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You die..*level down* please equip the armor you just sold haha
Home15
Member Posts: 203
I remember playing FF11 for the first time, the most frustrating aspect of that game was when you finaly reached the level to equip a certain armor set you automaticly started to sell your old gear since at that time (i dont know how it is now) the inventory space was very limited at the start.
With joy and proud you venture trough the woods just to sundenly get killed by a horde of train mobs by some griefer with no life to smear the death of anoyence at you, then "level down" apears on your screen.
Do you think FF14 needs the level down system, will it still have it, or would you rather that they kept such a feature.
Comments
Absolutely
The exp loss is a punishment for failure. I know that sometimes you die because someone else fucks up, but that it life. You need to overcome the punishment and the failure in order to become a better player. I mean if there was no exp loss when dying then you could be in a tight situation and decide to not fight it and just take the death. There have been a few times when I play WoW when I'll pull two or three more mobs than I planned on and I just decided to take a death and start over since there is no exp loss and the armor/weapon deterioration isn't that great anyway. If that was in FFXI and there was some sort of penalty for death I am going to work hard to get out of the situation (uses of some potion, major crowd control spell, plan c the ladies, etc ...).
Over coming this punishment and winning makes you a better player. Next time you might be a little more warying of pulling like you did, you might take not of how a mob will link, you might not panic when someone goes apeshit critial (which will help you in mission like Omega/Ultima or Alexander). Over all overcoming the punishment is a challenge and that beating the challenge makes you a better player. Thusly keep the exp penaltiy.
Should you lose a level if your death drops drops your exp below 1? I'd say yes, just because there is that added shame and failure there as well. You say how annoying it is when it happens, then make sure it doesn't happen again. I get annoyed when I level down to but it only happens when I just leveled in a party and typically I will relevel before I even unweaken. Next time you are going to try harder so you won't delevel and losing 1000 exp and staying at say level 25 isn't as shameful as losing 1000 exp and then dropping to 24. Also consider that say you are level 75. It is very very easy to recover a few hundred exp that you are going to lose when you die. So you have to kill a dozen more mobs it really isn't that bad.
What if it wasn't your fault? What if your healer when afk in the middle of a fight and you die for it? Sorry to say it: Tough shit. Find a better healer. And trust me word gets out that a healer goes afk they won't get parties other than the crap of the crap that is their punishment. Sorry you lose exp, and it is harsh to say, but find better friends.
As for the armor falling off when you delevel. Number A ... that is your (or whoever-it-happens-to's) fault. If you get a hundred or so exp into a level and you sell all your equipment for upgrades then shame on you. You have to plan ahead and realize that death is inevitable and that you will die and lose exp at some point in this game. Either pick up a buffer before you break that party so you can go upgrade your gear or carry two sets of gear with you for a party. If you want to claim shitty inventory space then again your fault. I'd take two sets of gear and pass up on some crystals for a while. Either that or you could actually do the inventory expansion quests.
The game won't be experience points based as stated by Square-Enix so I am not sure how they are going to implement a penalty.
There definitely needs to be some type of punitive death penalty. Simply put, without risk there is no worthwhile reward.
Yep, I concur with this. There needs to be a lv death penalty.
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This
There are no levels in FF14, and so this incredibly annoying Level Down feature will not be present. Who knows what they have planned for the death penalty, however. They could find something much worse, but I doubt they will.
The Level Down feature was a pointless part of FFXI. I'm a firm believe in keeping earned levels and not having to worry about an accident bringing you down a level, ruining your gear set up and generally just making you weaker. The experience hit is enough of a problem as it slows down your leveling speed. Add a debuff on top of it that lowers the amount of experience you get from kills for X minutes or X amount of kills or something.
Slow down progress but don't completely reverse it. That in itself is enough to piss off just about anyone.
FFXI has its problems, but that is by far one that should never have been included.
I'll disagree with this part.
I think there was a point to the penalty, more specifically to make sure that people played well within groups. There simply is nothing more annoying in any MMO than to have 4 or 5 members of a 6 member group paying attention and focused on taking down a super tough mob/boss and the other two (or key one) goofing off and doing "his own thing". The amount of time it takes to get to camps, find appropriate mobs and begin to play was always offset by morons charging mobs before anyone was ready and wiping the groups.
One very good thing about FFXI was if you had such a group, and the idiots would keep taking hate or pulling aggro from roaming mobs, or going AFK constantly, we used to let them die or wouldn't rez them. This was after REPEATED warnings to stop acting like an ass and play with the GROUP. Once the guy died, he'd be pissed because he knew he just lost 3k exp and had no way to come back in and fudge the group up. Death penalties were an artificial way to get most people to behave in a group play game and play by social norms.
