Originally posted by sepher Would you prefer to live on welfare? Why or why not?
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
tbh i dont think many people want to work, since alot of people dont like their jobs. But thats life, you work to make money to afford bills. People who want to live off the government (AKA other people's taxes) check, are 1 of 2 kinds of people.
1: just got laid off, needs some support to help pay bills as this person finds another job
2: too lazy to work, and just plain doesnt want to work. Would rather sit at home and live off the bare essentials.
although there could be another option or 2 i'm missing, i'm tired, and thats all i can think of atm.
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Get rid of the current lot of politicians we have in D.C.
Vote in some Libertarian representatives that will actually keep the consideration of the American citizens in mind and who will do away with as many taxes and programs as is possible.
Learn what our country is about and then stick to it. America is about us depending on ourselves, not the federal government!!!
Originally posted by sepher Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves?
Actually I do not.
I see many folks who are happy Obama is in office because he will help with their mortgage, their medical, their this, and their that simply because they think they deserve it - they think they have a right. They have an "It's not fair attitude".
Originally posted by sepher Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves?
Actually I do not.
I see many folks who are happy Obama is in office because he will help with their mortgage, their medical, their this, and their that simply because they think they deserve it - they think they have a right. They have an "It's not fair attitude".
Many or most? Because my question was whether or not you felt the majority of Americas would rather work and support themselves the way you do.
I'm just trying to get a grasp of your perception of Americans at large. If your cynicism goes so far as to believe your preference to work and support yourself is a personal quality moreso than a given between any two random Americans. You pointed out your sister-in-law as a lazy-type. What about other relatives and friends around you? How does many or most figure into that?
Originally posted by sepher Would you prefer to live on welfare? Why or why not?
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
Originally posted by sepher Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves?
Actually I do not.
I see many folks who are happy Obama is in office because he will help with their mortgage, their medical, their this, and their that simply because they think they deserve it - they think they have a right. They have an "It's not fair attitude".
Many or most? Because my question was whether or not you felt the majority of Americas would rather work and support themselves the way you do.
I'm just trying to get a grasp of your perception of Americans at large. If your cynicism goes so far as to believe your preference to work and support yourself is a personal quality moreso than a given between any two random Americans. You pointed out your sister-in-law as a lazy-type. What about other relatives and friends around you? How does many or most figure into that?
Originally posted by sepher Would you prefer to live on welfare? Why or why not?
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Originally posted by sepher Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves?
Actually I do not.
I see many folks who are happy Obama is in office because he will help with their mortgage, their medical, their this, and their that simply because they think they deserve it - they think they have a right. They have an "It's not fair attitude".
Many or most? Because my question was whether or not you felt the majority of Americas would rather work and support themselves the way you do.
I'm just trying to get a grasp of your perception of Americans at large. If your cynicism goes so far as to believe your preference to work and support yourself is a personal quality moreso than a given between any two random Americans. You pointed out your sister-in-law as a lazy-type. What about other relatives and friends around you? How does many or most figure into that?
I will simplify and state most Obama supporters.
So even amongst your friends, family members and co-workers that voted for Obama, they'd prefer not to work and support themselves? Gotcha. That's a terrible suspicion to be carrying around.
Originally posted by sepher Would you prefer to live on welfare? Why or why not?
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Why would I work if I didn;t have to? If there was no need, why would I be doing that rather than be sitting on a white sand beach watching my cabana boys running around in loin cloths as I sip from my coconut. Hell yea I would rather be doing that... I mean if there was no " need" for me to work I would think I would be crazy to choose to work instead. LOL!
Most people work in the hopes that one day they will make enough to go live on their " beach". When the government plans on taking that money instead, what is the point of earning it anymore?
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Originally posted by sepher So even amongst your friends, family members and co-workers that voted for Obama, they'd prefer not to work and support themselves? Gotcha. That's a terrible suspicion to be carrying around.
I've not a single friend or family member that voted for him. And yes, many of the co-workers I see who voted for him have, simply put, a poor work ethic. And, look at my previous comments. Many, I said, are OK with working for what they have (rather what they can afford), but it is when they find they want something they cannot afford, they complain of unfairness - they wish for others to work and then simply claim it from them.
It's not a suspicion or a fact, it's simply an opinion based upon personal observation. Is that to say everyone who supports him is like that? No, but once again, my opinion can only be based upon observation.
Originally posted by sepher Would you prefer to live on welfare? Why or why not?
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Why would I work if I didn;t have to? If there was no need, why would I be doing that rather than be sitting on a white sand beach watching my cabana boys running around in loin cloths as I sip from my coconut. Hell yea I would rather be doing that... I mean if there was no " need" for me to work I would think I would be crazy to choose to work instead. LOL!
Most people work in the hopes that one day they will make enough to go live on their " beach". When the government plans on taking that money instead, what is the point of earning it anymore?
We aren't talking about white sand beaches, coconuts and cabana boys. We're talking about subsidized housing, food stamps and child support. Would you rather work or settle with that?
And how about answering your own question? What's your incentive to make more money even though the government is taxing it? Do you choose to not pursue higher salaries?
To answer for myself, more money is common sense. I'm much better off in a higher tax bracket than I am in a lower, and that goes for 100% of Americans. So it's COMMON SENSE to want to do better and make more money. It's as if you believe the more you make = the less you can afford.
