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Holy Crap I was right! Rahm DOES want to control prices of health care!
Faxxer
Member Posts: 3,247
The sad part is i was only half serious when i said it on some other thread...
It's sad that the conservatives are turning out to be more right than ever thought possible...you liberals should be afraid that your very way of life is about to be taken from you
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D99GD8QG2&show_article=1
WASHINGTON (AP) - The White House is asking Congress to give the executive branch more power to limit Medicare's rising costs.
A White House letter to top lawmakers on Friday said the move would be "a critical step forward" in controlling health care costs and providing better care.
The proposal would allow an independent advisory board to recommend changes in Medicare reimbursement rates for doctors, hospitals and other providers. If the president approved the recommendations, Congress could still vote to reject them altogether. But Congress could not approve some recommendations and reject others.
Currently, Medicare reimbursement rates vary from region to region. Key lawmakers often get involved in setting local rates, a practice the Obama administration plan would end.
When does the power grab end? When you, the reader, are completely subdued?
Comments
Its ok. Obama Is the Messiah. He would never make a power grab that makes all the ones Bush pulled off look small... wait.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
To me thats too much a grab for power. The executive branch controlling a part of government with no checks and balances is simply ludicrous.
It is becoming totally, and completely, absurd. Totally absurd. This "anti-government" theme among conservatives is increasingly embarrassing for me to watch. Listen. It is like the anticommunism and isolationism agenda of the beginning, I do not know, around 1950. Simply put, it is a cultural backlash, similar to how it was about:
It was about so-called
Republicans know how to exploit the cultural anxieties --hippies, welfare, crime, health care, etc.-- into getting people to vote for them and then, ironically, grow and expand the role government.
When it comes to creating a competitive private health care option, we are hearing things about "control" of health care. When it comes to actually HELPING LITTLE PEOPLE (or "average" people or "regular" or "sixpack" or "Joe Plumber something") it is about "control." When it comes to shipping them, drafting, sending them to fight, taking-away their rights, reducing competition, subsidizing agribusiness, and so forth . . . it is not.
The Republican Party is not a party.
The Republican Party are masters "dog-whistle politics" - saying things to appeal to groups in a way that only those targeted groups hear, and thereby avoiding the extremism of their positions.
"control"
"welfare queen"
etc.
Yeah. So what's the answer?
Have you ever heard of the Libertarian Party? Some people call us "Constitutionalists". We believe in self-determination, a hands off approach from government, low low low (or no) taxes, and a general sense of the government being just a necessary evil in only very select situations.
You should read up on us if you haven't already. America used to be a great and free country. Now we're a bunch of whiners in the public and a federal government that is more than willing to steal from one group to provide for another.
Libertarian Party Website
CATO.org - Libertarian Think Tank Organization (GREAT stuff here!!!!!)
===============================
Don't forget the famous one they used during the 1988 election: Willie Horton.
They sure know how to ring the town bell and get the townfolk all riled up.
"TO MICHAEL!"
What is it with people that makes them hate taxes so much, that makes them froth from the mouth at the thought of helping a less fortunate person out? The idea of equality through equal opportunity is not only flawed but selfish, isn’t a common motto in America “no man left behind”? Why does that stick for people in the military but as soon as it comes to giving the poor health-care they are highway robbers caring for no-one but themselves. Which I find ironic because the people that say this are basically saying their money is more important than a human life, this isn’t even money they need to pay for necessities it is luxury money so they maybe can’t buy their 60 inch screen television, selfish.
What is with the anti-government paranoia as well? You trust a corporation that has profits as their priorities more. Maybe if populations were responsible enough and active they would realise that they can change the government. A countries government (well a democratic one) is nothing but an extension of its people, if you can’t trust it and keep it in check how can you be trusted govern yourself for it is merely a extension of you.
"A stupid idea to you is the memory of a lifetime for me"
It says in your profile that you are 18 years old. I don't know if you are still being supported by your parents or not, but even if you are not, I would say you are not yet old enough to understand what it means to have the government take from you what you have worked to earn for yourself. It also says you live in Canada and perhaps you have been raised to believe that it is patriotic to give a large share of your hard earned dollars to the government because it believes it can spend your money more wisely that you.
