Originally posted by Pocahinha I work..i earn money..i do whatever i want with it, so i pre ordered MO..as a bonus i can test the game, if i dont like it its easy to sell the box on ebay for more money that the one i spend... So WTF are these guys doing on MO foruns whining?if you dont want / or dont like the game just stay away from the forums...or else i will think you are a bunch of frustrated people that love the game but have some kind of brain tumor that makes you bash something that you love...lol So take it easy...if the game sucks you will be the first to know..and dont be worried about the money i payed for the LE afterall...its MY MONEY... Like here is an exemple...AOC..its the most expensive game ever...any amount of money you pay for it its already too mutch...the game is that bad...but thats just my opinion...and im not going on the AOC forums saying that...if i dont like it i dont even talk about it...only if i like something i will post and talk about...
We know hardcore fanboys always give reasonable arguments. Its a fact. Everyone should listen to them.
I'm done discussing this with you Yamota. Everything has been said a hundred times by now and I don't fancy going into this 'fanboi versus hater' flamewar with you. Another bottom line; if you think the box costs too much whether that price is reasonable or an utter rip off, by all means, don't buy it. Noone is forcing you to do so.
I have already bought it but I still think it is too expensive. I dont think it is good to come of in front of your future customer base as a money-grabbing corp, that has most likely discouraged alot of people from buying this game and there is no justification for it. There was one limited edition, the loot bag, and they could have charged whatever they wanted for it because it is a limited edition. But there is no excuse for charging higher than the normal price for the normal boxed version, none.
Actually there is, mate; I called the boxed edition a 'limited edition' before, but that was misleading to you perhaps, what I ment was; 'special edition'. Because that is exactly what it is. It is an expensive, metal box, made in very small numbers compared to the 'normal boxes' of big releases. This ofcourse means (and what has been said a gazillion times before) that the boxes were quite an investment for SV as an independent developer with no big funds to back them. That + taxes and shipping costs explain the price. So repeat after me; SV is not making a higher profit on the boxed edition, they made them on REQUEST of the fanbase and it's price is fully understandable considering it's costs, taxes and shipping.
And no, "they need the money" is not a justification nor it is an excuse but it is rather an explanation which does not make it ok. Rather that makes things even worse as it signals to potential buyers that the company behind the game are running out of money.
They might or not might need our money badly. What they do need though, is to cover the costs they made with producing that boxed edition. That is why they need it off their shelves. To them it is big money just gathering dust as long as they don't sell them. And yes, indy devs have a much harder time to make ends meet compared to big established developers.
Furthermore the game was advertised, for a long time, as being released "summer 2009". Now, we all know, they have said end of 2009 "oct-dec" so who knows how much more it will get pushed back. I dont think anyone has forgotten the constant delays of Darkfail. So they want more than average price for an MMORPG that may be released in 5-6 months.
This is personal; you bought the box and I bought the box, but the difference between us is that I give jack shit about when this game will be a fully playable, complete game or when exactly the launch will be. As long as it gets there. I bought into the concept of MO which I truly love. To me it is the best blend of roleplaying and pvp friendliness in an mmorpg on paper.
I have not been fully drawn in to any mmorpg I have played in the past 2 years now because of crucial design decisions disapointing me again and again, MO devs have been very clear on game mechanics and the game concept behind it and every time I read up on the available info I almost cried 'Haleluja!', so yes, I love the concept so much that I don't mind to wait a little longer. Actually I hope the devs can allow themselves to take some extra time if they really need to, before they release MO.
All of these are NOT good signs for the last hope we got for an FFA PvP MMORPG. You can pretend it is, but pretending will do nothing about the facts of the current situation.
The only things we know is that pre orders have started when the game went beta and they are trying to get rid of their costly boxes first. A very smart thing for an indy dev without big funds backing them up whether they are in financial trouble or not. We honestly can't tell at this time.
I work..i earn money..i do whatever i want with it, so i pre ordered MO..as a bonus i can test the game, if i dont like it its easy to sell the box on ebay for more money that the one i spend...
So WTF are these guys doing on MO foruns whining?if you dont want / or dont like the game just stay away from the forums...or else i will think you are a bunch of frustrated people that love the game but have some kind of brain tumor that makes you bash something that you love...lol
So take it easy...if the game sucks you will be the first to know..and dont be worried about the money i payed for the LE afterall...its MY MONEY...
Like here is an exemple...AOC..its the most expensive game ever...any amount of money you pay for it its already too mutch...the game is that bad...but thats just my opinion...and im not going on the AOC forums saying that...if i dont like it i dont even talk about it...only if i like something i will post and talk about...
We know hardcore fanboys always give reasonable arguments. Its a fact. Everyone should listen to them.
/sarcasm
We know hardcore fatboys allways whine about anything. In fact its all they do...now go check your whining list and gogogo..do what you do best in life...
Also to add to Darkponies explanation about the Boxed Edition being a "limited edition" which it is, the reason you will not see MO on shelves of like gamestop or any store distributing companies is because they are going for a more mature game which includes full frontal nudity so if the ESRB had to rate the game more than likely it would be a adult only game instead of mature only game. The boxes are for the true followers of the game that is why Starvault made them. Bitching about the price after you have bought it is just stupid you already put the money forth so whats the point? if it was really that big of a deal you should of just not ordered.
Originally posted by Pocahinha I work..i earn money..i do whatever i want with it, so i pre ordered MO..as a bonus i can test the game, if i dont like it its easy to sell the box on ebay for more money that the one i spend... So WTF are these guys doing on MO foruns whining?if you dont want / or dont like the game just stay away from the forums...or else i will think you are a bunch of frustrated people that love the game but have some kind of brain tumor that makes you bash something that you love...lol So take it easy...if the game sucks you will be the first to know..and dont be worried about the money i payed for the LE afterall...its MY MONEY... Like here is an exemple...AOC..its the most expensive game ever...any amount of money you pay for it its already too mutch...the game is that bad...but thats just my opinion...and im not going on the AOC forums saying that...if i dont like it i dont even talk about it...only if i like something i will post and talk about...
We know hardcore fanboys always give reasonable arguments. Its a fact. Everyone should listen to them. /sarcasm
We know hardcore fatboys allways whine about anything. In fact its all they do...now go check your whining list and gogogo..do what you do best in life...
Thanks for proving my point. lol
This is the reason why everyone should avoid fanboys and their opinions like plague.
I work..i earn money..i do whatever i want with it, so i pre ordered MO..as a bonus i can test the game, if i dont like it its easy to sell the box on ebay for more money that the one i spend...
So WTF are these guys doing on MO foruns whining?if you dont want / or dont like the game just stay away from the forums...or else i will think you are a bunch of frustrated people that love the game but have some kind of brain tumor that makes you bash something that you love...lol
So take it easy...if the game sucks you will be the first to know..and dont be worried about the money i payed for the LE afterall...its MY MONEY...
Like here is an exemple...AOC..its the most expensive game ever...any amount of money you pay for it its already too mutch...the game is that bad...but thats just my opinion...and im not going on the AOC forums saying that...if i dont like it i dont even talk about it...only if i like something i will post and talk about...
We know hardcore fanboys always give reasonable arguments. Its a fact. Everyone should listen to them.
/sarcasm
We know hardcore fatboys allways whine about anything. In fact its all they do...now go check your whining list and gogogo..do what you do best in life...
Thanks for proving my point. lol
This is the reason why everyone should avoid fanboys and their opinions like plague.
Agreed.
If you want the least accurate opinion about a game then ask a fanboy. Second least accurate, ask a hater and best accurate opinion a normal customer that plays the game rather than engage in flamewars.
Unfourtanetely they are the hardest to find on a forum for obvious reasons
Also to add to Darkponies explanation about the Boxed Edition being a "limited edition" which it is, the reason you will not see MO on shelves of like gamestop or any store distributing companies is because they are going for a more mature game which includes full frontal nudity so if the ESRB had to rate the game more than likely it would be a adult only game instead of mature only game. The boxes are for the true followers of the game that is why Starvault made them. Bitching about the price after you have bought it is just stupid you already put the money forth so whats the point? if it was really that big of a deal you should of just not ordered.