If you aren't personally so bothered by our tax rates that it stops you from seeking higher earnings, then don't assume the next person to be so dumb that they are, especially those that take in quadruple what you do, because obviously they've already measured the pros and cons.
Originally posted by sepher So even amongst your friends, family members and co-workers that voted for Obama, they'd prefer not to work and support themselves? Gotcha. That's a terrible suspicion to be carrying around.
I've not a single friend or family member that voted for him. And yes, many of the co-workers I see who voted for him have, simply put, a poor work ethic. And, look at my previous comments. Many, I said, are OK with working for what they have (rather what they can afford), but it is when they find they want something they cannot afford, they complain of unfairness - they wish for others to work and then simply claim it from them.
It's not a suspicion or a fact, it's simply an opinion based upon personal observation. Is that to say everyone who supports him is like that? No, but once again, my opinion can only be based upon observation.
Boy, isn't that a stacked deck. Not even a single friend or family member that voted for Obama that shares your work ethic. Quite the opposite, a family full of people that didn't vote for Obama, and many examples of people that did support Obama that have poor work ethic.
That's all I wanted to know, what realities you base your opinions on. Quite stark.
Originally posted by sepher Would you prefer to live on welfare? Why or why not?
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Why would I work if I didn;t have to? If there was no need, why would I be doing that rather than be sitting on a white sand beach watching my cabana boys running around in loin cloths as I sip from my coconut. Hell yea I would rather be doing that... I mean if there was no " need" for me to work I would think I would be crazy to choose to work instead. LOL!
Most people work in the hopes that one day they will make enough to go live on their " beach". When the government plans on taking that money instead, what is the point of earning it anymore?
We aren't talking about white sand beaches, coconuts and cabana boys. We're talking about subsidized housing, food stamps and child support. Would you rather work or settle with that?
And how about answering your own question? What's your incentive to make more money even though the government is taxing it? Do you choose to not pursue higher salaries?
To answer for myself, more money is common sense. I'm much better off in a higher tax bracket than I am in a lower, and that goes for 100% of Americans. So it's COMMON SENSE to want to do better and make more money. It's as if you believe the more you make = the less you can afford.
If you aren't personally so bothered by our tax rates that it stops you from seeking higher earnings, then don't assume the next person to be so dumb that they are, especially those that take in quadruple what you do, because obviously they've already measured the pros and cons.
Yes , yes we are talking about the same thing. Because everyone has their own Idea of what they want in life, and many have lower expectations than others. Some are perfectly content living in just getting by if that means they do not have to work. Their goals in life are lower, so as long as they are taken care of that is all they need. To be able to do what they want when they want.. Others have higher goals. It is all a matter of what your goals are in life.
Oh and many of those on subsidized housing, food stamps, and child support have alternative incomes that are not reported in order to receive their benefits. This one mother I met who was receiving our government funds bragged about how she sleeps with truck drivers and gets them to buy her clothes, jewelry, her car and such and since it is not her income and the car isn;t in her name she can still receive benefits.. What some people think is the " good Life" compared to other is shockingly different. LOL
Originally posted by sepher Would you prefer to live on welfare? Why or why not?
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Why would I work if I didn;t have to? If there was no need, why would I be doing that rather than be sitting on a white sand beach watching my cabana boys running around in loin cloths as I sip from my coconut. Hell yea I would rather be doing that... I mean if there was no " need" for me to work I would think I would be crazy to choose to work instead. LOL!
Most people work in the hopes that one day they will make enough to go live on their " beach". When the government plans on taking that money instead, what is the point of earning it anymore?
We aren't talking about white sand beaches, coconuts and cabana boys. We're talking about subsidized housing, food stamps and child support. Would you rather work or settle with that?
And how about answering your own question? What's your incentive to make more money even though the government is taxing it? Do you choose to not pursue higher salaries?
To answer for myself, more money is common sense. I'm much better off in a higher tax bracket than I am in a lower, and that goes for 100% of Americans. So it's COMMON SENSE to want to do better and make more money. It's as if you believe the more you make = the less you can afford.
If you aren't personally so bothered by our tax rates that it stops you from seeking higher earnings, then don't assume the next person to be so dumb that they are, especially those that take in quadruple what you do, because obviously they've already measured the pros and cons.
Yes , yes we are talking about the same thing. Because everyone has their own Idea of what they want in life, and many have lower expectations than others. Some are perfectly content living in just getting by if that means they do not have to work. Their goals in life are lower, so as long as they are taken care of that is all they need. To be able to do what they want when they want.. Others have higher goals. It is all a matter of what your goals are in life.
Oh and many of those on subsidized housing, food stamps, and child support have alternative incomes that are not reported in order to receive their benefits. This one mother I met who was receiving our government funds bragged about how she sleeps with truck drivers and gets them to buy her clothes, jewelry, her car and such and since it is not her income and the car isn;t in her name she can still receive benefits.. What some people think is the " good Life" compared to other is shockingly different. LOL
What you want in life has to be worked for if its beaches and straws in coconuts. There's a big difference between a permanent vacation and a free pass to American poverty. I'm quite sure everyone would prefer the beach over the projects, so its safe to assume a majority of Americans would rather work for what they want since that's the only way to it, eh? It's what you, your friends and family have to do.
You're a microcosm of America, not uniquely American, so if people soliciting truck drivers is an exception for you and yours, its probably an exception for the rest of the country.
Originally posted by sepher That's all I wanted to know, what realities you base your opinions on. Quite stark.
