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World of Warcraft: Semantics and Tiered Rewards
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com World of Warcaraft Correspondent Robert Duckworth writes this look at Skill vs hardcore and how tiered rewards may not be the wisest move on Blizzard's part.
Casual is to Hardcore, as a Banana is to ...
The arguments between Casual and Hardcore players can touch on almost any facet of the game. It is almost impossible to draw a line anymore with how many players have perceived themselves as more or less based on their personal ideals. Some players can spend eight hours a day and never enter a raid setting, but whether or not that is considered Hardcore is personal opinion. Other players are considered hardcore when they spend less than 12 hours a week, but due to their surroundings and happenstance, are on the near bleeding edge of content. They are not cutting themselves on it and gushing like the top of the top, but they plug along and make larger raid progress in a week than most guilds make in a month. That does not sound Hardcore at all compared to the first example, but many players would like to call themselves such. All this confusion came about due to the stigma associated with various words, and then the impossibility of such a large community agreeing on anything over the internet: Elitist, Hardcore, No Life, Skilled, Basement Dweller, Window Licker, Pro, Casual, Semi-Casual; the list goes on, most of them not the nicest of terms.
;)
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
I could not possibly agree more with this article... I am in a raiding guild that "officially" raids 25-man content 9 hours a week. We make pretty good progress for a small guild, and I like to say, we may not be first or fastest, but we get things done, in our way and in our time. Ever since they first started with this nonsense of removing rewards from the game, I have really begun to realize how disillusioned with WoW I have become. The odds of them changing this mindset, no matter how wrong it is or detrimental to 95% of the player base it is, is very slim... and that is unfortunate, because I am just waiting for that one MMOG to come out that will finally get me away from WoW for good, and these sorts of design decisions are just going to make that day that much easier...
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"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
Blizzard's excuse is that they dont want those rewards to be trivialized. What I understand by this philosophy is this: those first 5% are the only ones who deserve it, not because they made it there, but because they made it first. And to those 5%, its not enough to have been the first, they dont want anyone else to have them. Would it really be a bad thing if everyone that wanted a Zul'Aman Bear actually got one 6 months later? would that make their e-peen any smaller?
Another thing I dont agree with is the constant changing of the game. Blizzard's excuse is using words like 'balance', 'fixing bugs', etc. But I think that is BS. Imagine if you were forced to eat your meals with a different kind of cutlery every day. Every day you had to learn to use a new kind just because you were smart enough to find out how to use the previous set of cutlery efficiently. This is how Blizzard rewards creativity. Someone might say that the game will stagnate if everything is left as it is, but no one ever gives players' the chance to come with their own solutions. No, Blizzard enters the playground and changes everything.
When the cutlery works, and players learn how to use them, Blizzard changes them. When the cutlery IS in fact broken, when do they "fix" it? When a paladin uses Divine Shield and the warlock cant face roll his way out of it.
This might come out as a bit of a bitter rant, but I still have fond memories of WoW. And as long as I keep WoW in the past, im not really bitter about it.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
FINALLY a thread with some sense, and for those that think Blizzard is so great and godly, you best sit down and figure out how Blizzard are going to make it possible to lock your XP at lvl 60 but yet have not found a way to allow lvl 60 players to obtain Tier 3 Gear since they moved Xaxx to Northrend and it now requires lvl 80 to run Naxx and as well the Argent Dawn Quest items no longer drop in Naxx and no where else for that matter making this content dead and forgotten about.
Blizzard has been doing this routine ever since TBC was released, every quarter it goes:
Feb - New X-Pak, massive lag, patches and server downtime.
May- More rep grinding content added to keep players occupied.
August - more sloppy 10-25 content that has nothing to do with Warcraft it is just empty rep filler to occupy players
Nov - Sneak peaks of an upcoming x-pack and more tinkering with instance settings and a few events to keep players occupied.
As for earning anything in the game anymore. NOONE earns anything anymore sure times change but when a company makes items so easy to obtain that you can buy them with badges and not having to have any pre-req play work done, it is no matter E-bay is so popular, anyone can buy a toon and be [Epic] Geared and be in the top 5%.
Blizzard really needs to learn that eventually the masses will realize they are re-hashing the same old content over and over again with a fresh coat of paint and there is really never anything new added to the game. Not even the Naxx Tier7 is is the same Tier 3 gear from the old Naxx with a new color and new stats.