The only people who are "bitching" or "whining" are you fanboys. Us others are just stating our opinions that we feel the game was overpriced. It is you guys who cant accept other peoples opinions so you call it bitching and whining where in fact it is you who are doing that.
As for buying something overpriced. Have you never bought something that you want that is overpriced? If not then good for you but many others pay extra for something they want, but that does not prevent them from thinking it was expensive. E.g. my car was expensive and not the best economical car to buy but yet I bought it anyway because I wanted that car. But I still think its an expensive, and in our country, an overpriced car
Also to add to Darkponies explanation about the Boxed Edition being a "limited edition" which it is, the reason you will not see MO on shelves of like gamestop or any store distributing companies is because they are going for a more mature game which includes full frontal nudity so if the ESRB had to rate the game more than likely it would be a adult only game instead of mature only game. The boxes are for the true followers of the game that is why Starvault made them. Bitching about the price after you have bought it is just stupid you already put the money forth so whats the point? if it was really that big of a deal you should of just not ordered.
The only people who are "bitching" or "whining" are you fanboys. Us others are just stating our opinions that we feel the game was overpriced. It is you guys who cant accept other peoples opinions so you call it bitching and whining where in fact it is you who are doing that.
As for buying something overpriced. Have you never bought something that you want that is overpriced? If not then good for you but many others pay extra for something they want, but that does not prevent them from thinking it was expensive. E.g. my car was expensive and not the best economical car to buy but yet I bought it anyway because I wanted that car. But I still think its an expensive, and in our country, an overpriced car
I consider what your doing bitching or trolling because even with Darkpony's constructive posts explaining why the boxed ver is not over priced you don't give any actual argument back stating why it isn't a good price. Like this post of yours.
Originally posted by Yamota
Who are you to state those things as a fact? Are you representing Star Vault? No, you are just a clown that think you are representing Star Vault.
They have been asking for boxes? Did they, whoever they are, also ask the boxes to be overpriced?This last statement is that of a hater
You keep saying that the normal boxed version is a limited edition box yet in the store it clearly says that only the loot bag is. So either put up some facts supporting that or stfu. He has put on some facts and so have I, there are only 9000 boxes that they ordered, and to bypass the ESRB they are not going to sell this game through game distributers.
We can get a moderaly priced digital download soon... define soon and how do you know this as a fact? You can actually get the Digital Download sometime today
We are not paying for beta? Ok so if this is not paid beta then what is it? It cant be a pre order of the game since preorders ARE CHARGED WHEN THE FINAL GAME IS SHIPPED. So what is it? Paid beta... you have even mentioned yourself that they need the money to finish the game and the game is in beta so by simple deductive reasoning then it is PAID BETA. It is not a paid beta, your just looking for faults. We all payed for the final product just a months in advance to reserve a spot to get into the game when the game is released for one and we will have actual discs in our hands to install part of the game so we wont have to download the whole game so we wont have to deal with as much bandwith issues if they arise. Yes they need money to finish the game and some of its followers are glad to pay before hand for the game to give them the help they need.
SV isnt being greedy? Oh really. Do you know that most private corporations has an obligation not only to any possibly stockholders but also for the investor TO MAKE PROFIT. That is how capitalism works. You sell products and you make profit, or you go bankrupt. To make profit you need to be greedy, in a way, and as far as I know Starvault is not a state backed company nor is it an ideal organisation. SO THEY NEED TO MAKE PROFIT. Imma give you a little lession on what exactly greed means, it means excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves. Sure it is a buisness and they "need" to make money to make either their investors happy also their employees, they also need money to finish the game and to begin on expansions which they obviously have plans for. Learn what a word means before using that word, you have contradicted yourself a few times in your post claiming they are greedy but they need the money which means they are not greedy.
I consider what your doing bitching or trolling because even with Darkpony's constructive posts explaining why the boxed ver is not over priced you don't give any actual argument back stating why it isn't a good price. Like this post of yours.
I have repeteadly given an argument why it is overpriced, maybe you should learn how to read or better yet learn to see beyond your extremely narrow point of view.
Dark Ponys argument lies in the following:
1. VAT
2. Box
3. Shipping
4. Limited edition
1,2,3 I have refuted by saying that in the same country that the game is developed, the prices of a regular PC game is about 50% less and since 1-3 applies to them as well then those arguments are void. And at the same time shows that Mortal Online is indeed overpriced.
The 4 is the only one that might be considered feasible, but on their very website it clearly says that the the Loot Bag is the limited edition and not the boxed version. Why? Because by definition you cannot later sell something that previously was marked as limited edition so they intentionally did not mark it as such. That means that probably we will see the boxed version when the game is released.
Furthermore, if their customer did indeed "ask" for these boxes then they could have offered digital copies as well. Because surely they asked for it then they would buy it, mm? But instead they are making sure that only the boxed version is available and with the fleeting statement that IF there are any copies left then you could buy a digital one come July 20th. That is one clever marketing scheme because that gives you the illusion that you better buy these boxed versions now or risk to miss out on, not only the beta, but also the final launch since they have said that 10.000 is what they will support on their first server and then open more "later".
So stfu pls about me not providing arguments for it, I have, but just because you dont agree with them does not mean I haven't presented any.
Originally posted by Yamota
Who are you to state those things as a fact? Are you representing Star Vault? No, you are just a clown that think you are representing Star Vault.
They have been asking for boxes? Did they, whoever they are, also ask the boxes to be overpriced?This last statement is that of a hater
Statement of a hater? Wow, what an argument you got there. Care to say why that statement is that of a hater? Did the people asking for boxes also ask them to be overpriced? Rethorical question but not sure where "hating" is involved.
You keep saying that the normal boxed version is a limited edition box yet in the store it clearly says that only the loot bag is. So either put up some facts supporting that or stfu. He has put on some facts and so have I, there are only 9000 boxes that they ordered, and to bypass the ESRB they are not going to sell this game through game distributers.
Not sure what kind of definition of facts you have but it is usually not the same thing as just stating something that cannot be backed with something credible (like a statement from the devs). There are 9000 boxes now, that does not mean there will be more boxed when the game is actually released, and that would make it not a limited edition which is most likely why it is not marked as a limited edition in the store and that is what matters. So unless it is stated that the boxed version is a limited edition (by them not by you) then you got nothing to back that statement.
Also, it would be nice to see a dev quote for that ESRB thing you mentioned becuase if not then that is also then pure speculation.
We can get a moderaly priced digital download soon... define soon and how do you know this as a fact? You can actually get the Digital Download sometime today
Link?
We are not paying for beta? Ok so if this is not paid beta then what is it? It cant be a pre order of the game since preorders ARE CHARGED WHEN THE FINAL GAME IS SHIPPED. So what is it? Paid beta... you have even mentioned yourself that they need the money to finish the game and the game is in beta so by simple deductive reasoning then it is PAID BETA. It is not a paid beta, your just looking for faults. We all payed for the final product just a months in advance to reserve a spot to get into the game when the game is released for one and we will have actual discs in our hands to install part of the game so we wont have to download the whole game so we wont have to deal with as much bandwith issues if they arise. Yes they need money to finish the game and some of its followers are glad to pay before hand for the game to give them the help they need.
Still did not answer what it is if it is not paid beta. It cannot be pre-order since pre-orders are charged when the final game is shipped so again I ask, if not paid beta then what is it?
And I am not looking for faults, I am telling things as it is. I pay, I get into beta and then in maybe 5-6 months I get to play the game. That sounds like paid beta plus the game whenever it is released.
