Bottom line is Bioware does not need s*** from Mystic, Mystic will only add staff to Bioware.
Sure Mystic messed up cause of the people leading it, but Bioware is leading Bioware and not even EA can do anything about that. So all mystic is going to do is add to the staff of Bioware and help speed things along. In the end Bioware leaders will have the final says and give approval to the things the mystic helped with the game. There is no way Bioware would mess up a game, they are their own people that do things their way and so far it has worked and worked great with the games they have put out.
The people that start posts like this did not read anything about the game, have no clue about anything or are just trolls. If you think Bioware is going to let EA or mystic mess up this game then all I have to say is send me a PM, I have some Bridges for sale.
What you should all realize is that this game will probably have: bugs, imbalance, lack of polish, crap pvp, and countless other flaws. I'm not a doom sayer but I've been gaming a very long time now and heres what happens with mmos.
Investor A meets with Developer B to discuss creating a new mmo C.
A gives B a ton of capital (money).
B begins work on C.
B contacts A for more money (srry we didn't know that mmos take a lot of work/money).
A grumbles and gives B more money, and B continues work.
A doesn't hear from B for a long time. So A contacts B (WTF is my mmo ::moans::).
B feverishly and wrecklessly speeds through the design of C.
A contacts B (WTF is my mmo ::moans::).
This cycle continues until A aggrivates B enough to get a release date for C (Mine investor doth want money!!! ::moans::).
Finally C is released, but to everyones shock and dismay, C is not C.
C is now F and F = A train wreck of an mmo.
I like Bioware. I like lucasarts. Now lets be honest, the odds are that we will get what we've been getting. Four tires with the promise of an engine later. I definitely will not be suckered into another half finished mmo. So by all means some of you run and go buy it so I can find out if I want it or if its worth buying. Just my opinion....
They are in, but they are not in postions to do squat to a game that is for the most part done.
Bioware has their MMO people in place, they had them in place since 2005, Mystic is only there to help do grunt work. No way that Bioware knew that WAR would go bust and say hey lets wait till they go down and we can use their MMO ppl, HELL NO! They have brought in people that have done MMO's before. Bioware puts out games that work and they would never let someone mess up their reputation in order to just simply put out a game.
When you read that Mystic and Bioware will work together that is plain and simple bull s*** to make it look like everything is grand now with mystic and that the two will be a good combo. Bioware was 5 times the company before mystic and still are since mystic doesn't have much wisdom to bring to the table.
All mystic will do is grunt work for ToR and Bioware will help them with WAR till it goes tits up.
As for the things still in development, for the most part they are done, they just haven't been shownyet. They are being worked on by Bioware people, the same people that have been working on them for years now. Mystic at this point hasn't even started to help and when they do, it will be grunt work that has to be over seen by Bioware.
All Mythic's employees are going to do is provide assistance in completing the game, I would expect the creative vision and control will always remain with Bioware.
Yet a company like Blizzard seems to have been greatly influenced by developers on their team that came from EverQuest, turning it into the raid or die paradigm just like every other MMO.
The point being that they are being integrated into the team and WILL have input on every aspect of the game and future expansions and updates. They are old schoolers who will inevitably influence this game to focus on old school paradigms instead of moving the genre forward and giving us a different gaming experience. Now we can pretty much guarantee this will become another forced grouping, raid or die, social simulation piece of crap.
There are a lot of people looking for something other than the same old, same old and they certainly aren't going to draw in new blood to the genre by keeping the formula the same.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
All Mythic's employees are going to do is provide assistance in completing the game, I would expect the creative vision and control will always remain with Bioware.
Yet a company like Blizzard seems to have been greatly influenced by developers on their team that came from EverQuest, turning it into the raid or die paradigm just like every other MMO.
The point being that they are being integrated into the team and WILL have input on every aspect of the game and future expansions and updates. They are old schoolers who will inevitably influence this game to focus on old school paradigms instead of moving the genre forward and giving us a different gaming experience. Now we can pretty much guarantee this will become another forced grouping, raid or die, social simulation piece of crap.