You are just getting out in the real world and unless you come from an extremely wealthy family, you are going to learn what it means to go to work day in and day out to earn enough money to try to make a decent living. And after you have worked and received your paycheck, you look at your pay stub and see that, depending on where you live, local, state, federal and compulsory retirement has taken maybe 40-50% (maybe more, maybe less depending on how much you make). And that's just income taxes. You still are going to be paying taxes out of what you take home. Property taxes, whether you own or rent. If you own a home, you will pay property taxes directly to your local government. If you rent, you are still going to pay it, your landlord factors that into your rent. Sales taxes, excise taxes, etc. All those taxes and here in the United States, our governments are still unable to balance their books.
If you want to help others less fortunate than yourself, I think that's great. I encourage you to and applaud you for it. But that's a decision that is best left to the individual. It's not for the government to say, "we are going to force you to help others and take it from you whether you want us to or not." And even though they do, it's a very inefficient method of helping others. A large percentage of the money taken by the government is consumed by the bureaucracy that has to be established to dole out the money to the less fortunate. On top of that people find ways to defraud these programs and a large amount gets wasted.
Believe me, there are better ways to improve society than having the government do it.
The government never uses tax dollars to help "the less fortunate". If anything, it seems like the more money that is given, the least amount of "help" is given; See FEMA, Hurricane Katrina :Section B, Article 2
The government can't keep the homeless off the streets and safe, it's usually left to the local churches or community organizations, which by the way, do not pay taxes (usually). Nearly every state I go to has awful road conditions, poor housing and obvious abuse of the eminent domain practice. If you don't know what eminent domain is, just look up horror stories on youtube.
The more taxes/money involved, the more bureaucracy/scams is what you get in return. Because the more there is, the less oversight there is.
You, as a citizen, have no way of seeing in proof and writing of where Your taxes went and how they were used. It just "goes" somewhere, and we all assume that it went into spending for something valuable, which it often does not. Today, it seems as if taxes are collected in spite, and they continually enforce more and more, creating heavy draconian penalties on something they can't even account for. They just want it, period. They don't care where it goes, but you better pay, or else.
You've got the right idea and I am encouraged when I read people who are the future think this way. It shows that there are still people who the capitalistic television messages of "get more, own more" aren't getting through. I particularly like how you hit the nail right on the head: corporations and huge companies who are only out for profit. Those are the ones manipulating it all with advertising and deregulations.
Plenty of people whine about the governemnt "taking their hard earned money away", then these same people sit in traffic and whine because there aren't enough lanes open or cry because of potholes. Where do they think that money comes from? Taxes. They cry about mail service when the stamp goes up 2 friggin cents, even though to mail a letter across the country costs them 44 cents or overseas about one dollar. Same people who complain about crime and police, yet cry about tax hikes to pay for more cops to patrol or more firemen to put out fires. They take their clues from the usual talking heads who are already multimillionaires.
The funny thing is: only 1.8% of Americans are even in the bracket where they should be crying about taxes. Most of the others are at much lower rates not only compared to the rich, but to other people overseas in many countries as well.
"TO MICHAEL!"
In other words, you trust the power motive more than the profit motive. Gotta disagree with you there. Thankfully, this nation was founded by people who disagreed with you as well.
Democracy without strict limitations is rule by the mob. That is why this nation was created as a constitutional republic, with democracy being the method we choose our servants, the government. What keeps us free are the very strict limitations placed on them by our constitution. Every freedom we have lost has been the product of loose interpretation of that amazing document.
People mistrustful of government are not necessarily paranoid, unless you consider George Washington, John Jay, John Locke, Thomas Jefferson, John Stewart Mill, Jeremy Bentham, and pretty much the entire enlightenment movement, as paranoid. They were much more mistrustful of governments than anyone we see posting here. Either way it is best not to attack other people with whom you disagree by implying they are mentally ill. That is what as known as ad hominem, and it belongs in the schoolyard, not in reasonable discussion.
If we look at the history of the world, the people after money have been saints compared with the people after power. Granted, many have been after both, but look at the worst dictators in history. NONE cared about money. No, they each claimed and seemed to have what they felt was a "higher calling," and that calling could only be found in government.
I'll take fifty crooked businessmen over any would-be tyrant any day.
fishermage.blogspot.com
You've got the right idea and I am encouraged when I read people who are the future think this way. It shows that there are still people who the capitalistic television messages of "get more, own more" aren't getting through. I particularly like how you hit the nail right on the head: corporations and huge companies who are only out for profit. Those are the ones manipulating it all with advertising and deregulations.