...so they made everything a competition? Thats just sad its like...a monthly fee to compete for something you'll most likely never get?! You might as well go to Vegas. Atleast you'll get free drinks while your wasting your cash.
I always thought raiding and the whole competetive bit was silly but I had no idea Blizz went this far ... damn sad how can people put up with that? I mean atleast before there was always the chance to have X item if you put the hours in and didnt' mind rinse and repeat but now?
Sad no wonder their numbers are supposedly falling.
If you're comparing these chances to Vegas....you've obviously never been to Vegas. Furthermore, with only 15 bucks in Vegas....you damn well better hope you win on ONE hand of BlackJack, or a few rolls on a penny machine, because that is ALL that 15 bucks is going to get you in Vegas.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Argent Dawn rep items still drop in the old world instances, as well as from mobs in WPL and EPL, so I'm not sure where you came up with that.... O.o
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
If you're comparing these chances to Vegas....you've obviously never been to Vegas. Furthermore, with only 15 bucks in Vegas....you damn well better hope you win on ONE hand of BlackJack, or a few rolls on a penny machine, because that is ALL that 15 bucks is going to get you in Vegas.
Actually I have been to vegas and the chances to Win there are far higher. Hey for 10 bucks i won 200 dollars on a slot machine so bite me. Atleast in Vegas the chance to win is ALWAYS there.
The idea your paying 15 dollars a month to slog through some content and NEVER see a particular reward is ludacris and a greedy carrot scheme I thought beneath Blizzard. I'd considered for months nwo about coming back but this turns me away completely. Its hard enough trying to get the gear or a chance at the gear depending on what greedy raid leader you go with but to NEVER get the chance? Thats just Bull Crap.
MMORPS aren't supposed to be a contest its one thing whent hey have their little tournaments etc but making the whole end game that way? thats just BS.
Well written article, and I may not necessarliy agree with it all I don't disagree with it either, being a veteran of SWG I can really appreciate the idea of not everyone being able to obtain everything, example: Jedi.
Now my previous example of course was later given in and everyone could just roll one eventually, one of the biggest downfalls of the game in my opinon, however in WoW things are a bit different. The content is always evolving, new "Jedi" are being made in every major patch, we are also not dealing with an alpha class being released we are dealing with basically vanity items, a mount and a title, as far as the raid content goes the 2v2 thing is total crap 2 on 2 should remain viable for rewards, grant it i dont even hit arenas or pvp but I don't see any reason to exclude 2v2 from rewards.
The mount and title is a double-edged sword since it does not provide any major bonuses to your stats or anything it is not something "needed" to compete, it is simply a vanity item saying hey check out my mount I got and you can't have. It makes other players envious and I think that is the whole point. Could this be accomplished just with a title? Sure, but titles are boring a Mount is noticeable. So the people who did bust their ass to earn this first have their special mount and others can't. To me, and I am in a guild that is far from a "hardcored" or "skilled" raiding guild, the idea of stuff I can't have is both infuriating and motivating.
If just everyone was able to work towards something and get it, I wouldn't want it so much. That's just me. There is no satisfying everyone and on any issue at least 2 sides of an arguement exist as "right" and "right".
I dont see how anyone can find that motivating to pay 15 dollars a month for stuff you might never achieve or ever get to see. Atleast with Jedi it was from a lore perspective and not a greedy carrot scheme to keep people jumping in hoops. THere's no reason people shouldn't have a chance at the non vanity related items equally for ever. Not even EQ1 pulled that sort of stuff atleast in EQ1 your chances merely diminished over time due to lack of community support to that area so there were always those elite few that had every peice while most everyone else had none or only peices of X gear from X raid boss.
Doing it by Dev Design is just plain wrong. You should still feel motivated to get the gear knowing that MOST of the population might still never see it during your 'lifetime' with that gear since you'll simply move on to the next tier adn the next tier before the rest of the population achieves that first or even second tier.