SV isnt being greedy? Oh really. Do you know that most private corporations has an obligation not only to any possibly stockholders but also for the investor TO MAKE PROFIT. That is how capitalism works. You sell products and you make profit, or you go bankrupt. To make profit you need to be greedy, in a way, and as far as I know Starvault is not a state backed company nor is it an ideal organisation. SO THEY NEED TO MAKE PROFIT. Imma give you a little lession on what exactly greed means, it means excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves. Sure it is a buisness and they "need" to make money to make either their investors happy also their employees, they also need money to finish the game and to begin on expansions which they obviously have plans for. Learn what a word means before using that word, you have contradicted yourself a few times in your post claiming they are greedy but they need the money which means they are not greedy.
haha, where did you find that quoute in the dictionary? Excessive is entirely subjective and unless you have the actual projected balance sheet of Starvault finances then how can you know if it even is excessive or not.
To make a profit by definition means to make more money than you need, hence why u make a profit and the more profit, the better and hence where greed comes in. Greed is what fuels capitalism, morally wrong or right (I say wrong, but that is how it is). Do you think that their investors, or even themselves do this for their health? Hell no, they are doing it to earn money, and hopefully lots of it. The game industry is one of the most lucrative industries in the world and people are in it for the PROFIT, not only but that is one of the main reasons.
But by all means, keep on living in your fairy tale where game developers just scrape by and their investors are not doing it to get rich but to make the world a better place. LOL
I consider what your doing bitching or trolling because even with Darkpony's constructive posts explaining why the boxed ver is not over priced you don't give any actual argument back stating why it isn't a good price. Like this post of yours.
I have repeteadly given an argument why it is overpriced, maybe you should learn how to read or better yet learn to see beyond your extremely narrow point of view.
Dark Ponys argument lies in the following:
1. VAT
2. Box
3. Shipping
4. Limited edition
1,2,3 I have refuted by saying that in the same country that the game is developed, the prices of a regular PC game is about 50% less and since 1-3 applies to them as well then those arguments are void. And at the same time shows that Mortal Online is indeed overpriced.
The 4 is the only one that might be considered feasible, but on their very website it clearly says that the the Loot Bag is the limited edition and not the boxed version. Why? Because by definition you cannot later sell something that previously was marked as limited edition so they intentionally did not mark it as such. That means that probably we will see the boxed version when the game is released.
Furthermore, if their customer did indeed "ask" for these boxes then they could have offered digital copies as well. Because surely they asked for it then they would buy it, mm? But instead they are making sure that only the boxed version is available and with the fleeting statement that IF there are any copies left then you could buy a digital one come July 20th. That is one clever marketing scheme because that gives you the illusion that you better buy these boxed versions now or risk to miss out on, not only the beta, but also the final launch since they have said that 10.000 is what they will support on their first server and then open more "later".
So stfu pls about me not providing arguments for it, I have, but just because you dont agree with them does not mean I haven't presented any.
Originally posted by Yamota
Who are you to state those things as a fact? Are you representing Star Vault? No, you are just a clown that think you are representing Star Vault.
They have been asking for boxes? Did they, whoever they are, also ask the boxes to be overpriced?This last statement is that of a hater
Statement of a hater? Wow, what an argument you got there. Care to say why that statement is that of a hater? Did the people asking for boxes also ask them to be overpriced? Rethorical question but not sure where "hating" is involved.
You keep saying that the normal boxed version is a limited edition box yet in the store it clearly says that only the loot bag is. So either put up some facts supporting that or stfu. He has put on some facts and so have I, there are only 9000 boxes that they ordered, and to bypass the ESRB they are not going to sell this game through game distributers.
Not sure what kind of definition of facts you have but it is usually not the same thing as just stating something that cannot be backed with something credible (like a statement from the devs). There are 9000 boxes now, that does not mean there will be more boxed when the game is actually released, and that would make it not a limited edition which is most likely why it is not marked as a limited edition in the store and that is what matters. So unless it is stated that the boxed version is a limited edition (by them not by you) then you got nothing to back that statement.
Also, it would be nice to see a dev quote for that ESRB thing you mentioned becuase if not then that is also then pure speculation.
We can get a moderaly priced digital download soon... define soon and how do you know this as a fact? You can actually get the Digital Download sometime today
Link?
We are not paying for beta? Ok so if this is not paid beta then what is it? It cant be a pre order of the game since preorders ARE CHARGED WHEN THE FINAL GAME IS SHIPPED. So what is it? Paid beta... you have even mentioned yourself that they need the money to finish the game and the game is in beta so by simple deductive reasoning then it is PAID BETA. It is not a paid beta, your just looking for faults. We all payed for the final product just a months in advance to reserve a spot to get into the game when the game is released for one and we will have actual discs in our hands to install part of the game so we wont have to download the whole game so we wont have to deal with as much bandwith issues if they arise. Yes they need money to finish the game and some of its followers are glad to pay before hand for the game to give them the help they need.
Still did not answer what it is if it is not paid beta. It cannot be pre-order since pre-orders are charged when the final game is shipped so again I ask, if not paid beta then what is it?
And I am not looking for faults, I am telling things as it is. I pay, I get into beta and then in maybe 5-6 months I get to play the game. That sounds like paid beta plus the game whenever it is released.
SV isnt being greedy? Oh really. Do you know that most private corporations has an obligation not only to any possibly stockholders but also for the investor TO MAKE PROFIT. That is how capitalism works. You sell products and you make profit, or you go bankrupt. To make profit you need to be greedy, in a way, and as far as I know Starvault is not a state backed company nor is it an ideal organisation. SO THEY NEED TO MAKE PROFIT. Imma give you a little lession on what exactly greed means, it means excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves. Sure it is a buisness and they "need" to make money to make either their investors happy also their employees, they also need money to finish the game and to begin on expansions which they obviously have plans for. Learn what a word means before using that word, you have contradicted yourself a few times in your post claiming they are greedy but they need the money which means they are not greedy.
haha, where did you find that quoute in the dictionary? Excessive is entirely subjective and unless you have the actual projected balance sheet of Starvault finances then how can you know if it even is excessive or not.
To make a profit by definition means to make more money than you need, hence why u make a profit and the more profit, the better and hence where greed comes in. Greed is what fuels capitalism, morally wrong or right (I say wrong, but that is how it is). Do you think that their investors, or even themselves do this for their health? Hell no, they are doing it to earn money, and hopefully lots of it. The game industry is one of the most lucrative industries in the world and people are in it for the PROFIT, not only but that is one of the main reasons.
But by all means, keep on living in your fairy tale where game developers just scrape by and their investors are not doing it to get rich but to make the world a better place. LOL
Ok the arguments 1-3 are not void, we are not talking about a regular game here, this game will never see store shelves it will only be an online order. Sure you got stiffed on the shipping a little bit if your in Europe, the VAT has nothing to do with Starvault pushing the price up thats your Government, The box is a limited number of boxes that cost more than usually because they didn't mass produce them. Comparing this box to a random game you can pick up at a game distributer thats made of paper and is flimsy is no contest, you cant compare the 2. So like I said your argument holds no wieght, you are basically baseing your argument off of I should get a price match because this game costs 50 bucks but it isnt the same game nor does it include the same contents.
Yes a hater, your obviously set in your idea that this game is overpriced and Starvault is a greedy company no matter what, from what you have demonstrated in this thread no matter how DarkPony or me try and illuminate the reasons for the cost its just not good enough for you.
Ill give you the it might not be a limited edition for now, but truly at the moment from everything that has happened and considering the outburst of omg this is so overpriced threads I seriously doubt that they will sell more. Also about the ESRB thing its an obvious thing that will happen, they have announced they are aiming for 18+ category and if they do release it in stores because of full nudity it will be deemed by the ESRB an adult only game. So they will avoid that.
This is another thing your dead set about, you are so set on the fact that a pre-order is basically just putting your name on a list that you are willing to buy this game in the future, just because most places don't charge until near the time the game is shipped to you doesn't mean that other places won't charge you for the actual up front cost. Pre-Order means ordering the object before it is released, thats it, it has nothing to do with store policy or anything like that. Store policy dictates whether or not they charge you up front or when they are about to ship the product. Also follow your thoughts of show me a dev said it, its obvious that the devs have said if you pre order this you get the game! not just beta.