Plenty of people whine about the governemnt "taking their hard earned money away", then these same people sit in traffic and whine because there aren't enough lanes open or cry because of potholes. Where do they think that money comes from? Taxes. They cry about mail service when the stamp goes up 2 friggin cents, even though to mail a letter across the country costs them 44 cents or overseas about one dollar. Same people who complain about crime and police, yet cry about tax hikes to pay for more cops to patrol or more firemen to put out fires. They take their clues from the usual talking heads who are already multimillionaires.
The funny thing is: only 1.8% of Americans are even in the bracket where they should be crying about taxes. Most of the others are at much lower rates not only compared to the rich, but to other people overseas in many countries as well.
I am glad that God has notified you personally and informed you how much money was enough money for a person to have. At least, He must have, since you seem to know who should be "crying about taxes." Thus far he has not communicated such to me, and has left it to my reason, and my reason tells me that is none of my business.
This is not about taxes as such, as you know, but once again are willfully misleading folks, it's about the nature of government in a free society. People feel differently about this. You are a democratic socialist; I am a libertarian. Some here are conservatives, others are liberals. each of us has our own views that we have come to through a process of personal reason.
I doubt anyone here believes the way they do because they are "crying about taxes." They believe the way they do because they believe THEY are more qualified with determining what they should do with what they have earned than YOU or a government is.
You, on the other hand, seem to believe that anyone who can get a big enough gang together and vote on it, can do whatever they want with the minority. "Yup, we five agreed, and we think you make too much money, and we are gonna take your stuff. We can do it because we voted on it."
That's how people like me see your "democratic socialism." It is a disagreement about the principles by which people should exchange wealth. You favor votes and force, we favor trade and liberty. Different strokes for different strokes, but we really should stick to the actual difference of opinion and avoid assuming the opposition come to their heartfelt conclusions out of greed.
It's simply another ad hominem attack and doesn't belong in real discussions about serious issues.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Great question indeed. Did you have something to say or just waste our time?
I like free healthcare for all Americans.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Great question indeed. Did you have something to say or just waste our time?
I like free healthcare for all Americans.
There is no such thing.
fishermage.blogspot.com
That's because the people you mentioned experienced tyranny firsthand. Most of us today have witnessed nothing close to what they lived through. However, if things continue down the path they are currently on, we may have the unfortunate opportunity to experience a government very similiar to what the founders had.
And on the power vs money thing, so many people love to decry the evils of money, but the reason chasing power is so much worse is because it gives its possessor the ability to control other peoples' lives. Money offers freedom and the possibility of excess and some power to a certain extent, but nothing close to absolute power. If Adolf Hitler had been a tycoon rather than a dictator, he could have splurged to his heart's content. But he could not have murdered the millions that he was able to as a dictator.
If Congress gives in to the president on this issue (bear in mind that I'm no fan of entitlement spending no matter who controls it), it might as well just cede all power to him. Just because its memebers are of the same party as him, I can't believe they would forfeit their Congressional power and allow the office of the presidency to become even more powerful. This is on top of the large power grab the president has already made.
You people act like we have any power as is.
Let alone congress.
Besides in the end what does it matter? Can it be stopped? Halted?
Hardly.
Look at all the years of Bush, Clinton, Bush show?
The people have no power.
So what if the president becomes some supreme dictator it's not like the system can get anymore bloody f'ed in a.
You know that thing ... How the entire world has called us Imperialists?
Wake up. We're an empire.
It's like WoW 90% of the world can't be wrong. Stupid, yes. Right , yes.
You right wingers can blame the left now, and lefist enjoy blaming the right. I'm moving to Canada.
Yeah. So what's the answer?
Have you ever heard of the Libertarian Party? Some people call us "Constitutionalists". We believe in self-determination, a hands off approach from government, low low low (or no) taxes, and a general sense of the government being just a necessary evil in only very select situations.
You should read up on us if you haven't already. America used to be a great and free country. Now we're a bunch of whiners in the public and a federal government that is more than willing to steal from one group to provide for another.
Libertarian Party Website
CATO.org - Libertarian Think Tank Organization (GREAT stuff here!!!!!)
Libertanism is, in my opinion, a philosophy of self interest only.
Yeah. So what's the answer?
Have you ever heard of the Libertarian Party? Some people call us "Constitutionalists". We believe in self-determination, a hands off approach from government, low low low (or no) taxes, and a general sense of the government being just a necessary evil in only very select situations.
You should read up on us if you haven't already. America used to be a great and free country. Now we're a bunch of whiners in the public and a federal government that is more than willing to steal from one group to provide for another.
Libertarian Party Website
CATO.org - Libertarian Think Tank Organization (GREAT stuff here!!!!!)