There are a lot of people looking for something other than the same old, same old and they certainly aren't going to draw in new blood to the genre by keeping the formula the same.
I played WoW since release and it was designed raid heavy from the get go. When it was released it had 40 man raids but after the first expansion they droped the raid group size to 25 so I have no idea how you can say....
"Yet a company like Blizzard seems to have been greatly influenced by developers on their team that came from EverQuest, turning it into the raid or die paradigm just like every other MMO."
How does cutting the raid size down and adding more ways to "gear up" such as better items you can craft instead of raiding make it a more of a "forced to group mmo"? I actually quit playing WoW shortly after the first expansion becuase i felt it changed too much but thats just me.
Anyway I am kind of glad Mythic is helping to finish this game I want to play it already!!! I haven't been able to find any good MMO since WoW was destroyed.
All i pray is that Mythic doesnt come in and add a crap ton of PvP crap, I'd be perfectly happy if there was no PvP which I kno wont happen. So mythic being mixxed in looks likes biowares answer to pvp, and well, mythics ideas of pvp arnt the greatest i.e WAR and DAoC so i guess we get to wait and see what they do. If I see Arenas or Battlegrounds in the future of TOR I wont be touching it with a 10 foot cattle prod.
Oh and for the people who think Mythic wont have much influence and are just adding to staff, look at all the even crappier things that are happening to WoW, and the development of Starcraft 2 as a result of Activision and Blizzard mixxing.
Originally posted by Dalgor Oh and for the people who think Mythic wont have much influence and are just adding to staff, look at all the even crappier things that are happening to WoW, and the development of Starcraft 2 as a result of Activision and Blizzard mixxing.
lolwhut? Activision is the PUBLISHER, if something is screwy with WoW/SC2 blame Blizzard.
They are in, but they are not in postions to do squat to a game that is for the most part done. Bioware has their MMO people in place, they had them in place since 2005, Mystic is only there to help do grunt work. No way that Bioware knew that WAR would go bust and say hey lets wait till they go down and we can use their MMO ppl, HELL NO! They have brought in people that have done MMO's before. Bioware puts out games that work and they would never let someone mess up their reputation in order to just simply put out a game. When you read that Mystic and Bioware will work together that is plain and simple bull s*** to make it look like everything is grand now with mystic and that the two will be a good combo. Bioware was 5 times the company before mystic and still are since mystic doesn't have much wisdom to bring to the table.
All mystic will do is grunt work for ToR and Bioware will help them with WAR till it goes tits up. As for the things still in development, for the most part they are done, they just haven't been shownyet. They are being worked on by Bioware people, the same people that have been working on them for years now. Mystic at this point hasn't even started to help and when they do, it will be grunt work that has to be over seen by Bioware.
First off it's MYTHIC nof Mystic. As for their employees only pulling grunt work, do you really think that they can't affect the game negatively? It's grunt work that causes itemization to be fudged up. Grunt work, that causes your game to crash in a particular zone. Grunt work that causes your abilities not to work, to stack, or to work improperly.
It Mythic employees, based on past performances, were working in a grocery store they'd have tomato sauce in the juice aisle, and fanta orange soda with the produce. It seems they can mess up the simplest things, do you really want to trust them with anything short of taking out the garbage and filing your coffee?
Why are there so many damned doomsayers on these forums?? Let me spell it out for you:
Bioware and Mythic are now both part of EA. Bioware has tons of RPG experience, but 0 PvP experience. Mythic has tons of PvP experience (RVR, etc.). Bioware has promised to have something for everyone (including the PvP crowd) in SW:TOR.
Therefore, Bioware NEEDS Mythic's experience in regards to PvP. They have the RPG elements already laid out and are just putting the final polish on everything... But they have NO experience when it comes to PvP. Just because one EA company is helping another EA company on ONE ELEMENT of their game does not mean that they are giving complete creative control to them. Personally, I am rather glad that Mythic is helping Bioware with the PVP elements of TOR. Mythic has a track record for being able to pull off meaningful PvP. They have learned from their mistakes with WAR and the community feedback and they can ensure that those mistakes do not occur with TOR. This indicates to me that they are implementing PvP as a core feature and not an afterthought. I have to say I'm pretty pleased by that. Think positively for once people!