Also for your last retort that I don't have access to Starvaults finacials, guess what neither do you so you calling them greedy is guess what specufuckinglation.
I also never said that the developers scrape by they get paid to do this I said it was a buisness, but that does not mean they are being greedy. If they were truly that greedy they could easily charge extra for future expansions they could put in a cash shop to buy uber gear or special additions to a house or what not. I am baseing my idea on greedy at the MMO's that have released before and so far MO doesn't seem that greedy to me.
This I just had to add in an edit since I re-read your post.
Do you think that their investors, or even themselves do this for their health? Hell no, they are doing it to earn money, and hopefully lots of it.
Ok so with your mindset anyone who is trying to make a profit in this world is greedy because thats how your coming off. People are trying to make a living if they have the experience and the knowledge to make a game and sell it than good for them they put their dedication into learning how to achieve this, just like I'm a freelance graphic designer I charge people not neccesarily only for the time I takes me to make their page but also for the time I spent to learn to do professional graphics.
I hate to jump into such a wonderful arguement but for accuracy I should point out that on your link, that's a forum moderator (who is a 19 year old living in Florida, many miles from Star Vault) not a game developer, making that comment.
I hate to jump into such a wonderful arguement but for accuracy I should point out that on your link, that's a forum moderator (who is a 19 year old living in Florida, many miles from Star Vault) not a game developer, making that comment.
Aight thanks but it shouldn't matter since its common knowledge on the forums so Yamato should know already, or hes just that lazy.
Yamota said "You know there is a thing called "free speech". And even though it is not completely free on a public forum like this then, so far, it is still allowed to say that an MMORPG that cost aprox $95 (that is what I paid) is expensive."
Irony: Yamota arguing that the price of the product he already bought is too high and that everyone is being overcharged!!
Does this seem a bit off-kilter to anyone? Argue that what you paid for is over priced after you paid for it? That really does boggle my mind and I can't see any logic in the argument. So just what are you trying to prove or start here Yamota?
Looks to me like you are only trying to start a flame war for a game you have already paid $95 dollars for as you posted in another thread? Just can't figure that out.
Ok the arguments 1-3 are not void, we are not talking about a regular game here, this game will never see store shelves it will only be an online order. Sure you got stiffed on the shipping a little bit if your in Europe, the VAT has nothing to do with Starvault pushing the price up thats your Government, The box is a limited number of boxes that cost more than usually because they didn't mass produce them. Comparing this box to a random game you can pick up at a game distributer thats made of paper and is flimsy is no contest, you cant compare the 2. So like I said your argument holds no wieght, you are basically baseing your argument off of I should get a price match because this game costs 50 bucks but it isnt the same game nor does it include the same contents.
Ok, I have repeteadly asked for some kind of evidence of even indication from the devs that this game would indeed never be sold in the normal box, yet I have not seen any, so until I do then it is pure speculation/fabrication on your part and the argument is void.
I mean, have you even seen the box to claim that it costs so much to produce? And if so that still does not explain why they didn't offer a digital download as well as a limited edition. They claimed that would be available on july 20th if there were any copies left but lo behold, it is july 21th and no words on if all copies were sold and if there will be a digital download or not. Which proves again that you cannot just take something at face value but rather have to be critical of what the devs say, or not say.
Yes a hater, your obviously set in your idea that this game is overpriced and Starvault is a greedy company no matter what, from what you have demonstrated in this thread no matter how DarkPony or me try and illuminate the reasons for the cost its just not good enough for you.
I have been around a while you know, been a gamer for 25 years and played MMORPGs for 10 years so excuse me for not taking something that a couple of forum clowns say as the "truth". As for hater, whatever, I am as much a hater as you are a fanboy. Fair enough?
Yet amazingly I paid for the beta and I dont regret doing so, however I dont see everything in the rozy light as you guys do. I believe the game is overpriced and I believe that charging for a game that is not to be released for another 5-6 months is not good bussiness. If that makes me a "hater", then so be it.
Ill give you the it might not be a limited edition for now, but truly at the moment from everything that has happened and considering the outburst of omg this is so overpriced threads I seriously doubt that they will sell more. Also about the ESRB thing its an obvious thing that will happen, they have announced they are aiming for 18+ category and if they do release it in stores because of full nudity it will be deemed by the ESRB an adult only game. So they will avoid that.
ESRB is mainly an american rating system and not so widely known in the rest of the world. AoC had some major violence (decapitations, lots of blood) and nudity yet the game was sold as a boxed version. So this is still pure speculation on your part.
Ok, lets see if it happens and how many copies are indeed available.
This is another thing your dead set about, you are so set on the fact that a pre-order is basically just putting your name on a list that you are willing to buy this game in the future, just because most places don't charge until near the time the game is shipped to you doesn't mean that other places won't charge you for the actual up front cost. Pre-Order means ordering the object before it is released, thats it, it has nothing to do with store policy or anything like that. Store policy dictates whether or not they charge you up front or when they are about to ship the product. Also follow your thoughts of show me a dev said it, its obvious that the devs have said if you pre order this you get the game! not just beta.
First of all every pre-order i have ever heard of charges the game when it is shipped so I am not deadset about it, that is just how it is done.
Second of all I did not say you get just the beta, I have specifically said that you get the beta AND get to play the game in 5-6 months or whenever it is released. Hence it is paid beta, even if you do get to play the game when it is released.
Also for your last retort that I don't have access to Starvaults finacials, guess what neither do you so you calling them greedy is guess what specufuckinglation.
Not sure what specufuckinglation means but yeah, I dont know for a fact that Starvault is greedy, and never said I did, however it is a fact that capitalism fuels on greed. If you dont realise that then that is your problem.
I also never said that the developers scrape by they get paid to do this I said it was a buisness, but that does not mean they are being greedy. If they were truly that greedy they could easily charge extra for future expansions they could put in a cash shop to buy uber gear or special additions to a house or what not. I am baseing my idea on greedy at the MMO's that have released before and so far MO doesn't seem that greedy to me.
Like I said, it is subjective. Some people feel Bill Gates isn't greedy *shrug*. The main reason I say they are greedy is that they are charging 50% more than a standard boxed, PC game for a game not released for another 5-6 months which is completely unheard of for me. That for me is greedy, for you not. Whatever.
This I just had to add in an edit since I re-read your post.
Do you think that their investors, or even themselves do this for their health? Hell no, they are doing it to earn money, and hopefully lots of it.
Ok so with your mindset anyone who is trying to make a profit in this world is greedy because thats how your coming off. People are trying to make a living if they have the experience and the knowledge to make a game and sell it than good for them they put their dedication into learning how to achieve this, just like I'm a freelance graphic designer I charge people not neccesarily only for the time I takes me to make their page but also for the time I spent to learn to do professional graphics.
Like I said above, it is not just the fact that they want to make profit that see them as greed but also the fact that they are charging well over the standard price for a game not released yet and they want to make sure that people buy their overpriced boxed version by not providing a digital download.
If the game was released then one might call that clever marketing but seeing as the bloody thing is still in early beta I call that greed. Heck even if it was released I have never heard of charging 50% more for a version and not offer any alternatives except: You maybe can get a digital download if all the boxes aren't sold out.
Never have I bought a game with such a marketing scheme and for me that smells like greed. Could be desperation as well if they are completely dry in finances but that is not much better.
1) The price includes 11 Euros for transport fees.
2) The price includes free shipment of all patches on a DVD
3) The price includes 1 month of playtime after launch.
4) The current number of boxes is well under 9000. This means the box you buy is not normal box but rather CE type of box. Not to mention the box is metalic.
5) Devs have explained that making such low number of boxes is much more expensive than making huge number of boxes (6000 vs 200 000 for example)
If on top of this you add the beta access I think what you get is very reasonable price.