Without it in games, people generally do what they want without fear of a consequence. I really think this is why FFXI was overall (not in every case) more populated by mature individuals at much higher levels than any other MMO I've played.
"TO MICHAEL!"
There definitely needs to be a penalty for dying, I don't think anyone is in disagreement there. As for the 'level down' system, I hated that, working hard to gain a level and then losing it was very demoralizing. Levels to me were like milestones and once you've achieved something I don't think it should be taken away. I agree with losing experience but I don't think you should actually be able to drop a level.
I think that FFXI does it just about right. But in an effort to generate discussion... what about this: What if you lost all experience points for that level upon death, No deleveling you couldnt lose your level but you just lost everything you have gained for that level. Would that work for ya? Its still a high penalty but you get to keep your level.
that would mean that people who just lvled would be careless with the game.
Personally, I don't even think the game should have any sort of XP penalties at death. But if they do, no more leveling down. That had to be one of the WORST features ever to be in an MMO.
Losing experience doesn't make sense to me, as in how can you possibly lose experience unless you have some sort of brain damage? ha I know it's a fantasy reality but just always seemed odd to me. I agree that there should be a death penalty of some sort to add that element of danger and risk that means more excitment, but lvl down or whatever the equivilent would be for the non-lvl based system, sounds bad to me. I think Vanguard came up with a sort of compromise where they had "experience debt" instead of lvl loss.
I'll disagree with this part.
I think there was a point to the penalty, more specifically to make sure that people played well within groups.
There is absolutely nothing learned differently by losing a level that can't be learned with a different, yet still harsh death penalty. Losing a good deal of experience, and perhaps adding something else on top of it, is more than enough to get people to think, "Hey, I should probably pay more attention and stop sucking!"
You're going to learn to play well in groups as you play the game, if you actually try hard enough to learn. In a game like FFXI, experience loss in itself could mean a couple hours of work was just lost. Hell, I say even have the exp loss go into the negatives if you die with very little xp gained into that level so far... you don't lose the level, but you'll have to gain that much more xp.
But in the end, this is all just opinion. Nothing I say will change the mind of someone who enjoys the current system, and vice versa.
I'll disagree with this part.
I think there was a point to the penalty, more specifically to make sure that people played well within groups.
You're going to learn to play well in groups as you play the game, if you actually try hard enough to learn.
Nothing I say will change the mind of someone who enjoys the current system, and vice versa.
Agreed on both points and that's the problem. People TRYING enough to learn.
The experience loss wasn't for the benefit of those who already knew or was capable of learning to play well in groups and foster the community through team play. It was put in there for the individuals who didn't, soloed while in a group and also to deter others from messing around with the grouping dynamic. I can recall numerous people who died getting on chat and "F this game! It sucks! I just delevled over a stupid lagspike! I'm never coming back to this boring ass game! Seeya losers!" or similar.
Everyone knows FFXI had probably one of the most mature audiences in most any MMO, while at the same time other games cried about any type of penalty at all. Those games also coincidentally had lots of people who ruined their communities unlike FFXI.
But again, I do agree that you nor I will ever see the other's point and necessity (or lack of) a death penalty.
"TO MICHAEL!"
I love being able to level down. Not only does it add some excitement and risk but it punishes poor play and planning. If one gets new equipment simply wait a little bit before selling old equipment.
Delevel belongs in the game. Now don't get me wrong I hate experiencing it but there's already so many games out there with minimal death penalties. Delevel & XP Loss imho is what made the high level players in FFXI more skilled than the high level players in most other MMO I played.
Your initial complaint was that as soon as you level up, you immediately sell your old gear. Then if you die, you're stuck w/ all this gear that you can't equip.
I apologize for sounding harsh but if you know the penalties and refust to adjust your playstyle a little, why is it the game's fault? Instead of waiting for the "DING" of leveling to gear up, why not continue gaining some XP?? I'm not saying that you gain half of the next level but give yourself a little wiggle room so that you can die once or twice.
Or ...................... after you just leveled, you can be more cautious right after you leveled up. Or you can make the sacrifice & give up some inventory slots & walk with two sets of armor. You wouldn't need 2 sets of armor for the whole game, only just after leveling & you feel you can survive the death penalty.
Hmmmmmm....I reccomend Perma death.....then all you "Hardcore" players will not want to be so hardcore :P Or maybe like a "Your dead for two days, logout now" :P
Does anyone agree this would teach people to not die?