As I said, it is based upon observation. Don't hold me accountable for such a view when that's all what is seen.
If you want some sort of fairness then, I can state the same regarding some of those I know who voted for McCain.
And, before you try to throw that "Gotcha" trap, I didn't vote for him either.
Nah. That's why I never said you or yours did support McCain simply because they didn't vote for Obama.
It's nice to see some balance though in you mentioning McCain.
I still feel your whole angle is very cynical and unfortunate. It's almost as if you see more bums on the streets than you do kids on a college campuses. That's highly exaggerating, but its the tone of the impression you give.
Originally posted by sepher Would you prefer to live on welfare? Why or why not?
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Why would I work if I didn;t have to? If there was no need, why would I be doing that rather than be sitting on a white sand beach watching my cabana boys running around in loin cloths as I sip from my coconut. Hell yea I would rather be doing that... I mean if there was no " need" for me to work I would think I would be crazy to choose to work instead. LOL!
Most people work in the hopes that one day they will make enough to go live on their " beach". When the government plans on taking that money instead, what is the point of earning it anymore?
We aren't talking about white sand beaches, coconuts and cabana boys. We're talking about subsidized housing, food stamps and child support. Would you rather work or settle with that?
And how about answering your own question? What's your incentive to make more money even though the government is taxing it? Do you choose to not pursue higher salaries?
To answer for myself, more money is common sense. I'm much better off in a higher tax bracket than I am in a lower, and that goes for 100% of Americans. So it's COMMON SENSE to want to do better and make more money. It's as if you believe the more you make = the less you can afford.
If you aren't personally so bothered by our tax rates that it stops you from seeking higher earnings, then don't assume the next person to be so dumb that they are, especially those that take in quadruple what you do, because obviously they've already measured the pros and cons.
Yes , yes we are talking about the same thing. Because everyone has their own Idea of what they want in life, and many have lower expectations than others. Some are perfectly content living in just getting by if that means they do not have to work. Their goals in life are lower, so as long as they are taken care of that is all they need. To be able to do what they want when they want.. Others have higher goals. It is all a matter of what your goals are in life.
Oh and many of those on subsidized housing, food stamps, and child support have alternative incomes that are not reported in order to receive their benefits. This one mother I met who was receiving our government funds bragged about how she sleeps with truck drivers and gets them to buy her clothes, jewelry, her car and such and since it is not her income and the car isn;t in her name she can still receive benefits.. What some people think is the " good Life" compared to other is shockingly different. LOL
What you want in life has to be worked for if its beaches and straws in coconuts. There's a big difference between a permanent vacation and a free pass to American poverty. I'm quite sure everyone would prefer the beach over the projects, so its safe to assume a majority of Americans would rather work for what they want since that's the only way to it, eh? It's what you, your friends and family have to do.
You're a microcosm of America, not uniquely American, so if people soliciting truck drivers is an exception for you and yours, its probably an exception for the rest of the country.
LOL where I live, most people are NOT from This country. I live in a high immigration area, which yes, there are many here who are content with just being taken care of after their life of digging through trash piles for food in Mexico. You will find this common in many of the high immigration areas. Ask people from LA, and San antonio... this is more common than you would like to believe. For a good sector of our population welfare has become their goal, their way of life, and do not plan on changing that.
Yes, it is higher in certain areas than others, but it is a sad truth to what has become of our system. I do not think we should do away with welfare, but rather change the way it is implemented. Require the people to work for their welfare checks rather than just hand them out. help them develop a good work ethic in the process.
Something the government could do to help the economic crisis:
Reform our welfare system.
no more free rides.
Instead, pay them for work.
* if they are physically able : they can do manual labor such as picking up trash alongside the roads, do landscaping in the community, help build and repair homes for the elderly,and growing fruits and vegtables in a community garden or farm, raise livestock, to help relieve the costs of their own food.
* if they are not physically able: they can sit at home and sew blankets and clothing or weave fabric to cover their clothing costs and provide blankets for the needy.
* If they are disabled, there are some things they can and cannot do, some would be able to work via computers, others would not but this would greatly limit the amount of people on welfare that are not able to contribute to society.
The way I look at it is if they want sociey to assist them, they inturn should contribute to society. Allowing them to be a part of their own solution, by teaching them to grow their own food, make their own blankets and clothing allows them to help solve their own problems. This in turn would reduce the need to pay for many of these things that we are currently paying for.
LOL where I live, most people are NOT from This country. I live in a high immigration area, which yes, there are many here who are content with just being taken care of after their life of digging through trash piles for food in Mexico. You will find this common in many of the high immigration areas. Ask people from LA, and San antonio... this is more common than you would like to believe. For a good sector of our population welfare has become their goal, their way of life, and do not plan on changing that. Yes, it is higher in certain areas than others, but it is a sad truth to what has become of our system. I do not think we should do away with welfare, but rather change the way it is implemented. Require the people to work for their welfare checks rather than just hand them out. help them develop a good work ethic in the process.
Interesting. Well I have to say, I've never experienced anything like it, so I can't judge it. Not sure how this conversation deviated towards welfare though; it began with me countering a point that higher tax rates are an incentive to purposefully stall salary. Regardless of the state of welfare, that's still untrue and is a separate matter all together for people that opt out of...employment all together.
We know for a fact things like earned income credit expansion benefit small business owners moreso than tax cuts to the rich. Just one more reason to focus entirely on not burdening middle incomer workers in our country anymore for the sake of making the rich richer.