HOWEVER. Lets assume that still you think the price is high and SV are greedy bastards. Guess what...no one is forcing you to buy MO...its your choice to do so. You can completely freely go and buy the box version of WoW for 20-40 bucks.
Dude... Lets talk with facts about the price. You say its 50% more expensive than normal box.
1) The price includes 11 Euros for transport fees. 2) The price includes free shipment of all patches on a DVD 3) The price includes 1 month of playtime after launch. 4) The current number of boxes is well under 9000. This means the box you buy is not normal box but rather CE type of box. Not to mention the box is metalic. 5) Devs have explained that making such low number of boxes is much more expensive than making huge number of boxes (6000 vs 200 000 for example) If on top of this you add the beta access I think what you get is very reasonable price.
HOWEVER. Lets assume that still you think the price is high and SV are greedy bastards. Guess what...no one is forcing you to buy MO...its your choice to do so. You can completely freely go and buy the box version of WoW for 20-40 bucks.
The funny part is that he already bought it and is still bitching about the price. See my post above.
Dude... Lets talk with facts about the price. You say its 50% more expensive than normal box.
1) The price includes 11 Euros for transport fees. 2) The price includes free shipment of all patches on a DVD 3) The price includes 1 month of playtime after launch. 4) The current number of boxes is well under 9000. This means the box you buy is not normal box but rather CE type of box. Not to mention the box is metalic. 5) Devs have explained that making such low number of boxes is much more expensive than making huge number of boxes (6000 vs 200 000 for example) If on top of this you add the beta access I think what you get is very reasonable price.
HOWEVER. Lets assume that still you think the price is high and SV are greedy bastards. Guess what...no one is forcing you to buy MO...its your choice to do so. You can completely freely go and buy the box version of WoW for 20-40 bucks.
The funny part is that he already bought it and is still bitching about the price. See my post above.
Yea hes been called out on it from both me and DarkPony about it, but I'm done no point in trying to debate with someone who continually contradicts himself and than tries to play it off.
I've got a question before I take off tho Yamato with all the responses about wheres the Dev post, you sure spend a lot of time looking at these forums rather than just searching over at the MO forums, which really shows me that you probably had no idea what you were buying and once you saw the price you were outraged so now your just angry.
This was intersting read, the price of "thin air."
go away troll
Yeah, he should go upload another 12 AOC screens. Screen capping is about the most exciting thing to do in THAT game.
Yea as soon as I saw my most powerful attack at lvl 80 do maybe 20% damage on a necromancer and he gained it back 1 second after the attack I stopped playing
Like here is an exemple...AOC..its the most expensive game ever...any amount of money you pay for it its already too mutch...the game is that bad...but thats just my opinion...and im not going on the AOC forums saying that...if i dont like it i dont even talk about it...only if i like something i will post and talk about...
I agree with the general idea of what you said.
However, you just did post about not liking it.. so you did talk about it (AoC).
What you said in general is correct. If someone likes a game that really is all that matters. If someone else doesn't like MO and you do.. it won't make the game "less". If you didn't like it and someone else did.. it won't make it better.
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We know hardcore fanboys always give reasonable arguments. Its a fact. Everyone should listen to them.
/sarcasm
I have already bought it but I still think it is too expensive. I dont think it is good to come of in front of your future customer base as a money-grabbing corp, that has most likely discouraged alot of people from buying this game and there is no justification for it. There was one limited edition, the loot bag, and they could have charged whatever they wanted for it because it is a limited edition. But there is no excuse for charging higher than the normal price for the normal boxed version, none.
Actually there is, mate; I called the boxed edition a 'limited edition' before, but that was misleading to you perhaps, what I ment was; 'special edition'. Because that is exactly what it is. It is an expensive, metal box, made in very small numbers compared to the 'normal boxes' of big releases. This ofcourse means (and what has been said a gazillion times before) that the boxes were quite an investment for SV as an independent developer with no big funds to back them. That + taxes and shipping costs explain the price. So repeat after me; SV is not making a higher profit on the boxed edition, they made them on REQUEST of the fanbase and it's price is fully understandable considering it's costs, taxes and shipping.
And no, "they need the money" is not a justification nor it is an excuse but it is rather an explanation which does not make it ok. Rather that makes things even worse as it signals to potential buyers that the company behind the game are running out of money.
They might or not might need our money badly. What they do need though, is to cover the costs they made with producing that boxed edition. That is why they need it off their shelves. To them it is big money just gathering dust as long as they don't sell them. And yes, indy devs have a much harder time to make ends meet compared to big established developers.
Furthermore the game was advertised, for a long time, as being released "summer 2009". Now, we all know, they have said end of 2009 "oct-dec" so who knows how much more it will get pushed back. I dont think anyone has forgotten the constant delays of Darkfail. So they want more than average price for an MMORPG that may be released in 5-6 months.
This is personal; you bought the box and I bought the box, but the difference between us is that I give jack shit about when this game will be a fully playable, complete game or when exactly the launch will be. As long as it gets there. I bought into the concept of MO which I truly love. To me it is the best blend of roleplaying and pvp friendliness in an mmorpg on paper.
I have not been fully drawn in to any mmorpg I have played in the past 2 years now because of crucial design decisions disapointing me again and again, MO devs have been very clear on game mechanics and the game concept behind it and every time I read up on the available info I almost cried 'Haleluja!', so yes, I love the concept so much that I don't mind to wait a little longer. Actually I hope the devs can allow themselves to take some extra time if they really need to, before they release MO.
All of these are NOT good signs for the last hope we got for an FFA PvP MMORPG. You can pretend it is, but pretending will do nothing about the facts of the current situation.
The only things we know is that pre orders have started when the game went beta and they are trying to get rid of their costly boxes first. A very smart thing for an indy dev without big funds backing them up whether they are in financial trouble or not. We honestly can't tell at this time.
My brand new bloggity blog.
We know hardcore fanboys always give reasonable arguments. Its a fact. Everyone should listen to them.
/sarcasm
We know hardcore fatboys allways whine about anything. In fact its all they do...now go check your whining list and gogogo..do what you do best in life...
Also to add to Darkponies explanation about the Boxed Edition being a "limited edition" which it is, the reason you will not see MO on shelves of like gamestop or any store distributing companies is because they are going for a more mature game which includes full frontal nudity so if the ESRB had to rate the game more than likely it would be a adult only game instead of mature only game. The boxes are for the true followers of the game that is why Starvault made them. Bitching about the price after you have bought it is just stupid you already put the money forth so whats the point? if it was really that big of a deal you should of just not ordered.
Thanks for proving my point. lol
This is the reason why everyone should avoid fanboys and their opinions like plague.
We know hardcore fanboys always give reasonable arguments. Its a fact. Everyone should listen to them.
/sarcasm
We know hardcore fatboys allways whine about anything. In fact its all they do...now go check your whining list and gogogo..do what you do best in life...
Thanks for proving my point. lol
This is the reason why everyone should avoid fanboys and their opinions like plague.
Agreed.
If you want the least accurate opinion about a game then ask a fanboy. Second least accurate, ask a hater and best accurate opinion a normal customer that plays the game rather than engage in flamewars.
Unfourtanetely they are the hardest to find on a forum for obvious reasons
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The only people who are "bitching" or "whining" are you fanboys. Us others are just stating our opinions that we feel the game was overpriced. It is you guys who cant accept other peoples opinions so you call it bitching and whining where in fact it is you who are doing that.
As for buying something overpriced. Have you never bought something that you want that is overpriced? If not then good for you but many others pay extra for something they want, but that does not prevent them from thinking it was expensive. E.g. my car was expensive and not the best economical car to buy but yet I bought it anyway because I wanted that car. But I still think its an expensive, and in our country, an overpriced car
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The only people who are "bitching" or "whining" are you fanboys. Us others are just stating our opinions that we feel the game was overpriced. It is you guys who cant accept other peoples opinions so you call it bitching and whining where in fact it is you who are doing that.
