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Why don't you raid?
SomeOldBloke
Member UncommonPosts: 2,167
I used too a couple of years ago but I now lack the patience. Getting 25-40 people through a raid is an act of futility. You always have 3-4 people afk without telling the raid leader - attending kids/babies, gone for a smoke or top up the Jack Danials - 2-4 other are constantly dueling and not paying attention and 3-4 more either can't follow simple instructions or don't know how to play there class. You always get people who turn up late which means the raid start late resulting in people who need to finsih by a certain time leave early. People never brings consumables (pootions/elixirs/buff food), rangers/hunters forget arrows or bullets or they have there pet on aggressive and agro the whole dungeon.
So, why don't you raid anymore?
Comments
I really just want to quote you and leave, but you forgot to add that it is boring as hell.
all the reasons above + I hate mmo players in general. (I thank wow for this)
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Raid dungeons are only fun 1 time, but game mechanics always force you to return over and over and over and over again. It's pointless.
There needs to be much more dynamic content added to the current systems.
I don't have the time or available attention necessary to be a good raid member, so I don't inflct myself on raids.
You're right, i forgot to add that it's a grind and become a second job.
I like to take my time with things, go at my own pace, read quest text, change my plans in mid-stride if something else occurs to me, et cetera. Raid groups, even normal groups, tend to be very results-oriented; they want to get the prize as quickly as possible, with the fewest disruptions possible. Plus, while I'm almost always a member of a guild/kin/corp/organization in whatever MMO I play, and while I also tend to be very chatty on the guild channel, I prefer doing the combat stuff myself. My real life involves a lot of dependency on other people (I work in a hospital), and logging into an MMO gives me an opportunity to do things for myself, by myself, in a world that's always there and always changing.
Also, the older I get, the less I find I have in common with the majority of people I encounter in MMOs. I'm sort of old school, but not in the "I like hardcore pve/pvp!" way; I'm old school in the "Hey you kids, get off my lawn!!!" way. I appreciate good spelling, I frown upon excessive swearing, I expect a degree of courtesy, I dislike self-entitlement. Either the world has leapt beyond me socially, or I've aged beyond the point of being relevant. Either way, I'm usually happier when I'm just out and about, minding my own business, occasionally crafting stuff up for guildmates. Unfortunately, that means I'm pretty much relegated to being a virtual tourist (moving from one game to another), as there aren't many titles out there with solo-oriented endgames. That's the way the bee bumbles.
All of the reasons mentioned by the OP, but here's another I rarely see mentioned:
When I was raiding in Wow, most of the boss fights were like a bunch of people playing Dance Revolution. Seriously. "You stand here, and when this bar turns green, everyone move to the right. And then when the boss flashes, everyone move to the edge of the room...."
The first time I saw this, I was like WTF?! This is what qualifies for a boss encounter? Where's the opportunity for on-your-feet thinking? For different tactics to accomplish the same goal? Nope. It's all "Put your feet on the faded marks in the ground and step in exactly the same places that everyone else did". My god, they couldn't have made it more boring it they'd tried.
Also, the trash mobs. I remember going through so many raids where the plan was "OK, we have 20 minutes of trash to wade through, then we get to boss A. Then another 15 minutes of trash to get to boss B." Translation: do a bunch of boring stuff that not one person in the group wants to do, to get to the Dance Revolution encounter.
Wow. Just wow. And raiders think that this stuff deserves top quality gear cause it's "hard".
There's no raiding in GW, the biggest a group can get is 12 man. Otherwise I agree with you, getting all together and then keeping their attention sucks.
I refrained from raiding in a few MMO's cuz i'm not group-centric. In Vanguard I decided to give it a try. It was fun for about a week. by the end of a month I had over 300 hours into raiding and know what I got for loot... nothin..
I already had the best of everything I could get solo so I gave all my crap away and unsubbed..
Easy, it's boring.
There's no challenge.
My character is reduced to standing in the back row far from the action and pushing ONE button whenever I am told to. The coordination may be challenging, but the actual raiding is mind numbing. Anyone from day 1 can raid. You don't even have to know how to play the game. You just need to know how to move and what button the leader wants you to push. Raiding is just a time sink. A really, really, really boring time sink. I want to be a player, not a puppet on a string.
Raiding is like voting. One person isn't going to make a difference.
I also find it very boring.
I do sometimes, but it is usually only if Im online and a group in which I know someone misses a dirge.
I don't have time to spend so many hours in front of the computer to RAID on a regular base. Computer games can be fun, but I already got a work and don't have time for a second, unpaid job. If I was unemployed or had a lot more time on my hands I might do it but right now I feel like I am wasting enough time in front of my computer as it is.
Besides most raiding guilds raids on weekends and I rather be at the pub with my friends, or play a board game or something, weekends is the only time I really can spend with my friends since I work odd hours. So I usually just group and stuff, but if I am online and get invited I often go for it.