Libertanism is, in my opinion, a philosophy of self interest only.
Libertarianism is a philosophy of limited government and freedom. Self interest may or may not be the motive for the philosophy, and certainly is with Randian and other egoistic forms of libertarianism. Others root their philosophy on natural law, others don't have a motive at all about it and don't judge self interest, and merely assume it as a given.
For other libertarians its about human rights that come from God.
The central idea in LIBERTarianism is LIBERTY, not the self.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Yeah. So what's the answer?
Have you ever heard of the Libertarian Party? Some people call us "Constitutionalists". We believe in self-determination, a hands off approach from government, low low low (or no) taxes, and a general sense of the government being just a necessary evil in only very select situations.
You should read up on us if you haven't already. America used to be a great and free country. Now we're a bunch of whiners in the public and a federal government that is more than willing to steal from one group to provide for another.
Libertarian Party Website
CATO.org - Libertarian Think Tank Organization (GREAT stuff here!!!!!)
Libertanism is, in my opinion, a philosophy of self interest only.
Libertarianism is a philosophy of limited government and freedom. Self interest may or may not be the motive for the philosophy, and certainly is with Randian and other egoistic forms of libertarianism. Others root their philosophy on natural law, others don't have a motive at all about it and don't judge self interest, and merely assume it as a given.
For other libertarians its about human rights that come from God.
The central idea in LIBERTarianism is LIBERTY, not the self.
They lump anyone right of Clinton a greedy, self serving republican. They can't fathom anything else Fisher.
They hide good will in the ideal that someone else should help you out, so they can feel good about themselves. "i feel guilty for having it so good, but i don't want to help that homeless guy out...but hey that guy with that lincoln can afford to, make him help that guy out"
Who wouldn't love the concept of "free healthcare for all!" what a wonderful dream, too bad it's not even close to attainable. But hey, we need to feel good about the idea, right or wrong, succeed or fail, that's more important than reality. It's more important to appear to care than to do something substantive. It's more important to feel good about yourself "well at least we tried to pass free healthcare, but those damn republicans stopped us" << THIS is why republicans won both houses in '94 if you remember. Hillary shoving this crap on us all.... I remember Dan Rather saying that the American people had a "temper tantrum" after that election... I wonder if one liberal on this forum has ever looked at the charts of who gives more liberals, or conservatives. Which side has more use of therapists, Liberals or Conservatives. The list goes on and on, but nevermind, how dare I point out such stuff. I wonder which side depends more on free government aid? It starts to make sense.
Yeah. So what's the answer?
Have you ever heard of the Libertarian Party? Some people call us "Constitutionalists". We believe in self-determination, a hands off approach from government, low low low (or no) taxes, and a general sense of the government being just a necessary evil in only very select situations.
You should read up on us if you haven't already. America used to be a great and free country. Now we're a bunch of whiners in the public and a federal government that is more than willing to steal from one group to provide for another.
Libertarian Party Website
CATO.org - Libertarian Think Tank Organization (GREAT stuff here!!!!!)
Libertanism is, in my opinion, a philosophy of self interest only.
Libertarianism is a philosophy of limited government and freedom. Self interest may or may not be the motive for the philosophy, and certainly is with Randian and other egoistic forms of libertarianism. Others root their philosophy on natural law, others don't have a motive at all about it and don't judge self interest, and merely assume it as a given.
For other libertarians its about human rights that come from God.
The central idea in LIBERTarianism is LIBERTY, not the self.
They lump anyone right of Clinton a greedy, self serving republican. They can't fathom anything else Fisher.
I didn't even mention the words "republican" or "right of clinton", so how about you shut the fuck up?
@Fishermage: While Liberty is part of the identify of libertanism, from my experience, a lot of libertarinism is simply self interest. Me me me me me and the rest can fend for themselves. A world of Libertaranism would be a world ruled by the wealthy eltite.
Libertarianism also has a significant lack of real world success.
Yeah. So what's the answer?
Have you ever heard of the Libertarian Party? Some people call us "Constitutionalists". We believe in self-determination, a hands off approach from government, low low low (or no) taxes, and a general sense of the government being just a necessary evil in only very select situations.
You should read up on us if you haven't already. America used to be a great and free country. Now we're a bunch of whiners in the public and a federal government that is more than willing to steal from one group to provide for another.
Libertarian Party Website
CATO.org - Libertarian Think Tank Organization (GREAT stuff here!!!!!)