Middle income earners deserve to take on their share of the burden just as much as everyone else.
Rich, poor, it makes no difference, everyone across the board in society has benefited from the boomtimes. The dangerous thing about overtaxing the rich, "just because they are richer", is that it reduces the incentive to become rich. If becoming successful, working harder or just earning more money earns you the moral reward of state victimisation, then the incentive to do so is curtailed.
Further to this, rich people are upwardly mobile. They can afford to leave. Keeping rich people in your country is a competative business, if they feel you are treating them unfairly, they will leave. Many many other countries and societies are falling over themselves to offer them a better deal.
If you do not offer the kind of enviroment in which rich people can get richer, then rich people will migrate to somewhere that does.
Given that rich people already pay the bulk of the nations taxes, this is not in the best intrests of middle income earners anymore than it is low income earners.
Getting rich is the American dream.
"everyone across the board in society has benefited from the boomtimes."
Median income fell and poverty grew as we favored the rich this last go around. It's unfortunate that beliefs about top earners are tainted with the ideas that economic boom equate to everyone doing good. The rich getting richer does NOT equate to more jobs, higher salaries and lowered prices for common things.
No mate, but it does equate to greater tax income for your government. Money which is redistributed to the poor which provides infrastructures that the middle classes rely on and prosper from.
Medical care, welfare, policing, roads, effective military, education, emergency services, national parks, guarenteed low income home loans etc.
The poor and middle classes didn't benefit from these in the boomtimes? My arse they didn't. They were on the recieving end of a shed load of services they couldn't afford all through.
Things that the poorer use more than the richer, but the richer pay most of the costs for.
Poor people get a free ride and then you want to kick rich people for providing it for them. Sorry to hear the rich didn't send everyone poorer than them a personal check. Did you?
It's not rich peoples fault prices went up. America's rich didn't create the oil crisis, they did every thing they could to get prices down too. High prices don't benefit them either. In fact no one did more to bring prices down than them.
It isn't the responsability of the rich to make jobs for the poor. Rich poor, median. The world doesn't owe you a job and it doesn't owe you a pay rise. When prices go up, you have to take you share of the burden. When your job doesn't make any more money for the company, you don't get a pay rise. Rich, poor, middle class, it's true for everyone.
In fact peoples moronic expectation of perpetual pay rises is a large part of why employment is slipping away to countries that are willing to work for less.
Everyone across the board has benefited from the boomtimes. The hard done by crowd will continue to be hard done by whatever. If you are going to pander to anyone in society, pander to the most productive. Those that put the most in.
You didn't favour the rich then, you don't favour the rich now. They have always paid more tax than the middle classes and lower classes. That's what it is to be a minority in a democracy.
Who could blame them if they chose to leave a country which resents them so.
It's the American dream mate. The prospect that anyman no matter where he comes from can get rich in America. It lures the most talented and productive go getting people from all around the world to your country and they pull a lot more than just their own weight.
Choose your scapegoats wisely, there are plenty of other countries that would cut off their arms to have them.
No mate, but it does equate to greater tax income for your government. Money which is redistributed to the poor which provides infrastructures that the middle classes rely on and prosper from. Medical care, welfare, policing, roads, effective military, education, emergency services, national parks, guarenteed low income home loans etc. The poor and middle classes didn't benefit from these in the boomtimes? My arse they didn't. They were on the recieving end of a shed load of services they couldn't afford all through.
Things that the poorer use more than the richer, but the richer pay most of the costs for. Poor people get a free ride and then you want to kick rich people for providing it for them. Sorry to hear the rich didn't send everyone poorer than them a personal check. Did you?
It's not rich peoples fault prices went up. America's rich didn't create the oil crisis, they did every thing they could to get prices down too. High prices don't benefit them either. In fact no one did more to bring prices down than them. It isn't the responsability of the rich to make jobs for the poor. Rich poor, median. The world doesn't owe you a job and it doesn't owe you a pay rise. When prices go up, you have to take you share of the burden. When your job doesn't make any more money for the company, you don't get a pay rise. Rich, poor, middle class, it's true for everyone.
In fact peoples moronic expectation of perpetual pay rises is a large part of why employment is slipping away to countries that are willing to work for less. Everyone across the board has benefited from the boomtimes. The hard done by crowd will continue to be hard done by whatever. If you are going to pander to anyone in society, pander to the most productive. Those that put the most in. You didn't favour the rich then, you don't favour the rich now. They have always paid more tax than the middle classes and lower classes. That's what it is to be a minority in a democracy. Who could blame them if they chose to leave a country which resents them so.
It's the American dream mate. The prospect that anyman no matter where he comes from can get rich in America. It lures the most talented and productive go getting people from all around the world to your country and they pull a lot more than just their own weight. Choose your scapegoats wisely, there are plenty of other countries that would cut off their arms to have them.
No, tax cuts for the rich didn't equate to greater tax income for our government. There's a known hundreds of billions of dollars in tax avoidance though if that's what you meant. So be it job creation, increasing salaries, paying taxes correctly or otherwise investing here, incentives for the rich have not worked in the past decade and certainly no "boomtimes" centered around the rich have benefited anyone other than the rich.
And no, the poor and middle class didn't benefit from any "boomtime" recently. During the Clinton years, sure. What roads and national parks have to do with anything, I don't know. Medical care (health care coverage and affordability?? That's slipped. Welfare? We're talking about employed tax payers, 50% of which pay little or no federal income taxes, a majority more not qualifying as "rich".