Your Jedi example doesn't really apply too much here. If I may change it up a bit to make more sense to the way WoW works though I think it will be a wonderful example. In early SWG Jedi's were from my understanding an earned class that was hard to get and not everyone could play one. Being a Jedi was the envy of other players and a great accomplishment. That's all well and good, anyone could be a Jedi, but you had to work hard and play right to become one. Now let's say all the sudden the Jedi population reaches (for purposes of small numbers) 100 people on the server. All the sudden no one can become a Jedi any more. That's it, the number of Jedi's possible on that server is capped and the chance for anyone else to ever get to play that class or get anything rewarding from it is gone. That's what it's like in WoW, sure the content is still there, but what's the point in playing it when theres no reward for it? Personally, I'd rather not play a game where my 3-4 months of gearing up my character is whiped out 4 times a year or so whenever they decide to add some new instance with a upgraded piece of gear for every slot.
Lurke® Circa 2004
Enjoyed your article.
I am one of those disillusioned persons. Most of my time in WoW, I have been a part of that 5% that raids the top-tier content. I have not been a fan of PvP since they nerfed original AVs in classic WoW. I have done some BGs, arenas etc., but really never focused on it as hardcore as I have done with raiding.
While I might consider myself disillusioned, I have still played WoW on and off since the US closed beta until fairly recently. I kept playing while knowing the inherent problems that changes in WoW has brought forward. Gradual change from one type of game to another is hard to miss, if you have played WoW from the start. The game really is quite different from what it was and many changes have not been for the better, at least from my perspective, which no doubt is somewhat biased due to nostalgia.
I particulary like how the article describes the reward issue. I never liked how they handled the PvP gear vs. PvE gear issue in the first place. Nor did I really like the whole season approach to it. I never considered raid gear as a part of seasons before, but I can see how that distinction is really easily made now.
Taking away the illusion of progression truly is probably the best way to describe why I consider classic WoW superior to both TBC and WoTLK. There should be no illusion left once you have gone through the cycle of seasons few times, regardless what you call the gearing up process. However, to the more casual players, which have limited access to higher end content, like mentioned in the article, I think the illusion still persists.
Lastly, about dungeons and raids, design since TBC has been radically simplified. Just because people liked the design concept of Dire Maul does not mean that huge dungeons like BRD did not have a superior design. When most dungeons in both TBC and WoTLK follow the same linear design with 2-4 boss encounters, it really becomes boring, regardless on how much eye candy you try to hide your design behind. And unfortunately, it is not only dungeons that follow this design, but raids and boss encounters as well. It is almost like Blizzard developers and designers simply do not dare to take risks, but adopt the safest, most sterile and boring road that we have already repeated over and over again for the last few years.
What kept me playing is the fact that it is a pop-culture phenomenom and nothing as polished has come alonmg to take significant number of subcribers away from it. Oh and have tried to hop from one MMO to another. And while my friends insisted on playing WoWit, I had to as well.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
All carrots on sticks. You finally get the carrot, blizzard says "look guys! new carrot!." All the while, we're not paying attention to the money falling out of our pockets.
I admit, I had some good times in WoW, and I mostly just played because it was nice to have other players around everywhere I whent. Those days are over though, and I can't even stomach the idea of playing WoW again. The way they cater to the "elite few" is disgusting on monumental levels. They try to please everyone else by making raids easier... where does that leave people that don't like/want to raid? Not competing in PvP, the hardcore raiders stroll in and steamroll with their shiny purples. After exploring the world that's not rewarding to explorers, and doing lots of quests, I'm left with pretty much doing boring ass 5 mans that I don't want to look at beyond the 3rd-5th time. If I wanted to run the same shit over and over again, I'd start raiding.
I'll be saving my most sinister laugh for the day WoW finally dies, even though everyone will flock to their next MMO like moths to a flame.
Goodbye WoW, may I never have to look at your fugly face again.
Btw, I'm not bitter about it or anything
This article is spot-on. The WOW community needs to get over itself, quit trying to marginalize content they aren't interested in, and start coming together to demand better game design from the folks they are paying money to.
But that would require everyone to deflate the ego somewhat. Fat chance that's gonna happen...
Argent Dawn rep items still drop in the old world instances, as well as from mobs in WPL and EPL, so I'm not sure where you came up with that.... O.o
if you actually had played this game for any length of time you would know the items required for the Tier3 set were drops from mobs in Naxx when it was a lvl 60 40-man raid, since naxx was moved the quest items from the Argent Dawn do not drop in Naxx and you cannot get them. You mark me for something you obviously have no idea about.