Mythic also has SCREWED up their pvp multiple times.
DAOC - Buggy pets, LoS issues, Animists shroom placements, Nuking through walls/doors (bainshees, vamps), Class Imbalances ,Trials of Atlantis artifacts turned pvp upside down. New Frontiers made tanks worthless in sieges for many months.
Warhammer- Buggy pets, Poor Siege weapon designs, Crowd Control issues, multiple nerfs/boosts to classes months after release for things that were blatently obvious to beta testers but ignored, abilities not working properly, resists not working well after release. Another PVE expansion which is having a negative effect on RvR.
If anything, I"d rather the only help Mythic gives Bioware is a copy of Warhammer and access to the warhammer, mmorpg, and vn boards to read every thread about war's fabulous pvp as an example of what not to do.
A lot of the things you are referring to here are issues with the Mythic game engines, which will not be an issue in this game. TOR is using the Hero Engine which will (hopefully) not have a lot of the bugs found in the DAOC or WAR engines.
While I agree with you that Mythic has made a lot of mistakes on their games, I also see them as pioneers in certain aspects of PvP in MMO games. As you and many others have already pointed out, much of what Mythic has done is an example of what NOT to do... and who better is there to impart knowledge than those who have learned these lessons the hard way? They have both done things right AND wrong and regardless of their mistakes, they have MUCH more experience than Bioware when it comes to PvP and MMORPGs in general. Bioware has learned no lessons (right or wrong) when it comes to PvP simply because they have never attempted it...
Don't think for a second that Mythic is not aware of the inherent problems in their own games. I guarantee you they have watched and noted the things that caused the most problems for them... I just don't see how it would hurt to have their knowledge and experience on hand for the development of TOR. Bioware is still at the helm after all..
A lot of the things you are referring to here are issues with the Mythic game engines, which will not be an issue in this game. TOR is using the Hero Engine which will (hopefully) not have a lot of the bugs found in the DAOC or WAR engines. While I agree with you that Mythic has made a lot of mistakes on their games, I also see them as pioneers in certain aspects of PvP in MMO games. As you and many others have already pointed out, much of what Mythic has done is an example of what NOT to do... and who better is there to impart knowledge than those who have learned these lessons the hard way? They have both done things right AND wrong and regardless of their mistakes, they have MUCH more experience than Bioware when it comes to PvP and MMORPGs in general. Bioware has learned no lessons (right or wrong) when it comes to PvP simply because they have never attempted it... Don't think for a second that Mythic is not aware of the inherent problems in their own games. I guarantee you they have watched and noted the things that caused the most problems for them... I just don't see how it would hurt to have their knowledge and experience on hand for the development of TOR. Bioware is still at the helm after all..
But here's the rub... Mythic has never once wavered in their idealogy that WaR is flawed at it's core. Their attitudes about their game design has been shown several times in beta events and that regardless of overwhelming opinion they refused to think their designs were faulty. If anything every developer interview has been a huge wall of denial or arrogance. If they cannot admit their mistakes and still continue to make them, how much help can they possibly be? That's like an alcoholic who doesn't believe he or she has a drinking problem helping a drug addict get clean.
Improper itemization is NOT an issue with the game engine.
Overwhelming CC is not an issue with the game engine.
Overwhelming DPS bursts from BW and WE at launch was not a matter of the game engine.
PVE Items/Zones affecting pvp/rvr negatively is not an issue with the game engine.
Creating siege weapons that are immovable yet cannot target players or keeps due to Line of Sight/Range is not an issue with the game engine.