As for the question about the poor wanting a "free ride". No. All I've ever argued against was abandoning corporate welfare and favortism towards the rich. I don't wat the tables turned and income rising for everyone except the rich while the rich regress, I just want economic policies in our federal government that see towards ALL Americans keeping pace with the GDP while poverty and jobless claims decrease.
Don't know what to say about that comment of "rich" people and how they helped or hurt oil prices. Who are you talking about? Those are some specific claims to not be specific. The rich aren't guardian angels or anything.
And no, the rich don't owe the country job creation or salary hikes. Our government doesn't owe the rich tax cuts as incentives to do those things; funded with money we borrow and America as a whole has to pay for.
As for all the mess about the rich being prosecuted and leaving the country. Right, myth. Last time I checked our wealthiest of Americans vote predominantly Democrat due to concerns we're actually spending money towards like health care and education. But then you have the Joe the Plumber middle-class types that feel like catering to the rich more than they do themselves unprompted.
No one is attacking the "rich". I'm simply in favor of preventing any further corporate welfare and losing more money overseas.
Comments
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
tbh i dont think many people want to work, since alot of people dont like their jobs. But thats life, you work to make money to afford bills. People who want to live off the government (AKA other people's taxes) check, are 1 of 2 kinds of people.
1: just got laid off, needs some support to help pay bills as this person finds another job
2: too lazy to work, and just plain doesnt want to work. Would rather sit at home and live off the bare essentials.
although there could be another option or 2 i'm missing, i'm tired, and thats all i can think of atm.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
Actually I do not.
I see many folks who are happy Obama is in office because he will help with their mortgage, their medical, their this, and their that simply because they think they deserve it - they think they have a right. They have an "It's not fair attitude".
Actually I do not.
I see many folks who are happy Obama is in office because he will help with their mortgage, their medical, their this, and their that simply because they think they deserve it - they think they have a right. They have an "It's not fair attitude".
Many or most? Because my question was whether or not you felt the majority of Americas would rather work and support themselves the way you do.
I'm just trying to get a grasp of your perception of Americans at large. If your cynicism goes so far as to believe your preference to work and support yourself is a personal quality moreso than a given between any two random Americans. You pointed out your sister-in-law as a lazy-type. What about other relatives and friends around you? How does many or most figure into that?
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
Actually I do not.
I see many folks who are happy Obama is in office because he will help with their mortgage, their medical, their this, and their that simply because they think they deserve it - they think they have a right. They have an "It's not fair attitude".
Many or most? Because my question was whether or not you felt the majority of Americas would rather work and support themselves the way you do.
I'm just trying to get a grasp of your perception of Americans at large. If your cynicism goes so far as to believe your preference to work and support yourself is a personal quality moreso than a given between any two random Americans. You pointed out your sister-in-law as a lazy-type. What about other relatives and friends around you? How does many or most figure into that?
I will simplify and state most Obama supporters.
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Actually I do not.
I see many folks who are happy Obama is in office because he will help with their mortgage, their medical, their this, and their that simply because they think they deserve it - they think they have a right. They have an "It's not fair attitude".
Many or most? Because my question was whether or not you felt the majority of Americas would rather work and support themselves the way you do.
I'm just trying to get a grasp of your perception of Americans at large. If your cynicism goes so far as to believe your preference to work and support yourself is a personal quality moreso than a given between any two random Americans. You pointed out your sister-in-law as a lazy-type. What about other relatives and friends around you? How does many or most figure into that?
I will simplify and state most Obama supporters.
So even amongst your friends, family members and co-workers that voted for Obama, they'd prefer not to work and support themselves? Gotcha. That's a terrible suspicion to be carrying around.
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Why would I work if I didn;t have to? If there was no need, why would I be doing that rather than be sitting on a white sand beach watching my cabana boys running around in loin cloths as I sip from my coconut. Hell yea I would rather be doing that... I mean if there was no " need" for me to work I would think I would be crazy to choose to work instead. LOL!
Most people work in the hopes that one day they will make enough to go live on their " beach". When the government plans on taking that money instead, what is the point of earning it anymore?
EDIT: nvm
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I've not a single friend or family member that voted for him. And yes, many of the co-workers I see who voted for him have, simply put, a poor work ethic. And, look at my previous comments. Many, I said, are OK with working for what they have (rather what they can afford), but it is when they find they want something they cannot afford, they complain of unfairness - they wish for others to work and then simply claim it from them.
It's not a suspicion or a fact, it's simply an opinion based upon personal observation. Is that to say everyone who supports him is like that? No, but once again, my opinion can only be based upon observation.
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Why would I work if I didn;t have to? If there was no need, why would I be doing that rather than be sitting on a white sand beach watching my cabana boys running around in loin cloths as I sip from my coconut. Hell yea I would rather be doing that... I mean if there was no " need" for me to work I would think I would be crazy to choose to work instead. LOL!
Most people work in the hopes that one day they will make enough to go live on their " beach". When the government plans on taking that money instead, what is the point of earning it anymore?
We aren't talking about white sand beaches, coconuts and cabana boys. We're talking about subsidized housing, food stamps and child support. Would you rather work or settle with that?
And how about answering your own question? What's your incentive to make more money even though the government is taxing it? Do you choose to not pursue higher salaries?