The quest states:
"Commander Eligor Dawnbringer at Light's Hope Chapel in the Eastern Plaguelands will make a Redemption Headpiece if you bring him the following:
1 Desecrated Headpiece, 15 Wartorn Plate Scraps, 5 Arcanite Bars and 2 Cured Rugged Hides.
Desecrated Headpiece: 0/1
Wartorn Plate Scrap: 0/15
Arcanite Bar: 0/5
Cured Rugged Hide: 0/2
You will find the remnants of our fallen heroes on the corpses of the Lords of Naxxramas. Bring those desecrated keepsakes to me along with wartorn plate scraps and crafting materials capable of revitalizing the cursed armor and I shall craft a fine piece of armor for you."
So where do 1 Desecrated Headpiece, 15 Wartorn Plate Scraps drop in EPL if ""Argent Dawn rep items still drop in the old world instances, as well as from mobs in WPL and EPL""?
As I stated Blizzard ditched this armour set and left it with no way for players to be able to optain it anymore.
Sounds like what EQ did. Although, everyone pays the same most people are locked out of content and rewards. Its complete BS, and why I don't play games they don't reward people based on time invested(impossible to find nowadays).
In WoW and EQ, a very small minority set the pace for everyone. Why do I play MMOs? To escape that sort of rat race that is in the real world. It has no business in my gaming atmosphere.
Your last sentence tells the story of what I wish MMOs would deal with. I don't want a rat race in my video games. In single player games the rat race doesn't exist. You can enjoy ALL of the game at your own pace. Why does this have to become a real life simulator in an MMO?
Is it really so bad to remove the rat race?
Well said brostyn, well said.
Well, call it a rat race or competition or what ever, it is actually one of the many reasons why many play multiplayer games instead of single player games. Getting to play against human opponents is the salt of multiplayer experience for many of us.
Competition gives incentives for self-improvement whether on individual or organisational levels. Most MMORPGs have been designed so that the goal is to improve your avatars.
Competing for rewards or even recognition also adds excitement and suspense to games. When against other human opponent, healthy competition gives many of us doses of adrenaline that makes the game ever more exciting and thus more entertaining. Here is a description that applies also here (emphasis added):
"The competitive nature of sports distinguishes it from many other forms of entertainment performances. It is the experience of suspense arising from the possibility of alternative outcomes to a competitive sporting event that makes it this form of entertainment so compelling to spectators." - Handbook of consumeer psychology
All that said, some people go great lenghts in their life to avoid any form of competition. It is perfectly normal. However, does that give credibility to the argument that games should be designed their segment in mind? Looking at the history of games, most of them are competitive in their very nature. If human psychology did not like competition, most games would be quite diffferent forms of entertainment.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Aye - that's how I feel as well. I don't play games to compete with others. Having my name on the high-score list never meant a thing to me back in the days of arcade games and being the first to reach or do something in an MMO is not something I aim for. I play games for fun and to "compete" with myself in various ways by setting reasonable goals to keep me focused. In particular, I use MMOs when I want to relax and see something evolve over a long period of time. When I want to use my skills, I mainly play flight sims with all the bells and whistles.
Unfortunately, it seems that WoW is moving in a direction that I personally don't agree with. That article really helped to confirm my fears. Ever since they introduced the arena back in TBC, a pattern started evolving. The whole achievement system was a dead giveaway that they wanted to take things further and not just limit it to competitive PvP. Raiding now seems to follow a similar seasonal pattern as the article points out and it has been mentioned quite a few times by Blizzard that they're looking into ways where people can individually distinguish themselves in BGs so that those people can possibly achieve rewards that the average BG player who just follows the zerg to farm honor won't be able to get.
As I said, I don't like the way things are going, but I can ignore them to a certain extend as long as I'm having fun with the content and rewards available to me. Where things start to break down in my humble opinion, is the way it's affecting the community. This whole esport approach just seems to bring out the worst in some people. The community in WoW was never good to begin with, but I'm really starting to feel a split between the have and have-not... and I'm not just talking gear here.