Originally posted by Greenie But here's the rub... Mythic has never once wavered in their idealogy that WaR is flawed at it's core. Their attitudes about their game design has been shown several times in beta events and that regardless of overwhelming opinion they refused to think their designs were faulty. If anything every developer interview has been a huge wall of denial or arrogance. If they cannot admit their mistakes and still continue to make them, how much help can they possibly be? That's like an alcoholic who doesn't believe he or she has a drinking problem helping a drug addict get clean. Improper itemization is NOT an issue with the game engine. Overwhelming CC is not an issue with the game engine. Overwhelming DPS bursts from BW and WE at launch was not a matter of the game engine. PVE Items/Zones affecting pvp/rvr negatively is not an issue with the game engine. Creating siege weapons that are immovable yet cannot target players or keeps due to Line of Sight/Range is not an issue with the game engine.
I think that their public attitude in regards to these issues is more PR spin than actual opinion.
The worst thing they could do at this point is admit that the game design is irreparably flawed. Yes, they screwed up... they can't possibly not see that at this point considering how many people have left WAR. But that does not mean that they don't understand the problems. In fact, I believe that the issues with WAR are a large part of the reason why Mark Jacobs resigned. EA was no doubt a bit upset that their hopeful new cash cow was not all that it promised.
My only point is this: Bioware is still in control of this thing. And what is left of Mythic is under major pressure EA and the gaming community about the problems with WAR. A lot of those WAR issues are design choices and are not fixable at this point, but that does not mean that the Mythic people don't understand those problems. And it certainly doesn't mean that they won't learn from those mistakes and make sure that TOR does not repeat them.
If Mythic is going to be apart of the development team then kiss this game good bye. I won't even touch a game that has Sony, Mythic or Failcom on it. Oh well good game going down the drain.
NEXT.
mmorpg's flop faster then mcdonalds cheese burgers these days.
I think that their public attitude in regards to these issues is more PR spin than actual opinion. The worst thing they could do at this point is admit that the game design is irreparably flawed. Yes, they screwed up... they can't possibly not see that at this point considering how many people have left WAR. But that does not mean that they don't understand the problems. In fact, I believe that the issues with WAR are a large part of the reason why Mark Jacobs resigned. EA was no doubt a bit upset that their hopeful new cash cow was not all that it promised. My only point is this: Bioware is still in control of this thing. And what is left of Mythic is under major pressure EA and the gaming community about the problems with WAR. A lot of those WAR issues are design choices and are not fixable at this point, but that does not mean that the Mythic people don't understand those problems. And it certainly doesn't mean that they won't learn from those mistakes and make sure that TOR does not repeat them.
Yes, I'm sure some of that is PR spin. They haven't done a good job of it. It's possible for companies to own up to mistakes and retain their subscriber base/customers. I'm not asking for a full on confession but we are a forgiving country and a little bit of honesty goes a long way.
My point is Mythic has repeated the same mistakes they made in DaoC and magnified them in WaR. That, is not showing any signs of learning from your mistakes. Mythic has a track record of continually messing up games with poor design choices, coding, customer service,, so what in the hell makes you think after all this that they've learned anything?
I think you're being an apologist for the collossul mistakes Mythic has made and continues to make. Don't get me wrong, DaoC has always been my favorite game and I just wish another game would come in and capture the feelings/memories I had in it's glory days but until Mythic PROVES they've learned something by releasing a finished, polished, functioning, and well designed product, they do not deserve any benefit of the doubt.
Afterall, your first rebuttal to my post was the engine was at fault for WAR and DaoC's problems. Now you are saying that a lot of the issues are design choices which have proven to be mistakes. So if the engine was a mistake, the design choices are problems, then whose fault was it? Are you really naive enough to believe that MJ had his hand in every decision made on a daily basis on every aspect of the game?
eh w/e, was a worthless group of people before as they are now. The short of it is that Bioware is looking over their shoulders on the grunt work they are doing and this is BW's game they already have their ideas and MMO people in place, so not even EA or Mythic can mess this up. It is all on BW.