To answer for myself, more money is common sense. I'm much better off in a higher tax bracket than I am in a lower, and that goes for 100% of Americans. So it's COMMON SENSE to want to do better and make more money. It's as if you believe the more you make = the less you can afford.
If you aren't personally so bothered by our tax rates that it stops you from seeking higher earnings, then don't assume the next person to be so dumb that they are, especially those that take in quadruple what you do, because obviously they've already measured the pros and cons.
I've not a single friend or family member that voted for him. And yes, many of the co-workers I see who voted for him have, simply put, a poor work ethic. And, look at my previous comments. Many, I said, are OK with working for what they have (rather what they can afford), but it is when they find they want something they cannot afford, they complain of unfairness - they wish for others to work and then simply claim it from them.
It's not a suspicion or a fact, it's simply an opinion based upon personal observation. Is that to say everyone who supports him is like that? No, but once again, my opinion can only be based upon observation.
Boy, isn't that a stacked deck. Not even a single friend or family member that voted for Obama that shares your work ethic. Quite the opposite, a family full of people that didn't vote for Obama, and many examples of people that did support Obama that have poor work ethic.
That's all I wanted to know, what realities you base your opinions on. Quite stark.
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Why would I work if I didn;t have to? If there was no need, why would I be doing that rather than be sitting on a white sand beach watching my cabana boys running around in loin cloths as I sip from my coconut. Hell yea I would rather be doing that... I mean if there was no " need" for me to work I would think I would be crazy to choose to work instead. LOL!
Most people work in the hopes that one day they will make enough to go live on their " beach". When the government plans on taking that money instead, what is the point of earning it anymore?
We aren't talking about white sand beaches, coconuts and cabana boys. We're talking about subsidized housing, food stamps and child support. Would you rather work or settle with that?
And how about answering your own question? What's your incentive to make more money even though the government is taxing it? Do you choose to not pursue higher salaries?
To answer for myself, more money is common sense. I'm much better off in a higher tax bracket than I am in a lower, and that goes for 100% of Americans. So it's COMMON SENSE to want to do better and make more money. It's as if you believe the more you make = the less you can afford.
If you aren't personally so bothered by our tax rates that it stops you from seeking higher earnings, then don't assume the next person to be so dumb that they are, especially those that take in quadruple what you do, because obviously they've already measured the pros and cons.
Yes , yes we are talking about the same thing. Because everyone has their own Idea of what they want in life, and many have lower expectations than others. Some are perfectly content living in just getting by if that means they do not have to work. Their goals in life are lower, so as long as they are taken care of that is all they need. To be able to do what they want when they want.. Others have higher goals. It is all a matter of what your goals are in life.
Oh and many of those on subsidized housing, food stamps, and child support have alternative incomes that are not reported in order to receive their benefits. This one mother I met who was receiving our government funds bragged about how she sleeps with truck drivers and gets them to buy her clothes, jewelry, her car and such and since it is not her income and the car isn;t in her name she can still receive benefits.. What some people think is the " good Life" compared to other is shockingly different. LOL
As I said, it is based upon observation. Don't hold me accountable for such a view when that's all what is seen.
If you want some sort of fairness then, I can state the same regarding some of those I know who voted for McCain.
And, before you try to throw that "Gotcha" trap, I didn't vote for him either.
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Why would I work if I didn;t have to? If there was no need, why would I be doing that rather than be sitting on a white sand beach watching my cabana boys running around in loin cloths as I sip from my coconut. Hell yea I would rather be doing that... I mean if there was no " need" for me to work I would think I would be crazy to choose to work instead. LOL!
Most people work in the hopes that one day they will make enough to go live on their " beach". When the government plans on taking that money instead, what is the point of earning it anymore?
We aren't talking about white sand beaches, coconuts and cabana boys. We're talking about subsidized housing, food stamps and child support. Would you rather work or settle with that?
And how about answering your own question? What's your incentive to make more money even though the government is taxing it? Do you choose to not pursue higher salaries?
To answer for myself, more money is common sense. I'm much better off in a higher tax bracket than I am in a lower, and that goes for 100% of Americans. So it's COMMON SENSE to want to do better and make more money. It's as if you believe the more you make = the less you can afford.
If you aren't personally so bothered by our tax rates that it stops you from seeking higher earnings, then don't assume the next person to be so dumb that they are, especially those that take in quadruple what you do, because obviously they've already measured the pros and cons.
Yes , yes we are talking about the same thing. Because everyone has their own Idea of what they want in life, and many have lower expectations than others. Some are perfectly content living in just getting by if that means they do not have to work. Their goals in life are lower, so as long as they are taken care of that is all they need. To be able to do what they want when they want.. Others have higher goals. It is all a matter of what your goals are in life.
Oh and many of those on subsidized housing, food stamps, and child support have alternative incomes that are not reported in order to receive their benefits. This one mother I met who was receiving our government funds bragged about how she sleeps with truck drivers and gets them to buy her clothes, jewelry, her car and such and since it is not her income and the car isn;t in her name she can still receive benefits.. What some people think is the " good Life" compared to other is shockingly different. LOL
What you want in life has to be worked for if its beaches and straws in coconuts. There's a big difference between a permanent vacation and a free pass to American poverty. I'm quite sure everyone would prefer the beach over the projects, so its safe to assume a majority of Americans would rather work for what they want since that's the only way to it, eh? It's what you, your friends and family have to do.