As for buying something overpriced. Have you never bought something that you want that is overpriced? If not then good for you but many others pay extra for something they want, but that does not prevent them from thinking it was expensive. E.g. my car was expensive and not the best economical car to buy but yet I bought it anyway because I wanted that car. But I still think its an expensive, and in our country, an overpriced car
I consider what your doing bitching or trolling because even with Darkpony's constructive posts explaining why the boxed ver is not over priced you don't give any actual argument back stating why it isn't a good price. Like this post of yours.
Originally posted by Yamota
Who are you to state those things as a fact? Are you representing Star Vault? No, you are just a clown that think you are representing Star Vault.
They have been asking for boxes? Did they, whoever they are, also ask the boxes to be overpriced? This last statement is that of a hater
You keep saying that the normal boxed version is a limited edition box yet in the store it clearly says that only the loot bag is. So either put up some facts supporting that or stfu. He has put on some facts and so have I, there are only 9000 boxes that they ordered, and to bypass the ESRB they are not going to sell this game through game distributers.
We can get a moderaly priced digital download soon... define soon and how do you know this as a fact? You can actually get the Digital Download sometime today
We are not paying for beta? Ok so if this is not paid beta then what is it? It cant be a pre order of the game since preorders ARE CHARGED WHEN THE FINAL GAME IS SHIPPED. So what is it? Paid beta... you have even mentioned yourself that they need the money to finish the game and the game is in beta so by simple deductive reasoning then it is PAID BETA. It is not a paid beta, your just looking for faults. We all payed for the final product just a months in advance to reserve a spot to get into the game when the game is released for one and we will have actual discs in our hands to install part of the game so we wont have to download the whole game so we wont have to deal with as much bandwith issues if they arise. Yes they need money to finish the game and some of its followers are glad to pay before hand for the game to give them the help they need.
SV isnt being greedy? Oh really. Do you know that most private corporations has an obligation not only to any possibly stockholders but also for the investor TO MAKE PROFIT. That is how capitalism works. You sell products and you make profit, or you go bankrupt. To make profit you need to be greedy, in a way, and as far as I know Starvault is not a state backed company nor is it an ideal organisation. SO THEY NEED TO MAKE PROFIT. Imma give you a little lession on what exactly greed means, it means excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves. Sure it is a buisness and they "need" to make money to make either their investors happy also their employees, they also need money to finish the game and to begin on expansions which they obviously have plans for. Learn what a word means before using that word, you have contradicted yourself a few times in your post claiming they are greedy but they need the money which means they are not greedy.
I consider what your doing bitching or trolling because even with Darkpony's constructive posts explaining why the boxed ver is not over priced you don't give any actual argument back stating why it isn't a good price. Like this post of yours.
I have repeteadly given an argument why it is overpriced, maybe you should learn how to read or better yet learn to see beyond your extremely narrow point of view.
Dark Ponys argument lies in the following:
1. VAT
2. Box
3. Shipping
4. Limited edition
1,2,3 I have refuted by saying that in the same country that the game is developed, the prices of a regular PC game is about 50% less and since 1-3 applies to them as well then those arguments are void. And at the same time shows that Mortal Online is indeed overpriced.
The 4 is the only one that might be considered feasible, but on their very website it clearly says that the the Loot Bag is the limited edition and not the boxed version. Why? Because by definition you cannot later sell something that previously was marked as limited edition so they intentionally did not mark it as such. That means that probably we will see the boxed version when the game is released.
Furthermore, if their customer did indeed "ask" for these boxes then they could have offered digital copies as well. Because surely they asked for it then they would buy it, mm? But instead they are making sure that only the boxed version is available and with the fleeting statement that IF there are any copies left then you could buy a digital one come July 20th. That is one clever marketing scheme because that gives you the illusion that you better buy these boxed versions now or risk to miss out on, not only the beta, but also the final launch since they have said that 10.000 is what they will support on their first server and then open more "later".
So stfu pls about me not providing arguments for it, I have, but just because you dont agree with them does not mean I haven't presented any.
Originally posted by Yamota
Who are you to state those things as a fact? Are you representing Star Vault? No, you are just a clown that think you are representing Star Vault.
They have been asking for boxes? Did they, whoever they are, also ask the boxes to be overpriced? This last statement is that of a hater
Statement of a hater? Wow, what an argument you got there. Care to say why that statement is that of a hater? Did the people asking for boxes also ask them to be overpriced? Rethorical question but not sure where "hating" is involved.
You keep saying that the normal boxed version is a limited edition box yet in the store it clearly says that only the loot bag is. So either put up some facts supporting that or stfu. He has put on some facts and so have I, there are only 9000 boxes that they ordered, and to bypass the ESRB they are not going to sell this game through game distributers.
Not sure what kind of definition of facts you have but it is usually not the same thing as just stating something that cannot be backed with something credible (like a statement from the devs). There are 9000 boxes now, that does not mean there will be more boxed when the game is actually released, and that would make it not a limited edition which is most likely why it is not marked as a limited edition in the store and that is what matters. So unless it is stated that the boxed version is a limited edition (by them not by you) then you got nothing to back that statement.
Also, it would be nice to see a dev quote for that ESRB thing you mentioned becuase if not then that is also then pure speculation.
We can get a moderaly priced digital download soon... define soon and how do you know this as a fact? You can actually get the Digital Download sometime today
Link?
We are not paying for beta? Ok so if this is not paid beta then what is it? It cant be a pre order of the game since preorders ARE CHARGED WHEN THE FINAL GAME IS SHIPPED. So what is it? Paid beta... you have even mentioned yourself that they need the money to finish the game and the game is in beta so by simple deductive reasoning then it is PAID BETA. It is not a paid beta, your just looking for faults. We all payed for the final product just a months in advance to reserve a spot to get into the game when the game is released for one and we will have actual discs in our hands to install part of the game so we wont have to download the whole game so we wont have to deal with as much bandwith issues if they arise. Yes they need money to finish the game and some of its followers are glad to pay before hand for the game to give them the help they need.
Still did not answer what it is if it is not paid beta. It cannot be pre-order since pre-orders are charged when the final game is shipped so again I ask, if not paid beta then what is it?
And I am not looking for faults, I am telling things as it is. I pay, I get into beta and then in maybe 5-6 months I get to play the game. That sounds like paid beta plus the game whenever it is released.
SV isnt being greedy? Oh really. Do you know that most private corporations has an obligation not only to any possibly stockholders but also for the investor TO MAKE PROFIT. That is how capitalism works. You sell products and you make profit, or you go bankrupt. To make profit you need to be greedy, in a way, and as far as I know Starvault is not a state backed company nor is it an ideal organisation. SO THEY NEED TO MAKE PROFIT. Imma give you a little lession on what exactly greed means, it means excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves. Sure it is a buisness and they "need" to make money to make either their investors happy also their employees, they also need money to finish the game and to begin on expansions which they obviously have plans for. Learn what a word means before using that word, you have contradicted yourself a few times in your post claiming they are greedy but they need the money which means they are not greedy.
haha, where did you find that quoute in the dictionary? Excessive is entirely subjective and unless you have the actual projected balance sheet of Starvault finances then how can you know if it even is excessive or not.
To make a profit by definition means to make more money than you need, hence why u make a profit and the more profit, the better and hence where greed comes in. Greed is what fuels capitalism, morally wrong or right (I say wrong, but that is how it is). Do you think that their investors, or even themselves do this for their health? Hell no, they are doing it to earn money, and hopefully lots of it. The game industry is one of the most lucrative industries in the world and people are in it for the PROFIT, not only but that is one of the main reasons.
But by all means, keep on living in your fairy tale where game developers just scrape by and their investors are not doing it to get rich but to make the world a better place. LOL
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I consider what your doing bitching or trolling because even with Darkpony's constructive posts explaining why the boxed ver is not over priced you don't give any actual argument back stating why it isn't a good price. Like this post of yours.
I have repeteadly given an argument why it is overpriced, maybe you should learn how to read or better yet learn to see beyond your extremely narrow point of view.