If they're just helping with programming and stuff like that, Mythic shouldn't get in the way, but if they're designing the storyline, combat, etc. I think that's BioWare and LucasArts's job
Mythic is pretty much just helping with the multiplayer programming since they have experience there. They will have little, if anything to say on the gameplay. I got this information from a recent IGN article.
Wasn't a post with almost the same name made just like a week ago to, saying the same thing? I heard search doesn't work here.
Also, if you caught the new video from the main guy behind bioware/this game, when asked what mythic people would be doing, he almost said LOL THEY AREN'T HELPING..
He, in a round about way, said they are giving ideas that they learned from their two games, but are not actually in the decision making process.
But hey, don't play, one less loldarksithlordlol20123 playing :P.
if you think mythic is a bad dev for MMO's you're just a noob. They do good jobs. and plus it's being made by Bioware, i doubt Mythic will turn it into the open pvp classfest (which i happen to love) that you seemingly think it will be. fly away stupid troll, fly away.
Could you people put this anymore out of proportion?
Mythic is a good company, a bright shot better than most.
Mythic has changed and influenced the MMO World unlike Bioware which never has made an MMO before. They introduced the RvR idea, Public Quests, etc. In its prime DAoC was the best PvP game on the market bar none. Name one game that was better with an explanation detailing your logic. If TOR had that kind of gameplay experience combined with Bioware's ability to make what will be great PvE content then you have a winner.
To be quite honest I have more concerns about BIoware's actions than the possiblity of Mythic actually influencing Bioware to add a great PvP experience as well.
Because you know, heaven forbid TOR have PvP as it will ruin the game right?
Don't be dumb guys, Mythic is a good company and this is amazing news that mythic is assisting Bioware. This means that there will be more staff, more experience, and faster development time. This means that Bioware is serious about making a game to compete with World of GoonCraft.
Don't be dumb guys, Mythic is a good company and this is amazing news that mythic is assisting Bioware. This means that there will be more staff, more experience, and faster development time. This means that Bioware is serious about making a game to compete with World of GoonCraft.
I would love to hear an explanation oh why you believe Mythic to be a good company.
Comments
Bottom line is Bioware does not need s*** from Mystic, Mystic will only add staff to Bioware.
Sure Mystic messed up cause of the people leading it, but Bioware is leading Bioware and not even EA can do anything about that. So all mystic is going to do is add to the staff of Bioware and help speed things along. In the end Bioware leaders will have the final says and give approval to the things the mystic helped with the game. There is no way Bioware would mess up a game, they are their own people that do things their way and so far it has worked and worked great with the games they have put out.
The people that start posts like this did not read anything about the game, have no clue about anything or are just trolls. If you think Bioware is going to let EA or mystic mess up this game then all I have to say is send me a PM, I have some Bridges for sale.
Whether you like it or not, when Mythic comes in, more or less its gona affect the way Bioware works.
Example, Mythic dev : " dude, why not you put this in, so that blah blah will be better?" And since Bio have no experiance in mmo, they agree...
Note that there's still a few more class that's in developement. I think even the end-game is still being develope while we speak...
Till now we still dont know when is beta, so to say the game is mostly ready and will not change, its really too early to tell...
The asshat at EA may suddenly change a few major components during this period...
So i think it will be better for us to wait before we jump in...
Edit: Bottom line is, as long s i see that Paul comes out wielding a lightsaber, Im out....
RIP Orc Choppa
What you should all realize is that this game will probably have: bugs, imbalance, lack of polish, crap pvp, and countless other flaws. I'm not a doom sayer but I've been gaming a very long time now and heres what happens with mmos.
Investor A meets with Developer B to discuss creating a new mmo C.
A gives B a ton of capital (money).
B begins work on C.
B contacts A for more money (srry we didn't know that mmos take a lot of work/money).
A grumbles and gives B more money, and B continues work.
A doesn't hear from B for a long time. So A contacts B (WTF is my mmo ::moans::).
B feverishly and wrecklessly speeds through the design of C.
A contacts B (WTF is my mmo ::moans::).