People have left my guild because the person wanted to do a raid achievement while the rest just wanted to have a good time. I've been in groups that wiped and then disbanded because someone got the bright idea that he wanted to go for a certain achievement which people weren't prepared or geared for. I've seen people in BGs cap graveyards they shouldn't (thereby making the experience miserable for some) and do other stupid things because they wanted an achievement... or endlessly moan in BG chat because they didn't get an achievement because the team was too slow. Oh and let's not forget "looking for more X to do raid Y - must have achievement".
And that's just the achievement system.
I could go on, but I think I got my point across and I don't want this to sound anymore like a wall'o'text rantfest than it already is.
If people like this style that Blizzard is switching to, good for them and I hope it'll be worth it for Blizzard in the end. I can live happily without WoW being part of my life. I'm only still playing it because I can't let go of my tauren druid and because it's fun to log in and do a BG or two. What worries me though, is how other MMO developers tend to endlessly copy WoW. Just yesterday I decided to give EQ2 a shot since I haven't touched it in 2 years and figured it might be cool to try out the new things, only to learn that SOE is working on implementing an achievement system that sounds eerily similar to the one in WoW. Oh dear. Well, at least it's going to be interesting to see how that turns out, if nothing else
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
I agree with this article 100%, this whole tiered system and removing rewards has really gone to far. Not only that, once you do finally get your gear from raiding/pvp its than obsolete 3-4 months later. So you really dont get to enjoy what you worked so hard for, because its now replaced with newer season of gear. And the achievement system is a complete joke. In my opinion that system has only made it harder for new lvl 80s to obtain gear. Because it seems every time someone runs a raid or heroic they are aiming at some stupid achievement.
If you didnt have Wrath the first few months of release were everyone was pretty much on the same lvl, you're pretty much screwed now. Because once you hit 80 noone wants you in their groups or raids because you are to undergeared. I always thought that heroics were there to get people geared for raiding kinda how Strat,scholo, and BRD were in old school WoW. People would run those instances nonstop to get their dungeon sets before heading to MC and BWL and there were no dps meters.
Now that this achievement system is here if you are not pulling 2.5k-3k dps no one wants you in there heroics, because they are trying to get some stupid achievement and i wont even start on raid content, because with each new raid instance the dps requirements get even higher. I remember when the min dps requirement for Naxx was 1.6k now people want you putting out 2k for a 10 man Naxx, and if you are not outputting 3k you can forget about Ulduar
Which is all cool if you play multiplayer games because you want to compete. However, some of us play MMOs instead of single player games because we like to interact with real people rather than some AI NPC with scripted responses. Note I said interact, not compete. Oblivion is an awesome game, but it gets mighty lonely and predictable at times. With MMOs, anything can happen. One day I might find myself chilling out doing some quests, then bumping into a fellow adventurer who later becomes a good friend. The next day, I might get dragged into a raid totally unprepared because some good buddies need me and much prefer someone they know over some random dude. The following day I find myself crafting a set of armor for a guild member who really needs it because his account was hacked and his gear stripped. Things like that just don't happen in single player games... but tell me... does it sound like I'm playing MMOs to compete from what I just described?
Sure, competition might be an incentive to improve your character for some people. It doesn't have to be the case for everybody though, human psychology or not. Improving my character is a result of me playing through the content I can do at the stage my character is at. Completing that content usually leads to some improvment in my character which then opens up new content. In the end, I can look at my character and remember all the things I did in order to get to where I'm at. Those make for some great memories and entertaining stories ("dude, remember that one time where I accidentally tanked so and so with my fishing rod because I was in bear form and forgot to look at my weapon?").
Who am I competing against though? Am I suddenly trying to avoid competition by not being one of the first to reach a certain point or goal set by the developers? Or am I merely enjoying the ride?
I suppose I could go read a book or watch a movie as an alternative form of entertainment, but what if I like to make up my own adventures with the added randomness that sharing this experience with other people brings? Why the need to turn WoW into a sport? Are they afraid that it's the only way to keep people around? Lure people in by making it more casual in one way, then cater to human psychology by igniting that competitive spirit so people get caught up in the need for pixels and database entries to show off? Dunno, but it's beginning to sound awfully plausible to me. I hope I'm dead wrong though.
