. You don't have to scroll down at ALL. It's right there, in front of your eyes, they even italicize the entire thing and bold the DISCLAIMER part of it. It isn't shady, they didn't trick you, you chose not to read something right in front of your face.
This is exactly like complaining that you fell into a ditch when two hundred yards back there was a sign that said, "Warning: Ditch Ahead!" Seriously, just stop. It's not NCsoft's fault, it's yours, take some responasability for your actions.
Well for starters i pre ordered my game from EB canceled with no issues. So i have no actions to take resposibility for. Is what NCSOFT did legit and legal sure it is im just saying i dont think its a nice way to do buisness. Selling something with no refund that your not actually providing yet.
"i dont think its a nice way to do buisness" = wtf?
It's not the only way you can buy the game. If it was, you have a point. But, in reality, nobody is forced to buy from NCSoft using this method and it is very clear if they choose to do so.
Maybe you dislike it, but there are obviously enough people who buy the game this way to make it worthwhile enough for NCSoft to sell it this way. Those who don't like this method of buying it all up front won't buy it that way.
Here's a comparison that works for what is going on in this thread (imo): sit-down restaurant vs. fast-food restaurant.
Your typical sit-down place lets you order, brings your food, and you pay AFTER you eat (this is how most of us are buying the game... we pay $5 for preorder beta access + the rest when it's release time). Fast-food joints = you buy what you want ahead of time and then get the food afterward (which is like NCSoft selling the whole game at once, then the player playing betas/downloading it at release).
Now, take it a step further. You're at the sit-down restaurant and decide you're not satisfied with your meal, the management won't help you out... easiest solution? You refuse to pay (but will probably never get to eat there). Good management would apologize before it got to that point, would give you the meal free, and give you gift certs so you come in again... They'd do whatever it takes to keep you as a customer.
Now, fast-food example... you buy a "#1" value meal, they make it up in a jiffy. You get your food and there's a hair in it. Ugh. Obviously, you show the manager the food and ask for a refund, they almost always give you one (again, knowing happy customers are more valuable than $5 in food). No problem with either example so far.
Okay, but what happens when you are at the fastfood place, you buy your meal, you get it... it's EXACTLY what you ordered and was advertised, but you decide AFTER you've paid and they've made the order that you want a cheeseburger instead of a whole big mac.... And up on the wall, or right by the register where you paid, it says "absolutely no refund! AND THIS MEANS YOU!!!"
The OP is trying to take his value meal back with the lame reason "I just changed my mind," and we're all pointing out that clear sign that says "no refund/all orders final."
I know Mickey D's would give the refund probably no problem, but they are not in the wrong because they make you pay up front for what is not yet ready/made for you to consume. You have a choice to pay up front and you made it by going there to eat. If you don't like paying first before you've even received your product, then eat at the type of establishments that charge you accordingly.
It is not sensible to pass value judgments on companies for how they sell their product when it is clearly explained... and what's more, in this case there are more than one way to pay for the game. OP feels buyer's remorse... he didn't want a big mac after all, and oh-so-sad... the manager is probably going to point at the "NO REFUND" sign, shrug his shoulders, and say "tough luck."
And you still want to fault the business for it's "shady" practice of their choice to have consumers pay up front? Even after it's clear there are other places that serve the same kind of food where you can pay in a way that you'd prefer?
It's just crazy.
Are you going to find out every little detail about a game from a fansite? Nope. There will always be details kept under wraps.
This exact issue is going on in the Champion's Online forum. Pre-orders for Champion's Online mention that you get "5 Cryptic bucks" with your pre-order.
Sounds like RMT to me. But NOBODY knows what it is or even the details of it AT ALL. Nothing. So we are all left guessing and until Cryptic releases the info about it, all we can do is guess.
However they are taking pre-orders for Champions Online.
Same situation, just a different issue.
No, it's NOT the same situation, that's the thing.
Aionsource has had information coming to it since the OB in KOREA started. Aion has been FULLY RELEASED in other countries for over six months now. Champion's Online hasn't been released ANYWHERE so it's a completely different scenario.
Even then, it goes back to something else I said in this thread already. If you think a feature in a game is unclear and can't get clarification then why would you get a non-refundable, full-purchase pre-order for it? You can't use that arguement for Aion because, as I said, it's been fully release in other countries with freely available info on a fansite for months now.
I know you guys are pissed and I -can- empathize, but that doesn't mean I'm going to. Info was out there and your supposedly huge guild CHOSE not to find it.
And we're back to the actual problem, not a symptom. I played DAOC, it was my first and favorite MMO. I just happen to have a broader range of experience.
The PROBLEM is that you chose not to go to another source for information. "God awful fanboi website"? Is that really necessary, really? It's a freaking FANSITE....SITE....FAN.....do the math. Clearly you've never even bothered to check it out because there is PLENTY of debate over the game. As long as things are kept civil the mods over there aren't going to close something. If you guys had posted a simple, "Hey, we're not sure what exactly these Rift things are, can anyone help?" you ALL would have known about them MONTHS ago.