Libertanism is, in my opinion, a philosophy of self interest only.
Libertarianism is a philosophy of limited government and freedom. Self interest may or may not be the motive for the philosophy, and certainly is with Randian and other egoistic forms of libertarianism. Others root their philosophy on natural law, others don't have a motive at all about it and don't judge self interest, and merely assume it as a given.
For other libertarians its about human rights that come from God.
The central idea in LIBERTarianism is LIBERTY, not the self.
They lump anyone right of Clinton a greedy, self serving republican. They can't fathom anything else Fisher.
I didn't even mention the words "republican" or "right of clinton", so how about you shut the fuck up?
@Fishermage: While Liberty is part of the identify of libertanism, from my experience, a lot of libertarinism is simply self interest. Me me me me me and the rest can fend for themselves. A world of Libertaranism would be a world ruled by the wealthy eltite.
Libertarianism also has a significant lack of real world success.
Did i mention you by name? "They" meaning Liberals. How's that for clarification? Relax.
Yeah. So what's the answer?
Have you ever heard of the Libertarian Party? Some people call us "Constitutionalists". We believe in self-determination, a hands off approach from government, low low low (or no) taxes, and a general sense of the government being just a necessary evil in only very select situations.
You should read up on us if you haven't already. America used to be a great and free country. Now we're a bunch of whiners in the public and a federal government that is more than willing to steal from one group to provide for another.
Libertarian Party Website
CATO.org - Libertarian Think Tank Organization (GREAT stuff here!!!!!)
Libertanism is, in my opinion, a philosophy of self interest only.
Libertarianism is a philosophy of limited government and freedom. Self interest may or may not be the motive for the philosophy, and certainly is with Randian and other egoistic forms of libertarianism. Others root their philosophy on natural law, others don't have a motive at all about it and don't judge self interest, and merely assume it as a given.
For other libertarians its about human rights that come from God.
The central idea in LIBERTarianism is LIBERTY, not the self.
They lump anyone right of Clinton a greedy, self serving republican. They can't fathom anything else Fisher.
I didn't even mention the words "republican" or "right of clinton", so how about you shut the fuck up?
@Fishermage: While Liberty is part of the identify of libertanism, from my experience, a lot of libertarinism is simply self interest. Me me me me me and the rest can fend for themselves. A world of Libertaranism would be a world ruled by the wealthy eltite.
Libertarianism also has a significant lack of real world success.
Did i mention you by name? "They" meaning Liberals. How's that for clarification? Relax.
Nice attempt at trying to dodge the bullet. Fishermage quoted me to respond to my comment, you quoted fisher and said "They lump anyone right of blablabla". As Fisher was responding to my comment, you were obviously refering to me.
Yeah. So what's the answer?
Have you ever heard of the Libertarian Party? Some people call us "Constitutionalists". We believe in self-determination, a hands off approach from government, low low low (or no) taxes, and a general sense of the government being just a necessary evil in only very select situations.
You should read up on us if you haven't already. America used to be a great and free country. Now we're a bunch of whiners in the public and a federal government that is more than willing to steal from one group to provide for another.
Libertarian Party Website
CATO.org - Libertarian Think Tank Organization (GREAT stuff here!!!!!)
Libertanism is, in my opinion, a philosophy of self interest only.
Libertarianism is a philosophy of limited government and freedom. Self interest may or may not be the motive for the philosophy, and certainly is with Randian and other egoistic forms of libertarianism. Others root their philosophy on natural law, others don't have a motive at all about it and don't judge self interest, and merely assume it as a given.
For other libertarians its about human rights that come from God.
The central idea in LIBERTarianism is LIBERTY, not the self.
They lump anyone right of Clinton a greedy, self serving republican. They can't fathom anything else Fisher.
I didn't even mention the words "republican" or "right of clinton", so how about you shut the fuck up?
@Fishermage: While Liberty is part of the identify of libertanism, from my experience, a lot of libertarinism is simply self interest. Me me me me me and the rest can fend for themselves. A world of Libertaranism would be a world ruled by the wealthy eltite.
Libertarianism also has a significant lack of real world success.
You are very young, and therefore your experience is necessarily limited. Perhaps you should think about actually studying the subject for longer, read a few more dozen books, and then start to assign motives. My experience, as a liberatarian for over twenty years, is completely different from yours.
Sure, the Randians and the Niestchean libertarians are selfish folks and that is what they are about -- but they make up a minority of libertarianism, in thought and in practice.