Oh, and btw - it's ironic that you mention games as being competitive by nature, thus implying that so should MMOs. MMOs and single player RPGs evolved from the traditional pen and paper RPG. The p'n'p RPG genre is unique in that it's not a competitive game. The players work together (or sometimes against each other for added hilarity) in order to overcome certain challenges set by the gamemaster. Seeing the story, world and the characters evolve and unfold is the reward and the point of the game. If you truly want, you could define criteria for winning (complete these quests), losing (don't die) and competing against your fellow adventurers (seeing the fighter duke it out with the wizard is always good for a laugh), but it has never been the objective of the game and I've never been part of an RPG campaign where that took place in any noticeable way.
Of course, computer based games are highly limited due to the nature of the technology and thus it's easier to focus on the parts that can easily be done, such as character advancement... but why the need to take it to the extreme and turn the one thing that honored the old principle into an indirect way of doing PvP?
Don't get me wrong though, it's cool that some people enjoy that. It would only be a true tragedy if nobody wanted that. I just personally don't get it, just as I'm sure some of the competitive players don't get my point of view either. Such is life. In a worst case scenario, I can always got back to what started it all... get out the dice and all... but frankly, MMOs are so darn convenient these days compared to the prep work, schedule arranging and transportation needed in getting people together, so of course it bugs me when I see MMOs turning into soulless competitive games where all people seem to care about is the latest tier of gear
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Bravo! Enjoyed this reading and am one that is loosing interest in WoW for those very reasons.
I used to do 2v2 in order to gear up as at the time was on a server that the time zone was not good for me to raid. Thus I missed out raiding in pre lich. Now I can raid but due to the pvp gear being available, or better gear, to only those that do BG's and areana it has given me no hope at earning points to get pvp gear now. I don't like doing all the BG's as many don't. I am a PvE player and pvp is just something to do sometimes. This aspect I see as Blizz forcing peeps to do PvP. I play on a PvE sever because I am not a PvP player. I know many that way.
The guild I am in now has done Naxx 10/20 till many just won't run it anymore which leaves those that need gear or want to do it stuck with pug groups or finding a guild that will. I have noticed many guilds are recruiting heavy on the sever I am on. My guild is one. I have also noticed the Naxx and even Ulduar pugs are not up as often and many times don't happen because can't get enough to fill them. Many guilds are looking to allying with others just so they can run a 25 man raid or even a ten. Peeps it seems are just loosing interest in the game and some aren't even hoping the next patch or even another expansion will make it better. As some have said they are looking for a game that they can play and enjoy and when they work for something they will get it once they have finally reached that achievement.
I agee this has become a race to get their first and those left behind will never get it. Why? Suppose it is just like some of the other things if your not the first your not the best so therefore they don't care.
Gikku
So what is the difference between Hardcore and Skilled? Hardcore players were about dedication. They would sit down and work at a problem until they solved it, they would beat their heads against the wall until the wall broke. There was no begging for change, things were the way they were and that was the end of it, you were supposed to shut up and deal. Ever since Blizzard injected the concept of Skill into WoW, the idea of Hardcore has been on the way out. No one wants to be known as the person who spends forever to do something, you want to be known as the person who accomplished it first and in the shortest amount of time due to your vast Skill. Probably not that surprising everyone considers themselves Skilled at one thing or another. Each person takes a look at their personal situation and determines that either the game is broken and needs to be fixed, or that the game is perfect and everyone else needs to learn to play. There is arena and there is raiding, that is where a lot of players like to call themselves Skilled. Then there is the rest of the game, where everyone else likes to think that they are skilled as well. Skill is a pretty worthless concept at this point in WoW, it has become over-saturated, much like the term Hardcore was at one point. Unfortunately, Blizzard continues to use Skill as the measuring stick of a players return value in their MMO.
Skill = Reward
Blizzard loves to reward Skill. Unfortunately this tiered reward system is very antagonizing for anyone except those at the top of the heap, and also nothing more than an illusion.
The amount of over generalization about all players makes this entire post pretty much garbage. Everyone thinks they are skilled, the system antagonizes everyone except the top few, no one this, everyone that. blah blah blah.
The actual point of the thread is overshadowed by the volume of generalizations trying to appeal to everyone who might have the slightest agreement to any of the points listed.
Believe it or not there are more than two types of players and the way this article is written fails to take that into consideration.
Where are the angry antagonized mobs of players you are speaking on behalf of?
Sorry snipped your post a lot to save room, as my answer is a short one.