Let me throw your question right back at you: Should a website with NO FORUM FOR THE GAME be enough? I can't think of a single game out there where every single feature is explained in every little explicit detail on just a website. That's what forums are for.
Even then are you seriously going to try to use that as a defense? Think about it: "So we have this incomplete information and even though there are these links to other websites with more info we aren't gonna click on em. Those sites are just fanboi websites and we're too leet."
That's how you make yourself and your guild sound, just being honest. Again, the info was out there...FREELY AVAILABLE.....you chose not to click, type a few simple words and get your answers.
Wait wait wait wait...whoa....hold on, alright all you're doing is helping my stance here man.
So...wait, you're going to tell me that YOUR GUILD HAD PEOPLE IN THE CHINESE VERSION??
Your -GUILD-....your own -GUILD-....had people....playing the full version.....
How in the HELL did none of you guys who didn't play the chinese version manage to NOT ask your OWN GUILDMATES some SIMPLE questions? Honestly? Really? You are completely blowing my mind right now with how utterly incomprehensable this is.
Maybe your guild needs to downsize or something man. Cause in my clan we talk to each other about games we're interested in. I was the first person in my clan to play the Chinese version and people asked me all sorts of questions. How did you manage not to ask your own guildies these same questions?
As far as websites goes...No, I wouldn't have told you to go to one more. First I would ask, "Did you post your question on a forum?" if you answered "Nope" then I would have first laughed then said that's all you needed to do. Which is exactly what I'm doing right now. I'm not telliny you to google Aion then click on all the websites that pop up, all you needed was to post ONE question on ONE forum....question would have been answered......problem would have been solved.....months ago.
Nooooo....your logic is off here.
Ok so you go to a buy a car, you go to the website to look at it's -features-. Ok, it's going to list all of it's features and then a brief little blurb about each feature. It's not going to have a glossary you can browse through that will explain everything in absolute detail.
For example: Car X comes with a fully installed turbo!
Ok, that's the feature blurb you would get on any wesbite, more or less. If you want to find out how that turbo affects engine life, maintenance, performance and what not you're going to HAVE to go to another source.
This is the exact same situation. This isn't even some obscure website, there has been a link to aionsource on the official website nearly since it went up.
Part of the problem is consumer intelligence, sure. I have learned and been taught throughout my life to inform MYSELF about purcahses I make. Whether it be a cell phone, car, mp3 player or what have you. The gaming industry itself warrants consumers informing themselves, especially these days.
Wha? When did your guild mates start playing CH version?
I was playing it and up above 20 before pre-orders were even open because I wanted to check the game out. Even then the game features on the website make it fairly obvious that PvP would be a fairly large part of the game. It doesn't take a super secret decoder ring or anything. All it takes is just comprehension of a bigger picture. Ok so PvP features of the game as I recall reading them the first time I read them months ago.
-Fortess battles
-Aerial PvP
-Instanced PvP
-Abyss PvP
-PvPvE
-Killing OTHER PLAYERS TO EARN POINTS FOR GEAR.
That's a lot of different PvP stuff. How were you guys thinking this would only be confined to the Abyss? It doesn't specifically say anywhere on the website that it will be, just as it doesn't say it won't. Re-reading it now I can see how it is unclear, but that should have been unclear to people on their first read. My past experiences established a context in which I placed what I read, so I didn't have any problems. People will fewer experiences probably would have found it vague.
Either way going to one forum and posting one question months ago would have solved this problem. You didn't need to ask about every feature. I -have- seen people ask about just about everything and gotten responses on aionsource, so you could have though. You could have asked about any features you were interested in. I don't know why you wouldn't if it's something you're interested in.
-Most- people like to talk about their interests with other people that share those interests. So it's not like I'm saying anything unusual here.
See the disagreement between persepctives here is that he considers that game flawed in design. The PvP is more of a bug. Like Windows BSOD's. They don't advertise them. You consider the PVP (much as I do) to be the point of the game. I mean it is being billed as a pvp game right? So He just assumed that pvp was optional in a pvp oriented game. Strange, Don't understand this.
To the OP. You've been told this 50 times over, it doesn't matter why you don't like the game. It doesn't matter you don't like how it was advertised on the NCSoft website. What matters is you clicked the pay button when it said non-refundable. Everything else is mute. Consider it a life leasson, never buy a game from the company who designed it. I learned that lesson few years back myself. Just the way it is. If your not sure, order from a real life store, not online. Reason why, $5 at best buy nets you the preorder goodies in a nice package with no making you buy full game. Worst case scenario your out a five spot not the full deal.
As for an MMO, first thing you should do when interested is go to the fansites for the whole story, not doing it is just lazy. NC Soft is not alone in only presenting the most high quality of information and media on their site. All game sites do this. Hell every business does. The fact that you even had Guild members in the Chineese Game means you just didn't take an easy step when it comes to spending your money and ensuring its a good deal for you.