This cycle continues until A aggrivates B enough to get a release date for C (Mine investor doth want money!!! ::moans::).
Finally C is released, but to everyones shock and dismay, C is not C.
C is now F and F = A train wreck of an mmo.
I like Bioware. I like lucasarts. Now lets be honest, the odds are that we will get what we've been getting. Four tires with the promise of an engine later. I definitely will not be suckered into another half finished mmo. So by all means some of you run and go buy it so I can find out if I want it or if its worth buying. Just my opinion....
They are in, but they are not in postions to do squat to a game that is for the most part done.
Bioware has their MMO people in place, they had them in place since 2005, Mystic is only there to help do grunt work. No way that Bioware knew that WAR would go bust and say hey lets wait till they go down and we can use their MMO ppl, HELL NO! They have brought in people that have done MMO's before. Bioware puts out games that work and they would never let someone mess up their reputation in order to just simply put out a game.
When you read that Mystic and Bioware will work together that is plain and simple bull s*** to make it look like everything is grand now with mystic and that the two will be a good combo. Bioware was 5 times the company before mystic and still are since mystic doesn't have much wisdom to bring to the table.
All mystic will do is grunt work for ToR and Bioware will help them with WAR till it goes tits up.
As for the things still in development, for the most part they are done, they just haven't been shownyet. They are being worked on by Bioware people, the same people that have been working on them for years now. Mystic at this point hasn't even started to help and when they do, it will be grunt work that has to be over seen by Bioware.
Yet a company like Blizzard seems to have been greatly influenced by developers on their team that came from EverQuest, turning it into the raid or die paradigm just like every other MMO.
The point being that they are being integrated into the team and WILL have input on every aspect of the game and future expansions and updates. They are old schoolers who will inevitably influence this game to focus on old school paradigms instead of moving the genre forward and giving us a different gaming experience. Now we can pretty much guarantee this will become another forced grouping, raid or die, social simulation piece of crap.
There are a lot of people looking for something other than the same old, same old and they certainly aren't going to draw in new blood to the genre by keeping the formula the same.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Yet a company like Blizzard seems to have been greatly influenced by developers on their team that came from EverQuest, turning it into the raid or die paradigm just like every other MMO.
The point being that they are being integrated into the team and WILL have input on every aspect of the game and future expansions and updates. They are old schoolers who will inevitably influence this game to focus on old school paradigms instead of moving the genre forward and giving us a different gaming experience. Now we can pretty much guarantee this will become another forced grouping, raid or die, social simulation piece of crap.
There are a lot of people looking for something other than the same old, same old and they certainly aren't going to draw in new blood to the genre by keeping the formula the same.
I played WoW since release and it was designed raid heavy from the get go. When it was released it had 40 man raids but after the first expansion they droped the raid group size to 25 so I have no idea how you can say....
"Yet a company like Blizzard seems to have been greatly influenced by developers on their team that came from EverQuest, turning it into the raid or die paradigm just like every other MMO."
How does cutting the raid size down and adding more ways to "gear up" such as better items you can craft instead of raiding make it a more of a "forced to group mmo"? I actually quit playing WoW shortly after the first expansion becuase i felt it changed too much but thats just me.
Anyway I am kind of glad Mythic is helping to finish this game I want to play it already!!! I haven't been able to find any good MMO since WoW was destroyed.
All i pray is that Mythic doesnt come in and add a crap ton of PvP crap, I'd be perfectly happy if there was no PvP which I kno wont happen. So mythic being mixxed in looks likes biowares answer to pvp, and well, mythics ideas of pvp arnt the greatest i.e WAR and DAoC so i guess we get to wait and see what they do. If I see Arenas or Battlegrounds in the future of TOR I wont be touching it with a 10 foot cattle prod.
Oh and for the people who think Mythic wont have much influence and are just adding to staff, look at all the even crappier things that are happening to WoW, and the development of Starcraft 2 as a result of Activision and Blizzard mixxing.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
lolwhut? Activision is the PUBLISHER, if something is screwy with WoW/SC2 blame Blizzard.