Dark Ponys argument lies in the following:
1. VAT
2. Box
3. Shipping
4. Limited edition
1,2,3 I have refuted by saying that in the same country that the game is developed, the prices of a regular PC game is about 50% less and since 1-3 applies to them as well then those arguments are void. And at the same time shows that Mortal Online is indeed overpriced.
The 4 is the only one that might be considered feasible, but on their very website it clearly says that the the Loot Bag is the limited edition and not the boxed version. Why? Because by definition you cannot later sell something that previously was marked as limited edition so they intentionally did not mark it as such. That means that probably we will see the boxed version when the game is released.
Furthermore, if their customer did indeed "ask" for these boxes then they could have offered digital copies as well. Because surely they asked for it then they would buy it, mm? But instead they are making sure that only the boxed version is available and with the fleeting statement that IF there are any copies left then you could buy a digital one come July 20th. That is one clever marketing scheme because that gives you the illusion that you better buy these boxed versions now or risk to miss out on, not only the beta, but also the final launch since they have said that 10.000 is what they will support on their first server and then open more "later".
So stfu pls about me not providing arguments for it, I have, but just because you dont agree with them does not mean I haven't presented any.
Originally posted by Yamota
Who are you to state those things as a fact? Are you representing Star Vault? No, you are just a clown that think you are representing Star Vault.
They have been asking for boxes? Did they, whoever they are, also ask the boxes to be overpriced? This last statement is that of a hater
Statement of a hater? Wow, what an argument you got there. Care to say why that statement is that of a hater? Did the people asking for boxes also ask them to be overpriced? Rethorical question but not sure where "hating" is involved.
You keep saying that the normal boxed version is a limited edition box yet in the store it clearly says that only the loot bag is. So either put up some facts supporting that or stfu. He has put on some facts and so have I, there are only 9000 boxes that they ordered, and to bypass the ESRB they are not going to sell this game through game distributers.
Not sure what kind of definition of facts you have but it is usually not the same thing as just stating something that cannot be backed with something credible (like a statement from the devs). There are 9000 boxes now, that does not mean there will be more boxed when the game is actually released, and that would make it not a limited edition which is most likely why it is not marked as a limited edition in the store and that is what matters. So unless it is stated that the boxed version is a limited edition (by them not by you) then you got nothing to back that statement.
Also, it would be nice to see a dev quote for that ESRB thing you mentioned becuase if not then that is also then pure speculation.
We can get a moderaly priced digital download soon... define soon and how do you know this as a fact? You can actually get the Digital Download sometime today
Link?
We are not paying for beta? Ok so if this is not paid beta then what is it? It cant be a pre order of the game since preorders ARE CHARGED WHEN THE FINAL GAME IS SHIPPED. So what is it? Paid beta... you have even mentioned yourself that they need the money to finish the game and the game is in beta so by simple deductive reasoning then it is PAID BETA. It is not a paid beta, your just looking for faults. We all payed for the final product just a months in advance to reserve a spot to get into the game when the game is released for one and we will have actual discs in our hands to install part of the game so we wont have to download the whole game so we wont have to deal with as much bandwith issues if they arise. Yes they need money to finish the game and some of its followers are glad to pay before hand for the game to give them the help they need.
Still did not answer what it is if it is not paid beta. It cannot be pre-order since pre-orders are charged when the final game is shipped so again I ask, if not paid beta then what is it?
And I am not looking for faults, I am telling things as it is. I pay, I get into beta and then in maybe 5-6 months I get to play the game. That sounds like paid beta plus the game whenever it is released.
SV isnt being greedy? Oh really. Do you know that most private corporations has an obligation not only to any possibly stockholders but also for the investor TO MAKE PROFIT. That is how capitalism works. You sell products and you make profit, or you go bankrupt. To make profit you need to be greedy, in a way, and as far as I know Starvault is not a state backed company nor is it an ideal organisation. SO THEY NEED TO MAKE PROFIT. Imma give you a little lession on what exactly greed means, it means excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves. Sure it is a buisness and they "need" to make money to make either their investors happy also their employees, they also need money to finish the game and to begin on expansions which they obviously have plans for. Learn what a word means before using that word, you have contradicted yourself a few times in your post claiming they are greedy but they need the money which means they are not greedy.
haha, where did you find that quoute in the dictionary? Excessive is entirely subjective and unless you have the actual projected balance sheet of Starvault finances then how can you know if it even is excessive or not.
To make a profit by definition means to make more money than you need, hence why u make a profit and the more profit, the better and hence where greed comes in. Greed is what fuels capitalism, morally wrong or right (I say wrong, but that is how it is). Do you think that their investors, or even themselves do this for their health? Hell no, they are doing it to earn money, and hopefully lots of it. The game industry is one of the most lucrative industries in the world and people are in it for the PROFIT, not only but that is one of the main reasons.
But by all means, keep on living in your fairy tale where game developers just scrape by and their investors are not doing it to get rich but to make the world a better place. LOL
Ok the arguments 1-3 are not void, we are not talking about a regular game here, this game will never see store shelves it will only be an online order. Sure you got stiffed on the shipping a little bit if your in Europe, the VAT has nothing to do with Starvault pushing the price up thats your Government, The box is a limited number of boxes that cost more than usually because they didn't mass produce them. Comparing this box to a random game you can pick up at a game distributer thats made of paper and is flimsy is no contest, you cant compare the 2. So like I said your argument holds no wieght, you are basically baseing your argument off of I should get a price match because this game costs 50 bucks but it isnt the same game nor does it include the same contents.
Yes a hater, your obviously set in your idea that this game is overpriced and Starvault is a greedy company no matter what, from what you have demonstrated in this thread no matter how DarkPony or me try and illuminate the reasons for the cost its just not good enough for you.
Ill give you the it might not be a limited edition for now, but truly at the moment from everything that has happened and considering the outburst of omg this is so overpriced threads I seriously doubt that they will sell more. Also about the ESRB thing its an obvious thing that will happen, they have announced they are aiming for 18+ category and if they do release it in stores because of full nudity it will be deemed by the ESRB an adult only game. So they will avoid that.
Oh and heres your link of a dev saying today -
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/17645-digital-download.html
This is another thing your dead set about, you are so set on the fact that a pre-order is basically just putting your name on a list that you are willing to buy this game in the future, just because most places don't charge until near the time the game is shipped to you doesn't mean that other places won't charge you for the actual up front cost. Pre-Order means ordering the object before it is released, thats it, it has nothing to do with store policy or anything like that. Store policy dictates whether or not they charge you up front or when they are about to ship the product. Also follow your thoughts of show me a dev said it, its obvious that the devs have said if you pre order this you get the game! not just beta.
Also for your last retort that I don't have access to Starvaults finacials, guess what neither do you so you calling them greedy is guess what specufuckinglation.
I also never said that the developers scrape by they get paid to do this I said it was a buisness, but that does not mean they are being greedy. If they were truly that greedy they could easily charge extra for future expansions they could put in a cash shop to buy uber gear or special additions to a house or what not. I am baseing my idea on greedy at the MMO's that have released before and so far MO doesn't seem that greedy to me.
This I just had to add in an edit since I re-read your post.
Do you think that their investors, or even themselves do this for their health? Hell no, they are doing it to earn money, and hopefully lots of it.
Ok so with your mindset anyone who is trying to make a profit in this world is greedy because thats how your coming off. People are trying to make a living if they have the experience and the knowledge to make a game and sell it than good for them they put their dedication into learning how to achieve this, just like I'm a freelance graphic designer I charge people not neccesarily only for the time I takes me to make their page but also for the time I spent to learn to do professional graphics.
Oh and heres your link of a dev saying today -
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/17645-digital-download.html
I hate to jump into such a wonderful arguement but for accuracy I should point out that on your link, that's a forum moderator (who is a 19 year old living in Florida, many miles from Star Vault) not a game developer, making that comment.
Aight thanks but it shouldn't matter since its common knowledge on the forums so Yamato should know already, or hes just that lazy.