I like grouping for normal content. Just logging in and hooking up with some people when I feel like it. Leaving when I'm tired of it. Dealing with people as equals. Having fun. Unfortunately that sort of thing no longer really exists. Now the choices are solo or raid and so little normal grouping that I think most people have forgotten (or never knew) what it is and tend to confuse it with raiding when someone talks about it.
Raiding is a completely different thing and I have never like it. Raiding means logging in to play according to a pre-arranged schedule. It means you are required to play X number of hours and you can't just stop when you feel like it. It means you are required to attended Y number of raids if you want any rewards. It usually means you have to join a raiding guild. It means you are not an equal in a group of equals, you are a servant taking orders from your master. It means a very stilted and choreographed routine that leaves no room for thinking on your feet or, dare I say it, fun. It means all sorts of tedious crap and waiting around and herding cats and in the end a gameplay experience which is actually less entertaining than the first rat you killed at level one. And it means repeating this tedious, headache inducing crap ad infinitum.
No thanks.
In a really hard RAID it does. One guy mess up and you die, EQ2 have a few raids like that. Of course the raid only have place for certain classes then.
But you have probably just played the easy ones or j8ust played Wow.
The boring part however is a different thing, that is a good reason not to play them.
This is why I only raid with good players and serious gamers.
And also why I like 10 person so much better then 25 or 40.
I spent a good year of my life in 40 person dungeons, even longer in 25... no thanks.
It's boring, and there's no real motivation for doing it. I would kind of like to see all the content games have to offer, but what it comes down to is being more of a pain than it's worth, for a few new sights and lines from NPCs.
In raid centric games, I'll usually just make alts and try to explore everything, once I get bored of that, I move on. I don't find any pleasure in grinding rep, gold, etc. My favorite aspect in class based games is developing my character, not his gear.
All of that is fine with 6-8 players in a group. It's actually quite fun, IMO. I don't mind if I"M in a group, and someone has to let the dog out. Big deal that takes 5 minutes, and I"m not in a god awful rush to do anything in an MMORPG.
But once you get to 25-40 people, it's not fun anymore.
I think you left out the politics of raiding. That's not fun either.
I raided in WoW before BC came out and after my guild cleared BWL, I couldn't take it anymore. It's boring, time consuming, unrewarding and it does not make me feel valuable or even needed. Except for one time when I was the only rogue who was still alive during the Magmaddar fight. But then the item that dropped went to a fury warrior.
Anyway, I don't mind doing it once or twice, just to learn the ropes and see the content but raiding has become the end-game in MMOs. Which I don't agree with.
Married, full time job with an immense amount of overtime, married, 4 daughters ranging from 15-4 (and the 15 thinks she is 25), active member of church, and did I mention married?
All that plus I got tired of scheduling my leisure time. My day is already stuffed full with places I have to be by certain times and things I have to do. I don't want that my leisure time to feel like things I have to do. Well at least not anymore.
I did raid 5 days a week for years. 3 days for another year.
After that I stopped it, I cant take it anymore havning no free time at all just raiding raiding raiding.
Yup youve said it all, i would add the fact that the dictator (guild leaders) allotting the drops as he/she sees fit is another thing i find a bit overbearing. My grandson recently told of winning the roll on something but not getting it as the raid leader decided someone else would get it. Then he kid had the gall to ask me why i dont raid lol.
Raids are fun when I am visiting it for the first time. I also like the socialization that comes along with it, usually. What I really dislike about raids in modern MMOs is the huge emphasis on loot. You need certain loot to go in there, and you need certain loot to move on afterwards. Kinda pointless in my opinion as gear plays such a minor role to me personally. I gave up on raiding after awhile, because I would always pass on the loot unless nobody else wanted it. Then come to find out I was "gimp". Boo hoo. You guys can have it.
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Just reading some of the replies here makes me wonder what guilds/games people come from. I have lead a raid guild in every game ive played as in eq/ eq2/wow etc. I cant help but think most of the replies here are from people in mid to low tier guilds.
In my opinion, I equate guilds to jobs. Sure if your in a 25k a year job washing dishes then yea, that sucks. If your in a 125k a year job working with a team and accomplishing goals then you will be more fulfilled there.
Each guild and its structure is different and all have different ways to accomplish goals. You just have to find the one best suited for you. I enjoy raiding and unlike some posters here, we dont read the strats after they are posted. We write them. Theres a difference in the game between being a leader and a follower. Followers tend to get bored easily and give up. Leaders keep slogging along and in the end usually get the job done.
In my experience, most people look up the farthest progressed guild on thier server and try to join it hoping for easy loots with little involvement or dedication. Those are the people that burn out quick and your always having to replace them. Dont do this and your raiding experience will be better not only for you but the guild.
In closing, its up to you to get the most out of raiding. You make it fun or not.
I find raiding to be boring, repetitive, predictable and a non-stop drama festival. Every time I join a raid, I get about half way through and wish I could just leave because I'm bored out of my mind. To me, the only difference between killing Hogger and any end-game raid boss is the amount of time it takes and the level of pathetic-assed drama that ensues.
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