I'm sure you came here to rouse sympothy. Even a way out of paying. I feel for your lose of cash. However what it comes off as a wow fanboi wanting to dis a game that many pvp oriented players are looking forward too. A polished well built fun game designed around pvp and pve in the end game. Not some half arsed game made by a few people in their closet.
I have to agree with Mustapha here. NC did nothing shady, it clearly says "prepurchase." In the future, order from places like Gamestop so that even if you never go and pick up your game when it's released, the most that they might charge you is $5 for a restocking fee. But they wont charge you for the full price of a game when you preorder unless you physically go to the store and buy it.
Guess i feel its a little shady that they are selling a full version of the game but you arent really getting the full version until Sept. I guess i just personally think its dirty to sell something and not refund when you havent yet provided what your selling. What i mean is they are selling the full play all day all night if you want version of the game. Which you cant you can play limited beta events. Now if you havent yet received the full version you purchase hasnt happened yet. you havent received the goods. so technically he hasent purchased anything just the comitment to buy it when it does come out. I personally dont like this way companies do buisness you should be able to cancel somethign you havent yet received
No shady would be doing this and then putting their disclaimer at the bottom of a very long page you have to scroll through to find.
They put a very noticeable disclaimer on the payment option page that says you WILL NOT GET A REFUND. You don't have to scroll down at ALL. It's right there, in front of your eyes, they even italicize the entire thing and bold the DISCLAIMER part of it. It isn't shady, they didn't trick you, you chose not to read something right in front of your face.
This is exactly like complaining that you fell into a ditch when two hundred yards back there was a sign that said, "Warning: Ditch Ahead!" Seriously, just stop. It's not NCsoft's fault, it's yours, take some responasability for your actions.
Well for starters i pre ordered my game from EB canceled with no issues. So i have no actions to take resposibility for. Is what NCSOFT did legit and legal sure it is im just saying i dont think its a nice way to do buisness. Selling something with no refund that your not actually providing yet.
"i dont think its a nice way to do buisness" = wtf?
It's not the only way you can buy the game. If it was, you have a point. But, in reality, nobody is forced to buy from NCSoft using this method and it is very clear if they choose to do so.
Maybe you dislike it, but there are obviously enough people who buy the game this way to make it worthwhile enough for NCSoft to sell it this way. Those who don't like this method of buying it all up front won't buy it that way.
Here's a comparison that works for what is going on in this thread (imo): sit-down restaurant vs. fast-food restaurant.
Your typical sit-down place lets you order, brings your food, and you pay AFTER you eat (this is how most of us are buying the game... we pay $5 for preorder beta access + the rest when it's release time). Fast-food joints = you buy what you want ahead of time and then get the food afterward (which is like NCSoft selling the whole game at once, then the player playing betas/downloading it at release).
Now, take it a step further. You're at the sit-down restaurant and decide you're not satisfied with your meal, the management won't help you out... easiest solution? You refuse to pay (but will probably never get to eat there). Good management would apologize before it got to that point, would give you the meal free, and give you gift certs so you come in again... They'd do whatever it takes to keep you as a customer.
Now, fast-food example... you buy a "#1" value meal, they make it up in a jiffy. You get your food and there's a hair in it. Ugh. Obviously, you show the manager the food and ask for a refund, they almost always give you one (again, knowing happy customers are more valuable than $5 in food). No problem with either example so far.
Okay, but what happens when you are at the fastfood place, you buy your meal, you get it... it's EXACTLY what you ordered and was advertised, but you decide AFTER you've paid and they've made the order that you want a cheeseburger instead of a whole big mac.... And up on the wall, or right by the register where you paid, it says "absolutely no refund! AND THIS MEANS YOU!!!"
The OP is trying to take his value meal back with the lame reason "I just changed my mind," and we're all pointing out that clear sign that says "no refund/all orders final."
I know Mickey D's would give the refund probably no problem, but they are not in the wrong because they make you pay up front for what is not yet ready/made for you to consume. You have a choice to pay up front and you made it by going there to eat. If you don't like paying first before you've even received your product, then eat at the type of establishments that charge you accordingly.
It is not sensible to pass value judgments on companies for how they sell their product when it is clearly explained... and what's more, in this case there are more than one way to pay for the game. OP feels buyer's remorse... he didn't want a big mac after all, and oh-so-sad... the manager is probably going to point at the "NO REFUND" sign, shrug his shoulders, and say "tough luck."
And you still want to fault the business for it's "shady" practice of their choice to have consumers pay up front? Even after it's clear there are other places that serve the same kind of food where you can pay in a way that you'd prefer?
It's just crazy.
So just to be clear you comparing fast food to software selling software WTF well to use your example try this you order combo number 1 say its the big mac combo burger fries and a drink and what they actually give you is 6 individual fries and say see ya in 2 months for the rest of your order. Than doesnt make sens but ya still pay full price. I agree buyer beware OP had other options. Doesnt excuse the one option being "odd" to me. You should be able to get a refund as long as you dont use the product. In this case the full version of the game.