One should always try and go beyind one's own exxperience when judging others. One needs a broader view than what one has met in one's own life. To this end we study history, philosophy and a whole lot more.
Personally I don't find motives even matter for much. To me, it doesn't matter WHY you want to take away the people's liberty, only THAT you do. I assume the best about you -- that your wrong view on the proper place for government in a free society, comes from ignorance rather than evil. I doin't assume that you are a nasty person whose own insecurity leads him to need to tell everyone else what to do -- no I don't bother with that nonsense.
That is just what you are doing when you assign a motive to libertarianism as a philosophy. It's extremely bad form.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Yeah. So what's the answer?
Have you ever heard of the Libertarian Party? Some people call us "Constitutionalists". We believe in self-determination, a hands off approach from government, low low low (or no) taxes, and a general sense of the government being just a necessary evil in only very select situations.
You should read up on us if you haven't already. America used to be a great and free country. Now we're a bunch of whiners in the public and a federal government that is more than willing to steal from one group to provide for another.
Libertarian Party Website
CATO.org - Libertarian Think Tank Organization (GREAT stuff here!!!!!)
Libertanism is, in my opinion, a philosophy of self interest only.
Libertarianism is a philosophy of limited government and freedom. Self interest may or may not be the motive for the philosophy, and certainly is with Randian and other egoistic forms of libertarianism. Others root their philosophy on natural law, others don't have a motive at all about it and don't judge self interest, and merely assume it as a given.
For other libertarians its about human rights that come from God.
The central idea in LIBERTarianism is LIBERTY, not the self.
They lump anyone right of Clinton a greedy, self serving republican. They can't fathom anything else Fisher.
I didn't even mention the words "republican" or "right of clinton", so how about you shut the fuck up?
@Fishermage: While Liberty is part of the identify of libertanism, from my experience, a lot of libertarinism is simply self interest. Me me me me me and the rest can fend for themselves. A world of Libertaranism would be a world ruled by the wealthy eltite.
Libertarianism also has a significant lack of real world success.
Did i mention you by name? "They" meaning Liberals. How's that for clarification? Relax.
Nice attempt at trying to dodge the bullet. Fishermage quoted me to respond to my comment, you quoted fisher and said "They lump anyone right of blablabla". As Fisher was responding to my comment, you were obviously refering to me.
You didn't start this thread, I did. And ANOTHER poster in here got this quotation chain started, not you.
I'll say this again. RELAX.
Yeah. So what's the answer?
Have you ever heard of the Libertarian Party? Some people call us "Constitutionalists". We believe in self-determination, a hands off approach from government, low low low (or no) taxes, and a general sense of the government being just a necessary evil in only very select situations.
You should read up on us if you haven't already. America used to be a great and free country. Now we're a bunch of whiners in the public and a federal government that is more than willing to steal from one group to provide for another.
Libertarian Party Website
CATO.org - Libertarian Think Tank Organization (GREAT stuff here!!!!!)
Libertanism is, in my opinion, a philosophy of self interest only.
Libertarianism is a philosophy of limited government and freedom. Self interest may or may not be the motive for the philosophy, and certainly is with Randian and other egoistic forms of libertarianism. Others root their philosophy on natural law, others don't have a motive at all about it and don't judge self interest, and merely assume it as a given.
For other libertarians its about human rights that come from God.
The central idea in LIBERTarianism is LIBERTY, not the self.
They lump anyone right of Clinton a greedy, self serving republican. They can't fathom anything else Fisher.
I didn't even mention the words "republican" or "right of clinton", so how about you shut the fuck up?
@Fishermage: While Liberty is part of the identify of libertanism, from my experience, a lot of libertarinism is simply self interest. Me me me me me and the rest can fend for themselves. A world of Libertaranism would be a world ruled by the wealthy eltite.
Libertarianism also has a significant lack of real world success.
Did i mention you by name? "They" meaning Liberals. How's that for clarification? Relax.
Nice attempt at trying to dodge the bullet. Fishermage quoted me to respond to my comment, you quoted fisher and said "They lump anyone right of blablabla". As Fisher was responding to my comment, you were obviously refering to me.
You didn't start this thread, I did. And ANOTHER poster in here got this quotation chain started, not you.
I'll say this again. RELAX.
I never said anything about me starting this thread. Gnomexx suggested libertarianism and I gave my opinion on Libertarianism. Fisher quoted me and gave his opinion. Fisher was clearly responding to me, so when you said "they", you clearly meant me.
I suggest you stop trying to bullshit your way out of this..