There are many reasons why people play these games and I do not think that for many it is a single all encompassing reason.
Competition, social interaction, cooperation, character building etc. are all valid reasons to play these games and not mutually exclusive. I just feel contempt for those people who advocate that their way is the only right one.
I said that most games are not that all games are. There are pen and paper RPGs that are competitive, but many are cooperative. Board games come in many variants as well. MMORPGs are not pen and paper RPGs while they might hold some legacy from them.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I said that most games are not that all games are. There are pen and paper RPGs that are competitive, but many are cooperative. Board games come in many variants as well. MMORPGs are not pen and paper RPGs while they might hold some legacy from them.
Then we are basically in agreement. It wasn't quite the way your post came across to me at first though and maybe my post wasn't entirely clear in some ways either, so I'm glad you took the time to make your point and clarify things.
What bugs me about WoW however, is that Blizzard seems determined to make their way of playing their game the only way of playing the game. Or so it feels to me (people are free to disagree, of course). This is a shame since one play style, as you point out, does not have to exclude another. It just means spending more development time to think things through and work it out.
The more playstyles an MMO can support, the richer it becomes in my eyes. WoW, unfortunately, isn't going in that direction. Some might argue that it was never there to begin with... 40 man raids and PvE players destroying PvP players because of their raid gear was one such problem of play styles clashing in a way that should never have happened. But at least it felt like you could believe that it was the case because things weren't so clearly defined beyond the obvious leveling ladder. Dunno, maybe I'm just being nostalgic. Still, for a while it felt like things were on the right track before it went sour. But as I said in a previous post, I can sorta live with that loss, especially if it makes a large number of people happy. Again, what irks me is how other companies love to clone everything Blizzard comes up with, whether it's a colossal chunk of pure gold or a big stinking turd. Sure, copy clone the gold if you must, but... can we at least have a different variety of turd? Like dragon dung instead of lich crap or something?
As for MMOs not being pen and paper RPGs... very true. You're also right that you stated that most games are competitive. I wasn't being oblivious to that fact. I just felt the need to bring up pen and paper RPGs for people to see because they're sorta the odd one out when it comes to games in general, which makes things interesting from an evolutionary point of view where MMOs are concerned. It really shows how things have change over time from one style to the other. It may also help explain why some people prefer the cooperative style over the competitive style, since that's basically what you'll expect if you make the jump from pen and paper to MMOs like I did back in the days when my old RPG group died due to logistics and getting busy lifes.
Ah well... hopefully some company... at some point... will release an awesome MMO that has it all. Until then, I'll just have to hop back and forth as my mood and the development focus cycle changes. Just wish it didn't have to be so. That's all really.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
It is interesting to see WOW called a sport. I wonder when the "top players" will start getting salaries. Oh, wait, they won't. That is because WoW is not a sport, spectator or otherwise. It is a game that is played by some to "compete" and others to "escape". I see no reason for Blizzard to focus on rewarding ONLY those that play to compete. And only the first ones who do try to compete.
A lot of the comments and focus so far has been on how "unfair" these changes are to those at (or near) 80 and how they may never see some of these rewards, in spite of all the work. What about those people who are just now joining the game? Not only will they have no chance at some of the "old" rewards but they don't even have a chance at the current rewards. That is, if they have any life outside the game.
Blizzard is effectively punishing new players for not being involved from the start. IMO this is no way to draw in new players. If anything it is a way to ensure that new (competitive) players get upset and/or burned out real fast. Of course this will just make it easier for the top competitors to "win". But, they really don't need that boost do they? As a matter of fact I am willing to bet that a lot of the same people who were "first" to get any one reward are the same ones "first" for any other reward.
Also, the "bragging rights" that come with any given reward should diminish over time. (Just like a new car, after a year it is no longer the high end bragging point it was.) After all, there is always more "new" stuff coming along. (Almost once a year, as has been pointed out.) This is what should be driving the "top" competitors to go forward, the drive for "first again", not the drive for "only one" to get some reward.
This will also give those that play “casually” other things to work towards. Maybe they can start finding groups willing to run Zul, or BRD, or whatever. Not just for the achievement but for the “mount and title” rewards that are (again? still?) available. In a way this will also help those competitive players out there. After all there will be both more to compete against (me not you) and more to compete with (me and you).