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First off it's MYTHIC nof Mystic. As for their employees only pulling grunt work, do you really think that they can't affect the game negatively? It's grunt work that causes itemization to be fudged up. Grunt work, that causes your game to crash in a particular zone. Grunt work that causes your abilities not to work, to stack, or to work improperly.
It Mythic employees, based on past performances, were working in a grocery store they'd have tomato sauce in the juice aisle, and fanta orange soda with the produce. It seems they can mess up the simplest things, do you really want to trust them with anything short of taking out the garbage and filing your coffee?
Mythic also has SCREWED up their pvp multiple times.
DAOC - Buggy pets, LoS issues, Animists shroom placements, Nuking through walls/doors (bainshees, vamps), Class Imbalances ,Trials of Atlantis artifacts turned pvp upside down. New Frontiers made tanks worthless in sieges for many months.
Warhammer- Buggy pets, Poor Siege weapon designs, Crowd Control issues, multiple nerfs/boosts to classes months after release for things that were blatently obvious to beta testers but ignored, abilities not working properly, resists not working well after release. Another PVE expansion which is having a negative effect on RvR.
If anything, I"d rather the only help Mythic gives Bioware is a copy of Warhammer and access to the warhammer, mmorpg, and vn boards to read every thread about war's fabulous pvp as an example of what not to do.
A lot of the things you are referring to here are issues with the Mythic game engines, which will not be an issue in this game. TOR is using the Hero Engine which will (hopefully) not have a lot of the bugs found in the DAOC or WAR engines.
While I agree with you that Mythic has made a lot of mistakes on their games, I also see them as pioneers in certain aspects of PvP in MMO games. As you and many others have already pointed out, much of what Mythic has done is an example of what NOT to do... and who better is there to impart knowledge than those who have learned these lessons the hard way? They have both done things right AND wrong and regardless of their mistakes, they have MUCH more experience than Bioware when it comes to PvP and MMORPGs in general. Bioware has learned no lessons (right or wrong) when it comes to PvP simply because they have never attempted it...
Don't think for a second that Mythic is not aware of the inherent problems in their own games. I guarantee you they have watched and noted the things that caused the most problems for them... I just don't see how it would hurt to have their knowledge and experience on hand for the development of TOR. Bioware is still at the helm after all..
Get back under your bridge, troll!
But here's the rub... Mythic has never once wavered in their idealogy that WaR is flawed at it's core. Their attitudes about their game design has been shown several times in beta events and that regardless of overwhelming opinion they refused to think their designs were faulty. If anything every developer interview has been a huge wall of denial or arrogance. If they cannot admit their mistakes and still continue to make them, how much help can they possibly be? That's like an alcoholic who doesn't believe he or she has a drinking problem helping a drug addict get clean.
Improper itemization is NOT an issue with the game engine.
Overwhelming CC is not an issue with the game engine.
Overwhelming DPS bursts from BW and WE at launch was not a matter of the game engine.
PVE Items/Zones affecting pvp/rvr negatively is not an issue with the game engine.
Creating siege weapons that are immovable yet cannot target players or keeps due to Line of Sight/Range is not an issue with the game engine.
I think that their public attitude in regards to these issues is more PR spin than actual opinion.
The worst thing they could do at this point is admit that the game design is irreparably flawed. Yes, they screwed up... they can't possibly not see that at this point considering how many people have left WAR. But that does not mean that they don't understand the problems. In fact, I believe that the issues with WAR are a large part of the reason why Mark Jacobs resigned. EA was no doubt a bit upset that their hopeful new cash cow was not all that it promised.
My only point is this: Bioware is still in control of this thing. And what is left of Mythic is under major pressure EA and the gaming community about the problems with WAR. A lot of those WAR issues are design choices and are not fixable at this point, but that does not mean that the Mythic people don't understand those problems. And it certainly doesn't mean that they won't learn from those mistakes and make sure that TOR does not repeat them.