You're a microcosm of America, not uniquely American, so if people soliciting truck drivers is an exception for you and yours, its probably an exception for the rest of the country.
As I said, it is based upon observation. Don't hold me accountable for such a view when that's all what is seen.
If you want some sort of fairness then, I can state the same regarding some of those I know who voted for McCain.
And, before you try to throw that "Gotcha" trap, I didn't vote for him either.
Nah. That's why I never said you or yours did support McCain simply because they didn't vote for Obama.
It's nice to see some balance though in you mentioning McCain.
I still feel your whole angle is very cynical and unfortunate. It's almost as if you see more bums on the streets than you do kids on a college campuses. That's highly exaggerating, but its the tone of the impression you give.
I'm not being cynical. As I said, it was from personal observations. Would I like to have my opinion proven false? Hell yes.
No, I prefer to work and support myself, not be dependent upon a government entity for support.
I think welfare is necessary as a temporary solution, not the allowance of individuals to make it their sole support.
Awesome. Would you agree that the majority of America feels the same as you, that we rather work and support ourselves? That'd be a much greater point to bring up than the exceptionally lazy.
Most people would rather be on vacation all the time. Do what they want , when they want. People work because it is necessary, if they do not work they will starve. Yes, there are people who love their jobs, but for the most part people would much rather win the lottery and go on a permanent vacation. As long as there is no reason for them to work, most people would choose not to.
What about you and your work ethic?
My whole point is, what's with all the assumptions about other people? Assumptions that we'd be offended to make about ourselves, members of our immediate family or our close friends? Is it far fetched to believe that the next person believes the same as you about his or herself and surrounding friends and family?
It makes no sense to be that cynical. If you yourself would prefer to work even if you didn't have to, you have to understand there's nothing special about you that makes you unique when compared to "most" and how they feel as well regarding the same matter.
I don't believe a majority of Americans are working just to not "starve". Everyone wants to do better, and that's the chief pursuit.
Why would I work if I didn;t have to? If there was no need, why would I be doing that rather than be sitting on a white sand beach watching my cabana boys running around in loin cloths as I sip from my coconut. Hell yea I would rather be doing that... I mean if there was no " need" for me to work I would think I would be crazy to choose to work instead. LOL!
Most people work in the hopes that one day they will make enough to go live on their " beach". When the government plans on taking that money instead, what is the point of earning it anymore?
We aren't talking about white sand beaches, coconuts and cabana boys. We're talking about subsidized housing, food stamps and child support. Would you rather work or settle with that?
And how about answering your own question? What's your incentive to make more money even though the government is taxing it? Do you choose to not pursue higher salaries?
To answer for myself, more money is common sense. I'm much better off in a higher tax bracket than I am in a lower, and that goes for 100% of Americans. So it's COMMON SENSE to want to do better and make more money. It's as if you believe the more you make = the less you can afford.
If you aren't personally so bothered by our tax rates that it stops you from seeking higher earnings, then don't assume the next person to be so dumb that they are, especially those that take in quadruple what you do, because obviously they've already measured the pros and cons.
Yes , yes we are talking about the same thing. Because everyone has their own Idea of what they want in life, and many have lower expectations than others. Some are perfectly content living in just getting by if that means they do not have to work. Their goals in life are lower, so as long as they are taken care of that is all they need. To be able to do what they want when they want.. Others have higher goals. It is all a matter of what your goals are in life.
Oh and many of those on subsidized housing, food stamps, and child support have alternative incomes that are not reported in order to receive their benefits. This one mother I met who was receiving our government funds bragged about how she sleeps with truck drivers and gets them to buy her clothes, jewelry, her car and such and since it is not her income and the car isn;t in her name she can still receive benefits.. What some people think is the " good Life" compared to other is shockingly different. LOL
What you want in life has to be worked for if its beaches and straws in coconuts. There's a big difference between a permanent vacation and a free pass to American poverty. I'm quite sure everyone would prefer the beach over the projects, so its safe to assume a majority of Americans would rather work for what they want since that's the only way to it, eh? It's what you, your friends and family have to do.
You're a microcosm of America, not uniquely American, so if people soliciting truck drivers is an exception for you and yours, its probably an exception for the rest of the country.
LOL where I live, most people are NOT from This country. I live in a high immigration area, which yes, there are many here who are content with just being taken care of after their life of digging through trash piles for food in Mexico. You will find this common in many of the high immigration areas. Ask people from LA, and San antonio... this is more common than you would like to believe. For a good sector of our population welfare has become their goal, their way of life, and do not plan on changing that.
Yes, it is higher in certain areas than others, but it is a sad truth to what has become of our system. I do not think we should do away with welfare, but rather change the way it is implemented. Require the people to work for their welfare checks rather than just hand them out. help them develop a good work ethic in the process.
Something the government could do to help the economic crisis:
Reform our welfare system.
no more free rides.
Instead, pay them for work.
* if they are physically able : they can do manual labor such as picking up trash alongside the roads, do landscaping in the community, help build and repair homes for the elderly,and growing fruits and vegtables in a community garden or farm, raise livestock, to help relieve the costs of their own food.
* if they are not physically able: they can sit at home and sew blankets and clothing or weave fabric to cover their clothing costs and provide blankets for the needy.
* If they are disabled, there are some things they can and cannot do, some would be able to work via computers, others would not but this would greatly limit the amount of people on welfare that are not able to contribute to society.