Or maybe a option that lets you select between Perma Death and some hefty 1 hour -100 to all stats aura, that also affects nearby players, making everyone avoid your failness for an hour....
Was just trying to think of the harshest ways that a non-XP game could penalize you >.<
--Custom Rig: Pyraxis---
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Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz
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I'll make a deal with you.
When you've gotten your fourth maxed character, gotten at least two maxed crafting levels and have completed Sea, Sky and the rest like most of us "hardcore" players have... then we'll start take "recommendations" from someone who's played FFXI for under four months. Feel free keep asking for advice on which class to play for the greatest bang for the buck like you were a couple months ago on this site.
Until then, please keep asking in forums where in game is the best places to take your Lv40 Dragoon, and leave the critical gaming decisions to people who already know the benefit, mmmkay?
Only trying to help you along in game through the death penalty already enabled.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Bottom Line:
Smart people don't sell their gear right way. Especially in a game where you can level down. I think a "duh" would be approprate here.
I think we're going to have a lot of disappointed people when they realize 14 will cater to the WoW generation. Get over the hardcore, its not going to be like 11 at the start. If it is then you will be very happy, but right now going on what theyve said 'its not going to be like 11, its going to be friendly and fun' you are just setting yourselves up for a fall. I expect everything to be like WoW, then when there is a break from the norm, its pleasant. However SE have learnt, and crucially, they like money. It isnt going to be hardcore
Playing polished, lag free, feature complete games is carebear. Whining about a game you hate but still play is hardcore man!
Which hits home more ... losing 1500 exp or losing 1500 exp and losing your level.
I think those hoping for / expecting a WoW clone will be just as disappointed as those hoping for FFXI v2.0.
While I'm sure they've learned from WoW, and will take away some ideas that work for a FF game, it won't be a WoW clone.
If I may make a few guesses as to what they'll add from other games:
1.a Making quest NPC's easier to find. (Perhaps even the now common yellow "!")
1.b Warhammer style quest tracking.
2. Balancing many (if not most) missions and quests for solo play. (Though group players will be able to complete earlier, and thus 'grow' their characters at a faster pace. Apparently missions/quests will be important for character 'growth.')
3. More instancing. Can't say what kind. Likely most creatures that people really want to kill will be spawned by items or instanced. Fewer best-in-slot items from "world" bosses on long timers.
These are all GUESSES. I know just as much as the next guy. (Which is nothing.) Feel free to disagree, I'm not saying all of these changes are GOOD. I'm just guessing as to what they will change.
< sarcasm >
Oh yes, I definitely enjoy a game where I spend hours just to level--- just to die and lose the ability to wear the gear I've been saving up. Why? Because I'm stubborn and I'm hardcore!
And y'know, the best rewards in life are when you sink hours of your life, attention, energy, into a game where the rewards are few and long ways away--- but that's what I'm paying for, right? Because I come home from a hard days work, just to know that in MMORPGs, life sucks just as bad as in life.
But no, life doesn't suck... its just me. I'm too hardcore for life to suck and constant messages of hope and peace in these awesome games make me continue to drain my existence for prizes of Chocobos and people who share my lack of social integrity!
FFXI.
< / sarcasm >
I'll make a deal with you.
When you've gotten your fourth maxed character, gotten at least two maxed crafting levels and have completed Sea, Sky and the rest like most of us "hardcore" players have... then we'll start take "recommendations" from someone who's played FFXI for under four months. Feel free keep asking for advice on which class to play for the greatest bang for the buck like you were a couple months ago on this site.
Until then, please keep asking in forums where in game is the best places to take your Lv40 Dragoon, and leave the critical gaming decisions to people who already know the benefit, mmmkay?
Only trying to help you along in game through the death penalty already enabled.
??? I forgot I played that game >.< I gave it a couple days trial and decided it wasn't for me......by the way I was being sarcastic.....trying to hint that its funny people wanted a death penalty....cause you know....most "normal" people don't "like" being punished :P Or atleast I was under that impression.....or are those people who want a death penalty just full of Ego and think they won't ever ever die.
--Custom Rig: Pyraxis---
NZXT Phantom 410 Case
Intel Core i5-4690 Processor - Quad Core, 6MB Smart Cache, 3.5GHz
Asus Sabertooth Z87 Motherboard
Asus GeForce GTX 760 Video Card - 2GB GDDR5, PCI-Express 3.0
Kingston HyperX Fury Blue 16GB