If Mythic is going to be apart of the development team then kiss this game good bye. I won't even touch a game that has Sony, Mythic or Failcom on it. Oh well good game going down the drain.
NEXT.
mmorpg's flop faster then mcdonalds cheese burgers these days.
Yes, I'm sure some of that is PR spin. They haven't done a good job of it. It's possible for companies to own up to mistakes and retain their subscriber base/customers. I'm not asking for a full on confession but we are a forgiving country and a little bit of honesty goes a long way.
My point is Mythic has repeated the same mistakes they made in DaoC and magnified them in WaR. That, is not showing any signs of learning from your mistakes. Mythic has a track record of continually messing up games with poor design choices, coding, customer service,, so what in the hell makes you think after all this that they've learned anything?
I think you're being an apologist for the collossul mistakes Mythic has made and continues to make. Don't get me wrong, DaoC has always been my favorite game and I just wish another game would come in and capture the feelings/memories I had in it's glory days but until Mythic PROVES they've learned something by releasing a finished, polished, functioning, and well designed product, they do not deserve any benefit of the doubt.
Afterall, your first rebuttal to my post was the engine was at fault for WAR and DaoC's problems. Now you are saying that a lot of the issues are design choices which have proven to be mistakes. So if the engine was a mistake, the design choices are problems, then whose fault was it? Are you really naive enough to believe that MJ had his hand in every decision made on a daily basis on every aspect of the game?
eh w/e, was a worthless group of people before as they are now. The short of it is that Bioware is looking over their shoulders on the grunt work they are doing and this is BW's game they already have their ideas and MMO people in place, so not even EA or Mythic can mess this up. It is all on BW.
If they're just helping with programming and stuff like that, Mythic shouldn't get in the way, but if they're designing the storyline, combat, etc. I think that's BioWare and LucasArts's job
Mythic is pretty much just helping with the multiplayer programming since they have experience there. They will have little, if anything to say on the gameplay. I got this information from a recent IGN article.
Wasn't a post with almost the same name made just like a week ago to, saying the same thing? I heard search doesn't work here.
Also, if you caught the new video from the main guy behind bioware/this game, when asked what mythic people would be doing, he almost said LOL THEY AREN'T HELPING..
He, in a round about way, said they are giving ideas that they learned from their two games, but are not actually in the decision making process.
But hey, don't play, one less loldarksithlordlol20123 playing :P.
if you think mythic is a bad dev for MMO's you're just a noob. They do good jobs. and plus it's being made by Bioware, i doubt Mythic will turn it into the open pvp classfest (which i happen to love) that you seemingly think it will be. fly away stupid troll, fly away.
if mythic bring their European Server contracts with that horrendous company that is running the servers for WoW, then this game WILL fail...
imagine beta launch and players all over the place have to wait 72 hours + and counting just to register their access pass.
EA is a game cash cow, they will have this game dumbed right down so 3 year olds can play!
Just wait and see the game advertised on the cartoon network for evidence!
Could you people put this anymore out of proportion?
Mythic is a good company, a bright shot better than most.
Mythic has changed and influenced the MMO World unlike Bioware which never has made an MMO before. They introduced the RvR idea, Public Quests, etc. In its prime DAoC was the best PvP game on the market bar none. Name one game that was better with an explanation detailing your logic. If TOR had that kind of gameplay experience combined with Bioware's ability to make what will be great PvE content then you have a winner.
To be quite honest I have more concerns about BIoware's actions than the possiblity of Mythic actually influencing Bioware to add a great PvP experience as well.
Because you know, heaven forbid TOR have PvP as it will ruin the game right?
Don't be dumb guys, Mythic is a good company and this is amazing news that mythic is assisting Bioware. This means that there will be more staff, more experience, and faster development time. This means that Bioware is serious about making a game to compete with World of GoonCraft.
I would love to hear an explanation oh why you believe Mythic to be a good company.
I only have one thing that bothers me about all of this , It is EA !
I have seen EA destroy good things , and try getting help from them in an mmo!
They will have to change alot before I can truly consider using any of their productions.