The way I look at it is if they want sociey to assist them, they inturn should contribute to society. Allowing them to be a part of their own solution, by teaching them to grow their own food, make their own blankets and clothing allows them to help solve their own problems. This in turn would reduce the need to pay for many of these things that we are currently paying for.
Interesting. Well I have to say, I've never experienced anything like it, so I can't judge it. Not sure how this conversation deviated towards welfare though; it began with me countering a point that higher tax rates are an incentive to purposefully stall salary. Regardless of the state of welfare, that's still untrue and is a separate matter all together for people that opt out of...employment all together.
Middle income earners deserve to take on their share of the burden just as much as everyone else.
Rich, poor, it makes no difference, everyone across the board in society has benefited from the boomtimes. The dangerous thing about overtaxing the rich, "just because they are richer", is that it reduces the incentive to become rich. If becoming successful, working harder or just earning more money earns you the moral reward of state victimisation, then the incentive to do so is curtailed.
Further to this, rich people are upwardly mobile. They can afford to leave. Keeping rich people in your country is a competative business, if they feel you are treating them unfairly, they will leave. Many many other countries and societies are falling over themselves to offer them a better deal.
If you do not offer the kind of enviroment in which rich people can get richer, then rich people will migrate to somewhere that does.
Given that rich people already pay the bulk of the nations taxes, this is not in the best intrests of middle income earners anymore than it is low income earners.
Getting rich is the American dream.
"everyone across the board in society has benefited from the boomtimes."
Yeah, that's not true: http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=623
Median income fell and poverty grew as we favored the rich this last go around. It's unfortunate that beliefs about top earners are tainted with the ideas that economic boom equate to everyone doing good. The rich getting richer does NOT equate to more jobs, higher salaries and lowered prices for common things.
No mate, but it does equate to greater tax income for your government. Money which is redistributed to the poor which provides infrastructures that the middle classes rely on and prosper from.
Medical care, welfare, policing, roads, effective military, education, emergency services, national parks, guarenteed low income home loans etc.
The poor and middle classes didn't benefit from these in the boomtimes? My arse they didn't. They were on the recieving end of a shed load of services they couldn't afford all through.
Things that the poorer use more than the richer, but the richer pay most of the costs for.
Poor people get a free ride and then you want to kick rich people for providing it for them. Sorry to hear the rich didn't send everyone poorer than them a personal check. Did you?
It's not rich peoples fault prices went up. America's rich didn't create the oil crisis, they did every thing they could to get prices down too. High prices don't benefit them either. In fact no one did more to bring prices down than them.
It isn't the responsability of the rich to make jobs for the poor. Rich poor, median. The world doesn't owe you a job and it doesn't owe you a pay rise. When prices go up, you have to take you share of the burden. When your job doesn't make any more money for the company, you don't get a pay rise. Rich, poor, middle class, it's true for everyone.
In fact peoples moronic expectation of perpetual pay rises is a large part of why employment is slipping away to countries that are willing to work for less.
Everyone across the board has benefited from the boomtimes. The hard done by crowd will continue to be hard done by whatever. If you are going to pander to anyone in society, pander to the most productive. Those that put the most in.
You didn't favour the rich then, you don't favour the rich now. They have always paid more tax than the middle classes and lower classes. That's what it is to be a minority in a democracy.
Who could blame them if they chose to leave a country which resents them so.
It's the American dream mate. The prospect that anyman no matter where he comes from can get rich in America. It lures the most talented and productive go getting people from all around the world to your country and they pull a lot more than just their own weight.
Choose your scapegoats wisely, there are plenty of other countries that would cut off their arms to have them.
We can start by people not voting for their party affiliation/preference, and actually do some research on candidates & issues, get educated.
And can we please have some good candidates to vote for already? Voting lesser of two evils gets old fast.
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No, tax cuts for the rich didn't equate to greater tax income for our government. There's a known hundreds of billions of dollars in tax avoidance though if that's what you meant. So be it job creation, increasing salaries, paying taxes correctly or otherwise investing here, incentives for the rich have not worked in the past decade and certainly no "boomtimes" centered around the rich have benefited anyone other than the rich.
And no, the poor and middle class didn't benefit from any "boomtime" recently. During the Clinton years, sure. What roads and national parks have to do with anything, I don't know. Medical care (health care coverage and affordability?? That's slipped. Welfare? We're talking about employed tax payers, 50% of which pay little or no federal income taxes, a majority more not qualifying as "rich".
As for the question about the poor wanting a "free ride". No. All I've ever argued against was abandoning corporate welfare and favortism towards the rich. I don't wat the tables turned and income rising for everyone except the rich while the rich regress, I just want economic policies in our federal government that see towards ALL Americans keeping pace with the GDP while poverty and jobless claims decrease.
Don't know what to say about that comment of "rich" people and how they helped or hurt oil prices. Who are you talking about? Those are some specific claims to not be specific. The rich aren't guardian angels or anything.
And no, the rich don't owe the country job creation or salary hikes. Our government doesn't owe the rich tax cuts as incentives to do those things; funded with money we borrow and America as a whole has to pay for.
As for all the mess about the rich being prosecuted and leaving the country. Right, myth. Last time I checked our wealthiest of Americans vote predominantly Democrat due to concerns we're actually spending money towards like health care and education. But then you have the Joe the Plumber middle-class types that feel like catering to the rich more than they do themselves unprompted.
No one is attacking the "rich". I'm simply in favor of preventing any further corporate welfare and losing more money overseas.