Yamota said "You know there is a thing called "free speech". And even though it is not completely free on a public forum like this then, so far, it is still allowed to say that an MMORPG that cost aprox $95 (that is what I paid) is expensive."
Irony: Yamota arguing that the price of the product he already bought is too high and that everyone is being overcharged!!
Does this seem a bit off-kilter to anyone? Argue that what you paid for is over priced after you paid for it? That really does boggle my mind and I can't see any logic in the argument. So just what are you trying to prove or start here Yamota?
Looks to me like you are only trying to start a flame war for a game you have already paid $95 dollars for as you posted in another thread? Just can't figure that out.
Sure you aren't related to Darth or Javac?
Ok the arguments 1-3 are not void, we are not talking about a regular game here, this game will never see store shelves it will only be an online order. Sure you got stiffed on the shipping a little bit if your in Europe, the VAT has nothing to do with Starvault pushing the price up thats your Government, The box is a limited number of boxes that cost more than usually because they didn't mass produce them. Comparing this box to a random game you can pick up at a game distributer thats made of paper and is flimsy is no contest, you cant compare the 2. So like I said your argument holds no wieght, you are basically baseing your argument off of I should get a price match because this game costs 50 bucks but it isnt the same game nor does it include the same contents.
Ok, I have repeteadly asked for some kind of evidence of even indication from the devs that this game would indeed never be sold in the normal box, yet I have not seen any, so until I do then it is pure speculation/fabrication on your part and the argument is void.
I mean, have you even seen the box to claim that it costs so much to produce? And if so that still does not explain why they didn't offer a digital download as well as a limited edition. They claimed that would be available on july 20th if there were any copies left but lo behold, it is july 21th and no words on if all copies were sold and if there will be a digital download or not. Which proves again that you cannot just take something at face value but rather have to be critical of what the devs say, or not say.
Yes a hater, your obviously set in your idea that this game is overpriced and Starvault is a greedy company no matter what, from what you have demonstrated in this thread no matter how DarkPony or me try and illuminate the reasons for the cost its just not good enough for you.
I have been around a while you know, been a gamer for 25 years and played MMORPGs for 10 years so excuse me for not taking something that a couple of forum clowns say as the "truth". As for hater, whatever, I am as much a hater as you are a fanboy. Fair enough?
Yet amazingly I paid for the beta and I dont regret doing so, however I dont see everything in the rozy light as you guys do. I believe the game is overpriced and I believe that charging for a game that is not to be released for another 5-6 months is not good bussiness. If that makes me a "hater", then so be it.
Ill give you the it might not be a limited edition for now, but truly at the moment from everything that has happened and considering the outburst of omg this is so overpriced threads I seriously doubt that they will sell more. Also about the ESRB thing its an obvious thing that will happen, they have announced they are aiming for 18+ category and if they do release it in stores because of full nudity it will be deemed by the ESRB an adult only game. So they will avoid that.
ESRB is mainly an american rating system and not so widely known in the rest of the world. AoC had some major violence (decapitations, lots of blood) and nudity yet the game was sold as a boxed version. So this is still pure speculation on your part.
Oh and heres your link of a dev saying today -
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/17645-digital-download.html
Ok, lets see if it happens and how many copies are indeed available.
This is another thing your dead set about, you are so set on the fact that a pre-order is basically just putting your name on a list that you are willing to buy this game in the future, just because most places don't charge until near the time the game is shipped to you doesn't mean that other places won't charge you for the actual up front cost. Pre-Order means ordering the object before it is released, thats it, it has nothing to do with store policy or anything like that. Store policy dictates whether or not they charge you up front or when they are about to ship the product. Also follow your thoughts of show me a dev said it, its obvious that the devs have said if you pre order this you get the game! not just beta.
First of all every pre-order i have ever heard of charges the game when it is shipped so I am not deadset about it, that is just how it is done.
Second of all I did not say you get just the beta, I have specifically said that you get the beta AND get to play the game in 5-6 months or whenever it is released. Hence it is paid beta, even if you do get to play the game when it is released.
Also for your last retort that I don't have access to Starvaults finacials, guess what neither do you so you calling them greedy is guess what specufuckinglation.
Not sure what specufuckinglation means but yeah, I dont know for a fact that Starvault is greedy, and never said I did, however it is a fact that capitalism fuels on greed. If you dont realise that then that is your problem.
I also never said that the developers scrape by they get paid to do this I said it was a buisness, but that does not mean they are being greedy. If they were truly that greedy they could easily charge extra for future expansions they could put in a cash shop to buy uber gear or special additions to a house or what not. I am baseing my idea on greedy at the MMO's that have released before and so far MO doesn't seem that greedy to me.
Like I said, it is subjective. Some people feel Bill Gates isn't greedy *shrug*. The main reason I say they are greedy is that they are charging 50% more than a standard boxed, PC game for a game not released for another 5-6 months which is completely unheard of for me. That for me is greedy, for you not. Whatever.
This I just had to add in an edit since I re-read your post.
Do you think that their investors, or even themselves do this for their health? Hell no, they are doing it to earn money, and hopefully lots of it.
Ok so with your mindset anyone who is trying to make a profit in this world is greedy because thats how your coming off. People are trying to make a living if they have the experience and the knowledge to make a game and sell it than good for them they put their dedication into learning how to achieve this, just like I'm a freelance graphic designer I charge people not neccesarily only for the time I takes me to make their page but also for the time I spent to learn to do professional graphics.
Like I said above, it is not just the fact that they want to make profit that see them as greed but also the fact that they are charging well over the standard price for a game not released yet and they want to make sure that people buy their overpriced boxed version by not providing a digital download.
If the game was released then one might call that clever marketing but seeing as the bloody thing is still in early beta I call that greed. Heck even if it was released I have never heard of charging 50% more for a version and not offer any alternatives except: You maybe can get a digital download if all the boxes aren't sold out.
Never have I bought a game with such a marketing scheme and for me that smells like greed. Could be desperation as well if they are completely dry in finances but that is not much better.
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Dude...
Lets talk with facts about the price.
You say its 50% more expensive than normal box.
1) The price includes 11 Euros for transport fees.
2) The price includes free shipment of all patches on a DVD
3) The price includes 1 month of playtime after launch.
4) The current number of boxes is well under 9000. This means the box you buy is not normal box but rather CE type of box. Not to mention the box is metalic.
5) Devs have explained that making such low number of boxes is much more expensive than making huge number of boxes (6000 vs 200 000 for example)
If on top of this you add the beta access I think what you get is very reasonable price.
HOWEVER. Lets assume that still you think the price is high and SV are greedy bastards. Guess what...no one is forcing you to buy MO...its your choice to do so. You can completely freely go and buy the box version of WoW for 20-40 bucks.
The funny part is that he already bought it and is still bitching about the price. See my post above.
The funny part is that he already bought it and is still bitching about the price. See my post above.
Yea hes been called out on it from both me and DarkPony about it, but I'm done no point in trying to debate with someone who continually contradicts himself and than tries to play it off.
I've got a question before I take off tho Yamato with all the responses about wheres the Dev post, you sure spend a lot of time looking at these forums rather than just searching over at the MO forums, which really shows me that you probably had no idea what you were buying and once you saw the price you were outraged so now your just angry.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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go away troll
go away troll
Yeah, he should go upload another 12 AOC screens. Screen capping is about the most exciting thing to do in THAT game.
My brand new bloggity blog.
go away troll
Yeah, he should go upload another 12 AOC screens. Screen capping is about the most exciting thing to do in THAT game.
Yea as soon as I saw my most powerful attack at lvl 80 do maybe 20% damage on a necromancer and he gained it back 1 second after the attack I stopped playing
I agree with the general idea of what you said.
However, you just did post about not liking it.. so you did talk about it (AoC).
What you said in general is correct. If someone likes a game that really is all that matters. If someone else doesn't like MO and you do.. it won't make the game "less". If you didn't like it and someone else did.. it won't make it better.
So I agree there.